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Ageless Passion: Debunking Myths About Older Women and Desire with Karen Anne Coccioli (audio)

July 10, 2024 Eve
Ageless Passion: Debunking Myths About Older Women and Desire with Karen Anne Coccioli (audio)
Please Me!
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Please Me!
Ageless Passion: Debunking Myths About Older Women and Desire with Karen Anne Coccioli (audio)
Jul 10, 2024
Eve

In this episode of Please Me!, Eve dives deep into a candid conversation with Karen Anne Coccioli, an erotica writer who brings a unique perspective as a member of the LGBTQ+ and kink communities. Karen shares her personal journey of coming out later in life and navigating two heterosexual marriages.
They explore the complexities of sexuality and identity, challenging societal norms and stereotypes, particularly around ageism and older women's sexuality. Karen dismantles the myth that older women are not sexual beings, sharing her experiences and insights into how desire evolves with age.

Key topics include:
-Karen's transition from a heterosexual marriage to embracing her lesbian identity.
-Her experiences as an erotica writer and the intersections of LGBTQ+ and kink communities in her work.
-Addressing ageism and societal perceptions of older women's sexuality.
-Debunking stereotypes through Karen's own experiences and observations.
-The importance of representation and visibility in erotica and literature.

Karen Anne Coccioli brings a refreshing honesty and wisdom to the conversation, challenging listeners to rethink their assumptions about sexuality, identity, and aging.

Join Eve and Karen on this enlightening journey of self-discovery and liberation.

Connect with Karen Anne Coccioli and explore her work at 

Key Questions Addressed:

  1. How did Karen Anne Caccioli overcome childhood trauma through writing and self-exploration?
  2. Why is it important to live authentically and embrace one's true self at any age?
  3. How does writing erotica contribute to Karen's personal healing and challenge societal norms?
  4. What role do consent and communication play in BDSM and kink relationships?
  5. How can we address ageism in the context of sexuality and pleasure for older adults?

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Support the Show

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  • Website: Please Me Online - Reach Eve and stay connected.
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  • Organic Loven: Treat yourself to new bedroom toys at this incredible website. Explore Organic Loven
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Show Notes Transcript

In this episode of Please Me!, Eve dives deep into a candid conversation with Karen Anne Coccioli, an erotica writer who brings a unique perspective as a member of the LGBTQ+ and kink communities. Karen shares her personal journey of coming out later in life and navigating two heterosexual marriages.
They explore the complexities of sexuality and identity, challenging societal norms and stereotypes, particularly around ageism and older women's sexuality. Karen dismantles the myth that older women are not sexual beings, sharing her experiences and insights into how desire evolves with age.

Key topics include:
-Karen's transition from a heterosexual marriage to embracing her lesbian identity.
-Her experiences as an erotica writer and the intersections of LGBTQ+ and kink communities in her work.
-Addressing ageism and societal perceptions of older women's sexuality.
-Debunking stereotypes through Karen's own experiences and observations.
-The importance of representation and visibility in erotica and literature.

Karen Anne Coccioli brings a refreshing honesty and wisdom to the conversation, challenging listeners to rethink their assumptions about sexuality, identity, and aging.

Join Eve and Karen on this enlightening journey of self-discovery and liberation.

Connect with Karen Anne Coccioli and explore her work at 

Key Questions Addressed:

  1. How did Karen Anne Caccioli overcome childhood trauma through writing and self-exploration?
  2. Why is it important to live authentically and embrace one's true self at any age?
  3. How does writing erotica contribute to Karen's personal healing and challenge societal norms?
  4. What role do consent and communication play in BDSM and kink relationships?
  5. How can we address ageism in the context of sexuality and pleasure for older adults?

Support the Show.

