Founders' Forum

Courageous Conversations and Career Evolution: Dawn Mahan on Navigating Vulnerability, Entrepreneurial Success, and Project Management Mastery

• Marc Bernstein / Dawn Mahan • Episode 79

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What if the power of courageous conversations could transform both your personal and professional life? Join us as we uncover the bravery behind these honest discussions with insights from our guest, project management expert Dawn Mahan. Known for her transparency and spiritual preparation, Ang shares her personal journey towards clarity, while Marc Brookland emphasizes empathy and the importance of being ready for anything. Dawn opens up about her own vulnerability journey, recounting her experiences of sharing her entrepreneurial story and the strength that comes from being open.

Dawn's career journey is a testament to the unpredictable yet rewarding paths life can take. Inspired by her father's work ethic, she initially pursued mathematics but found herself diving into the world of IT during the Y2K era. An unforeseen opportunity in project management paved her way to success, illustrating the importance of adaptability, learning, and growth. Listen in as she reveals how combining known skills with new challenges led to her impactful career in project management.

From managing large-scale projects in a Fortune 500 company to launching her own successful consulting business, Dawn's story is filled with entrepreneurial challenges and triumphs. She shares her insights on the crucial role of selecting the right people for project roles and the benefits of an apprenticeship model amid evolving technology trends. Looking to the future, Dawn envisions scaling her business while emphasizing the value of self-awareness and therapy for personal and professional success.

About Dawn Mahan, PMP:
Dawn Mahan, PMP is Founder of PMOtraining.com, a C-suite advisor, award-winning consultant, international speaker, inventor or ProjectFlo®, author of the new bestselling book “Meet the Players in Projectland: Decide the Right Project Roles & Get People on Board” and has trained thousands of professionals around the world.

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Announcer:

The following programming is sponsored by Marc J Bernstein. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, its management or Beasley Media Group. Entrepreneur, author and financial consultant, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing entrepreneurial business owners create a vision for the future and follow through on their goals and intentions. Ang Onorato is a business growth strategist who blends psychology and business together to create conscious leaders and business owners who impact the world. Founders Forum is a radio show podcast sharing the real stories behind entrepreneurship as founders discover more about themselves, while providing valuable lessons and some fun and entertainment for you. Now here's Marc and Ang.

Marc Bernstein:

Good morning America. How are you? We were just talking about music so I figured I'd sing a little bit. Didn't warm up my voice this morning, so apologize for that. But anyway, good morning Arlo. Good morning Ang. Good morning Dawn. Good morning Marc. We'll hear from all of them in a minute. But, Ang, why don't you take us to our topic of the day and we'll hear from everybody?

Ang Onorato:

Yeah, you know, Marc, we were chatting offline before the show this morning about the concept of what I like to call courageous conversation. So not a lot of people like to think of them, as you know difficult conversations and things of that nature. But I call them courageous because, whether it's personal or in your business life or with our clients, having to have the tough conversations to say things that people may not want to hear or that we might not want to hear the response to it's just a necessary part of life and business. So I am very curious.

Marc Bernstein:

And life outside of business and life outside of business.

Ang Onorato:

Absolutely, probably even more so, especially in the world today, and so we were thinking about that, and I'd love to hear your thoughts, and obviously from the folks on our show today too, because I think we'll have some pretty interesting perspectives about that.

Marc Bernstein:

I'll just tell you my experience with courageous conversations are that I'm good at doing them after a lot of years of practice, but I have to put a lot of thought and energy into them and sometimes it takes energy. When I'm on the precipice of having one, I don't sleep well at night but I end up waking up with a lot of the answers because I kind of, you know, comes kind of comes in the sleep or in meditation and that kind of thing, but there's kind of a spiritual readiness that has to happen for me before I have them. That's what I would say.

Ang Onorato:

Oh, I love that word. You know that that's very true, very, very true.

Marc Bernstein:

Is that a woo-woo moment? That was a woo-woo. Did we get a woo-woo moment?

Ang Onorato:

That's a woo-woo moment. I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you, Marc, I'm rubbing off on you.

Marc Bernstein:

That's right. I don't think you had to rub off too much, but anyway.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

So let's ask Dawn what she thinks about that. Well, when you first said courageous conversations, I was thinking about how I was asked as an entrepreneur to come up with my origin story, and for me it took a lot of courage to speak it out loud and I did have to practice quite a bit. And then I did it in front of a full sold-out ballroom for the first time in South Florida and it took a lot of courage to do that and people ran up and hugged me afterwards. So it was worth it to be vulnerable in front of people. So the advice was good.

