Ep. 4 - Talking mentoring and mentorship with Dr. Natalie Hart

Today I talk with Dr. Natalie Hart, a former student who was a Washington State Achievers Scholar at the University of Washington while I was the director of that program. Our conversation covers her from third grade when she knew she'd be a doctor (an astronaut doctor?), to her mentors that encouraged her to dream big, and what she learned about mentoring from her journey through higher ed and in her research. We'll talk about the Kingmakers of Oakland mentoring program and shout out Chris Chatmon, Founder of Kingmakers. Finally, Dr. Hart will share some strategies she used for creating a program at Stadium High School for young BIPOC men, and how she handled the pushback she received at the time.

Dr. Hart has her doctoral degree in K-12 Leadership in Urban Settings, and received her BA and MEd from the University of Washington, Seattle. She would like to continue her DEI work for an organization in southern California. She's an avid Disney fan and Disneyland visitor.

You can find and reach out to Dr. Hart on LinkedIn.
Her dissertation can be found here.

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You can find me at https://www.firstgenfm.com/ and on LinkedIn. My email is jen@firstgenfm.com.

Transcript

0:01

Hello, and welcome to first gen FM I'm Jen. And I'm your host for this podcast? I have been working in higher education for the past 30 years. And for the past 20 plus years, specifically with first-generation college students. I am so excited to be here today with Dr. Natalie Hart. Now I've known Natalie for a long time. Because she is a Washington state achievers scholar, and I was privileged enough to work with that program at the university of Washington and get to know her when she was. A undergraduate student there. Natalie received her bachelor's and her master's degree from the university of Washington. Her master's is in educational policy analysis. Her doctoral of education in K through 12 leadership in urban school settings from USC out in California. So she's a west coast or all the way. She served as a college and career counselor in Tacoma, Washington at stadium high school, and also was an RA and a learning specialist for student athletes while at USC. She's been a DEI consultant and instructional designer. And I am just so excited to be here today with Dr. Hart. I hope you learn as we talk about her path through education. As we talk about her views on mentorship and some things that she learned from her own mentors, as well as from studying mentorship in her dissertation and particularly a program in Oakland. I hope you enjoy listening to my conversation with Natalie Dr. Hart, as much as I did talking with her.

Jen: 1:39

Welcome Dr. Natalie Hart. I am so excited to talk to you and just to see you because it's been years and years since you graduated UW. I shouldn't say that. Makes you sound old. It's been years and years since I left UW and I am old. But I'm so, so, I am so glad to have you here talk about the power of mentorship. So why don't we talk about. A, I guess introduce yourself and tell us a little bit more about you, but then why is mentorship important to you?

Natalie: 2:10

Yeah. So as introduced I am Dr. Natalie Hart. It's so exciting to finally say that like, I think I think I've shared that with you before and I'm grateful to have known you for such a big part of my life as well, so you could see my progression and transition into where I am today. But when I was in the third grade, that was when I had first told my parents, I wanna be Dr. Natalie Hart. I wanna be Dr. Hart. And as I got older, I transitioned into putting a, a timestamp on that, that I want to be Dr. Hart by the time I'm 35 and I'm gonna make that happen. And so I am I'm really excited to Have had great people in my life to kind of hold my hand and guide me along that journey to being able to put those two letters in front of my name and three letters after my name would Letter Works. But yeah, growing up in Tacoma, Washington, I don't think I had kind of the, the. The best influences until I kind of got involved in organizations that were able to provide me mentorship. Mm-hmm. That helped me to see my potential and, and release that potential within me to let me know that you can be bigger than what your environment is, then you can do more than what your circumstances have provided you. And so just throughout my Journey of life. I have really clung onto the fact of how mentorship has impacted my life. And I will forever be a mentee or protege of many other wonderful mentors who have poured into me. And I'm happy that with the knowledge that I've gained from these many different people, yourself included that I'm able to pour into others and provide that same empathy and caringness and kindness that was shown to me that made me feel that this is important to continue this as a part of my one of my pillars in life is to, to make sure that I'm giving back to others by helping them avoid pitfalls or at least being, you know, that Yeah. Guiding voice in case I guess they want to experience some of those pitfalls on their own. My dad has always been told growing up that he was like, I can, I can tell you there's a wolf around the corner all day, but if you wanna meet the wolf yourself, go right ahead. But I, but I've told you there's a wolf around the corner. I love