Support the Show

Explore these affiliates and support Please Me Podcast:

  • Website: Please Me Online - Reach Eve and stay connected.
  • OWWLL App: Call Eve on OWWLL app using code EH576472 for a $10 free trial. Download OWWLL
  • SDC.com: Join the premiere "modern lifestyle" ENM website with a free trial membership using code 37340. Sign up on SDC.com
  • Streamyard: Get $10 towards your streaming products and stream live with Eve! Visit Streamyard
  • Organic Loven: Treat yourself to new bedroom toys at this incredible website. Explore Organic Loven
  • Parlor Games: Hormone replacement for women, eliminating issues like incontinence. Shop at Parlor Games
  • Buzzsprout: Save $20 on the best podcast hosting site. Get Buzzsprout
  • LifeWave: Experience stem cell technology that enhances libido and changes lives. Visit LifeWave
  • Juice Plus+: Enjoy plant-based nutrition with the nutrition of 30 fruits and veggies daily....

Who's looking for a sexy date? STC.com is the premier ethically non-monogamous dating site that also houses a wealth of information regarding sexuality and sexual health. Join the Please Me Health Collective on STC.com and listen to Eve's free live webinars. Use code 37340 for free trial membership. Maybe you are in the market for some sexy toys to add some spice to the bedroom. Check out the organic love and link for the best online store for sex toys, lubes, and more. This podcast is intended for mature audiences. Eve is a licensed sexual health physical therapist on a mission to destigmatize conversations about sex. Please sit back and surrender to the pleasure of Please Me. Hello and welcome to Please Me, the podcast that aims to destigmatize conversations about sex and sexual health by turning the sheets into our classroom. I'm here to introduce an amazing guest named Karen Ann Cotioli, and she is a self-proclaimed lifelong learner. She believes that age is just a number, which I also do, and she identifies as an androgynous gay woman. And she is a published author who holds a PhD in comparative literature, gender studies, sexuality, and madness. And I want to welcome you to the show today. Welcome to Please Me, Karen. How are you today? Thank you. I am so excited to be on, Eve. I really am. I just love your show and what you're offering to people to please themselves and to live the most amazing life that they can. And sexuality is a big component of that. Absolutely. I am a big pleasure advocate. And so that's part of what this show is all about, is really allowing people to express themselves fully in that way and to teach people how to communicate in that way as well. Because a lot of people just don't know what to say, how to move forward with having these conversations with their partners. Right, exactly. And like in my case, not having a partner, but still being able to pleasure myself, to be able to find people to be around me that are also on the same wavelength with this, because it's not always the case. And as we talked about, I'm 74 years old, but I'm still so active sexually, active in the lifestyle. And as you mentioned, a lifelong learner. And I think the writing helps that because being able to write stories about people, I'm constantly exploring them and exploring their identities and their sexuality. And it's just a fun way to live. Absolutely. I agree. And you're a part of the kink community, and we're going to get into that in a little bit. But I would love to just go back a little bit in time, just so that people can understand sort of your background. And I would love to delve into your experience with marriage, divorce, and how you were able to break free from the societal norms that told you that for a woman, marriage was the only correct option. So, yeah, it's a long story. I'm going to try to make it kind of brief. But I grew up in an Italian household, very conservative. And fortunately, my childhood was, I was sexually abused from my father. So it was a really hard, traumatic childhood for me. And actually writing was literally what saved me. So what happens, or to me, when you have that kind of trauma and you're sexually abused and molested for certain years of your childhood, it hardwires your brain in a way to say that if you go out of the norm, if you step out of the box that you were put in, you're going to get punished severely. So that led me to marrying twice and abused men, abusive men and having children. And I love my sons and my grandsons. But would my life perhaps had been different? Yeah, probably would have. So for me, the journey to come out was so long, so arduous, so tumultuous, because I knew I was at least a lesbian when I was, I had a crush on a Rosemary Matteo in seventh grade. So I did, you know, but so it was a very, very, very difficult, especially because when you, or I shouldn't say when you, when I came from that kind of trauma, I just found it so difficult to break through. I did not get divorced until I was almost 60. And so I, although I dipped into, I was a single woman also throughout some of that time in between, and I just started, you know, exploring who I was. But to be very honest, I wasn't really who I was meant to be until only 15 years ago, where I lived it actively and lived it truthfully and authentically. And I love that story because, you know, it is never too late to explore your authenticity, you know, whether you're, you know, 25 or 85, you know, and it's so important