A Toast to Kosher Wine: From Willamette Valley to Israeli Vineyards with David Riven

Embark on an oenophilic odyssey with me, Simon Jacob, as I engage with the astute David Riven of kosherwine.com. Together, we unravel the rich tapestry of kosher wines, meandering from the terroir of Oregon to the vineyards of Israel. Our opening salvo is a taste test of a Willamette Valley Pinot Noir, followed by an expedition into the heart of wine ordering dynamics and the flourishing expansion of a company at the forefront of the kosher wine industry.

Navigating the fascinating byways of boutique Israeli wine imports, David and I unveil the labor of love that brings these gems to American aficionados. Relish David's personal transformation from a casual connoisseur to a pivotal figure at Kosherwine.com, and join us as we celebrate the diversity of regional tastes—from the robust to the refined. We share tales of camaraderie with vintners, like the unforgettable Malkiel Adari, and sample the elegance of aged treasures from Sleight of Hand Winery, revealing the intimate dance of time and taste.

Concluding our session, we delve into the resilience of wineries amid global tribulations and the burgeoning production of kosher ice wine in New York's serene Finger Lakes. Through stories of community fortitude and collaboration, we toast to the ties that bind the wine world together. The episode is not merely an exploration of flavors and ferments but a homage to the artisans and enthusiasts who cultivate the soul of kosher wine. Cheers to discovery and the shared bond over a good glass—or two.

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Transcript

S. Simon Jacob: 0:09

Welcome to The Kosher Terroir. I'm Simon Jacob, your host for this episode from Jerusalem. Before we get started, I ask that, wherever you are, please take a moment and pray for the safety of our soldiers and the safe return of all of our hostages. The following episode of the Kosher Terroir is a fun conversation with a very personable and detailed general manager of kosherwine. com, David Riven. No-transcript. As they stock kosher wines from around the globe, David discusses his past as we taste some of their exclusive wines from around the US. He shares tips on when to order most economically and some of the special Israeli wines they are making available to their customers. If you're commuting in your car, please focus on the road ahead. If you're home relaxing, please choose a delicious kosher wine, sit back, and listen in on this surprisingly fun wine adventure. I have the pleasure to welcome David Riven to the studio here in Jerusalem. It's an absolute pleasure to have you here in Arez and it's great, so welcome. Welcome to the Kosher Tehwah.

David Riven: 1:55

Thank you, and it's always good to spend time with you, so thank you for welcoming me on the show Pleasure.

S. Simon Jacob: 2:01

Really a pleasure. What are you doing in Israel?

David Riven: 2:04

So this is my yearly visit. I come to meet with different winemakers, visit different wineries, see what's new and spend time with good friends in the industry.

S. Simon Jacob: 2:15

We're going to be tasting some wines, so let's at least start with that, so that we can get a little bit of wine into us, and then we'll go from there. So we're going to be tasting three wines, four wines, correct, four wines. So what are we starting with?

David Riven: 2:32

We're going to start with the Pinot Noir from Willamette Valley in Oregon. Anyone who likes Pinot Noir probably heard of Willamette Valley and may or may not have tasted this production. This is a kosher production made at Eola Hills Winery, which is a non-kosher winery producing some kosher wines. We were lucky to join with them and make this Pinot and let's taste it and see what we think it's really interesting.

S. Simon Jacob: 3:16

I'm very proud of it. This.

David Riven: 3:17

Pinot and let's taste it and see what we think it's really interesting. It's very interesting. It's a little rich and deeper than your Burgundy Pinot. This is the second vintage we did with them and I would say this one's a bit more rich than the previous vintage. But uh, I'm sure you know, over time it will change somewhat and even opening in the glass it will change somewhat.

S. Simon Jacob: 3:32

So we'll enjoy it over the next little while it's definitely uh, a deeper color as well than a normal pinot. It's very approachable and it's very uh, very nice, it's very nice.

David Riven: 3:45

It's also traveled all the way from the west coast of America.

S. Simon Jacob: 3:53

So yeah, it has the right to have some bottle shock.

David Riven: 3:58

Yeah. I still think it's drinking fine, but it's also recently bottled. This is the 2022 vintage, so it was bottled late 2023, so it's a few months in the bottle.

S. Simon Jacob: 4:11

So tell me about kosherwinecom. What's your role?

David Riven: 4:16

So I am currently the general manager of kosherwine. com. General manager of kosherwine. com, so I do everything from buying, sourcing, pricing I work with. I obviously have a team and my team does a great job, but I work with the different individuals you know from customer service, sales marketing, to just make sure that the wheels keep turning. When I joined in 2015, to just make sure that the wheels keep turning. When I joined in 2015, at the time it was just wine, it was Jwines. Jwines had purchased kosherwine. com and then, shortly after I joined the company, there was an acquisition of Judaicacom, which I was involved with very mildly, but then I decided I needed to focus on wine.

David Riven: 5:08

There was a lot going on Subsequent to that. We purchased or we launched a food division and there were some acquisitions and launch of our own meat division and meat company called Kosh. com, and then the acquisition of Grow and Behold, of our own meat division and meat company called Kosh. com. Um, and then the acquisition of grow and behold. So there's a whole entity of meat and and there's also a hollow and codecom, which is like food baskets. So one division handling food and the wine division plus Judaica.

S. Simon Jacob: 5:45

Okay, have you ever thought about beer?

David Riven: 5:48

I think about beer a lot. I drink beer. I mean the commercial side of things. When you think about what's unique about wine and the service that we can provide, is that it needs a Hashgacha, whereas beer. There's plenty of people who don't need the Hashgacha on the beer. I myself, I drink beer. As long as you know it's kosher so and you can get it anywhere. You don't need a kosherwine. com to ship beer to nebraska, right? Whereas wine there may be a limited selection if you're a jew living out in nebraska and you know we can provide the service that, uh, you wouldn't need I?

S. Simon Jacob: 6:32

I actually love the service because you have no idea how many questions I get from people who say I listen to your podcast, it's great, but where do I buy this wine? And I just go kosherwinecom and it's like it's magical. Is there any state you don't ship to now?

David Riven: 6:53

There are a few states due to regulation that we don't ship into, but for the most part most states we ship into. But also, speaking about beer, I do have to mention that that podcast you did a couple weeks ago, um with uh with that brewery. Yeah, amazing, that guy's, that guy's great, he is. Well, and I didn't even taste the beer, just that that I started listening to them like, oh, beer, okay. But I was driving and I'm like, okay, it's not about wine, and I listened to it. I, I was just amazed.

S. Simon Jacob: 7:24

You don't know how many people have called me and said you know, I've never even tasted beer before. After that podcast, I went out and bought some beer. I really want to taste it. I you know he's amazing. He's absolutely amazing person. But he's also looking to try to export to the U? S, so he's an interesting guy.

David Riven: 7:45

Israeli beer may be slightly different because it's not readily available everywhere. There may be the different regulations and then you get into the packaging like logistical stuff which it could be investigated. But he may be better off going through a traditional importer with traditional distribution. And I'd love to try those beers. I know I'm here in Israel now and it could probably find them somewhere. But I'm saying I'd love to try those beers. I know I'm here in Israel now and I could probably find them somewhere, but I'd like to have them readily available when I'm back home.

S. Simon Jacob: 8:10

I have a few of them upstairs in the fridge that you can taste after the podcast Amazing. So we'll send you on your way with a package. Perfect. No, he's great, he's become my beer whisperer. No, he's great, he's become my beer whisperer. I have a couple of people who are wonderful with wine For me Evia Tarkone, who's just incredible here, and he's my I call him my playlist guy because it's like with music there's so many songs available, you have to know who to listen to. So he's my wine playlist person and it's just great. His reputation precedes him he's amazing.

