123. Better Than Perfect with John & Nicole Sonmez

Step into the fray of modern romance with your guides, Rick, John, and Nicole, as we unravel the 'Better Than Perfect' dynamic that's reshaping the dating and relationship landscape. With John's extensive experience in men's coaching and Nicole's keen insights from relationship podcasting, we're lifting the veil on the bitter cycle that plagues the dating scene and the impact of social media on our love lives. We dissect the mutual disdain and skewed romantic expectations, aiming to arm you with the understanding necessary to navigate these complex emotional waters.

In the heart of our discussion lies the delicate interplay of femininity and masculinity, and the pressures that shape how we engage in relationships. The clock ticks for us all, but it's the nurturing environment and mutual respect that truly dictates the dance between partners. We challenge the transactional view of love and advocate for a recognition of the sheer value each person brings to the table. Stay tuned as we delve into the art of emotional validation and how vital it is to balance unconditional love with personal boundaries, drawing a line where respect must be maintained.

Wrap yourself in the warmth of authenticity as we share personal anecdotes and professional perspectives on vulnerability, trust, and the emotional support that fuels lasting partnerships. From the strength found in a man's stoic composure to the nurturing embrace of femininity, we explore how understanding and empathy are the cornerstones of a healthy relationship. Whether you're single, taken, or somewhere in between, this episode promises to equip you with the insights to foster more profound connections and face the battlefield of love with confidence.

Connect with John Sonmez and Nicole HERE!

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:09

What's up, warriors? Welcome back to the Battlefield of the Mind. I'm Rick, the creator of the Warriors Way Mindset, and now it's time to be better than perfect. I'm here with John and Nicole and I'm excited to do some relationship talk today. So feel free to introduce yourself, you two. I'm excited to see for my people. They need to know you.

Speaker 2: 0:29

I'm John, this is Nicole, and we created a podcast called Better Than Perfect, really to discuss relationships, because we found that we had a relationship that was a lot better than most people have, and we've both been in relationships before, and we kind of wanted to share that with people and help them to achieve that as well, based on what we've learned, especially around you know traditional values and roles and relationships and how that is so important for that dynamic. So we created the podcast. We do weekly podcasts there. My background is I've been a men's coach for 10 years or so. I run a company called Bulldog Mindset and so I've been very involved in dating and relationship stuff.

Speaker 3: 1:18

I had a dating podcast. Actually when I met John it was just something for fun, I wasn't promoting it. And when we went on a date I was just going to get some good content for the podcast. And then here we are. So you know I've always been interested in love and relationships and dating, so it's like your dating podcast worked.

Speaker 1: 1:41

You're like here's what you do on a relationship to nail like a good guy, this is how you get a good one down. And then you're like see it worked. Like this is how you do it. My show's legit, which is funny. Did you stop doing the show after it worked?

Speaker 3: 1:53

I did actually. That's really funny, that's the irony is like we figured it out, so now I quit yeah, well now then we were like you know, we gotta get do something together now, because he, you know, did the relationship stuff. I did my relationships up. I'm like we need to come together. So we finally kicked it off.

Speaker 1: 2:09

Yeah oh yeah, what do you think the biggest issue is today? Because you guys are plugged into current like one of the most common things I see with my guys is that, like the dating world's a mess right now and like you guys are helping people try to like navigate this really interesting terrain. How do you guys try and help people like go like hey, here's some obvious pitfalls to watch out for or not fall in yeah that's tough because I feel like there's so many.

Speaker 3: 2:36

I feel like the main thing that's keeping people just at odds with each other is that they both really don't like each other. Men are so upset at women that they hate all women, and then women are so upset at men that they hate all men, and so they're like constantly repelling each other and there's so many like different intricate things to that, but I think the overall you know feelings that they have. They hear bad stories about each other and then now they're like, oh, that's going to happen, so they're like pushing them away already. I would say that.

Speaker 1: 3:13

You're not wrong. I think right now, 30% of guys are just not playing, they're like I'm not even trying to date, and I think it's around 20% of women are like I'm not playing anymore, we're done.

Speaker 2: 3:23

Yeah, and the polarization is definitely there and it's not without merit, though I want to probably point in another piece of this what do you think the impact on this polarization is from social media is that you have almost like the Prato's law coming into effect in the extremity where you have now, with social media, with dating apps, with the availability of so many people and so many things to look at, that you're sort of getting this division that's happening and it's kind of always existed, but it's becoming more stratified, where you have this top 10 of men, right, what people call chads on the internet or whatever, and uh, and these guys are the guys that end up having a lot of success on dating apps, have a lot of success on social media, right, lots of of women to choose from. However, what happens is that those guys, since they have so much options and choice, they don't want to commit and why would they want to especially to a lot of feminist women that really don't have to offer them very much at all, and so what's happening is, I think, women are going on dating apps, they're dating these guys, these guys are using them, and then they don't want to talk to them again, and women are setting their standards kind of high. Going on dating apps, they're dating these guys, these guys are, you know, using them, and then they don't want to talk to him again, and women are setting their standards kind of high at that level. That's the guys that they want. They can't get those guys.

Speaker 2: 5:02

They the other guys that are in the kind of bottom 90% are bitter, they're angry, they hate women, they're, they're frustrated, you know, and so they spew out their toxicity on social media and whatnot, which polarizes women further against men, like, oh, this is how men are, like you know, they get bad experience with the, with the kind of the top guys. They get worse experience if they even do give a nice guy a chance, because then you know he's just so bitter and full of rage that and he's been told all this stuff of how he should act as a man and you know he's essentially becoming and trying to be an asshole. And so I think that that's kind of what's happening is with social media is just magnifying this to a massive degree and everyone's getting frustrated. Women are frustrated because they're like you know, most women are not going on dating apps looking to score because they're looking to get into a relationship, but they end up. That ends up what's happening?

Speaker 2: 5:53

Because these guys that they're going for which they're going based on, you know, on pictures are not looking for relationship, because why would they? They got so much availability. And then, on the other hand, men are frustrated, I mean, because majority of men are, women don't even know they exist at all, they can't even get any, any dates that you know, and and so I think that's. We're just seeing that magnified so much with social media.

Speaker 1: 6:18

So we got so many things. First off, being Chad's seems pretty awesome, so like, but you're not wrong. You see, it's even probably I'd say 10% is probably generous. The all these ladies now are thinking they're supposed to get the top like 1%. They're just supposed to get that.

Speaker 1: 6:41

And so, like these guys, when it comes down to the concept of a high value, man has become really superficial, and this is where a lot of ladies are going. Well, he's six feet tall, or he's got six figures, or he's got a six pack, and so he must be a good man. You're like which one of those is a value Like? No, those are all superficial.

Speaker 1: 6:56

And so these guys who are bringing almost nothing to the table, like relationship wise, now have this carrot dangling in front of them that you can be with the tall guy who's not even a good fighter, he's just tall. And then you got him. He's got money, and then he's got some sort of like he's in shape or whatever, and that means he's going to be a loyal, kind, generous, good man. It's like these measurements aren't even in the same game and yet those guys are getting free samples all day, every day. You're not wrong. Why would they commit If you girls don't have value in yourself beyond something superficial, why would a guy commit to you when you're like I give it up because of the potential of you giving me your resources? But they're not measuring values, they're measuring superficial value.

Speaker 3: 7:47

Right.

Speaker 3: 7:47

I think it comes from an insecurity place in them. Men can do this too, where they're like oh, I just need the hottest woman on my arm so I look good. I think when women value that stuff more, they're looking at it as like oh, if I'm seen with this guy, it'll bring up how I look. Because they're so insecure. Because I've had plenty of conversations with my own friends being like you're the Lamborghini, like you're, you're going out with these guys that, like aren't even very quality guys but you're attached to them. Like why and it's normally from their own insecurity Like they need the approval from this person and they are striving for it. And I'm like you. You need to have to know your worth. But at the same time, women who are like I need a six foot guy and he makes a lot of money and you know he has a six pack, I'm like okay, I think it's fine to want those things, but what do you like?

Speaker 3: 8:47

How do you work on yourself to be a value? Like, are you in the gym all the time? Are you like providing some value to this man where, if he's working and making six figures? Like are you at home taking care of everything else? Or if you know you guys want to do the 50 50, are you also like working on your business or whatever you want? Like are you bringing the same energy? Like, if he's like, oh, you need to get a boob job because I want big boobs and you want him to be six foot tall, you have to realize that if you want all these superficial things, he might want the same things and you can't expect him not to.

Speaker 3: 9:22

So that's why normally you know like when people are stuck in that sort of insecure place, you have to be like at the end of the day we're all going to get old and gray and wrinkly. Like you want a person that you love to be with. Like the abs are going to go, he could lose his job. You know he's probably always going to be six foot, unless something crazy happens, but you never know that either. So it's like you have to like value people in general for more than the physical, the superficial. But a lot of insecure people are so stuck on the physical and the height and whatever. Even the money part is still like a superficial can change. It's not permanent. But who somebody is is what is permanent and everybody can work on their mindset or things like that too. So I think that that's where a lot of that stems from. Personally is permanent and everybody can work on their mindset or things like that too. So you know, I think that that's where a lot of that stems from, personally.

Speaker 1: 10:19

Well, in order to have the value part that you said, like to fight these insecurities, and they say, no, you're worth, you're the Lamborghini, which I can't wait to understand what that means. You're the Lamborghini somehow. Well, if women are the Lamborghini and they bring something to the relationship, what do you think the healthy version of what a Lamborghini woman would be bringing to a relationship? For women to practice to be their best them?

Speaker 3: 10:54

is accepting who you are and forgiving yourself for, like, any mistakes that you've made and realizing that you know, even if you're not perfect, you're still valuable. You know, obviously you do still have to work on yourself. I'm not telling somebody who's like you know, a horrible person or doing horrible things, like you're the Lamborghini, like act the way that you are. But it's like if you're a kind person and you put that out into the world, you will eventually get that back. And if you're investing all of your time in people who aren't seeing that, then it's a waste of your time. Like if you're chasing men who, like don't give you the time of day, then you're not realizing your worth.

Speaker 3: 11:35

Like I would never pursue somebody in any way friendship, relationship, whatever, obviously no relationship, because I got this handsome man right here. But you know that is not investing in me the way that I'm investing in them. And that's not to say that, like if something happens and they're like sick or whatever. But you know, if a guy is not texting you for like a week or is just like I'll see you when I see you, and a woman's still like hey, what are you doing? Like don't you want to see me? Like sending them pictures and being like don't I look cute today? Like that's so such desperate energy, and like that person is obviously not invested in you. And so you have to realize your worth and what you are. And you know, I feel like telling somebody that they're a Lamborghini. You know, you realize, okay, like you know you're, you're valuable, people want you, but you're not going to be like hey, like do you want a free Lamborghini? No, like people have to work for the Lamborghini. Like yeah.

Speaker 3: 12:34

I mean they have to work for every car. But it's like you know you have to realize that your uniqueness and what you bring which should be, you know, your like what you bring to the world that benefits everyone around you and only go after the people who realize that, rather than just trying to get with any man. Cause I feel like, as women, especially like some of the women who get so desperate they're getting older, they don't have a lot of options and so they're just like throwing themselves at anybody and anyone who will take them, and it's like I get that I get as a woman, like men value youth. And so you're like you start to panic a little bit, you know you're like, oh shoot, I'm in my thirties, I've never been married, I want to be married. And then you know, now here you are, like I just want any guy at this point.

Speaker 3: 13:27

But the thing is you don't like it's better to be alone than to be with somebody that you don't really want to be with. And I think it's hard for women to realize that for many reasons, because a lot of them want kids and things like that. So it's like I mean you can have kids these days by yourself. It's not ideal, but you know, if that's like a huge thing and you haven't found somebody, in my opinion I think you should do that on your own, rather than try to find somebody by the time you're 35, just so you can have a kid, cause that's like. That's a whole, another level of your. You're going to do things to a child's life, another human being's life, that you know you can't take back. So it's, it's complicated because you know women do have high standards.

Speaker 1: 14:11

It doesn't sound like very Lamborghini behavior at that point. Right, yeah, I agree with you, and so look at the pieces here for these girls here. So you got accepting who you are, the accountability of what you've done in your past, working on you and finding your authenticity, element of it. I see those. But then I haven't heard anything. That's for the guy so to say, like, what do you bring to the relationship? It's like, well, she's working on herself and I'm like, well, what does that do for the relationship?

