Yom HaZikaron & Yom Ha'atzmaut an Interview with Uri & Zohara Bachrach

As the sun sets on Yom HaZikaron, our hearts heavy with remembrance, we soon find them lifted by the triumphs of Yom Ha'atzmaut. I invite you to a powerful exchange with Professor Uriel Bachrach and Zohara Yaniv Bachrach, as they walk us through the stark contrasts of sorrow and festivity that reside in the Israeli consciousness. Uriel's recollections of fleeing pre-war Germany and their subsequent resettlement in Palestine lay the foundation for a nation's narrative, while Zohara's insights as a sabra weave the rich tapestry of cultural heritage. Together, we traverse the pioneering days of Israel, where the very essence of survival and celebration became entwined with the land's unfolding story.

The audacity and ingenuity of Israel's youth in its formative years are no less than the stuff of legend. Join us as we recount the adventures of ten bold young men whose cunning and bravery outmaneuvered their enemies, and listen to tales of clandestine operations that would shape the country's future. The Bachrachs share with us the kind of stories that are seldom told, from the secret acquisition of uranium in the Negev Desert to the creation of rockets that would defend a nation still in its infancy. In these accounts, we find not only a reflection of Israel's resilience but also a touching portrayal of the bonds that form in the face of adversity.

As we conclude this episode, our focus shifts to the wisdom imparted by our esteemed guests to the younger generations. Uri and Zohara offer guidance that champions education and technological prowess as beacons for the future, while recognizing the sacrifices of the past, such as the loss of Uri's soldier Grandson who dreamt of a world beyond the battlefield. This narrative is a tribute to those who stand vigilant, to the captives awaiting their return, and to the enduring spirit that is Israel.

Transcript

S. Simon Jacob: 0:09

Welcome to The Kosher Terrroir. I'm Simon Jacob, your host for this episode from Jerusalem. Before we get started, I ask that, wherever you are, please take a moment and pray for the safety of our soldiers and the safe return of all of our hostages. Living in Israel is different. At this time of the year. We experience Yom HaZikaron Memorial Day, in somber ceremonies held across the country. The sadness then normally comes to an end around sunset, with a transition to the celebration of Yom Ha'atzma'ut, israel's Independence Day. But this year is not like any other year in Israel's recent past. We're at war. We have lost since last October 7th, hundreds of soldiers, with over 1,300 civilian casualties and over 130 hostages being held somewhere in Gaza Due to continued rocket barrages from both Gaza and Lebanon. We also have over 100,000 civilians displaced from their homes in the north and south of Israel and south of Israel. No, things are not normal here, but with all that, we in Israel are hopeful and continue to work towards defending our country, defeating our enemies and making the best out of our lives. Rather than produce a typical podcast this week, I decided it more appropriate to focus on Israel during these two important days of the year and to interview one of my incredible neighbors, Professor Uriel Bachrach of Hebrew University, chairman of the Department of Molecular Biology, and his wife, Zahara Yaniv Bachrach, an ethnobotanist in the field of medicinal plants. An ethnobotanist in the field of medicinal plants, Professor Uriel Bachrach is a true partner in the creation of the State of Israel. He was a founder of Hemed, the science corps of the Israeli military, the organization Israel's first prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, pinned his hopes on to defeat the invading Arab forces as the British withdrew. He was given a special prize, presented to him by Prime Minister Shimon Peres in 2009, for his efforts in Hemed and his dedication and contributions to Israel. Uri, as he insists on being called, published a book called "The Power of Knowledge in 2009, detailing the creation of Hemed and stories of its development and achievements in the 1948 War of Independence.

S. Simon Jacob: 2:55

The following is a conversation with both Uri and Zohara about their backgrounds, the early days of Israel before the creation of the state, stories about Chemed and its activities, and thoughts about their feelings on this Yom Hazikaron, israel's Memorial Day. If you're listening to this in your car, please pay attention to the road ahead. If you're relaxing at home, please sit back and listen in on this conversation with two amazing people who had a front row seat and a hand in the creation of Medinat Yisrael, the State of Israel. This podcast starts with the sound of the Omezekaron sirens heard across Israel and the sound of a lone Israeli aircraft flyover. This is different from the sound of our air raid sirens, but some people might not know the difference and be scared by it. Please be aware this is just a Memorial Day introduction and not a reason to run to the shelter. Thank you so so so. Welcome to the Kosher Terroir I have here in the studio. Uri and Zahara Bachrach. Let me ask you a few questions first. First question is do you remember Germany from your youth?