S. Simon Jacob: 8:48

He's absolutely amazing. You're here visiting wineries. What's the specialty of kosherwinecom? I think it's boutique wineries.

David Riven: 8:57

Right of kosher wines that are imported through traditional importers like Royal and Red Garden and Allied and River and everyone else. But then there's a lot of smaller wineries here making really small productions that it may not make sense for them to go through a traditional importer, either because they're not producing enough that someone could then take it and distribute it, or because they may need to charge a bit more and, given the three-tier system in the US, it may not hit the shelf at the right price. So you can go a little more direct by us bringing it in and selling it direct to the consumer and getting it on the shelf at the right price. So there's a small niche there which we decided, you know, to help winemakers here and give them the exposure. And it's been great. We've got great feedback. I love the wines, I love the people Like these winemakers.

David Riven: 9:56

They're fantastic individuals. You know some of them and you know one of the winemakers that we were importing. You know we were importing Gito Winery and Malkiel Adari, who was the winemaker, passed away just before Pesach and the Shloshim was on Friday, which was for the timing of my trip. It was planned to be here. I couldn't be here for the funeral or Shiva, because it was like literally passed away Thursday night before Pesach. I was like 1 am, I got the text, even if I tried to book a flight then I would get here in time for Shabbos or for Shiva. So I said I'll make a point to coming for Shloshim, and that was this past Friday. And again, great, great individual, amazing, like he. He's persistent, um, his, his wines were just fantastic. Approach of, very scientific, very meticulous and um, you know, that's just speaking of one of the individuals. But these all, all the people I deal with, very happy to to have them as friends. I stay with them, we, we hang out, so to speak.

S. Simon Jacob: 10:58

Hey, I love, I love that you're bringing these smaller, boutique wineries that typically were just in Israel to a greater exposure throughout the United States, because it's just, it's amazing. Some of these wineries are just spectacular, but they're very, very small and they would never get seen by anybody, so it's hard enough to get seen being a larger winery in the United States. There's so much distribution now. There's just so many different wines that it's really hard and I really think that you guys play an incredible role in getting some of these newer, smaller wineries some space. Thank you, it's no, it's really special. It's really really special. Um, how did you get involved in wine? Did you?

David Riven: 11:55

did you have a dream of wine, or no, and this, uh and I feel bad talking about that on this podcast because, as you mentioned many times, everyone on this podcast wishes that they can work in wine. I just kind of chanced on it. Um, I was um living in canada at the time I was. I grew up in canada, that's like that's like a desert for alcohol.

David Riven: 12:18

It's a desert for alcohol. Yeah, that's a totally different system than the three-tier system. But yeah, um and I, I knew that I wanted to move back or move to america. I got married, I lived in t-neck for a few years, move I was. I was middle of doing my school when I met my soon-to-be wife or at the time to be wife and um, she was doing her master's in new york. So we decided to hang around there and t-neck and um, and the plan was like a year later we'd move back to Montreal and I finished my degree. Anyway, long story short, when I did finish, we went back. I finished and, um, we decided we're going to move somewhere in the U? S and, uh, we decided on Maryland. Uh, her and my in-laws live there.

David Riven: 13:01

So we, we moved to Silver Spring and I was going to like I was, I was doing like a, I was self-employed, I was doing an online business, like that was kind of that industry was changing a bit. So I was like I'm going to look for something else. See where else, you know, I can make a living. And I happened to be, you know, spending a Shabbos at my in-laws. And someone mentioned like, hey, the guy from kosherwinecom. He's like you know, he's looking for someone. Maybe, maybe speak to him. So I said, sure, no problem. He sat down and the rest is history.

S. Simon Jacob: 13:34

So with Dovey, yeah, you seem to know a lot about wine. I know you've picked it up over time, I'm sure, but was there always? Did you like wine at the beginning before?

David Riven: 13:47

So I always drank wine, Okay, but you know, going back to my days in Teaneck, I would go to I can't remember the name of the wine shop, but it was. Now it was purchased by a kosher store but it used to be one of those chains by a kosher, a kosher store, but it used to be one of those chains, and uh, anyway. So I used to go there and, uh, you know, I'd walk in and look for, you know, putting, putting a case together for like 150 bucks, what could I put together?

David Riven: 14:14

Basically, like 1250 a bottle you know, I drank wine, but it wasn't like uh, very into wine. I worked uh at the time interestingly enough, another one of your buddies, uh, it's a few miler yeah, so they had the pasta factory. So when I was still dating, um, I was like I thought I recognized you from there.

David Riven: 14:34

It's very possible. Yeah, it was a very short period of time. It was a few months like I was just, you know, I was dating, and then I was like I can't keep on traveling back and forth from montreal new york, montreal, new York. Let me just settle in here for a few months and do something and then, you know, make a life for myself, continue dating. And so I found I found a job at the pasta factory and Sfiz very into wine at the time.

David Riven: 14:56

I remember once I had a few friends coming over for dinner and like he would always have like a little fridge this is before they had more of a wine situation, but he had a little fridge there. I remember there was. My friends came over. I figured okay, there's a wine shop down this, down the block. I can't leave work right now. I'll grab a bottle and then I'll I'll go pick up something for him later to replace it. I'll just go. Turns out it was like a back vintage of something and like I didn't pay. I wasn't like that back then. I wasn't really into like drank wine, but it wasn't into the extent of like what the vintage is and there's that. It was like it was a Dalton Shiraz or whatever. Let's say, for example, and I went and got another Dalton Shiraz and he looked at it and he's like, no, this is not, this is not what you took, but I'm like but it is. I drank wine, but I wasn't into wine to the extent that most of your listeners, or if not all of your listeners, are.

David Riven: 15:45

So, today though, yeah, so fast forward. So when I started working, I was more on the operations side, logistics, more business related. It could have been any product, but obviously you're around wine, so you drink wine every Friday. You go down to the warehouse, pick up what should we try? People coming in with samples, samples, and you're drinking.

David Riven: 16:06

So, through experience, it was only when I kind of did my first round of looking for these smaller wineries here in Israel and I came with Dovey and he's got a great palate and he's been into wine for a long time and we were going around and tasting and we really wanted to find like five wineries that we can bring in, like these tiny productions that aren't looking to sell containers, you know. And as we were tasting through them, you know, we had to make decisions yes, yes, no, no. And I kind of felt like guilty saying no to people without being able to kind of describe, you know. And also it's not just like what do I? Like? I'm not going to be the consumer of all the wines I import. You have to think about the, you know, the end user, and like, how do you justify your decision? So I was like, okay, I should probably more than just the experience of drink. I should probably go and study a little bit about this. That's what I did. I enrolled in WSET class you guys, offer that through your website.

David Riven: 17:06

So that's how that came about. So after I did that, I was like we should make this available Now. Level two is pretty straightforward and there's no tasting on the exam. Level three is a little bit more complicated because you actually get tested on. There's a tasting component there. Through the Capital Wine School in Washington DC, where I studied, I organized to offer a kosher WSET Level 2 and Level 3.

S. Simon Jacob: 17:31

So there's a bunch of people who have taken Level 3. And they love you for it because it's just amazing. So people have that. I actually tried to enroll in that Level 3 when everybody was going in and I hadn't taken level two. But there's a note that says you know, here's an exam, take level two, take this exam. If you pass it, then you don't really need level two. Go straight to level three. And I did and I aced it and then I applied, applied and they said, no, no, no, you need level two before you take level three. And I said, okay, but my goal was to take it with this group because it was a whole bunch of kosher people.

David Riven: 18:17

Yeah. So first of all, you for sure could have taken level three without level two. I started at level two just to make sure I yeah, I had a, you know, a baseline.

