#2 - Pat & Johnny O'Sullivan - Left, Right or Center?

Our 2nd episode features Pat & Johnny O'Sullivan -  we travelled to Greystones, Ireland to talk to these two lovebirds of 50+ years. They are both 76 years old and they hold the best dinner party in Greystones. 

We chatted about Johnny's lifelong career in the textile industry and how he witnessed the rise and fall of textiles.  Pat shared her career pause due to the ''Marriage Ban'' in Ireland. We also got to understand what is the secret to maintaining a loving, healthy, and respectful 53+ year marriage (tips: travel with your friends is part of the recipe!)
We also dive deep into how they dealt with losing their life pension, what death means and how religion and spirituality affect their view of going to the other side!  

Ready to learn and be inspired by this fun and energetic Irish couple? 

PS: You will also find out why there was a massive delay in publishing this episode :( We are now back on our monthly track!

Dear Pat & Johnny:
I am grateful that our lives have crossed and thank you for showing me that as long as we are with the people we love, nothing else matters as much as we think.  Our conversation occurred on a very difficult day for me, and I truly believe God is sending his message to me via our conversation.  I hope you love this episode as much as you love dinner party - Love, Nicole

Transcript

Singer (00:08):

Intro Song. Welcome to Beyondhood, where we go beyond Elderhood. One Chat at a time.

Nicole: (00:00)

Episode two. First I want to apologize for the massive delay of this episode. The day I recorded this episode in September was the day I received a phone call from my sister in Hong Kong, sharing with me that my grandpa was in the intensive care unit in the hospital. Within 48 hours, I was on my flight back to Hong Kong, and the following two months was a chapter that I will never forget. My grandpa is now peacefully in heaven,

Nicole: (00:38)

And I promise one day there'll be another story on that. Today I have two Beyonders, John and Pat O'Sullivan, whom I had the pleasure to meet through my dear friend Jenny, while I visited her in Greystones, Ireland. Both John and Pat are 76 years old, and they hold the best dinner parties. I passed out on the sofa because of all the great food that they cooked for us, all the yummy drinks and all the fun in the conversation. For real, around midnight they kept going till 2:00 AM and could have continued. John and Pat's spirit and determination to add more life to years instead of just simply adding years to their life. Their long-distance relationship and long-lasting love of what drew me to interview them. Are you ready? Let's go.

Nicole (01:49)

I am here today with John and Pat, and we're going to start The Beyondhood Podcast Two. First of all, what is your name and where are you guys from?

Johnny: (01:59)

My name is Johnny O'Sullivan. I am originally from Waterville County, Kerry, and we now live in Wicklow.

Pat: (02:08)

My name is Pat O Sullivan. I am originally from Dublin, and I am 76 years Old

Johnny: (02:15)

I am also 76 years old.

Nicole: (02:18)

We always say into your seventies, into your new young age, you know. Now you live until a hundred at least. Thank you for being on The Beyondhood podcast. What were your childhood and adolescence like?

Johnny: (02:31)

Yeah, I was born in Waterville County, Kerry, a small village. We lived on the outskirts. My dad was the hall porter of the local hotel. , we had a very simple childhood and we didn't have a lot, but neither had any of the people around us. We weren't poor. We had plenty to eat, and plenty to drink. We were always clothed. We were able to go to school and I think we had a fantastic childhood. We went to the local national school, then we went to the technical school because it would've been too expensive to go to the Christian brothers or the nuns. I won a scholarship from the local school to Galway, and then I subsequently won a scholarship in Galway to go to college in England.

Pat: (03:21)

Hi, I was born in Dublin, but we moved to County Louth afterwards. My father was a chef and he moved around quite a bit, so we moved as well. We moved with him, but he never cooked at home because my mom did all the cooking. I was in Dundalk when I was six. Left Dundalk when I was six and then we came to live in Dublin when I was about nine years old. And there I stayed until I got married in Dublin. I have two brothers and two sisters. You know, we had to learn to get on with people a lot cause we were in different places

Nicole: (04:01)

How did you guys meet?

Pat: (04:03)

We met down in Waterville and my mother is also from Waterville, just outside Waterville. I spent all my summer holidays there with my grandparents from a very early age, actually from a small child myself and my sister from Dublin, and cousins from Galway. The four of us went on some holidays with our grandparents and that's how we met. In Waterville, I used to see him answering mass quite, quite young from about 12 onwards., I noticed him answering mass himself at the local church because there was only one church, a small church. Then, we met eventually at a football match. Yeah. Met at a football match. I made arrangements to meet that night in the local dance hall.

Nicole: (04:50)

How old were you guys? did you go to Leicester?

Pat: (04:54)

No, he didn't go yet, no. Oh, it was that it was that year.

Johnny: (04:57)

It was that year. 1965.

Johnny: (05:00)

I went to Leicester that September.

Nicole: (05:02)

So you had a long-distance relationship?

Pat: (05:04)

I had it for five years. And I was in Germany for two of those years cause I lived in Germany as well. It was an au pair in Germany, for about two years in Frankfurt. You look after the children, you only get pocket money for looking after their children when they're (parents) working. Yeah, because they (au pair) have the day free, you can do what you like during the day, go to college or whatever, as long as you're there for the children.