Jen: 4:56

that. I love that analogy. So you're a first gen college graduate. You're, you were first. To get your doctoral degree. So you have experienced going through sort of the educational system that wasn't necessarily designed for you as someone who's trying to like get access and get your degree and discover the hidden curriculum of college and all that. So mentors must have had a huge role. Where, where did you find your first mentors? Was it back in third grade that you said, it just clicked, I'm gonna

Natalie: 5:32

be a doctor? I guess that's probably where I started dreaming big. I remember having a wonderful teacher in elementary school. This had to have been maybe yes. Second or second or third grade. And her name is miss Rita Tyler. I'll never forget her. She was also like my first like Latina teacher. I identify as Afro-Latina. And it was just cool to like, See somebody who reminded me as one of my, my aunties or TIAs and the way that she was just so like, loving with us, like all of us were her children in class. And yeah, it just made me feel like. Welcomed or like, this is a trusted adult for me, outside of my home. Mm-hmm. And I, and I always remembered her telling me always dream big. Like, and sharing that with the class, always dream big. And it's like little stuff you don't think that will actually stick. With someone or you, you don't think that, wow, I'll, I'll think about that for the rest of my life, type of thing. But yeah, she, she started, you know, planting those little seeds early and the whole dreaming big was, was just something that stuck with me. That, if you, if your dreams don't overwhelm you, you're not dreaming big enough. Wow. And so I think that was That was something I thought of when I thought about what do I wanna be when I grow up, when I was eight years old and, and yeah. And I was like, I wanna be a doctor. I wanna be a doctor. I, I originally wanted to be a doctor who went to outer space.

Jen: 7:14

All

Natalie: 7:17

true. Not cause Cause she said dream big. Yes. Sometimes I wanna go to outta space and I wanna be a doctor. And but yeah, that, that was the original premise around being a doctor. And so, you know, I had to hone that dream chip away at it to, you know, make some realizations. Okay, maybe space is not where I'm gonna go, but I still wanna be a doctor. And so I think my parents, they probably still have that old picture that I drew, cuz you could drew, you know, draw a picture of who you saw yourself as in that big dream. And yeah, I remember drawing like an astronaut helmet and I had like a stethoscope that I put around my neck in the picture that I drew. I'll have to like find that one day, one day when I have my permanent residence. I, I wanna put that in like a shadow box. But yeah, that, that was my, my first introduction to I think a mentor who I felt comfortable talking to. And that, yeah, that was, that was in the third grade.

Jen: 8:23

Wow. Wow. So now I know you did your, your PhD and you did some research on a program in Oakland on mentorship. So I know that's jumping ahead a little, but I'm, I am jumping around, so that's ok. What kinds of things did you learn from that? And how much did the experience you have lead you to pick that as a dissertation topic?