David Riven: 18:29

uh, level two is pretty easy, um, given the amount of time I'd already been in the industry and conversations I had with, why make, like you, you kind of, you know, get a lay of the land? Uh, which is really what W, uh, what level two is about. Level three was, um, I think it's difficult maybe for everybody, except for gabe geller apparently took it without studying which again with all the experience that he has.

David Riven: 18:50

Yes, you know like it's possible, right, you could do it if you have a good palate and you've been tasting enough and you read a lot about it and you're working with it. It is even possible to pass level three without studying, for not for me, I, I, I needed to study.

S. Simon Jacob: 19:03

Gabe is a particularly special individual. He has a memory for taste. That is just Phenomenal, absolutely crazy.

David Riven: 19:10

Yeah, absolutely, and that will never be me right.

S. Simon Jacob: 19:14

And it won't be me either, so don't worry.

David Riven: 19:16

I'm not worried. Yeah, so that's the story of the wine education.

S. Simon Jacob: 19:22

Is there a region you like more than others?

David Riven: 19:25

now I mean in the world in the world or in Israel in the world, I mean.

David Riven: 19:29

Israel is a little bit different with regions, um, so the the interesting thing is that I don't end up sticking with a particular region. Uh, it kind of like moves, you know moves through different times. You kind of I would say I exhaust, like drinking a certain type of wine. Then I'm like I want to, you know, a totally different experience. Um, I can't say for certain that there's any particular region that is like um, I always love all the wines from here. Obviously, bordeaux is pretty easy to say and burgundy would be pretty easy to say as well. Um, I tend to.

David Riven: 20:08

Right now, I tend to enjoy lighter wines than uh, than they have. Like when I started, I was like, you know, shiraz and cab and those big, bold wines. Then I'm kind of more in the phase of like, I want lighter wines and more aged and age doesn't have to be expensive, like we. We often get a lot of wines that are are just older and it doesn't have to be 20 years old. Like we. We had a Cote d'Aron that was from 2014 that I was drinking up till a couple years ago. Now it's out of stock, but you know it was six, seven years old and it's just like it's softer, it's milder, and you know that's what I gravitate to are towards these days I think the palate in Israel is also moving that it's milder, and that's what I gravitate towards. These days.

S. Simon Jacob: 20:45

I think the palate in Israel is also moving that way. It's moving more towards lighter, hot-weather wines that are not super rich and super overpowering. It's just. The problem is that you've got to have a feel for wines before you start going down that path, otherwise they just taste like they're watery, unless you know what you're looking for and tasting them.

David Riven: 21:14

Yeah, and even in there it's like some people have certain preferences, Like they don't like the gripping tannins right, so you can get that in a lighter wine. You can also get that in an aged wine that originally had gripping tannins. Right, so you can get that in a lighter wine. You can also get that in an aged wine that originally had gripping tannins.

S. Simon Jacob: 21:28

So I have a question for you, because you're in the business, so you know about things that are going on. Are there any special tricks or hacks?

David Riven: 21:41

I can't speak for the industry as a whole. We definitely have a fantastic sale that we do every year around Black Friday, Cyber Monday, and there's always great deals. The thing is that it's not always going to be across the board, so we get deals, we pass on the deal to our customers.

S. Simon Jacob: 22:03

It's not like.

David Riven: 22:03

We can always just get the whole range and we get deals throughout the year. So there's always something. But I would say Black Friday, saturday or Monday is a great time to stock up, and any other time we have a specific good deal on an individual line or a brand, it's a good time to stock up. It's not just like, oh, we wake up and today let's just put this on sale. We get a deal and usually it's coming straight from the winery. The winery wants to promote something. They go to the importer, it gets passed on to us, it gets passed on to the consumer.

S. Simon Jacob: 22:41

So now we're coming up to Memorial Day, is it a particularly good time to buy wines, especially for barbecues and summer, and what have you?

David Riven: 22:53

Absolutely. It's always a good time to buy wines, and I also barbecue in the winter, so me too, so it's not really such winter here, right, and Maryland's not as bad as Canada, so that's that's also, um, that's also good, but um, there they'll obviously be a memorial day sale. We've been running a, you know, for yom atzmut. We had a sale on israeli wines.

S. Simon Jacob: 23:14

so always, you know, whenever you find the things that you like that are discounted and on sale, stock up we're putting a link on the podcast that will pull out specifically Memorial Day wines for both American wines and Israeli wines, so you can take your pick and choose as you'd like. I prefer Israeli wines, to be quite honest, these days.

S. Simon Jacob: 23:41

Larger selection as well. Right, there's so many American wines coming out now these days that are just awesome, from Pennsylvania and what have you. We should taste the next wine, absolutely, because this is also another and I'm the one who's holding it, so you want to drink this one?

David Riven: 23:56

Sure, and coincidentally, all the wines we have here are American wines. American wines are American wines, american wines. So this is the Sleight of Hand Cabernet Sauvignon, or Kosher Magic Cabernet Sauvignon. It's quite an interesting winery out in Walla Walla, washington, and this is another example of a kosher production at a non-kosher winery.

S. Simon Jacob: 24:28

What's the? What's the grape in it?

David Riven: 24:30

cabernet, cabernet, it's a cab now this is a 2019, so again, here's a. Here's another example, and I haven't tasted this in a few months. But here's another example of something. Had you tried it upon release, it would have tasted very different than it tastes now and, where you know, a few years ago you may have found it to be too big and overpowering. Now it's a lot more approachable. Um, it may still be big. Again, I haven't tasted in a couple of months and we'll see where where it stands today. Um, but it's definitely developed very, very nicely.

S. Simon Jacob: 25:07

Is it blended with anything?

David Riven: 25:09

No, it's 100% cab, unless there's anything. I mean wineries can do that without mentioning anything but this is listed as 100% cab. So, if there's any other kosher magic in here. I don't know. Okay.

S. Simon Jacob: 25:21

It's interesting.

David Riven: 25:23

Are you getting something on the nose that would I'm?

S. Simon Jacob: 25:25

getting something on the in my palate that's saying syrah okay, it's possible.

David Riven: 25:35

Um, they do make syrah there, but, um, I don't think that there was a kosher syrah production that year because that came in 2020. So unless they took some from the harvest and threw it in there just before they bottled.

S. Simon Jacob: 25:49

No, I don't want to. Uh, I don't want to accuse them of something that isn't.

David Riven: 26:03

It's a cap, yeah, it's to me. Okay, good, put it this way. One of the tastings we had in February there was the Jewish Link did a tasting in New Jersey and we had a table right across from Amichai, from Shiloh, and when I had a moment to sneak away, I poured a glass of this and I brought it to him and I said here, just try this, tell me what you think. He smelt it and he's like this is for sure a cab, so I'll take his word for it as well.

S. Simon Jacob: 26:38

I know you're a general manager and that means that you've got a lot of people who work for you and do things. But I also know that you go out of your way to do personal things for people who need stuff done either for production people, wineries, people coming in. You at one time schlepped a whole bunch of wine down to some people in Maryland for me on a bottling that we did. That was separate. You're always willing to help people.

David Riven: 27:18

I'm moving up and down the corridor on the 95, so I may as well.

S. Simon Jacob: 27:22

It's amazing, but I wanted to ask you with regard to that are there any stories that you have of like crazy things that have happened that you could talk about?

David Riven: 27:33

Well, I'd have to think about that, and we can circle back if something comes to mind.

S. Simon Jacob: 27:39

How are you seeing the Israeli wine industry coming along? You know you mentioned guito. I thought it was his father who passed away. I didn't realize it was him.

David Riven: 27:50

His father passed away a couple years ago. No, or it was his mother passed away a couple years. Yeah, yeah, his mother passed away. I didn't realize it was him. Yeah wow.

S. Simon Jacob: 27:58

So that totally blows me away because he is such a special person. My first case of wine from him he actually I I tasted it at um one of the stores here and he gave me a ride back to my house and helped me with the wine to get it into my house and it was just amazing.