to really look within and see how you can make your life better, how you can make yourself happy if you're not. And if you know these things about yourself and those things are internal and you're not able to express them, you're really, you know, giving yourself, I mean, you're putting yourself at a disservice, right? So I appreciate you sharing that story and being so honest about it. I know that I too was abused as a child by the age of 10. I had been abused by five people in my family. And, you know, that really set me up for a whole lifetime of trying to heal from that. And it took a very long time. And I just always remember that my grandmother, every time I would visit her and I love her to death, and she has recently, she passed away a couple of years ago, but every time I would see her and I didn't get married until I was 36. So for that, you know, for my culture, I'm Caribbean, Puerto Rican, American, and, you know, that is really, really late, you know? That is really late. And so, you know, every time I would see her, the first question she would ask me was, when are you getting married? You know, and to her, that was like the epitome of success for a woman, you know, and it didn't matter that I had a career and that I was living on my own and supporting myself and like doing all of these amazing things and living an amazing life. For her, marriage was the only choice, you know, and that really was the societal pressure on women and still really is in a lot of ways, you know, unfortunately. I'm so impressed that you actually, considering that you also had trauma as a child, that you actually like created a life for yourself. See, that's where sometimes I feel, I don't know, seriously, I think I've lost years in between, but I'm really impressed by that. That your wonderful role model for people have been through that because unfortunately, it took me a lot more years longer to get through it. I finally did and gave myself permission to really explore who I was and then able to live that way. But kudos to you that you're able to do it. Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. And, you know, for all of us that have experienced trauma, it is really a journey of healing and it's multi-layered. And, you know, you heal the first layer of the onion and then there's another layer to heal and then there's another layer to heal. And it's interesting because, you know, doing this podcast has been another layer of healing for me that I wasn't even anticipating when I started it. So I'm really grateful for that, for sure. And for meeting women like you and all of the other amazing guests that I've had that have really helped me to heal in so many other different ways that I wasn't even anticipating. It's been a wonderful journey. I would love to know about the two pen names that you write under and why you chose to write under pen names and tell us about the genres of books that you write about. So I actually write under my real name, Karen Ann Caccioli, and actually my book, Paradise, is a hybrid memoir and it tells a story of my, everything from the trauma to triumph, I call it, right? So it goes through the, you know, how a lot of portions of how I healed and where I got to be where I am today. So I am very, very proud of that book. But so because I do have sons and have grandchildren and when I really wanted to start writing erotica, I decided to write under a pen name. And Annie is from my middle name, is Anne. And I just kind of always liked Annie. And then Moon because when I was a child and we, I grew up in an old colonial three-story house. And when I wanted to feel, the only place I felt safe was in the attic. The stairs were very, very steep and narrow. So I knew that my father coming up or someone coming up after me, they kind of hesitated. They didn't really come up. And I stayed alone and I would look out the fan light window into the night and see the moon and really write my first poetry. And the poems I wrote back then were looking at the planets and the moon and just, you know, trying to figure out how do I, how do I get through my life right now? As a child and being here. So Annie Moon does have a lot of meaning for me. A lot of meaning. It's interesting because even in my writing, so I started writing full-time just a few, just three years ago. And when I decided to write erotica and BDSM kink, I started and you could see the, even in my books, my very first book in my series, Late in Love. And the title says a lot because it does talk about someone coming out later and finding love later. But you could see even in my books, how my journey has evolved so that I've become more open even in my writing and how the characters handle each other. And because of my gender studies, my writing is always informed by a lot of my studies. So even in the erotica, it's not just porn. It's certainly sexual, you know, fetish. But there's always a message, right? There's always a message that when you read it, I would like people to have an aha moment where they're learning something. So, yeah. That's amazing. And, you know, I love that you write about erotica and I've had other author, another author on and her pen name is Renee Moon. So you have that connection with the moon, you know, and I wonder, I wonder, you know, I need to ask her, you know, about why she chose moon as her last name because you have a very specific story about that. And I love that. Please