Nicole: (05:23)

Au pair. I did some research on this. The au pair host family relationship is a two-way exchange, where the au pair provides childcare services and the host family welcome and support them to experience their country improving their language skill and enjoying the culture. What made you go to Germany?

Pat: (05:45)

My sister has been to France as au pair and I wanted to go au pair as well. I just picked Germany. I met the man, he came over, he interviewed me, came and met my parents and everything.

Nicole: (05:54)

How did you maintain that long distance back then?

Pat: (05:57)

Letters

Johnny: (05:59)

Letters in those days.

Pat: (06:01)

That's all it was, letters

Nicole: (06:02)

Do you still keep all the letters?

Pat: (06:03)

I have them someplace, yes. Do you have my letters?

Johnny: (06:07)

I do, yeah.

Nicole: (06:09)

All of them?

Johnny: (06:10)

I wouldn't think so. We've moved, we've moved so many times, we downsized them.

Nicole: (06:15)

No phone call?

(06:15)

No phone. Oh, no,

Johnny: (06:16)

No, no phones. No.

Nicole: (06:19)

Oh, so how often do you see each other?

Johnny: (06:20)

Well, it was nice to see each other, in the summer holidays and Christmas holidays. I would come home from Lester flying to Dublin, and my first port of call was Pat's house.

Pat: (06:29)

Was my parents' house because I was there for a year and a half before I came home.

Nicole: (06:35)

Once a year?

Pat: (06:36)

Yeah.

Nicole: (06:37)

Wow. That's impressive Now. Like you always WhatsApp and if my boyfriend didn't WhatsApp me for a day, I'd be like, where have you been?

Pat: (06:44)

Laugh 

Johnny: (06:44)

Yes, yes. Well, you know, the times have changed

Pat: (06:48)

Phone calls from Germany or from wherever would've been very expensive. Yeah.

Nicole: (06:53)

Oh my god. Five years of a long-distance relationship with writing letters. Oh gosh, we need to stop our insecurity. when you cannot reach your significant other for a day or two. How about you, John?

Johnny: (07:10)

Our contract, because we were, you know, sponsored by the government as it was at the time. We had to work during our holidays. Okay. We got our two weeks' holiday in August as everybody else did. But for the other time, when we were on holiday, we were actually, in the factories working. It was work experience and our grant was the equivalent of our week's wages, which was small at the time, but it was sufficient. And our accommodation and college fees were all looked after by the company. I did a little bit of work experience with a machine-building company. Normally we went in September or October, came home at Christmas, had a week at Easter, then back for the exams, and we would finish by the end of June. I would work in the factory in July and August, and then back again at the end of September to college.

Pat: (08:05)

Crazy. You know.

Nicole: (08:06)

What was your career like, John?

Johnny: (08:08)

There was at the time an Irish-speaking organization. I'm a native Irish speaker, and they had factories all over the rural parts of Ireland, Kerry Cork, Waterville, Mayo, Galway and Donegal. So we were selected to be supervisors. In Galway, I got the opportunity to go to Leicester and do a full-time degree in textile engineering. And, then I came back and I was involved in factories in Cork and Donegal. Yeah. Well, when I came back from Leicester, I was based at the knitting factory. And there was a factory in Cork where they needed somebody to be a senior supervisor, they asked me if would I go and do that. I did that. The headman of the company at the time asked me if I meet some Canadian people who had a wish to build a factory.

Johnny: (09:11)

We were coming up to the summer holidays. Pat was pregnant with our first son and he had nobody else to go. So I volunteered, I had a sports jacket and a pair of trousers. I didn't even have a suit. And I joined them. And we did a tour of Germany, Switzerland, France, and Italy. We built up a project myself and a Canadian, an English Canadian man did the report about what the new factory would need by way of machinery and people. And when it was all done, I was sitting in my job in Cork, our first son was born. I got a call from this man saying, that the Canadians are quite happy to come to Donegal, but the proviso is that you would be the project manager for Donegal. And that's how I finished up with the company in Donegal.

Nicole: (10:06)

What was textile back then like?

Johnny: (10:08)

Well, Ireland had a huge textile industry, the old traditional textile business was knitting and weaving in Ireland. It wasn't that different. There was a lot of knitting. Nearly every small town had either a weaving mill or a knitting mill. Cork was a big textile centre at the time. Dublin was huge, Galway, Mayo, and Donegal had a lot of textiles. When we set the factory up in Donegal, we had an associate sister company in Bradford England. At that time, Bradford, Yorkshire, was woollen mainly. Lancaster would've been mainly cotton manufacturing, but there was a huge number of people employed right from raw wool manufacturers to yarn spinning to cloth manufacturers. There were several suit companies here in Ireland at the time, several knitting companies. Dublin and Cork had hosiery companies and tights. There was a huge manufacturing base here. Killarney had one of the biggest manufacturers of tights and stockings, called Pretty Poly.

Nicole: (11:22)

I did some research about the textile industry in the 60s in Ireland, and I found this book called 60 Ireland Reshaping the Economy State and Society, 1957 to 1973 by Mary Daley. In the book, she said in 1960, the Irish manufacturing industry, especially textile, had a significantly better growth record than agriculture output and exports of textile and hosiery were growing well ahead of the target. New foreign-owned firms were making a significant contribution to export earnings. And this would explain what John had experienced in his working year.