David Riven: 28:18

He's a special person yeah, and we were really lucky to have found him. It was actually after meeting Elie Chiron and we were like on our way out of his house, w and I, and he's like have you heard of this guy? And we're like no. And he like picks up a bottle of Guito wine and shows it to us and we're like, just based on how it looks.

David Riven: 28:41

I know that could sound superficial, but if you saw like how perfect and how thoughtful and and we saw the label and we're like, okay, how do we meet him? And uh, we already had a packed schedule. We were here for like 10 days 40 wineries, 40 meetings set up, and it was literally on our way to the airport, on our way to tel aviv. Uh, like we cut another meeting short, ran over to his house like, rushed through a tasting so that we can get on our flight and uh, you know, it obviously was impressive. His Chardonnay blew us away.

David Riven: 29:15

Chardonnay Le Bon he's using, uh, you know not, not American oak or European oak, it was or not. It was uh, uh, I'm trying to remember if it was hungarian or austrian oak and uh, it just gave such a nice roundness, uh, to the, to the chardonnay that that really made it stand out and uh, that was super impressive. And it was like that was one of the things that I loved with finding these smaller winemakers, because when you're a larger wine winery and maybe some smaller wineries, you really think about the end user, like what does the consumer want? What's, where's the market at? What do people, what are people drinking?

David Riven: 29:53

A lot of these smaller producers, they're thinking like more, like an artist, what do I want to make, what speaks to me and you find really interesting things there and they can experiment and they're not tied to like that.

David Riven: 30:05

Or at least earlier when I found that maybe later as they exported maybe they felt a little bit more obligated to be a bit more consistent, but at least earlier they were like this year I make shiraz, okay, next year I'm not. I'm not touching shiraz again, right, like you know, ellie shiraz made a merlot which is fantastic, then decided he's not using any of these, uh, noble. Now it's like carignan, petit syrah, petit Bordeaux, that's it. And, by the way, to go back to another, you know forgetting about region, but like I happen to really like Merlot and some of the best Merlots, outside of Bordeaux, of course, or maybe even, if you'd like to consider them but I don't want to offend anyone if that sounds sacrilege Some of the Israeli Merlots that I've had are like some of the best Merlots. So Elie's is one example. Yaka Voria makes the Place by the Sea both fantastic, and there's other examples as well, so Place by the Sea.

S. Simon Jacob: 30:59

I've never even tasted yet, because it's only for export. Okay.

David Riven: 31:09

Well, that's the reason I haven't tasted. But sometimes he shares those bottles with me, but I haven't tasted it yet. Okay, we'll have to get you a bottle. No, I'll, it's, on a palate it's. I'll give him a hard time, but yeah, you should.

S. Simon Jacob: 31:13

You should definitely drink it and taste it the other one um give out, makes a phenomenal merlot. I mean just an incredibly crazy merlot they're, and they've said that the j Judean Hills is the place to make Merlot in the world. They feel very strongly that it's the best place in the world to make Merlot. It could be possible. Yeah, yep. Do you ever taste anything from a gore by chance?

David Riven: 31:38

So, on my first visit with W here, we actually went to a gore and tasted them. That was 2017. First visit with W here, we actually went to Agoura and tasted them. That was 2017. It's been a while and I had not yet been in the mode of tasting to like analyze. It was more tasting to enjoy and I don't recall, okay, very much what that experience was. It was. It was an experience meeting, um, what's the name? Sh, shiki, shiki, yeah, in that little hut, right, but I don't remember the wines per se.

S. Simon Jacob: 32:10

So Agour's changed a little bit. Yeah, I heard the podcast. Yeah, so Agour's changed. And Elad, who came from Castel, and Ayal, who is just, he actually came from Seahorse, which is a wine that I always wanted to taste, and then I said, all of a sudden somebody came to me and said, oh, I have a kosher bottle of seahorse. And I went, wait a second, where do I get that? And then I found out that evita um has, like he bought half the production, so he has bottles of it and it's um, it's delicious, it's an incredible. It's a syrah that's called k syrah, kosher syrah, k syrah.

David Riven: 32:55

And it was like kind of cute from uh, seahorse that I love puns, so that's yeah good one well, yeah well, yakovoria, well, yeah Well, yaakov.

S. Simon Jacob: 33:03

Aurea, then you. His labels are great.

David Riven: 33:05

His names. It's fantastic, I know.

S. Simon Jacob: 33:08

There's a bunch of names that I've been involved with.

David Riven: 33:12

SOB.

S. Simon Jacob: 33:13

SOB was my definitely, and that's that whole production right. Actually, there's two people in Israel besides myself who were very much involved. Andy Sinton was the person who first said Yakovoria will make a wine for us if we want. And I said how do we do this? And Avi Davidovitz also got involved and the three of us were really, really involved, but Andy was the first person to uh get that going yeah, and my understanding is that that project is being discontinued.

David Riven: 33:49

I think 2020 is the last of the vintages and we knew that.

S. Simon Jacob: 33:52

We knew that that was. He would give us four years of it because we got it at such a phenomenal price that, um, it's really almost like his you know showcase wine and we were getting it for. You know we contracted with him to do it at, you know, thank God, a great price.

David Riven: 34:15

Well, when you prepay right, you take away all that expense and cost and upfront investment from the winemaker. They can afford to lower their price.

S. Simon Jacob: 34:24

It's funny, it's a funny story with that. We said to him that we wanted to do kosher wine with him and he said, okay, tell me what you want to make, because we initially were going down the path of him being just like a contract winemaker. But then we wanted him to get the grapes and we wanted him to taste the grapes, and we wanted him to taste it and we wanted him to blend it. And he came back and said, no, that's not what the price is for that. I mean, if you want me to be like the whole thing here, then it's a little more expensive.

S. Simon Jacob: 34:56

But he was very, very reasonable to us and when we said, you know, look, we want you to be creative, we want you to do whatever you'd like, and he came back and suggested five wines, five varietals, to blend together. And all of us looked at each other like what is this going to taste? Like this is like crazy. This going to taste like this is like crazy. Is there going to be any sort of taste? At the end of this deal? We bucked up and we just said it's yours, whatever you want to do, do.

S. Simon Jacob: 35:33

And the first tasting was actually downstairs in this house and we tasted the blending process. He came with all the varietals separately and he served each of the varietals separately and we tasted them and they were extraordinary. To be quite honest, he had picked phenomenal varietals and then he started to blend them just 50%, 50%, and then 30, 30, you know, he went through it just in pieces and it was the first time in my life I've ever tasted, um, what complexity meant and what, uh, it was just an amazing tasting. It was just absolutely awesome.

David Riven: 36:25

Like the different layers, because you're tasting the components individually and then you see how they're blended and you can pick out what is from this varietal, what's from that varietal.

S. Simon Jacob: 36:34

But why? Blending made a difference. So you tasted the varietal and you said this is great, I would buy this. And then, all of a sudden, he blended two of the varietals together and it was like so much more. And then he blended three of the varietals together and it was so much more. It wasn't detracting from it, it was increasing it. It was better, some was greater than the parts, yeah. And then we got to. So we tasted two and then two, and then we put them together into four and it was like whoa, you know, like you could taste the complexity because you tasted these individual grapes separately. Yep, and then the fifth one was just just it, just exactly what it needed to be able to really express itself, and it was an incredible experience, an unbelievable experience.

David Riven: 37:34

So that was a lot of fun for us, so the last of it is bottled and most of it's in the US. There's probably still a little bit more here that we'll pick up later this year.

S. Simon Jacob: 37:46

I think he's going to keep it going, or he might change the name.

David Riven: 37:50

Perhaps as of now, I think 2020 is the last vintage that I know of.

