Through the Haze: a Journey with 'White Smoke'| BLK Girl Reads Book Club Podcast Ep. 7

Prepare to be swept away by an emotional whirlwind in our latest episode of BLK Girl Reads Book Club Podcast, featuring the hauntingly powerful "White Smoke" by the incomparable Tiffany D. Jackson.

🌪️🖤 In this gripping psychological thriller, we dive deep into the darkness of the human mind alongside Marigold. With every page turned, we're drawn into a tumultuous storm of emotions, secrets, and the raw intensity of life's struggles.

Tiffany D. Jackson's writing is a force of nature, compelling us to confront our deepest fears and inner demons. 🌊🌫️ Her storytelling artistry leaves us breathless, questioning reality and seeking solace in the shadows of the unknown.

As we explore the depths of "White Smoke," we'll unravel the tangled web of truth and deception, leaving our hearts heavy and our minds racing. This heart-rending journey will challenge us, move us, and awaken dormant feelings.

Join our book club's vulnerable and heartfelt discussion as we delve into the character's psyche and the heart-wrenching themes that resonate with the human experience. 🕯️💔 The echoes of "White Smoke" will linger long after the last word is spoken.

Tune in now to experience the emotional upheaval of "White Smoke." This is a story that will leave an indelible mark on your soul.

Share this emotional episode alert with your fellow readers and seekers of truth. Let's journey through the storm together and find the light within the shadows.

Happy reading and listening,

# young adult
# black literature
# horror
# reviews and recommendations
# fall

Transcript

Jann: 0:01

Marigold is running from ghosts, the phantoms of her old life. Keep haunting her, but a move with her newly blended family from a small California beach town to the embattled Midwestern city of Cedarville, might be the first start she needs. Her mom has accepted a new job with a sterling foundation that comes with a free house, one that Mary now has to share with her. Ready. 10 year old stepsister Piper, the renovated picture. Perfect home on Maple Shree. Sitting in between two dilapidated houses surrounded by weary neighbors, has its secrets. That's only half the problem. Household items vanish. Doors open on their own lights turn off shadows, walk past rooms. Voices can be heard in the walls, and there's a foul smell seeping through the vents. Only Mary seems to notice worse. Piper keeps talking about a friend who wants Mary gone, but running from ghosts. It's just the metaphor, right? As the house closes in, Mary learns that the danger isn't limited to Maple Street. Cedarville has the secrets too, and secrets always find their way through the cracks. Okay, welcome to the podcast everybody. So White Smoke by Tiffany D. Jackson.

Joi: 1:12

Mm-hmm.

Jann: 1:13

How do you guys like it? Joy. You wanna go first?

Joi: 1:17

Ah, I'll give it a two and a half. Yeah. If you told me it was the same author from last week, I, I'm surprised. Did not enjoy it too much.

Jann: 1:28

Okay. Okay, Jackson? Um,

Jax: 1:32

I'd say like 3.5.

Jann: 1:36

3.5. All right. All right. I would give it a five.

Jax: 1:44

Yeah.

Jann: 1:44

Honestly, I've been going back and forth if I wanna do like a four and a five star. So I'll give it a four and a half stars, four and a half, and you'll have to excuse me, I jumped right into the ratings and I forgot to do introductions.

Joi: 1:56

Yeah.

Jann: 1:57

So I'm your host, Jan,

Joi: 1:59

And I'm your cohost, joy. Woo.

Jann: 2:03

and we have a guest around this time. You wanna introduce yourself.

Jax: 2:06

I'm Jackson, the coolest guy on this whole podcast ever.

Jann: 2:10

Okay,

Joi: 2:11

this podcast.

Jann: 2:13

that's very true. All right, so we're going with two and a half. Three and a half. Four and a half. All right. So I'm just gonna give our spoiler warning now, because if you haven't read it and you don't wanna know what's going on, you should log off now. all right. So who wants to go first and explain their rating?

Joi: 2:35

I didn't like it, it has spooky moments. but that's all I can really say about it. I didn't care for Marigold, didn't care for, Piper didn't, well, Sammy was kind of cute, but it's just like, I didn't find the main character Marigold a likable character, you know, at all. she just seemed very like, um, annoying throughout

Jann: 2:58

you have a role of rating because you didn't find any, like, connection with the characters.

Joi: 3:02

None. Yeah.

Jann: 3:04

Okay. Jax, a quick overall explanation of your rating.

Jax: 3:10

So I feel like mine is actually the opposite that. The ratings higher because I did like the characters. I didn't like marigold it. It's not that she was like, well, she was kind of like standoffish the whole time and it did start getting annoying. But it's more that Sammy and Yusuf were just so good that they saved the book on top of that, like they had interesting themes, but personally I feel like they didn't dig into it enough to really justify being there and to be an aspect of the story as well as I just have issues with the ending

Jann: 3:45

Okay.

Jax: 3:45

and it was really

Jann: 3:46

All right.

Joi: 3:47

It stopped. It was abrupt, right? An abrupt

Jax: 3:49

It was, I hated that.

Jann: 3:51

I think it's interesting and you both said you didn't like Marigold because I feel like I enjoyed the main character and I actually like the ride. I know have said multiple times on this podcast that I don't read scary books. This was just scary enough for me. Like it was scary enough to be creepy and I like was scared legitimately like could not get out of bed when I was reading it, but I actually read it at night, like under the blankets and it was a fun time and it wasn't so scary that like I couldn't sleep. So that was nice. It was just the right amount.

Joi: 4:24

it was not scary. Jan, like, I feel like our

Jann: 4:27

All right, joy, let's get, let's hear your recap. I don't wanna hear about how you thought it wasn't that scary. Let's hear the.

Joi: 4:36

so white smoke. So we have Marigold and Sammy, brother and sister. Um, I think Sammy's like, how old was he? Like eight, nine. He's a youngin.

Jax: 4:46

well, he was in middle school, wasn't he?

Jann: 4:48

Yeah, he was like 13

Joi: 4:50

Really?

Jann: 4:50

because Piper was 10.

Jax: 4:52

Yeah.

Jann: 4:53

Joy, this is why you can't do recaps. I would, I would expect you to do at least a little bit of reviewing before you did the recap.

Joi: 5:01

Lemme tell you something. The way that I pictured Sammy, he just seems so adorable. Like, okay. You know? Um

Jann: 5:08

real quick?

Joi: 5:09

hmm.

Jann: 5:10

Piper was obviously the youngest, and I literally just said her 10 year old sister in the synopsis. So you didn't even listen to the synopsis if you thought he was eight or nine.

Jax: 5:20

you clearly have an issue with the illiterate. Let's, let's dig into that

Joi: 5:25

No, I was thinking, um, the little brother Antonio, the little cousin from, um, uh, what's that one? Uh, Maribel. What's that? What's that? What's that? Not Disney movie, Encanto. That little boy, Antonio. That's who I pictured this whole time at Sammy.

Jann: 5:43

That was silly because he was a full blown middle schooler. Now continue. Let's see what else you got wrong.