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 5:34

Yes, I was born in 1926, and in 1933, my parents were expelled. So we left Germany. I went to school in Germany for about one or two months and I remember the house where we lived and I also remember the school where I went to. And actually I took the whole family to visit the origin of the family and we came and saw the house and also saw the school where I went to. I went to the school, the first grade, and close to me was sitting a young boy with Hitler uniform. I liked it, it was very picturesque. So I came to my father and said I would like to have uniform like this. So my father said it's not for us, it's not for us, so I forgot about it.

S. Simon Jacob: 6:17

Wow, I was going to ask you why did your family immigrate to Palestine at that time?

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 6:23

Okay. So my father? He was a clinician, a doctor. In April 1933, he received a letter from the Gestapo saying you cannot act as a doctor anymore because of your Jewish origin. You can lose your profession. So my father knew that he really cannot work anymore and he decided to leave Germany. But he didn't want to come to Palestine. My grandfather, who was also a doctor, he was a Zionist and he convinced both families to immigrate. So in 1933, the whole family left Germany and we moved to Palestine because of my grandfather Wow.

S. Simon Jacob: 7:08

They actually allowed you to leave at that time. They expelled you, so they let you leave.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 7:13

At that time they were interested in expelling Jews. They wanted to have a Jewish free Germany. So actually my parents could sell the house, pack everything, books, even the car, and to ship it to Palestine by boat. So at that time really they had enough money to get a certificate, because you needed 1,000 British pounds to get a certificate. So they had it because they sold the house and all the property.

S. Simon Jacob: 7:48

When you came to Palestine? Where did you come to? Where were you based when you first got here?

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 7:55

As I said, my grandfather. He was a Zionist, so actually he convinced two of his sons to emigrate to Palestine in the 20s, so one of them became a farmer and he had a farm in Kfar Hasidim. Sons to emigrate to Palestine in the 20s, so one of them became a farmer and he had a farm in Kfar Hasidim, near Haifa. So the first thing to do we came to my uncle and we settled there and my father looked around to find a place to settle. But the first thing we lived with my uncle in a farm.

S. Simon Jacob: 8:24

Kfar Hasidim.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 8:25

Yes, first of all, let's start in 1944. I finished high school, I was a member of the Haganah, so I went to a platoon corps of the Haganah and I became commander of the Haganah in Pelletikva and I was really recruited to the Jewish settlement police and in 1947, I moved from Petr Tegfa to Jerusalem and studied chemistry. Actually I wanted to study medicine, like my father and my grandfather, but there was no medical school in Palestine at that time and it was still war In 1944, I couldn't leave for Europe, so I started chemistry, which is close to medicine. But actually I planned to study medicine but I couldn't do it in Palestine.

S. Simon Jacob: 9:19

What were you doing at that time in the Haganah? What did you do?

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 9:22

As I said, after graduating high school, I went to commanding course one month and I became a commander in Petah Tikva for a religious group of teenagers and I trained them both in arms and self-defense. We had a training in the kibbutz Kibata Shlosa, because there we had concealed arms and I could train them with pistols, hand grenades and rifles. This is what I did in Petrach Tikva. I trained them. This was in 1944. Three years later these boys and girls became commanders in the army and they fulfilled very important functions. They were in Golani and other units in the army and they fulfilled very important functions. They were in Golani and other units.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 10:12

When did you meet Ben-Gurion? Okay, the story is the following Ben-Gurion looked at the past. He studied Bible. Even in the present. He knew that he was going to establish a state and he was very energetic about it. But he also looked about the future, unlike other leaders, and he realized that in May 1948, the British will leave Palestine and four or five armies from Arab countries will invade. So he was really very much bothered and he asked one of his assistants to make a survey what kind of manpower we have, what equipment we have to counteract the invasion and he gets the result of the review. It says we have about 30,000 potential fighters. Half of them were new immigrants who were not trained. These 30,000 potential fighters had 10,000 rifles, one rifle for three soldiers. The Palma, who had 2,000, had 1,000 rifles and the rifles were different types, different ammunition, no air force, no navy, no tanks, nothing.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 11:28

So he was really very, very much bothered. So he went to some of his advisors to do what to do. Aaron Kaczalski Katzir was one of his advisors. So he asked him what shall we do? So Aaron told him look, we are a small nation, small country, but we have one advantage brain, the Jewish brain. What we should do, we should develop chemical, military chemistry, apply chemistry to military purpose. Perhaps we can invade some new weapon by which we can succeed.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 12:08