Johnny: (12:16)

All of that is gone no longer. Ireland has very little textiles and Ireland is now a couple of boutique bespoke people that do very high-quality silk wool. Donegal still has, a traditional weaving base and they do some very sophisticated clouds. But by and large, Ireland and indeed the UK have very little textile manufacturing.

Nicole: (12:37)

You have seen the peak and the low. How did it happen and how do you feel from seeing: ''Oh, this is so many, this is going on'' and as you go on, things are kind of disappearing?

Johnny: (12:48)

Well, I think, you know, there was a cycle in the sixties and seventies and eighties, any kind of factory manufacturing that could provide employment was supported by the government. The idea is to support English-speaking areas. The people I was with were Irish-speaking. There was a huge effort in Textiles and other engineering. Projects were brought to the Irish-speaking areas, we were able to manufacture at a base that we could sell in any market and make a profit on it. Then, in later years, the bigger retail people done store pennies and stuff like that could buy the product in Morocco, Madagascar, Mauritius, and subsequently China at one-third of the price that we could manufacture it. So you can't push water up a hill. Then, the industry declined and it became the big IT and pharmaceuticals replaced the textile industries. My final work was with a warehousing company distributing carpets and wooden floors. Then I was a building manager in the city and then I moved on and my final job was as a security customer man in a mall.

Nicole: (14:12)

We hear John's story of his career in textile. I would like to see what was Pat's story like. How did you get to become the air hostess and what made you stop? And then what happened afterwards?

Pat: (14:23)

When I came back from Germany. I had German, which helped me to get into Aer Lingus. I applied for Lingus and I got into Lingus, and I worked as an air hostess for about two years. I think I left it in 1970 to get married. But when I left Aer Lingus in 1970, I could not go back to working full-time as a married woman.

Nicole: (14:47)

According to the Irish Congress of Trade Union, the marriage bar requires a single woman to resign from their job upon getting married and disqualifies married women from applying for a vacancy in the public sector. In 1870 women first became public servants, and then they received permanent contracts in 1893. Gosh, that took 23 years. But that contract would terminate on marriage. If women were forced to retire on marriage, then they would not remain in the service long enough to raise very high in the salary scale. And this is why the government did it. The marriage bar was primarily a cost-saving initiative. Also, the bar reflected a social attitude that it was a husband's duty to support his wife. The married woman's place was in the home. While private and semi-state employers were not legally obliged to apply the marriage bar, it was widespread practice to include a clause in the letters of appointment to female workers that their employment ended once they were married. For example, Aer Lingus, which is the company that Pat worked for, and two of the largest employers, Jacobs Biscuits and Guinness Brewery. Thanks God. The marriage ban was abolished. It was abolished in 1973 for the civil service and wider public and semi-state sector based on the recommendation of the commission, on the status of women and the shift in public opinion on working wives. In 1977, the marriage bar was finally abolished in public, the private sector, when European law made it illegal to discriminate against employment on the grounds of sex and marital status. While marriage bars were commonplace throughout Europe, America, and beyond, from the late 1800s, Ireland was one of the last countries to lift bans on hiring married women and demising women on marriage.

Nicole: (17:14)

Guys, we are listening to firsthand history as Ireland was one of the last countries to have women alive today who were personally affected by the marriage bar and Pat is one of them.

Pat: (17:27)

So that's it. I just could not go back to work with Aer Lingus. We were in Westport then and then we went down to Cork, and we were married for two years before we had any family, anywhere. We went to work in the factories that Johnny was looking after. At that time, it would've been a small rural area, and possibly it would only have been the factory there. So I couldn't go to work in the factory being the boss's wife. So for two years, I didn't do that much. And then my child Rory came along then after two years, so I had him to look after. Then another child came the following year, so then I had two children. I spent my time looking after the family. And then my 3rd one came about three years later. So yeah, I looked after the family and was a stay-at-home mom.

Nicole: (18:18)

Staying at home mom is a full-time job.

Pat: (18:20)

Yeah, I was. With three children, three small children.

Nicole: (18:23)

When did the law come about to say that married women can work again?

Pat: (18:28)

I left in 1970. In 1973, they changed the law. So I could have come back after 1973. Yeah. But at that time, the children were, were born. So I didn't go back. Then I stayed at home.

Nicole: (18:41)

How old were you when you finished?

Johnny: (18:42)

I was 72.

Nicole: (18:44)

Oh, it was only four years ago that you retired. How about you, Pat?

Pat: (18:48)

I think I must have been about 70. I retired a few years early because I was a receptionist in the building and the building was knocked down. The company I worked for had nowhere else for me to go. So when that building closed, I, decided to retire and I was 70 at that stage.

Nicole: (19:08)

What keeps you going for so long? What was your favourite part of keeping working?

Johnny: (19:13)

Well, I think to keep working was out of necessity. We needed money to keep going and my corporate pension didn't pay a lot, and I waited to get onto my state pension. We downsized and we had enough money to spend to enjoy ourselves, to run a car, to go on holidays. We also have grandchildren now, and we've less time now than we had when I was working.