Joi: 5:52

So Mary Gold and Sammy brother and sister, um, their mom is Raquel. They, um, they're moving away from California with their new stepdad, Alec and his daughter Piper. Um, and it's because the mom, Raquel has a new opportunity'cause she's a, um, a, a writer or an architect or something like that. Um, Yeah, she, so she got an opportunity to live in this really nice free home,'cause a historical build or something like that for free. So they're all moving out there. Um, apparently this is right after Marygold had like an overdose. Um, like I don't know what she took. I forgot what she took. Um, but, uh,

Jann: 6:36

It was weed laced with fentanyl.

Joi: 6:38

yeah.

Jax: 6:39

it was fentanyl. I don't know why I had ketamine in my head.

Joi: 6:45

Yeah, me either. Uh, um, but basically, um, they're trying to get settled. The house is spooky, ooky. The movers don't wanna stay there very long after dark. once they start going to school and everything, things still are kind of weird. Piper, Mary, girl and Sammy don't really get along. Um, Alec is. Alec is clueless. He's just a clueless white guy basically. And always like taking up for his daughter who's kind of a bratt no matter what happens. And um, Markel is just kind of there. Um, Marigo, she meets Erica and Yusef and Erica. She smokes weeded and that's what she's been honing for since she left California like an addict. Every two minutes she needs some weeded. Um, she hasn't figured out where to get it'cause apparently there was this whole violation with the city or whatever, outlawed for a while. Um, and she gets the idea to just grow it in one of the abandoned homes, near her house.'cause her house is the only one that's not abandoned, right on this street, maple Street. she's doing that and that's how she met Yusef to get supplies for her garden because her parents don't trust her with her money or anything like that after she overdosed. Um, and spooky things happen. It turns out someone's living in their house, two people, Ms. Sugar and hi and her son, and that's it. That's how it cuts off at the end.

Jann: 8:14

What I don't understand that is not true. What I don't understand about your recaps joy is that you give so much unnecessary detail that I feel like you just get tired of talking and skip to the end. Like you never actually talk about the plot of the book. Like, what are you, why do you have to give everybody's career and ages that you always get wrong? Like what?

Jax: 8:37

feel like I, I got people's astrology sign, but I don't know anything about the city.

Jann: 8:42

Exactly like, but joy, what's the book about though?

Joi: 8:45

Listen. Listen, it is my summary and I do it the way I wanna do it.

Jax: 8:51

Well, yeah, we know it's your summary. That's why it's wrong.

Jann: 8:58

All right, well, we kind of started talking about it, so let's actually give a rating for how scary you guys thought it was since that's so controversial. Out of five stars,

Joi: 9:07

One.

Jann: 9:08

I think it was a solid three and a half stars, which I, that's where I want my scary, and I'm very happy with that.

Jax: 9:18

I am, I'm going to go with Joy. I'm also, I'm going to be giving it a one. And that's partially why my, score for the book overall was so low. It was supposed to be a horror story. And I, it's not even the sort that like, oh, well if you think about it's scary. It was, like a, uh, campfire story, if anything,

Jann: 9:40

Yeah, exactly.

Jax: 9:41

it was just quaint. It wasn't scary at

Jann: 9:44

level scary. That's fun. Anything else is too scary.

Jax: 9:48

it's, that's fine. When you're five.

Joi: 10:06

Yeah,

Jann: 10:07

just don't understand why it was necessary. Jackson? No.

Jax: 10:09

mean, it just wasn't even spooky for me personally.

Joi: 10:14

I feel like I've personally had spookier instances of ghost encounters than this book. Honestly. I'm just like, that's nowhere near as bad as what I actually live. So I'm not really that scared.

Jann: 10:24

like the scariest part was

Joi: 10:27

Um, Piper, when they're trying to leave the house, like when, um, this, like Sammy's voice calling for a marigold and he is like, I'm not, that's not me. Get in the closet. And then Piper's just like looking at her down the, at the bottom of the stairs and then like looks off and then walks away. I'm like, that bitch is haunted. Yeah.

Jann: 10:48

Yeah, that was scary. Well, it wasn't like her wasn't as scary to me, but like them listening to his voice was very scary to me.'cause I've had instances like that

Jax: 10:59

That was definitely the, uh, peak in horror for this.

Joi: 11:03

No, That part was scary too. But what else kind of like gave me the Oggie Boogie was the part when she was in the, in the kitchen at nighttime and the door was open and then the music started playing and everyone was like, what's going on? But the door was open and she was like, I don't know if I wanna move and make a run for it to go upstairs or what I wanna do, you know?

Jann: 11:23

Looking back on it though, it seems like they accidentally left the door open and someone started the music to distract her so she wouldn't go down.

Joi: 11:30

Mm-hmm.

Jann: 11:31

Like that's what it seems like. But that part wasn't that scary for me. What freaks me out was the alarms. I dunno why that freaked me out so much when it was like rapid alarms going off and it was like, I think it was the psychological factors where they had her freaked out and checking on the beds and then the bedbugs and having her freak out like that. That's, that scared the shit out of me. Y'all go hate on this bug, but I felt like it was a nice little haunted mansion, like from the Disney right moment where you're scared but not terrified. And I genuinely like that.

Joi: 12:04

Haunted mansion? Ain't scary.

Jax: 12:06

is. I don't get scared of the haunted mansion.

Jann: 12:10

that's what

Joi: 12:10

No one does.

Jann: 12:11

spooky, but not terrifying. like Halloween decorations. You get you in the mood for spooky without scaring the literal shit outta you. Perfect.

Joi: 12:22

All

Jann: 12:22

That's what I want.

Jax: 12:24

Alright.

Jann: 12:26

I wish more horror novels were like, this is all I'm gonna say.

Joi: 12:31

man. If horror novels would like this, I would never read them. It wouldn't be scary at all.

Jax: 12:37

Like I don't mind that, like it basically jumped to thriller. That's why I expect from most horror, I just don't feel like it did it so well.

Joi: 12:46

I don't know, like it just the way that it was going. I didn't care for Mary girl constantly feeding for weeded, and I didn't

Jann: 12:53

Oh, well,

Joi: 12:54

Hmm.

Jann: 12:55

since you're talking about the characters again, how about you just tell us your least and favorite and

Joi: 13:00

I think my least favorite would probably be, Whoever the mayor guy was, I don't know his name. He was a villain.

Jann: 13:09

Sterling.

Joi: 13:10

Yeah. And then, my most favorite would probably be, Sammy? Yeah. Sammy,

Jann: 13:19

Okay.

Joi: 13:20

what about

Jann: 13:21

mean self-explanatory as far as Sammy, he was an awesome character.

Joi: 13:25

Yeah. Self-explanatory for the villain ass mayor.

Jann: 13:30

Yeah. Jackson.

Jax: 13:33

My least favorite was Piper and my favorite. I absolutely loved Yusef. He was awesome.

Joi: 13:41

Why didn't you

Jann: 13:42

I disagree with both of those.