So the idea was really very much attracted by Ben-Gurion. And he said how many people do we need for this? So Aaron told him about 20. And there was a discussion Shall we take professor, shall we take young people. So they decided we have to take young people because they are open-minded, they are ready to go to books, they are ready to go in the sea, in the field. But there are two prerequisites. One, they should have some military experience or at least three years in university chemistry or biology.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 12:44

I was selected because I had three years of university and I had a military background. So I was told to come to a meeting, a secret meeting at the Gimnata Ivrit, and our own kathir was there and we were about 20 boys and he said look, ben-gurion sent me you have to save the country, you have to study military chemistry. I don't know anything about military chemistry. Go up to Mount Scopus, to the Hebrew University, and study. We went up to.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 13:18

This was February 48th. February 48th. We went up to Mount Scopus. We found a book about military chemistry and for one month we studied what are explosives, gas, smoke and after one month we were experts in that.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 13:36

And this was the beginning of the military chemistry. Everything was top secret. Our own was called ON, so it was called ON Company. Everybody had a nickname Nathan, sharon was Natasha, uri Litar was Oli, my name was Abishai, and so we really produced weapons in Jerusalem. And this was in February, march. In April Ben-Gurion decided we have to enlarge the scope of the unit, not to have a unit of 20 boys, their own company. We need an army, a big unit, and we have to remove the unit from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv because all the industries in Tel Aviv, the headquarters in Tel Aviv and the training are in Tel Aviv. So we moved in April from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv, near Tel Aviv in a camp and it was divided to have a new unit in the army called Chal Madar Scientific Corps and it was divided into three sections A was chemistry, b was biology and C was geology and nuclear energy.

S. Simon Jacob: 15:00

It became nuclear energy. It was initially geology.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 15:03

This was in April 1948. And in addition of doing research, there was an operation unit. Whatever we did in the lab, we could transfer it into the field in the petrofield, and I was really a member of the operation unit and we did really very important functions.

S. Simon Jacob: 15:30

So where you created a weapon of some sort, you had to go into the field and actually try it and use it and see how it worked and whether it worked.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 15:40

Okay. So I mean, actually we can divide our function into two pieces. One I need to develop new weapons according to the request of the army, or something which is suggested to the army. There are two ways. And the second, to wait. The army would come to us and ask for support, or we would suggest we could do something which they couldn't do. I'll give you an example.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 16:05

There was a fortress near Kibbutz Negba, a fortress called Iraq-Solidarn and there were about 100 Egyptian commando soldiers there. They blocked the road from north to the south of the Negev. There was a junction of the road and it was blocked. So any supply which had to be transferred to the south had to be done by air because on the road it was blocked. So the army, for six months, tried to conquer this fortress. For six months, try to conquer this fortress, palmar tanks. Even air force for six months couldn't succeed because really the Egyptian commando units were well trained and they had all kinds of minefields around the station. They came to us and said do a miracle, conquer the station. So we knew the kibbutz is about 1600 meters away from the police station, about one mile, and the attack should be launched from the kibbutz to the police station and the attack should be launched from the kibbutz to the police station. We decided, in order to conquer the police station we need explosives, a bomb, about 50 kilo explosives, and if we put this bomb on the wall of the police station it will pierce a hole and we can penetrate. There was a question to produce a bomb, no problem, but how can we transfer it from the kibbutz to the police station at a distance of one mile? So we constructed a special cannon to deliver the bomb of 50 kilos from Kibbutz to the station. This was really a big invention because nobody ever developed any cannon which can deliver a bomb of 50 kilos of explosives to this station.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 18:18

I was sitting on the tower water tower of Galakba and I was arranging the fire Because I was a member of the operation unit. We were about ten boys and actually we had six bombs. The bombs hit the police station, pierced a hole in the wall and because of the explosion, the mines and the ammunition inside exploded. Wow, and because of that one third of the soldiers died because of the explosion and the rest surrendered. They left the police station. We were ten boys. We did what the Haganah and the army couldn't do in six months. We did it ten boys because we really had imagination and determination. And then something really unusual happened. Yitzhak Sadeh, who was the commander of the tank unit, sent some soldiers to conquer the police station, which was empty already, and he met the commander of the Egyptian army and the commander surrendered and there's an inscription near the wall tower of the wall of the attack saying the police station was conquered by Yitzhak Sadeh and no one was given to our function because of our function. The police station was empty and actually they took the police station without any shootings because it was empty. And really one of my struggles nowadays is really to have some inscription near the tower saying that in addition to its structure, there there were other units who were very helpful. So this is one example of operation which really required a lot of imagination and determination.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 20:36

