Creating Healthy Sex Lives: A Journey from Codependence to Wholeness (audio)

Barb Nangle is a boundaries coach who shares her transformative journey from hitting a codependent bottom at age 52 to finding recovery through 12-step programs. Barb discusses the importance of building healthy boundaries, emotional intimacy, and how she now enjoys a fulfilling and healthy relationship.

Barb emphasizes the importance of building healthy boundaries and how they have significantly improved her emotional well-being and relationships. She provides practical advice on maintaining self-focus, avoiding people-pleasing, and taking responsibility for personal happiness. Barb also highlights the role of emotional intimacy in enhancing sexual relationships, sharing her experience of waiting to establish emotional intimacy with her partner before engaging in a sexual relationship.

The conversation concludes with Barb sharing insights on self-care, including spiritual practices like meditation and yoga, which support her recovery journey. She discusses the transformative power of self-acceptance and clear communication in intimate relationships, encouraging listeners to prioritize their desires and limits. Listeners are invited to connect with Barb on Instagram and check out her podcast, while Eve shares information about the Please Me Health Collective and other resources.

Potential Listener Questions:
1. Why are healthy boundaries crucial for personal growth and relationships?
2. How does emotional intimacy enhance sexual relationships?
3. What self-care practices are recommended to improve self confidence?
4. How can I take control of my life and focus on self-approval?

Resources and Links:

You can find Barb Nangle here:

• Barb Nangle’s Podcast: Fragmented to Whole
• Home Page - Higher Power Coaching & Consulting (higherpowercc.com)

Transcript

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Who's looking for a sexy date? STC.com is the premier ethically non-monogamous dating site that also houses a wealth of information regarding sexuality and sexual health. Join the Please Me Health Collective on STC.com and listen to Eve's free live webinars. Use code 37340 for a free trial membership. Maybe you are in the market for some sexy toys to add some spice to the bedroom. Check out the organic love and link for the best online store for sex toys, lubes and more. This podcast is intended for mature audiences. And so you're constantly trying to keep a please and you're constantly saying yes when you want to say no, right? Eve is a licensed sexual health physical therapist on a mission to de-stigmatize conversations about sex. Please sit back and surrender to the pleasure of Please Me. Hello and welcome to Please Me, the podcast that aims to de-stigmatize conversations about sex by turning the sheets into our classroom. Today, I have the amazing honor to welcome Barb Nangle to the podcast. She is a boundaries coach and she has gone through 12-step recovery and she started, believe it or not, at the age of 52 when she hit her codependent bottom. And that is when she started her recovery journey. And she is the host of a podcast called Fragmented to Whole Life Lessons from 12-Step Recovery. And with that, I want to welcome Barb to the show today. Hi, Barb. How are you today? Hi, Eve. I'm great. I'm really happy to be here and to have this fantastic conversation with you. Thank you so much for inviting me. Of course. I'm so thrilled that we connected on Instagram and here you are, you know. And so thanks for sticking through all of the communication back and forth. And I am so excited to hear your story. Why don't we start there? As you said, I was 52 when I hit a codependent bottom. And so what that meant for me, first of all, I didn't know what the word codependent meant. Even though I had read 17 gajillion self-help books, I had been in therapy for 37 years, not quite continuously, but almost. And I'd done every self-help group and everything you can imagine. But what happened was that I had befriended a homeless guy named Dan through my church. And after knowing him a couple months, when there was a snowstorm one night, I invited him to stay at my house. I now know that is not normal behavior. And he did. And then he stayed another time. And another time within a few weeks, he was practically living with me. And not long after that, I felt like I was trapped in my own home. He was an addict, an alcoholic, and probably also a narcissist. This guy fucked with my head in a way that I had never experienced before. So one day, I was in therapy talking about him. And in mid-sentence, I stopped and I went, Oh my gosh, do you think I need to go to Al-Anon? And my therapist was like, yes. And so for those who don't know what Al-Anon is, it's a 12-step recovery program for the loved ones of alcoholics. And you may be wondering, why do they need a 12-step recovery program? And that's because the things that we do, sort of naturally that we think are going to help our loved one to stop drinking or get into rehab or whatever, typically backfire. And then we end up being completely focused on them and ignoring ourselves. And then our lives suck too. So I knew about Al-Anon. I went home. I don't know what I put into Google. But I came up with the word codependent. And I was