S. Simon Jacob: 37:55

Okay, it's definitely the last vintage we're involved with. Okay, last vintage we're involved with, but he had said all along I am definitely going ahead with this and you know he might change the name on it, but, um, okay, but it's uh it. Yeah, it was really special for each and every one of us there, between the group in england and the group here and the group in america, there isn't anybody who felt um that they, that they didn't get an incredible buy in that deal it was an incredible deal.

S. Simon Jacob: 38:31

Do you have any ideas for barbecues on Memorial Day, any ideas of what wines would really go with that, because you're a wine connoisseur now, kind of sore now.

David Riven: 38:46

So there's obviously different things that people like to barbecue, from fish and chicken to heavier cuts of meat. Everyone's different. And depending on what you would be barbecuing, there's different wines for pairing. So so I mean you can, uh, I always cheat on this kind of stuff, uh, when people ask for pairing, and I'm not sitting in front of my computer right now so I can't cheat. But you know, you just search wine folly, barbecue pairing, and you know, because it even boils down to like kind of the spices and the rubs, like if you're going to do a Texas barbecue, then you know these are the wines and if you're going to do some other, you know style, then it's something else. So it's very nuanced, not just down to the cut, it's down to the spices and the marinade.

David Riven: 39:40

Now I personally, in general I'm not very fixated on pairings Like there's obviously things that like just don't go, but overall I'm pretty. You know I'm not very particular. So if I'm drinking a wine and eating some type of food that is not a traditional pairing, as long as I'm going to meal, it's not offensive to my palate, I'll continue. It doesn't have to necessarily complement it. I'm drinking the wine for the wine, the food for the food. There are definitely foodies and winos out there that would want to get it perfect, and that's great. There's so much information out there. On the Internet you can even, even these days, chat to BT. You can put it down to like every ingredient that you're going to have on that dish, you know with the side, with the sauce and this and that, and you can put it in there and it will tell you exactly what wines or style of wines you should be pairing. And I will never be able to be as good as chap GBT on this.

S. Simon Jacob: 40:37

Do you ever, do you ever, do you, do you handle any of his orange wines?

David Riven: 40:42

Yeah, we, we bring in his orange wines. You know, even before we imported Iacovoria, I had come across some other orange wines here in Israel. One of them was from Binyamina. They had a reserve Roussan which they made in an orange wine style and you know, royal represents Binyamina. So I approached Royal and said, hey, are you bringing this wine in? I'd love to share orange wine with the kosher consumer and like, that's another little it's.

David Riven: 41:16

It's funny because like on, on the one hand, you think like bring new things to the market and like first mover and you're, you know, like you'll capture the industry and the market. The kosher wine industry is pretty slow moving away, like, and it's not even necessarily moving away, but it's like pretty fixated on those bigger, bolder wines. Uh, of course there's tremendous support for for israel and israeli wines, uh. But when you kind of get into the, the more niche, geeky wines, there's not a big following and it doesn't seem to. There may be like a curiosity and people may try it, but it doesn't seem like there's a strong following and this is like pet nat and orange wines and things like that.

David Riven: 42:00

But I personally love bringing those things in um, just to make them available, like if you're, if you love wine, you're curious about wine and like there's something that's and this is even beyond wine like in food, like if something's not kosher and you wish you could just try it. If someone can make this kosher for you, you know that would be great, and so we bring it in and try it out. So we found this orange wine and Royal brought it in for us and we sold that, but it was a pretty approachable and, you know, not like a very sophisticated. It was an orange wine and some people may have said that it wasn't an orange wine, but it was definitely skin macerated. You know, white wine, skin macerated equals orange wine. Then, with Iacovoria, obviously his wines are a lot more pronounced.

S. Simon Jacob: 42:53

The reason I brought it up is because if you want to taste orange wines, spicy wings are exactly. The two of them together are like heaven. A nice, cold orange wine with spicy wings coming out of a barbecue is like wow. I'm just telling you it's, it's an incredible combo and I've heard you say that.

David Riven: 43:19

I've heard you say that a couple of times on the podcast and it's definitely something I will have to try. Yeah, um, I happen to like his, um, his orange wines that develop floor. I also I really like those. Like even Dalton has a dessert wine and it's slightly different because it's a dessert wine, but it goes through like the Solera quote-unquote Solera system, right.

S. Simon Jacob: 43:45

That's an amazing wine, by the way.

David Riven: 43:46

All that kind of stuff. I'm like I can't drink that every day, like those style wines. But like, going back to the point of like you're drinking kind of the same thing over and over and then you just want to break, you want something different. And those are always great wines, and Iacovoria has a couple of orange wines that develop flora. So one of them is a Shmita wine. We've brought in very little of it because most people don't drink shmita um, but there's another one that isn't. And I I just love those wines and I'll even open them up randomly without any pairing. But like I'll people over and like, do you want to try something like, especially if they're like foodie, like people are into like the taste of things, um, and just like, sit like, sit around and drink it and just you know it's fun.

S. Simon Jacob: 44:30

Yeah, I love it. He has a few new wines that he's. The sweeter wines are amazing.

David Riven: 44:43

The dessert wines are amazing the energy.

S. Simon Jacob: 44:45

Yeah, and there's an S as well for us Coming soon, semillon.

David Riven: 44:48

I've tasted it and there's an.

S. Simon Jacob: 44:49

S as well for a Semillon Coming soon. It's a Semillon. I've tasted it and it's awesome.

David Riven: 44:56

The Me series. I think is what you were. The Me series is the next one that's coming out and that series.

S. Simon Jacob: 45:02

I don't even know if it's advertised or anything yet, but it's okay.

David Riven: 45:05

I think in Israel right now he's on the Shemitah Vintage right. I think that's where he started with 22. So obviously that won't get imported to the US. In general, most people are particular, you know without getting to the law.

David Riven: 45:20

I don't get involved in that Like. For me it's a 100% commercial decision, right. It gets confusing for the customer. It also logistically, like you want to move on to the next vintage and you're still sitting on shmita, and what do you do? And then like there's returns and you don't want it to get mixed up or wrong, you know, gets picked, whatever. Too many, too many problems, practically.

S. Simon Jacob: 45:40

You know how crazy it is actually. You know how crazy it is when you've got wines that are shmita wines that you've handled. When you go into the next vintage and you have to top up the barrels of the Shemitah wines that are still sitting there. Anything you put into them is gone. It's Shemitah, so it's like, and you can't use the Shemitah wine to top up the other barrels either. So it's like. It's really very. It's much more complicated than people realize. It's not simply well, you know whatever.

David Riven: 46:24

Yeah, the whole kosher wine industry right, Because you're talking about harvest during Chagim, right Right around the holidays. It's really crazy.

S. Simon Jacob: 46:36

So what are we drinking? What's this last one? So right now we have.

David Riven: 46:39

This is the last of the dry reds. This is also from Sleight of Hand Cellars in Walla Walla Washington. This is the Lewis Vineyard Syrah. Lewis Vineyard kind of has a name for itself. People may know it. Syrah definitely grows very well in Walla Walla Washington. Sleight of Hand constantly gets great scores on their cab and their Syrah like really in the 90s, and it's another fantastic wine.

David Riven: 47:14

This is delicious, crazy, and both these wines are suitable for aging. I know you asked me earlier about stories. I think it was in relation to logistics and at the time.

David Riven: 47:27

I said I'll have to think about a story, but I may need to preface this by saying, like, if you've watched the movie Forrest Gump, one of the amazing things in the movie is that he seems to be at every monumental historical occasion throughout his life. Right, he's always like, wherever something is happening, something is happening and lahavdalal fadal is, as they say. So I'm near the man who is that, like every monumental wine event anywhere in the world, that seems to be like I remember this is you know, you, me, you, you gotta be the host of this podcast.