Actually, ben Gunnar had the vision that we need rockets Because at that time we had hand grenades and they ranged about 40 meters, 50 meters, not more. So he said we need rockets and there was a fellow called Epstein, a good friend of mine, who tried to develop rockets and he studied engineering at the ETH in Haifa and he built some rockets of wood because he didn't have money to build it with iron. So he asked for money. He couldn't get the resources. So he went to the chief of staff and said I need money.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 21:20

And the chief of staff asked him what for? So he said for rockets. He said did you ever build rockets? How can you ask something which you never did? So he said have you been chief of staff before? You are a good chief of staff even if you don't have it before. So he gave the money and he built the rockets. And then he said I can hit the target two miles away from the shooting place. And they gathered all the chiefs of staff and Eze Weizmann came. He was the chief of the Air Force and he was standing near the target and he said I'm sure he's going to shoot, but he would not reach the target. And he said I'm sure he's going to shoot, but he would not reach the target. So they told him look, he promised to hit the target. So they removed him and they were shooting and the target was hit. Wow, so it saved the life of Ezo Weizmann.

S. Simon Jacob: 22:19

It was interesting. His comment was I think that you'll hit something, but you'll never hit the target. So it was crazy. There were some amazing stories from Hemed, from all the things you were doing at that time.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 22:35

Yes, I'll tell you another story which is interesting.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 22:57

In February of 49, 76 years ago, a scientist called Ernst Bergman came to Ben-Gurion and said we need nuclear energy February of 49. So Bengel said okay, do it. So Ernst was looking for somebody who can lead a study of this kind and he found a scientist in the Weizmann Institute called Israel Dostoevsky. He came from England, he was studying radioactive materials and they asked him are you ready to cross the Egyptian lines to look for uranium? He said yes. So he recruited two scientists, geologists, one from Jerusalem and one from Haifa, and had another group of support to accompany me. I was selected to be one of the guards. I was an expert in exploration. So we crossed the border, we went into, they were still Egyptians there and Jordanians there, and our disguise was that we are German engineers, we are going to construct a railroad and therefore we are interested in the trade. And actually we found uranium in 49 in the phosphates minerals, and we really extracted the uranium. And at the beginning of the Six Day War we had two bombs based on our uranium. And actually I'm the only one who is still alive, who was a member of the expedition and found uranium. And here.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 24:37

There is another story which is quite interesting. We need communication with the headquarters in case of emergency to evacuate us by planes. So we were looking for a signal officer. We went to the Palma and the Palma said we have a girl called Lea in a kibbutz store. Ask her if she is ready to join you to go with you, 10 boys, in the desert for unlimited time. They asked her and she said is it important? They said very important. Are you ready to go with 10 boys in the wilderness for unlimited time? Yes, so they brought her to us. We were sleeping in small tents and there was a question where should she sleep? And they said Uriel is religious, we can trust him. They trusted me and she trusted me and they trusted each other and we shared the tent for two months.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 25:40

And as I said, the result was that we found uranium and this was the beginning of nuclear energy, started in 1949. They asked me to Dimona to lecture how nuclear energy was developed and I could really testify that I was a member of the first expedition in 1949.

S. Simon Jacob: 26:02

Did you know you were looking specifically for uranium at that time?

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 26:07

No, Because for uranium we had the geologists and they went with the Geiger counter and whenever they heard some noise, they knew there was something suspicious. They collected specimens and the specimens were then analyzed, finally, and they knew exactly the location from which the specimen was taken and they could really dig and do it.

S. Simon Jacob: 26:31

You said that you went from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv. You moved. Hemed moved its organizational structure group from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv. How did you travel? How did you travel?

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 26:46

then. First of all, it was Shabbat and I had some really question whether I should go on Shabbat. They told me look, it's the last convoy to leave Jerusalem. Go New Tel Aviv, a place called Tel Hanan. There was a German colony of Baptists. They had a workshop in Jaffa, but they lived there. At the beginning of the Second War they were expelled to Australia and the buildings were empty. Tel Hanan and the Tel Hanan buildings, which were Germany by origin, were given to us as a camp for Chavez. We were based in Tel Hanan, houses built by Germans, wow.

S. Simon Jacob: 27:45

Especially because you were deported from Germany. And it's, you know, Kaddish Baruch.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 27:58

Hu works in strange ways in circles. But transport then was by trucks or cars or Armored cars, armored cars, you see, when we crossed the village there they were shooting at us, but we were in armored cars so we were relatively protected and we came from Jerusalem directly to the site of the camp.

S. Simon Jacob: 28:16

During this period of time, did you feel like Israel was going to succeed? Did you ever have any fears that Israel wasn't going to succeed? I mean….