Jax: 13:44

Really?

Jann: 13:45

Like not in my top, like Piper is not in my bottom and Yusef is not in my type. But I'm curious. I see your choices.

Jax: 13:53

So like I really did think about it. I was like, okay, well maybe they were saying it's themselves. Piper is just a kid. But even then

Jann: 14:01

She's 10.

Jax: 14:01

you'd have to be and 10, you'd have to be especially stupid just have actual real life people living in your house that you are talking to when dealing with and threatening your family. And just not make anyone aware of this. I just felt like even for a 10 year old, for any person, she was just being completely. Unreasonable and there is unreasonable for children, but we deal with children younger than 10 and they are more reasonable in those situations than Piper was.

Jann: 14:37

Know. I felt like she was telling everybody the whole time that she was real, and no one believed her, and no one liked her at that point either. I just figured, she was like, well, this is my friend. At this point. I've alerted people and no one's listening to me. She's the only person listening to me.

Jax: 14:52

I mean, I suppose, but like she knows her dad listens. He listens to her over everybody

Jann: 14:57

told him. And he kept saying, leave her alone. She has an imaginary friend. And he was like, yeah, it's okay. I know Miss Sugar. Miss Sugar. Like he made it seem like he believed her and just didn't care.

Jax: 15:09

She could definitely do more than just say, oh, it's real. Like you could say, oh, it's real, this and this and this. She's just choosing not to when just being fine with that person creeping around the house.

Jann: 15:22

have said something too. And he was a grown ass man. Like

Jax: 15:26

Wait,

Jann: 15:26

he kept saying, he suspected if you suspect enough to spend every night in your truck outside, you could have said something.

Jax: 15:32

oh, for sure. That's, that was

Jann: 15:34

Well, that's just one of the reasons why she's not in my bottom. First of all, she did alert people. Mr. Watson had his suspicions and didn't say anything, and Mr. Sterling for sure knew and was like plotting on destroying the whole neighborhood and that caring what happened to a little girl who was only 10. So yeah, no way is she in my bottom.

Joi: 15:52

I agree what you're saying because she's a little older to let people just be in the house with your family. But she is still younger to understand if you think that your new step siblings don't like you, your dad just thinks you have an imaginary friend, there's not much more you can do past that, especially being a kid.

Jann: 16:12

I think mostly it's like bad parenting because even when she was saying crazy stuff like I didn't like mess with her things, it was Ms. Sugar, that should have been some disciplinary action. And then she kind of probably would've insisted and you would've checked it out. But instead, they chose to ignore everything that she was complaining about. Like, okay, now she's not being reasonable, so let's just ignore it instead of digging deeper.

Jax: 16:36

if I'm going to edit it, then my least favorite then would just be Alec because his terrible daughter is terrible the whole time and he's not doing anything about it.

Jann: 16:45

Alec was awful. the worst moment as far as characters in the entire book is when he's saying I've had enough your addict daughter like put Piper at risk and was saying all these awful things about a teenager, and then turned around like the next day. The mom was like, well, he's hurt that we had a contingency plan. Like, did you really just call this girl an addict and talked about how she's on drugs, how she's putting everybody in danger and this is the last straw all in front of her face and then be pissed because we predicted it.

Joi: 17:16

Mm-hmm.

Jann: 17:17

Like really? Like that was you as a grown man saying this stuff to a child and you're mad because she said, okay, this isn't working out. I'm leaving.

Joi: 17:26

That, yeah, that was really messed up. I didn't like him the entire time pretty much, but I just figured he was. I watch a lot of scary shows too, and it's always the white dad that's just like, there's nothing going on. Everything's fine, you know? But, at the end he did have a little bit of a character development, like, Hey, you can't talk about my daughter that way. At the end, and I mean, that's just kind of like there, there was worse people in this story. I feel like that makes him not as much a villain to me personally. You know? Like he sucks,

Jann: 17:51

he was possessed he said he knew where the key was and nobody knew where the key was. And she was like, is he going down here the whole time? I'm like, oh, so Alec is possessed. That's why he's acting like a fricking maniac. But no, that was just him.

Joi: 18:03

I didn't think that, I just thought it was just like, oh, it's a white guy. He got the key, he like, you know, ghost shit don't

Jann: 18:09

Well, what about the tooth though? Like when you saw the tooth on the ground and she was like, oh, well, um, Piper is looking like real possessed lately and losing weight and looks frail, but this tooth is too old to be hers. And I was like, it's Alec,

Joi: 18:27

I just thought it was just like, oh, ghost tooth.

Jax: 18:32

I think at that point I kind of called their twist just because this was something that this is something that happens often enough that it just immediately came to mind.

Joi: 18:43

It. It was one of those things where when it came out, whether there were actually people living in, I was like, yeah, I can see it. But I,

Jann: 18:53

They were well into the fight before I realized what the twist was like when they were watching the actual video and they saw, she came out the cabin. I was like, oh, so this is a grudge type ghost. she's like, I did not think it was actually people there. I'm like, they can see this thing.

Joi: 19:12

No, it took me a minute to, I thought she was like a, a gey kind of ghost too, coming out the cabinet when she saw like her scarred arm. And I was like, holy shit, she has the ghost. It's right there. And then she did something. She's like, oh, wait a minute, she's human. I was like, oh, oh, okay. Burns. Okay. Okay. Gotcha, gotcha. I kind of prefer it to be ghosts though. I feel like it would've been spookier if it was actually ghosts and not someone living in the house.

Jann: 19:36

Well, you know how I feel about scary stuff. I prefer a thriller to a, like a possession. So I was like ecstatic with a twist. Like, oh, thank God I beat the shit out of somebody in my house Anyway,

Joi: 19:48

That's the thing though, like with it coming to be people, you're like, okay, I can fight them, I can shoot them, whatever. But if it's actually a ghost in the ghosty sun or a demon or whatever, that shit's scary. Yeah, that's what I'm saying though. And that's why it went from like a three to a one. I was like, okay, people creepy. I get like the ick kind of factor, but I'm not actually scared anymore. I'm like, mm.

Jann: 20:10

That whole scene where she would like, when you think about that scene when he took her blanket off of her, that is scary as hell. It's not even just a ick, it's scary. This Mr. Sugar went as far as poisoning this guy, but she was in her phone typing alarms, like she could have stabbed her at any point. That is terrifying.

Joi: 20:29

I mean, yeah. That's scary. And like I said, it gives you the, it comes, it's like someone's in my house, you know what I mean? But that, that's scary when you say it that way For sure. And it makes it even funnier that he just made us a angry face.

Jann: 20:42

Terrifying, terrifying. Well, that was Piper though. It wasn't him. It was Piper the next day. Jax tell us, um, we got sidetracked. Um, but Yusef, why is he your f.

Jax: 20:55

I thought he was actually very well written. Like his, how he reacted to things made perfect sense. His backstory was well presented. It is not just all, thrown out there. And I just felt like he was actually a good character. And like I said with the, sticky note thing that was really cute. I liked him.