like, what? So I started in Codependence Anonymous. Very quickly felt a sense of relief. And also very quickly, I remember thinking, and I think I said to somebody too, I think they need to be reparented. But I didn't know that was a thing. I thought I made it up. And then a few weeks into my Codependence Anonymous recovery, I went to go visit a friend a few hours away. And she had been in Alcoholics Anonymous for years and just raved. About how drastically her life had improved because of it. So I told her about CODA. And she was like, oh, that's great. Let's see if we can find a meeting here. And we'll go together. And she couldn't. But she found a meeting for ACA, which I knew of as ACOA, Adult Children of Alcoholics. They're the same program. But it's actually now called Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families. And I never heard the and dysfunctional families part. So it never occurred to me that I qualify. And I was like, I'll go for you. Because her dad's an alcoholic. And we walk in. And they say, we reparent ourselves. I was like, what? Then they read the 14 traits of an adult child, which is affectionately called the laundry list. And I was like, oh, my God. And now my friend tells me that I sobbed the whole meeting. I don't remember that. But I bought the literature. I came home to New Haven, Connecticut, started going to an ACA meeting. Very soon after that, I got into a group with some other women and did the 12 steps. And also another meeting started for just for women in New Haven. I started going to that. And I really was astonished at how dysfunctional I was and how dysfunctional my family was that I never really understood. And I started to be able to deeply and profoundly change some longstanding patterns of my life, most of which I didn't even know. The one thing I did know, Eve, was that I had a string, or let's call it a rope of dysfunctional relationships behind me. And the only part on my part that I could own on that was I knew I'm the common denominator, but I didn't really know what that meant. So I started seeing and feeling really drastic changes because of ACA, not so much in CODA. So I let go of CODA. And then that turned out to be something like higher powered for me, because it turns out that I'm a compulsive overeater. And one of the women that was doing the steps with an ACA kind of was trying to get me into that program. So I'm also on Overeaters Anonymous. I am now down over 100 pounds from my top weight. In fact, tomorrow is my nine year ACA anniversary. And Saturday is my eight year, it's called abstinence anniversary in Overeaters Anonymous. So that's similar to being sober for an alcoholic. And actually, it was both of those programs that really taught me how to build healthy boundaries, which is ultimately through a whole series of serum fitness events, I eventually became a boundaries coach. And the reason I chose boundaries as my coaching niche is that as a codependent, boundaries are sort of the antidote to that. And boundaries permeate every single area of our lives. And they had a massive impact on my life. At the time, I was still working full time at Yale University and had been there working for my same boss, with whom I had a very long, years and years long codependent relationship. And when I saw the effects of just me building healthy boundaries on my relationship with my boss, my smaller team, and my larger project, and the ripple effect it had, it was astonishing. And so I knew there's something here that I really want to help, especially other women. And I would say especially, not that younger women don't need it. Of course they do. But women who are clear, like I can't continue this. So women in their 40s, 50s, 60s. I've actually had a couple clients in their 70s even. And it's just really changed everything. And one of the amazing benefits, one of the most amazing benefits, is that I am now for the first time in a healthy relationship. So I've been with my sweetheart for five and a half years. And one of the things that attracted me to him the most was that he had really healthy boundaries. And I have always really loved sex. But it's so much more enjoyable now. And I think a lot of it has to do with my healthy boundaries. Because I know who I am. I feel whole in a way that I didn't before. So you mentioned earlier, my podcast is called Fragmented the Whole. And I named it that because I had this notion before recovery that I was a bunch of fragmented pieces sort of floating around in space. And the process of recovery, especially the part about building healthy boundaries, helped me integrate those fragmented pieces into one coherent whole. And I got rid of those fragments that weren't authentically me. And when you get into an intimate relationship with somebody and you feel whole, you're not seeking something that they can't give you because you need it internally. And you're present in a way that I was unable to be present. I'm able to say yes, or I want this to things that I just couldn't vocalize before. And I'm able to say like, like, I'm done, or I don't want to do that. And I also had conversations with him ahead of time about like, I have been in relationships in the past where I've been shamed because I, the person was way more adventurous than me. And they