Family Disappeared

How to Write an Amends Letter With Parental Alienation Specialist Josh Coleman Part 1 - Episode 24

• Lawrence Joss

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Embarking on a journey of reconciliation can be as daunting as it is necessary, especially when the estrangement lies within the delicate fibers of family. I, Lawrence Joss, alongside the insightful Dr. Josh Coleman, delve into the often-unspoken paths of familial healing, and the profound act of writing amends letters.

Navigating the complexities of estrangement and alienation, Dr. Coleman and I dissect the intricate dynamics that lead to family disconnections. We lay bare the soulful distinction between alienation—where one parent's influence skews a child's view of the other parent—versus estrangement, which can stem from various, sometimes unavoidable, life circumstances. The conversation is an honest reflection on the hampering defensiveness that parents must overcome, and the courageous steps towards empathetic communication that may pave the way to rekindling lost relationships.

The closing moments of our dialogue are a heartening embrace of the struggles and victories in the throes of parental estrangement. We share tales of resilience, the solace found in acceptance, and the self-care necessary when facing the reality of a child's unforgiveness. Our podcast provides a reservoir of support and hope through concrete resources and shared experiences. For anyone navigating these turbulent waters, our stories and advice serve as a lighthouse guiding you back to the shores of familial connection.

Dr Josh Coleman:  https://www.drjoshuacoleman.com/

Connect with Lawrence Joss:

Email-       familydisappeared@gmail.com

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This podcast is made possible by the Family Disappeared Team:
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Connect with Lawrence Joss:
Website: https://parentalalienationanonymous.com/
Email- familydisappeared@gmail.com

Speaker 1:

So there was a period of time in her early 20s where she wanted to talk about what that was like for her and I didn't handle it very well initially, I think, like all well, most parents were going through it. I responded very defensively and couldn't really hear her perspective.

Speaker 2:

So it wasn't really until I sort of learned how to just shut up and be empathic and take responsibility and find the kernel, if not the bushel, of truth in her complaints that things began to turn around and we eventually were able to reconcile, blessedly, my name is Lawrence Joss and welcome to the Family Disappeared podcast, and today we have a fantastic guest, that is, dr Josh Coleman, who shares a lot about his experiences, all the different services that he offers free webinars, newsletters and a bunch of other incredible materials. He also has a brand new book that just came out, and today we're going to talk about writing in a men's letter how to write in a men's letter, why to write in a men's letter, what are some of the pitfalls in writing in a men's letter and what other resources there are to help you through the process. Please subscribe, like, share our Facebook groups. We have one specifically for PAA. We have one for the Family Disappeared podcast, which is going to have some original content and that are going to have some great conversations on there that won't be anywhere else. And the Family Hope project is visceral, it's real, it's powerful. Join the Facebook group to participate in that. Share insights on there, maybe mature some of your art, if you choose, and the website for the Family Hope project will be out in the next couple of weeks and by the time this podcast gets out, it might already be out there.

Speaker 2:

So let's jump into the show. There was a time in my life when I was overwhelmed and underwater. Those days are the inspiration for this podcast. This is by far the ultimate healing journey for all of us. Healing ourselves emotionally, spiritually and physically is paramount to this journey. From this place of grounding we can all go out into the world and change all our interactions and relationships. We can engage people from an integrated and resource place. This is a journey of coming home to ourselves. In today's episode we'll start to explore some of these issues. Let's begin the healing journey today. Welcome to the Family Disappeared podcast.

Speaker 2:

So I wrote a really in-depth men's letter. It was probably about three years ago and before I wrote the men's letter I was reaching out, I was trying to apologize. I was doing all different kinds of things and I think I was creating a lot of fire in some places where fire didn't need to happen. And I'm presuming some parents, grandparents or the family members out there can relate to that, because you're really just dying to have connection, the longing, the pain, the emotional turmoil that it's creating in our lives and in my life. I'm just trying to figure out how to turn that switch off. I just want to go back to some kind of place where life is manageable.