Joi: 21:15

I feel like he was a little bit too judgy for me. Like he treated her as if she knew exactly what was going on in the town and like the whole thing about the weeded situation, he was like super pissed off. He could've like, listen, marygrove, I know you're from California weeded or whatever. Right? Cool. Here, not so much. All the blacks are gone. They locked our asses up. They, you know, they planted shit like, you know, like you can't be fucking around with that kind of shit here. And that will be the end of that. Like, there's no reason to be pissed off with her and, and, and drive her away and, and be angry even though he forgave her pre pretty easily. The whole thing about the house, I didn't wanna tell you that the house was haunted, like I'm living here a heads up, you know, we so many times and that never came up.

Jann: 22:01

he seemed like a bit of a know-it-all and judgy, like the first time that she said Hey, Erica asked her if she wanted to hit. And first of all, he spoke for her, which I was completely like, don't speak for me. And then got pissed when she said yes, was like, okay, ick. That gave me the ick, if anything. And then when he got mad at her again, I'm just like, either choose to hang out with her or don't. don't get pissed at her for being the way she is and judge her for it or even when she had to check him. I'm so glad she did check him when. She said she has anxiety and he immediately was like, what do you have to be anxious about? Like just because you're going through stuff does not mean other people are not going through stuff. I have anxiety as a full sentence. I don't have to get into the details with you, and you definitely don't have the right to tell me what's anxiety worthy or not You do not know me. Like he seemed to assume a lot about her and then got pissed when it came to not be true. So I agree. He had a lot of good, qualities, but there were also enough that I was like, okay, I'm not really feeling him to be like a favorite.

Jax: 23:04

See, I totally agree with what you guys are saying, but just that they wrote him to have the presence of mind that he does come around. He does change his mind. He doesn't completely cut people off. He came back and apologized about the, anxiety things, like, I respect that because you know how many people wouldn't, and that he would, and he's a teenager too because, I mean, the bar is low for teenagers. But yeah, I just feel like they, he's, he was well-rounded.

Jann: 23:34

I agree and I feel like I like Tiffany D. Jackson. This is only the second book I've read from her, but I can say I like her novels because all of her characters are imperfect, but still likable. and I feel that way with Piper too. Like I feel like she was 10 right now. I feel like if I found one of my relatives that I'm very close to dead, I'd be traumatized, but she, at a very young age, younger than 10, found her grandmother and had to sit with her body until her dad got home. That's traumatizing for anyone. And then to immediately after that, move in with this family who doesn't seem to like you. one of the teens who you don't know what drugs are, but she is like saying all these nasty things to you and then overdose. That's a lot for one 10 year old to go through and still like their family. and then to figure out that Marigo never apologized to her for any of that. I can definitely understand why she was the way she was, and that's with everything that she goes through. There's a lot of snotty little 10 year olds that are like that just because their parents are remarried without going through any of that trauma. So yeah, I would say that she definitely wasn't my least favorite for that. But if we're talking about my favorite characters, My favorite character was Marigold. I'm so surprised that you guys didn't like her so much. And I'll tell you exactly why. I love that she went through so much and was still able to stand up for herself like she did with Yusef. She had a very strong backbone. I feel like she was very flawed, but she was trying to recognize her flaws through the whole book. And as soon as someone brought it to her attention, there was no like arguing oh, whatever. that person's tripping or whatever. she immediately was like, oh shit, that is true. Let me go and fix that. She apologized. To Piper, she apologized to Yusef and you could see that she was still punishing herself for something that like wasn't really her fault. She also had been through a lot and was still focusing on improving her character, even with going through addiction and this like huge debilitating anxiety about the bedbugs. So, uh, yeah, I felt like she was a really, really strong character

Joi: 25:39

I don't know. I just, I, I couldn't get with Marigold at all. Like I understand having anxiety. I understand you went through a lot of different things, but she was extremely harsh to Piper all the time. Even if she did remember whatever she said to Piper when she, overdosed. But it's just like you're 17 talking to a 10 year old, you know, and you wanna fight a 10 year old. I understand you were scared, but that's real messed up. Bring it to your parents. You know what I mean? the way that she handled the issues with Piper was ridiculous, I feel like. And, I don't think. You guys are giving a lot of leeway to Marigold. I guess Jan, you're kind of cool with Piper too, but it's just like, Piper should get the empathy that we gave to Marigold.'cause she's still a kid and she's been through her own traumas as well. And then for Piper too, she's going into a whole new family. honestly a new culture, you know, and the only thing she knows for sure is her dad. And they've moved twice since they, the dad met the mom. You know, so it's just like if anything, as the oldest, you should be like reaching out and this is what the mom and dad should been doing too. Like fostering a relationship between their kids, you know? Piper is still a child. And even like when you think Piper is possessed, I'm glad that Marigo went back to go get her when they were trying to get out the house at the time when they thought they were like under attack with the voice and everything. But I don't know, like I feel like Marigo was way too harsh with Piper to be 17 and for Piper to be 10.

Jann: 27:16

I agree. I feel like that was my, her least favorite quality is like how harsh she was with Piper, which is why I kind of liked how the booked in with them, like reconciling and saying they need to do better. Like both of them. I felt like that was like a redeeming point for both characters.

Jax: 27:31

If like with Piper's situation, if that was an actual child, I would give more leeway than Piper in the book. And that's mostly just because, and I get that because it's a book you can only ever get the one perspective. But there was just nothing really provided for me personally to come around on Piper as a character. Everything that was presented of Piper until the last 20 pages. It was all an antagonistic. It was all there to just make her look worse and worse. And there were just, was nothing there for me to latch onto to

Jann: 28:08

I don't know if I would agree with that.'cause they talked about how she like didn't have any friends and how the trauma with her grandmother that came up before the end and they talked about her moving, like being displaced twice when they met. Like all that came up before the end.

Jax: 28:21

I feel like that's just Marks that go against Raquel and Alec just because they treat the kids like they're cats, how you just kind of plug and go. They just expect them to sort it all out without any sort of help. And I feel like that's definitely an aspect of that whole flawed unit they had going on.

Joi: 28:42

But I wouldn't blame Piper for it. I wouldn't blame the baby of the whole family about the whole family's issues.

Jann: 28:49

If anything, I would say like seeing how awful they were at parents and how bad they were at discipline and be in a united front, even with the kids, would explain even more why she was the way she was, like the way Alec reacted, anytime she complained about something, I blamed him for her behavior way more than I blamed her.

Jax: 29:10

Right? Because Alec always, it didn't even matter what it was. He always would just side with her. He doesn't even seek details or anything. That just wasn't

Joi: 29:17

It was reinforced and she weaponized that every time.

Jax: 29:21

Right.

Joi: 29:22

like when she said, dad, Mari's trying to steal my speakers to sell it for drugs, and he actually believed her, or something like that. What?

Jax: 29:34

I totally get what you're getting at. I just feel like even with the situation thinking of it realistically, this child is just failing. Stranger danger spectacularly to the point that you're letting strangers stay in your house and threaten your family a real way.