Speaker 2: 14:40

Well, I think there's. I have an interesting take on this, so I did. I did a video on this a little while back, because I think the question of asking what do women bring to the table, I think it's the wrong question. Because it's the wrong way of thinking, it's a masculine way of thinking. Right, because we think transactionally, we think in terms of the future and planning and logical, analytical, evaluating values, and I think what it comes down to is this realization that, look, a woman doesn't need to bring anything quote to the table, because femininity in itself is valuable. Right, masculinity has to be created. Men have to become masculine, they have to develop their masculinity. Femininity is something that women are born with and that has a value itself. Now, as far as like equal values and all this stuff, again, it's the wrong way of thinking.

Speaker 2: 15:30

One way I think of it is a man. A woman is a reflection of the man that she's with to a large degree, and so I use the analogy of a man being the gardener and a woman being the plot of land or the soil that he gardens. And how a man acts and treats a woman, how he conducts himself in the relationship, how he leads, really determines what crops grow, how you know, do you get nagweed or do you get, you know, something better than that. So it's almost like the way that I look at that kind of what does a woman bring to the table is, I mean, obviously, you know, if the man is providing, doing his masculine role, she should be interfeminine. But it's almost to a degree not to say that women can't specifically try to be more feminine or be in their feminine, but a masculine man acting in his masculine, providing a safe emotional and physical space for a woman, allows her to yield into her feminine. It causes her to become feminine, because the most masculinized women, given a masculine man, not the traditional macho masculine, but a masculine man that has both a backbone but is what I would call a gentleman, he is gentle and kind and gives her emotional safety, will bring out the feminine in the woman and then that's the value that she provides.

Speaker 2: 16:52

But it's sort of, I think, disingenuous to ask up front well, what do you provide as a woman? Well, I don't know, because she's the garden. She doesn't know what she's going to provide until she sees what's planted in her garden. So I think that's the way that I think of it and, I think, a lot of men. The reason why they have so much trouble with women is because they're not, they don't, they're not taking ownership right, they're not saying I am the one who is responsible for the relationship, that a woman is a reflection of the man. You know. I don't. I don't look for a woman. You know. Obviously you need to look for a woman that has some, some value, some character attributes that that you find good, you know is a good match for you. But then really how she ends up becoming and showing up in the relationship mostly is on you as a man. I do believe that's true.

Speaker 3: 17:42

I mean, I think too, because when I was dating before I met John, like guys would be like, what do you bring to the table, sort of thing, and I would just be like, well, you obviously don't know, and that might sound ridiculous, but it's like John, from the very beginning, realized what I brought to his life just by being who I am. I do a lot of personal development myself, though, so I know not all women do, but like the attributes that I had he could see in me and so he never asked me like well, besides how he just explained that he doesn't think that that's the right thing to ask, but he never asked me that because he always knew that. And so I think as a man, like if you have to ask, then that woman probably isn't going to bring anything to your table, like well, again, if she's a Lamborghini, she should know her worth.

Speaker 1: 18:31

And so if you ask how much is your worth? And she's like you should just know, and you're like, well, this is confusing. So, um, all right, I want to go with you guys, you're like that's not the right question for a guy who's going out there. It was not going in, what do you bring? What's the right question then?

Speaker 2: 18:47

For evaluating like a woman.

Speaker 1: 18:49

Yeah, like like like if she's the Lamborghini. How do I know Like she's not just she's not wearing a Lamborghini outfit, but she's not a Lamborghini? How do I? How do I ask the right question?

Speaker 3: 19:00

I think it's how she treats you, because people, especially when you're first dating, say a lot of stuff and they don't always back it up.

Speaker 3: 19:08

So I think it takes time, you know, to find out how a person is, but I think it's more beneficial to actually go on plenty of dates with this person, have conversations and see that their words match their actions, cause I feel like that's the only way that you can really know for certain, because you know, like I said, a lot of people men and women can say all the right things and then end up switching it up on you.

Speaker 3: 19:34

So I think, taking the time to really get to know the person, that you'll see that they're the Lamborghini. They don't have to be like I'm the Lamborghini.

Speaker 2: 19:42

You'll see how valuable that they are and I think the thing I always tell guys is that there's two things that are most important in a woman. One is that she has a high desire for you, and number two is that she treats you like a king. Because if you have both of those things, then you're going to be good. Because that's what's going to matter in five years and 10 years from now is that she has high desire for you and she treats you like a king If she has those attributes. If she doesn't, if she doesn't have a high desire for you, you're in trouble, like just, it's not going to be good, right.

Speaker 1: 20:15

Well, the desire one is easier, the treat like a King one, though I'd need more clarity Like how does a woman treat a man like a King?

Speaker 2: 20:23

She has to look up to a man. She has to, uh, look up to him. She has to have a level of respect for him. She has to. You know, again, a lot of women today are feminists, right. But you're dating a woman, you're in your masculine, you're taking care of her, you're opening doors, you're, you know, financially, provide like you're, you're doing the things as a man should do. She should be yielding to that and exposing her feminine side and her vulnerability. If she's not doing that, and that is really what ends up becoming treating you like a king, because she's treating you like the person who she looks up to. That is an authority, that is someone that she's going to respect and value as a leader. If she's not submitting to your leadership, then things are not going to go well.

Speaker 2: 21:13

And it's kind of interesting too, because when you think about it, it's funny like women and men value themselves differently than each other. So a woman wants to be loved for exactly who she is. She doesn't want it. That's why, like when you ask, what does a woman bring to the table? It's not that women don't want to answer that, it just it makes them feel icky when they hear that. Because if a woman has to justify why she's valuable, and it's because she provides these things or she does these things she doesn't feel love for exactly who she is. That's the deepest yearning, I would say, of a woman is to be loved for no matter what. If she's old, if she's wrinkled, if she you know, whatever you know, whatever you know, even if she has a bad attitude some days or she's in a mood, she wants to feel love for exactly who she is and accepted, whereas a man if you, a man doesn't really want to feel love for exactly who he is.

Speaker 2: 22:04

A lot of men say that they do. A lot of guys complain oh, it's not fair. You know, women will never love. But a man wants to be valued for his accomplishments. For what? For who he, for what he's done. Right, if you want to compliment a man, you tell him you know you, I, I love your, your podcast, or your, your business, or you know you're, you're, you're, you're so buff, like you know. How do you, you know you're such a good fight like you, you'll, you'll compliment him on his skills, you'll compliment on his accomplishments, right?

Speaker 2: 22:33

But if you just told a man I just love you, brother, for who you are. It's valued, but it's not as valued. You know what I'm saying? Like I want something more. Like why do you value me right? Like what is valuable about me, whereas a woman just wants to be loved for exactly who she is. So I think that plays very heavily in this dynamic. So I think that plays very heavily in this dynamic and understanding that is so critical, because as a man, that's what you have to really provide to a woman, and so you have to see that unique value in her that is her, who she is, her soul essentially. And a woman has to see the unique value in you as a man, in who you are as a man, what you've accomplished, what you've done, what you can do, you know your abilities, because that's how she values and respects you and how you feel valued as a man.

Speaker 1: 24:14

Yeah, I hear you on this one, but there's a there's obviously a bunch of loopholes that goof this whole thing up today, because the idea behind it is the answer, but that's not the solution because there's too many gaps to it, and so you see people trying to pursue this. Well, even for like lover, for who she is, well, love you for who you are means there's nothing to do to get better, because I already am good. Love me for who I am. And so, nicole, you're like I'm doing a lot of personal development. Well, there has to be a part of you who's like I can be better for me, not just love me because and so now there's an accountability to yourself to go love me for who I am, but also I'm going to love me for what I can be for myself, and that's also an evolution that you two have to be able. Hey, we're growing together. Well, I love you for the effort you put into growth and I love you for the uh, the nurture that you bring to our table. And I love you for your way that you respect me, and I love you for the way you show appreciation, the way that you do it, and those are the things where, like, the value is coming in from, like certain behaviors. And so, john, you're not wrong.

Speaker 1: 25:20

I think women do enjoy being validated through reassurance to go like, baby, you're the best and I could, I could never imagine myself with anyone else. You're the greatest in the world. And she's like, yes, the fuck I am. Like. That feels good. But if, john, you and I were hanging out and you like did something cool and I was like, bro, man, you're you're, I'll be with you forever, nothing would ever make me leave you. You're man, you're my dude. Like forever, I'm your guy and you're going to be like can we just go back to like the thing we just kicked ass on, please? You're making me feel weird.

Speaker 1: 25:53

And so reassurance versus appreciation is definitely a different thing for men and women. But love me for who I am is a. It's a slippery slope because it could get goofed up very easily for going. I don't need to grow, you need to change for me, and I think that's where I watched the concept goofed up the most with women is you should love me for for who I am. But that means I don't have to be different. The world is wrong, I'm right, and that means everyone else needs to change for me, because you should love me for who I am, instead of accountability, authenticity or in this place. With that system it removes empathy for women. They don't have to be empathetic.

Speaker 3: 26:33

Yeah, it's easy for us to say, because you know I work on myself. But I know what you're saying is also true. There's plenty of women who are like love me for me and they don't plan to change not ever. And guys too can do this at times. They don't plan to change not ever, and guys too can do this at times.

Speaker 3: 26:50

But I do think, regardless, men or women, everybody needs to take accountability. Everybody should be working on themselves, and so I totally agree with you and I agree that there are a lot of women that are like you know, love me for me, and they have things that they don't plan to work on, that they should work on, and then, as a man, you can't be like hey, can you like not nag me all the time, you know, cause that's not going to work. So, like, I do think women need to take accountability. I think, like when they're single, they tend to act like they have worked on themselves, and I'm not saying that they haven't, but like even with John and I, before I met him, I was like I've done a lot of work, like I'm in a really good place, and John said the same thing, and then we got together and all this other stuff came up.

Speaker 3: 27:31

We were like what we thought we were pretty close to holiness over here before we came together and then now we got more stuff to work on, but, like with our daughter, you know, I'm teaching her. I'm like, you know, because she's getting to be a teenager. There's a lot of things she's going through and she's like when will it end, you know, and like I have to keep working on stuff and like. A lot of people look at it that way, but I think we look at it as like it's a good thing, like there's always something to work on, there's like always more peace that you can have in your life. And I think if people view like personal development and like self-improvement in that way, then they'll be excited to like overcome this obstacle rather than like, uh, do I have to stop nagging him? Do I have to like work on being a better person? It's like, yeah, like it'll make you happier. They don't realize that.

Speaker 2: 28:20

Well, and I think you know we're we're reading a book Uh, it's, it's highly religious, but it's a good book called Love and Respect. And you know, women want to be unconditionally loved. Men want to be unconditionally respected, right? And so I think unconditionally loved means that the love is not based on performance. Unconditionally respected means the respect is not based on performance as well. But I think that that doesn't mean that, as a man, you're not stepping up and leading and correcting when correction needs to be applied as well, right, because there are some times, as a man, as a leader at the relationship, you need to say hey, there's something that's not quite right here, we need to fix this. But it becomes we need to fix this and I'll help you, as opposed to hey, hey, you're unlovable until you fix this. So this is what's wrong with you, because women never respond to criticism.

Speaker 1: 29:15

They respond to edification and Well, she shouldn't have to change. John, Love her for who she is. If you're the leader, you have to do all of it. Love her for who she is.

Speaker 2: 29:32

Well, I would say, though, that the thing about that is that you could still love a person for who they are, but who they are. I've had this discussion before where, in a previous relationship, where it's like I love me for who I am, but it's like, well, okay, who you are is not how you act, right, so, like, being mean is not who you are, I love you for who you are, but being mean is not a quality of you. So it's something you're choosing to do and I don't love that, right, and so that's the thing about it is, it doesn't mean that you're just accepting any kind of behavior, that you're not having boundaries, that you're tolerating disrespect. It means that, even if someone is failing, is messing up, you're still loving them. Their love, your love, is not conditional on them being perfect, right?

Speaker 2: 30:13

A lot of women feel they have to be perfect in order to be loved. A lot of people feel that, and they become people pleasers because of that. So so I think, as a man, as a leader, you're setting the example. You're working on yourself. You're setting. You know, like, in our house, I have a reading time that we do after dinner. Everyone reads personal development books for 20 minutes Like these are things that, like, I'm setting by example.