Marc Bernstein:

Vulnerability is a great thing to have when having a courageous conversation. Marc Brookland, who we just did a live show on the radio with him earlier how does that occur to you, that whole topic?

Marc Brookland:

Not great, yeah the thing.

Marc Bernstein:

But you're Mr Transparency.

Marc Brookland:

I know that's what's so tough about it. The thing with these courageous conversations is you need to be prepared for anything that might happen. I also spend a lot of time trying to prep. I'll outline my conversation and I'll kind of try to role play on how I think it's going to go. Um, and rarely does it actually go as I planned.

Marc Brookland:

Never probably Right which is why I'm typically so anti-planning just about anything, um, so you really have to try. I try to put myself in the other person's shoes when we're discussing, but these conversations are incredibly important when you're running a business and when you have a family, so you just have to do your best to prepare yourself for whatever the outcome is going to be.

Marc Bernstein:

Yeah, different takes on that Very interesting. So well, thanks for all of your input. I do want to introduce our guest, who is Dawn Mahan, coming to us from the Florida Keys. Dawn, her initials after her name are PMP. She will explain that to you, but she's a project manager professional. Oh, I just explained it. There you go. So founder and CEO of PMO Training and author of her new book, meet the Players in Project Land, decide the Right Project Roles and Get People on Board. So congratulations on the book, dawn, because you were still in the process when we first met and welcome Good morning.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

Thank you so much. Good morning, and you guys can't see this, but I do have a Phillies shirt on right now, so Ang and I were rapping about that, so my heart is. New favorite guest status, that's what that was Love it. My heart is always still in Philadelphia there's. You know, I might be down here in the Florida Keys right now, but I love Philadelphia. I was there for 20 years.

Marc Bernstein:

So so we love that you're in the Florida Keys, although it's hot, just as hot here today as it is down there, probably but although you have the Caribbean breezes or the Atlantic breezes, I guess that we don't have, so it's very nice.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

So, dawn, tell us Well and with hurricane season brewing there might be like a little too breezy at times. Yeah, you might get that. That's right. This is what I signed up for.

Marc Bernstein:

You have the big breezes coming Dawn. Tell us your story, because it's very interesting how you got to be doing what you're doing today.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

So I love that you started with Courageous Conversations because it really you know this whole vulnerability around. Well, what's my origin story really started in an interview like this, when I was asked the question, how did you get into project management? Like this, when I was asked the question, how did you get into project management? And usually I tell my. Well, it was the day that Rob called and he told me not to freak out story because I can tell you that one later. But then the interviewer followed it up with was there anything in your childhood that led you here?

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

And I immediately had a flashback of sitting in our empty living room when I was about two years old this must be my earliest, earliest memory and I was arranging my storybooks from small to large.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

Now I couldn't read yet, so I was just trying to create this. You know, odor out of the chaos that was around me, this odor out of the chaos that was around me. And there was chaos because and you might be wondering why I was in an empty Olympia room because my biological mother left and she left with everything except for me and my stuff, and my father came home from the railroad and found me a toddler, alone in the house with nothing left in the house, basically, and so talk about shocking. So I owe everything to my dad, and we'll talk more about that a little bit later. But I realized in that memory that part of what I love about project management is that in the beginning it feels like chaos, and I love creating order out of chaos. So the superpower began on the floor of our empty living room with my storybooks and you mentioned my book, but I love books and I've always loved books so it started way back then.

Marc Bernstein:

Yeah, so that's pretty amazing and I understand that's what you do today. Um, you know, create order out of chaos is it's pretty, pretty profound story. So, and and you know, I'm still almost shaking from when you first told me the story, cause it's unbelievable to imagine a two year old in that situation. Um, and it's, and I also. One of the things that occurred to me is how do you remember that you're arranging your books from small to large? Who who remembers things at two years old? But because it was such a dramatic day in your life, I'm sure is the reason the emotional imprint that it left. So what happened from there? So you obviously grew up, you got into a career in business. Tell us what happened next.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

Yeah. So you know, when I was growing up with my dad you know he's a big railroader, right, and he taught me so much about being scrappy and doing the right thing and working hard, even when all of that is really really hard, and so I, you know, as an entrepreneur, those are some of the things that you need. But he also said to me as he would like, come home dirty and tired from the railroad, he'd put his big hand on my little shoulder and walk by to get to the couch to rest his bones and he'd be like kid, you're going to college, so you don't have to do a job like this. I'm like okay, dad, so my job was to do well in school and so that I could go to college, and I'm so grateful for that experience. You know, I got a mathematics degree with a business minor.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

I thought I wanted to be an actuary, because my college advisor said you know, my math scores were good, which was shocking. And on the entrance exams, and, and, and he said do you know what an actuary is? And I said no, and he goes. It's basically a business person that makes a lot of money. I said what was that last part? Can you sign me up Right? Because I thought I said you know, my dad was like such an amazing hard worker and he did. You know, he put food on the table and a roof over our heads and and so super grateful for that.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

But I thought man it would be pretty cool to have some money. That's Philadelphia scrappiness right there. So, so so I got the mastery Scrappleness. I'm sorry I had to make a pun scrappleness. Scrappleness which my, which my grandmother would cook up.

