#1 - Donald Campbell - Look at the world around you

Our 1st episode features Donald Campbell - my energetic, healthy, and full-of-life Pilates classmate who is in his 90s. 

We chatted about his childhood, how he took 5 days from Canada to France and then to the UK, his adulthood, how he went from not knowing to sew to becoming a fashion designer that Princess Diana loves, his elderhood, how he is still travelling the world with his partner of 54 years.

How to keep a 54-year relationship? How to start a new skill in your 70s? Come and find out in this episode.

Dear Donald:
I am grateful that our lives have crossed and thank you for showing me the key to life is to keep it as fun as possible. Like you, I will never stop travelling. I hope you love this episode as much as you love Pilates - Love, Nicole

Transcript

Singer (00:08):
Intro Song. Welcome to Beyondhood, where we go beyond Elderhood. One Chat at a time.

Nicole Suen (00:18):
Episode Numero Uno. I have a very special Beyonder. My 90-year-old Pilate classmate, Donald Campbell, inspires me to start this Beyondhood podcast. Donald and I met in Pilate class about 1.5 years ago, and it is a relatively small class, usually four of us and a teacher, and it's definitely my Wednesday highlight. During our chat, one time, I kindly asked Donald to get some of his user experience for Beyondhood, and I finished by asking him if there was any final comment from him, he leaned over and told me that he would love to have a pair of ears to listen. That's how I decided to do a podcast, a pair of ear, to listen as a way for us to celebrate and listen to the wisdom and life experience of older adults. And fingers crossed, I hope you will get at least one piece of advice from Donald, if not at least aim to be as flexible as he is in Pilates. So welcome to Beyondhood, Donald. Thank you. So first of all, could you share with us, what's your name, where you from, and how old are you, please?

Donald Campbell (01:38):
My name is Donald Campbell. I'm originally from Canada. I've lived in the UK since 1954 and I am 90.

Nicole Suen (01:50):
Oh, nice. From Canada. So what was it like in your childhood and adolescence in Canada? What was it like back then?

Donald Campbell (02:02):
It was a very happy time for me, particularly in preschool. I was the youngest of six. And although my two elder brothers were much older than I, I had two loving sisters who were seven years older than I, and who really brought me up in a way and protected me and supported me throughout my later life as a student and in my career.

Nicole Suen (02:39):
What made you move to the UK and how old were you?

Donald Campbell (02:43):
I had just turned 21. And the reason that I moved to, not specifically the UK, but to Europe, was to continue in my chosen field of designing clothes. Women's clothes, which I had always wanted to do from the age of eight. And so my father was a minister of the church, and as such, he was obliged to... Well, it was policy, shall we say, you had to move every seven years. And at the age of 15, I moved from a relatively small town to what seemed to be a huge town and a huge high school, which confused me and disoriented me to such an extent that I asked my parents to if I could quit school. Much to my surprise, they agreed, then my mother heard on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation one morning, an interview by a the head of the School of Fashion, who was a woman called Sarah Murdoch.

Donald Campbell (04:00):
She said, this might be of some interest for you if you want to carry on doing this as a career. So I sent her my sketches and I had an immediate reply. I went to Toronto to be interviewed by her, and I was accepted into the course, but I was too young and I couldn't sew. So for the next nine months, or maybe it was a year, I can't always remember, I was put into what they had then was a men's tailoring facility where I learned to operate a machine, operate an ordinary sewing machine, and to hand sew. Then, by the time that course finished, I was ready to go into the proper course, which was two years. I graduated. Then I started work in a small wholesale dress firm. My whole reason behind that was, apart from experience, was to save enough money to come to Europe. Oh. So on June the ninth, 1954, I sailed from New York in the old Queen Mary down in the depths, steerage.

Nicole Suen (05:25):
I did some research on the Old Queen Mary, and the traveling is from Southampton, England to New York City with a stop in Cherbourg in France, and vice versa. And the journey will take about five days. And in between 1938 and 52, Old Queen Mary held the blue ribbon for faster average speed while crossing the Atlantic.