Natalie: 8:48

Yes. So I wrote about a wonderful organization located in Oakland, California within Oakland Unified Schools. It's called King Makers of Oakland. They originally kind of stemmed from the African American male achievement initiative that was started there. They're the first school district I believe. In the nation to have an office that was dedicated to the achievement or advancement of young black males within that school district. I first kind of latched onto the idea or concept of this targeted universalism. And so this theory of if you targeted your most vulnerable population and help them to be successful. It'll be kind of a, a trickle down effect or how a drop of water goes into, a body of water and just ripples out. So this ripple, ripple effect. Of goodness and, and success for others that these students will also interact with and be around. So after they spent their time in being empowered in these classrooms and learning from someone who mirrored them not just physically, but Emotionally and some of their own like experiences, life experiences these young men could resonate with. And they would spend this time in the classroom and be learning about, you know like the true origin of African history, that their history didn't start at slavery, but your history starts as royalty. You are kings and queens and, or, or, well, for the young ladies they would interact with outside of the classroom, that those are queens and with their This new sense of empowerment and, and thinking, right, dreaming bigger than who they were and knowing that who they interact with it is gonna be a representation sometimes of everybody who looks like them. Being your, your best self and, and being able to show that to others was super important. And then just some life skills and things that they may not be receiving at home. For some of these young men, they were very much influenced by the east Oakland neighborhoods and some of the folks who were not on the best pathways in life and had some negative influences there. That they were able to counteract those influences in this classroom by, you know, seeing these upstanding gentlemen who look like them, where they thought that, you know, the person who's standing on the street corner who looks like they have a lot of money, but is it, you know, involved in some negative activities that they think, whoa, that's a fast track to success because that person has a nice car or maybe nice clothes or nice shoes, and I want that. But they were able to see also these other men who were dressed nicely, or also express themselves, however they wanted to, to express themselves. And they were like, I can be a part of that too. So I used to be a high school counselor in Tacoma at a wonderful high school called Stadium High School. If you've ever seen the movie, 10 Things I Hate About You, this is the school from that movie. So yes, the rest in Peace Heath Ledger. But I'd love to bring that up to folks that I'm like, oh, here's what's my office. And the ballroom is where the students have lunche in and it's really nice. And it's the Hogwarts of Tacoma. But while I was a high school counselor, I had the opportunity to attend a conference called COSEBOC which stands for Coalition of Schools educating Boys of Color. And once I learned about this conference and the influence that it can have for young men of color in our school districts and institutions. I was like, I wanna be a part of that. I had learned about some data around some of our students at Stadium High School, especially our young men of color during the time I was there. And I took it upon myself to build a conference for our young men of color, for them to have an opportunity to learn the resources that Stadium can provide if they were not aware, in addition for us to have a listening session where they could tell us what stadium is doing wrong and what we can improve on to best serve them. And I think oftentimes, right when we develop some of these resources we miss out on asking the actual population what they need instead of just throwing things at them like, you look like you need this, and you look like you need that and it's like, ah, I didn't even want that. Here's what I actually need and you know, here's what could help me be more successful and taking that to heart to actually implement some of those changes that the population is asking for. And so as a result of building that conference, I had. Catered breakfast and lunch for the students. We had sectioned out classrooms. I got men from the Tacoma and local community to come in and facilitate these sessions. I had sets of questions all set up so that they can get all those questions are being asked in all those classrooms so that we can collect that data and learn what stadium could be doing better. And as a result of creating something like that at Stadium I think naturally I was drawn to learning how other people around the nation were also serving this community. And so that's how I ended up going to the conference. And yeah. And then at the conference I saw that they were on the agenda as one of the Sessions that you can attend. And all the sessions were three hours long with a wow. Short break in between. And I I was, I was sit sitting in the front row and just listening to the testimonies of some of these students who were either alum or current students of the program, just sharing that because of this program or as a result of, you know, being a part of it. I felt like school was home and that just made me tear up while I was there. I was like, imagine if more of our students who didn't feel welcome in some of our schools, right, where they may not have staff that mirror them or understand their experience or approach interacting with some of these students with the same empathy that they approach other students. Imagine like the differences that we would have in our school system if students could think about school as home. And to hear some of these students say that, that, you know, without this program I would, I would've never called, you know, school as a place that's welcoming. Mm-hmm. And, you know, because of this program, it makes me want to come to school and it makes me want to stay there. And it makes me wanna do well because somebody is holding me accountable and I may not have somebody outside of. You know, the classroom or after I leave the doors of, you know, ex school that is holding me accountable to be successful oftentimes. Some of these students were sharing that, you know, I'm, I may not have that parental influence that is guiding me or you know, pouring, giving me that growth mindset and pouring into me to mm-hmm to be great and you're going to be great and what can I do to support you to be great? It's sometimes it's about survival. It's, I have to work two jobs as a parent, so, you know, you just. Be responsible for the kid thing, and I'll be responsible for the adult thing. And because of, you know, timing and schedules, they don't align to have that sit down talk because it's just go, go, go. Or we won't have those over our head or food on the table. So your responsibility is be the kid, do what you need to do at school, and I am, you know, handling the bills and stuff like that. And so for some of the students to share and. Obviously with our experience in education, we've witnessed it ourselves. That like some of these students are dealing with very adult problems, right? Watching mom and dad or mom or dad or grandparents or who, whatever guardian, they're like working hard to provide for them. They, you know, think. I need to be doing my part to also provide, and that is sometimes where the disconnect happens, where it's like, well, I'm gonna just move away from school or do bad in school so then I don't have to come back anymore. And whoops, now I'm not in school anymore. I guess I have to do something else that's gonna generate some money. Now that I don't have an education, I don't have access to applying to somewhere that requires a high school diploma or degree or whatever the case may be. So I'm gonna be involved in activities that. Are, they are not so good for my future so that I can get some fast cash because this is a direct influence I have cuz it's in on my neighborhood corner. And that person is able to have access to fast cash and I'm, you know, the student is listening to, you know, whoever the guardian is, or mom and dad complaining perhaps about bills. And things like that, that the student is like, that is a priority versus me thinking about what the pythagorean theorem is. This is not important to me. It's what's going on at home,

Jen: 18:28

right. That long-term, thinking about getting a degree is going to, getting, getting a high school diploma and or then getting a degree is gonna take me to places that are far away, but will ultimately be more beneficial in the long run to me and to my family. Yes.

