Why is MDEP Taking So Long?

Microsoft’s ambitious plan to unify device ecosystems under one platform has hit several delays. Originally intended to create a unified version of Android for all Microsoft Teams Room (MTRoA) devices, the rollout has so far been non-existent. In this podcast, Dave and David discuss potential reasons why it's taking so long. 

Recorded August 2024. 

Transcript

Dave Michels: 2:27

Hi! It's Dave Michael from talking points we're here with another talking points. Chat so, Hello, David! How are you.

David Danto: 2:33

Hello, Dave! Good to see you as always. What country are you in today?

Dave Michels: 2:37

We're both in New Jersey this.

David Danto: 2:40

There you go!

Dave Michels: 2:40

We're both in New Jersey today. So you know, you've been asking a lot of tough questions at vendors, walking around infocom and talking to a lot of these video vendors. And the question you keep asking is, when is Mdep going to ship. And so I think that we should do a episode and answer that question with accuracy and and the pinpoint date. So should we go ahead and do this.

David Danto: 3:10

Yeah, but I don't know that we're ever going to be able to do that. I think it's still kind of end of August. Soon.

Dave Michels: 3:20

Okay.

David Danto: 3:20

Maybe.

Dave Michels: 3:21

Well.

David Danto: 3:21

Yeah, maybe.

Dave Michels: 3:23

i i i'm gonna say no way in hell this year, but but it's coming. It's coming soon, but we'll get into that conversation. But but 1st let's do a little bit of a just a a recap of what Mdep is. And and so why don't you? Why don't you go ahead and start off, and and I'll fill in some some things you miss.

David Danto: 3:42

So the Microsoft Device ecosystem platform long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, everybody had multiple versions of android. Microsoft said. We can't control all these different version of androids. We're going to give you our version of Android. And that version of Android is what they're referring to as Mdep. And that version of Mdep will be for both video devices. And now, non video devices, we learned a couple of weeks.

Dave Michels: 4:06

Okay, so that's a that's a key. That's a little key thing that you kind of blurred in there. So when Mdup was announced, which I think was an enterprise connect 2023 year and a half ago. It was really around an Mtr. Framework, a. A. Microsoft teams room framework, and I think a lot of people thought that was the scope. I think we thought that was the scope the universe of, and I don't think they call it Mdep back then, either. But but that was the scope and universe of what was going to become Mdep. But it's becoming clear that maybe that isn't the scope of Mdep. Maybe it is getting bigger. In fact, we you you saw a product at Infocom that wasn't an Mtr. What that was a barcos. I remember.

David Danto: 4:52

Yeah, the barco click share is an android sharing device that doesn't have any video collaboration pieces in it right now. And that's going to be one of the 1st non video Mdep products to come out. But you know, it's important to point out. And I I don't. Wanna. I wanna be correct, as correct as I can be, not knowing all the technical information, because people chastise me if I get it wrong. But but the video team, the team. That's doing. Mtr. Aren't the ones in charge of Mdep. It's a completely different team in Microsoft. Now that's running this overall for all systems that Microsoft has to have to interact with on Android, and that separation kind of takes it out of our world and into the bigger Microsoft world.

Dave Michels: 5:31

So so they announced it at Enterprise, connect 2023. So that was March 2023 they announced it again at Enterprise. Connect 2024 we're announcing and Mdep and and they say it's coming soon you saw bits of it at Infocom. In what month was that that was June, June. And you saw, and you saw a couple of products that weren't shipping yet. But you saw a couple of products that were running or or will be running mdep, or whatever.

David Danto: 6:01

Well, they were they, we. I have a selfie of myself. A job or video bar that's running in depth. It's it's real. It exists.