Speaker 2: 30:35

I'm making sure that we're all growing and learning together and, you know, if there are problems, I'm taking the responsibility as the man, the leader of the relationship, to figure out what is this problem and how can we fix this problem, how can we work on this thing together. And there's things that I have to work on, there's things that Nicole has to work on, but you know, it's it's really my responsibility to set the direction for those things. But my love is unconditional on those things, right? If Nicole messes up one day, I don't say well, you know, I don't, I don't love you anymore. I treat her with just as much love as I would have, but I might have something to say about it hey, this wasn't cool or whatever. This thing needs to change, which is not a problem.

Speaker 3: 31:16

I would add one more thing actually to this because I think it's important. So I think that there's not really a problem with the love me for who I am If you take the time to date before you get married, before you seriously commit, and you kind of get a feeling you won't know 100%. I understand that. But if you kind of get a feeling for who somebody is, I feel like it's easier to love them for who they are. Don't commit if you don't love the person for who they are.

Speaker 3: 31:45

Before, when I dated people, little things would like bother me and I was like, oh, I'm just being too picky. But you know, with John when he came along, there was genuinely nothing that bothered me about him and he still leaves contact lenses everywhere and with anyone else I'd be like this like really aggravates me. Like with anyone else I dated, but with him it wasn't the case. I just loved him entirely for who he is and I've said this on our podcast and I'll say it again and expose myself that he's the first person I think in my whole life I've loved for who he actually is. So it's easy for us to say you know, like, love me. You know to say you know, like love me, you know for who I am and you know no matter what and I get that.

Speaker 3: 32:33

Some people maybe either like didn't really see that their wife or their husband had these things going on or they didn't have strong enough boundaries to prevent some of these things from happening, and so now it is hard for them to be like love them for who they are. They're like treating me poorly, like I understand that. But at the same time, if you really take the time to get to know who you're with and you, then you realize, okay, I do love this person for who. Their good days, their bad days, all those things when you get married and you have the bad days, like john said, you don't come at it as like you know I don't love you anymore. You come at it as like hey, like this wasn't cool. I love you, but you know we need to work on this, we need to figure this out, sort of thing.

Speaker 1: 33:14

Well, I mean, this is where, like the term unconditional love has been a problem. We've done trainings on this to big salad to me. I have a hard time with unconditional love because I don't know what that is. Um, I don't know what that is. I haven't seen a love in my life, at least that wasn't conditional. Because if I decide I want other girlfriends, my wife won't like that. That's a condition that will end this. You know, there are certain things that if I decide I want to start punching her and the girls in the face, well, that's a condition that will end this relationship. That's not. That's a condition Like there are conditions and so to say there are no conditions, meaning like the accountability element has almost no accountability.

Speaker 1: 34:03

I'm like, well, there's no conditions, that I have non-negotiables, you know. And so if our relationship becomes like no effort relationship and we're going an extended amount of time, we're like babe, come and meet me, and she's like, no, I'm going to go do anything but be with you, Well, that becomes conditional. And so I struggle with the non, the unconditional element. People will say God is an unconditional love. I'm like not Old Testament God, he was highly conditional.

Speaker 1: 34:31

I'm like, which God are you talking about? He was wiping out cities and armies and stuff. There's conditions. He let Goliath get hit in the face and his head cut off. That's a condition. So I'm like, well, I don't know what you mean.

Speaker 2: 34:45

Well, okay, I could speak to that a little bit. So I think that the ideal, right, if we're looking at the real human ideal, it's to have unconditional love for everyone. Right, that doesn't mean accepting every behavior or being in every relationship, being in every relationship. But let's take your example of you know of some boundary that you cross in a relationship which would end the relationship for you or for your wife, right, that doesn't mean that that has to end in an unloving way. It doesn't mean that you don't love that person or that you don't show them love. So I think there's that element to it in the sense that a lot of people and I think one of the hardest things for men to do is to have a discussion or have a problem and be open, which means to be loving while you're, maybe, even if you're having an argument or discussion, to still remain loving. But I think that's kind of the ideal, that unconditional love, of just having that in general, of being that person, and the relationship is a good practice ground for that. But I'd also say that when we say unconditional love, it also is I trust that there's nothing she's going to do, that she wouldn't do something that would be a gross violation of my boundaries that she may make some mistakes in life, she may do some things, that, no matter what things that she does, I trust that I'm going to love her, no matter what. Now you could say maybe that's not the pure unconditional love, and I guess, you know, we could just semantically, you know, say maybe that's not the pure unconditional love and I guess we could semantically say, yeah, maybe that's not if we're looking at it from that perspective.

Speaker 2: 36:33

But I think that the reason why I like the word unconditional love and the reason why I think it is valuable is because it implies the deepest level of trust that you can have in a person. And I feel like if you don't have that in a relationship, if you don't apply that deepest level of trust, then you're not all in, you're not 100%. It's the same reason I get a lot of flack like I'm against prenuptial agreements. Right, we didn't do a prenup, we didn't even talk about it. I didn't want to have that discussion at all, even though I have been divorced and I lost half my shit and it was not a pleasant experience because I wouldn't have entered this relationship and this marriage without 100%. I want to be 100% all in. There's no safety net. I trust Nicole enough that I'm willing to pledge and take whatever risks that entails, and so if I'm willing to do that, I'm willing to unconditionally love. Those things are tied together.

Speaker 1: 37:30

But I get where you're coming from. Those are lovely ideas, especially the unconditional love for everybody. With that concept itself it turns into more of a dynamic. So if I say I love warlords in Africa unconditionally until they're attacking your family and then you unconditionally love them, I'm like slow down. The relationship dynamics start to change dramatically with more connection to your actual life. And so when you have dynamics in your life it changes the rules dramatically. For me feeling sad for kids with no water in another country. That makes me feel sad. I love them for that. I want them to be better, but like you're not there giving them water. So I mean how much is this conditions? Like you're not showing up. So we say these things, but how much do we really connect to it? Now, that woman next to you, I believe you, but you love everyone in the world. I'm like I don't know about that one.

Speaker 1: 38:23

Cause we're putting a little time and effort into those people. That's the idea. It's easy. Now the part where you're talking about the trust element. That's the issue. You work with men. How many guys have gone? I've unconditionally trusted her, I've given her everything and now women are at a 70% filing divorce rate and they're highly rewarded for divorcing a man. Like your Saudi acons and other psychologists that are looking at Western marriage and going. This is a terrible business deal for men. I'm not MGTOW or Red Pill, but they're like if this was a business deal, it would be a terrible business deal. I take all liability, all risk and all contingencies that make her want to go. She's incentivized to leave.

Speaker 2: 39:09

Here's what I would say about that, though, because the thing is, you coach guys. I've been coaching guys for a long time. Almost in every case I've heard the sad stories. I've heard the guy totally trusting the woman being shocked completely. Suddenly she's trying to take him for everything, doesn't even want him to see the kids. Like what? What happened to this woman? I'm married. I put all my faith and trust into. I worked hard, I did all the right things. In almost all those cases, the guy was trying to do the right thing, but the thing that he failed to do was to provide her emotional safety and that unconditional love or even if we don't call it unconditional love he did not love her. He loved her in the way that he thought was valuable, not the way that she thought was valuable, because women don't leave relationships and get divorces unless their emotional needs aren't being met. Men, we know, will cheat even in a good relationship.

Speaker 1: 40:09

That's just the statistics, right, but women are not Women aren't cheating more than men these days. Numerically now, Women are cheating at a higher rate than men. They just don't call it cheating. They call it my needs weren't met and so it's okay for me to do it.

Speaker 2: 40:24

Well, I get what you're saying, but I think that in those cases, what happens the way that women cheat, is they emotionally cheat. They start an emotional connection with the man and then they end up leaving, but a woman that is being taken care of by a man. And this is where that masculine-feminine dynamic comes in. Where and this is where that masculine feminine dynamic comes in right If a man is truly leading a woman, if she truly looks up to him, if he's truly protecting, providing financially, emotionally, right that's the part that most men miss Then that woman is not going to be looking elsewhere. Women typically just want one man and they want one love. You know, again, maybe some women.

Speaker 2: 41:11

That's not the case, but I think a lot of what's going on today in terms of the divorces. Again, it doesn't mean that women are blameless in this, but I put the responsibility on the shoulders of men, because men are supposed to be the leaders. They're supposed to be the leaders of the relationship. They're letting women take charge. They're letting women take responsibility for the relationship instead of them taking responsibility. They're not the ones that are guiding and leading women and so, even though women are initiating most of the divorces, the thing is a lot of men. They'll stay in an unhappy marriage where their needs aren't being met because they can just soldier through it.

Speaker 2: 41:48

Women, after some period of time when their emotional needs aren't being met, when they don't feel like a man really understands them and loves them and appreciates them and gives them the space to be feminine, she's not going to stay around. She's going to go and look for that ideal romance that she's been looking for. But the problem is that men today don't know how to stand up and be men. They don't want to take accountability and responsibility. The same men that are complaining about the high divorce rate when I say, hey, you should pay for a woman's dinner, they say 50-50. This is ridiculous. She needs to carry her own. These same guys that are complaining that they can't find a traditional women and women are feminists are also complaining about having to pay uh you know for a woman's dinner have you?

Speaker 1: 42:33

have you really seen that guys don't want to more than they just don't know how to? They don't want to what? Because you said guys don't want to be the emotional support. They don't want to do it and I don't know how I would probably go.

Speaker 1: 42:44

They don't know how. Because, like I, I mean whenever I start a men's group or a women's group, um, I removed blame throwing out of the men's course because guys come in shame stacking, not blame throwing, and, like most of the guys, come in like what did I fucking do wrong man? Like how did I screw this? Like I did everything I knew. Like what did I go? How can I not make her happy? What am I doing? Like that's how guys come in Now girls, they come in going he's bad, he didn't do this, my guy's the worst, he's that. And they complain. And so blame throwing is the first two weeks of please, it's about your stuff, not everyone else did it to you and it's one of those things where women blame and men shame was one of the patterns that I would see very quickly, but it's very rare I see a guy go. I don't want to get better for her. They're always going. What did I do wrong, dude? I did everything. I thought like I, I thought I did it, I I worked and I made the money and then I made sure the kids were safe and I came home and I would do the stuff, the chores that she said and I did everything I thought I didn't know. And so very rarely have I ever seen the guys come in going like I don't want to do better. We're built for progress and so I think it's. They just didn't know how. There was no training or no teacher for that.

Speaker 1: 43:56

But whenever I show these guys the same thing, I'm not disagreeing with the emotional element of it You're not incorrect. But all of us have to suppress our hearts, and most of it is because we were taught by women to suppress our hearts, which is ironic, because how many times are we rejected as a young man for opening our heart? And then we're like well, I have to be the bad boy or the tough guy or I have to be a no cry and I have to do these things in order to not be rejected. And yet when you get with a girl, you need to be able to be empathetically open to her emotional needs. When mine have been shamed and shunned and judged and blamed and criticized and rejected and I've been ostracized and made fun of for having those emotional things, wouldn't? This isn't just a recipe for resentment? I have to validate all her emotions, but I don't deserve any.

Speaker 2: 44:46

Yeah, and I think you know the thing is about that is it's about being a man Like. That is being a man Like you know. A lot of men have to man up and realize that you don't get necessarily a shoulder to cry, and not in the same way that a woman does, right, and I think that's hard for a lot of men to swallow. But you're the leader, you're the authority. You know if, if we were going into battle, all right, and you're the general, you know, you're my general of the army, you're leading me into battle, and then you're like oh, I'm kind of scared, you have a breakdown, crying moment. I don't know if I can trust you to lead me into battle so much. You know what I mean. I I'm not. You know it's a different role.

Speaker 2: 45:26

The other thing about that, though, is that the way that men have exposed their vulnerability when they're growing up, when they're young men, wearing their heart on their sleeve, is a weak way. It's a weak vulnerability. It is not the strong way to be vulnerable, because vulnerability is not necessarily weakness, it is strength, but the difference between vulnerability being weakness and strength is how it's presented. If I present my vulnerability in a needy, self-deprecating fashion, it's weakness. But if I present my vulnerability and I don't care who sees my weakness, I'm not affected by it. I'm sharing with you and I don't need anything from you. I don't need you to validate me or accept me, but I'm just sharing this because I don't feel the need to defend or justify myself. Now that vulnerability becomes an immense strength and a connection. That and that's what women are really looking for. When they say I want a vulnerable man or emotionally available man, they don't mean a man that, like, tells, cries about everything and just whines and tells her all his feelings, about everything that upsets him, and you know he's scared and all these things.