Jann: 29:52

it really her failing stranger danger if she told someone and no one's believing her? Again? I feel like that's the fault on her parents. And I feel like in black households they say all the time, like they don't want you to have imaginary friends because of shit like that. That is a prime example of, okay, maybe you can have imaginary friends, but let's actually talk about it. Let's not just turn the cheek and hope she gets over it, you know?

Jax: 30:14

Right.

Joi: 30:15

I feel like for me, Piper was a little too old to have an imaginary friend being 10. So I would question it like immediately, like when would you step in with Piper? Just like you have an imaginary friend, what the hell are you talking about? Like you're a little too old to have imaginary, Frank, tell me more. It's like there's different ways to kind of like figure out what the hell she's talking about. And you probably could get out of her like it's an actual person. Or even if it's like something like she had Ms. Sugar's necklace or something like that. I'm like, that's a haunted artifact. Let's get the hell outta here. Can we get off of Piper for a second? I wanna get back to Mari to how much I don't like her. I even when I was 17, I knew growing weed in an abandoned house was dumb as fuck.

Jann: 30:59

Especially in a place where they were like, seriously, like heavily criminalizing weeded. Like she just saw her friend Erica get planted. Like they planted weed on her it didn't make a lot of sense.

Jax: 31:10

Yeah, that was that was just dumb. 100%.

Joi: 31:13

Like, it was just like, I'm just gonna grow my own weeded. I'm just like, oh, you know, obviously people think about that, like whatever, I'm just gonna grow it. But you don't actually follow through with that shit, and on top of that, you black. Like even when you live in Colorado, California or whatever, black people still get arrested for weeded. Last thing you wanna do is end up growing it. I thought that was so ridiculous. And every other sentence in this book was, man, I just need some weeded, man. I just need it, man. I just need that. I'm like, why don't you talk to your mom about your anxiety and see if she can take you to a doctor. You know what I mean?

Jann: 31:44

She said that she was on some like kind of medication for her anxiety and they just completely pulled her off of it and pulled her away from her guru and like her therapist that she was talking to and didn't replace them. And I was like, how did you think that was going to work? Like you move, if your kid has this much anxiety that she's having episodes, and you saw the episode, it was very intense. I'm not gonna judge her for talking about weeded every second, just because I've never had, I have anxiety and I know how like crippling anxiety can be. And I've never experienced something so intense as she has experienced. Like, that episode killed me. He's telling you it's coffee grounds and you're not even hearing him. He had to cause someone to calm me down. Down. And even then sitting outside naked in winter, with your mom and your brother trying to get you to breathe, it took 45 minutes for them both to get you to just come into the house.

Jax: 32:39

And that's

Jann: 32:40

That's crazy to me. Huh?

Joi: 32:42

Yeah,

Jax: 32:42

I said that was Ohio. Winner too.

Jann: 32:45

Yeah, like I, I have never experienced something that intense before. It actually made me tear up to see her like that. That's intense. Like that's debilitating. So yeah, I can't blame her for wanting like to take the edge off.

Joi: 32:56

that's a failure on the mom too. your daughter had an overdose, you moved her. She has anxiety. This is all the things you know. Why did you never check in with her? Why'd you never say, Hey, how's school going? Hey, how have you been feeling with the new move and everything? Like she never did any of that and she sucked.

Jax: 33:12

yeah, there was a lot of options. Instead of just forcing her to go coat Turkey and expecting that to work out, That was absolutely a massive failure on Raquel's part.

Jann: 33:22

Or even the reason she had anxiety, it was not just the bedbugs, it's the fact that she had bedbugs and she was telling people, and she said for a year, they didn't believe her. You know how, like

Jax: 33:33

Yeah,

Jann: 33:33

how you told everybody, your mom, your dad, they didn't believe you, they took you to professionals and they didn't believe you. And then after they still act like it's your problem. Like why are you still scared of these bedbugs? Because now it's not even about the bedbugs, it's the fact that it's something's wrong with me. I know. No one's gonna believe me.

Joi: 33:52

It's been years. It was years. She lived with bedbugs, years. She lived with them. They took her to a dermatologist like, what's going on with her skin? I told you it's bedbugs, you know?

Jann: 34:03

And I'm like, no, no, it's probably this. No.

Jax: 34:06

I can't imagine a year. That's the, oh.

Joi: 34:09

Yeah.

Jax: 34:11

Like I can totally imagine exactly how she feels.'cause I'm sure I'd panic that way too, honestly.

Joi: 34:16

She had two, run-ins with the bedbugs. And both times she ended up naked on the porch. I'm like, why didn't you take her to someone in either one of those times?'cause remember she said she ran home from when she was helping clean up a, a, uh, the highway or something. It was a mattress, and she ran home taking off her clothes. Nothing from that.

Jann: 34:33

tell her mom about that.

Jax: 34:35

Yeah.

Jann: 34:36

Sammy knew about her running home naked, but I don't think she told the mom, or Sammy didn't tell the mom about that. So

Joi: 34:43

How would you feel being the friend on Skype and getting those creepy ass Skype calls? You know how fast I would turn my computer off? You can't keep calling me, bitch. I would log off a Skype uninstall it.

Jann: 34:59

it was FaceTime?

Joi: 35:01

Was it FaceTime?

Jann: 35:03

Yeah.

Joi: 35:04

Oh, that's even worse because you can't uninstall FaceTime, I don't think on your iPhone.

Jann: 35:11

Yeah.

Joi: 35:11

I've been so scared. And every time she calls you someone walking around behind her too. Nah, girl.

Jann: 35:18

Jackson, you said you guessed the plot when you saw the tooth, or the plot twist, joy, did you guess at all what was gonna happen?

Joi: 35:25

No, I thought it was a ghost tooth.

Jann: 35:29

I thought Alex was possessed, or Alec, whatever his name was. which brings me to the narrator. I liked her a lot, but at a certain point, like it was so scary that I didn't want her talking. So I finished reading the book because like I would hear her talk and then something would happen in the house where I have to like hurry up and find the pause so I could listen. And I was like, enough, I need you to shut up. I'm just gonna read it.

Joi: 35:57

probably why it wasn't that scary for me either.'cause I was playing on my switch too, while I was listening to it, just laying in bed, listening to it and playing my game. Like what happened? Uh, two. Ghost tooth, you know, it happens.

Jann: 36:08

why you can't do the recap. Maybe you should pay a little bit more attention.

Jax: 36:22

It's okay, joy. I can't multitask either. I just read it

Jann: 36:25

Like I said, I was in such a state of fright when that hand popped out of there. I thought it was a gr that it didn't even click to me that they were real people until the gunshots. And I was like, why would a ghost be afraid of a gun?

Joi: 36:38

Well, if you watch Supernatural, they fill their shotguns up with salt and they shoot ghosts that way. You can just double barrel it. One can be salt and one can be a bullet.