Nicole: (19:41)

We briefly talked about the pension, could you share the story of how you feel?

Johnny: (19:45)

A whole lot of companies at the time, we were probably progressive in so far as the companies had started pension schemes for our retirement. We put a few bob into it. The companies put money into it. The final deal was that we would retire on a respectable pension. When I left the company, I got some money out of it, but the remaining pension fund was no longer there. So I was one of many people who didn't get a pension. You know, all you can do, if you were a very big company, the government would've probably supported you. If you were a small company, the legal costs of getting people to represent you, to chase something that you didn't know whether it was there or not. I just said that's it. Let's get on with it.

Nicole: (20:36)

So easier said then done. That is such a positive attitude that you had. How do you feel? And you were like, that's okay.

Johnny: (20:45)

Yeah. Well, I could have got a gun and gone and shot a couple of people and maybe got great satisfaction, but that wasn't a way forward. My wife and I are both working, we both had our health and we said we could survive. Maybe not at the level we would've liked to, but you know, other people were less fortunate than us and other people were more fortunate. We took our line, we stuck at it, and we are here. And, we're still together. We have a lot of friends. We enjoy ourselves. I have no complaints.

Nicole: (21:17)

Wow. That's, that's actually a very impressive story to listen to. How do you feel about that, Pat?

Pat: (21:23)

Yeah. There was nothing you could do. I mean, that money was gone, the pension was gone. So the only thing you could do was to keep working and try and build up a bit of savings. I had a small pension from the job I was in at the time, but I'd only been in it for about 17 years, so I hadn't got that large. You just have to keep going. I mean:

Nicole: (21:45)

I think that's the attitude: keep going. We got to the story of you guys meeting and then seeing each other, getting a football game, and then going to a dance. Then when did you come back, John, and when did you propose, and how do you know Pat is the one?

Johnny: (22:01)

Pat's mom was from Kerry. I tell this story, which is not true. She was affectionately known as Granny. She was Pat's mom, a great friend, a fantastic woman. She privately said to me that Pat always wanted to get married, to whom I didn't know, but her mom said she'd like Pat to have a Kerry man as a husband. And she gave me a small sum of money and I agreed, no, that's a joke. Pat and I were good friends. Pat was in Dublin, I was in May. I was up and down to Dublin. Again, it would have to be associated with rugby on the 14th of March, 1970. , I can remember it well, the reason I can remember it well is I got engaged on that Saturday, we were in a pub after a rugby match, which I'll tell you a story about in a minute.

Johnny: (22:59)

I left the pub for a little while and I came back. I had asked Pat's mom if she would give me Pat. She said she'd be delighted to. I never got the money, but that's not important. We got engaged on the 14th of March, and another significant thing on that day was Wales came to Ireland as raging favourites to the old lands down the road and Ireland beat them for the very first time, 14 points to nil. A pal of mine who was in college in Newcastle from the City of Derry got excommunicated from Rugby Union because he played Rugby League, but his name was Kenny Goodall. And he scored, the winning one. Ireland beat Wales. Very significant.

Nicole: (23:46)

And how do you know he was the one?

Pat: (23:49)

I didn't know he was going to propose that night, but we had been together for a good few years at this stage, you know and you just know who was the one and who's not the one, but as say, we'd known each other for quite some time at this stage. So yeah. But I didn't know he was gonna propose that day. No, I didn't know he'd ask my mother either for my hand until later on.

Nicole: (24:10)

. Were you worried she was gonna say no?

Johnny: (24:13)

Well, I wouldn't be presumptuous but I always thought if I told a good story to Pat's mom she would say, well, you know, A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!

Nicole: (24:26)

How long have you guys been together now?

Johnny: (24:30)

53. We are married 53 years: third of this coming October, 2023.

Pat: (24:36)

We got engaged in March of 1973. We got married in October of 1973. It was a short engagement. There was no point in making a long engagement, you know, we decided to get married, so got married.

Nicole: (24:48)

What's the secret of staying together for 50 + years from your eyes?

Johnny: (24:54)

From my eyes, and I've seen it many times with life's experience. I'm the person that Pat fell in love with. Pat accepted me for who I was, I'm not perfect, far from it. We live independently within our own minds. We live together in the relationship we have together, which is fantastic. And again, Pat is the lady I met, I never made any change, she was perfect, didn't need to change her. She's a great support. I would never have achieved some of the things I achieved without Pat's support. And, we get together, we have differences and we're still good friends.

Nicole: (25:40)

You said there are some things that you achieved because of Pat's support, what were they?

Johnny: (25:44)

Well, I spent quite a bit of time away from home. When the kids were younger, because we were building the factory in Donegal, which I referred to earlier. I could be away at weekends, I could be away for a week here and there. At one stage I was 12 weeks in Canada.

Nicole: (26:01)

How old were the kids?

Johnny: (26:02)

We only had two at the time which were three and two.

Nicole: (26:06)

Wow. 12 weeks in Canada. Yeah. How did you feel being so far away from all of them?