consider supporting the show. Are you in menopause? Perimenopause or postmenopause? I have found the absolute best products called Parlor Games. I use the Estreol and Progesterone topical creams and they have been game changers. Maybe you've listened to the show and want to be featured as a guest. Eve uses Podmatch to connect with new or potential guests. Reach out and begin the process today. I know that you're well established in the kink community and I know we talked a lot about labels and how we hate them, right? And they put us into this box and, you know, really in sexuality, there is no box there. It's just open. You know, if you can just expand your mind to, and be creative, you can really explore in a lot of different ways. But you do talk about, and we did talk about you being a pain slut. And I would love for you to define that for us. And so that we could understand what that means to you specifically. Okay. So actually my logo is under author Annie Moon is the erotic writings. And you're finding the balance between the pleasure and pain. So when I was young, and I don't know if this has anything to do with it or not, because some people would feel that when you are after pain, you're doing it for very negative reasons, right? You're doing it because mentally you're not, you just wanna purge yourself, right? So there's people sometimes have body modification because of it, or they'll hurt their self. And it's not like that when it's actually comes from a very healthy place, a fetish. Now, for me, there's kind of two differences. I have a very good friend who's actually a masochist. So masochist is a person who really just wants to be hurt, wants the pain. So the sadomasochism is one piece of it. I don't come from that kind of school of pain. Mine is in, it's called when I was in a DS relationship, a dominant submissive relationship as a submissive. And if the pain actually settles me, grounds me, and I find much, a lot of pleasure in it. And if you're in a very committed, but for me, I prefer being in a committed relationship. And then there's not all the times, but a lot of times is sexual activity, right? That comes with that. You'll have sex after that, because you get into such a state of mind in the pain that is called subspace, where you're actually kind of lose yourself and you're floating and you're just safe. So for me, the pain is not just, the pain causes a very positive, ethereal feeling inside me. I know I'm loved. I know I'm taken care of. I know that the world out there is not touching me right at this minute, no matter what has happening, the world is not touching me. So there is a balance. Now I, and I'm talking a lot of pain. I mean, I like to be caned. I like to be flogged. So it's not just spankings. There's things called needle play and nipple play. And I could go on a list of things of where the pain is. And with that, I also like to be humiliated. But again, it's humiliation that comes from a place of, I'm a submissive who wants to be a subservient to my dominant. And humiliation for me is a way of offering me to the person that I love, or that I'm in a relationship with. So when it comes to pain, that could be, that really is a whole other whole long discussion, because I said, it depends on how you identify. You have submissive, are you a dominant? Are you a masochist? It's, it also, it, you know, a lot of other things come into play. So again, it's not a very strident, strict identity, actually. Yes. But, you know, but for me, it brings a lot of, it brings joy. It'll bring me closer to the person I'm with. I won't have pain. I won't do scenes is what they're called. I won't do them just with anybody. You know, there has to be an intimate connection. There has to be something that, that's really, I'm connected with the person. Yes. And, you know, there is a really fine line between pain and pleasure, in my opinion, you know, and pain can be pleasurable if you open your mind to it. And, you know, everybody has their own degree of what they would enjoy or not enjoy. Some people are absolutely no pain whatsoever. And then you have the other end of the spectrum where you, like you said, you like to be caned and there's like all sorts of things. I mean, the needles and all of that, which is probably beyond me, but I definitely love a little pain with my pleasure for sure. So I can completely relate to that. And, you know, there's nothing that brings you faster to the present moment that then a good, like spank at the right moment or, you know, or something like that, that brings you right into the moment. And now you're completely present and you're with the person that you're with and you can experience fully the sensations that you're feeling. Right. It's very arousing to me. It really is very, very arousing. I mean, I just crave sex. If I do craze, if I'm in a good pain session with someone, you know, I want the sex next. I want that next. And then the aftercare, right? And then you always want to have someone who's going to do what they call aftercare afterward. And it's going to embrace you and, you know, cuddle you and give you the, you usually need a lot of water after that. And, you know, let you come down from subspace, you know, very gently and again, safe. Right. So of course, and I do want to mention, I feel obligated to say this, but everything has to be, of course, with safe and consensual consent. That is the most, most, most, most, most