Jax: 36:50

But yeah, I'm surprised that neither of you guys guessed the, twist. Just'cause there's been big news stories where they have somebody living in their house and they never realized it, or it's been done in scary stories even. did you see that? When somebody found like the, entrance behind their mirror in their apartment.

Joi: 37:07

led to another apartment.

Jax: 37:09

Yeah, yeah. Stuff like that. That happens a lot. So I was like, oh, okay. There, gotta be somebody in the basement.

Joi: 37:17

Yeah, that's true. That, I mean, it does happen and it is scary when it does happen. I just didn't see, because I thought that Piper was possessed. I thought that girl's gone.

Jax: 37:26

Like, I, like I knew about this thing. I, I knew about this being a thing, but I still believe she would possess like, what? No, no person would actually act that way.

Joi: 37:37

And that's the thing too, since she wasn't possessed. Okay. I've been a nanny for years. The girl that I watched was 10 and she had a little brother who was like two or three. Once I, if I had him out the house already, after all this spooky stuff went on, if I thought she was possessed or not, I already decided like Mary go to go and get her to flee the house. Why didn't she just go up the stairs and grab her little ass and carry her out? Where I pipe? Pipe come Piper.

Jann: 38:11

Well, she did like, I feel like she was thinking like, if I can get her to come down the stairs, I don't have to. But after she turned around, she did run up to go and grab her. Like, I'm not playing this game anymore with you. I'm about to drag you out. And she got hit in the face for it. would've been hit in the face just like she was like,

Joi: 38:34

Probably I would've been thrown down the stairs and broke my neck. I would've been knocked out'cause I would've been grabbing them kids. I couldn't have left the kids. You would've to kill me that day. I'm like, listen, ghosts are not like I'm getting this baby. So I probably would've died in this story. Honestly, I don't think I would've made it.

Jann: 38:57

I would've made it because I would've left the first day.

Jax: 39:05

I

Jann: 39:05

There's that, and I feel like when my fight or flight kicks in, if I don't feel like I can get away, fight is so much like my first response. So I would've known that they weren't ghosts real early on.

Joi: 39:18

Especially with that guy standing in your room. You would've been fighting him. I would've been fighting him. Like, who the fuck?

Jax: 39:25

if I was in the situation, the story would've ended a lot earlier just'cause when they first moved in some, oh, we're not allowed in the basement. Why? What's down there? Why can't I go into my own basement? Why did nobody question

Jann: 39:38

Watson. Like I don't understand, like he said that if they go down there they'll be sued. But it didn't say he signed an N d a. Like why didn't he just say that? Like why was he so tightlipped? If you're concerned enough to wait on their street in the truck, so many nights, why would you never say Hey, have you guys noticed this? I've noticed this. Have you guys, like there was no reason why he couldn't discuss it. Like that was

Joi: 40:02

Hey, I worked in your

Jann: 40:03

Especially since there are kids involved,

Joi: 40:05

Mm-hmm.

Jann: 40:06

you know? Like he saw all those kids that were in that house

Jax: 40:10

Honestly, I feel like a lot of the horror is made by tons and tons of really stupid failings from the adult characters And even with the whole mob thing. So Yusef was talking about how they felt terrible about all this stuff happening and then like they don't do Halloween because of the fires and whatnot. But then they were just so happy to just dive right into it. Oh, hey, look at this, the tarps and whatnot that are here, that's not suspicious because I get it, it's a reference to the whole thing that was happening before. But you know, in real life people are like, that's pretty suspicious. You know?

Joi: 40:50

The way that they up, it just didn't make

Jax: 40:53

yeah, it didn't make sense at all.

Joi: 40:56

especially, it's like, oh, this little white girl missing, and black people would be like, yeah, that sucks. They wouldn't go like a whole mob.

Jann: 41:07

no, I think you have to consider that everybody in that town, was trying to protect themselves because they burned down that house with Ms. Sugar and her son in it. So more than like them worrying about the little girl, they had heard that they were still alive and they were concerned that the story would've gotten out and they wanted to protect themselves from that. That's why she, he was saying, don't tell anybody I told you about Ms. Sugar. You know, Yusef, when he told her, because his pop pop would've been implicated in that burning and they thought they boarded up the house so fast and never went back because they thought the evidence was still in that house, like the burned bodies. That's how any of this story was able to happen is because they were trying to bury a secret.

Joi: 41:50

it's

Jax: 41:50

what? That's a, that's, I didn't interpret it that way. I was always thinking that Yusef was saying, don't tell anybody I told you about this. Or not even wanting to tell her about that house being potentially haunted. Just'cause she was already freaking out so he wouldn't want to, you know, add onto it by saying, oh yeah, there's also a ghost in there. Just'cause the whole hack thing seemed like it was dragged out.

Joi: 42:14

No, I just feel like you can't whip up black people to be a lynch mob. Like, we don't do that. You know what I mean? I don't, I don't think that that would've worked that way the first time when they killed, well, they supposedly killed the son and then burnt down the house. I don't think it would've happened this time either when the girl went missing, even if they're trying to cover their tracks, I feel like they'd be more like, Hey, you know, we did this a while ago. Maybe we should go into their house and check out what's going on, see if we can find any bodies or anything like that. You know what I mean? It's just like, it's one of those things where I don't believe that they would just like leave it there. Like if they did do a crime like that and then they, people like, you know, the city wants to start reinventing, like the neighborhood, they wouldn't went in there long before they moved to that house. And I, I, I just, I just don't see black people doing lynch mobs. They call'em lynch mobs'cause white people did it to black folks. I don't, I don't see them

Jann: 43:07

nobody was lynching anyone.

Joi: 43:09

But I mean, they basically did, if they found that boy, yeah. Beat him up and burnt him in a house. That's a lynching.

Jann: 43:16

they burned him in a house.

Jax: 43:19

They thought that the, that the son and Ms. Sugar were burnt to death in the house.

Joi: 43:24

because she went in to help him after they beat him up and left him in the house and it was on fire all of a sudden.

Jax: 43:31

Like they definitely

Jann: 43:32

you guys are like really misinterpreting this. So what happened was, They found the little boy dead in one of the houses because he got lost and was in one of the abandoned houses and got murdered by someone who was strung out on drugs. And then the white people were burning down the houses and it spread to the black people's homes. They never caught who was burning the houses initially. And that's when they were talking about the mob with the roussos and things like the only time the black people were burning the homes was at the end. And that's because when they tried to find John, John, who they said was touching kids, they burned that house and she ran in and it got burned down the house next door pretty much

Joi: 44:24

so

Jann: 44:24

like the only time they were actually writing them. Yeah, exactly. The only time they were actually writing was at the end, and I think that was to protect the secret.

Joi: 44:35

but why would they be protecting you if they didn't actually do any harm to John? John? It's just like, we just let his house burn like everyone else did you know?

Jax: 44:42

yeah.

