Cash, Cleaners & Community Media in Denmark: LWID S1E12

Welcome to Last Week in Denmark's official podcast.

In this episode, hear Journalist, Wizzi Magnussen, and Founder of Last Week in Denmark, Narcis George Matache, present this week's newsletter headlines, deep dive into some of the below topics and, this week, generally have a lovely chat about life in general!

TOP TOPICS:

• Results of the survey - “Last Week in Denmark Association”
• How will your tax money be spent in 2024?
• Entrepreneurs should have the right to a business bank account
• The end of the 1000 DKK banknote
• Cash - too much bother to handle for small businesses? 
• Moisturiser, perfume and other consumer goods 

and more...

Produced by Wizmedia

https://www.the-intl.com/issue

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website: https://lwid.dk/

🎵 Music,Jack Leatherbarrow @ Wizmedia: https://wiz-media.co.uk/

Transcript

Wizzi: Welcome to the Last Week in Denmark podcast. I'm your host Wizzy Magnussen and I'm here with founder of Last Week in Denmark, Narcis, to discuss this week's news and offer you extra insight into what's been happening and how it could affect you. Now let's jump in. Welcome back to the microphone, Narcis. We're a little bit delayed this week, aren't we? So sorry listener that we are delayed in getting this podcast out to you. But first of all, how are you, Narcis?

Narcis: Well, you know, it's, it's, it's later than usual. Normally we would do this on a, on a Sunday morning, but here we are Tuesday morning recording. Unfortunately on, on Sunday I was, I was on the road. You probably have seen if you follow, if you follow us on social media. We had the events in Billund and Esbjerg during, during Sunday, was quite of a crazy day because imagine trying to do two events, long events, two three hour long events each, in the same day and then trying to get to the places in time because it was a huge snowstorm on Sunday. I don't know if you guys have noticed at home when you're warmed in the bed or enjoying just looking outside, but some of us were pushing through the, the not so clean roads, let's just say, trying to get in time to events. Actually we got half an hour late to the first event even though we left so we are there one hour before to prepare, but we got half an hour late to the first event. But luckily the second event it got warmer afterwards and we were able to reach the place in, in good time.

Wizzi: It's been beautiful and snowy here and we've been winter bathing.

Narcis: Oh my God. I mean, what it means to have your life, eh. Don't take overly too many projects on your head or at least don't leave everything to the end of the year like I did. I learned a very tough lesson this year is that if you want to make a project, don't imagine that in the, later in the year you'll have more time. You don't, you just, you're just imagining things.

Wizzi: Top productivity and, and rejection of procrastination technique right there.

Narcis: Yeah, I mean I just, I, I'm looking so much forward to be done with all the projects because I'm, I feel like next year we will still do projects but I would like to be better planned because doing so many events like since 3rd of November to 9th of December we did nine, we still, we did eight events in a month. And we're going to do a ninth one already this week on Saturday, the last one in Skive.

Wizzi: Wow.

Narcis: So if any of you are listening and you're from Skive, I'm looking forward to see you. It'll be our last. It'll end with a blast. So see you there. See you soon.

Wizzi: Lovely. And perhaps next year you just need to remember those Ps. Do you know the P's I'm talking about?

Narcis: What?

Wizzi: Okay. I think its prior planning prevents piss poor performance. I think that's the saying.

Narcis: Oh, wow, I never heard of that.

Wizzi: It might, it might be proper planning prevents piss poor performance. I can't remember, but it's basically all about like the more you plan, the better it will be, you know? So.

Narcis: Okay.

Wizzi: And I don't know who said it, but somebody said it.

Narcis: That makes sense. It just, you have to be a good planning person. Or at least you shouldn't, because the reason why we haven't planned so much during the year is because we always had stuff to do. So you always like, ah, I will have more time next month to do something about it. Oh, I will have more time next month to do something about it. And then each month passes one after another. It's just like me and driving license. I started doing the school like a year and a half ago and I still haven't even got to the point to get my theoretical test because simply, yeah, yeah, I will have more time in the spring. I will have more time in the summer. I will have more time in the winter. It's cold outside. I mean, what am I going to do? But yeah.

Wizzi: Have you heard of the concept of the time benders? Yeah. My father in law actually sent my husband and I a TED Talk on Time bending because he recognized a lot of things this lady was saying about the time benders. Was very much like my husband. He kind of thinks he can fit lots more stuff into a certain amount of time. And it means if you're a time bender, you tend to sort of think, oh, I will have time for that. I'll have time for that. And you kind of. I can't remember. It says a TED Talk on Time bending. It's interesting. I'm not going to try and relay what it says because I can't remember, but I'm wondering if you fit into the time bender category.

Narcis: This sounds like a category of not so good people this time.

Wizzi: Well, I think this, this, this lady's trying to show the, the benefit of being a time bender. At the same time as saying, but these are your... It's, it's kind of like you know, we were talking, I think we were talking last week about morning larks and night hours and you can't actually, you're not allowed to choose for yourself whether you're going to be a morning person or a night owl. You are predestined, predetermined to be either a morning person or a night person. I think it's like that, you're either a time bender or you're not. So it's kind of a, it's just a characteristic of some people. It's not a negative thing, I don't think, just a difference.