Dave Michels: 6:10

And in fact, it was that effectively your infocom coverage that that got us. Ilya Ilya got responded to one of our one of our things on social. We ended up having a great conversation with Ilya from Microsoft record a link into into this on that. But he answered all of our questions. I thought he did a great job of explaining, and actually I felt much more positive about Mdep after. After the Ilia touch on on that conversation, and so and so but even Ilia was like, you know, hey, it's it's done. It's shipping. It should be shipping any day now, and it's still not shipping. And so and so we've been digging into that. And so we've got a couple of theories. I think I think I think it boils down to probably 2 groups of theories about. Why, Mdw. Isn't shipping yet, and and then we'll get into speculation about what it will ship. But so the 1st theory that, I think we have that we're hearing from folks. This is a little bit of pushback just a little, just little bit of push back from some of the partners. Because if you think about it, if you were a partner, let's say, I think the 1st Android video bar was you were there Poly.

David Danto: 7:28

We're both at the same time, right?

Dave Michels: 7:30

Yeah. Well, well, okay, yep, yep. They introduced it at the zoomtopia, but the 1st one I saw was the poly one and and they introduced that at zoom at Zoomtopia in that must have been I don't remember what year that was but but but the point that I'm trying to get to is that the obviously a company that understood Android and was able to put this all together and put it onto a video bar would be like the this should be low hanging fruit. So obviously, these should be the very 1st vendors that are going to be launching Md. Up compatible video bars. But if we look at what Microsoft is announcing as launch partners there, there are Mtr. Partners that don't have an android story right now.

David Danto: 8:19

You pointed that out, you pointed out that the people who are eager to stand with this Mdep platform are the ones that haven't made that investment into really getting their android systems operating and running. So you have a you have Yealink, and and you have Jobra, who didn't have as rich an android operating system as say, neat or HP. Poly do. And and they're saying, Oh, sure, absolutely. We don't have to develop ourselves. We'll take yours. And and that's where some of the pushback is, because, as Ilya very astutely described it on on the webcast that we did with him. the the differentiators are competitive in nature against these companies. So it's not like these, these older players. These older partners wouldn't be able to use Mdep, but they might be giving up some of their edge if they did.

Dave Michels: 9:08

Yeah. So so when poly and followed by neat and and followed by Logi, you know, for them to come out with these these products. They spent a lot of money. They spent a lot of money hiring android people figuring out the android operating system. These aren't at these aren't operating system companies and and getting it from getting going, going through the whole learning curve with Google and understanding Android getting it the right hardware testing all this stuff out, and they believe that that R&D was a competitive advantage that they had. And then, all of a sudden, companies like a link, and Jobra, who did did not make that investment, are all of a sudden launch partners for for rammed up, and so little bit of push back from from some of these partners, and and you've and you've talked to a number of partners. We don't, wanna you know, don't wanna share too much. But but you that's pretty accurate, definite. Some push back, some definite.

David Danto: 10:02

I I wouldn't say that that's contributing to the initial delay in as much as it's contributing to the headwinds that you know the the Microsoft has, you know, again, being completely fair and very appreciative of the the conversations we've had. They've not been very specific about when this is going to be a requirement. And and what will that look like when.

Dave Michels: 10:24

Well, okay, now, they haven't said anything about requirement, right? So they they they. We asked Julia about this, and he was very careful with his wording. But but but to be fair, this was my Microsoft's trying to solve a legitimate problem. I mean, Microsoft's got these they called Mtr Microsoft teams rooms. and it's a Microsoft branded experience. You put it. This is where your meeting your meeting should happen. You go into a Microsoft teams room and and Microsoft owns and controls that experience, and and it was designed and built around a windows framework. So Microsoft own the operating system. They own the client. They own pretty much the entire software in that experience, and they were able to secure it, and people felt pretty good about it. In comes Android and and 3rd party, Android and Android. 3rd parties are, you know, there's nobody knows what that means is that a current release older release? Has it got bug fixes. Has it got management any vulnerabilities? 0 day vulnerabilities whatever. And so Microsoft doesn't have any control over that. So Microsoft's vision and and objective here is pretty legitimate for it to be a Microsoft teams room that they want to manage and control and certify as safe. Then that means that they need to control that android piece or outlaw and just use windows. So I think the better choice is to control it. And so and so

David Danto: 11:49

It's not just security, though. It's also the idea that they've had a problem where where the android version of of teams has always trailed behind the windows version, and they're developing for all these different flavors of Android. And they're struggling with that. So what they really want to do is create one golden version of Android, and they can. They can focus their development on that one version as opposed to all these other things that are out in the wild.