Donald Campbell (05:51):
My first destination had always been Paris. I landed in France five days later on the 14th of June. And again, it was, I had never traveled anywhere before. It was totally confusing to me. And I had a visa for three months, and I spent that time going around various couture houses, showing sketches and things like that. Nobody was interested. You would leave them at the front door and you knew perfectly well that they, no one had ever, I mean, the French are very chauvinistic when it comes to, anyway.

Nicole Suen (06:33):
How did keep keep you going then ? If you knew people would not get it.

Donald Campbell (06:37):
It did depress me in the sight as I just went on to the next stage, which was leaving France and coming to Europe where I was lucky at that time, in 19 50, 54, there was no such thing really as general ready to wear. I mean, today everyone takes it for granted. You buy your clothes online or go into shop, but it was relatively rare in those days. The main arbiters of fashion in the UK were a group called the Incorporated Society of London Fashion Designers. They were organized into a group of, I think there were 10 or 11 of them. I went around to each and every one of them. One of them gave me a job in the workroom for which I was not suited because I had never had couture training.

Donald Campbell (07:35):
After a week, I was given the push, one, two of them wanted me, would've taken me on if I paid them 500 pounds, that was all the money I had on the world at that time, which was quite a lot of money in 1954. Finally I ended up with the newest and youngest member of the society called John Cavanagh. He said, well, I can't pay you anything, but I can take you on. You can sit in the corner and learn what you can. This is what I did, for two and a half years. And I was very lucky because at my training school, which was called then the Ryerson Institute of Technology in Toronto they taught me good basics of pattern, cutting, being able to sew.

Donald Campbell (08:36):
Whilst I didn't have an enormous amount of money, it enabled me to support myself and in extra funds I gained by making clothes for people. I always had, and one person told another, so I always had a customer base. Then one thing led to another. After I left John Cavanagh, I had a paid job with another firm called Susan Small, who at that time was very well known for making copies of French couture clothes, very well oiled, efficient organization. I learned a lot there. I stayed there for just under a year before I went back to Canada for three months, fully intending to come back. This was my first time I saw my family. In 1957, I came back, I went into another wholesale job. The people were absolutely ghastly.

Donald Campbell (09:44):
They were Americans, and they owned a, a firm called Wendy Dress. I'll never forget it. It was absolutely awful. It was an unpleasant atmosphere. The main boss was an old lady. She was harsh and nasty. After three weeks, fortunately I got flu, So I was in bed for three weeks, but I never went back. That's when I started my business with a sewing machine and myself. But I had customers. I started making everything myself, and then the work piled up and I was working from my flat. Well, it wasnt a flat, it was what they called in those days ''Digs''. In other words, I had a room in a house and I was on good terms with the the owner of the house, so she allowed me to use a a boiler room as a work room. In payment for that, I answered the telephone and stoked her boiler.

Donald Campbell (10:55):
I then had one girl, and then I had a falling out with my friend. I moved to the other side of the park on Bayswater Road where I had a proper flat. Then, I engaged two girls. I was there for a year, and then I moved back to Kensington. I had an even larger flat where I employed three girls. And then I did that for about four years. Then my old boss, John Cavanagh, came back to me saying that he was opening a ready to wear department. Don't forget, he was a couturier, everything was made to measure via fittings

Nicole Suen (11:47):
Just so the audience know, back in the day, you said general wear is not very common back then?

Donald Campbell (11:53):
No, it's not.

Nicole Suen (11:54):
What was it like? what's the difference?

Donald Campbell (11:56):
The difference was that basically young girls dressed like their mothers. Of course, in 1957, Mary Quant burst upon the scene. Suddenly nobody wanted to look like their mother.

Nicole Suen (12:11):
I did some research on the Victoria and Albert museum's website. Mary Quant is often credited with inventing the decade most iconic look - The miniskirt.