Speaker 2: 46:42

As a man, you have to be stoic in the sense that you know. I think people confuse stoicism as being indifferent to pain or pleasure, but that's not what it is. It means that you have emotions, but those emotions do not guide your actions. And so when you can express your emotions and be vulnerable, but you still take the right actions, that's when a woman can have confidence in you. But if it seems like your emotional instability as a man would lead you to do irrational, unstable things, then women are going to look down on that and that's what's happened, you know.

Speaker 2: 47:15

That's why you know men, you're right, men don't understand this. They don't know this because their experience with being emotionally vulnerable as a young man is being rejected, being laughed at, being treated poorly. But it's because they're wearing their heart on their sleeve, because they were looking for something. They're like I want validation, I need acceptance, but as a mature man, as you become emotionally mature, then you can still be open, but you're not seeking anything, you're not being needy, you're you're. You're not requiring validation. You have your own internal validation.

Speaker 1: 47:45

Well, there's still. There's a degree of stoicism, but there's also you have to still have your humanity. And so, with empathy, I believe that humans deserve empathy, both sides. I think both people should have empathy. And, like you just said, well, he's supposed to shoulder, he's not supposed to show that. And I'm with you with the types of vulnerability. If I just ugly face cry because I can't find my sandwich, that's one thing. If I just ugly face cry because I can't find my sandwich, that's one thing. But if there's another thing where it's like even positive vulnerability, if I said, john, I'm so fucking proud of you, man, like, I'm so proud of you, man, I believe in you, you know, and I'm like I love you, bro, you're my fucking brother, I'm with you. Like that's me opening myself in a positive vulnerability. I'm not weak right now, I'm strong, in my way of saying I believe in you, I'm proud of you, that's my guy right there. Like that's still showing vulnerability because it's easy to be rejected, no different than if, like you know, nicole, you're like hey, john, I love you. And he's like whatever, like well, that would suck. Like immediately, don't talk to me. Like immediately, like yeah, yeah, don't talk to me. You're like what the heck? Like you showed vulnerability and showing love and then it was rejected immediately. That still it starts to count, and so that part is positive vulnerability.

Speaker 1: 48:56

But then also with our guys, when it came to the emotional cheating we noticed, I did a study where I I stopped at a hundred because it was the same answer every time. I asked these guys, when we mean, do your feelings matter, not your wellbeing? Your feelings? Like, yeah, of course, man, I'm a human and I'm like do you think your feelings matter to her? And it was. It was 97 out of a hundred.

Speaker 1: 49:19

But two of the relationships were in the first two weeks and so it was all honeymoon phase and they didn't make it. And then one of them, the guy, was in total denial and he was in an abusive relationship but couldn't see it and so they're divorced and so the three oddballs didn't work out at all. So I don't think there was empathy there. But all the guys said no, I don't think that my feelings matter to her well-being. Like, did the laundry get done? Or the shoes put in the right place? Did she pack a lunch? Like well, none of those are feelings, those are wellbeing. Well, none of those are feelings, those are well-being, and so like well, do you want your feelings to matter to her? And every guy was like yeah, I wish my feelings did matter to her.

Speaker 1: 49:52

And so there's a degree of empathy that's missing in those dynamics too. What do you think, nicole, I was going to?

Speaker 3: 49:58

say did they say like what feelings specifically?

Speaker 1: 50:07

Because I'm curious like, what feelings of theirs do they feel like women don't care for. With the guys, it's almost. And what it is is, it seems, very self-serving. For women these days, it's just what they can get for themselves. And remember, guys are loved for what they provide and women are loved for who they are. Well, they can just be whatever they want. But the guy has to like how did you say it? Guys have to build, the masculine has to build, it needs to be built. Guys have to do something and women just have to be something.

Speaker 1: 50:33

There's nothing wrong with this in a healthy version, but a very unhealthy version is just a take mentality. And so these guys are like well, that really hurts my feelings. And she's like so what? But validate my feelings. I'm like what are you talking about? So I have to sit here and listen to you vent and half of it is bitching about me.

Speaker 1: 50:50

But I can't go like well, that really hurts my feelings, that you said that. That's really upsetting. Like I can't believe that's the way you see me and that's how we interact. You see me like that. That's a bummer to me. She's like oh, stop being a bitch. Like damn, you said mean shit and then called me a bitch for not liking it Like.

Speaker 1: 51:07

This is the dynamic that we're in, wow, and a majority of the guys. This is where it is, where men don't know how to be emotionally vulnerable, but women don't know how to show empathy for a man in a respectful way Because you said, respect is important, which we can have a very fun conversation on that word, but like as far as like, empathy is a missing piece for women in today's society. I have three, three pillars for the ladies. You're right with accountability, you're right with authenticity, but this empathy piece is missing today and this is why I could praise you two for going like no, I could do it for him. I couldn't do it for any other guy, but I can do it for this one. I praise you for finding it.

Speaker 3: 51:48

I think too, when you talked about how guys are upset that they're not able, they're like not able to be vulnerable, and then they're with a woman and a woman can be vulnerable and they're like almost like resentful because of that. I actually had that dynamic in my family growing up, so I realized too that there probably is some things that these men are projecting onto these women, because I was doing that and then I had to realize, like okay, this person just didn't know any better, and I know for men that it's not going to be like that. But it makes me wonder if these men are projecting this resentment and these feelings onto these women and then the women are treated that way. And so then that way, when the guy is trying to be vulnerable, she's like why are you crying? You know, because, like when she was trying to be emotionally safe, he was like well, what, what do you want me to do? So it's like the.

Speaker 3: 52:44

It's the same kind of thing from the very beginning. It's like the. They're doing the same things to each other. Like the guy, you know he was rejected, so he has a resentment. So every time time she's vulnerable, he's almost upset that she can be that because he couldn't. So he's treating her a certain way, which is not good. And then the woman sees him being vulnerable and she's like I can't be vulnerable, so you can't be vulnerable. And then it's just this perpetual cycle of just everybody crapping on each other.

Speaker 1: 53:13

That's the main pattern right now. That's the main pattern that's happening is like this I don't know where we begin and I don't know what's supposed to happen. If the guy's trying to be a safe place, what women also have a responsibility to? How do you maintain a safe place? If he's protecting, providing and presiding? How do you do the maintenance for indoors then how do you keep the place clean and take care of stuff? Like he's doing all of this work, what do you do? And the just love me for who I am means there's no responsibility for her.

Speaker 2: 53:42

Well, what I've always told Nicole because she struggled with this, when we first got married and she quit her job and I was like, no, I'll take care of you, it's like she felt guilty. She was like I should be providing, I should be providing, I should be contributing, Right. And I said, I said I only want you to do one thing for me, Just one thing. It's not even cooking or cleaning, it's not that stuff. I could hire somebody, it's not even that. Okay, I just want you to support me. I want you to be the rocket fuel in my rocket.

Speaker 2: 54:10

And I said I could take on all this emotional stuff. That is hard for you. It's easy for me. I mean, it's not that I don't struggle at all, but I could take on all that stuff. Let me take all this stress out of your life. I'll take care of the bills, I'll take care of you. Know, whatever is going on. Like you can dump your emotional stuff on me, I can handle all that stuff, All because that's how I'm better equipped. And so because I want to free you up to just be my support, so that you can lift me up, so that we can go to the moon together, because that's how this works is because I'm the rocket and you're the rocket fuel. Like, yeah, on my own I can do really good, but if I have you at my side, if I have you fueling me up, fueling me up emotionally, with my confidence sexually, all of those things that are going to light me up as a man, I can go and conquer the world. So that's all I need, you know, from a woman is to support right.

Speaker 2: 55:02

And so I think a lot of the confusion comes down to also, you know, not understanding what emotional validation is for men. I think men don't really get it because and I didn't get this for a long, long time is because, like Nicole was saying, that you know by the time that a man is is trying to get empathy, he usually doesn't see much from a woman because he has mistreated her so badly emotionally that he doesn't even realize it that she's just like I don't care about your feelings. Like you, you, you never really validated mine, and the reason why is because you know what I tell guys all the time is like, look, when a woman feels something and immediately our reaction is to like take it personal Well like yeah.

Speaker 2: 55:52

Why does she feel like? Does it make sense? Is it just? Is she justified in feeling this way? Right, Women feel things for all kinds of crazy reasons, Like it could just be that time of the month, it could be whatever, you know crying at. Jurassic Park, the animal, the dinosaur, dies. She's upset, whatever. It is Right. But guys, immediately, as guys were like okay, and the first thing we say a lot of times is you don't need to be upset about that, you shouldn't be upset about that, you shouldn't which is just that's boom.

Speaker 2: 56:22

And women are not like healed oh thank you, it's just like but emotional validation is just to say I don't have to agree with her, I don't have to agree with her, but I have to understand how she feels and accept that and have empathy for how she feels. At the end of the conversation it can be like yeah, I'm sorry you feel that way. I didn't mean to make you feel that way. However, what I said still stands. That could still be the, you know, but at least you've shown the emotional validation, because women just want to know that, what their feelings matter and I didn't get this for a long time as a guy, and so a lot of guys go through their whole life.

Speaker 2: 56:58

They're like every time she gives me a problem, I fix it for her, I listen to her, I listen to her bitch.

Speaker 2: 57:03

She complains, she whines, right, I'm sitting there listening, I'm working, I'm doing all this stuff, and now she feels like her emotional needs aren't met and when I try and tell her how I'm upset, she doesn't want to hear it, she doesn't have any empathy for me. And what they don't realize is that they think they're doing the right things, but really the woman is resenting them because she doesn't feel like she can even be upset. In fact, a lot of women get to a point in a relationship where they feel like if she's in a bad mood, if she's upset, then it's going to cause a whole problem and a whole fight and so she just kind of hides it and she doesn't feel like she can actually be herself and that creates that level of resentment where that's where these guys are seeing this. And again, it's not necessarily these guys' fault because no one's taught them this, but it's the way that I see it happen so many times.

Speaker 1: 57:53

Yeah, it's multifaceted layers here. Here's, here's a funny thing for the emotional validation for men. I was actually asking a lot of people because the term emotional cheating was very confusing to me, like because every person that I would ask had a different answer. Like it's just like where their personal line of where they think it is is like I'm like, is it saying hi to somebody? Is it a naked picture? Like we're, there's this huge spectrum of people who, like they all had a different line and so I was looking at it and I'm like so, somebody who's getting like an emotional need met from other people or something like that. I'm like okay, cool, I got it.

Speaker 1: 58:29

I realized almost all of my guys, including myself, when the relationships were struggling, all of my guys, including myself, when the relationships were struggling, were emotionally cheating. Then, based on the rules with the men in our group, the brotherhood itself was the emotional cheating. We were like dude, let me just put my heart on the table and go bro, bring it here. I got you, brother, and like man, you're important, dude, you're valuable, I'm proud of you for doing that. Battle man. And like they could take their armor off and grow and feel like they belong. Battle man, and like they could take their armor off and grow and feel like they belong, they matter, they can be a human being and learn how to do healthy versions and feel like, dude, you're important, you're not. You're not a piece of shit, you're not a check, you're not a. You're not, you know, a receptacle for people's the garbage to throw, like, oh, you're an important person, man, and you're valued here, you're important here and you're loved here. Yeah, and those guys like damn, it's the first time I feel like anybody heard me in like 10 years. And so the guys.

Speaker 1: 59:22

I do believe the healthy version of how this works. I think guys need their brothers, I think they need that and like that's the emotional validation element that guys can go like we may not come from her. Yeah, and this is where I can take the pressure off of the girls to be the emotional validation for the guy. It's like, well, guys can do that for guys though, cause I can have empathy for a guy, no problem at all, right, but it seems like the ladies have a hard time having empathy for their guy. It's a very rare thing to see these days, and so the guys are still getting empathetic validation from other men to go, especially respected men, like well done, brother. That's a tough fight. I'll go in with you and going you're important man, I'll fight. I'll fight right alongside you. Open the box, let's fight a demon together. You're you're, you're worth it. You know those things like fuck me.

Speaker 2: 1:00:10

I really feel like I'm important here and that's those things are good and that's how it should be. How you're describing is perfect. Because let me give you an example of why. Let's suppose, as a man, I have a lot of financial worries. Let's say that I'm just like really concerned about things, like I'm just unsure about what I should do and where we should go and all these things.