Dave Michels: 12:16

So the easy answer for Microsoft really would be. We have to give them credit for this, because the easy answer really would be, screw it. No, android use windows. That's what it's all about. That's the way the the teams rooms going to work. But the but that's not a great answer, either because windows is overkill and more complicated for what these rooms need.

David Danto: 12:37

And I.

Dave Michels: 12:38

We're still.

David Danto: 12:39

I used to talk about how you know the it's the less filling taste. Great version of video conferencing people will swear by Pcs. Or whatever you know, windows operates in the rooms, and they'll swear by what they refer to as appliances, and I know Microsoft calls their their Mtr. Pcs appliances now as well. But forget that, for now you you have these 2 camps, and there's there's never a conversion. There's never a crossover, and and and Ilia even told us that you've got a lot of people now using Mtr. On Android and they prefer to do it that way. So it's it's about 50 50.

Dave Michels: 13:14

Yeah. But but again, I think they deserve some credit here, because the easy answer would be to say, No, it's gonna be windows. Only that's the way it's gonna be. But realistically. And I'm sure that you know, the partners have echoed this. And you just said it's become very popular realistically android works better. It's a lighter weight. Operating system uses cheaper hardware. It's more efficient. It it does a lot of things better. It's fit for purposes, I guess the right thing. And so so Microsoft is going the harder route and saying, Okay, we'll go ahead and support Android, and that'll lower the cost, and that'll that'll that'll be good for a number of reasons. But we've got to somehow control that, and that's what end up is is all about so so so I think I think the number one reason why we don't have a lot of products out there is is, as I said a little bit of pushback from the partners you use that you use that term about a requirement. So Microsoft hasn't actually said if they're gonna discontinue at some point or not renew, would be more appropriate, might be more accurate older android based. Mtr. Solutions at some point. I think the vision is that it would all go to Mdep. But there's no.

David Danto: 14:26

There's still. We had this conversation with Ilya and and and experts in the Microsoft space still disagree about what the conversation meant. The the way Ilia made it, explained it to us extremely clearly is every certification on Mtr. Expires, and you always at some point have to go in for recertification when the platform expires, and I interpreted that very clearly that you know the next one you'd have to go to when Mdep is out there would be an Mdep one, you know, Tom above not you great analyst, good guy that follows the Microsoft space. He interprets that completely differently. He interprets that anybody who's been certified up to date is essentially going to be exempt from Mdep, no matter what they do. Going forward.

Dave Michels: 15:10

Lovely.

David Danto: 15:11

Know what the answer is.

Dave Michels: 15:12

Yeah, so. And and the reason why, you know we don't know is because my, because Mdep is still an unknown. You know, it's hard to make legislation around something that doesn't exist yet. Right? And so so step one is to actually release it. Now, Ilya says, Mdep is released and done and ready to go, and he's technically right. But apparently, apparently, you know. people want solutions that can be managed. And the way Microsoft has designed the management piece of this is to use intune, of course, and Intune and Mdep are not there yet. In fact, I think it's just going into the tap program now. So that's why I'm saying it's gonna be next year by the time it gets through tap and becomes Ga, it's not going to be this year. And so.

David Danto: 15:55

It's it's a definite chicken and egg situation, you know. Jobra, who has their their video bar ready to ship with Mdep on it, can't ship it to customers if it can't be managed in intune, you know, on their new aosp version of that. And Microsoft had said, you must switch over to the new version by July. Oh, did we say July or I will postpone it for a little bit. So so until people are on the new platform. There's no point shipping a product that couldn't be used, and that's kind of the chicken and egg situation.