wanted me to do things that I wasn't, I wasn't sure if I wanted to. And I've also been shamed by someone for being too adventurous. And so I was like, I told him this. And I said, I need the freedom to say, I want to try this, not knowing if I'm actually okay with it. And being able to say, you know what, I changed my mind. I actually don't want to do this. Or I want to try that again. Like I wasn't able to have conversations ahead of time with people before, but because I'm whole, and I know who I am, and I have healthy boundaries, all that stuff came very easily to me. So I could go on, but I'll stop there. Well, what an incredible story. And I can completely relate to so many pieces of it. I was also in a 12-step program in my 20s that I worked for several years. The program that I was in was called SIA, and it stands for Survivors of Incest Anonymous. And I was, you know, I went through that whole program and I had two other friends who joined me and we would journal every week. And we did that for probably about a year and a half. We worked the program together. And that really changed my life, honestly. And so, yes, boundaries are so important. And when you talk about, you know, allowing a homeless man to move in and sort of take over your life, talk about like having no boundaries, right? You grow up in a dysfunctional family, whether it be, you know, whatever dysfunction that may be, my sexual abuse, yours was something else, I don't know. We didn't get into the details of that. But whatever that may be, it really does teach you that you don't have control over your own body and yourself. And so you're constantly trying to people please and you're constantly saying yes when you want to say no, right? So why is it so hard for people to say no? I know for me, Eve, that I didn't know this until I got into recovery and started working on this stuff. But I didn't want people to think I was a bad person. So a lot of people are approval seekers and I was more of a disapproval avoider, right? So I didn't know that. I remember when I got into CODA, after a little while talking to this woman and saying, you know, I see that there's this like continuum of helpfulness, where on one end, we've got kindly, helpful, functional, healthy behavior. And on the other end, we have dysfunctional rescuing, fixing, saving, controlling, enabling behavior. And I get the difference between the two ends. It's in the middle. Like, where do you cross over, for example, from being just plain helpful to being rescuing? And the woman said to me, well, Barb, it really depends on your motives. Why are you helping the person? Are you doing it to be helpful? Or are you doing it because you want them to like you? And I was like, I'm totally doing it to be helpful. But that question, Eve, percolated in my brain and I started to be like, oh my God, I really am doing it. Not because I want them to like me necessarily, but I want them to think good things of me. I'm kind. I used to think I was nice. I literally would say to people, I'm nice. I want them to think that I'm helpful. I don't want them to think that I'm a bad person. So once I saw that that was my motive, I started asking myself, what is my motive here? Why am I doing this thing? And that question has been really, really fruitful for me. But I think the reason that we want other people's approval is because that's what felt safe when we were children. It felt safe because it's like, if you're okay with me, then I'm okay with me. Like, I can't be okay unless you're okay. And my dysfunction in my family was primarily emotional invalidation and gaslighting. So I was told stuff was real that was not real. For me, the most impactful and difficult effect of family dysfunction is questioning my own perception. Is this real? Did this really happen? And if you don't even know what real is, how can you possibly have high quality life? So I somehow internalized, I need them to be okay with me. And so when you get older, if this is your pattern, it feels threatening to have people disapprove of you. And what's happened for me, Eve, in this process of building healthy boundaries and really recovering and becoming whole, is that I think the shift that happened for me is that I came to care more of what I think of me than what other people do. This doesn't mean I don't care at all what other people think of me. Of course I do. It's just that I was willing to throw my integrity out the window and say yes to things I didn't want to do or didn't like and say no to things that I actually wanted to do. I did a lot of manipulating. That's what people pleasing is. You're going about your behavior to please people, to get their approval. And so I was doing all of these things because I was so focused out there on like, what does he need? What does she need? What do they need? What does the organization need? What does the situation need? And I wasn't paying attention at all to what I wanted or to what I thought of myself. So once I saw like I'm lying and I'm manipulating was like, oh my God, I don't want to do that. And so I was able to make the shift from caring way more what everybody else thought of me to caring more what I think of me. Now, like I said, it doesn't mean I don't care at all what other people think of me, but I want your