Joi: 44:45

I, I don't know, like if that was the case, I still don't understand why they would do all that. Just to cover up that they already, we all already know we let him burn in the house and his mom, like, that didn't make sense

Jax: 44:56

like I

Joi: 44:57

they didn't already try to attack him and leave him for dead, if there was evidence,'cause if there was evidence of them doing something fine, I could kind of see that. But if it was the white people doing it in the first place, they had no hands on it. They're just like, oh, he's alive. You know?

Jax: 45:11

feel like from either perspective we might have just stumbled onto a pothole of sorts.

Joi: 45:17

Yeah. I guess I'm just like, I, I just didn't care for it. I, it wasn't believable.

Jax: 45:23

Yeah,

Joi: 45:23

It's just, I, I didn't care for it, the

Jann: 45:26

But that actually happened though, like in the like riots for black co Lives matter.

Jax: 45:30

yeah. But people were calling out that,

Jann: 45:33

sitting around waiting for people to break stuff because they wanted to make the Black Lives Matter people to be villains

Joi: 45:42

and that's the thing

Jann: 45:43

like that actually

Joi: 45:43

like, look, this is a new pallet that wasn't here 20 minutes ago. Someone had to drop this off. Right. And obviously some people took'em, but like a lot of people were calling out on Twitter, this wasn't here. Is that gonna go, like, who dropped these off here

Jann: 45:55

Well, the same thing happened in the book. They said there were a lot of people in the crowd that were still standing around the house when other people went off to riot trying to figure out how they can stop everybody. There's just not, I, you can't think of it as, okay, they use the black people. Like black people cannot be generalized. You can't just say, black people won't do this. Like everyone is an individual, you know, like, and I'm not saying you can't say like the majority of black people or the majority of white people. Sure. But you cannot just say an exception. Every black person isn't going to do this. People on their own are individuals. And some people had had enough, like what if you were in Yussef shoes where your whole family was freaking gone? Like maybe you're just oppressed enough and like on the edge enough. Like you never know what people are going through, where they're like, okay, this is the last fricking straw I can't take anymore. You know? And they seem to have put them in the exact right position to wanna like mess stuff up.

Joi: 46:52

It is just, I guess it was the way it was written, it just didn't seem very believable for black people to do any kind of like mobbing like that at all. It just didn't add up for me and it took me out of the story. I'm just like, I don't believe that we would do something like that. So I don't know. I didn't care for it. And that's probably why. Is that still at a two and a half star for me? I don't understand the community reacting in the ways that they react in this book. That's basically my thing. I have never seen a community of black folks, especially the ones who's like in a community like that, so they're obviously close knit to react in the ways that they were reacting in this book. And I didn't care for it. It wasn't believable to me. It felt like it was just like written there to have stakes there to like a sense of danger, but it was almost like black people were used as like multiple times in this book as just like a mob, like a brainless mob that could just be like influenced to do whoever is at the heads bidding. You know what I mean? And it sucked and I didn't care for it and took me right out of the story.

Jann: 47:57

I think that's definitely your own interpretation. I agree with you. To a point, like at the end I felt like it was a little bit too neatly wrapped up, I do feel like there were people in the community that were friendly and I feel like there were people in the community that were not friendly. And I do feel like that's realistic.

Joi: 48:12

Mm-hmm.

Jax: 48:13

I feel like in both of those situations, I would've been more forgiving of it, seeming so sloppy, like what we were just talking about. If,'cause you're saying everything was neatly wrapped up, but like I feel like the book has no damn resolution. It just stops. There's so much stuff that should have been tied up better so that you can just see what the full situation they're dealing with is. And instead you're literally in the middle of a big action and then the book ends like, what am I supposed to do with this?

Jann: 48:48

I enjoyed it, especially considering the time that she wrote it. It was like right in 2021 and it was like right where Black Lives Matter, was in the thick of it. You know, we were like going through a bunch of stuff as a people and it still unresolved. Like you want to believe that she went on and went against the Sterling Company and resolved a lot of things. but it's still unwritten, like it still has to happen. Um, I will say I was very upset that I didn't get a real resolution with Erica being imprisoned.

Joi: 49:16

Yeah.

Jax: 49:17

Yeah.

Jann: 49:17

But as far as like her and what she was going to do to help save the community, the fact that she called it our community, like she finally had a place to belong and somewhere she felt like she had a stake in and can do some good was nice. I thought it was interesting that she said that she wasn't gonna be able to run for a while, and it seemed like she was focusing her energy elsewhere. I felt like going through this new trauma with Piper kind of gave her some kind of resolve to her bedbugs issues where she said it was still in the back of her mind, but like it wasn't as pressing as making sure Piper was okay and that she was just so exhausted from everything. Like I felt like it was the cusp of change for a lot of things. And change was a huge theme in this book where I was saying that Affirmation with her all the time that she was saying like, change is good, change is necessary. And then to have Yusef say change isn't always good, which like made her say, wait, hold on. I feel personally attacked and like just like thinking about the theme of change and if it's good and if it's bad and what needs to change, what shouldn't change tradition versus like the future. A lot of that was a huge theme and I felt like they ended or she ended it right where it ended because again, we are on the cusp of a change for a lot of things. Her anxiety, her track career, her belonging in a community, obviously if they're going to actually wipe out this neighborhood like they thought or not, like a lot of that is left up to interpretation.

Jax: 50:44

I hear what you're saying, but I feel like that wasn't the best position to leave it in, to leave it up to interpretation because so much of the book. Is based on dealing with all of that stuff, and now that you've finally managed to get it to a point where you can finally start seeing the changes that's been built up this whole time, it's over.

Jann: 51:08

Yeah, but what was she actually trying to convey in the book? Was it the resolution to all these issues, or was it marigold's mindset? These ghosts that she was running from seemed to be her own anxiety, her own like issues with her past, her own issues with not belonging. And I felt like she was on the verge of understanding all of that and she was getting through it. And the fact that like these ghosts that the neighborhood was dealing with was not actually ghosts. She was putting a name and face to all of those things that they were. Dealing with, you know, like when she was figuring out the research and like following the money, like a lot of things that were just vague and didn't have a face to put to the name was named. You know, a lot of these things that seemed to be like a haunting, turned out to be real, like problems in the community and like with her. So I felt like that was a good place in my opinion, to stop.

Jax: 52:03

I'm just bothered that they never really got to the end with people living in her house. Like I understand symbolism, but Oh my god. You know?

Joi: 52:14

My only thing is that I wish it would've wrapped up at least her mental health stuff, like showing her going to a doctor or something. I understand where you said where it was, you know, to leave for us to interpret as we will, like she will be making these changes. But I just wanted to see a little bit more, you know, just like maybe like a little down the road, like they moved out the house or they stayed in the house. The other houses were getting renovated. She was going to a therapist. She didn't feel like she needed weeded or they got her medical weed or actual anxiety mess that actually worked for her. Any of those things show her relationship with Piper. Follow up with what happened with Ms. Sugar in the hospital. Like any of these things, see what happened with Mrs. Sterling. You know, if John John lived, yeah. It was just so many things that were left. It was just like, I'm just like, it is too abrupt. When it ended, I was waiting for the next. Yeah, I was, I, I was just, yeah. Use it. Yeah. So I was just waiting for another chapter to start. When I was listening to it in Audible, I was just like, what's the next chapter? And then it was just credits. And I was like, that sucks. You know? I feel like I probably would've gave this book a little higher of a rating if it had any kind of wrap up. Any of'em, you know, the parents barely got into the house after she found Piper, you know, and it ended. I just, I thought it was too much that was

Jann: 53:34

The parents actually didn't get home.