Ang Onorato:

Yes, yes, mine too, no kidding.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

Much to my vegetarian dismay. Rare it is. Yeah, I never ate it.

Marc Bernstein:

She didn't make me, luckily, but I would go buy it.

Ang Onorato:

It's not the best food stuff in the world, that's for sure it's not the best.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

And if you're listening from outside Philadelphia and you don't know what Scrapple is, trust us, just Google it. Yeah, trust us. Yeah, exactly, not toistics and epidemiology center. It's a department now and that was an awesome environment. But I was like to grow in this career. I got to have to go back to school. I'm like I don't have money to go back to school. I'm still paying for, you know, my bachelor's degree. So so then the year 2000 problem came up. Anybody remember that Right? So I got hired by an IT consulting company as the only woman in the, in the class of people that they were going to train how to do you know some of this programming, so we could save the world which, as you know, we did.

Ang Onorato:

It didn't blow up with the computers.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

Correct Right. We all woke up in the year 2000 and all was well.

Marc Bernstein:

So you had a hand in that.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

Thank you for that I did oh sure, yes, it was.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

You know all those changing of the digits. But that started my IT career and from there I landed in, you know, accidentally, in the project management role, after being in deep in the tech, like deep in Dilberville I mean it was. It was kind of bad in some cases, but and all the jokes are true and so I got this call one day from Rob, who was one of my favorite salesmen, and you know I'm sitting in my desk Now at this time. I was in Wilmington, delaware, on a high rise, and you know, morning, sitting in your desk, like trying to sip the coffee, trying to wake up, you're in an email stupor and the phone rings like this is the desk phone, right? And? And so I pick it up and it's Rob and he's like hey, I only have a couple of minutes, but I don't want you to freak out. I'm like, well, what do you do when you're in your 20s and you know you're ambitious? You start to freak out a little. And he said your boss is going to come for you and I need you to say yes, I need you to say that you will run this project, because I've been working on this deal for a year. We this project, because I've been working on this deal for a year. We landed it.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

They want to send this other guy. Let's call him Jack. Jack is not the right fit. He goes. He's like 100 years old and they have foosball tables in their office. This is not going to work. I need you, I need you. I need you to say yes. And so I said thanks for the warning, rob and I put the phone down and all these butterflies just kind of exploded in my stomach because I didn't want to let him down and I had no idea that project management was even a career option until he called me. Amazing, you just never know what's going to happen, yeah.

Marc Bernstein:

So you got in.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

But then I did a good job, obviously, or I wouldn't be here today and, um, and, and only thanks to Rob's promise, which was we, we won't let you fail and how.

Marc Bernstein:

How did that support you? Because I know it's project management has got to be something that you're naturally good at, but it sounds like there were some challenges along the way oh for sure.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

I mean, I didn't know what I was doing at all. Right, so I got. I got this. I got this advice much later on. That was the best career advice I ever got, which I love sharing. Which is the best next job is 50% what you know and 50% what you don't know, because the 50% what you know is how you can ground yourself and the 50% that you don't know is how you grow, and I just absolutely love that advice.

Ang Onorato:

So, he.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

So the 50% I knew was the tech part, but the 50% I didn't know was the project management part. Yeah, and he and they gave me, uh, uh, what we would now call a coach. But you know they, just they gave me Charlie and Charlie helped, was so kind and patient and helped, helped me stay out of hot water.

Marc Bernstein:

So you had two mentors, in a sense, there to a certain extent.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

Yeah, for sure, and the and the client was lovely. It was a lady, young lady, ambitious client and she was really terrific. So I was very lucky there.

Marc Bernstein:

So how did that job help you move into owner of your own company, which is very successful today, you know? Tell us about the rest of that journey.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

So what happens when you get to run a big project and you do a good job with it is then you get a bigger, hairier, scarier project to run and that just continues until you're running the biggest, hairiest, scariest project in the company. Um, and so I ended up moving into the fortune 500 in philadelphia and, uh, I ended up running that, that gig, which we called the 100100 million bet for the C-suite, and these guys were on MSNBC on the regular. I mean it was very serious. And then we got bought by the Fortune 50. There's always a bigger fish, right?