approval, but I don't need your approval, like in this like clawing kind of way that I used to. And it's a lot of it has to do with because I approve of me because I'm an honest woman of integrity and integrity is another word of saying wholeness. So in the physical world, a bridge that has integrity is a bridge that has a solid foundation and has no cracks in it. A person who has integrity has no cracks in their foundation. They do what they say they're going to do and that sort of thing. So I hope that I've answered your question about why it's so difficult, but it's complicated as to why people don't feel comfortable saying no. Absolutely. And for me and my experience, when you've been abused at a very young age sexually, you lose the power of your body. You no longer have a boundary around your body because someone took that from you. Exactly. Someone took that from you and then you don't know how to really get that back. And so you are vulnerable to other people doing the same thing. And that is exactly what happened to me. By age 10, there were five people that had sexually abused me. And so when you learn that as a child, you really don't have any boundaries. And then you have to learn those boundaries. And so I know a lot of people can relate to that because unfortunately, the statistics are that 35% of girls or women and 25% of boys have been sexually abused. And for those people out there listening, the 12-step programs are an incredible place to start. And coaching is also another really great way to get help. So I wanna just jump into the definition of codependence. Let's get into that a little bit because I think that's really important too. The global definition I think is people who are codependent are focused on that which is outside themselves. So typically it's other people and what those people think of them, like what they're thinking, what they're doing, often what they're thinking of me, that sort of thing. And I know that I'm the kind of person who when I understand something, I buy into it much more. And my first few months in recovery, I heard a therapist on a podcast explain codependence in this way and it really helped me. And she said, I've been around since codependence was developed, but the theory of research on trauma hasn't advanced beyond that of codependence. And what we now know is that codependence is a result of trauma and here's why. Because when you're traumatized, you go into fight or flight mode, which means you're in what I call lizard brain. Well, the self, which is an ever-changing abstract concept is formed in the frontal lobe, like the human part of the brain. So when you're in fight or flight mode, that part of your brain gets cut off because you're not supposed to think, you're supposed to fight or flee. And so you can't get to self when you're traumatized. And that's how codependence develops. And as soon as I heard that, I was like, oh, it felt like this chunk of understanding fell into place and I got it. And so for me, a huge one of my, like the number one tool of my recovery is pausing and breathing so that I can settle myself down and get out of fight or flight mode and tell myself I am safe. Like I don't tell the words I'm safe. I show my body that I'm safe by being able to breathe properly. And that means I can now access my frontal lobe and I can think clearly. So if anybody's ever been like super angry and you can't think, that's why. Or if you're like really freaked out about something and you can't think, that's why because you're not meant to because the volume of energy required for thinking is enormous and your body can't expend that. So it shuts that down and it's like, we're gonna fight or flee. The problem is that in the modern world, we have the same reactions to things in the present day that are not threatening but they're mindful of things in the past that were threatening. And we react as if we're being attacked by a saber tooth tiger, right? So the codependence is that focus outside of self. And so one of the most important things you can do is to learn to keep the focus on yourself. Please consider supporting the show. Are you in menopause? Perimenopause or postmenopause? I have found the absolute best products called Parlor Games. I use the Estreol and Progesterone topical creams and they have been game changers. Maybe you've listened to the show and wanna be featured as a guest. Eve uses Podmatch to connect with new or potential guests. Reach out and begin the process today. I have four recommendations for that. Would you like me to share what those are? Absolutely. Yeah, let's jump into that. Okay, so the first way to learn to keep the focus on yourself is in any given situation to ask yourself, what do I want or need right now? I never, ever asked that. It was always like, what does he need? What do they, you know, it was always, what do they need? So what do I want or need right now? I love that that's number one too. Oh, absolutely. It's always you. Right, right. So what do I want or need right now? And then hopefully you act on it. In the beginning, you probably won't be able to, but eventually you'll be able to do that. Number two is to mind your own business. Like I used to give unsolicited advice to people all the time, especially about relationships, even though I've