Natalie: 18:48

Yeah, that's really hard. Yeah, so at the conference that's when I knew I wanted to be involved with something that was like this program or was this program. So I attended this conference in 20 I believe 2016 or 2017, and stayed in touch with the founder of the program. His name's Chris Chapman. He's amazing. And Once I decided like, okay, it's time to be Dr. Hart, like I have some really good ideas and I won't receive the salary or the recognition for these ideas until I have doctor in front of my name. So I am going to go and get that. So once I decided to pursue my doctor's degree that was the first thing I thought of. I was like, I want to highlight this program. I wanna write about this program. And so yeah, like as soon as I got around to choosing what my dissertation topic was, I reached back out to Chris Chapman and I was like, I, I said I wanted to highlight your program and here I am. So I wanted to, I wanna, I want everybody to know about the amazing things that you're doing and by the, the end of my time in writing the dissertation and graduating, we now have a king, makers of Seattle. So they were able to bring the program and move it north. And so I was like surprised since it was already in California. Like, oh, why wouldn't you move down south and come towards Los Angeles? But they went north and you know, did a hop over Oregon for the time being and went to Seattle and had stakeholders and, and folks that were willing to actually do the work and make this happen, right? We find a lot of folks are like, oh yeah, we'd love to do that. But when it comes time to talking about funding or actually putting the man and woman power behind, making this work actually work, you know, then it dwindles down to like the person who was initially bringing up the idea and the backing suddenly disappears. Right. And so I, I was so happy to hear that one of my fraternity brothers Anthony Shoecraft was a part of bringing the program to Seattle Public Schools and now there's an office for African American male achievement in Seattle public schools. And so I, I would love to say, because I'm from Washington, that I was an influence in like my work and researching them to also bring it back to my home state. But I know that's not the case and that I'm happy that it still happened, but it was just it was gratifying to see that, that like, I'm happy other folks are latching onto the fact that we needed this in Washington state and, and I'm hoping that other folks will see the wonderful work that Chris and his team is doing that other places in the nation will also hop on and bring this program or something similar to their school districts as well.

Jen: 21:52

Nice. Nice. Yeah, I, I, when when you see something that you've learned about, you've seen the success that it's had, move to another city to bring that success to other African American men. You just think like that is just, it's going to change lives.

Natalie: 22:12

Yes, but it's filling that, but also like to come back to my home. Like that, that was the, the biggest like resignation with that was like, wow, like I, I love Tacoma. I'm from Tacoma that is my hometown, but to, to be close to home, like that was really monumental to me that like, wow, this is an area that that I'm familiar with and, and I'm so happy that you're gonna do something that is intentional about helping this population. Mm-hmm. Yeah,

Jen: 22:43

absolutely. So I know, I know that, based on what you did in the high school, which sounds like a really cool conference that you did at Stadium for the students. So based on your experience with that and with what you learned through your dissertation, what are some things that I could take away or that someone working in high school could take away and say, oh, I, I could probably do that where I am. That would help