Narcis: Okay. No, but I just, I just, I don't want to be a time bender because I have a feeling time benders want to do a lot of things and they end up hopefully delivering all of them. But they will be destroyed by the time the year ends and they will need this mandatory three weeks vacation like we gonna take. So guys, 17th of December is our last newsletter for this year, our last podcast...

Wizzi: Our last podcast might be a bit before then because I go to England on the 16th.

Narcis: Okay, we'll record earlier the last podcast, I guess.

Wizzi: Yeah, yeah. 

Narcis: That's fine. But regardless, we, we for three weeks you, you're gonna have some sort of media silence, it's, everyone will take a break from news, from information, from everything, will be like mandatory cure time to just spend with your family. Reflect over the year that has passed, think of cool ideas for next year. But it's too early for us to talk about when we are going off. Let's maybe talk about the survey. You know, you guys have completed a survey in, in November. October, November. And we are so grateful for that. I mean we had so, so many results and great, great, yeah great suggestions and whatnot. Because we are at the crossroads with Last Week in Denmark. Because you know Last Week in Denmark is not a typical business startup, less media startup as many of others are. It started as a, as a project to be, to help people who are deprived of information, right? So that's why the whole motto of it empower people with information. And today it's three years later it's still very much a volunteer run media initiative. We have never really sold anything so far and I mean we tried to sell this merchandise but remember that one euro on top is literally symbolic. It's, it's, it's. It doesn't bring any sort of real income to, to the newsletter. So, so now, now we just have to figure out what do we want to do next? Because obviously if it's. If it. If this project is bound around me or around a group of people, if those people at some point, for whatever reason die or, you know, they get depressed or whatever reasons, they lose their interest to do this, then the project will die. Right? So Ithink three years later, now we need to start thinking, how can we safeguard this, this project to ensure its longevivity, to use a fancy word in here.

Wizzi: Longevity.

Narcis: Okay, longevivity. I'm using the Latin version of the word, which is longevivity. Please. [laughing]

Wizzi: Okay, sure. [laughing] 

Narcis: So we asked the people, for example, how will they feel if we were to make an association, a Last Week in Denmark association, so that it will be the audience, the people who would actually make sure it survives further than me and the others who are right now volunteering in here. Because then obviously every year this association will have a general assembly. They will see, okay, are we still having people who are able to run? If not, then they will have to maybe, make committee, find a new curator who could be running the newsletter and continuing into hopefully eternity. And that's the whole idea. And we asked the people in the survey, we saw that 41% almost said that they will be happy with such an idea and they would become members of association. 22% were still not understanding what it means. I think not everyone really understood what it means to have a Last Week in Denmark association. And we also had obviously 37% who said, well, no, thank you to the idea of an association. Yeah, I mean, I think some people just like to read it. They don't want to feel like we are pushing too much responsibility on the audience, keep it on the, on the, on the people that, yeah, that are caring every, every week for the past three years. We were happy to see that because, you know, in Denmark, to be a proper association, people need to pay a membership fee. But to be honest, it's a symbolical membership fee because it's, it's like from 100 kroner to 250 kroner. In general, this kind of membership fees per year, not even per month. And obviously, as you have the results have shown, almost half are supporting like 150 and a quarter are more towards a 200 kroner yearly membership fee. I don't think it's such a big amount, to be honest. It's. It's like a pack of cigarettes if you're smoking or a bottle of rum if you're drinking or going once to the, to the concert, a very cheap concert though. Classical concert, in a music house in Aalborg. Very, very cheap classical with the student discount you could afford to go to to such thing. But what do you think? What do you think? Do you see Last Week in Denmark going into an association direction? Or do you think it will be better if it's more centralized, run by a smaller group of people?

Wizzi: It's tricky, isn't it? Because looking at what the masses think, it's all quiet, everyone's quite on the fence, really. In total, we've got about the same amount of people saying they want an association as saying there's only a few lessons, smaller, slightly less percentage saying clearly, no, thank you, and 22.1% still on the fence. So it seems, what you don't want to do is you don't want to sort of segregate people and have some people part of the association and then some people not part of the association and build a sort of divide of, well, I'm in the association. Oh, I'm not, you know, do you see what I mean? So it worries me slightly that there's a bit of a divide, the audience of whether this is a good idea. So I would say probably not yet.

Narcis: Okay.

Wizzi: But I don't know, I'd need to find out more about what it means to be an association because I also am interested in this because I was, I was discussing with you actually, wasn't it, about my, my mental health initiative, mindsanonymous.com which I'm relaunching in February. And you were talking to me about. This is the first time I came across this association so set up. I think you said I could turn Mindsanonymous into an association, but yeah, I don't know. What do you think?

Narcis: I mean, for me, I have run both associations and startups and businesses and anything you can imagine here in Denmark. So for me it's, it's fine. An association will ensure a democratic control of the, of the, of the project because basically you will have a, the people of, the members who could gather for this national assembly once a year, vote in a leadership of people, and then that leadership of people, they will have to respond in front of the people once a year with a report, with a financial report. They will still be constrained by a status. They will have to be like sort of constitution of the association so that the leadership has some sort of framework that, so they cannot get out of, out of it when they are performing their duties. So that's what an association is, basically ensuring that there is a say from the audience, there is a democratic control. And obviously I think you're right that there can be a divide between members and non members, because when you have members, you want to have more and more of them included. And, and to get them to be part of it, you would want to motivate them. And to motivate them, you're going to create some sort of stuff just for them. Right? And then some people have access to some things, some people will not have access. But one thing I can guarantee as the founder of this concept is that the newsletter itself will always be accessible and free will never be conditioned by being a member or not. So that much we can. But of course I looked at what the people would like to have different and for example, the members would like this exclusive events just for them, which is just fair. It's fine if they are a part. Any association you join, you are having exclusive events that only members have access to, like for example, board meetings or general assemblies and so on. Those are only members only. Of course, this premium content only for members that many of them also wanted, I'm a bit unsure about because I don't want to go the path that other medias in Denmark have gone where they put these paywalls and whatnot. I feel like people are not so happy with that. It's a bit of anger.