Speaker 2:

So I reached out in a lot of different ways and then I decided to write in the men's letter and got help, followed a framework not Dr Josh Coleman's framework, I did not know about it back then, but I followed this framework. I sent out this really detailed letter to my eldest daughter and I didn't get any kind of reply. I have no idea if she got it or didn't get it and you might be thinking, well, that sucks and that's a loss, and I will tell you this in writing the letter. It was one of the most cathartic experiences I've ever gone through.

Speaker 2:

I really got to take myself out of my ego and my perspective and really try to understand what a 12 year old, 13 year old, 18 year old, 20 year old young woman, young young girl, was feeling and what she was seeing is because my lived reality and my lenses are not necessarily the same lived reality and my kids lenses and a lot of the problems that I created is I wanted to erase their lived experience and I didn't realize like like they were living this experience, this is, was reality to them.

Speaker 2:

I was trying to say, hey, that's not real, this is real and in doing that caused a lot of pain. So I sent out this, a men's letter, and it was a wonderful, cathartic, challenging adventure, and I'm really excited to hear about Dr Coleman's strategy in sending out the letter, because there's a lot of stuff in what we're going to jump into that I wish I would have known going into conversations, going into texts, going into emails and, most importantly, going into the cement process. So let's get right into the conversation with Dr Josh Coleman. So we have Dr Josh Coleman here today and, josh, thank you so much for taking a moment to come out and say hello to the community and share some of your expertise with us. Just to introduce folks in the community that might not be familiar with you, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to be working in the Strangement, alienation, disconnection Field in family systems?

Speaker 1:

Sure, I'm a psychologist in the San Francisco Bay Area and a senior fellow with a council on contemporary families. My interest in this sprung out of my own personal experience. I was married and divorced in my 20s and have adult daughters in her 40s who I'm very close to at this point. But there was a period of time in her early 20s which she cut off contact with me for several years and part as a result of my divorce from her mother when she was younger and then my remarriage and having children from my second, which was also my current marriage, and her feeling in many ways displaced, disregarded. You know some of the many ways that the fallout of divorce can hurt parent-child relationships, particularly fathers and daughters. So there was a period of time in her early 20s where she wanted to talk about what that was like for her and I didn't handle it very well initially, I think, like all well most parents are going through it. I responded very defensively and couldn't really hear her perspective. So it wasn't really until I sort of learned how to just shut up and be empathic and take responsibility and find the kernel, if not the bushel, of truth and her complaints, that things began to turn around and we eventually were able to reconcile, blessedly. But at the time there was nothing written on the topic and the advice that I got from friends, family and even well-regarded therapist was very wrong-headed, as it often is. It just made things worse. So I thought, well, there's really a need for people to get educated about this.

Speaker 1:

So I wrote my first book on the topic in 2007,. When parents hurt compassionate strategies, when you and your grown child don't get along as a result of that got a very wide following of estranged parents here and in a few other countries. So started doing webinars and a free Q&A for parents and then ended up doing a study through the University of Wisconsin Survey Center of 1600 estranged parents which I published in several academic peer reviewed articles and then, on the basis of that, wrote my more recent book, rules of Estrangement why Adult Children Cut Ties and how to Heal the Conflict. So I've really been steeped in the estranged parents really for the past 15, 16 years or so. It's really at this point in my practice. It's really almost all that I see. So that's kind of personal and professional journey here.

Speaker 2:

Wow. Well, that's a lot of years and it really humanizes the experience that you've been through this too, that you felt the pain and the confusion and also made a lot of mistakes, because that's a huge part of this is really learning to resource ourselves and learning to listen and learning about empathetic communication. So, yeah, I appreciate hearing your story and we are going to focus today on more of your structure for writing in the men's letter. But before we do that, I just want to just ask a general question. Like you use the word estrangement, some folks use the word alienation and disconnection erasure. There's a lot of different words. Can you give us just like a bird's eye view of what language you use and kind of like what it means to you and if there is a particular reason for that?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, there's a particular reason. Alienation, I think, very specifically means, you know, means when one parent covertly or overtly poisons the relationship with the other parent. So that's parental alienation. Estrangement, I think, is more sort of the general category, of which alienation is a subset of that. There's many pathways to estrangement. Alienation is one I know. A lot of people who research this topic say, you know, alienations the poisoning of the child. Estrangement is, you know, when the child has, you know, good reasons to not have contact with the parent. But I don't like that distinction. I think it's very precise because most people, most sociologists, most psychologists, the general public refers to estrangement as really a cutoff or an alien, an alienation, but not the kind of alienation that parental alienation, more a distancing or, to use your term, in a ratio of the relationship between the two. So that's the way that I think about estrangement versus alienation.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, I appreciate you breaking it down and you know, for me I see, like alienation just as a big tent and estrangement just as a big tent, and we're all in different places on the bell curve on that and we're all just trying to get help and get a relationship with my kids. So I really appreciate that. So writing in a men's letter, is that something that you find to be a therapeutic intervention in families that are navigating whichever form of estrangement or whatever door they're coming in?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, in my research study it was one of the most commonly reported interventions. That worked, you know. But let me say first, there's really nothing that any therapist or professional can say that if you just do this, this will definitely work. You know, we can say I can give you 10 things that definitely won't work. It will make a situation worse. But I can't promise any parent that any particular intervention is going to work.

Speaker 1:

It's a very difficult problem to treat. There are many pathways to estrangement. Certainly one is where the parents made terrible mistakes. They were abusive, they were neglectful, et cetera. But that's not the only pathway. Another is alienation, as we just talked about, where one parent poisons the other.

Speaker 1:

Divorce in general is a big risk because the child may, even if there's not alienation, choose one parent over the other. It can bring in step other people to compete with that child, that parent, for emotional or material resources. It may cause the child to feel more like the parents are individuals rather than a family unit that they're a part of. So divorce is huge. Therapists do enormous damage in this space today. Therapists who think every problem has a trauma at its root, even if it doesn't, who recommend estrangement as some resolution or some big, bold move and obviously there's a place for it. I'm not saying there's no case for ever estranging a parent or family member, but it's being advised way too Commonly. Similarly, the way that social media plays into this, the way that it kind of forms these kind of extended kin where they give advice so, oh, best thing you ever did, best thing I ever did, cut off my parent, don't need the drama, don't need the stress, feel so much better now. And these people have no investment in the family. They don't have to live with the consequences of the heartbroken parents or grandparents who are being cut off from their grandchildren. So that's huge mental illness, certainly in the parent, but also in the adult child. So there's many pathways. Well, lastly, when a child marries, the adult child marries and the son-in-law or daughter-in-law alienates the speaking of alienation the parent from the adult child says choose them or me. You can't have both. That's also a very common pathway to estrangement. So any one of those may make it really hard for the parent, even with the best interventions, to form a pathway towards reconciliation.

Speaker 1:

That said, I think that a men's letter is the best place to start, because in the men's letter you're trying to get on the same page as the adult child. So I always encourage parents to start off by saying I know you wouldn't do this unless you felt like it was the healthiest thing for you to do. And in doing so you're kind of saying I'm taking myself out of the way, that I feel hurt or victimized or wounded or traumatized by the estrangement, and I'm just putting it in terms of what your motivation was For the adult child. That is how they think about it. For the parent, they don't think about it. It's the healthiest thing for them to do. They think it's like the worst thing they could possibly do to them in the world.

Speaker 1:

But in saying that they're kind of trying to remove the defensiveness. Parents have to be able to remove the defensiveness of the adult child for them to feel like, for the adult child to feel like the parent understands them and is committed to a different path to change. Now, if they know what they've done wrong, it's really important to just speak to that very directly and not try to say things like well, maybe I wasn't a perfect parent, or you know I did the best that I could, or you know it was really your mother who brainwashed you against me or any of those things. They just don't work. They just make the child feel misunderstood and not cared about. So it really takes a kind of a courage to find the kernel, if not the bushel, of truth.