Natalie: 23:12

students. Yes. Well, yeah, I think seeing that there is a need is so very important. So having stakeholders that are on board that they also recognize that this is a need, it's alarming and willing to put the, the effort into actually making it happen. Like I was stating before, like we've. We've talked about these statistics for decades on end, and we're just getting to a point where people are starting to actually wanna put the money behind the work. And a lot of people are doing, you know a lot of this guidance work. You know, for free. And then not having the actual, you know, folks on board to support and help out in a lot of the integral parts of making a program like this happen. So I think data, right? People lie, but numbers don't. So bringing data to your folks at your staff meetings that was kind of like the initial way I introduced the importance of a program happening or some kind of listening session, something. So that we can make some positive changes. I am definitely, like, when I set my mind to something, it is it is very hard to move me away from making that happen. If I say I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it. And, and I wanna do it to the best of my ability. And so I wanted to make sure that I was providing like, The best experience I could possibly you know, make for the students with, with the funds that I had available and, and the, and the folks that I had on board to actually make things happen. So we were a small but mighty team. There were definitely some folks that were a bit skeptical about making it happen. I remember there was a parent who had called the news when this program happened and was like, this is racist, and why does there need to be additional supports for black and brown boys? And. And then why can't my son be a part of it? So I had a couple of my friends who played in the N F L who also came to talk to the young men in the program, cuz I knew that would be a big attraction pa a factor for folks to be involved or for students. Mm-hmm. And I remember this young man the student of the, of the woman who had called the news and when he approached me about the program, he was like He was like, I, when did the N F L players come? Cuz I wanna come to, to meet them. And I was like well if you want to be a part of the program, what we're discussing is how to best support your black and brown peers here at Stadium High School if you would like to participate in the conversation and building some of those ways to support those students. You're more than welcome to participate in the conference. And then being able to interact with the N F L players is a bonus and is a part of the, of the whole day. And so from that conversation, I guess the student took, I'm not allowed to be a part of the program because I'm white. And, and I had learned later that the reason he had said that is because he only wanted to meet the N F L player.

Jen: 26:37

Right? Right. He wanted to sort of cherry pick and say like, I don't wanna go to the whole conference or sit in on all this. I just wanna meet those guys.

Natalie: 26:45

Yes. So yeah, so you, you will have some, some haters or some folks that are gonna wanna push back on things that are targeted for specific populations. But I think there is a perhaps a. A scarcity mindset that people have where if you have something that takes away from me, and I think a lot of our folks that are reluctant to do this work, need to move away from that mindset that because another population gets something, doesn't mean it takes away from you. It's to help. Boost that population up to be in the same place as you. Nothing is getting taken away from you. Your life will still be your life. Nothing is taken away from you. But these students who have been right, historically disenfranchised and have historically Not been best served, deserve to have additional resources in order to help move the needle in equity. And if you're truly about equity, you will think from a growth mindset and not that scarcity mindset. So I think that was, that was a big barrier for me was coming up against folks who Who were, who were like, well, why can't this just be something for everyone to be a part of? This needs to be. And I was like, actually, I would love that. Can we, can we have the entire school be involved? Like so I had one person say that and I was like, well, where's everyone else Who wants to also be involved? Right. It lots that everyone has a comment, but not everyone wants to put the time and effort into making it happen. So it's like all of these, you know different viewpoints coming in, but I, I was a big bulk of the construction and the implementation Yeah. Program.

Jen: 28:38

So just so you presented the data and was everybody like, oh my goodness, Yes. Or did you also have to do some, you know, persuading the principal, your colleagues, you know, you present the data and it says clearly like our black and brown students are not doing as well as our white students or as a population, like they're just not doing as well. So after you get to that point, Like, how did you convince them to say let's do the conference? Because you, you have the people who are gonna say, it should be for everybody. And, I am, you're just like, no, I'm Natalie. I'm determined this is gonna happen. You know, much like the second grade student who is gonna be the doctor. Like, this is gonna

Natalie: 29:19

happen. I'm gonna space, yeah.

Jen: 29:22

I'm going our space as a doctor, and that's all there is to it. Yeah. But I'm listening and I'm like, oh, so you present the data, which is a really good point cuz oftentimes I think we try to do things anecdotally. Yeah. But to have that hard data and say like, look, this is, this is what's happening is a really good kind of takeaway for folks. Like, then