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

So I had to decide what to do with my life, because the Fortune 50 company that bought us was not in Philadelphia. The best job I could get would be somewhere else. I didn't want to be and I thought I had to do some soul searching, which I most certainly did, and I spoke with 22 trusted advisors of mine that had worked with me when I was in consulting that I respected a lot, that were clients, you know, and all but one who knew me in my darkest days only and who didn't have any risk tolerance at all, anyway, said do it Just go out on your own, just do it.

Marc Bernstein:

Excellent, so I did. That is a great point to break for our commercial for the Sattel Institute and we'll be right back and we'll hear the rest of Dawn's story, the.

Announcer:

Sattel Institute and we'll be right back when we'll hear the rest of Dawn's story. The Sattel Institute is the leading CEO member organization dedicated to corporate social responsibility. Under the vision and leadership of its founder, entrepreneur and philanthropist, ed Sattel, the Institute brings together CEOs in Philadelphia and other cities to support the nonprofit organizations that do heroic work in our communities. The Sattel Institute believes that community is every leader's business. Thank you. Ceo members get the opportunity to share ideas and experience with their peers, like-minded CEOs who believe in the importance of giving back to the community and who understand the benefits companies get from embracing corporate social responsibility. The Sattel Institute charges no dues or fees In order to join, member companies simply make a long-term commitment to the nonprofit of their choice. To find out more about membership and why so many leading companies are now part of the Sattel Institute, visit the organization's website at sattelinstituteorg. Sattel S-A-T-T-E-L-L instituteorg.

Marc Bernstein:

As Ed Sattel says, think we, not just me we are back on founders forum with our guest today, dawn mahan, and my wonderful co-host and john arado. So we were just about to make the jump in your own business, dawn. So what, how, how did you do that?

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

yeah. So you know I well, I could take another PMO director job right, which I love, love, love that job. So I could do that, you know, and I could stay in Philadelphia and do that work. But all these people said I had enough experience to go out on my own and enough energy to make it work. And so that was 2009. And I've been at it ever since.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

I luckily had people that knew me from that organization that had left and gone on to be executives, and they saw in their organizations how they were running projects and they didn't know who else to call and called me and were like, hey, can you help me out? And so that started the consulting side. And then, when you get into the consulting side in those kinds of situations low maturity organizations as far as getting projects done well you start to realize it's because the people aren't equipped to run projects and be participate in projects, lead projects in the right way. And so the training arm then started from there. So both sides of the business feed each other. They, you know the consulting identifies training sometimes, and then the training. Sometimes we just get called for training and then they call us when they're like I look around and I don't see anybody that can get this done.

Ang Onorato:

Yeah, you know, dawn, your story is obviously so captivating for a number of reasons. But what I love if we're looking at it through the lens of kind of exactly what you just talked about from the corporate perspective of project management. I think people kind of misunderstand the importance of what really true project management needs to be in any size organization. Right, I mean, I think some of the biggest flounders that major companies have had would because projects haven't been run well. So when you think about that and as you're spearheading your own business over the last, you know, many years, how do you identify the right people to come into your organization? How do you assess them? How do you deploy them? How do you ensure that you've got the right people doing the right kinds of project management for each one of your clients? Because I'm very aware that there is a very, very fine thread sometimes between a project that just gets done on time on budget versus a project that's done in a way that creates the actual impact that it's supposed to.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

You're so right on, I give you an A plus. I mean, that was beautiful.

Ang Onorato:

I know a lot of people in PMOs, so that's where I'm coming from.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

Yeah, so you know, and it's so true. So for my business, one of the things that we're lucky to have are independent contractors who are great at what they do, who have a particular style and flavor and expertise, because there are that that matchup of style that you talk about is so very important for the leadership of the client and you know our, our consultant to to create that, that magic, that synergy that helps the project to succeed.

Ang Onorato:

You know, despite all of the obstacles that are inevitable in what I like to call project land, yeah, absolutely, and I know we want to talk about this toward the end of the show here, which always comes up too quick, but you know, as you think about the critical role that project management takes in any organization. So, just real quick, what's your thoughts on? How does this impact companies moving forward, before we get to the closing round questions, what are your thoughts on the future of project management?

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

Well, my hope is that people are starting to realize the criticality of it as a skill, whether people have it as just you know in addition to their day jobs, or you have actual professional project managers. You know on the ranks, so that depends on size of business and so forth but I just personally want people to get it as a skill, and not just for the project manager, but for the executives that need to lead projects, for the team members that need to know how to operate as a project team, which can be very different than how you operate in your day job.