never had a healthy one. I would be like sending people pamphlets and websites and making suggestions and running in to help people when they didn't even ask me to help. So now I understand it's fine to help people, but please get their consent before helping them. Better yet, wait until they ask. So mind your own business. The third thing in recovery, we call it what's my part in things. So in an outside of recovery language, I would say, you know, if you're, especially if you have a recurring situation, whether it's with the same person or different people, take a look at the situation and say, what might I be doing to contribute to the chaos and dysfunction of that situation? What might I do to change things up? I know like for me, I literally always thought it was everybody else's fault. It's not like I walked around going, it's your fault, it's your fault. But clearly that's what I believed. So just assume you have some part in it. And if that were true, what might it be? And this is not about beating yourself up. This is about empowering you to make changes. So like, as you said at the beginning, Eve, we don't understand that we actually have control of our lives. When people, like when my clients find out that they can have way more control over their lives than they ever thought, they're astonished. And that was the same with me. And then the fourth way that I recommend for keeping the focus on yourself is to take really good care of yourself. Codependents typically neglect the shit out of themselves. They run themselves ragged. You know, they bleed themselves dry. Like for me, every money problem I ever had in my life had to do with my codependent because I was trying to buy people's affection. I was managing my image. I was rescuing and fixing other people. But take care of yourself. For me, much of that has to do with my physical body because I abused the shit out of myself with drugs, alcohol, food, cigarettes, toxic situations, risky situations, toxic relationships, you know, all kinds of things like that. So a lot of that has to do with my physical care, but really the bulk of it has to do with my spiritual care. Like I make lots of conscious contact with my higher power to remind myself constantly, I am part of something greater than myself. And the stuff that I'm seeing in the 3D world is not just it. There's a lot more going on. And I want to be in alignment with my spiritual life because I'm a spiritual being having a human experience, not a human being having a spiritual experience. But I also do take really good care of my body. I meditate at least twice a day. I mean, that's also a spiritual thing. I pray on a regular basis. I do yoga. My nervous system regulation is of the utmost priority for me. Whereas I just didn't even know that that was an option before. I didn't understand that I was in this fight or flight mode my entire life because I had always been in that mode and now I'm not. So those are four ways that I recommend to keep the focus on yourself. I love that. And I love the mind your own business, but because, you know, I can't even tell you how much unsolicited advice I get from friends, family all the time. And, you know, it's interesting because when you want to talk to somebody about an issue that you're having, sometimes you just want an ear. You don't want them to try and solve your whole life, right? And so you end up having to pick and choose what you tell people based on their reactions, you know? And so I noticed for myself that I try to avoid having those deeper conversations or conversations where I'm trying to work on something about myself with those people that are constantly not minding their own business and constantly trying to fix the problem when I didn't ask them to fix the problem. So I like to say if the person wants your advice or not, because a lot of times all they really want is someone to listen, you know? Learning how to build healthy boundaries means on the other side of that to say, I want to share something with you, but it's just because I'm venting or it's just because I need to process. I really don't want any feedback. Can you do that for me? So you can be proactive about getting your needs met and saying, you know, I'm really not looking for feedback. And, you know, for some people they might say, sure, you know, let's hear it. And for other people, they might say, you know what, that's not comfortable for me because I'm going to want to say what I want to say. And if you're not going to want to listen to what I have to say, then that's not comfortable for me. And so those are setting boundaries on both sides, right? And you say, no, that's okay. You got your answer. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I would love for you to talk to me about the most important mindset shift that really helped you to move through this recovery for yourself. Yeah, so there's actually two that are kind of interrelated. Okay. So I heard somebody on a recovery podcast years ago say info, not ammo. So what that means is when you're learning something new about yourself, which always happens in any kind of personal growth journey, that it's information for you to learn, integrate, and grow from. It is not ammunition for you to beat yourself up with. So Eve, I've always been a super optimistic, positive person who I thought I liked myself. But when I got in recovery, I saw that I was kind of like scanning the horizon at all times to beat the shit out of myself. So when I heard info, not ammo, I was like, whoa, wait. So in other words, be curious when you see something, especially if you don't like it. Like, what is this about? Where do I think this came from? What might I do differently? What can I learn from this? Same with other people. Like, if there's someone who's bugging the crap out of you in your life, be curious. Use this as info, not ammo. Like, what do I make of this? How might I change this? And the other one in some ways is related, and it's the concept of being flawsome. So it's a combination of the words flawed and awesome. So I grew up in a family where I somehow internalized the notion, I should not have flaws. And if I did, I goddamn well better hide them. So I was super defensive because I know I have flaws. And so I didn't want people to see that I had flaws. So when I heard this, I was like, wait, you can be both flawed and awesome? So somehow that just sort of let the walls down for me. And I started first accepting that I have flaws to myself. And I stopped judging myself so much. And then I started letting the walls down for other people and letting them see that I had flaws and being okay with it. And lo and behold, when I stopped judging myself, I stopped judging other people because I got that they were flawsome too. And so now I can make a public mistake and go, oops, I fucked up. Instead of being completely riddled with guilt and shame and wanting to die and crawl under a rock and trying to create a diversion so that people won't see that I screwed up or something like that. Because I get like, we make mistakes. You know, this is what we do. I've never been here before. I'm a human. I mean, maybe I have in another, I believe that in another incarnation, but I'm figuring this all out just like you. You know, we make mistakes. Oh, well. Of course, that's so true. And allowing yourself to be flawed, to make mistakes. This is how we learn. You know, if you don't make mistakes, you won't get very far. I mean, you really have to make lots of mistakes in order to learn. So be nice to yourself, right? You can be a nice person, but especially nice to yourself. It's funny that you said that you used to describe yourself as nice. And I sometimes have described myself as too nice. Yeah. I think kind is more important. I'd rather be kind because kind people don't lie. Nice to me can be a facade. Like you can meet somebody and interact with them every day at the coffee shop and think that they're nice. And then you meet them, you know, at a party and they're a dick, right? They were acting nice, but that doesn't mean that they're a kind person. Right. And kindness is always welcome. But you have to have boundaries around the niceness too, right? Because if you're constantly being nice, you know, to the expense of your own self, that's the issue there. Yeah. And that's not really nice because it's not nice to you. No. And you're not being real to the other person. That's right. Authenticity is so key. Last week, Eve interviewed the award-winning author of The Ins and Outs of My Vagina and Grab Your Life by the Dreams, Karen Freeland. She talked about being trapped by her corporate golden handcuffs and how she was able to find her purpose and live her dreams. Her story of finding her orgasm is one that many can relate to. If you can relate, go back and listen to this inspiring interview. I thought that you brought up earlier, you know, how you're able to have conversations with your partner ahead of the actual sexual act, right? I always say that that is so important for so many reasons. You know, number one, to protect yourself, right? You have to have that conversation about protection if it's a newer partner and you're not ready to have unprotected sex. So all of that needs to be discussed beforehand because in the moment, you know, if you wait around until then and the person doesn't have protection that you would expect them to have, or you don't have what you need, then you might be putting yourself in a situation that's not going to be comfortable for you. And so I love that. And then also being open to exploration, but also open to, in the middle of the exploration, saying, Hey, this is working for me, you know, I really wanted to try these, you know, this, you know, flogger or whatever it may be, right? I thought it might be really amazing, but I hate it, you know, let's not do that right now. Let's do something else. And you have to have that communication with your partner in order to grow as a couple and to enjoy sex. You want to expand on that a little bit? The first thing that just popped in my mind when you said that is lingerie. So yes, I am down over 150 pounds from my top weight, but I'm comfortable in my own skin that has nothing to do with weight. It has to do with this fullness piece that I'm talking about. And even though, like, I didn't grow up heavy, I was thin until my early twenties, and then I was thin off and on. And I wanted to wear lingerie in the past, and I just did not do it. And now I fucking love it. And it's so hot. And, you know, another thing that actually that what that's really about