Donald Campbell (12:22):
There were all sorts of firms at the Kings Road, where Mary Quant had a first shop called Bazaar. I mean, there are many boutiques dealing with clothes for young people. Then the whole industry gathered pace from that. Again, he (John Cavanagh) called back, because I'd had experience in ready to wear, he asked me to design the clothes and look after the the ready to wear boutique, which was at Curzon Street next door to his boutique, which was at number 26. I was there for seven years, then after seven years there, I was getting itchy feet and I wanted to have my own business. I had three offers of financial backing cause I didn't have enough money to do myself.

Donald Campbell (13:27):
Two of them fell through and I accepted the offer of a friend, which was a terrible mistake in hindsight, because she also worked on the business. Anyway, we opened a shop in Chelsea and it grew. Then five years after that, my partner Claudio, and I decided to open the second shop in Knightsbridge. This time financed entirely by ourselves. Claudio worked for four years without anything. I took nothing out of the business, but I put money in every week. Of course we used our savings. Then, we had the Chelsea business. We had both businesses basically for practically 40 years. Wow. Then in 2009, at the age of 75, we made a five year plan to retire (when I was 70, we made that five year plan)

Nicole Suen (14:40):
Wow! 40 years worth of business. During those 40 years, I know you have different customers any specific customer that you would like to talk about? What was he or she like specifically?

Donald Campbell (14:54):
You have to remember, from John Cavanagh, I would've inherited people who were from the aristocracy, because in those days, they were the people who were fashionable. Not so now, but then, yes, they were the ones who went to Paris or they came to London. They wore the latest clothes. When I moved to my own business, I already had a clientele, people who followed me. Again, because of that, they were mainly doctors, ladies. A lot of them are titled, and they lived in town or the country. They either have a house or an apartment in London, and they have a stately home somewhere in the country. A lot of them are... at one point, I had nine Duchess

Donald Campbell (16:00):
Their names would be of no interest and no familiarity to people in 2023. The only customer that they would remember was Princess Diana, who came to me before her marriage. She was brought in by her sister, Lady Jane Fellowes was not a client, but she moved in that world where they would've known about me. She came in one day by herself and said: my sister would like a lot of these clothes. The next day she (Lady Jane Fellowes) came in bringing Diana and Diana bought five things off the rack. They were not made to measure, they were sized, because this is the way we operated. She took them away. In some of her earliest engagements, they (the clothes that she brought) were the clothes that she wore. I think she would probably say that she was my most well-known client.

Nicole Suen (17:06):
What was she like?

Donald Campbell (17:08):
She was a charming, unspoiled, very attractive, very tall, perfect sized 12 young lady.

Nicole Suen (17:17):
In your 40 years of business, what was the highlight and the lowest light?

Donald Campbell (17:26):
I mean, you could say that Diana was a highlight, because that's when we had a burst of publicity and suddenly people came out of the woodwork, you know, who wanted to know me and who wanted to interview me and all this sort of things. I knew perfectly well that very few of them would become regular clients. You know, they were there for the kudos (publicity) of buying something from a famous designer. You still see them (the clothes) on eBay.

Nicole Suen (18:00):
Yes, I saw one on vintage fashion Guild Forums.

Donald Campbell (18:05):
They're still. Some of them are selling for more than they worth.

Nicole Suen (18:11):
Oh. Do you keep any copy? Do you have any?

Donald Campbell (18:13):
No, I threw everything out. Except some things I donated to my school back in Toronto. I mean, I didn't donate them. They asked for them and then they were given. The low point as far as business was (you won't be familiar with this, but I think in the early 2000, Lloyd's insurance brokers had the asbestos scandal (if you want to know more, you can google Lloyd's and the asbestos catastrophe in 2000). Anyway, suddenly in our Chelsea shop, most of our customer disappeared overnight because all their money had gone. That was basically the lowest point. In any business, there are highs and troughs: if there was bad news, if there was a budget, which taxes were raised, then you knew perfectly well for awhile people would pull in their horns. You know I should think that the 80s were the most prosperous times for us because there were big money sloshing around. You know, people had plenty of money to spend. Then of course, we were terribly lucky in the shop in Knightsbridge. We caught the first wave of (Before the revolution) the Iranians. Suddenly our first big customer was a glamorous Iranian woman who worked in the media. You know, this is going back to 1977, and she bought 500 pounds worth of clothes, which was a quite a large amount of money in those days. I thought, well, I wonder if the check is good, so I rushed to the bank to get it.