Speaker 1:

Now, sometimes the parent doesn't know why the child has estranged themselves, and in those cases I think it's useful for the parent to start the letter in the same way than to go on to say something like it's clear that I have significant blind spots, that I don't have a better understanding of why you need to do this, but I would like to learn which you'd be open to telling me more about your thoughts, feelings or memories. I promised to read it or listen purely from the perspective of listening and not any way to defend myself. Or if you wanted to do therapy together, I would welcome that opportunity. Or if there are things you'd like me to work on in my own therapy, I would welcome that opportunity as well. So it's really just kind of a big outreach of compassion, responsibility, taking, empathy. So if anything is going to open the door, that will, and it often does. But again, you know, no one thing is certain to open the door.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and there's one thing significant that you said in the beginning is actually acknowledging their loved reality. Like I might not align with their loved reality, but by acknowledging that they're living this life and they're having these feelings, it kind of like softens, like you no longer are trying to defend something, protect something, tell them what to think or not to think, and that feels like that. You said you start your letter with kind of like that, that opening oh yeah, this is real, this is really what you experience and I'm understanding that this is happening. You saw, I love that as the starting line and you mentioned something about some study that you did where letters, amends letters were like one of the top items that came up on that study. Could you just talk about that for one or two minutes? I wasn't aware of a study.

Speaker 1:

The research. That part I haven't published yet, but it was in the survey I did of 1600 strange parents and one of the questions I asked them was are you reconciled at this point and, if so, what do you attribute the reconciliation to be? And the majority said it was a result of the straight amends letter.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's awesome to hear. And in the process of writing an amends letter, even though the parents, grandparents, family members are writing the amends letter to young adults, adults, whatever age the children are now like, what is the internal healing process for the actual parent when they're writing? What does that look like as they go through this process of putting this stuff on paper?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's a good question. I think the paradox is that it actually helps parents to develop more self-compassion, because you know that old saying, what stays in the dark grows in the dark. And the more that we have to insist to ourselves or to our children that we were perfect parents, the more fragile is our psyche, the more that we can just kind of go. Yeah, I could see why that was really hurtful or I could see how you could have felt neglected by that. Or you know or wish that I had done that differently or feel like I failed you in that way.

Speaker 1:

Now, as somebody who's written those letters myself, they're not easy to write. They're incredibly humiliating and painful and nobody wants to go back over the ways that they hurt their child or failed them or any of those things. You know, like most divorce it's not nearly as simple as one sort of has to make. If there's always other players and aspects that go into a divorce where you know where a stranger is the consequence but facing you know the aspects where I was responsible. It's not an easy thing to do.

Speaker 1:

But you know, in AA they talk about the importance of making a fearless and searching moral inventory, which is kind of like where you just you write out and face all the ways you have character flaws. I think this is an enormously therapeutic thing to do, as painful as it is, because we're all flawed, we're highly flawed. We're also flawed as parents, but guess what? So are our kids. But the more that we can just kind of like oh yeah, this is a character flaw of mine, like, for example, you know, all three of my kids, they're all grown, but they're all would probably, you know, say that I was impatient in many ways when I was raising them. You know now that I'm at the tender age of 69, I'm not nearly as impatient, but when I was raising them I certainly was. And so, you know, I can't really say no, I wasn't, you're imagining it or you're overly sensitive. So just being able to go, yeah, that's true, it's one of my character flaws, and not in a flippant way You've got to go.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And for me personally, in writing an amends letters to my daughters, like I thought the letter was really about them and what the most significant part for me was this like cathartic journey of putting myself in their shoes as young adults, as teenagers, and really feeling and understanding and acknowledging what they were going through through their lands instead of my land. So I had less like moment of just heart opening and just being able to relax at a different level because I finally understood a little bit more of what they were saying, you know.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it has the potential to make the relationship much closer if you can go there, if the child will allow it. I mean, again, I want to emphasize that in some ways I was just lucky that my child was willing to open the door and forgive me, because there's a lot of parents who you know I mean I have skills, I'm a psychologist, I know how to communicate, but at least I figured it out over time, I didn't write away, despite the years of training and therapy. But you know, my daughter was, was willing to open the door, but not everybody's kid is, even if they communicate perfectly. And the reason I highlight that is I don't want any parent to feel like, well, there must be something else I can do or should do, I must be doing it wrong. You know he had a reconciliation there, for you know there must be some peace I'm missing.