Wizzi: It excludes people. I mean, the very word exclusive means to exclude. So by putting premium content up there, people that don't have as much money will not benefit from as much information. And I feel like that's cool kind of against your entire power through information, empowering people through information kind of premise, which is the whole sort of tagline of the, of the initiative. So yeah, I don't really like premium content. I guess it usually does come down to money. I mean do you need it to make more money? Because if you need it to make more money to keep it going, then that's what you need to decide. How is it going to monetize? How are we going to monetize it? How is it going to pay for itself so that we can keep providing the free information? And then I guess it's, I'm sure you've thought of many different ways of doing this and I guess the association is the, is the Trump idea so far.

Narcis: Association is one of the, the potential features because we're trying to test different, different ways, obviously. There is also public funding way but obviously that it's conditioned by you fulfilling certain, certain, yeah, expectations. We are not, unfortunately we haven't grown to where we should be. If we had 50,000 subscribers, it will be a no brainer for us to get public funding and be able to hire the people instead of depending on them volunteering and then we will be able to provide I think a lot more information and content. Because right now imagine we are doing this in weekends and evenings and it still looks quite good. But imagine what people could do if they were working full time on this project. I'm not talking about myself. I will never be hired in Last Week in Denmark. I don't find that to be ethical from my side, but I'm pretty sure other people could. There's a lot of very talented journalists in the international community that could be part of this team. They will not join right now because obviously they live out of doing that. So they're looking for paid gigs, but hopefully we'll be able to find a way to pay. I'm a bit afraid that's, I'm pushing a lot for public funding because to be honest, I'm used to work with public funding. I have never been very good at getting people to pay for stuff, so... But if it doesn't work, because there is also the option that public funding says no to us. We are still too small. We have what in total all over roughly 27, 28,000 subscribers, right? In all the platforms. That's not a lot for them. I mean yeah, it is quite decent for Denmark, but it's not, it's not enough for them to motivate giving us at least 2 million kroner every year to pay for. You have noticed probably if you look at how they distribute the public funding every year, that 2 million kroner is actually quite a lot of money to get. So for us to hire five, six good people at least it will, it, it, we will need that kind of money. So yeah, that will be the, the one future. If it fails with the public funding, of course I will keep doing this until, well, mentally I break down but so don't worry about it. Last week in Denmark is not going to disappear next, next year. But we slowly, slowly need to start building some sort of financial capacity so we can at least have one or two full time people just to increase quality. Because sometimes I feel like I could do more and I would like to do more. I just don't have time for it. And there's people who are pitching to me good ideas but I don't, I cannot pay for them. So if we could gather some money some way that's ethical and it doesn't make people feel excluded, that'd be great. So if any one of you has good ideas, if you think association is a good idea, write to us on lastweekdk@gmail.com and tell us, it's a conversation. I think it will take us at least a year. 2024 will be a year when we have to figure it out because I would like it from 2025 for us to, to start in a new chapter as Last Week, because I think we need to have this debate and this debate should be between the whole audience. We all are kind of co owners of this project now. We have kept it alive for three years and I think we could go further. It's, I'm trying to see if it's possible through this project for us to do some sort of crowd...

Wizzi: Crowd funding.

Narcis: Yeah, crowd funding but more like crowd decision making where people feel like they've been part of how Last Week in Denmark goes forward and then they can take ownership of it. Because I feel like I'm trying to be more of a community based media initiative and not so much a typical newspaper where you got the news and you don't have much to say how those news were done, how did you get them? You literally just get them and that's, you're happy with it or not, that's your problem. I would like to see if we can build something community, right? And probably even get people to understand what it means, Denmark. Because this is literally how most movements in Denmark have been driven. They have been driven by people sitting together in masses and moving Denmark forward. And actually through this Last Week in Denmark exercise, maybe that could be the way for us to show people what Denmark really is about.

Wizzi: I like it. I think we should leave that there and discuss some of the headlines in this week's edition. What do you think?

Narcis: Yeah, I mean, I think most of you have had a chance to read the newsletter so far. If not, I guess you should definitely look at it because we are covering how your tax money will be spent in 2024. How exciting. Well, not really a lot because unfortunately there isn't much cool stuff in there. There is some interesting stuff, but not so many cool stuff. One thing that I would like to mention is probably one thing that maybe many of you never actually get to use the service fradrag. So if you have a babysitter or, not au pair, though au pair doesn't qualify, a babysitter or a cleaner or a gardener, you know, personal service. If you, if you buy any of such services, you can get 26% of the money you have spent on it back through taxes. And they have raised that from 6,900 to 11,900, which is quite cool because that means you can spend 40, 44, 40,000 kroner per year on services, then get 26% back. That's, I think it's basically reducing the price for such services.