Nicole Suen (20:44):
Did it work?

Donald Campbell (20:45):
Absolutely. Then after that, we were very lucky in that we had the first flush of Arabs. We didn't provide clothes that Arabs in those days necessarily wanted, but because there were no other shops in the area and they had money coming outta their ears, they used to come. One girl in particular, she was only 16, she was from Qatar. She had produced the male heir, and she was wife number four. On Friday, she came to the shop and spent 10,000 pounds. She had everything in the shop in every color. Because we were kind to her, we had a showroom downstairs where she'd come and she would take off her veils. She was loudly and sweet. She was part of the Al Thani family. Then, of course, all her relatives came.

Donald Campbell (21:53):
That lasted for a number of years. Then we had a wonderful lady from Kuwait. This is before the revolution in 1991. She used to come every year, she had an Indian maid who used to come to the shop once or twice a week, say anything new for madam. We got wire to this, so we used to prepare special things. We never saw madam. She would come in at the end of the her time. They owned a huge building, a complete building in Portland Square. She would come in and she would pay the bill, which was always on American Express. She would come straight from Harrods where they had kept the shop open so she could shop. She used to buy handbags to take back to Kuwait for all the relatives.

Donald Campbell (22:59):
I remember once the chauffeur brought her. She had two daughters at that time. I think one was 13, one was 12, and they were going to Blackpool for the day. They had each been given, don't forget it was in the late eighties, 3000 pounds to spend for the day. Then we had American cruise ladies, people who were recommended to us, who cruised the high seas for three months of the year. Because when you're on water, you don't pay tax, so we used to make 30 to 40 dresses for her every year, which she wore only on board ship. When on board, she didn't have to pay any sort of tax on them. They were kept on board, her jewelry was kept on board. Every night, she would wear something different. When they retired, we had another one. An American, and his wife was English based in a tax haven. They again, cruised a huge number of clothes that we did for.

Nicole Suen (24:14):
How would you contribute your success? What was the most important factor that the client choose you over other designers?

Donald Campbell (24:25):
They liked the clothes. Don't forget, they (the clothes) were aimed at a niche market, which was the English establishment. The clothes were made for people who wanted quality, and quality above all. They were made for people who weren't interested in fads. They wanted classic clothes that were made in good materials, flattering shapes and colors. Now, when the rest of the world was talking about black, they used to come into the shop and say, oh, how marvelous are the lovely colors. I bought only the very best of fabrics. I bought them from Italy, Switzerland, you name it. They were well-made and they would receive a higher degree of service.

Nicole Suen (25:24):
Still feel like the highest service and best qualities were the attributes to the success of your business.

Donald Campbell (25:33):
Precisely. This is what amazes me. I still follow the business and I subscribe to an American trade paper called Women's Wear Daily. This is (highest service and best qualities) what all these big firms are trying to do. It amuses me now. First of all, they talk about sustainability, they talk about recycling this, that, and the other. Then, they have special rooms to set up to service their special clients. Well, we were doing this years ago, but there are very few of us who can do that anymore because of costs and rents and all the rest of it. I have several assistants who are still in the business. I think some of them, not necessarily in the way that I was in the business. I mean Covid and all that sort of thing must had taken a toll. I was very grateful that we had exited when we did. It was a bit of luck.

Nicole Suen (26:38):
Although the UK doesn't have an official retirement age, but you retired at 75. How did you do that? Or what kept you going until then?

Donald Campbell (26:53):
I loved what I did, but I was aware that it (the business) was becoming very stressful. I worked six days, sometimes seven days a week because it was a small business. To make it viable, you don't just sit and design clothes. You look after many other aspects of the business. At the end of the day, you are spending perhaps a day and a half a week designing clothes, the rest of the time was admin. But, you know, I loved it. I thought I would miss it dreadfully when I retired, but in fact I didn't.