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 28:27

Look, at that time we were ready to do our best. I had to fight against 200 Arabs, a convoy which came from Hebron to the old city. There were 10 boys fighting 200. We were not afraid because we knew we have to climb up a mountain and from the top of the mountain we see the promised land. So it's worthwhile to climb up because when we reach not if we reach, when we reach we see the promised land. So it's worthwhile to climb up because when we reach not if we reach, but when we reach we see a new land from above and this will be the Jewish state for which we have been fighting and we will really do our best.

S. Simon Jacob: 29:12

When you were in Jerusalem in the old time, israel wasn't formed yet, so the old city of Jerusalem was open to Jews as well at that time, before they were expelled, so you could go to the Kotel. Yes, we did, okay, and the Kotel was that little narrow.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 29:31

And women and men were mixed.

S. Simon Jacob: 29:33

Yeah, I see pictures of that now and I look at it and everybody seemed to be able to pray together then, Sure, so yeah, Okay, so my podcast is normally about wine. You were religious and you were in Jerusalem At that time. What did you use? Did you have wine? Did you have access to wine?

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 29:54

No, no problem.

S. Simon Jacob: 29:55

Okay.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 29:56

You see, in Ben-Yudah Street there was a wine shop, Carmen Mizrachi, and when the state was declared he opened the shop and delivered wine to everybody. He opened a barrel, so wine was available everywhere. Kamel Mizrahi had a shop, no problem of wine.

S. Simon Jacob: 30:21

So before that, though, when it was under the British, I guess before the Jordanians took over the old city, there was wine. The Jews provided wine to each other, and what have you?

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 30:35

No problem. You see, when I grew up in Petach Tikva, there were two wine cellars. When I grew up in Petach Tikva, there were two wine cellars.

S. Simon Jacob: 30:47

There were barrels of wine, and you could buy wine without any problem. Okay, so, zohara, I haven't spoken to you much until now, so I'm going to ask you some questions too. You were actually. Where were you born?

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 31:00

I was born in Tel Aviv.

S. Simon Jacob: 31:02

In Tel Aviv.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 31:02

Yes, ten years before the creation of the State of Israel, ten years before.

S. Simon Jacob: 31:09

So what was it like for you at that time?

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 31:15

It was actually great. I mean, we had a very nice childhood, Very nice childhood, Except that we in our schools we had a lot of new immigrants coming the whole time From where?

S. Simon Jacob: 31:28

From Europe? From Europe, yeah, most of them were European.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 31:31

European immigrants yes.

S. Simon Jacob: 31:33

So European meant where Germany mostly no.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 31:41

Germany, poland, russia, many countries, whoever could escape from Europe, came to Israel at the time, before 1948. And the schools were open to them. And I remember the whole action of having foreigners I mean children my age who didn't speak Hebrew, and actually we had a good approach to them. We knew that they were refugees and we were trying to help them, invite them home and so on.

S. Simon Jacob: 32:12

So when you grew up, your whole life, you spoke Hebrew.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 32:16

Oh, yes, wow, and my parents, they came from Lithuania. Wow, and my parents, they came from Lithuania, but they knew Hebrew from Lithuania, from Tarbut, from the Hebrew schools, and they insisted to speak Hebrew. So they spoke Hebrew among themselves, and I'm one of the few children of my age who doesn't know Yiddish, because they avoided speaking Yiddish. They know Yiddish, they know German, they know Lithuanian, they know many languages, but the principle was let's speak Hebrew.

S. Simon Jacob: 32:52

What was life like? I mean just like today?

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 32:56

No, no no, I mean, we didn't have much money and we had to protect ourselves against attacks. The Italians attacked Tel Aviv. We covered the entrances of the houses with sandbags. Some of them are still there. In Tel Aviv, we have some entrances with sandbags, sandbags, some of them are still there in Tel Aviv.

S. Simon Jacob: 33:24

We have some entrances with sandbags.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 33:25

Wow, and one of my girlfriends lost her mother during these years from an attack, from an Italian attack air attack.

S. Simon Jacob: 33:36

So the Italians flew in and attacked.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 33:38

Flew over, right Okay.

S. Simon Jacob: 33:40

You were born into a religious family. No, okay. No, you were a non a religious family. No, okay, no, you were a non-religious family.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 33:45

No, but we were very traditional. We celebrated all the holidays.

S. Simon Jacob: 33:50

And also wine was something that you had access to.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 33:53

Oh, yes, my parents didn't drink too much wine, but in all the holidays we had enough wine. We didn't know not much wine, but in all the holidays we had enough wine. We didn't know not much about types of wine. People at that time didn't really distinguish between quality of wines, so they got wine, sweet wine, which we didn't like so much, and dry wine also.