Johnny: (26:10)

I did it. It was difficult, but I had to find out the walking of the Canadian company, who they were, and what they were doing. I was exposed to a lot of new management ideas and a lot of manufacturing ideas. You know, again, it was an opportunity for me from a selfish point of view. But Pat accepted it and said, you know, she stood by me and supported me.

Nicole: (26:35)

Oh, how about you, Pat? After listening to that?

Pat: (26:39)

I do agree with, not trying to change the person, maybe a little bit, but not to change the person too much, actually the person that you marry, because that's obviously one of the reasons you marry them because of who they are. Yeah, We get on well together. We've been together now for a good few years. I had friends when I worked at my last job. I had myself and my girlfriends. We used to go away on holidays and that would've been the first time I would've gone away on my own, you know? But I just met this group of ladies and we used to go to Spain and all those places on holidays, and it was great actually. Yeah, it was good to do, to do something, you know, different and something outside the home as well as on my own. That is a good thing to do. I think going away on holiday with the girls is a good idea

Nicole: (27:28)

Nowadays, a lot of people, my friends, including myself have a lot of ups and downs in their relationships. When it was low, how did you deal with it?

Johnny: (27:37)

Well, I think what you call it: if you give a personal commitment to a colleague or in a husband and wife relationship or friends who you play rugby and football with, you're going to turn up for training. We are conditioned, not beaten over the head with it. You know, show loyalty, show respect, nothing is easy, you have to put in the hours. No gain, no pain, as they're saying in rugby now. We accepted what we had and it was worth looking after. On the highs, it was fabulous. On the lows, it was difficult, but the day after the low, it was again fabulous. So you have to apply yourself. Nothing is easy. I have seen nothing, in life that if you value it, that it's easy. There's a little bit of effort that goes in, and there's continuous effort goes into any relationship.

Nicole: (28:37)

How about you, Pat?

Pat: (28:38)

Yeah, I agree. I mean, it can't always be plain sailing. I mean, 53 years together, there's bound to be ups and downs, but you just go through, you learn to take the ups and the downs, and you work your way through it. It can be difficult at times, but you just have to do it. There was no other way other than working our way through it.

Nicole: (29:00)

So how did it work? Let's say you had a fight. Do you just talk it out?

Pat: (29:04)

Talk it out? Not always talk it out. But we worked, we worked through it all the same, you know, and we came out the other end of it. So it never lasted very long, anyway, . Aw.

Nicole: (29:15)

How about when you guys have kids? How did the relationship evolve? How many kids do you have?

Johnny: (29:22)

We have 3, 2 boys and a girl. First a boy and a girl, then a boy. Of course, it made a difference, child number one gets more attention because there's more time. Child number two had to share the time with child number one, and child number three was a little bit later. So the other two, particularly his sister looked after the younger. We have a super relationship with the kids. They've all been high achievers, we never decided that they should be rugby players or football players or doctors or dentists or anything like that. They took career paths, we supported them. Our youngest son is in the filming business. God be good to my mom. She thought that was not a great job. She used to say to him, Brendan, when are you going to get a real job?

Johnny: (30:14)

When Dad died, he was the young fellow that went down. He stayed with her in Kerry, and looked after my mom, particularly well. Brendan used to light the fire, put out the ashes, and do the shopping for her. Obviously, it was accompanied, but she was very fond of all of them. But I think particularly Brendan in the finish. They all had respect. Was very funny, we have a story. When they were at school, they had three grannies and the teacher asked us at a parent-teacher meeting, how come the kids have three grannies? There must be one of them an aunt or something. I said, no, Granny Murphy was my grandmother. So she was their great grandmother and she lived to be a hundred. Then, there was Granny Doyle who was Pat's mom, and that's what she was affectionately referred to. My mom's name was Bridget and she became Granny Bridget. That's how they had three grannies.

Nicole: (31:09)

Wow. What is your greatest passion now? What do you do now with your time?

Johnny: (31:16)

We have this cooking regime. We have a small one-bedroom apartment. During Covid, Pat is a far superior lady in the kitchen, with the pots and pans than I am. What we decided after COVID-19 was that we would cook a week. We had a meeting on a Saturday, and we put 21 recipes together. Seven breakfasts. Seven lunches, seven dinners, we did the shopping for that. We have a couple of signature dinners, one of which you had on Friday night. That fills up time. We go and see the grandchildren. We take them to the bus. Occasionally we babysit. Well, they mind us now, we don't mind them. We always have something to do. We do a lot of walking and we've been looking. This year we went to visit our son for two months in Australia.

Johnny: (32:06)

We are going to repeat it again in a few years' time if we have the legs hands and heads to do it. Hopefully, we will, we get up in the morning, have our breakfast, we walk weather permitting every day. We take holidays, we visit our son around the corner and our daughter is three kilometres down the road. She had a dog until just about a year ago. Unfortunately, the dog died. He used to stay with us if she was away, While she was walking (the dog) I would go and walk the dog. We always have something to do, or we're going somewhere or we're coming from somewhere. We go to the theatre, we go for a drink occasionally, and we eat at home quite a bit. And like you saw on Friday night, we entertain at home. We have Neve and her friend Fiona, who we refer to as a lifetime colleague. They come ''knock knock'' at a particular time. It could be a month, it could be six months. But since Covid, we get together in groups. We watched rugby on the television last night, Ireland was playing South Africa in the World Cup Group qualifier. Our son, Pat and I watched it. We had a lovely evening, a few beers, and a bit to eat. We enjoyed it.