Nicole Suen (27:36):
That's a good transition point. Now you have been retired for 15 years now. What are your greatest passion now and what do you do usually?

Donald Campbell (27:46):
Music and theater. Seeing friends, entertaining friends, going to friends', and travel. We travel every year to Barbados. We've been to India three times since we retired. We've been to South America. We're going again in December. I go to Canada every year. That keeps us busy. We go to music thing at least four times a month, to the theater, two or three times during the summer months. We go to Country House Opera. We go to Glyndebourne (an opera festival) four times this year. You know, we're really, really busy.

Nicole Suen (28:35):
You social life sounds more busy than mine. Now we talk about your life story, how you came from Canada and how you started your business. We talked about your childhood, your working life, and your passion after your retirement. I want to go a little bit deeper into your life as well. Career and wealth are important, but relationship is important. Could you share with us a more about your relationship with your partner and how did you guys meet?

Donald Campbell (29:09):
We met in 1969, so that means we've been together for 54 years. He is South American and he had very successful business in Uruguay. He came to Europe for three months and spent a month in Paris. He was going to go to Italy, to the Scandinavian, to the Uk, to the Scandinavian countries again. While he was in Paris, he contacted a cousin who worked at the Uruguayan Embassy. He (the cousin) said, oh, if you're going to London, would you take a letter to a group of artists from Uruguay who are living in London? This is the official invitation for them to show at the Venice Biennale (The Venice Biennale is an international cultural exhibition hosted annually in Venice since 1895). He (Claudio) called them up. When he came to London, they were living in a masnion in Kensington. There were about six of them. They were painters, they were sculptors, they were dancers. They had what was called, in those days, a happening (a performance, event, or situation art, usually as performance art) to show their paintings and dancers did their thing. They had invited a dance critic who happened to be a friend of mine. She asked me to accompany her. That's how I met Claudio.

Nicole Suen (30:41):
That's so romantic! Artist met fashion designer.

Donald Campbell (30:45):
It was in a way. He went back to Uruguay twice to see his mother and his family. Then he came back and I think it was 15 years again before he went back again. We went back together in 1996.

Nicole Suen (31:07):
I have so many questions about this. First, I did some Google research. Now, the UK's official divorce rate is 42% and average marriage lasts only 11 years. What is your secret to be together with Claudio for 54 years?

Donald Campbell (31:27):
Well, I think first of all, we have very similar interests. He's interested in fashion, although he was new to it when he met me, but he was interested in it. We both like the theater. We both like music. We worked together, but we worked in different shops. I think it would've been very difficult if we'd worked actually in one place together. It meant that when we came at home in the evening, we could let our hair down and compare notes. I think we have been on the same wavelength.

Donald Campbell (32:14):
I mean, obviously there were ups and downs in any relationship, but I think you have to remember in any relationship that it is not just about you. You know, other people have their ways and means. I think that separate bathrooms are terribly important because other people have other habits. No matter how much you may love them, personally, their habits are not yours, their habit could possibly be annoying. You know, we all have our own. He is very much the house body. He's an excellent cook. When he came to the UK, he couldn't cook at all, never had to cook. He learned how to cook and how to garden. He does all of those things. We have a daily cleaner, but he's very fussy and he cleans with her, you know, he's very house proud.

Donald Campbell (33:17):
I think you just have something there. We also keep out a way of each other quite often. I mean, he's upstairs now dealing with his thousands of jackets, and I'm down here talking to you. I think we talk several times a day, and the rest of the time we do our own thing. We don't encroach on each other. At my age, I find it (no encroach) very useful. If I feel tired, I just have a rest for half an hour. 20 minutes does often make me feel better again. He doesn't reproach me for that.

Nicole Suen (34:05):
Nowadays is more common to have different culture of people being together, but not so much back in the day. You're from Canada, he's from Uruguay. Was there a lot of conflicts? How did it work?