Wizzi: But the problem I see there is it's, it's a bit elitist, isn't it, because you have to have the enough income to pay for something like a cleaner, which is kind of a luxury service to have, I think in my, in my world, having a cleaner come and clean my house or iron my clothes or babysit my children, I mean, maybe not babysitting children because that is quite necessary, you know, because we have to work as well. But it's, it feels like, well, that's great for the people that are already paying cleaners and service people to get that money back, but what about if you can't afford it in the first place? It does, it does not going to help you, is it?

Narcis: No, so, but it's, it's, it's meant to, to push people who can afford it to spend money on, on such services. That was the idea to begin with. So it was to stimulate a certain part of the population, the middle class, obviously, to, to spend more money on such services so that people who have less skills or they're literally unskilled could have a chance to, to get more orders and, and so on. So it's, it's a, it's still a redistribution tool in, in my opinion. It's, it's. Is it fair? Is it not fair? Of course there could be more other fradrags also for people who can't afford. But then again this is, we're talking about money from your salary. So how much money from that should not be taxed. So if you don't have the money to begin with...

Wizzi: You're not paying the tax anyway.

Narcis: There isn't much. Exactly. So, so you see the, the dilemma there. So, so this, this sort of fradrags are like benefits for people who get money, some sort of money. If you don't get any money, then there is no fradrag to begin with, you know. So, so that, that's why, I mean it's a good idea for the middle class. And to be honest, you, if you look at the newsletter, only 3.7% of the population is in the area where, let's just say this, they are relatively poor. For, for Denmark standards, 3.7%. It's still a lot of people because that's 213,900 people. So if you think about 3%, ah, that's not so much, right? I mean 3%. What's 3%? That's nothing. But then 200,000 people, when you see the, the actual amounts like does. If you could put all of them in one city, that would be the size of Aalborg, that would be the size of my city and literally everyone would be poor. Imagine such a city existing. I, I don't want to, I don't want to imagine. But the point is that compared to the general population of obviously 6 million it, there are not that many people who are poor. So obviously a lot of people can benefit from this fradrag in general and, and it's at least they gave something because to be honest, I look at the rest of the, of what they have promised - well, promised - that they have said that they're going to spend money on and there isn't much else that we could directly benefit from. I'm looking forward, to be honest, to this circular economy money. I think if any of you want to start a repair cafe or maybe some courses about how to teach people to do it themselves at home and extend lives of your, any sort of products or, yeah, in general, there will be grants coming up. I have a feeling there will be like in Austria or in other countries, there will be this money that they will give to you so that they encourage you to repair instead of throw away. So that, that should be interesting. I think, I'm happy we're going in this direction and I'm happy that it creates a new business opportunity for some people. I mean repairing, some people are very good with their hands, they're very good at fixing things. So now there's their chance to be relevant again.

Wizzi: I have many, many Apple product that's just collecting dust now because they all need repairing. I think I said last week, like, I refuse to throw tech away because it might, I might be able to get the, get the documents off it one day if somebody very clever comes and helps me. So, yeah, repairing instead of buying is good.

Narcis: Exactly. So that's, that's what, that's another good thing from there, another, let's just say relatively good thing is that if any of you are, if any of you are like psychology graduates and you would like to... you're like, oh, but there's not enough jobs for us. Well, don't worry, there will be more jobs from next year because they are expanding the psychological counseling in daycare and schools. So more jobs. There will be more job openings in that area. So there are some jobs for some of you, there is some jobs in data analysis in the elderly sector. So that there will be some jobs there for, for some of you, there will be some jobs for some consultancy firm because they want to establish a private patient consultancy, even though there is already a public patient consultancy established by the regional. For whatever reason, they thought that's not enough, so now they want to establish a competition to it. They want to make a private consultancy for patients to, you know, to know how to use their patient rights and healthcare rights and whatnot. That's interesting to me how the, I think that there is a bit of confusion because you have empowered both the Social Democrats and the liberals. I think they're trying to somehow make both worlds exist or coexist at the same time. So that's how you wake up with the same service being provided both by the public and by the private. That's an interesting...[laughing]

Wizzi: I mean, I, I quite like. It gives everyone a choice. It, it marries the two political parties together and builds a kind of coercive compromise from which to work from, which might keep people more together. I don't know. Do you know what I mean?

Narcis: Yeah, but it's still 10 million kroner that they will have to give to another entity to do kind of what is already being done. So I'm not sure about the spending part, to be honest. I mean, it's, it's a fun idea that you, you want to have every alternative possible. But we don't have endless money or public money either, because even though it's a private consultancy, it's still run with public money.

Wizzi: So I don't understand that. So how does that work? Because obviously you're paying for to go to this private consultancy. Where is that money going? Is it going back to the government? Back. Back to us who've paid for it to be set up in the first place through our taxes to... See what I mean?

Narcis: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Just because it's private doesn't mean we pay for it.

Wizzi: Okay.

Narcis: Both of them will be free to the citizen. It's just some will be run independently, some will be run by.

Wizzi: Riiight. Okay, okay. I wasn't quite catching on to that.