important things. I mean, in all of my books and the forward, there's always a reminder that anything that I write about, even when I write about is, you know, it's always consented, right? Consensual consent and safe. That's especially when you get into some fetishes like the choking or the needles or even bondage. You really want to know that you could trust the person that, and using safe words, you know, that if you need a scene to be stopped, trust that person is going to stop that scene immediately. And I think that the kink community does communication so much better than regular relationships, right? Because you are having all of these very specific, detailed conversations about what you want to do, what you will not do. You have safe words that would help you to end the scene right at the moment if you aren't feeling comfortable. It's enthusiastic consent from both parties. And that is so key with any sexual experience, whether it be vanilla or lots of other flavors. Well, no, you're right. And it really is, you know, your limits, right? What you want to do and end like a scene. It's like you said, you know, you will know exactly what's going to happen. There's nothing there, you know, I mean, there's a surprise sometimes in that, you know, how you react. But yeah, when you're talking about these things, and I do agree that I think vanilla relationships a lot of times might be very beneficial to have more conversations about it. Yes, because you just assume, right? And a vanilla relationship that your partner knows exactly what to do to turn you on and to pleasure you. How would you assume that? Nobody can read your mind, you know? So you must have these conversations. It is key to any relationship, whether it be kink or vanilla and everything in between, right? And so if we're not having these conversations, it's going to be much harder to get our needs met. So I applaud the kink community for doing such a good job about having these conversations and always asking for consent. And it's not just once, but it's throughout the whole entire scene. You're constantly asking for consent, constantly making sure that the person is okay with what's going on and moving forward. Right, exactly, exactly. I know that you talked about, you had gotten some bad news and you, the first thing that you wanted to do was go into subspace, right? In order to cope. And I love the idea of using our sex lives as a coping mechanism. Can you kind of jump into that a little bit? Oh, yeah, I, yes. So I had gotten sexual coma and well, thankfully I don't have to have surgeries. Oh, okay. We're going to try something else. But anyway, but I, yes, I, you know, and I'm not in a relationship now and I was upset when the doctor said I had to have this major surgery on both eyes. And yes, I, you know, was distraught. And my personality is, I tend to start thinking about too many things. I get a little bit, you know, lost. It's probably why I love, right? Because I can tend to daydream so fast, but I think of all different scenarios and all I wanted, literally Eve, I was driving home. It wasn't even, I was just about out the doors of the office and I was driving home and thinking, oh my goodness, what I wouldn't give to be with a dom right now and, or a dom, a mistress and have a good pain session and just have them take me out of it, you know, and have sex and have, let me, let me, like you said, float in the subspace. Let me just deal, because I find when I'm in subspace, whatever's going on in my life, even though I'm not actively thinking about it, it seems to settle it. So it grounds me. I can't tell you how it grounds me so much, so much. Again, I just want to add here for the people who may not have done this and are, think that they're over the age or not, you know, I want you to remember, like, you know, at my age at 74, this was like the first thing that I thought of was to pleasure me, pleasure myself, find someone who can give me the pleasure I need and the way to, that cared about me and the way to kind of think this through. And then after the pain, after that, then we'll sit down and, you know, the person will say, it's going to be all right. Everything's going to be all right. You know, and it does, but it was the very first thing I thought about as a way to just, you know, get myself over, just, you know, so I could, you know, take time to settle. To process it and all of that. Yeah, absolutely. And I had another guest on the show named Edward Miske and he talks about having cancer and dealing with going through chemotherapy and radiation and all of that. And he used sex to cope as well, you know, to get through that time because in an experience when you have cancer, where you feel very much out of control and, you know, you're, you know, going to this appointment and going to that appointment and constantly being probed and this and that. And you really are at the hands of, you know, the medical community and it's very, you know, disconcerting. And he felt that he, you know, sex was something that he could control. And so he used it as a coping mechanism and I can totally see how it can be used in so many different ways. So I appreciate that you shared that because, you know, people think of sex in a lot of different ways, but often not in ways that I think that would help us to cope. And it is really good for stress relief, helps stress with sleep. And, you know, all of