Nicole: (33:24)

You guys loved to entertain because we came down and we were the one (me and Jenny) who was too sleepy and you guys were still going at it. How do you have so much energy?

Pat: (33:34)

We don't get up too early in the morning now anymore. I think walking is a good exercise. I do aqua aerobics one day a week. I think exercise is essential, particularly as you get older too. You know, it keeps the limbs moving and everything. I try to do crosswords. I like doing crosswords too. It keeps the brain active. And as Johnny says, we go out. I love live gigs. We, last year, went to see the Eagles and Garth Brooks in one year. And I've been, we've been to see Bruce Springsteen, I don't know how many times, and we go to the local theatre too now. They would be not so well known but it's a lovely local theater, which is great.

Pat: (34:16)

We go down to Kerry as often as we can. You know, it's a long journey though. Now. That's the only thing. It's five hours and driving to get to Kerry, which makes it worthwhile only when the days are longer. Not in the wintertime while they're short. We have grandchildren too. We look after them sometimes. You know, we go around to our son every Friday afternoon, we go around to our son and we have pancakes and a glass of wine cause that's he makes pancakes for the girls for dinner that night. So we join them for a glass of wine.

Nicole: (34:49)

How do you keep your friendship now? Do you still talk to a lot of friends? Are they in the neighbourhood? Who do you hang out the most with?

Johnny: (34:56)

Well, the most we'd hang out with would be family. Together we do a lot of walking, particularly on the sea front. We meet people and everybody talks to everybody. It's different to the city, we don't know everybody's name but we know a lot of faces. Good morning, good evening, anybody that has a dog that comes over and, the dog obviously doesn't say good morning, but you know that he's friendly. We'd pat him on the head, we'd find his name, what age he is, but still beautiful animals. Things like that. There's always another way. Somebody says something, does something, does a new conversation. We have a small circle of friends. We do a lot of communication by phone with people that we either know through work or through phones.

Johnny: (35:53)

The other sad thing as well, which is life's reality, is we've been to a fair number of funerals of friends of ours, who've gone to the other side, despite believing that there's another person there, even including putting a mobile phone in a coffin. Recently, some people said that they call you from the other side. , we haven't had a call back yet, one of the great things we've done. During lockdown, our friend Jenny, who is one of the reasons we're talking to you, Nicole. We made new friends and we called them Covid friends. It's a terrible name. It's a terrible title for that. We're in a fourth-floor apartment. We are on a balcony, the particular year of COVID was a very good year of weather. We were, from an advice point of view by the Department of Health, you know, stay local. Don't be mixing with people. We just sat on the balcony and chatted with them. Jenny, in particular, was a tremendous somebody to bounce off. Our son and daughter did the shopping for us, but Jenny offered to help. Once Covid left, Jenny came down to us. She's an exceptional, culinary-skilled lady. She did different dishes and dropped them down for us, we had dinner with her and her dad in her apartment. They've had dinner down with us, I have a fairly good collection of whiskeys, and Jenny likes whiskey. All the girls on Friday night liked to sample a whiskey. Jenny's dad loves whiskey. So I suppose, through the medium of whiskey, we'll give a little bit of credit, but Jenny is a special lady, tremendously positive, has a few health issues but never complains. I never heard her complain about anything. She goes swimming at six o'clock in the morning. Must be bloody horrific, the cold. But does Jenny mind? No, that's Jenny

Nicole: (37:47)

The legendary Jenny. I met Jenny while I was backpacking in Africa. I consider myself pretty adventurous, but she's always full of spirit and surprise. FYI. She's that girl with the two belly buttons on the Greyhound Norton show. The friendship between John, Pat and Jenny is the prime example of how valuable to have an intergenerational connection to share your knowledge, share your experience and hobbies with each other. Want to have one like that? Join and explore Beyondhood. The sign-up link is on the show note. 

Nicole: (38:48)

How do you guys keep your good spirit? Because not just physically, you're very well, you know, keep it about, but mentally, like your spirit is so vibrant and, and how do you keep it going?

Pat: (40:12)

Well, I think physical as well as mental, going for walks. We are very lucky where we live. We have so much greenery around us and we have the sea just down the road from us as well. I think it's very good to go walking by the sea. I really love it cause we try to go every day along the sea front. With the grandchildren too. I mean, they're 10 and 8 and the other little boy is eight years old and he's in Australia. They keep you alive too, and they keep you going. Children just particularly the little one, she's no filter. She just asks whatever comes into her head, you know, I think the grandchildren are great to keep your mind active. You know, they're young, they have an active mind themselves, and they ask the questions.

Nicole: (41:57)

If there's one piece of advice, what do you wish the younger generation will know now? And seeing how things have changed.

Johnny: (42:05)

I think in fairness the generation that is now 2023, I think they're high achievers, very positive. They have far more challenges than we had at their age. Unfortunately, I think our media is so negative and I think these young people are so positive to overcome that. People have been like, every morning we switch on the radio, there's a new scam. There's somebody trying to whittle money out of old people. People are trying to cheat. I watch a lot of sports and what disappoints me if I have one disappointment and I don't have many is: that people have achieved things by cheating. I think that's terrible. I think the generation today is as good as or better than we were. They have a totally different number of challenges. You were saying we have lived together for 53 years and hopefully many more years together.