is that I've allowed myself to admit I love attention. I fucking love attention. And like, I am a public speaker. I love a captive audience. I just do. And I know that public speaking is one of the greatest fears that people have. Not me. Give me the microphone. Like, I love that. And my sweetheart, I can be like, hey, pay attention to me. Like, I can literally say that to him. But most of the time, I don't have to because, you know, we're in sync. We've been together for five and a half years. Um, and I have been able to ask for things that I want. I have been able to, like, without using words, like just moved his hand to a certain area or been like, I need you to grab my hips right now. You know, like, I just literally just would not make the words come out of my mouth. And I am not a wallflower and never have been. I've always been a pretty powerful woman who felt like she had agency in her life. But not in the bedroom, even though I always enjoyed sex before that. So that, you know, the communication part is really important. And I think, you know, one of the things that happened in this relationship that never happened before was I waited until I had emotional intimacy with him before we had sexual intimacy. And when he we were together for about three ish months, when he brought up in a very fun and playful way, having sex with me. And I said, listen, I want you. So this has nothing to do with me not wanting you, but I'm not ready. I don't even know what that means, because those words have never come out of my mouth before, but I'm not ready. But I'll tell you a couple things. I know I will need to be ready. One, we need to be exclusive. And two, we need to have STI testing. And he was like, done. And then a friend of mine from recovery said, you know, if you're going to wait Barbie might as well, like make a plan and go away and make it really special. And I'm so glad she told me that because we picked a date, which was January 15th, 2019. And he was like, I'll find an Airbnb. And he did all the work. And then he goes, I'm going to rent an SUV. That way, if it's snowing, we can go. And I was like, oh, I love that attitude. Like he's eager, this shit's happening. But what he said to me was, I'm going to rent a monster truck. Nothing, rain, snow, sleep. Nothing is going to stop us from going through. So he actually said, I'm going to rent a monster truck. And so I go, a monster truck. He goes, okay, well, it's an SUV. So we rented this place. It was called the, it was an Airbnb. It was called the Writer's Cottage. So we were like counting down, oh, 15 more days. Oh, 10 more days until we get to have sex. So we anticipated it. And then of course we made it into this big deal. And then we have all these memories. So by waiting and planning and going away, we made it this huge deal. And it was fantastic. We loved it. We had such a great time. We still talk about it to this day about like how much fun that was. And it was the first time we ever went away together. And we realized we travel really well together and all this stuff. So it was just, but I couldn't do any of that because I needed to. Like I tried to hotwire intimacy by having sex. Yes. Thinking that that was intimacy. And I now know that it's emotional intimacy that I was seeking. And I got that first. And then, oh my God, sex is so much better when you have emotional intimacy. Absolutely. I 100% agree with that. You know, when you care about the other person, you are going to enjoy the experience so much more. That's not to say that hookup sex can't be amazing too sometimes. But, you know, when you're building a relationship, I think that that is a beautiful story because you really built the anticipation. You know, I love that you brought up lingerie. And I did a whole episode about this in season one on lingerie. Lingerie is just such an amazing way to make yourself feel sexy. You know, you put it on, you're just like, I'm a badass, right? Yes. Yes. And you know what's wild, Eve? Is because I'm down over 100 pounds, I don't know if you can see it here, but like on my arms, on my thighs, on my belly, I have lots of extra flap that said, he does not care. He's like, there is a naked woman in front of me. And I don't care either. You know, I just somehow it doesn't bother me because it's like, whatever. I mean, I fit into a size eight now, whereas I was in like a 22, 24 before. Who cares if they're sagging stuff? Like stop getting hung up on what he thinks. You know what he thinks? He thinks there's a naked woman who wants me in front of me. He's not thinking like, oh my God, her belly sucks, you know? And if he is, get rid of him. That's right. That's right. Or she, excuse me, or she. He or she, whoever. Right. Criticizing you for the way that you look. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Moving along because, you know, everybody and every body is beautiful. Whether you have a little extra here or a little extra there, or maybe you're bony here or bony there, you know what I mean? Who cares? What is important is that you're connecting to your own sensuality, your own body, and really allowing yourself to enjoy the pleasure that we were all made for. Our bodies were built for pleasure. So on that note, I'm going to ask my final question. Okay. What tools do you bring into the bedroom to make it spicier? So I'm inclined to say boundaries, but what I think that really means is the wholeness. Like I'm grounded in me. I know who I am. I know what my limits are. I know what's okay with me. And so I guess it also means communication because I know what my limits are and I communicate them to my partner. And I can say things like higher, lower, faster, slower, and mostly don't need to anymore. Or turn me around or let me get on top or whatever. Whereas in the past, it was like once things were going, I just went with whatever he wanted to do, you know? So and, you know, I feel like I'm able to let it rip in the bedroom in a way that I just wasn't before because I'm solid in me. It's amazing. Yes. Self-love is so key. Having those boundaries and knowing what you want and don't want. And it's okay in the middle of it to stop and say, hey, I need a break. Hey, this isn't feeling right. Hey, I need to go to the bathroom for a second. Or I'm done. I don't think that I want to continue right now. This isn't feeling right to me or for whatever reason it is. You know, it's okay. It's okay to let your partner know what your needs are in the moment, whether it be an enthusiastic yes or a no. So I love that you say that. Communication, I always say, is like so important in relationships. It is. And who doesn't want, you know, I think that your partners want to know what makes us feel good. And they want to see that. It cannot read our minds. So help them out. Tell them what you like. You know, it's okay to say a little slower, you know, move your hand a little down or pull my hips this way. Yeah, it could be for you. It's okay to say any of those things. You know, the things that you're thinking in your mind and can't get out. Just say it. So thank you so much for being on the show. I want to make sure that my listeners can find you. My favorite place to hang out on social media is on Instagram. I'm at Higher Power Coaching. And then, of course, I would love it if you listen to my podcast. So you can either go to Fragmented2Whole.com or you're probably listening on a podcast outlet right now, like Spotify or something like that. And so you could just search for Fragmented2Whole there. And I would love to know what you thought of the show. I have one last thing I want to say even that is that my partner was 55. No, I was 55. And he was 60 when we met. So I'm 61. And he's 66. Now we're having the hottest fucking sex of our lives. I'm telling you, this is when you learn yourself. And this is when you learn what you want and don't want. And this is when you learn how to say what you want and you don't want. And this is when you have the most amazing sex. And, you know, so if you're listening out there and you haven't done it yet, know that you can eventually get scared. But you have to work on yourself. And so that is what we have been talking about today. And I thank you all for listening. And I want to make sure that my listeners can find me as well. You can go to PleaseMe.online and reach out to me there. You can send me a message or you can give me a call on the OWL app. My code for the OWL app is EH576472. And you can call me on there. I'd love to talk to you. If I'm not on live, you can always send me a request to go live. And if I'm available, I will hop on to have that conversation with you. I just want to put in here, too, that I belong to a community on sdc.com. It's called the PleaseMe Health Collective. It is my group. And it's a growing group. Today, we had an amazing webinar. And I do two free webinars every single month. And so get on sdc.com. It is the ENM, or Modern Lifestyle, website for dating. But it's also a place of education. There is so much education on there regarding relationships and modern style relationships and so many things. So today, I was talking about erectile dysfunction and decreased vaginal sensitivity and dryness, which are treatments that I do in my physical therapy practice. So I encourage you to look back at that. And the live is on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube. So check that out. And if you want to check out the website, my promo code is 37340. And you can get a free trial membership and check me out there. So don't forget to, if you do go on there, send me a message and say hello. With that, I'm going to say goodbye. Thank you so much for being on the show today, Barb. I really appreciate you being here today. Oh, thank you. This was great. I loved it. Me too. Until next time. Alrighty. Bye. Bye-bye. Visit pleaseme.online to reach Eve or for more information on products to increase blood flow and overall health, for her curated list of her favorite toys, and for swag that shows that you are a big fan. Please consider supporting the show. Looking for the best live streaming or podcast recording site? Look no further than StreamYard. Get $10 off your first purchase. For podcast hosting, Buzzsprout is the absolute best option out there. Get $20 off your first purchase. Have any questions? Feel free to call me on the OWL app. Use code EH576472 for $10 free to use on the best networking app around. Give me a call. If you're experiencing sexual issues and need a physical therapy consultation or appointment, reach out to Eve and make an appointment on pleaseme.online.