David Riven: 48:03

You gotta be kidding. I remember well, first of all, the two events, but you know the, the highlight probably and this was this was for me like and I don't know if I'll ever top it, but like the highlight of my any tasting wait, yes was in connecticut close. It was in, wasn't it? Oh, wasn't it in connecticut, it was in new rochelle. New rochelle, yeah, but yes, but yes, the it'm sorry.

S. Simon Jacob: 48:30

But yes, the seller was from Connecticut, it was in New Rochelle, it was in New Rochelle. That was the most outrageous tasting I have ever been in in my life.

David Riven: 48:40

So for me it was. I expected you to have been, you know, with your experience. For me that was like, first of all, I had just my wife had just had our youngest daughter a week before that. But we had this whole thing planned out where someone wanted to sell the wines that they had been professionally storing, and they had large quantities, and they wanted to donate the money to charity. And they asked us if we can help liquidate the wines or sell the wines and and have the, you know, give them the money and it will go to charity. So we, we said sure. However, I don't want to sell wine that like to my customers and charge them x amount and no idea if we can sample. And because they had such large quantities of each wine, I think there were like 30 to 40 bottles of, I mean we're going. This was in 2017, this was in may 2017, and the wines were anywhere from like mid 90s to early 2000s, and france, california and israel. Right, there was like oh, three5, or 04.

S. Simon Jacob: 49:48

All the most incredible wines you could ever Louisville and I got it right.

David Riven: 49:54

It was a fee. And Herzog, those Chalk Hills, all the original Chalk Hills, and then some things, like I mean at that point I was only in the industry for two years but like wines I'd never even heard of, like Chateau Fusel, like for me that was a 2005. Like that was my favorite wine of the evening, some of those things that you're just tasting and everything like in its prime drinking window, and it was one of the most amazing tastings. But sure enough, you were there.

S. Simon Jacob: 50:22

That was absolutely absolute chance and I think Jay offered me to come and I said, yes, I couldn't get it out fast enough, but, um, I didn't even know what I was walking into. I don't think anybody really understood what they were walking into, I think we had.

David Riven: 50:45

we had catalogued what they had and we said, okay, here's a list. But we didn't know where the wines would be holding. And I think of everything we tasted, I think there was like one wine, like it was a white bubbly or something. We were like, yeah, it was dead and we obviously didn't take that wine.

S. Simon Jacob: 50:59

But all the wines were just spectacular, fantastic. They're all gone.

David Riven: 51:03

We've sold through that. I mean there may be like a few bottles of one of the wines left that we took, because then subsequently, subsequently, we took another batch, like because first they started they gave us some and then we took some more down the line and it's just um. You know it's, it's not too many people were into cellaring wines. I know you, you've you've been cellaring wines forever, but not too many people were and there's just not enough perhaps of these aged wines that are around and I think now it's become a lot more common. There's these different chats and groups and people exchanging and sharing in RCCs that Yossi Horowitz spearheaded, and there's all these other opportunities. But these things are, to my knowledge and again, I haven't been in a wino for a long time but these things seem to have evolved over the last 10, 15 years.

David Riven: 51:50

Yeah, totally a long time but, like these things seem to have evolved over the last 10, 15 years. Yeah, totally, and, like some, we were talking about productions from you know, 30 years ago. Yeah, you know, so, uh, so that was a really, really special event. And the second one, um, this was actually made more special by, uh, by you, and by your, me, you the Rothschild anniversary, like Royal celebrating the 25th anniversary of Rothschild, which I think they actually celebrated 30 years from Right, and then you had brought all these back vintages of the Baron Rothschild.

S. Simon Jacob: 52:22

The original vintages.

David Riven: 52:24

The original, but a slew of them from the 80s into 90s.

S. Simon Jacob: 52:26

They wouldn't let me. They first said, hey look, um, thank you very much, but we're not taking them out because who knows what they're going to taste like. So I said to jay jay, let's go in the back room, let's open one or two of them, and if they're any good we'll bring them out, and if they're not good we won't discuss it. I I'm not trying to shoot, you know, put a pin in their balloon, but the 86 Vintage, which was the original, was spectacular.

S. Simon Jacob: 53:00

It was just very drinkable and it was look, it wasn't at peak, but it wasn't undrinkable by any means shape or form, and actually it was quite enjoyable.

David Riven: 53:10

So that was a lot of fun, and then it was also fun watching other people come and tasting, because everybody has a slightly different palate and some people may like this vintage better, and especially when you're talking about wines that are at this point, this was February 2020. So you're talking about 34 years, 30 years, I think some the wines were. I think some of the favorites most people gravitated were like the mid to late 90s. I think some of those vintages and I know we didn't have every single vintage there, I just remember some odds and ends from but the 86,.

S. Simon Jacob: 53:42

What blew my mind was the cellar master from Rothschild said whoa, he just it made an impression on him. He was so impressed with it, and it was. We had a lot of interesting people at that tasting, so it was. That was a Herzog thing where they took a non-kosher restaurant and made it kosher for the night and they hired some famous chef, I don't remember, right, and it was just uh crazy awesome tasting yeah it was another crazy awesome tasting.

David Riven: 54:15

It was crazy special because, uh because, you afforded all those wines. I had. No, it wasn't a lot I it's just that I happened to have them from the time I just happened to have wines from the 80s and 90s lying around in my cellar that were perfectly stored for 30 plus years. Yes, here, why don't you enjoy? But who's going to drink?

S. Simon Jacob: 54:31

them. You know the trouble with once you have them. Yossi Horowitz has done me an incredible favor. In the past I had these wines and you're always looking for an opportunity to drink them. But who do you drink them with? You know you're not going to sit home and open a bottle of something that's 20 years old that you've stored for all of these years to drink by yourself. So having the RCCs suddenly opened an opportunity to actually sit down with other people who liked wine, I think he did more for the kosher wine high-end kosher wine business than anybody on earth. Yessi, he's just an amazing person from that perspective and he's an amazing person anyway. But it was a lot of fun. That's why I felt like I've been saving these bottles forever, like this is the time to drink them. When is it going to be better?

David Riven: 55:29

The perfect time to drink them. Yeah, it going to be better. The perfect time yeah, it was amazing. It was amazing evening, amazing wines, yeah, it was a real special moment. So thank you Like. Two of my best wine experiences were shared with you.

S. Simon Jacob: 55:41

Wow and well you're the one who facilitated the first one.

David Riven: 55:48

It was a group, group, group effort, so the last one we're tasting is the Sheldrake Point Gewurztraminer Ice Wine. This is a wine produced in the Finger Lakes, so a lot of your listeners may be familiar with Ari Lachsbeiser, who was featured on one of your podcasts about traditions and drinking for Pesach about traditions and drinking for Pesach.

David Riven: 56:11

So Ari is a serious wino, an educated, serious wino. He's also WSET and that's actually one of the that kind of helped me get into it. He was already doing it and I kind of asked him some questions about what's the approach and stuff and he was happy. You know, he was happy to handhold me and kind of guide me along the way until I got up on my own two feet there, Um, but uh, he's, he's always been interested in producing kosher wines, uh, and specifically at not kosher wineries, you know, finding great productions and trying to make a kosher wine there. And he was producing a wine, or he produced a wine at Sheldrake Point, two wines a Gewurztraminer and a Riesling in 2020. I want to say it was the first vintage, 2020. It could be 2021. And when he was after he was done producing it. You know, because I always like to say the easy thing is to produce wine, to buy wine, that's the easy part. Selling, it is always the hard part.

S. Simon Jacob: 57:22

The challenge.