those endorphins released in your body after you've, you know, had a great session, right? You know, I mean, it helps you to feel happy in your life and it brings you joy. So, you know, I like to just put that out there. We talked about some of the heroines in your books and you talked about having a couple of different books, one of which had a very young heroine and another that had an older heroine. And you found a difference in the sales of those books. And I want to just talk a little bit about ageism here. Oh, thank you. And, you know, ageism is, I get it. And I think, you know, like we, I think I mentioned to you, I have a six month old puppy that I got. And, you know, the first thing that my family said to me or, you know, is why, you know, like my son said, mom, like you're 74, like, what are you thinking? You know, and I'm thinking again, I live alone. I love having the dogs, they're company. They bring me joy, especially this little puppy. He's like, he stole my heart. So, but, you know, ageism is, I was pushed out of my full-time position. I was a director of education at a nonprofit and I got kind of pushed out because of the age. And it was the best thing that ever happened to me because I began writing full-time. But as you mentioned, whenever I write with an older person and in Late in Love, which is the first book of my series, the woman is 69 years old and a much younger woman falls for her. And she, you know, wears a strap-on. She dresses, you know, she dresses, but she's active. She runs her own business. If I didn't say that she was 69 years old and you read the story and I do purposely, I want people to know that writing about age, because this is what I want to bring out, right? That this person is active. I want you to know she's 69 years old. And I want you to know that there's a younger woman who's really attracted to her. And I want you to know that she runs a successful business. But yes, it doesn't matter their sales. The book would have had much different sales, I think, had the people not known at the age. And the book cover is actually very sexy. The designer did the book cover because in the book, the gals got tattoos. And so the book cover, the gals got tattoos and she's sexy. And maybe what I would have, you know, looked like more like, you know, 30 years ago. So she is a little bit younger, but which I thought would have helped. But I think it makes a difference. People don't have a really understanding. There's a real myth about older. And there's so many like older actresses that are still, you know, Meryl Streep. And I just saw Jane Seymour in a movie last night. And just, you know, so many older actresses, but it's still not totally understood. Ageism is just a real big factor in life. And in all different kinds of, on all different levels, it hits me in the face in the most unexpected moments sometimes. But yes, with the writing. And when I write about younger, or especially in the gay, like I write both lesbian and gay, I write kind of all across the rainbow. But, you know, the older and the younger, and there's certain tropes, right? That the dominant has to be older. And the, you know, the submissive has to be younger. And the submissive has got to be beautiful. And the dominance got to, you know, there's certain tropes that people expect. And I'm little by little, just trying to kind of break the mold of that. I agree because it doesn't matter how old you are. If you like being a submissive, you're going to be a submissive. If you like to be a dominant, you're going to be a dominant. It doesn't matter how old you are, you know? And if you're a strap on or not, you're just a third fold if it makes you feel good. You know, it, yeah, yeah, it does. I came across a poem just in kind of getting ready for the show. And then I was actually looking for something. And I came across a poem that I wrote, like literally I must've had it right at 30 years ago, if not longer. And it's called The Folly of a God Not Looking. And I didn't realize that back when I was much younger, like in my 20s at that time, I was talking about the lack I felt because I didn't have a penis. I mean, and it was a poem about wanting to be, you know, like, so the androgynous in me, right? And it was a poem about wanting to be, and the, you know, about how men are, they have a better language, right? Over women who don't necessarily aren't heard. It just struck me because then it's like, wow, you know? And I'm sorry, I digress there, but it just kind of hit me that sometimes, and I guess a message I'd like to tell to all the listeners who are listening is that, you know, kind of pay attention to those little things that happened even when you're younger and years ago that maybe you didn't explore then, but that you'd like to kind of go back to now and explore. And I would love to explore more about this and more about strap-ons and about how, you know, certain parts of the lesbian communities wear them more than others, you know? And I didn't actually even know that. I just thought that, you know, some people like strap-ons, some people don't, and it doesn't matter who you are or whatever. I would love to delve into that, but I think that's gonna be for another podcast because we are running out of time. And I did wanna say something about this because ageism is such a problem, and we discount women specifically, even more so as they get older. And, you know, we discount