S. Simon Jacob: 34:20

You got dry wine as well, yeah not much, but yes Okay. At that time could you travel around Israel, or it was dangerous to travel around and you only went around Like, as an example, could you travel to Jerusalem?

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 34:33

Yes, yes, it depends. Until 1948, until 1947, we traveled to Jerusalem. Later it was a Convoy Convoy it was, but before 48, we did travel to Jerusalem and also all over the place.

S. Simon Jacob: 34:51

All over the country. All over the country yeah, so traveling around Israel at that time, before the state, must have been so interesting to see there were Jews, there were Jewish cities or villages. For the state must have been so interesting to see there were Jews, there were Jewish cities or villages around the country at that time.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 35:10

Oh, sure, sure what in the from the 1800s Kibbutzim, many kibbutzim. I belong to a youth movement, the Scouts, and part of the youth movement activities was traveling around. In every vacation the group went out and did traveling, especially by walking, climbing, really touring the country by foot to know it. And we knew a lot of the historical places and our guides were anxious to relate the present-day Israel to what's written in the Bible. So we had many biblical tools, so to speak, and they were all over the place. And when we went to a dangerous place the scout leaders called our parents for a meeting and asked their permission Should they go or not go? And ask their permission, should they go or not go? Because when we went to the desert Maale Akrabim, which was a very dangerous place, the parents got around and my father I remember one of my earlier memories that he was four continuing to travel. He said let them go. They have to know the country. Let them go.

S. Simon Jacob: 36:22

So were they exposed to it? Were your parents exposed to it when they first came? When did they actually come to Israel again?

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 36:28

Well, my father was 16 when he came. He came in 1925.

S. Simon Jacob: 36:33

So he was also.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 36:34

Yeah, he was in the Haganah and he was in Damascus. He went all over, he went all over, he went all over. There were no real borders at the time. And my mother came a little bit later, 1932. She was a dentist, so she practiced dentistry in Tel Aviv.

S. Simon Jacob: 36:56

What was it like being part of the founders of the country? I can't imagine what it was like to walk around Israel, or to walk around Israel now, after you had a role in its founding, and looking at what's happened here, what's going on here, it must be an amazing experience for you.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 37:23

I tell you, when we were children, I did believe in coexistence with the Arabs. We had many Arab friends, the doors were not locked and I sort of had an image that someday we'll have peace. But now I don't believe in it anymore. Not so easy, I mean. I would like to see peace, but I'm much more realistic and I see us and I see all our enemies around. It's really different now In that term, in that sense, in looking at the future. We were much more naive at the time.

S. Simon Jacob: 38:00

Uri. What do you feel like now? What do you feel like now? What do you feel like now when you travel to Tel Aviv or you travel to Jerusalem?

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 38:09

First of all, I mean we have a train fast going to Tel Aviv. We had a train in the British time but it took a long time and we have better roads and the communication is better, even though we have traffic problems, parking problems, which we didn't have before because we have too many cars and the roads are narrow. So there are advantages and disadvantages. But to get from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem in the past it took several hours. Now you can get by train in less than one hour. And also in Jerusalem you have the light train, which is really very helpful. So they are biggest advantages, Even though, on the other hand, we have problems in parking.

S. Simon Jacob: 39:01

How did you actually, you know, meaning to ask you, because I'm trying to think of what it was like at that time, at the very beginning of this, back in the late 30s and early 40s, or even in the middle of the 40s, when you were in Hemed how did you communicate with other people? I mean, no telephones.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 39:22

No, parents had a telephone.

S. Simon Jacob: 39:23

No parents had a telephone.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 39:25

My parents had a telephone because my mother was a doctor, but people didn't have telephone.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 39:28

First of all, my father had a telephone because he was a doctor and his phone number was 269-12. So this was his telephone number. So we had the telephone at home and usually every weekend I would communicate from Jerusalem to Petrach Tikva to my parents. We went to the post office and there we could really use the telephone from the post office. We didn't have telephone at home. And what Zohar mentioned about marching we marched a lot. For instance we had a march from Kvaritsyon to Masada through the desert.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 40:16

Wow, that's not only a distance, that's very arduous About 300 boys and girls, and we were attacked by the veterans on the way, and it was really a very, very courageous event. And then we camped in En Gedi and then we moved from En Gedi to Jericho. It was really very, very, very dangerous.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 40:42

There was no television either. You know, think very dangerous. There was no television either. Think about it. There was no television at the time. We didn't listen to the news the way we do now. We did hear the news, but not hooked to the news the way people are now. So you're not connected all the time.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 41:00

But we were happy.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 41:02

Yes. We're happy we did use the post office. We did send letters and postcards to each other Nobody's using them nowadays Inside Israel, inside Israel.