Speaker 2: 1:00:34

Right, I'm not saying that you shouldn't have that conversation at all with your wife, but that's not a conversation Like you don't want to present, being scared and unsure of yourself and not knowing what to do, and like those might be real feelings that you have. Right, the appropriate place to express those is a men's group, or is it with your brother to? You know, you could take out, like you said, you could take off your armor, you can show your weakness there, because you really, as a man, shouldn't necessarily be showing your weakness in front of the woman you're with, because it's not going to inspire confidence, just like the, you know the I said the general, and that's why that dynamic is so true and it doesn't mean that, like a woman doesn't care, it's just that, hey, she's depending on you. You're the general you took, you're the captain of the ship. The captain of the ship better not be at the helm, being like, oh shit, that's a big wave, you know he needs to be.

Speaker 2: 1:01:27

Like he's inside, he's going oh shit, that's a big wave. But he's like, oh, we're good, I got it, we good, you know. Like he's got it because he's got to inspire confidence, you know I mean. But he can afterwards he could go to his first mate you know in the, you know, or his brother, his other captains, and be like man that was, I thought I was gonna die, I thought we were all gonna die. But he can't say that to the crew. That would be horrible, right?

Speaker 1: 1:01:48

so so you're right that gathering of alphas has been a very useful thing in the Warriors way as I do a round table set up here where, like you know, the creed that we operate on is more Camelot rules. We're all here because we're pack leaders. Outside of here, you got your family, you got businesses, we've got all these things that we have to run your ass kicked and fail and have the stress and unload and get different perspectives that don't necessarily match what my beliefs are, and learn and grow from each other and push ourselves in a way that if we fail completely, it's fine. How does the pack leader get better if he always has to be the best? Well, how do you do that? Well, together we're way stronger. So we collaborate as a bunch of alphas. We all exchange best practices and then break and go and protect your pack, and so that thing is there. This is where I've noticed for the guys and this is something for both you guys and for us like any guys out there who think that they have to be lone wolves go hungry all the time, but the pack always eats, and so we're just stronger together. And so if you've got the collaboration of alphas and I mean positive alphas, I don't mean like smash a beer can and flick everybody off.

Speaker 1: 1:03:04

Alpha. I'm talking about the encouragers, the builders, the gorillas out there, the ones who are support and nurture and serve. When you said being a king, you talked about chivalry, service and taking care of. It's ironic that being a king is all servitude. These are all things that I do for them, and that's where the alpha is just support and build their own team, make sure they're okay. And so this is where I think people are getting the stuff, where, like alpha means you do everything for me. I'm like I don't know. You're being a boy, not a man. You're trying to take, not give. You're missing, you're mixing. You're mixing it up, yep. And so this is where I say the men need men and any women who are like you talk to your guys too much, you play too much call of duty with your friends or whatever. So I was like let him have his boy time, because that's how he unloads the shit you don't want to hear about, because it pushes women into their masculine.

Speaker 1: 1:03:57

If a guy is like I'm really struggling, this is where you said like damn man, I'm getting sued right now. I'm losing a bunch of money, like I'm getting my ass kicked and if I'd share with her, we're like we're hemorrhaging money. She's gonna be like, well, my safety security now isn't okay, so I guess I better get a job and I better take care of it myself and I guess I better do everything for me. And you're like, no, I'm just saying I'm getting my ass kicked, sheesh. But with your boys you go like all right, well, I got my attorney who will help you and then we can also pitch in for you. We'll make sure you guys get through this shame or a guilt or a blame involved. It's going to be just support in the way that your girl would just find instability. It's a tough game, though. I think guys need guys and this is something I want to challenge. Very difficult for society where, like you know, men have to do it all on your own. You're wrong. It doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1: 1:04:49

It doesn't make any sense. Also, I think ladies need ladies. I don't think that, John, I don't think that us guys are built for venting Doesn't make a lot of sense to us. We're not built for it, because everything that she's just venting we want to help her with.

Speaker 2: 1:05:00

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:05:01

We don't want to sit there validating feelings. I want to be like well, baby, I can make your life better immediately. That's my job. Is your life is better? Yeah, but I vent, go, go, do your two hour, just unload negative information and then bring, like I actually do want to have this be better and this be better, babe, and they're like happy to serve, can't wait to be there, yes, please. I don't think we're made for venting because it just pours negativity on us. That like I don't think we're made for that.

Speaker 2: 1:05:37

I think it's hard. I, I, I agree with you that women should, you know, have girlfriends that they can, you know, discuss some of this stuff with. But I do also think, you know having me a man that didn't understand how to emotionally validate a woman and allow her to vent and then learning it that women really do appreciate that a lot, and it does show that you love them and care for them to a very high degree. That again, it doesn't mean that all the time, it doesn't mean she can't share things with her girls as well, but it does. I think it does make a really big impact for a woman feeling felt, feeling seen and heard, and so I do think that men still need to practice it because they're going to have to anyway.

Speaker 1: 1:06:40

It's like if you abdicate that responsibility to just her girlfriends, then what's going to like? You're not going to have the tools that you need in order to really understand a woman. Well, I'm with the accountability. I'm with you. We have to learn how to absorb her negative emotions and be able to validate her feelings. But I would say, if we have this level of accountability as that partner to do something, that's just against our normal grain. Men rank three times less in negative emotion than women. Women just gossip and share, and it's just the numbers. It just shows they're more negatively connected.

Speaker 1: 1:07:05

I've got five girls in here, three teenage daughters.

Speaker 1: 1:07:09

Let me just tell you the amount of just oh my God, she sucks and nobody likes her. That's how they connect with people and I'm like ladies, you do know, like you're connecting through negativity with your friends, right, like oh my god, you don't get it. And I'm like maybe, or maybe you don't, because like you're doing it and like there's a negativity. Like that I've noticed even with our girls in high school, where if one of them gets an, a plus, it's like I just aced that test, like okay, cool, and then she'll leave and be like she thinks she's so smart, she thinks he's all that. I'm like, well, wait a second, that was good. But if she goes, hey, did you see that Sabrina just did this thing? Oh my God, she is such a slut. And I'm like, oh my God, like, all in full attention, everybody's all eyes on them. All this validation and attention and their stories are the center of the universe for their friend group, because negativity draws them in. I think boys don't do well with that.

Speaker 3: 1:08:04

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I think what John is able to say, a lot of this because and not to toot my own horn I'm pretty different than most women. I'm not disrespectful, toot my own horn, I'm I'm pretty different than most women. I'm not disrespectful to him. Like, even when I vent to him, I don't do it in like a super heavy, negative way. Cause I agree with you because when our daughter, who's also about to be a teenager, comes with her stuff like you just said it is they do it in that immature way where it is really heavy and it is really negative and sometimes to the point where, like I'm having a conversation with her and I'm like John, I need you actually, because you're not taking all this on as much as me. Like you know, as a I'm a super highly sensitive emotional person. So, like when she gets that negativity going, I'm like whoa.

Speaker 3: 1:08:51

So I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I try to come to him in a more like vulnerable, like position where it's not like me attacking him for a position, but I feel like, if it's if a woman's coming from that immature place of venting, it is very negative and very heavy and very like, oh my God, I can't believe this girl. Or they're like still angry and so they're almost projecting that anger to whoever they're venting to and it's like you get that energy back from them. So I agree with you that a lot of women in general are still stuck in that very immature, very like gossipy place. And again, if they're not focused on the personal development and things like that and like realizing you can't take things out on people even if you're not focused on the personal development and things like that, and like realizing you can't take things out on people even if you're venting, even if it's not about them, then you're going to get that dynamic.

Speaker 1: 1:09:44

So it's easy for john to say a lot of this stuff because I don't you got a girl who's doing the work like hold on a second exactly but again, if somebody just listened to the first half and just said love me for who I am, the amount of accountability Nicole is talking about right now is not on the table for a lot of these girls maturity right.

Speaker 2: 1:10:17

She's never called me a bad name once, Not one time. We've been together for over three years. Not one time has it slipped out.

Speaker 3: 1:10:21

But I have done that in the past. So I'm not trying to be painted as an angel To John. I am because, like I said, I just have the utmost respect and love for him that I've ever had. So none of that ever comes out of my mouth because it's it doesn't even cross my mind, it wouldn't come out of my mouth but it has, and so that's like I'm like the poster child woman of like went from strong, independent, single woman I don't need a man to this traditional dynamic, and that's why we also started our podcast, because I realized that I fell into what society told me to do and then realized it's way better to be in your feminine energy. It's way better to like, have a man that you respect, who takes on those responsibilities, who gets that off of a woman's shoulder so she can be in her feminine, she can be nurturing, she can be caring, she can be all the things. She can be the rock.

Speaker 1: 1:11:22

When you say Lamborghini, that's a Lamborghini. Right, yeah, this is what I was looking for. When I go, like, what do you bring to your table? And you're like I bring vulnerability, I bring accountability, I bring nurture, I bring compassion, I bring the fuel in your rocket. I bring these things like those are Lamborghini. Talk to me, go and love me, for who I am is. It's a cop out. I'm not needing to grow, but when you go, I'm working on effort for myself. I want to be the best wife and the best mother. I want to be the best me possible. I'm going to take accountability, authenticity and I will practice my empathy. But I'm also not going to call you names. I'm not going to tear you down. I'm not going to nag you to pieces. If you start saying what does a woman bring to the table? And you go, this is what I show up with. Dudes are like oh my God, this one's a Lamborghini.

Speaker 2: 1:12:02

But here's the thing, here's the catch. Yeah, right, because Nicole said she wasn't like this in past relationships. Sure, the man has to create the environment where that doesn't happen. Naturally, a woman can work on herself and definitely improve herself, which nicole has done, but she will not be able to be in her feminine unless the man is in his total masculine, which means totally protecting and providing, totally creating the safety that she needs. Uh, because that's the reason why I believe.

Speaker 2: 1:12:38

I mean, you know, I don't want to take any credit away from Nicole, because she's done a lot of work on herself. She's never yelled at our daughter, even one time either, you know so like she has, really, and that's an example of just her own emotional maturity. But but I also like to think that you know, like Nicole was saying, that I created that environment where she could thrive in her feminine and help guide her with that, with things that we've talked about, with books, with. You know, with as much a woman, she doesn't feel unconditionally loved, which is what really makes her feel safe, because then she feels safe to be upset, she feels safe to have emotions. That's where she can now be in her feminine, because the feminine is very emotional. And so if she doesn't feel that unconditional love or even if we don't use the word unconditional love, if we just say if she doesn't feel loved for who she is, right, regardless of how she feels then she's not going to be able to be in that place. It doesn't mean that automatically she's in that place. But I would say that a lot of guys, if they truly understand women, if they truly understand how to really love a woman, right. And here's what I learned.

Speaker 2: 1:13:56

This I was listening to, we were listening to radio or some song and when a man loves a woman came on right and it goes when a man loves a woman, she can do no wrong. And I thought about that and I was like when a man verb loves a woman, not noun, when he wants to show love to a woman, verb loves a woman, not noun, when he wants to show love to a woman, he makes her feel like she can do no wrong. And that's the key to it is because women are fragile. The feminine is fragile. You can very easily damage that and make it feel unsafe. And so if a man understands how to make a woman feel like she can do no wrong even if there's some correction that needs to be done.

Speaker 2: 1:14:34

Man understands how to make a woman feel like she can do no wrong, even if there's some correction that needs to be done, but she doesn't feel like a bad person or that she's wrong. That's the key, because that opens it up, where a woman will listen, where she will be led, and the man that understands that can help shape and grow her. Because, again, as a man, you have to grow yourself, but you should also be growing your family. You should be helping your woman and growing her, and she will. You know, you take the same woman and you put her with one guy and she'll cheat on him, call him names, yell at him, do all kinds of disrespectful stuff.

Speaker 2: 1:15:07

You put her with another guy. She'll treat him like a king. She'll worship the ground he walks on. She will be sweet and feminine and the difference is not the woman in that case.

Speaker 2: 1:15:17

It's how the man is showing up and that's why I put the responsibility so much on men, because men are the initiators, women are the responders. So a lot of what's happening, women are programmed to be feminine in response to masculinity, whereas in the absence of that, women are going to be masculine and women will challenge a man to see if she's more masculine than him, and if she is, then she will take that role, because women have survival instinct built into them. And so, as a man, yeah, a woman is going to initially challenge your masculinity and you have to be cool with that and show her that it doesn't faze you and that you are going to be the alpha, you are going to be the captain of this ship, and then that will give her the feeling of safety because she's like I can't push this guy over. I can't push him over, he just is strong, he's not getting upset about this, he just sticks to what he believes. And now she relaxes into her feminine.