David Riven: 57:24

It's. You know, I come to Israel, people are like, oh, why don't you buy? Why don't you go see this winery and buy their wine? I'm like, oh, why don't you buy? Why don't you go see this winery and buy their wine? I'm like that's the easy part, Like I can get, you can buy it. But then what do you do with it? Um, so, after he was done producing it, he needed to find a home for it and he, he approached us about taking, uh, taking the production, which we did. And, um, you know, we built the relationship with the, with the winery, together with Ari and uh the down the line. We were like what else could they, could they produce? What else do they produce? What else grows well in the Finger Lakes? You know, they had, they had some Pinot Noir, they had some Rosé and different things, and this, this came up as an option and I was like perfect, like there are no kosher ice wines that are from the finger, legs that are ice wines that are really right, um, I mean there, there there was.

David Riven: 58:15

You know, dolorosa makes some organic ones in, uh, from austria. Um, and there may be some that I'm there's a couple that I don't know. There's a couple in israel, but the israeli ones are not right, they're not, they're not really ice wines.

David Riven: 58:28

So I was like this is again. You know, this is great Something to offer the kosher consumer. And he got them to agree to produce an ice wine and we actually went down there on the day of bottling and we bottled it with them and you can see the little kosher sticker on there. I mean the kosher, you know, the hashgachah is on the back label as well, but we had to apply the sticker to every single capsule.

David Riven: 59:00

So we were like standing there as their bottles are coming out, we're like sticking these things on, and it was a lot of fun and we got to celebrate the bottling in a very meaningful and personal way. And I really enjoy going to these places and seeing the environment in which these grapes are growing and even the physical buildings, the wineries and the tasting rooms and things like that. That full experience, not just the drinking of the wine and Finger Lakes is gorgeous. It's a great place. We actually left some kosher wines there that if someone happens to call and say, hey, we're traveling and we're going up north and don't you know a kosher winery there, didn't you do something? Is it possible to set up a tasting? We can be like yes, I'll make a phone call, there'll be something kosher for you to taste there awesome that is crazy.

S. Simon Jacob: 59:59

That's not everybody all not everybody all at once, because it's not like we left, no, but that's a great idea, my great idea.

David Riven: 1:00:06

my in-laws love traveling and, uh, they were camping up near the finger Lakes and I sent them there. They actually happened to go to Eola Hills as well on some other road trips, so they've definitely benefited from these kosher productions across the US.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:00:21

It's a great idea.

David Riven: 1:00:24

I'm going to rinse a bit.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:00:28

This was a clean glass.

David Riven: 1:00:29

Yes, you drank. Accordingly. You had two glasses, one for the red, Alright. So first of all, I could tell you that the color just gorgeous. It's already changing shades. It's like it's getting a deeper, Deeper gold, deeper gold.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:00:49

It's a a deeper, deeper gold, deeper gold. It's a beautiful golden, beautiful golden color. It almost looks like a whiskey.

David Riven: 1:00:55

Yeah.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:00:56

It absolutely doesn't almost. It looks exactly like a whiskey.

David Riven: 1:01:00

It'd just be confusing because it's in a wine glass, like a good whiskey.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:01:03

It looks like a quality whiskey, to be honest. Yeah, even the red tint is just beautiful. .

David Riven: 1:01:15

Amen.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:01:22

Ari is doing amazing work. Everybody who wants to do this sort of thing goes to France and goes to non-kosher wineries in France and brings out kosher runs. He has become Mr America. He's traveling all over the US and it's just amazing productions.

David Riven: 1:01:45

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is a real special wine, very limited production, and I know we're talking about it now, but it is very likely. I think when I left the US, there was three bottles left in stock, and that was, uh, on May 15th. Um, today is whatever, whatever day, it is 20th, 19th, 20, 20th, okay, and then, um, this will be out broadcast before the 20th.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:02:16

No, it won't be before the 20th. This will be out in another couple of days.

David Riven: 1:02:21

Right and they may or may not be available. I actually had someone reach out for a case of it and I'm like we don't have a case left and I'm in Israel, so I can't help you right now. I'm in bed. Oy, oy, oy, but yeah, this is lovely, fantastic wine, but uh, yeah, it's lovely, fantastic wine.

David Riven: 1:02:42

This, this bottle, I actually brought from my house. Um, I mean, all of them I brought from my house, but this one I had sitting in my uh, in my wine fridge, um, and I'm glad we get to share it and enjoy it here.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:02:57

I'm sorry, this is really a special bottle. You want more? Yeah, actually I do.

David Riven: 1:03:06

You can have more of all the wines and I can leave them with you whatever you'd like. I brought them for you special. I'll never repay you for all those Rothschilds.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:03:15

Don't be silly, don't be silly.

David Riven: 1:03:17

You can always enjoy good moments. That's the beautiful thing about wine right At the end of the day, and even if you don't love wine as much, you can enjoy. You still get to enjoy the wine.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:03:26

It's about the people. It's about the people.

David Riven: 1:03:29

The terroir.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:03:30

I love it, the people part of the terroir. Well, so that was the discussion in the beer that maybe the people are the terroir for beer because you don't have any of the other things. All the rest of that is produced outside of wherever you are, and it's an interesting perspective no, I and I tend to agree.

David Riven: 1:03:49

I think it also has, and I and I remember thinking about this and sometimes my mind wanders when I'm when I'm listening to podcasts and stuff. But you have to take into account the personal preferences right of the consumer and typically each place has their different foods and different things, that that they gravitate towards and that definitely can help shape wine production so that's the people. Part of the terroir israel.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:04:15

I think the spicy, the spicy food that's native to here is definitely bringing out more acid and bringing out more, you know, kind of edgy whites that you normally wouldn't see, where people wanted much bolder, big reds. Um, the food here is built for, you know lighter reds and, uh, incredible whites right, there's a few interesting things about, um, israel.

David Riven: 1:04:48

One is that, uh, the main meal is lunchtime, right? Uh, dinner is usually a lighter meal, whereas in america it's typically dinner is the heavy meal. Um, I don't know if that's changing. That's not the case here.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:05:00

I mean, I remember from years ago. Years ago that was definitely the case. Lunch was the big thing. You know, israel has become this magnet for so many Jews from so many different countries. As an example, the South Americans who eat at like they don't sit down to dinner until nine o'clock at night.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:05:23

So they come here and they only come into the restaurants at like eight. You have the French as well, who also have a tendency to eat later, and I'm sitting there going. You know, I want a reservation at 5. I'm sorry, I'm an old guy now so I can't stick around for that stuff, but that's fun.

David Riven: 1:05:47

Right, that would also lend well to lighter wines because, like in the middle of the day, it's one thing to top off your evening. End of the day, you get too tired from drinking, just you know, head straight to bed.

David Riven: 1:05:56

But in the middle of the day, unless you're doing a siesta, you pretty much have to power through the day.

David Riven: 1:06:01

Lighter wines lend themselves better. Another interesting thing that I've noticed is, like, because of how many wineries there are here in Israel and how you know small the country is, you're close to wherever you are, you're pretty close to a winery, as opposed to, like the US, you want to go to kosher winery and, until more recently, any kosher production, like you're. You know, if you don't live in california, you're. You're flying across the country, uh, here you're basically going down the road and it's a lot more accessible and a lot more accessible to the younger generation, and the younger generation tends to like be on social media and what's the cool thing you're doing today and I think it's picked up a lot of. It's become a trendy thing in the younger generation here in Israel and even when I go to wineries, you know and I ask them about you know the demographics and what they're seeing and like a lot of them are talking about like that young generation coming in, let's say, on a Friday afternoon and just like picnicking.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:07:04

It's, it's's. Look behind you. That's a vitkin picnic basket. Ah, okay, you see, perfect it's. It's exactly what. And the visitor centers are jammed on friday afternoons and they do all sorts of crazy things during the war. Um, uh, you got Castel and even Flam having other wineries in their winery presenting things, and it's just.