Natalie: 29:40

what happened? So, yes. So from there I had some folks who were shocked that that was what's going on at Stadium. And I had some other staff members who were like, well, that population doesn't want to try hard. Mm-hmm. So why do we need to do anything extra from them? This is extra effort time away from the school day where we could be teaching other stuff, like, and that student needs to be in class. So what, what's the point? You know? And it, and it was really disheartening to come up against some of those folks who, who, who weren't all about the student and making student-centered decisions. That sounded really selfish for them to say that that's extra time away from them. And now that student's missing more class and, and this is just gonna make them fail even longer or more for more time. And like after, yeah, discussing with them like, here is the numbers. These have to change. These have to change. If we truly care about the success of all students and making equitable decisions, we have to change this data. This is, this is not okay. And I think really coming up in there and, and showing them that like, you can be a part of this change. I'm not just here like brand new person, useful person, woman of color on the staff. You know, intentional on shaking things up, but I'm intentional about making changes that are benefiting our students. And so Eventually, my, my principal was already on board. I had talked initially and I already had a personal relationship with him cuz he happened to be my vice principal when I was in high school. So he just happened to also be my, my boss at this point in time and he already knew the determined student I was in high school. And so he is like, I I see all the kind of things that you did at Foss So I, I knew when I brought you on my staff, you were gonna come and shake some stuff up here, so that's why I wanted you on my team. So I, he already had the backing from him especially cuz I wanted to do all, you know, the work ahead of time by gathering that data, disaggregating the data. Just for my own curiosity, I was just like, how are we serving these students? I, I was curious on, on my own. I think for, for other folks who are thinking about that, that's probably important for when those data reports come out from your, you know, senior staff counselors, whatever the case may be. Actually take a look at that data. Sometimes it's like the data is right there in front of us, but folks don't wanna say anything about, some of those glaring numbers. They'll, they're like, well, we just, we did the data because we're required to, but we like what we're doing and what we're doing is fine. And as we know, right, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results of insanity. Insanity. So you don't want to keep doing the same thing over and over if our populations are continuing to evolve. Right past practices are not applicable to future changes. Mm, you called me on that. But it's so very important that you're constantly involving in the way that you serve students and create access points for opportunities to, for social mobility, right? And, and equitable access to opportunities that are beyond the high school. And I think sometimes if we're thinking in the K through 12 area, It should be right. It's supposed to be cradle to career. We should be approaching the way that we're serving students from how, we're getting the best set up so that they can graduate and make it onto a best career. It's not just getting a job, right? A job is what just pays the bills, but we want them to be in a career space that they can actually get promoted and move up and do something within their craft or interest. And I think folks, and maybe sometimes our, our veteran folks that are, serving maybe, just elementary, just middle school, just high school or whatever the case may be. You're, you're stuck in, I did my part here. Mm-hmm. And this is all that I can do instead of what can I do to continue to guide them and move them along so they're doing something more beyond when they leave these doors. Right? What

Jen: 34:12

gets them ready for the next part, for the next, not just, not just what gets them ready right now, but what gets them ready for what comes next.

Natalie: 34:19

Yes. Because that, that was something that I shared with the staff members as well, is we, we shouldn't just be focused on just getting them across the stage, but if you're just, you know, allowing them to skate by or just letting them get seized, how does that prepare them for being a competitive applicant to a college one day, if they're just getting by? So we gotta change the way that we're approaching, the way that we're serving students to, that we are setting high expectations for them. And then when the students hear that we care about you doing more beyond, you know, when you leave these doors that that is gonna make them wanna step it up as well too. Wow, someone actually cares. Someone's holding me accountable. Someone wants more for me when I might not even be thinking I deserve more. Right? Mm-hmm. And and I think in my time working there and hearing some of those students feel like they're not deserving of more than just a high school education or that's just enough, and I'm like, You have grown up with the idea of just enough being enough, but I wanna plant the seed inside of your mind that just enough is never enough, that you always deserve more. And just because you haven't seen it before doesn't mean that it's not within your reach that you ignore.

Jen: 35:44

Yeah, I, and yeah, I see that. I, you know, my philosophy is that, I see the potential in all the students and they don't see it yet necessarily, and so I feel like my role is to help them see what I see sometimes and say we are playing small. There's so much that you can do that you're ready to do. Let me encourage you, nudge you, coerce you, cajole you, you know, yes to get you to where you can see all these things you can do. And then, and then like then, and then I just get outta the way. And I mean, I felt that way at the University of Washington. I feel that way now in my current job. It's like, I, I'll, I'll connect you, you know? That's so much of what I think we do as educators. We're connectors and helping people find where they need to go and find who is going to really feed them and they're gonna feel like they belong there. And then once they find that and they find what it is they wanna do, and that career piece, not just a job, but that career piece, it, you step out of the way and you just watch. Watch students