Joi: 53:37

Oh, yeah, there was on the couch. Yeah. So it's just like,

Jann: 53:39

they were on the couch at Yusef's house, not their house. I don't know. I liked it. Like how did you feel about the ending of the Giver or not? Not the giver. I think it was the giver.

Jax: 53:49

I don't even remember that book. Really? Was

Jann: 53:52

Oh, any cliffhanger. Do you generally enjoy cliffhangers?

Joi: 53:56

I like cliffhangers when it makes sense to have a cliffhanger. Like if it's just like one certain thing that's happening, but not a whole wrap up where it's like everything is leading to this point and you just didn't write about it. You know,

Jax: 54:08

like if in the Phantom they end it right when they um, like right when they just leave the, um,

Jann: 54:17

The Opera House?

Jax: 54:18

Thank you

Jann: 54:19

Yep. So I feel like it's.

Jax: 54:21

other stuff happened. Sorry, go on.

Jann: 54:24

Yeah, I definitely think it's a matter of preference. Like I generally do like cliffhangers and I don't necessarily see like abrupt cliffhangers like this a lot, like ACEs spades. I feel like they kind of wrap that up at the end like a couple years after. And I felt like it took away from the story

Joi: 54:39

I didn't,

Jann: 54:40

because it didn't make any sense. You know, like this really leads you to like, how would you like it to end? Like you say you want her to get help, but what if she doesn't get help? You say you wanna see the, how their house was renovated. What if they actually destroyed the neighborhood? You know, like a lot of that stuff is unwritten and I feel like it makes sense for the time that we're in right now because it correlates with so many things happening. So many things happening in the real world.

Joi: 55:03

My, my thing is I would've liked it if they parents came home or if came to Yus, picked them up and they drove out of the city with the, like, burning in the background. That's one thing.'cause it's, it'll be a cliffhanger of like what's going to happen. But it can also interpret it as they're a family unit and they made it out alive and that's what matters. You know what I mean? They figured these things out and they left the issue, like it was just, I don't know, like I

Jann: 55:31

you get that with Alec coming around and defending her and then her and Piper, who was the biggest divide in the family making up and saying they need to do better. I feel like it would've been a little cheesy actually, if everyone came together at the end, especially since the dog and the brother were still in the hospital away from the like Cedarville and like they didn't have service because they purposely cut off service. They made it like this very insidious thing where like nobody has service because they didn't want them reaching out and getting help. They cut off access to the city so they couldn't have driven away from the city. You know, like the police were barricading people in and not letting people like out, like all of the, like it would've been cheesy to have them driving away with the city. Like, if that's all you need it, I feel like that wouldn't have worked with the story.

Jax: 56:16

Yeah, I wouldn't have liked that with the ending.

Joi: 56:19

I dunno.

Jann: 56:20

But either way I do feel like it's a matter of like preference and I feel like that's how it always is with cliffhangers. Even like really well-known works of art. Some people hate a cliffhanger, period. So it, it is a matter of preference. I personally enjoyed it. I can see that you two did not, even though you don't really agree on what the ending should have been. I feel like we're just kind of scattered with that and that's fine. I feel like that's kind of what cliffhangers do,

Joi: 56:44

And that's the point

Jann: 56:45

but I do wanna hear from other people. Yeah, exactly. I do wanna hear from other people, like if you liked the ending, if you liked the book, if you thought it was scary, so joy, do you wanna tell'em where they can find us and write in about their opinion of the book?

Joi: 56:58

Yeah. You can find us at Black Girl Reads podcast, on TikTok and Instagram and on Twitter it is Black Girl Reads pod. the black is spelled b l k on all of them.

Jann: 57:11

Jackson, where can the audience find you if they would like to reach out?

Jax: 57:15

I can be found on basically, Every social media platform at 100 pugs, that's the number 100 pugs, no space.

Jann: 57:26

All right, well then I'm just gonna go ahead and announce the next book, which is a, another horror book called Burn Down. Rise Up. So next week we'll be reading this one. The synopsis goes Mysterious disappearances and urban legend rumored to be responsible, and one group of teens determined to save their city at any cost for over a year. The Bronx has been played by sudden disappearances that no one can explain. 16 year old Raquel does her best to ignore it. After all, the police only look for the white kids. But when her crushed Charlie's cousin goes missing. Raquel starts to pay attention, especially when her own mom comes down with a mysterious illness that seems linked to the disappearances. Raquel and Charlize team up to investigate, but they soon discover that everything is tied to a terrifying urban legend called the Echo Game. The game is rumored to trap people in a sinister world underneath the city, and the rules are based on a particularly dark chapter in New York's past. And if the friends want to save their home and everyone they love, they'll have to play the game and destroy the evil at its heart or die trying.

Joi: 58:33

That sounds

Jax: 58:34

Is her crush Charlize or Charlize's cousin.

Jann: 58:38

Charlie's

Jax: 58:39

Okay.

Jann: 58:41

Yeah,

Joi: 58:42

It sounds spooky. I like the idea

Jann: 58:45

it sounds fun. Yeah, I like this one. it's, no, it doesn't seem like there's any possession involved, so I was afraid to read a couple of these books this month, but I'm just excited for this one. So, yeah,

Joi: 58:59

All right.

Jax: 59:00

So when are you doing the Goosebumps chapter? When are you doing the episode on Goosebumps.

Jann: 59:08

I like goosebumps. I don't know why everyone treats'em like, they're like not works of art just because they're made for kids. Anyway,

Jax: 59:15

love goosebumps. I just know

Jann: 59:17

so did you guys see that? Like r l Stein rated this book like amazing.

Jax: 59:21

I did see that.

Jann: 59:23

He is actually on the cover of the book Giving a Good Review. I thought that was awesome for her, especially since was, it was her first horror novel she's ever written,

Jax: 59:32

That's super cool.

Jann: 59:34

and I saw that there's a trailer for a movie for this, but I'm not sure if it was fan made or not, and I could not find any evidence of a real movie. So I don't think it is,

Joi: 59:42

I feel like Ro Stein's books, the Goosebumps. There's some scarier ones than this one, like Slappy. The plant dad or whatever, don't go in the basement. That freaked me out more than this story, for sure.

Jax: 59:56

I can't think of any Goosebumps books that actually scared me. It's just that one dog in the theme. But those are great books.

Jann: 1:00:05

Yeah. All right. Well it was great talking with you guys. Jax, thanks so much for joining us this week. Thanks everyone. Bye.

Joi: 1:00:13

Bye

Jax: 1:00:14

Bye.