Speaker 3: 1:16:10

Yeah, unfortunately in today's dating a man almost like with wolves or something. Unfortunately in today's dating a man almost like with wolves or something, a man has to out masculine the woman and make her submit.

Speaker 3: 1:16:21

In that way, you know, like with the dog, you can make the dog submit even if they're trying to like, attack you. You have to kind of do that and it sucks because, like you know, a lot of women are in their masculine and you, you know they have to lead that way. I think, to some degree to survive on their own, they have to have some masculinity, some masculine traits, like they have to pay their bills, they have to make sure, you know, they're doing the things that they need to do. But all women I would say I might get some flack for saying that want to be able to relax in their femininity, you know, and like have a masculine man to take those responsibilities away from her so she can just be nurturing. And the thing too, is that femininity has gotten such a bad rep, like all of the qualities of like, nurturing, caring, emotional, all those things have gotten they're, they're seen weak and a lot of men see them as weak and a lot of men make women feel bad for having these qualities. Yet they say they want a feminine woman but they don't see the benefit of a woman having these qualities because they're like that's weakness. So women need to take back the power of what they bring to the table as a feminine woman and that you know a man.

Speaker 3: 1:17:37

Can a man have a family, like raise kids on his own? Yes, Is it going to be the same way that it is going to be if they have a nurturing woman in their life? No, so it's like they have to realize the other half of the yin and yang, as we like to call it, is just as valuable. You can't have the yin and yang, as we like to call it, is just as valuable. You can't have the yin and yang without both pieces.

Speaker 1: 1:17:58

So you know, I agree with you guys on this one. I think the problem for these kinds of conversations that the answers aren't solutions, and I think that's where people get goofed up is like that's what you're supposed to be and you're like great, but that's a giant chasm for me to I don't know how to get from here to there, like, and so that's where you you're not wrong and I do hope that you guys do create like a full relationship program for people on this one. But for our guys, one thing I think I value that you're both doing is that you're both putting the accountability on yourselves, and I think this is something where, if I were to just start with people like, the accountability is on you and I'm talking to you Now, no matter who that is, it's you, so it's the accountability starts with you and like she needs to be accountable for her elements of herself and he needs to be accountable for his elements of his self and for guys to be able to have healthy male mentors today it's very difficult to do and they need to be able to hang out with guys like us, john. They need to, or they don't know how to be cool in the face of combat. They don't know how to be cool in the face of conflict. They don't know how to be cool when she's like losing her shit and go, baby, calm down. You know, I got you Right. Like they don't know how to do that. And they're like, if she's freaking out, I have to please the matriarch and she's in her masculine so I have to do everything she says. And you're like please take a deep breath there, buddy, like stop, throw a little bass in your voice, calm down, like chill. And so this is where you're not wrong.

Speaker 1: 1:19:28

But the accountability has to go not only with knowing thyself, but they also have to beat their own battles and a lot of these guys don't know how to do it. And that's why I have such a successful men's group, because they have to overcome doubt and fear and blame and shame and anger and depression. And you have to go through the curses of the parents and get through the stuff that's been put on you to make you feel like a piece of shit. Or you don't deserve love or you're unworthy. You have no motivation, no dreams, no, no wants. You don't believe in your potential, all these identity issues that are rattled into your beliefs, and you're like hold on a second. Let's get this dude solid to even be the leader to take on everybody else's stuff it's hard.

Speaker 1: 1:20:10

That's why there aren't very many guys like this well, they need us and this is why I say together we're stronger. It's not because, you know, I'm the king of everybody, it's it's king arthur's court. In my world it's like come here, john, come sit at my table, but your sword is just as valuable as my sword and I want to hear from everybody in here and if I say something silly, challenge that shit, because if I I'm reserving the right to have a like, change my mind. If it's a better idea, we'll do it. You know, it's not an ego thing, it's going to be a humility and a wisdom and not knowing everything, yeah. And so this is where I think that that's the beauty in what you guys are saying is, I see a high level of accountability on both sides and, nicole, praise on you for that, because a lot of women these days are blame throwing and not doing accountability. And I think, starting there, even with the women I've had on the show, the women who have the most successful relationships take a high level of accountability.

Speaker 3: 1:21:04

I will say too, like when I was dating, I realized that I did have to be with someone else who was doing the work because, I was with people who didn't have accountability as men and it it's and I feel like for men too like if you're not with a woman who takes accountability and I'm not saying she has to be perfect, but you know that's it's important because you're just going to be at a standstill, like one person cannot carry the relationship and I know John knows too, and yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:21:33

Well, that's what that's where it can like said it's it's. You guys are not incorrect, but the details can make it very incorrect. Well, john said I gotta be the leader, so if anything goes wrong it's all on me. So I have to carry the whole relationship, so it is all on me. It's like hold on. No, no, it's not completely that way, but that is your part. You have to do your part but it's not only that part.

Speaker 2: 1:21:53

So hold on.

Speaker 1: 1:21:53

Like it's real easy to goof up the information.

Speaker 2: 1:21:56

As a man, you have to think that way, though, because I always tell guys about having the captain of the ship talk, right, which is like when a woman asks you for commitment. Initially, you have the captain of the ship talk and you say, look, I would like to get in a relationship with you. However, you need to know I'm the captain of the ship. I would like to get in a relationship with you. However, you need to know I'm the captain of the ship. I'll always be the captain of the ship. There's not a co-captain. I'm the captain and I will make the decisions. Now I'm a good captain. I'll go down with the ship. I will put my crew first. I will always put you above me, your needs above mine, like I will take care of you.

Speaker 1: 1:22:36

I will take full accountability and responsibility for the ship and the actions of the crew. So she has agreed to that. But but part of that, I think, guys, that I don't want to skip that. Yeah, you didn't say I'm the captain because I have a power issue and I need to tell everybody what to do, right? You said I'm the captain because if it goes wrong, it's me and I put you guys, you guys are part of the plan and I make sure everybody's accounted for and it's all going to work in your favor, and if it goes wrong, I go down with the ship. My plan fails, it's my plan fails. If the plan works, good job, everybody. Right, exactly, and I think that people aren't understanding the burden of leadership when they think they just want power and authority and not responsibility.

Speaker 2: 1:23:15

And so I don't want to skip what you just said there.

Speaker 2: 1:23:18

And that's where it comes down to is from a man's thinking. If you want authority, you have to have responsibility. So you cannot say it's my wife's fault. She needs to have accountability. Yes, she does, but you shouldn't be concerned with her needing to have accountability. That's her problem. But as far as facing the world, you're one vessel and you're the captain. So whatever she does, it's your responsibility. If your wife is out there posting thirst traps on Instagram, that's you. That's on you as a man. That's not on her, that's on you. To the world Now, in between the two of you, yeah, you might have a discussion about that and say, hey, stop doing that. But if you allow that to happen, that looks bad on you as a man because you're the one who's accountable.

Speaker 1: 1:24:04

It's that wording, but you allowed that to happen is where this goes off the rails, because now people won't go into how do we work through this together? And it goes into forced compliance. It's real easy for that one word to throw the marriage into a spiral. I allowed her to do that. Well then, I'll delete that stuff off her phone and I control her bills and I'll take care of this. And she can't do that Now it turns into authority over in a negative way, because I wasn't going to allow her to do that. Hold on, what do you mean by allow? And this is going to be a very different way. Like I said, it's just one word can goop this whole thing up.

Speaker 2: 1:24:41

You didn't have that boundary is what I mean by allow right or didn't hold your boundary because you can have it.

Speaker 1: 1:24:47

but that's the problem, isn't having boundaries, it's holding them.

Speaker 2: 1:24:50

Yeah, men are afraid to hold boundaries. Today, they get shamed for holding boundaries.

Speaker 1: 1:24:54

People are afraid to hold boundaries.

Speaker 2: 1:24:56

That's true, that's just people.

Speaker 1: 1:24:58

The boundaries one is that every group I have is like well, how do I do it? Like men and women, People are like how do I do the boundaries right without being a total bitch or a total asshole, Like how do I do it? So that's where I'm with you, but being able to teach that I really am just going to lean in. I hope you guys are putting a relationship program together, right?

Speaker 1: 1:25:18

You guys are going to be doing it, yeah definitely I think it's good to be able to fill in the gaps, because I don't think you guys are incorrect. Your logic seems sound and it seems like it's functionally working correctly. But I think that's why I say the answers aren't. The solution is, you guys are like like, check it out, this is what it's supposed to be, like everybody it's supposed to be like this. And people are like, oh, mine's not doing that shit at all and you gotta do is like I got the greens. I got the greens.

Speaker 1: 1:25:51

Yes and they're like yeah, but I don't want to fuck up the other side to get all the other ones, yeah, and this dude over here is trying to like peel this one off so he can like I'm gonna try and cheat this shit, I'm gonna make this work and like it just looks like crap now. And it looks obviously a mess. And knowing the answer doesn't mean I know how to solve it, so I know what it's supposed to look like. You guys, look guys, all the sides are the same. Pretty awesome, you're like mine is not doing that. I don't get it, you know. And so people get frustrated at this and go well, she should solve her side, and that's where it gets really tough on this. So I hope you guys make a program because there's a lot of elements to know thyself, know thy own internal enemies, to be able to beat that stuff and then be able to go into battle just for yourself, but with each other, and not well, let me give.

Speaker 2: 1:26:39

Let me give you a good resource in the meantime. Here actually I got the books. Uh, I'll just pull it okay don't worry, we're so live.

Speaker 3: 1:26:50

It hurts yeah, relationships are complicated, though, like you said, there's a lot of elements, so many intricate little things it would take forever to discuss.

Speaker 2: 1:27:02

I think these books are really good for men.

Speaker 2: 1:27:04

The way the superior man, yeah by david and the spiritual successor to that book, the masculine in relationship, by gs youngblood. This this book really is. I think is is solid, like every man should read this book because it will help to understand a lot of these things, I think. And also it's really about taking accountability. You know which, but? But there's a lot. I mean, you're not wrong with the rubik's cube, I mean, I, you know, I don't. I don't want us to just be preaching the ideal but not giving the solution for how to get to it. But I also don't want us to just be preaching the ideal but not giving the solution for how to get to it. But I also don't want to apologize or back away from the ideal because it's too hard for people. It's just like, you know, we had a podcast and I'm like look, the man should provide, the woman shouldn't work, and Nicole's like people aren't going to be able to do that.

Speaker 1: 1:27:47

I'm like, okay, I agree, not everyone's going to be able to do that no-transcript element for my guys, like if you think you're supposed to just know this, you were trained by people who weren't trained, right.

Speaker 1: 1:28:30

Our parents, our parents didn't know what they were doing. And that's again, too, where it's difficult. They go like, well, I just go off of what my dad did and I'm like, well, let's go ahead and take into account the training. Like when you guys got your daughter was the hospital like, okay, now you have to go through, you know, psychological development of children so you can understand how the faces of a child they should do that they should.

Speaker 3: 1:28:50

It doesn't though.

Speaker 1: 1:28:51

They should. That doesn't, though. They just go like okay, here you go, don't let this thing die. Like there's no training on this, and so our parents weren't taught by people who had understanding of this either, and so we're going through with very limited, um, you know, understanding. It's almost kind of like uh, what it takes to make a kid has nothing to do with raising a kid.

Speaker 1: 1:29:12

I use an analogy of if, uh, if, you guys owned a restaurant and you guys were like John, you're the best cook. Like you're the best cook in the planet. And you're like man, you make good, good food and I love going there and eating the food there. And I'm like I love this food so much. You are such a good cook.

Speaker 1: 1:29:29

And he's like well, now, since you love the food so much, you should be a farmer. You're like why should I be a farmer? It's like well, that's where food comes from. And so, since you love to eat at the restaurant, now you're a farmer. And that's kind of what it's like with you two Like, hey, we love the sex. It's awesome. You're like you love sex. Well, here's a kid Raise that You're like that has nothing to do with raising a kid. In fact, I can't do any of this with kids, so these aren't even in the same territory, yeah, and so it's really tough where people go, like I just wanted to have sex with my girl and now we have a kid and I have no idea what I'm doing.