Narcis: But it means many people don't understand this. Private, public, the way it functions in Denmark is usually, because even if you go to a private hospital, in many cases you'll get most of your money covered already by the state, even there. So in Denmark, just because something is private, that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to pay the full real amount you would normally pay. Because for example, if you go to a private school, your public grant for education follows you there. So that means you would never pay the real price. You'll pay maybe 10% from the real price if you go to a private school. So in general, private, public, the way it works is more about who runs and who decides things. In private, obviously is the entity itself. In public it's obviously the state or maybe the local authority or the regional authority. So that's when you hear private, don't automatically assume that it means about that they sell. Obviously logically it will be that they should be charging people for, for the service, but in the same time they get public funding, so they can't really do that. So it's really, it should be interesting. I think they will have to find some extra ways because they will get like 10 million kroner, which I don't think it's a lot of money. So probably they will have to do some extra services which they will be allowed to. So I think that's one thing that private can do, is that they will be able to come up with extra things. Right? Oh, this is the public package that you get. It's... But, because we are private, we can give you some this, this, this, this. They can be more intrusive, more hands on.

Wizzi: They can create, they can create bespoke sort of offerings to people who want to pick and choose what's exactly what services they're paying for. So I mean that's a benefit of, of a private. Yeah, a private company that's the same as public. Because if it's, if it's completely public and publicly run, it kind of has to be one size fits all, doesn't it? for the people you're serving? Because otherwise it wouldn't be fair in adverted commerce. I mean however, if you've got a private entity offering similar stuff, they can fill some gaps for those that perhaps can, can afford it and might be able to be more individual.

Narcis: I mean talking now about private and private companies, I think there is some good news coming up soon. I know how many of you have struggled to get a business bank account. For, for some of you has been a really, really terrible struggle. I, I even had people calling me offering me 20000 kroner to get help to, help them get a business bank account. And, and I obviously I couldn't do that. It's, it's, it's not ethical and I wouldn't take people's money to, to open business accounts. But just to show to you the.

Wizzi: Sounds like a great little side business until you get, until you get thrown in jail.

Narcis: You'll not be thrown in jail because you help someone get a business account. But it just, I didn't feel right and it's not something I do in my free time. You see, Last Week in Denmark is already filling up on my, on my free time. But I just wanted to portray a little bit the desperation that was in society. Some people were really desperate to get their business bank account. Luckily Lunar and Revolut kind of released a bit of stress. But before these two services were, reality was terrible. I mean to start a business five, six years ago, it was so, so difficult to convince the bank to, to get a business card. You had to go with business plans. You have to convince them you're gonna make money. It was quite a struggle. But luckily now there is a law proposal saying that we have the right to a business bank account. Yay. So, no more struggle. The banks will have literally 10 days to respond to your request and give you a bank account. They can still say no but, but they have to motivate why, and the why can only be related that they feel like you're suspicious of money laundering. And then, still then you'll be able to appeal their decision to a higher authority and they will have to look into it to see, does it really feel like you're going to be laundering money. So in the end the banks will have a much harder time to just say no because they don't like your face or whatever. So I think it's a huge success for entrepreneurs and not just entrepreneurs. Associations are included in this law because it was also hard unfortunately for associations to get bank accounts. But from now on, we also have this right that we should, if we apply for it, they should give it to us. Obviously, it's still the bank's right to make this business account fees and whatnot, opening fees and running fees. The law cannot intervene in that, unfortunately. But the law can intervene in forcing them to say yes, which I think is great.

Wizzi: I feel like I was incredibly lucky with my experience of opening a business bank account because I sort of heard all these horror stories that it was impossible. And I actually originally opened one of the Internet bank things and however, I paid all these fees to open up sort of Kroner accounts and UK sterling pounds, sterling accounts and stuff like that. And then it turned out it wouldn't accept payments in Kroner. And I was like, what? So I paid for like three different pots or four different currency pots, but they didn't actually support kroner. And I was like, for goodness sake. So I ended up just going to a big high street bank, swallowing the high fees that you do have to pay to have a business account with the high street banks. But luckily for me, I wasn't a startup. I was quite an established business, you know, I mean, new to Denmark, but not new. I've been going since 2011, so I kind of, I had all the documents they wanted. I think that's where the real tricky bit is. If you're a startup and you don't have signed contracts, you don't have financials from the previous couple of years, you don't have all this stuff that the big banks really want you to prove that you're sort of real and you make money and stuff. I think that's when it's really tricky to open a business bank account when you're just starting. But for me it wasn't too tricky because I did just have to send them all my documents and I had it all. When it was all branded and had a website, they asked for my website and everything and CVR number and within a few days of the initial application I was sorted. So I think that's a point to make that it is much more difficult when you're just starting than it is if you are established. So if you're a business person moving to Denmark, it's easier to open up accounts than it is as a startup in Denmark.

Narcis: Yeah, I mean, clearly that's. As I said before, people were still getting business accounts. It's just you had to be very convincing with the bank. But now at least it's, it's, now it's at least it's possible. Hope the, the chance to for this law to pass is quite high. It's proposed by the government. The government has a majority. So I'll be shocked if in the next month from now we will not hear that it has been passed. But of course anything can happen. That's why I don't want to yet to go out there and you know, be like yay, yet. Let's, let's, let's wait for it to get passed and hopefully no changes to it. Because you know, sometimes some people can make amendments to water it down which, which obviously can happen. If the banks have a strong lobby and some politicians that they control in the parliament, they can, they can easily derail a little bit the law and make it not so strong as it is right now. But that was the talking about banks and money. If you guys like to keep cash at home, keep in mind that if you have lots of those thousands of kronas notes and you are in the lucky side I guess of having such banknotes at home, you need to get rid of them because they will be illegal from 31st of May 2025. So if you have lots of them, you don't have a lot of time to, to use them because afterwards, after 31st of May 2025 you'll have to declare them. Why do you have them? Where is their...how they get to you? What's their provenance? And. And it will not be a pleasure, a pleasant discussion to have. There is actually 23 billion kronas in 1000 kronas banknotes running around Denmark.