S. Simon Jacob: 41:13

you did that, yes.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 41:15

And the post office worked better then than now, isn't it? Now it takes. I got a letter yesterday from the United States. They took three months to arrive. They sent it to me the end of may, of february, and I got it two days ago. Yeah, amazing it's.

S. Simon Jacob: 41:34

It's really crazy. It's really crazy. Um what about people? What about friends that you had then?

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 41:45

Okay.

S. Simon Jacob: 41:46

Do you still have friends from that time?

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 41:48

Yes, Well, first of all, most of them are not alive anymore, right? But you see, I lived with a family. We had a room, two students in a room for a family, and the door was always open and friends would come in and have coffee and really the relationship was very close, very close, and we were not afraid of thieves. People trusted each other, right?

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 42:18

Yes, yes, there was also not enough for the newcomers. There was not enough room to live. So in our apartment we gave one room. Inside the apartment we gave one room to a woman who came single and she needed a place to stay. We rented a room to her. Now we wouldn't even think about it. It's within our own house.

S. Simon Jacob: 42:40

Right, but it was common.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 42:42

Many of our friends rented a room to people who came and didn't have any place to live.

S. Simon Jacob: 42:46

So how big was your family and how many rooms were they living in before you rented one of the rooms to somebody?

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 42:52

else I had two brothers. My mother actually practiced dentistry in the apartment In.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 43:00

Tel Aviv, in Tel Aviv.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 43:01

In Tel Aviv. One of the rooms was her clinic, and so people came and waited in our corridor for her to go in, and then we had two more rooms. Then I had to move away because of Doda Esther. Doda Esther is the one who we rented a room to her. It was not very convenient, but we all felt that we have to do it. Also, many of the houses didn't have elevators. I remember going up and down to all my friends climbing up the steps.

S. Simon Jacob: 43:31

No elevators, no elevators. Yeah, we've gotten very spoiled these days, but you know, thank God it's in time, for at that time I could walk up and down the steps. Now it's like we have the convenience just when we need it. It's very good. You know, it's Yom HaZikaron coming up in a few days. Stories from your book I noticed that there were because you were working so quickly and pushing to do things very rapidly. Unfortunately, there were a number of people who were killed just even when you were trying to develop things, so it wasn't as safe an environment as something in the lab today that they were doing. So you must have lost a lot of friends during that period of time and certainly through the wars we've had, and even until recently. I know on October 7th you lost a grandson who was defending the Israeli settlements next to Gaza.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 44:47

Nachal.

S. Simon Jacob: 44:47

Oz, yeah, nachal Oz. What do you think when Yom HaZikaron comes? What are your thoughts?

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 44:57

I'll tell you something. When I was studying chemistry, I had a partner who worked with me in the study. His name was Daniel Reich. He was the only son of a professor in the university. He was a member of the 35 people who went to Lamethe, who were killed on the way to Jerusalem. He was a very close friend of mine, the only son of the family. When they heard about it, I volunteered to the most dangerous place in Jerusalem because I think I had really to do what he couldn't do. It was Daniel Rye, the only boy, A schoolmate of mine, the only son of the family. He was killed with a 35. And it really touched me very deeply, very deeply. So I really had to volunteer to the most dangerous site in Jerusalem because of him.

S. Simon Jacob: 46:04

Can you tell me a little bit about your grandson?

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 46:07

Yes, can you tell me a little bit about your grandson. Yes, the grandson's name is Yiftach. He was a sportsman. He was really one of the experts in tennis in Israel and actually he was debating with himself whether he should go to a combat unit or continue as a sportsman, because he could really transfer or delay his service because of sport. So he decided to become a combat soldier, like his father.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 46:45

His father was in the same unit, so he went to Maglan and he was a good officer. He was very strict but very friendly. Actually, many of his soldiers came from religious background and he could really understand them because really he used to go to synagogue. He did bar mitzvah it is bar mitzvah on Purim. On Purim he did bar mitzvah. So really he liked to go to the synagogue and he was very friendly but strict and soldiers really loved him. It's very difficult for my daughter, shira, because they were very close, very close, and for me also. I mean he used to hear stories about my past and he would tell me a little bit what he was doing, because it was top secret. He wouldn't tell me.

S. Simon Jacob: 47:48

Okay, he was in your grandchildren. He was the eldest grandchild.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 47:55

No.