Donald Campbell (34:18):
Well, first of all Canadian and Britain always had very important ties. I didn't really find any difference except I was staggered by the amount of theater and music activities that you could find then. You can certainly find now, you could be out every night of the week, three times over, had music that you wanted to see. I think in his case, Uruguay is the slowest country in South America. So I think they were not well served by the arts. They had their own opera house

Donald Campbell (35:22):
I think in my case obviously I was here before he was, but I think we were lucky because I was taken into UK society. Most the people that I made friends with were English, British, Scottish or whatever. And so consequently I melded into UK. I didn't try to seek out Canadians, you know. I didn't try to. I was very lucky. People were very kind to me. A lot of people took me under their wing and invited me here, invited me there. I was lucky.

Nicole Suen (36:19):
How do you know Claudio was the one for you? When did you know?

Donald Campbell (36:25):
What shall I say? I gave him the keys to my flat a week after we met.

Nicole Suen (36:30):
Was it love at first sight?

Donald Campbell (36:32):
I think it must have been. I think it was a connection, whether you call it love or whether it was a distinctive connection. I find that sometimes with people, there is something which you just feel connected to them. Like I can't explain it. It's something that you feel

Nicole Suen (37:02):
You did give the key of your flat.

Donald Campbell (37:04):
Yeah. The first week.

Nicole Suen (37:08):
That's how you know. Claudio obviously has been an very important part of your life. How about friendship or family?

Donald Campbell (37:18):
As I said earlier, I was the youngest of six and I'm the only one left standing. My eldest sister died in 2021 at 96. My youngest nephew is 69. I have an older niece who has died. I have a younger nephew who has died. My twin sisters have passed on. So I'm the only one standing. We have an internment service for, which I bought a tombstone for my two sisters, one of my nephews, my eldest sister, and my name is on it too. My ashes will go there, eventually. I'm very close to my family. I always have been. When I used to go back on a regular basis, there would always be a family reunion in my sister's house. All the nieces and nephews, Claudio's family is a bit more difficult. He's not as fond of his home country as I am of Canada. For example, I, when I say I'm going to Canada, I say I'm going home.

Nicole Suen (38:51):
Still after all this year?

Donald Campbell (38:54):
After all this years. Yes. I think it has a lot to do with family. Very lucky.

Nicole Suen (38:59):
How about friendship?

Donald Campbell (39:00):
Friendship? We are lucky to have some very good friends. But given the age that I am, inevitably some of them are falling by the wayside. There have several funerals we've gone to this year. The friends we saw last night, one is a couple of years younger than I am. He's not in the best of health, but on the other hand, we try and keep a foot in the generation below us or in the generation below that. Last year, again, we're lucky enough. We go to the Barbados every February and we had two lots of guests. Ourselves as the hosts, and then there were two old friends. We were friends of their parents who were effectively grands grandchildren. And then beneath them there were great grandchildren. These are probably our youngest friends. One of them is a Canadian who I met through a school reunion. I went to a school called Ryerson, I think I mentioned earlier. Anyway, they used to have alumni associations here. About five or six years ago, I met him in the London Association.

Donald Campbell (40:00):
He's a charming boy and there was an immediate connection.

Nicole Suen (40:06):
It's a connection like you talked about earlier.

Donald Campbell (40:10):
He is unusual. Well, he calls himself an old soul. In the sense that he quite likes older people.

Nicole Suen (40:23):
Actually, I think I'm an old soul too.

Donald Campbell (40:26):
Well, there you are. Because to a lot of people your age: we are invisible. They don't see us. Some of them are very polite and give you a seat on a bus or a tube, but by large we are superfluous to their lives. So, it's rather nice when someone is interested in you as a person and realizes that you might have something to say. So we make a concerted effort to try and keep a foot in our great craft.

Nicole Suen (41:09):
Such a good way to understand your view on different generations and friendships. I always wonder how do you keep yourself in such good spirit and moving all the time?