Speaker 1:

But you know there's not always it's it's it's really contingent on the adult child's ability, willingness to open the door, because nothing compels adult children to have a relationship with a parent today, be on whether or not that adult child wants the relationship that old, you know the idea of family's forever on. If I, mother and my father, respect violence. That ship is sailed, it's been completely replaced, as with is this relationship in line with my happiness and mental health and personal growth or not? If it's not, then I don't need it. So that really just disempowers the parent and kind of over empowers the adult child, from my perspective.

Speaker 2:

You know that makes a lot of sense and for me I sent out my a man's letter and I got nothing back. You know what I mean and that was a whole process and a different way of letting go. And again there was this acknowledgement of what her lived experience was and I felt lighter and cleaner and it took up less space in my head. So there is this, this collateral stuff that's happening on a healing level with me and I believe, as we heal through this letter writing process, our kids are healing to, even if they're not responding.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, now, I totally agree. And sometimes parents will say to me well, I wrote the letter and they never responded to it. But three months later they got back in contact. They don't want to talk about anything, you know. Or for the first time they never addressed the fact that they'd gotten the letter. But you know, three to six months later I started getting pictures of the grandkids again.

Speaker 1:

So even if you don't get a response, you it still may be landing and I think to your point. I think it's really important psychologically to feel like you've done everything that you can do, because we can go mad thinking about well, there must be something else I can do, and it sort of relieves you from that, from that burden. There's only a finite number of things you can do. There's not a ton of things you can do. Right, you can write a really good, immense letter, do a follow up in six weeks. If it's appropriate, maybe reach out to your adult child with occasional text or expression of goodwill to let them know you're not, you know, stewing on the other side. But there's not a ton of other things to do and so psychologically it can help to let go.

Speaker 2:

And you mentioned something also when you were sharing your experience on that. You mentioned AA and the 12 steps. You know, and we have a 12-step door to support. You know, parents are struggling with the Strangemen, alienation or ratio, whatever it is, and the 12 steps are an incredibly Unique tool to help you kind of like integrate some of this work. And, and what is your relationship to the 12 steps, or do you have any?

Speaker 1:

Not directly, but I've had family members who are addicts and alcoholics and professionally I've certainly been exposed to it. So I'm pretty well first in them and I might. I'm a huge believer. I think there's an enormous wisdom in the 12-step program.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it's interesting because the 12-step program has a framework and you put together a way to write the men's letter that has a Framework and I think that's an incredibly important thing to say out loud to parents and grandparents like we need a roadmap because we're so Disregulated and disorientated and anxious and scared and don't don't want to make a mistake, that that having a roadmap is Incredibly incredibly important and dr Josh has a weekly webinar and he also. I watched your Webinar on a on a men's letter and it was wonderful and it was useful and it was digestible and it was relatable. So if folks haven't had that opportunity yet, we'll put a link in the show notes. You'll be able to to check that out at a later date, but it's well worth the information. Just some really incredible stuff in there.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, appreciate that. And just following up on the men's letter, right, like it's messy as a parent or grandparent writing this or brings up a lot of guilt, shame, remorse, anything like that. Like what is your suggestion to someone that might be Writing an immense letter to? To kind of like resource themselves, to take care of themselves, like for like self-care would be anything you would suggest for that.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, there's lots of. I think the first distinguish between sort of what you tell yourself versus what you tell your child. You know, you can tell yourself in your head, well, you were a difficult child, or your mother, your father, poisoned you against me, or you know, or your spouse has made it impossible for me to have a relationship with you or basically won't allow any Ability to heal the relationship. You can say all that to yourself or to your friend, your therapist or whomever, but it's now what you say to your, your child, you say to your child. It's just purely the expression of empathy and responsibility taking. So so I think distinguishing between self dialogue and what you tell your child is critically important. But there's some other things that I've sort of learned in doing this work, both personally and professionally. The first is the notion of a Radical acceptance. So when I was going through my estrangement, I hadn't heard the term but I was, you know, like so many parents who are going through it, miserable, and thinking what if I never see my child again? And and a voice kind of came inside my head Just basically said well, guess what? You may never see your child again, so you're just gonna have to get used to that and it wasn't a particularly, it wasn't like a harsh critical voice, it's just kind of like guess what, dude, you might never see your child again. So you're gonna have to develop some serenity around that and it was very liberating.