Wizzi: Do you think they're hidden in someone's mattress?

Narcis: I wonder how many mattresses are there. And by the way guys, guys, if you do keep money in cash year after year, I have the unfortunate news for you. That they lose value every year. Every year that you just keep cash sitting at home, they are losing value. That's just a common financial education tenant. Do not keep money year after year in cash because you have just lost percentages. I'm not sure how many years you had your money in cash, but let's say five years you have lost already more than 10% of it their value, which is quite significant, II would say. It's not little money. So make those money run. Don't keep them in one place. And especially that the discussion now in the society is that should we make cash voluntary? I mean in the sense that right now businesses are they have to receive cash, they're forced to. But the Denmark's national bank is like telling the politicians, hey guys, maybe it's time to go the Swedish way and make it voluntary. So businesses are not forced to accept cash anymore because it has become quite hard if you're a business and you have to handle cash. It's difficult, it's expensive to play with cash around, to be honest.

Wizzi: It's a pain in the neck. And it's time consuming as well, isn't it? Because you have to get that cash to the bank at some point. You can't just have. I mean, unless you are a giving cash and receiving cash sort of business and then you have your float. But yeah, it's difficult, isn't it? Because there's so many sort of arguments about keeping cash because obviously if you don't pay in cash, there's all these fees and your 50 pounds is actually not worth as much as it would be in cash. But then there's the argument that cash, the value of cash, doesn't last very long. And what do you think? Should we be moving, moving towards cashless societies? I mean, we are, but is this a good thing? What do you think?

Narcis: I think, I don't like extremes. Myself, I'm a moderate, so I. That's why, for example, I, I never liked people who are like, I don't eat meat ever in my life. I only eat vegetables. I find that to be disturbing. I feel like people should be able to if, if they can be vegetarians for 90 days a year, but one day a year, if they want piece of meat, they should be able to have that piece of meat. The same way with meat people. I only eat meat for 90 days a week and I never want to touch vegetables. I think it should be fine if one day a year you eat at least some vegetables. I'm trying to say... [laughing]

Wizzi: I think, I think, I think doctors might say you ought to eat vegetables more.

Narcis: Yeah, hopefully. I'm trying to say that we should never go into extremes. I think we, we should allow businesses to refuse cash if it's too difficult for them because simply it's expensive, especially for smaller businesses to run with cash. Obviously, as you can imagine,the businesses who would like to keep cash because it will attract people who only want to spend cash, they should allow to do so. So that in a way you make a world that's good for both sides. People who want to be cashless and people who want to have cash. Don't, don't make it either or other.

Wizzi: I completely agree. I think we, we need to be promoting as much freedom or feeling of Freedom and, you know, independent thinking and independent activity and independent behavior as possible within the constraints of safety and a happy society overall, you know. So, yeah, straight rules never, never go down well because you always get people that are going to fight against it. But giving people as much choice as possible, I think is where you empower people on an individual basis, you know.

Narcis: Yeah, because, I mean, even though it says it's mandatory to accept cash, you have met businesses where you cannot pay with cash. Be honest, there have been businesses where like, they don't even accept cards. They literally only take Mobilepay or...

Wizzi: The hot dog stand. 

Narcis: No, I mean, seriously. [laughing]

Wizzi: The only reason, when I was opening my bank accounts, they ask you, you know, how much cash are you going to take out in a year? And I basically counted the amount of hot dogs I was likely to eat in a year because this was before I had Mobilepay. And I told the bank that that's how much cash I was going to be getting out, in a month or something.

Narcis: That's a good way, I guess, how much hot dogs you're gonna eat this year? 1000. Oh, you have another problem there. [laughing] No, but I mean, it's all, I think the idea of moderation, it's always good in politics. Any prohibition style doesn't work. History has shown it again and again and again. Trying to prohibit something just makes it more attractive, makes people want to have it more. So it should always find a balance between restriction and freedom. Always find a balance between... Because right now here, the companies obviously are in the wrong if they don't give you, allow you to pay with cash. And they are risking a lot of troubles. So maybe we should not force companies to risk these troubles. We should allow them. Okay, you can't afford to accept cash. That's fair. That's fine. There will be other places that can afford, like the bigger chains, the bigger stores. They, It's nothing for them to, to handle cash. Let them do it. At least don't put small businesses at the criminal risk because they literally, if someone reports them, they're risking a lot of fines. And that's not fun.

Wizzi: Yeah.

Narcis: Because I don't think that the margins are very high for that hot dog stand. Let's be honest. I mean, I don't believe so at least.