Donald Campbell (41:21):
I go to Pilates three times every fortnight. I see you, once every week and I go to the other instructor once a fortnight. Also, this house has four floors. There's a certain amount of exercises going up and down and every morning I do 45 minutes of exercises. I have always eaten healthy and I put that down to my mother's influence. She was - I think advanced for her time in ensuring that we ate vegetables and things. For example, for lunch every day, I always eat large amounts of raw vegetables. In the evening, we always have very nice food with an element of salad or vegetables connected with it. I think that helps. I take care of myself, you know, I don't run to the doctor if I have a sniffle, but if I have something which is fairly serious, then I do something about it.

Donald Campbell (42:38):
23 years ago in 2000, I had a ectopy. I had a great Canadian friend who when I went home every summer, I always caught up with her. She and her husband are the great travelers - they are in Europe quite often. Her husband had contacted prostate cancer and he hadn't done anything about it. The cancer had spread and he died. She pointed her finger at me: ''When you go back to England, you get yourself checked. I got myself checked, no problem. Second year, no problem. Third year there was a problem. I went to several experts and I made the decision to have it out. Now I believe it's done with a laser, but those were the days when you were sliced up the middle in hospital. I recovered and al the rest is history.

Donald Campbell (43:45):
If I have anything now, I mean, my hearing is not what it was, but I can hear mostly very well. If I have something, that's I have an acre pain in my legs or whatever, as you are probably aware, I speak to one of the teachers at Pilates. They usually have very good advice to do about it, and I follow it. The pain normally goes away. For years in the late sixties, early seventies, I had severe back problems. I went to various doctors and some gave me cortisone injections, which really didn't help. I went to an osteopath who said, what I think you need is a little gentle Pilates. She put me onto Amit (Pilate teacher). That was 17 years ago. Since then, I have no back problems. I do exercises everyday and I have no more back problems.

Nicole Suen (44:55):
You didn't start your Pilate or exercise until quite late in your life.

Donald Campbell (44:59):
73. I started when I was 73. Therefore, it's never too late to start.

Nicole Suen (45:04):
Remember your first lesson? Were you as flexible as you are now?

Donald Campbell (45:08):
I will never forget my first lesson because I saw Amit and after I'd done the first few exercises, he says, you are wasting your time. You would be far better sitting and having a cup of coffee in the square. Anyway, I went back the next session. I wasn't offended by it (his comment), but I thought was a bit severe. He apologized to me and said he was a bit harsh. I said, well, you're a good teacher, obviously. That was that. I've been going ever since.

Nicole Suen (45:44):
It is never too late to start. As you say, when there's a problem, which we would probably encounter in our life, is to face it.

Donald Campbell (45:53):
Yeah, absolutely. Do something about it. Don't hope that it'll go away. There's an answer to everything, really, I mean, let's face it, fortunately, because through hard work, I can afford that. I'm lucky in that: a lot of problems that other people have don't get me down. Again, I'm aware of the fortunate position I'm in. I don't take it for granted, not religious, but I say thank you.

Nicole Suen (46:25):
It's very interesting you said that because mindfulness always say being grateful for what you have.

Donald Campbell (46:33):
Absolutely.

Nicole Suen (46:34):
It's key to happiness. Do you think that contribute to yours?

Donald Campbell (46:36):
Absolutely. Be grateful for what you have. Don't look back, have no regrets. Whatever happened, happened. Move on. I'm grateful to be alive, to be sitting with you. I'm grateful that I had a nice lunch. I had a nice nap.

Nicole Suen (46:52):
I was gonna ask you. If any, what is your biggest regret in life?

Donald Campbell (46:56):
I don't have any. I don't see the point. You can look back and say, maybe I didn't handle that situation very well. Or maybe I was nasty as a child to somebody. Well, children are children, you know, I'll never forget being nasty to someone. But I mean, the point is you have to move on. You could regret, but what's the point? Children are children. Children can be cruel.

Nicole Suen (47:27):
What will you attribute to living as long as you have, especially in a good spirit and health?