S. Simon Jacob: 47:55

No.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 47:57

No, no, no, kiki is the oldest, you see.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 48:00

Gilad, my son. He has two daughters who served in the army, and the son was also in Magran.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 48:09

He's 25.

S. Simon Jacob: 48:11

Okay, so how old was your grandson? 23. 23. Wow.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 48:20

And really about to leave the army. He planned to travel abroad.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 48:25

Yeah, he left a lot of written things. He was also a big thinker and only today at lunch time or at 10 o'clock, shira the daughter on the radio, she read loudly one of the letters that he wrote.

S. Simon Jacob: 48:44

he left a lot of thoughtful things, thoughtful this year is really different A lot of thankful things, thoughtful, thoughtful things yes, this year is really different.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 48:54

after October 7th, yeah, when how many 670 soldiers have died in it. And all of the civilians who were killed at the Ruby and the prisoners and policemen. It will be very hard on the day Yom HaZikah on.

S. Simon Jacob: 49:21

I have a question for you. What advice would you have for young Jews growing up outside of Israel today? Do you have advice for them?

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 49:33

Yes, To study, Because studies here on technology is on a very high standard. So really we can compete with any other country and if people come here they can build something for themselves and also for the country, Because we are really very advanced in technology, in high tech and also in science. So to come here we wouldn't be inferior to any place in the United States.

S. Simon Jacob: 50:05

What about for young Israelis growing up in Israel? Do you have any advice for them? The same thing, or?

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 50:14

I think to study is really very important because, first of all, you can have a profession. You need a profession and if you take a profession in technology, in science, you have a future for yourself and for the country, Don't you agree?

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 50:31

Dora, I tell you, before October 7, people tend to look down into the young generation and say that this present young generation is interested only in Twitter and Facebook and pleasures and drinking, and pleasures and drinking. But what happened since October 7th showed us that this young generation is wonderful. They are all ready to fight and ready to help the country, which gives a very positive, enthusiastic feeling to these young people, and they are connected to Israel. The main thing for them to still feel connected to Israel and believe in it, because it's the only place we have to live. I don't believe in these people who think now let's change the place and move to Hawaii or to New England or some other faraway place with no troubles. The only place for us Jews is Israel, especially since all this anti-Semitism that is now going up all over the place. This will be the only place for us. I really feel very strongly about it, don't you? Don't you Uri?

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 51:47

Look, both of us are scientists and we are well recognized all over the world and it wouldn't be difficult for us to find a job in Europe or the United States. But we would never consider this idea to leave the country and to acquire a job somewhere outside.

S. Simon Jacob: 52:09

Yeah, if you could go back in time, what would you tell your teenage self? Is there any message you would give to your teenage self?

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 52:23

First of all, to be careful, to be careful, but, on the other hand, not to refrain from doing dangerous things but to be careful, but, on the other hand, not to refrain from doing dangerous things, but to be careful, to be careful. I wouldn't tell him not to go to a combat unit, but be careful.

S. Simon Jacob: 52:45

Zahara.

Zohara Yaniv Bachrach: 52:47

If I had to go back, I wouldn't do anything different. I would go the same path, getting my own profession too, which makes me very happy with it, and have good example to my children and my grandchildren. I would do the same thing.

S. Simon Jacob: 53:05

Very cool. All right, I thank you very, very much.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 53:10

Very cool All right, I thank you very, very much. It was a real pleasure to be exposed to this kind of conversation and I hope really that we could really express our feelings to you, both of us, because I think it's important to convey whatever we have in our mind.

S. Simon Jacob: 53:32

Convey whatever we have in our mind. I'm in awe, to be quite honest, because I'm living as a neighbor to you for quite a number of years. When I started to do a little bit of research and look into your background, I was blown away. I mean, I know that you've done some amazing things in your life. I started to read excerpts from the Power of Knowledge, the book that you wrote, to see all of these people who we look back at the State of Israel as being the founders, and you were right in the middle of all of them and not only participating, but making a difference, and it's just amazing. So I thank you very much for agreeing to speak to me.

Professor Uriel Bachrach: 54:16

Thank you very much.

S. Simon Jacob: 54:17

We appreciate it very much In 1952, hemed, the Israeli Science Corp, was privatized and the staff and projects were transferred to a civilian organization under the supervision of the Ministry of Defense. In 1958, it became known globally as the dynamically creative Israeli defense company Rafale. This is Simon Jacob, again your host of today's episode of the Kosher Terroir. I have a personal request no matter where you are or where you live, please take a moment to pray for our soldiers' safety and the safe and rapid return of our hostages. Thank you.