Ang Onorato:

Yeah, absolutely, and I'm glad you said that, because I think it's really taken many years to be seen as a vital skill and not just something that you can take team members and say, oh, you're available, so go help run this project right. And it's not all about technology either, that there really has to be the utilization of that. So, as we approach our, as we get into kind of the closing rounds, as we like to say and you've given us so much information already about who you are as a leader and a founder but we'd like to tell us a little bit more about what are some of the challenges that you've overcome in how you've gotten the business to where it is today, that you've overcome in the how you've gotten the business to where it is today. And then tell us a little bit about what. How do you stay curious about the latest in technologies for innovation, whether it's other books that you read, stuff like that. Tell us a little bit about what keeps you current.

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

Well, what keeps me current? I love to read. I just love reading, and I also have sort of that technology background, so I go to conferences and I try to stay up on things and I like to rap with my tech friends about what's up. And, of course, ai is a huge conversation right now, and so that's actually part of the challenge in our I think in our world is many of our young people and you and I love to grow talent right. So many of our young people, how are they going to get the foundational experience they need if some of these jobs are taken by? You know more AI type technologies? You know whatever's going to emerge in the next 10 years, and and so we're actually working on that because we created an apprenticeship model, just like the pipe fitters and the electricians and the plumbers have, because you need the hands-on experience with the humans to be able to lead projects in the trenches, and so the apprenticeship program is something I'm really, really excited about as we look into the future.

Marc Bernstein:

I was going to ask you about your 10-year vision. That's obviously a part of it. Is there anything you'd like to add to that?

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

Yeah, so I was listening to a past episode actually about, you know, about people that don't ever want to give up. You know they're working and I actually would love to give up working. I've been working since I was 12. So I would love to continue to scale this business over the next 10 years for a lucrative exit and really leave a legacy of this ecosystem that we have, that we're assembling scrappily, scrappily, and you know we've got the Project Guru Press, which launched the book, the Academy Project, guru Academy PMO Training, obviously, and some other pieces we're putting in place too that are part of that ecosystem that I believe is really going to help the world combat the problem that most projects fail.

Marc Bernstein:

Well, I love that for several reasons, because one of the things we do is help people have lucrative exit strategies, so we can talk about that when we're sunning in Florida at some point. I wanted to ask you also I know you wrote a book I'm interested in. What book are you currently reading?

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

So I read in the morning and at night and, if I'm lucky, you know, like on the weekends during the day. So my morning books right now are I read the daily passage from the Daily Stoic from Ryan Holiday. Oh, I love that, love him. Daily reflection into, into the philosophy. And then I also found in a closet that my brother left, that don't sweat the small stuff, and it's all small stuff by richard carlson, and so I've been enjoying passages from that in the mornings and then at night. To make my brain stop, I read fiction and I read weird fiction. Um, currently I'm reading a dean dean coots book and I've been reading dean coons since I was a teenager. So I'm just always rolling through some kind of fiction to get my brain to stop.

Marc Bernstein:

I think Ang has one more question for you, and then we're going to wrap it up.

Ang Onorato:

Yeah, and this is a question we love to ask our guests, but I think your answer is going to be really phenomenal. Based on your story, what is one thing or something that you would tell your younger self?

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

I would say that when your parents so my my father remarried a wonderful woman, who's my angel, she's my mother. I call her my mother. Now they came to me when I was a teenager and said do you, do you want to go to therapy? And I said I'm not crazy, I'm not going. And I I would dial that back and I would tell my younger self to say thank you for the offer. Yes, please, because know thyself is one of the keys to success, and it took me many years of hard knocks that I think I could have, you know, helped myself with some therapy early on. Reach.

Marc Bernstein:

Well, as the author of the fiscal therapy solution that I am, you know, I believe everybody should have some kind of therapy. Look, and it's because of Know Thyself, so I couldn't have said that better. I think it's really great. So I think that's a wrap. Ladies, it's been a pleasure being with both of you here remotely today and we thank all of you for listening to Founders Forum and Dawn real quickly. How can people get in touch with you? Because everybody all our clients, many of our listeners are entrepreneurs looking for project management. So how's the best way to get in touch with you?

Dawn Mahan, PMP :

I'd say LinkedIn is a great place to get in touch with me. You can, you know, connect with me and message me on LinkedIn, and I'd love to. I always love to hear about what kind of projects people are doing, so just even have a friendly chat, happy to help.

Marc Bernstein:

Well, that's great and that's how we met on LinkedIn, so it is a great way to meet is on LinkedIn, so very nice. Thanks again for being here. Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week on Founders Forum.

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