Wizzi: Yeah. There is one more story I'd like to investigate on the newsletter this week before we sign off. Moisturize your skin with products containing a high percentage of fat. A doctor has advised. Now, the reason I want to investigate this story is because both my husband and I have very dry hands and we've tried so many different moisturizers. And I even went to the pharmacy because he wears gloves at work all the time. So he gets his knuckles literally crack and bleed. And I went to the pharmacy and said, right, I need the most incredible, you know, science backed hypoallergenic moisturizer barrier cream. And we got it and I've started using it as well. But since the weather's got really cold, it's such a struggle. So tell me about this high percentage of fat moisturizers and where I can get them from, Narcis.

Narcis: To be honest, I think this, the person that will be best to talk to you about this will be Punita. She's out, she's the curator that takes care of healthcare news. To be honest, the reason why I prefer that someone else deals with this because obviously I have very little knowledge in the health healthcare department. To be honest. Besides personalized medicine and high tech improvements or innovation in the, let's just say, health tech industry, I don't know much about moisturizing skin and stuff. I never use creams, to be honest. I, I like my, I was discussing now with, with my, with my family, like, what, what Julekalendar should we get right for myself? And I was like, I want to get one of those Nivea ones. They look cool, quite cool. And then they were like, but you never, never use a cream, so why start now?

Wizzi: Yeah, if you don't need it, don't use it. You know, the whole point of the skin is to effectively mask you from bad things and put up the oil from the hair follicles and you know, this organ of ours is supposed to sort itself out. So we shouldn't really need all these creams and stuff. But the more you use them, I think the more you need them.

Narcis: So it's like, like you become addicted to it. It's a drug.

Wizzi: Yeah. It's like I discovered that I was way over exfoliating my face skin because I was getting, you know, I'm far too old to have teenage skin, but I have teenage skin. And actually since I've reduced, I was, I was scrubbing it, you know, daily scrubbing it. Stop it. And I realized I actually watched a little documentary, one of those Netflix explained documentaries, and it was on skin. And I thought, I think I'm overdoing it. I'm basically ripping off all the barrier oil that my skin naturally produces to stop infection, dirt getting in and under and causing spots and things. And I've stopped doing it now and I'm now exfoliating up to twice a week and being quite careful about what else I do to myself. I'm basically doing less to my skin and it's actually getting better.

Narcis: Nice. So the idea here is. that less is better.

Wizzi: Less is more

Narcis: ...or none is best. [laughing]

Wizzi: Yeah. I think... yeah.

Narcis: If some of you never tried it to, to do such things or to use creams and you're already in your 20s or 30s, I think you should be, you should be fine the rest of your life. Don't start anytime soon because, just because they feel, oh, it's gonna make your skin better. It's not gonna make your skin better, honestly speaking. Just gonna make you addicted. And you're gonna have to spend some money on a different direction from there on. I never had to spend 1 kroner on perfumes, creams, literally. I don't use any such things. I think I find, I don't... I, I never even wear jewelry, watches, all this bullshit, you know, it's... It feels like it just makes you look better in society to have a better look. It's all wasted money. I, I have saved so much money by not falling down to this, to this path of, of... I'm not sure how to even call it.

Wizzi: Consumerism. You are not a consumer.

Narcis: I'm not.

Wizzi: Of that anyway. What, what are you a consumer of? What do you consume lots of?

Narcis: I consume lots of. Should I say alcohol? No. Okay. [laughing] No. I mean, what do I consume?

Wizzi: At least you're honest.

Narcis: I mean, it's probably books. I, I do buy often books. And, and that's it. I, I don't spend a lot of money. I'm not used to spending a lot of money. It's. It's not something I do. So I don't need a lot of money to live with either, to be honest. We are pretty, we're pretty good at spending. Let's just say I like spending money on food. I like food. And if I have the chance to eat good  food...

Wizzi: Eat some decent food.

Narcis: I'll pay for it. That's it. That's...

Wizzi: Yeah.

Narcis: I got to that point in my life where I appreciate food more than anything else.

Wizzi: Yeah. Which if you think about it, is entirely sort of correct, really. Because we need food to be alive and we are what we eat and all of that, so. But you don't really. I think you're right that it's. It's kind of an age, an age thing. You get more into the good stuff when that you're consuming and more selective over what you're going to put in your body, the more, the sort of older you get, I think, and the more settled down you get when you're not so stressed about something else that a pot of noodle will do, because you're just trying to fill a gap, you know, when you're thinking, oh, what would really make my body function well today? Oh, let's have some spinach. You know, I would never think of that when I was 18. I was far too busy consuming other things that were perhaps not so good form.

Narcis: Yeah, exactly. I mean, even now, the way I'm like my behavior of buying, let's say alcohol, because I was talking earlier, when I buy beer, I buy less. Way, way less. But I buy better, higher quality, more interesting one. The same with wine. I don't like mass produced wine anymore. I want something special. I don't drink as much as when I was younger, but I like the good stuff. Right?

Wizzi: We are going out, Narcis. Because I'm the same.

Narcis: Well, I mean, that's, that's just how it is. That's where we are in life. But I just want to say, even when I was younger, I was also not into this whole buying creams, perfumes, jewelry, any of the luxury. I consider them to be luxury items. I was born in a village. We had no, let's just say, influence of such things. You couldn't buy them at the local store, as you can imagine. So I never, probably never been influenced during my childhood by such products. And luckily enough I was able to maintain this village boy attitude in the rest of, rest of my life. So it saved me. Imagine how much money I've saved by not buying any jewelry, perfumes, creams or any other makeups. I don't know if men use makeup, but in case.