their opinions, their experiences, and even expect that they don't deserve or need pleasure anymore, you know? And honestly, you know, when you look at the STI statistics, right, sexually transmitted infections, more than doubled in the last 10 years in the 65-plus community. So that shows that, one, we need more education about STI prevention in some community, but two, that everyone is having sex even at, you know, 65-plus, you know? And so, you know, we shouldn't discount that just because somebody is older that they're suddenly not interested in sex anymore. Give me a break. Like, we all deserve love and pleasure. Right, exactly, exactly. Last week, Eve interviewed Barb Nangle, a Boundaries coach who talked about how 12-step recovery changed her life and improved her ability to communicate, which led to the most incredible sex life of her entire life. It is definitely a must listen. So I am going to just wrap things up here because I think we can have a whole other podcast about all of the other notes that I have in front of me that I want to ask you about because I just, I have so many questions for you. But I just want to first ask you my very last question that I ask all of my guests. It is, what tools do you bring into the bedroom to make things spicier? And it doesn't have to be a physical object. It can be anything. I would say my arousal. I don't, I mean, I get, you know, for anyone who's my age, you want to be taking hormones unless you can't. And I get aroused as much now as I do when I was like in my 20s and 30s. But I would say, I think just the mentality. And I'm sorry if I'm not being more specific, but it kind of caught me. But I do think I bring the energy. I bring the arousal. I bring the desire. That I think is probably the most important in any toy. And I do use toys too. But that to me is more, it's what's in the imagination and the, and- Your mindset, your mindset, basically. Yeah, you have to bring the right mindset. And I think that that's key. And, you know, I've had this conversation before where, you know, if you're not, if you're not mentally prepared for the moment, you know, no matter what you do, you're not going to get there because your mind is off thinking about something completely different. You know, you have to be present and you have to have the right mindset to be ready to receive pleasure and to experience pleasure. Right. So I completely agree. Well, I want to make sure that all of my listeners can find you. So tell us where we can find you. All right. So I am on Author Annie Moon. And please, yeah, don't forget the author because there's an Annie Moon out there, but she's a children's book writer. Definitely not me. And then also I'm on Instagram and Facebook. And then I do have a website under my name, Karen Ann Caccioli. And that is not the more erotica if you're into erotica and you want to read about some fun fetishes, then please. And yes, for anyone out there who is my age, please go out and buy Late in Love. It's the very first book of a four book series. So I think you'll enjoy it. Wonderful. Yes. Everyone go out there and buy that book. It sounds very enticing. And I just want to make sure that my listeners can find me as well. On pleaseme.online. As a licensed physical therapist, I treat conditions of the pelvic floor and sexual health. I treat conditions such as erectile dysfunction, decreased vaginal sensitivity and dryness, incontinence and painful sex and a host of other sexual health conditions. So if you find that that's you and you're listening, please don't hesitate to reach out and say, hello, I'm here to help. And there is no shame in having a sexual health condition. And a lot of times people will wait too long before they seek help because of the shame and stigma. And I just want to say that you are not alone and that there is help for you if you are experiencing anything like that. So with that being said, I want to make sure that my listeners can also call me and you can call me on the OWL app and you can use the code EH576472 and we can speak directly on the app. And if you're interested in more modern quote unquote relationships and you want to explore that a little bit more, you can go onto sdc.com, which is a worldwide community of people who are kinksters and swingers and polyamorous and open relationships. And this will give you a free trial session. So be sure to check that out if that's something that you're interested in. And please support the show on pleaseme.online. With that being said, I want to thank you again for being on the show today, Karen. And thanks for being here today on Please Me. Well, thank you so much. Until next time. Visit pleaseme.online to reach Eve or for more information on products to increase blood flow and overall health. For her curated list of her favorite toys and for swag that shows that you are a big fan. Please consider supporting the show. Looking for the best live streaming or podcast recording site? Look no further than StreamYard. Get $10 off your first purchase. For podcast hosting, Buzzsprout is the absolute best option out there. Get $20 off your first purchase. Have any questions? Feel free to call me on the OWL app. Use code EH576472 for $10 free to use on the best networking app around. Give me a call. If you're experiencing sexual issues and need a physical therapy consultation or appointment, reach out to Eve and make an appointment on pleaseme.online.