Speaker 1:

I was giving a talk at a synagogue and the rabbi told a story which I really liked, where a woman Every day was, she was in furtiles every day She'd prayed a god to have a baby and God would never answer Because she couldn't get pregnant finally got answered and said no, you're not gonna have a baby. And as sad as it was, it was a relief because she could stop struggling. So there's a saying which I think comes from mindfulness, which is Pain plus struggle equals suffering. The more that we struggle against our pain, the more suffering that we have. And that's sort of the idea of that story of the woman who was praying for for a baby, or me who was praying for reconciliation. You can't white-knuckle it through life. That's why you want to take a few concrete steps and put your all into them, but then you have to kind of let go and accept it and just allow the painful feelings to come and pass, because otherwise you're. You can be just made miserable by this process, as anybody's going through it well knows.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, it's an incredibly challenging, tiring, all consuming process. And then there are iterations of it in my experience, where it's the intensity just Overwhelms you. And then you start taking action steps and you get a little bit itself on the wound and it changes. And, yeah, it seems to change. It doesn't seem to go away, but it definitely changes and takes up a lot less space and some days no space at all. So, yeah, I love what you're saying about do what you can, take the next indicated step and take care of yourself, and then maybe another indicated step comes up and then you take that one as well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah so I'm in your, in your letter, writing experience and working with parents and and grandparents. Can you share a couple like victories of people that have shared maybe a story with you that might be really nice for the community here? Wow, wow, wow, wow. That was a. That was a powerful start to the conversation with dr Josh Coleman. There's there's so much knowledge there and and I really appreciate the humanization that he's gone through this experience too he's he's felt desperate and and anxious and and wanting to reconcile with his kids and also the humanity, that we make mistakes and it doesn't matter who you are or where you are. You know what I mean, whether you're a doctor or whether you you're working at a clothing store or whether you're Doing something in between. Like, we're human, we're gonna make mistakes and we have this process that we can try to reconcile through. And it's really about showing up for ourselves again, right, it's really about our own inner emotional and spiritual journey. So make sure to check the show notes. They're going to have all Dr Coleman's information on how to learn more, get into some of the seminars, free newsletter and other service that he offers for free, and there's also links in the show notes to Parental Alienation Anonymous, which is our free 12-step support group. It's a wonderful place, incredible, loving community. There's also a link for the Family Hope Project, which is an advocacy and educational art gallery. It's virtual, it's online. You, the individual that's struggling in any form of this way, you're the child, an adult child, a parent, a grandparent, anyone else. You get to submit a piece of art with a title and a description anonymously and we get to teach people about the different stages of this and we want to share all the different perspectives and there's also information on other stuff about PAA, the organization and the different things that we're doing. And we're really so appreciative that you came out and listened to the show and that you're supporting the show and please remember to like, subscribe, share this in any communities that it feels appropriate. And we're asking you to do this because the more we do this, the more people that we can reach, the more we show up in results and some of these social media mediums Like we can reach more people if we have more density with people sharing what we're doing.

Speaker 2:

So thank you for coming out today. Thank you for listening to the first half of the show and the second half of the show Walser. There is some really phenomenal takeaways. Right at the end of the episode there was some really poignant questions about mistakes and what we've done and what not to do. So see you next week. Have a beautiful week. Thanks for taking the time to join me on this episode of Family Disappeared Podcast. Do you know someone who can benefit from what we're discussing on today's episode? If so, please share this podcast with them and anyone else in your community that might be interested in changing their lives. Together we'll continue the exploring, growing and healing journey. I will see you on our next episode. Until then, happy days to all.