Wizzi: Someday.

Narcis: Yeah, exactly. So imagine, just try to make, I mean, how much money you spend on creams, the rest of your life since now.

Wizzi: Well, me, like for me, it's interesting. I've been using the same perfume since I was 18.

Narcis: The same, like the same bottle.

Wizzi: Around 8, around 18. Not the same bottle, no, new bottles. But I, I discovered this perfume. A friend of mine bought some when I was in New York for a trip with art college. And I was like 18 or 17. Anyway, when I was doing my foundation art degree before I did journalism, I smelt this perfume. I was like, wow, that's it. That's the one I want. And I've been wearing the same one. It's Hugo Boss, Deep Red. And I've been wearing that since I was 18. And I only put it on if necessary. Do you see what I mean? So I wouldn't just put it on here, sat in my studio. So my one bottle of perfume will last me well over a year, you know, because I don't, I don't wear it very often. Same with makeup. I actually haven't been able to wear makeup for the last sort of three months because I had this weird skin, eye infection business. And I've got really used to not wearing makeup now. And now I'm just having meetings thinking should I put some lipstick on? I can't even be bothered to do that actually. So I'm not really a consumer of things like that. And jewelry. I don't think I've ever bought myself a piece of jewelry. I think for ladies it's often a present. So jewelry, handbags for me anyway, creams, you know the way I discovered the one oil. I use a dry oil in my hair and on my face. And it was this little nooks little bottle that came in a sort of gift.

Narcis: Yeah.

Wizzi: About four years ago. That little bottle of oil lasted me about four years. When it ran out I got my mum to get me a replacement, a bigger bottle of it from England and bring it out for my birthday. So you know, I don't think I bought, I spent a lot of money on that special hand cream at the pharmacy. But that was for Mike. Apart from that, I don't really buy them. I actually used to make my own anyway. I used to make my own lip balm, my own moisturizers. I came up with a moisturizer called Cocolo, which is basically coconut oil, aloe vera gel and a few essential oils. The ones that are okay to put directly on the skin say like lavender. The only one that's allowed to go directly on the skin. But when you dilute it with the, with the oil and the, and the aloe vera gel, you can put tea tree and eucalyptus in there as well. And I used to make it for all my friends and family.

Narcis: That's, that's amazing. That's amazing.

Wizzi: One Christmas everyone got a little bottle of Cocolo. I haven't made it since I've been in Denmark cuz somebody in my household broke the blender that I use for the cream. So he shall remain nameless. But I'd like to get back into it again because actually the stuff that I buy is never as good as the stuff I used to make. I think it's because it's all got nasties in it, you know?

Narcis: It's a lost art. Right? It used to be that in, in families at least. I think maybe it's more of a French thing, but many families used to make their own, let's just say perfumes or their own creams and their own beauty products in general. And I think it's a lost art in Europe. It was not even 100 years ago that people used, well, many, let's just say more middle class families used to, to have this, this, this art within their family and, and hopefully some of them, some of it got passed down the time. But now it's just easier to just buy than to bother with it. Which is, I think it makes it more accessible. Yes, more widely accessible. But again overuse, it leads to, to, to overuse. Before then it was not much of it, but it was used in moderation. Anything in moderation, Anything in moderation cannot harm you literally. So, so if you, if you think about it.

Wizzi: I'm just thinking you don't want to know what I'm thinking. But I think, I think most things in moderation are okay. Yeah. [laughing]

Narcis: Fair enough. [laughing]

Wizzi: We need to be careful. We're not advocating for, you know, even.

Narcis: Moderation itself should be in moderation.

Wizzi: I actually really agree with that. And balance in moderation, like if you live a completely routine, balanced, moderated life all the time, that just sounds like it would drive me insane. What is the point in this? I need to shake things up. I need spontaneity. I need an immediate challenge that requires me to get very stressed in order to solve this problem. I kind of need those things. I kind of thrive off them. So I like that even, even moderation in moderation it's okay to let your hair down occasionally. I think, you know.

Narcis: Exactly. So it's, it's... The concept itself is a philosophy. Right? But actually I, I just got. Thanks to this Julekalendar I got now a book from Yuval Harari. It's called 21 Lessons for 21st Century. And, and there's some, some interesting stuff I would like to discuss with you in the next episodes. The last two that we have left.

Wizzi: Sounds great.

Narcis: Yeah. It really challenges our thinking for the future. So I don't know, let's see. Maybe we will touch some of it in, in the next episode. So stay, stay live with us. See you soon again. I guess we, we are kind of at the, at the end of the show. Right? We've been a bit longer today than usual, but I hope it's fine with you. We don't have yet a set format. Obviously we all aim at 30 minutes, but if you, if you're willing to bear with us a bit longer, you're welcome to do so.

Wizzi: Let's just pretend that we're testing out different formats and this happens to be a longer formatted one that we've completely planned. Obviously it's all scripted and all considered appropriately. Yeah, Believe me if you can. Thank you for today, Narcis. I think it's time to sign off. Is there anything else you would like to leave the listeners with to think about from this week's newsletter?

Narcis: Yeah, I mean, get rid of those 1000 kroner bills, right? Time to go spending.

Wizzi: We'll be back next week on your favorite podcast platform. Just search Last Week in Denmark. Thank you very much for listening and goodbye for now.