David Riven: 1:07:30

Sparrow does that. Yeah, the Riesling which is apparently coming up in a month or so, there's like a whole Riesling summit. Yeah, but Sparrow isn't kosher but they invite kosher wineries Reallyiesling summit yeah, but Sparrow isn't kosher, but they invite kosher wineries Really. So that, yeah, and I don't know. Ooh, I don't know. Speak to Asaf. I'm going to Speak to Asaf about it.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:07:49

I was just talking to him about it today Because his Rieslings are I don't know, and he gave me one for 2015.

David Riven: 1:07:56

It's also Schmita.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:07:57

We gave you a 2015 one. I have a 2015 and a 2017 downstairs. If you want the 2017 instead, I'll give you the 2017. Whatever you like, no, I agree with you. His Rieslings are off the charts. His Rieslings are really like real Rieslings. I mean, they're as good as the German Rieslings.

David Riven: 1:08:17

I mean Assaf's making fantastic wines. I they're as good as the German Rieslings. I mean Assaf's making fantastic wines. I think they're a bit ahead of where the typical kosher palate is for the most part. But people who really enjoy wines and people who, you know, want to think about the wine when they drink it, like for sure is higher, like higher end. The journey wines I think are are approachable to everyone and anyone and then as you go up it's, it's like you want to really to appreciate it, you want to know a little bit about the varietal and things like. But it's like fantastic wines. Um, but I think that a lot of those more approachable wines and easy and lighter wines are more accessible to that picnic crowd that we're mentioning before and I think that that's kind of like a lot of wineries have to respond to that and and cater to the cater to the demand. It's I.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:09:10

I agree with you 100. It's become a very big thing here to go to a winery on friday. Um jezreel also has a huge offering up there with music and everything else, and it's a lot of fun. A lot of the wineries have been doing some really spectacular things in order to kind of rebuild a bit, because with the war here it tanked the restaurants to begin with. Some of the restaurants have come back, but nowhere near where they were. Plus, there's a whole group of people that are just like removed from the equation. Right now.

David Riven: 1:09:53

They're all either in Gaza or up north, and it's a little craze yeah, I remember in the in the beginning, uh, you know, speaking to, to the winemakers that I import and trying to see what I could do to help. You know, what do they need? What are they? What's? You know, obviously we know what's going on and the way all jews are affected by this. But specifically to the industry and and the working relationship I had with them, and you know, we had a couple of the winemakers come to the U S recently in February, along with all these other tastings that were going on. I said this is a great opportunity. Why don't you guys come down? There'll be KFWE I'll try to get you in. There'll be the, you know, the Jewish link. There'll be, uh, the KWD, that this other kosher wine tasting group, like you know, inoklyn, right, you'll get get a chance to present and then we'll, we'll, we'll skip and hop around the country. We'll set up some other events, different places.

David Riven: 1:10:44

People are always, you know, interested in, in hosting winemakers and stuff like that. Um, we did an event in maryland and um, you know, and where I live, in silver spring, and um, we, we brought together a couple of different communities. There's like, uh, there's a chabad house there and there's a show called kms and, uh, like you know, different, everyone's kind of. It's a pretty cohesive community there, but you know, these are two different shows that we brought together for one evening of wine tasting. You know, with the two winemakers we brought nelly, shirani, akavoria and we offered their wines that they had an excess here. Like cause, we, you know, we plan out ahead, we know what we're going to order. We, you know they know in advance.

David Riven: 1:11:26

But in addition to that, whatever they had here that they were expecting to sell through, that all of a sudden, just like stopped because of the war. And they were saying you know, people are not drinking because they're not celebrating, and even if you have to celebrate, because the bar mitzvah or wedding, the men are not showing up to these events, they're out fighting. So like there's not a lot of wine consumption there either. The restaurants are closed, the stores are closed, so like consumption just fell, fell off a cliff and I said, how much excess do you have? And like we, we sold like a pallet of wine at this event. That was like from that excess. We didn't ship it from our warehouse directly, we put it on our next container that we brought in and got it to everyone just before Pesach.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:12:07

It's. It's really an incredible thing to see. You know, people don't realize this. There's two things that are going on that people don't really get. They understand the war, they understand a portion of the war, but what they honestly don't get is that there are hundreds of thousands of people are displaced. I mean the whole north. Every city that's above Sfat is basically evacuated. Kiryat Shmona is a city, it's not like a town.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:12:46

It's a huge city and it's empty. All of the people from up there are staying in hotels all over the country, and by staying in hotels, people think, oh well, they're in hotels. That's wonderful. Actually, what it is is that they basically take hotel rooms. They take the furniture out of it because they need to put like five beds on the floor in order for these people to be able to fit, and they're living out of suitcases on top of beds in rooms that are not made for more than two people. And this is what these people are living in and there's no sense of when they're going to be able to go home. So it's crazy. I just you know, I was with Amihai not too long ago and he was particularly frustrated because he'd finally gotten people back from the war and he'd started to really get it worked out okay for him, because these people were away while everything was sitting in. Yeah, yeah, please.

David Riven: 1:13:57

Sorry, I haven't been paying attention to your glasses hidden behind there, but what can I pour for you? You know't been paying attention to your glasses hidden behind there, but no no, it's not.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:14:01

What could I pour for you? You know what I want. I want to taste that first one again.

David Riven: 1:14:04

The Pinot, yeah, the.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:14:05

Pinot. Sure. Thank you Great, I'm going to let you go in a few minutes. Sure, it's with Amichai and it's with Amichai. It was crazy because he finally got people back and he started to get a rhythm back into his winery where he hadn't had staff and all of a sudden they got called back in to go north and he was like so disruptive.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:14:40

It was like what am I going to do now? You know, like it was just, he made it through the first level of frustration and now it was like easing. And then all of a sudden they got called back in and he was like you know, like, hit me again. You know, like, what do you want from me?

David Riven: 1:14:59

And then in two years he's going to say my best vintage was 2023.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:15:04

It probably is to be quite honest. It probably is to be quite honest Because Kadesh Baruch Hu works in the most incredible ways. I mean this whole thing with Iran and the president and all of these people who have been cursing Israel all being in a helicopter together and all of a sudden, this helicopter goes down. How did Mossad know they were all there? No, they said yeah.

David Riven: 1:15:29

Let the conspiracy theories begin.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:15:32

Thank God they haven't begun yet, because they haven't even begun to think how to implement them, but I'm sure that they're going to be people who blame Israel for this. So, whatever, it's crazy, so I really want to thank you for being here, being on the Kosher Terroir, this was so much fun.

David Riven: 1:15:51

I don't know how informative it was, but this was definitely so enjoyable to hang out with you and talk wine and and reminisce on some fantastic uh wine moments and tastings that we've shared and, god willing, many, many more, and with the ultimate wine tasting that will uh come with mashiach with god's help.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:16:12

I'm really looking forward. Um, I don't know who's going to pick the wines. When he, when the yes, he her, yes.

David Riven: 1:16:19

Good, that's I think he's already picked them.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:16:22

I, yes, you're right With the Michiak wines. You're right A hundred percent.

David Riven: 1:16:26

Um, okay, Uh really Thank you, but you'll supply to stay, but you should definitely come visit and check out my very limited and humble wine collection that we can raid and you know, there I look forward I'd love drinking wine with you and sharing wine with you, so I'm looking forward to creating new moments okay cool. I look forward as well thank you for for having me.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:16:59

Simon Shalom U'Braha, take care.

David Riven: 1:17:00

All right.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:17:12

This is Simon Jacob, again your host of today's episode of The Kosher Terroir. I have a personal request. No matter where you are or where you live, please take a moment to pray for our soldiers' safety and the safe and rapid return of our hostages. Please subscribe via your podcast provider to be informed of our new episodes as they are released. If you're new to the Kosher Terroir, please check out our many past episodes, and thank you for listening to the Kosher Terroir.