Speaker 1: 1:30:06

I'm not a farmer at all, I have no idea. So guys need guys. Today they need guys and I'm leaning hard. As you're going to be a leader, you got to hang with other leaders, but a lot of these guys are hanging out with their buddies from high school just like getting drunk on the weekend, and you're going to be like it's tough for you to learn how to be a good pack leader if you're with other guys who just like opening the packs and it's going to be very difficult to be able to find that. So we have to seek out brotherhood like this, that. So we have to seek out brotherhood like this and like.

Speaker 1: 1:30:37

Ladies are really struggling right now, nicole. They're struggling to find, like how do I find a group of ladies Like I'd started one which is like the black sheep women, which is just, we don't agree with the backstabbing, gossiping stuff that women are doing today, and most of these women have no friends that are female. They're like where are the girls who don't backstab you? Where are the girls who don't do that? I'm like I'll put you guys all in a group and you guys sort it Like find your new best friend. These are all the ladies who are like we don't. These ladies are not doing well to each other. They're being mean to each other.

Speaker 3: 1:31:06

I think it's too, cause dating's also hard for women in different ways and we won't go fully into that. It's like they're just view each other as competition and so they don't, you know, I mean they might get close and then backstab. You know, keep your enemies closer, but otherwise it's like. And two, it goes back to that kind of high school mentality of like gossiping creates this like intimacy that they think is a good friendship connection, but it's not sustainable because if someone can talk about someone else in front of you, they can talk about you to someone else, so it's never like a good, solid foundation for women to stand on.

Speaker 1: 1:31:53

It's so true it's tough. I'm going to put an idea down and, nicole, I want your point of view on this because for the ladies, for the guys we triple down hard on, like your strengths and leadership and so on that one, you should be booking calls with John or myself, like you should be having these conversations with us and we'll show you the way. But the ladies right now I'm going to put out a thing and, nicole, I want your point of view. I think ladies today are taking natural parts of what women are built to do and they're doing it the negative way and not the positive way, and people aren't looking at it as a positive way. So I got a few traits here and I'm going to put it down there.

Speaker 1: 1:32:31

One of the things for the women's role and I've talked to some polarization women who are really into feminine energy. They say women are the chaos. They are the chaos and the idea of the emotions are all over. It's more chaotic with the emotional side and the idea behind saying something is chaos. I just did a training on Tuesday with this.

Speaker 1: 1:32:52

Just the word itself. It's just associated with so much negativity. But I'm like, well, hold on, it doesn't. It doesn't mean like being crazy or, you know, psycho or screaming and losing your shit all over the place, cause that's also chaos. Dropping bombs is chaos, but the positive chaos just means something surprising, something that wasn't routine, something that isn't part of the plan, and I think that there are good things with spontaneity and being exciting and being playful and goofing with each other and laughing, and I think people forget. The reason people laugh is because there was something unexpected, like I didn't expect it. That makes it funny, and so that spontaneity of chaos in a positive way is a very beautiful female trait.

Speaker 1: 1:33:37

But I think women are tripling down on the negative side and not focusing on how do I become that surprise party? Instead of being like the what the fuck is the dishes not done yet and all this stuff Validate me. You're like, oh my God. Like, hold on, I think there's a positive chaos. Now I got two more of these. But what do you think Is that when, like, hold on, I think there's a positive chaos. Now I got two more of these. But what do you think Is that when, like, women can practice their chaos in a very positive way?

Speaker 3: 1:34:01

Yeah, I mean, I think you know, being feminine and being emotional, emotions are like John said, it's like one minute it's one thing, one minute it's the other thing, it's unpredictable. It's like spontaneous, like you know, you could be feeling something one minute and then five minutes later you're like oh, I'm okay. And with men it's kind of it's more consistent. And so, yeah, the women kind of bring that dynamic, like you said, the fun they're like switching it up. You know, a guy is very consistent, it's very, almost like not monotone, but I'm thinking of it as a more of like, you know, steady, whereas a woman it's more of like a squiggly line, where a guy's like a straight line, and so, you know, without that it'd be a very like kind of bland and boring life. You know, I'm not saying create issues for the sake of creating issues. There's women who do that Not a good, not a good thing to do. You know, some people can't even have, you know, just some consistency without being like, oh, I need to like cause some problem, and that also stems from trauma and other things like that. So you know, that's a whole nother thing that a woman would need to work on, if that's where it's coming from.

Speaker 3: 1:35:09

But, like you said, like you know, a woman is the one who kind of brings the dynamic to the relationship as far as, like you know, making it more fun or like switching it to a different side.

Speaker 3: 1:35:20

You know, and it should be a positive thing, it should be like, you know, embracing that you can have all these big emotions you know, don't make it big as in like yelling and calling your husband names, but that you can make like such a simple day so happy, just by few little things because of your energy, because of your emotion, because of your like thought behind it. Or you know, if, like someone in your family is really down, you can really be that rock and be like you know I, like someone in your family is really down, you can really be that rock and be like you know I'm here for you and empathize with them and be almost like not down with them but get on their level. So it's like you have that dynamic inside of you that kind of creates the life a little bit, not totally, you know, but creates life to the relationship.

Speaker 2: 1:36:11

I mean, if you're healthy, it can be good. What do you got? Here's a, an analogy, like cyclops with, you know, x-men with the visor off with the visor on focused, powerful right yeah, well, it's just training your superpower.

Speaker 1: 1:36:27

I, I definitely agree with that. I use the cyclopsops analogy also in some of my training. So right there with you, I'm right there with you, john. I think we can nerd it up pretty well.

Speaker 1: 1:36:38

But in any case, like no, I think the chaos element is something if women are bringing the spontaneity, the excitement, the surprise, the playfulness, the laughter, the fun being in your feminine on, that one just makes it so that you're a joy to be with. And that part is the part where I'm like is this a Lamborghini? Is she just a joy to be with and doesn't create more drama? Her benefits are higher than her baggage. Like she brings more good than bad. I'm like that sounds good. So your chaos doesn't have to be the negative, it can be part of a positive. Here's another one Women seem never satisfied. They always seem to want more. Well, a very negative one would be the nagger. Or she's always seeing things as transactional how can I get more? She's complaining or tears people down and like just not happy, like just negative all the time. But I also believe that not being satisfied becomes the reason that John's potential is able to go through is because you're like going to rocket fuel your guy. You're like we can do more, babe. You're like, no, I just I just beat this whole thing, or I just that's the highest I've ever. It's our best month ever. You're like now, since we've done that, I bet you we can do more. You're like you think so I believe in you. Okay, well, if you think we can do it, all right. Well, yeah, I bet we can. And that still wanting more is encouraging and pushes potential and build your guy up. And she's the best cheerleader because she's like we can do more. We can do more, Like we got this and like believe in your guy and not like you need to do better, you're just not doing enough. No, go, like we can get more together, babe, let's do it.

Speaker 1: 1:38:14

And again, a big part of that I think women forget is that men, a part of us is that little boy who just wants to make their girl to be impressed with them. Right, that little boy Look what I can do, look what I built, look what I fixed, or look what I created, or look how much I lifted, or look what I can jump off of, or whatever. We want our girls to go wow, he's awesome. And so there's that element of if you keep getting wowed, he'll keep trying to wow you more, yeah. And so there's a part where, like, being never satisfied doesn't mean nag and complain. It means you can encourage and build. It means you can encourage and build.

Speaker 1: 1:38:47

And that's where I remember, like the Barbara Bush story where she was engaged to a guy before she was with President Bush, like before they got together, she was engaged to another guy and as he was president, he's like aren't you glad you didn't marry that guy? And she's like, if I had married that guy, he would have been president, because she would have lifted him up, she would have boosted up the guy, she would be the rocket to his fuel. And she's like don't think that you did this without me. Like I'm the wind beneath your wings, don't you dare? Like if I was with him, he'd be president, you know. And so I don't want to take away the element of how powerful that can be for women, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:39:27

I think, like you said too, it's a slippery slope with women because, okay, so like when they're not satisfied the way you described at first, that comes from a very unhealed place, very insecure, or either very like resentful of the person that they chose and maybe they didn't make the best choice as far as, like the relationship they wanted, versus the healed, like what you said, where it's like, you know, both of us we're not satisfied with just staying how we are.

Speaker 3: 1:39:55

We want to be better, we want our relationship to be better. You know, we're always working towards those things, john, I'm always here for him with whatever he wants. I would never be like we need to do this, you know, because that would emasculate him. But if he's like, hey, can you help me with this? I'm, you know, I'm always the one that's like, yeah, you know, grabbing his camera and shooting shots for him and like you know, he's always bouncing ideas off of me and you know, and we're always just trying to help each other be better. So I feel like it's like the unhealed which comes from that like insecure place and full of resentment, and then the healed place of like just striving to be better in all the ways, like never satisfied with just staying where you are, sort of thing I think it's good again.

Speaker 1: 1:40:37

I just want to make sure we get that piece so they can go. You can see that can be done without being so negative. Here's one women, worry, worry so much like worry, worry, worry, worry, worry. What if this goes wrong? What if this happens? What if this happens and they'll get into like it's your fault and I'm freaking out and I'm having a panic attack and I'm overwhelmed. You're like well, what's the valuable side of that? Well, there's a lot of times that us guys, when we are capturing the ship, will have blind spots, stuff I didn't even think about seeing, or stuff when I did my equation. I didn't account for that possibility.

Speaker 1: 1:41:11

I think if you do it in a positive way, you can go. Babe, I just want to make sure you consider this and this and this, because those could be a problem. You go oh good call, I would probably do this or this If those come up. This is a very low probability, but if it does, we'll figure it out. But that's just another element of now. Do your equations with more points of view. I think that's a very benefit thing. But when they start getting into, I need to take control instead of, you know, just bring it to the team's attention. I think that's where you guys were talking about having a healthy masculine versus a unhealthy like feminine and like. If it's turns into a power struggle of like, well, I'm worried. So you need to do everything I say.

Speaker 1: 1:41:50

You're like what is happening? Just because you're worried doesn't mean it's happening, just slow down. And so there's a lot of these elements here. So I think the worry part is where women are thought to be kind of dramatic or go overboard. Dramatic or go overboard, but I think there's a positive version of it to make it so that, hey, did we consider all elements, because I worry about more shit than you. Did you consider these things too? And he'll go. That's a good call with those in there. We better have a contingency for this thing, we better have a backup plan for that. Good call, babe.

Speaker 3: 1:42:26

You know those are useful, yeah right which I struggled with the control thing because, you know, like I said, I was the type of woman who I'm, like I figured all my shit out, I did all the things I needed to do and like I trusted John, but I could still feel that I was still having that like control, which I also stemmed from my childhood as well too. So it was more so something that with him it was like kind of like residual control issues rather than like in other relationships, where I felt like I still had a lot of masculine energy. It was still controlling, you know cause I felt like I was like, oh, I gotta be, you know, in charge some of this, with some of this. But with him I know he's got it handled, I trust him and I know that if he, you know, has something that he wants my opinion on, he will definitely ask me and he knows my strengths.

Speaker 3: 1:43:18

Like you said, he knows that I pay attention to detail and, you know, think about things that maybe he might miss, that he'll come to me and ask me. Or if, like you said, if it's something that I feel like he hasn't asked about, that I'm like thinking that maybe he should know, I'll be like, hey, did you think about this? Or like just letting you know I noticed this. Do you think we should do something about that? It's always from a place of like teamwork sort of thing.

Speaker 1: 1:43:46

I think it's great, I think it's cool what you guys are doing. Again. You speak high accountability, though, like thank you, this is something I think if the ladies aren't catching up with you, you take a lot like that's me, and I do have my part to grow and I have the willingness to do the work and I I do see opportunity for me to get better. And, uh, this is something where I if anybody like just going in that a lot of people are waiting to say like the guy needs to step up. But you keep talking about you stepping up and I think that's the rare part in the ladies narrative today is how few women are going. I need to also have accountability and step up for myself so I can be able to be better at these things. And so, like the parts where, like these are, these are elements.

Speaker 1: 1:44:28

I think that if people were saying what do you bring to the table, the stuff we started off with, I think these ladies, if you really bring in like these things I've got these lists here or these things, it doesn't have to be just love me for who I am, but I will tell you like the stuff that's the non-tangible is the most valuable.