Donald Campbell (47:34):
I was extremely fortunate in that I was brought up in a loving family, which gave me a stability. Although my father was a minister and I was brought up in a religious environment, religion was not, pushed on our throat in any way, shape or form. But I think you absorb a set of values from it (religion), may have nothing to do with my religion, may be more to do with my parents. You go back a long way. North America was settled by people who went there for religious freedom. They had a very strict code of conduct. This and that. Although it wasn't with my parents or with my sisters, I think it was with their (grandparent's) parents. I think that there were certain things that you would be frowned upon. Like you were able to enjoy yourself, but you didn't drink to excess. You probably didn't drink at all. You certainly didn't do anything on the Sabbath. They were sort of pure to them- ideals. I think in someway: those ideals have filtered down. They're not as forced or as strong as they were, but they were, I'm gonna sound pompous when I say this, a good sort of backbone to one's life. You know, to be able to beguiled by something which is superficial or false. I've never been a joiner. I'm always plowed my own. I've not interested in joining something just to be part of something. Be yourself.

Nicole Suen (49:53):
Yes, be yourself.

Nicole Suen (49:56):
If there's one piece of advice you want to share with the younger generations (expats). What would that be?

Donald Campbell (50:02):
Get off your phone. Honestly, I think they're all going to have finger trouble and the ears come by. We also have to grow thumbs. I mean, it really annoys me when you go around on a lovely day like today, and you see people on the bus and in the street where they walk straight into, of course, they're on their bloody phones. I mean, why, what are they doing? Finding out, telling someone what they had for dinner last night? I mean, who wants to know ? You know, who needs to know? I think there are marvelous things with being connected via phone, but I think there's too much of it. There's no surprise. You know how many times have you seen in a restaurant that two people who are obviously going out together and they don't converse. They're on their phones.

Nicole Suen (51:01):
Yes. Actually that's more than familiar. I see that all the time.

Donald Campbell (51:06):
All the time. I remember years ago: It (above issue) was brought to my attention from Claudio's nephew, would've been in his early thirties. In South America, they dine very late. If it's summer there, then it's rather nice. He was like: '' Look at those two people over there. They just came in. They just sat down. They hadn't said a word to each other''

Nicole Suen (51:31):
I like your advice. Don't just look at the phone, but look at the world around us.

Donald Campbell (51:38):
Look at the world around you. One of the great and innocent pleasures is to around you at people, on buses, at trains, walking down the street. You know, if, if you've seen as many faces as I have, quite often, you see a face that you recognize, they may not even know you, but you've passed that face for several months or several years. It's quite pleasant. It's a simple thing to do.

Nicole Suen (52:17):
Yes. Simple things to notice in life. Yes. Finally, what do you look forward to now? What is next?

Donald Campbell (52:26):
I look forward to going to dinner on Sunday night with some friends. I look forward to going to Glyndebourne. I look forward in December to going to South America.

Nicole Suen (52:43):
Wow. South America!

Donald Campbell (52:45):
I've got quite a few things to look forward to.

Nicole Suen (52:50):
On that note, thank you Donald, for sharing your life story and your wisdom with us. I know that you're not only passionate about your work, you value time to rethink what is important, what is to focused in your life. Also, it's never too late to start Pilates and make sure you have two bathrooms.

Donald Campbell (53:11):
Absolutely!

Nicole Suen (53:11):
On our website, we will have a picture of Donald now and in his 30s, so you can see what Donald look like now and back in the day. Thank you. Before you leave, if you love this episode, please stay tuned for our next one. If you haven't done so, please follow Beyondhood in your favorite podcast listening app. Or you can follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn. If you found this conversation inspirational or interesting or valuable, chances are you did as you're still listening.

Nicole Suen (53:49):
Will you do me a personal favor? A six seconds favor, share it on your social, email, or tell a friend, tell a person who can benefit from this conversation, who you think would be inspired by our Beyonders, who are navigating how to age with grace and motivation so that they can join and be part of our mission. You guys can discuss, when a podcast becomes a chat, a chat becomes an action, then we are closer to create an intergenerational community through one chat at a time. Lastly, if you love this episode, please support by being a member of the podcast so that I can keep looking for new beyonders and continue the show.

Singer (53:50): 
Ending song