Johnny: (43:09)

Youngsters today have different perceptions, different ones, different pressures somewhere in long-term relationships, somewhere in less long relationships. But I would never judge. They're in that situation. They make a decision. I'm sure they don't take it lightly. I'm sure they don't do it for fun. But, you know, necessity pressures, financial health. I believe now that the society we live in is a pressure cooker and everybody is under pressure. We're fortunate. We're not in that cooker anymore. We are outside it. We have our health. We have enough to keep going. We've both calculated that if we live to be 95, we have enough money in our savings. If we live to be 96, Nicole, I look into you.

Nicole: (43:58)

How about you?

Pat: (44:01)

My advice to young people is to try anything, not to be afraid, to try anything and to be themselves. Don't be afraid to be yourself either.

Nicole: (44:09)

One question I always ask is, if you look back now of your 76 year life, is there anything that, if you could do it one more time, what would it be?

Johnny: (44:18)

Well, my dad had a great analogy. I suppose it was like the man was a national school-educated man, but he had life experience. He said, you come to a crossroads, there's left, right, and straight ahead. If it has no signpost and you make a decision and you go left, well, you can never go back to see what was straight ahead or what was to the right. So to me, I have no regrets what I'd done. Would I do things differently? I don't think so. Would I have done things better? I think yes. Would I have, you know, spent more time doing sport than work? I don't know. But where I am today and I'm looking out the window at the green, I have achieved a lot. Individually, I've achieved a lot with Pat and with our family. Could I have achieved more? I let other people judge.

Nicole: (45:14)

That's so wise. That would be like the title of this podcast. left, right Center. How about you?

Pat: (45:22)

Yeah. The only thing is I never liked school. I didn't like school and I don't think I paid enough attention while I was at school. I think I would if I was given a chance again. I was educated by the nuns and I'm afraid myself and the nuns did not get on at all, actually. So I think, yeah, that would be the only thing: to pay more attention at school.

Nicole: (45:44)

Yeah. So earlier you mentioned there was this place that you get to do another course with regarding your age?

Pat: (45:52)

Ah, yes. That was when I was long married at this stage. The children had actually grown up. It was run by the government. It was called Fás, which means grow in Irish. I wanted to get back into the workplace. You could do courses in this, the government-sponsored courses for you. You actually got paid for it as well. You got money as well. It was a very good idea. Great idea. I did two of them. The first course I was in was mainly for people of my own age. Then I would've been in my fifties. We had course to do and we had tutors in the course, and every one of us that was in that course wanted to be in their course.

Pat: (46:39)

The teachers were amazed because they said we went there to learn something and to get back into the work. They could not believe it. That every one of us was really interested in what was going on. We were more mature at that stage and we wanted to get back into the workplace. We had been out of it for a while. It was a great idea and we loved it. We had great times there. All right. Learned how to use the computer there as well.

Nicole: (47:00)

What were the courses?

Pat: (47:02)

They were called back to work courses, whatever kind of job you wanted to get back into, whether it was the one you were originally in. A lot of it was learning computers as well, because obviously there was no computers when a lot of us had left work. And this was to do the basics with computers as well. Yeah. I had a thing actually, identity company at that stage where I went around to companies. I did IDbadges for them. I had a big machine and laminator and everything.

Nicole: (47:26)

What's next, what do you look forward to?

Nicole: (47:29)

? Yes. Yes. You guys will live long and healthy to a hundred. So by the time you're 96, this podcast will make money and then we'll give loyalty to you,

Johnny: (47:37)

I think the most important thing is to remain healthy. I enjoy what I'm doing at the moment. Maybe set a few more challenges. I don't know. We are going to go on holiday. We're going to enjoy our time. We do have one medium-term objective. It started off as again, a little bit of a story and a joke. There's a 30-year difference between Brendan and myself. Our youngest son. I was 30 when he was born, so I will be 80 in 2027. And we're putting money in a box at the moment. We're going to Australia for his 50th birthday in 2027. That's one of the objectives. Oh, yes. That's on the bucket list.

Pat: (48:29)

Yeah. And we'll both be 80th. So we're going to have a celebration in Australia.

Nicole: (48:35)

Before we finish, is there anything else you want to share, with the audience?

Johnny: (48:40)

I don't know if it was Oscar Wild who said it, I still think at 76, what's the most important thing in life? It still is to love and to be loved.

Nicole: (48:53)

Oh, how about you, Pat?

Pat: (48:55)

Yeah. And I am just so glad that we have our health that, you know, we can get up every day and go out every day. When we were in Australia with our daughter and a friend, were with us, Neve and Fiona, and we went down to Sydney with them, and they brought us all around Sydney. They were very good. They really were very good at bringing us around Sydney. I think they thought when they went home that we wouldn't be able to find our way around. We would get lost, particularly going through Singapore, which we didn't, we managed quite well when they were there as well. So having our health!