Natalie: 36:57

take off. Yeah. Yeah. And just as a point of gratitude for you, Jen, I'm so grateful that you were a part of my journey and you were a part of my life. If I haven't expressed that enough to you before, I was like, it makes me emotional thinking about it. But I think about just as a quick anecdote. My first quarter at the University of Washington and feeling like, you know, I'm one of the smartest people coming outta Tacoma right now. And and I took it upon myself to make my own schedule cuz I wanted to be an astronaut doctor. Right. And I did chemistry and bio and calculus all in that first year and did horrible bull. My GPA was like a 1.9. I had went and talked to an academic advisor And I'll, I'll never forget her name, I'll keep that to myself but I did dedicate my dissertation if you wanna find out who, who she is. But when I had met with her, this woman, and I hope she no longer works at the University of Washington, but she, she had told me after looking, like, spending five minutes and looking me up and down and then looking at my transcript just the one quarter I was at UDub, not taking into account the stellar student I was at FOSS High School, taking International Baccalaureate program and getting an IB diploma graduating with one A minus on my transcript from high school. Like. Just killing it and everything. But she just looked at the one quarter I was at U-Dub and, and thought that I wasn't trying hard enough and she said that, well, you know, your people don't usually do well in higher education. Yeah. So she was like, you might wanna consider doing something an easier route like going to community college and maybe the University of Washington can be in your future. So she told me that my first quarter at U-Dub, and I was so grateful that like I, I met folks like yourself. I don't think I had like visited you yet to like actually have a sit down one-on-one. But I knew you were, and I'm grateful that I actually took advantage, right, of those resources and, and a mentor. Held my hand and was like, you need to go talk to people like Jen and I talked to another person, Joe Nathan, Thomas and those conversations were so monumental in me staying at the University of Washington because after talking that one, Five, 10 minute conversation with that woman I was going to drop out of UDub, I thought I did not belong there at all. And I was like, well, my grades clearly show I don't belong here. I don't deserve this. This is a fluke that I even got into UDub. It was a mistake that like, I got this scholarship like I had. So many negative feelings, and I'm just, yeah, so grateful that like I met folks like yourself who are like, you are so deserving and, and made me feel so welcome. Like, yeah, I'm, I'm grateful. So if you don't already hear it enough. Thank you.

Jen: 40:07

Thank you. That, that means, that means a lot. And I was just, I was so excited to talk to you cuz in some ways this is so full circle, right? Like I'm, yeah. You, I, I work, I've spent so many years now working with first generation students and now I'm doing a podcast talking to educators about how to serve first gen students. And here I am talking to a former student, you know, who's now a, a doctor. Has a PhD and is going on to do great things. So, so to close, how can people connect with you if people have resonated with what you've said or they're like, Ooh, I wanna find out more, and I will link to your dissertation in the show notes in case anybody wants to look at it. You know, how, how can people connect with you and find you?

Natalie: 40:50

Yes, you can hop onto LinkedIn and connect with me there and and yeah, and we can go from there. If you want to set up a time to hop on a, a call for Zoom or teams or Google meet, whatever works for you. Or if you happen to be in the LA area, we would like to meet for coffee totally open for that too. But yes, yes, reach out. Reach out on LinkedIn. That'll be great. Okay.

Jen: 41:14

Or if they happen to be at Disneyland on maybe one Friday a month, they might find

Natalie: 41:19

you. Yes. As you can see from my background, I am an avid Disney fan, an avid Disneyland goer. I try to go once a month. I'm currently charging my magic key pass right now because I'm going to California Adventure today, so I'm I'm very excited.

Jen: 41:38

Awesome. I love it. Love it. We'll have to do another interview about how lessons from Disney can help first gen students. I'll fi we'll, we'll have to think

Natalie: 41:45

of something about that. Oh, I love that. Yes.

Jen: 41:47

Well, thank you so much Dr. Natalie Hart for joining me today. I really appreciate it and I think there's some really good takeaways that you served up for us to hear. So thank you and I hope you have a wonderful rest of your afternoon and time at Disney, California Adventure.

Natalie: 42:04

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so very much, and hopefully one day we'll be able to go together. That'll be cool. I

Jen: 42:12

would love that. I would love that.

42:17

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Dr. Natalie Hart. As much as I did, it was my pleasure to learn from her, to hear about some of her takeaways about getting data, about listening to students and about learning more about mentorship. If you want to reach her, I will link all of her information in the show notes. So you can find her and check out her dissertation if you want to. And as always, if you want to find me, I am@firstgenfm.com. Feel free to check out my webpage and sign up for my newsletter. I would love that. And you can also email me at Jen that's Jen@firstgenfm.com fm.com. Thank you for joining me. I hope you learned a few things like I did. And if you want to be on the podcast, reach out to me because I'd be happy to talk to you and learn about all of the cool things you are doing to serve and celebrate first-generation college bound and college students. That's it for today. I will talk to you again next week. Bye now.