Speaker 1: 1:44:48

I'm soft or flexible, encouraging. I'm happy and I bring like the surprise and the fun. I'm desirable and I desire you and I love pleasure and I'm impulsive but also interesting and playful and nurturing and appreciative, and I build you up and I'll cheer you on and have high intimacy and passion around that, and I'm passionate about my dreams and my stuff too, and I, you know I bring all these things to the table. You go, I'm accountable, I try to work on my authenticity and I work really hard on also being compassionate towards my man's hurts too, and you go like, well, shit, that lady knows herself, you know, and it's something where you can go. I can really connect to somebody like that, because none of those are financial. It's not boobs and butts, it's not about makeup, it's not about superficial. These are all the things that are like this. Is that's high values, woman.

Speaker 3: 1:45:44

And I think for women it's easy to know your worth when you've worked so hard on bettering yourself. Like you know what you put in, you know what it took to get here, you know the things that you're capable of, and so you won't settle for anything less. You won't settle for some guy being like you know well, and you could say all that to a guy and he'd be like, well, that's what I got, that, and you're like okay, well then you don't need me. You know so, and like let and then leave you know, don't go on a date with him again.

Speaker 3: 1:46:13

So I feel like it is important for women to work on themselves, because you will realize your value a lot easier, because you know what you've been through, you know what you worked through and you know how you got here and that you're just going up. And if someone doesn't see that and appreciate that, then they're not for you.

Speaker 1: 1:46:31

Not a match. I like it. Like I said this, I can.

Speaker 2: 1:46:39

I can see the amount of work you put in. So praise to you, honor to you. On that one, I will say, as a guy, though, trying to find a woman like that is going to be searching for a needle in a haystack. It's like most likely for most men. I mean I'm very fortunate, like I jumped on that opportunity. As soon as I saw it I was like, okay, this is perfect. But for most guys they're going to need to help create that. That's where the leadership comes in is because if you, as a man, understand this, you can lead in a gentle way, through example and through helping a woman understand.

Speaker 3: 1:47:14

And inspire her.

Speaker 1: 1:47:15

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: 1:47:17

And I think that's a tricky game.

Speaker 1: 1:47:19

That's a tricky game. Yeah, it is a tricky game.

Speaker 2: 1:47:20

But even like some of the things, like you said, like you know, the chaos, the one never satisfied and the nitpicky kind of detail or complaining you could see it as A man can counter those things and respond to them. For example, like the emotional part if a woman, it's very easy to change a woman's emotions. That's the other aspect of it. It's so easy to just to not let the negativity get to you and just turn her around and now she's smiling, she's like this is the worst day ever. Oh, you really like my dance video. This is the best day ever. It's like you know that's instead of letting it get to you and you can be the one who guides her into the positive place. And if you're constantly guiding a woman when she's going into the negative side of the feminine, into the positive, through love and a gentle guidance, you're training her in that way. That's going to be better for her and for the relationship. So that's where I think again, I agree with you 100% Women should take accountability.

Speaker 2: 1:48:25

I just never preach it to guys, because that's what they're already preaching to me and that's not working for them. I preach to guys no, you take accountability. No, you help guide them. Don't look for the perfect woman. Don't be like I'm going to be a passport bro and go to another country. Instead, realize that there's a lot of feminist women that are living in this clown society today that have these crazy. It's not their fault because they grew up in this society, but you, as a man who understands things, who has clarity, can help those women and help guide them. If you find a woman that has good character, then you can help train her and guide her in those other ways, and that's what you should do as a man, because it's just ridiculous to think that you're going to just find I mean, yeah, women like Nicole do exist, but I don't know of any other one you know.

Speaker 1: 1:49:15

So and have camaraderie, and we have to be able to evolve and go first. And so, in order to lead and make the house feel that way, we have to go before everybody else, and sometimes a long distance before everybody catches on too, even in this house. Like, it took a long time even for our, you know, I got our daughters, or three or three girls, here. It took a long time until they got it, cause I had to evolve out of being that like the rage monster, cause I grew up in inner city Detroit, I grew up in just a hostile environment and so, like, I grew up in Sparta and that's why I relate to a lot of my soldiers and so, um, I just know like rage, anger, chaos and fighting, you know, I just know all those things. And so, to come in this place, I have five females in this home and say this is how god's teaching me this shit. He's like you need five girls. I'm like, oh my god, so, um, but they teach me that my energy matters and I can't speak spartan in here. They don't understand the dialect, yeah, so I had to change my tone. I learned how to speak differently just to be able to relate in this home. But I had to lead. I had to change my tone. I had to learn how to speak differently just to be able to relate in this home. But I had to lead. I had to change all of my stuff. I had to work through my curses and beat my demons and that had nothing to do with them because, honestly, they don't care. They don't care at all, they just see does it work for them? And they're kids and so I get it. They're not supposed to. And so now, now our teenagers, all the girls, come to me because they know I don't judge, I don't tear them apart, I don't not screaming at them, I don't call them names, and they do. They do teenager shit. One of them was just drinking this week and I'm like, were you safe about it? Like just be, listen, I did way worse. Are you safe? You know, be smart, don't put yourself in danger. Make sure you're aware of your surroundings, stay in a safe environment. Like you're gonna do things that teenagers are meant to do. I get it like. I can't make you not become an adult, that's part of it. But be safe and be smart and remember your training. And so I have to lead and be able to not go like you did, fucking what you're grounded. You know I can't be that Because, like then they'll never come to me again, exactly, you know. And so having those things where our confidence, our camaraderie, our purpose, and then ladies with accountability, authenticity and empathy, all of it leads to connection and I think it's one of those ones I very much agree, but, like, I think, as far as a testament and a goal for us guys to learn how to be an authentic, genuine, vulnerable pack leader. You know I talked about this on the To Be Better podcast.

Speaker 1: 1:52:00

Did you see the one where I talked about like gorillas as pack leaders? Did you ever see that how a gorilla is a leader Like we use gorilla often, a leader like we use gorilla often. When they studied gorillas, they would the silverback. You'd think like, like, just just rage and kicking everyone's ass. Like can't fuck with the silverback, he's too strong, he's just kicking everyone's ass all day long and they're like it's an aggressive animal, aggressive animal. When they started watching silverbacks, it was mostly aggressive towards the crew and very rarely attacking his own pack.

Speaker 1: 1:52:30

The silverback gorilla. It was like two percent needing to like if you fuck around, you find out 98 is the the gorilla going like nurturing or supporting, or like the little ones are trying to impress him, and he's like, oh, oh, oh, oh. Like validating the little ones, like look what I can do. And he's like, you know, like making them feel good. Or one got hurt and you'll see the silverback holding that one and making them feel okay.

Speaker 1: 1:52:56

And most of what the silverback does is the nurture, encourage, support, build up. But that animal will rip your fucking head off, and so it's one of those things where it's like it, just because I'm able to be vulnerable and compassionate and loving and nurturing doesn't mean that if you need to find out, you won't. And so it's only when, like you know, one of the younger males is like I think I could take you old man, like all right, let's do it. You know, like I'll show you. And that's about the only times you really have to see that high level of aggression come out. And I think that's something with us too where, like you know, you can be vulnerable and loving and compassionate and nurturing and soft, yeah, but if someone comes in the house who's not supposed to, I'll show you how damaging I can be.

Speaker 2: 1:53:43

Yeah, I think a lot of that's kind of the difference we call between being a nice guy and being a kind guy. A nice guy does things because he needs a validation from other people, he wants to please them or he's afraid of their condemnation. A kind guy does things because he wants to and he can do the same things, but his motive is different. And that's where it's like some people are, like they're afraid. Especially today, men are afraid of being a nice guy.

Speaker 2: 1:54:11

I don't want to be a nice guy, I don't want to be, and so they're like I can't give a girl flowers, or I can't say give a compliment, or I can't be kind, you know, and they're missing is because the nice guy is doing it for validation. That's why it was not received well. But the kind guy that has the power to not do it but chooses to do it and has no expectation of anything in return, that's the part of the vulnerability that comes from strength. Just like the silverback gorilla, it could rip your head off, but if it doesn't, it's not doing it because it's weak, it's doing it because it's being kind or it's being doing, you know, it's being nurturing, like you said.

Speaker 1: 1:54:51

This is just me personally, so it's probably not to say you're wrong, it's just I just have a hard time connecting. Like I'd probably go and say a nice guy, good man, like don't mistake, good man for weak, you know, because being kind and good may not necessarily feel the same. Because, like you can still do what is right even if everyone disagrees, and that's not kindness, like holding my boundaries in a very like I hear you but the answer is still no Right. Like that's not kind, but it's good.

Speaker 3: 1:55:22

I mean, I think that's kind you think that's kind Listen.

Speaker 1: 1:55:25

I'm disagreeing with you, I'm not giving you what you want.

Speaker 3: 1:55:29

Some Listen, I'm disagreeing with you, I'm not giving you what you want. Some people won't call it kind, but people have thought that disagreeing means like you know you're like angry or something. But if you told me that, I would not think that you weren't kind.

Speaker 2: 1:55:38

I got in a fight with a guy in a bar once and I didn't really want to fight the guy. He was this drunk Irish guy and you know I ended up having to punch him in the face because he just came at me. But I wasn't angry, I wasn't upset. I grabbed his hand, lifted him up, brought him over, got him a beer, you know. So that's kind of like I had to do it because I had to, like it was necessary. I didn't want to do it, I didn't have, I didn't hate him, I didn't even want to hurt him. Want to do it. I didn't have, I didn't hate him, I didn't even want to hurt him. You know what I mean. So that's kind of how I think of.

Speaker 2: 1:56:12

It is like I was still being a kind guy in that place, even though I had to do violence, you know. So, um, so, so that's but. But it's semantics, right. I mean I get what you're saying. Like you could substitute kind guy for good, good man and I would be fine with that I'm being semantical, for sure I'm just like it feels better for me, that's just my own now.

Speaker 1: 1:56:28

I think this is cool and like listen, the reality is is sometimes punching someone in the face makes it so other people's lives are better. Yeah, sometimes people need to know there's a consequence to being the jerk at the bar in front of everybody, which is really funny. Everybody freaks out. If you punch somebody in real life, in the movies, it's like yeah, like I'm like what I always I always got upset about. That's me me being a little my old warrior days, where I'm like you watch the movie, if some guy grabbed nicole by the butt, you punched him in the face. They're like, yeah, he deserved it. But in real life they're like you're a fucking psycho. They're like my girl, you're crazy, kick him out of here.

Speaker 1: 1:57:05

I'm like I'm a hero in the movies. Everyone freaks out, that's true. Yeah, really funny. Oh, my god, I can't believe you did that. Like don't grab my girl. So it's very cool. Well, it's been an honor. We've been on this for it's two hours now, so I hope you guys are good. Anything else that you guys wanted to bring up, or do you guys feel like this is a good first hangout?

Speaker 2: 1:57:28

no, I thought it was good yeah, I thought we hit a lot of good topics all right cool.

Speaker 1: 1:57:32

Thank you guys. So much for your opinions and thank you guys for sharing. If we get to do another one, I'll have andrea on with me and we'll do it like them okay, yeah that'd be cool. That way we could, we could have fun, because she would love this one, and so if we get to do another one, or even if we can be on your show with you guys and support you in some way, that would be a fun way too where?

Speaker 2: 1:57:50

where are you at?

Speaker 1: 1:57:52

we're in the chicago area, so we're okay. Okay, so like yeah well, you guys, what city are you?

Speaker 2: 1:57:58

we're in san diego. Yeah, if you're ever in san diego, if you ever have to take a trip, let us know we'll have you on the show for sure, we've been traveling a lot.

Speaker 1: 1:58:05

I got a show in vegas coming up, I've had to do florida, I've been bouncing, bouncing around all these different shows. So I mean, if we schedule something, we could just make it work yeah, okay, we would love that, yeah, yeah cool.

Speaker 1: 1:58:15

Yeah, I'll bring my baby. We'll have some fun. Very cool. Well, it's been an honor to hang with you guys. Go on, you guys better than perfect podcast. Go and like, subscribe, do all the buttons, send a bunch of donations, get to a Patreon or whatever, but make it so you guys are subscribing Anything else that you guys want people to go to to support what you guys are doing in your movement. I mean, I think that's it Just better than perfect. Yeah, like and subscribe. Other than that, it's been an honor to hang with you guys.

Speaker 2: 1:58:46

Thank you so much for today. Take care.