Speaker 4: (49:30)

As I shared at the beginning of the episode, this was the day when my sister called and tell me about my grandpa. After talking to her, I continued the episode with John and Pat. I asked John a very emotional, but real question, John, are you afraid of death now? Where do you think we will go after this world? And here is his response.

Johnny: (49:05)

We speak the Irish language when we were at school. Yeah. We did everything through Irish. And this is a prayer book that's a hundred years old. Prayers are in Irish.

Nicole: (49:16)

And do you still pray

Johnny: (49:16)

Pray? Oh, yeah. Oh. And I go to church either Saturday or Sunday. Pat goes sometimes, but not always. I still go regularly. I had a belief as a young man that my dad would never die. He died, and then subsequently my mum died. Pat's mom died. Pat's dad died. And there were people that you were moving around with like we are now. And the next thing mortality has proved to you. But a custom, which is in rural islands is when somebody dies, they get a little photograph of the person that's dead. My granny, my uncles, my aunts, people that we knew mortuary - can get them from the bedroom for you. Just to show you what people keep a record of, of people who have passed away. You have a memory of them and there's a little prayer to them. And obviously, we all assemble at the funeral. You sympathize with the family as my uncle, my mom's brother who lived on the farm where my mom was born in Galway.

Nicole: (50:19)

Wow. 1918. Wow. It's like a memory card to remember the people who lived.

Johnny: (50:26)

Oh yeah. Ireland. It's, it's a Catholic thing.

Nicole: (50:29)

Do you think faith has an impact on you?

Johnny: (50:33)

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I think what it does first of all, as kids, is discipline. You know, we got washed on a Saturday and we put on new clothes on a Sunday, and we went and we met people that we would never meet during the week. And we noticed that when we went back on holiday. You meet people that you wouldn't meet other than at Mass because not everybody goes to the pub. Not everybody goes shopping at the same time. But I believe I studied maths to a fairly high degree. And mathematically the world is balanced. There's a balance to it. I think what you call it, God, Muhaad, whether you are Hindu, Muslim, whatever like I said, that a vicar when we were in college drew the circle.

Johnny: (51:26)

A little circle in the middle, and all the little rivers eventually go to the ocean. So it's an energy. Yeah. I think somebody that has it maybe has a little bit more resilience, a little bit more ability to think naturally. Because like you're asking me now, no matter what religion you are, somebody challenges it. Not to think that you're stupid or things like that, but you want to know a little bit more about it. Yeah. Because it's part of me. Yes. It's a very positive thing. Is it always right? No. Has there been a lot of wrongdoings? Well, my belief is God didn't do the wrongdoings. The people who felt that God represented them, did the wrong, not God. You know, the paedophiles and the churches, the murderers, the robbers and things like that, they're not God. You know, some people in a narrow strip would say, well, if God is so good, why doesn't he stop these people doing bad? That's not what the world's life and reality are about. God is about a being and energy we believe in. And what happens when I die this evening? Or I die a hundred years from this evening, or 10 years from this evening, the physical person that I am no longer exists. It's gone. But mathematically they have proved if you wear the body

Johnny: (51:59)

At death and immediately after it, it's 22 grams lighter, physically, mathematically, calculatable. Some people call that spirit, soul energy, I don't know. I'm not qualified, nor have I done enough research theologically or physically, but mathematically, it's a loss of weight. People will tell you that don't believe it's moisture that leaves the body. Moisture doesn't leave as quickly as that. There's some part of somebody 22 grams less. Instantaneously as they die. What is it? I don't know. But it's a question mark. Yeah. So somebody might come along and say to me, Johnny, that's what it is. Yeah. And I said, geez, I never thought that you know, that they weighed him without his shoes or without his knickers, or without his socks, or without whatever. Yeah. So fate is that you believe in something that could be positive. It's an escape. It's a challenge, it's a discipline. So I think all those things are good.

Nicole: (52:13)

Yes. You know, I think faith, as you say, is a different thing to different people. Absolutely. Having believed something that's greater than you. Yeah. I think it's a great thing. Because how did we all come upon?

Johnny: (52:25)

You see an evolution, now you know, that they had a clone of a sheep. They have also now created a cell, a human cell that could become embryonic. A lot of people would say, you shouldn't interfere with the natural order, but if the natural order is to be protected, you know, you have to interfere with it. How does it happen? And I think, like cancer to me is an unsolved thing. People get cancer, they get a bit of remission. I don't know anybody that has had cancer that hasn't died, eventually, yeah. Would they have died without it? Yes, they would. Of course. Would they have lived longer without it? I think they would. So if you are positive and you believe in positivity and you think faith is then easily identified as positive. But like I say, the media today wants negativity. Negativity is more sensational than positivity.

Nicole: (53:27)

Thank you so much for being on the podcast and good to see all of you. Thank you.

Johnny: (53:32)

Thank you, Nicole. Bye bye. Thank you. Nicole

Nicole: (54:38)

Before you leave, if you love this episode, please stay tuned for our next one. If you haven't done so, please follow Beyondhood in your favorite podcast listening app. Or you can follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn. If you found this conversation inspirational or interesting or valuable, chances are you did as you're still listening.

Nicole Suen (55:49):
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Singer (56:00): 
Ending song