Dave Michels: 16:23

But but but here's the chicken and egg, and they and chicken and egg, because because as soon because now. because Google just announced a new version of Android. And so by the time next year comes around and and tap is like, Okay, we got this thing figured out. We got into figured out. It's like, Well, wait a minute. This is the wrong version of Android. We have to upgrade it to the new version of Android. So hold everything. We gotta wait for the new chicken and egg, and so.

David Danto: 16:47

The to the people that are watching this. And I'm not calling out anybody for embarrassment because it's not an embarrassing thing. It's the reality. You and I were having a conversation with with a senior person at one of the companies that are making these bars, and and we asked point blank. What version of Android are you on today? And he didn't know? And and who can remember? Am I on 10? Am I on.

Dave Michels: 17:09

Yeah.

David Danto: 17:10

Am I on 9? And you know everybody's going crazy at this point because it's such a moving target.

Dave Michels: 17:16

Because all the new features that Google just announced the new version of Android don't have anything to do with Mtrs. And so it's like, you know, do we? Do we stop? Do we stop everything and wait to get the new version? It's like, well, doesn't have any features. Don't mean.

David Danto: 17:28

Trying to play a game of darts from one yacht to another in the middle of the water, with both ships moving. It's like we're never going to, you know, expecting a bull's eye soon is.

Dave Michels: 17:38

Yeah.

David Danto: 17:39

Be a good plan.

Dave Michels: 17:40

Yeah, I I like your metaphor, except for maybe from one hot air balloon to the other. But darts and balloons just don't go to get but anyway, and so so that's 1 reason is that, it's a little bit of push back from from the the partners. The second reason why things keep on you know why end up is so elusive. Is. And we touched on this barely is that it's bigger than Mtr. And so I I do believe that I I don't. I don't know. I don't know when it happened I don't know how, but it's pretty dumb. But in hindsight it's pretty freaking obvious that that maybe if Microsoft's gonna go to all this trouble to create an operating system which is based on Android that their own version that they can manage, and all that stuff. Maybe it has more uses. Then then, Mtr, and if that's the case, and then the requirements for Mdep become a little more robust that you have to have a whole bunch of. You got all these user requirements and all these all these product requirements, and it was easy. It was just Mtr. It was just one list of a hundred requirements. But but but if you start thinking broadly, and how many places Android is used to the barco example. It's just that's still a meeting room. But it's not a video meeting room unnecessarily.

David Danto: 18:58

And you had a great article that you put out a blog on on our website, and I'll make sure I put a link in for that as well. Where you know you were talking about, you know. Maybe this is their foray to get back into mobile phones, and maybe.

Dave Michels: 19:09

Hi.

David Danto: 19:10

Gonna be something that grows into a lot of things for them.

Dave Michels: 19:13

If if Satya does that, and I think he will, then I'm the one I'm that came up with it. I there's no question that no one has thought of that before me. But but the the idea there is that, you know. One thing Android is actually pretty good at is working on cell phones, smartphones. And so if what if Microsoft made their own version of Android? They've made a few android phones already. They haven't really been very successful. But the thing about it. the problem with the Microsoft Android phone is the very 1st thing you do when you get an android phone for Google, is that you put in your Google Google credentials? Why would Microsoft want to tell its customer base to go get a Google credential? Especially they don't, even if they don't have one already. But what if they took the Mdep version of Android? Their own version of Android made that ready for smartphones. They wouldn't have access to the Google play store, so they would have to create their own store, which I'm sure Microsoft would be very happy to do, and I just came up with it. I I suggest they called the work store. So you got the play store for Google consumer toys. games, etc, and you've got the work store for Microsoft Enterprise customers where have all your productivity apps? And so so I think there's a great strategy there for Microsoft to launch this as a smartphone. And they've already they they and they do great with stuff with the hardware partners. I would say arguably, better than Google does with hardware partners. And so so you've already got, you know, Motorola, which Google bought and sold is now part of Lenovo. And in fact, my all time favorite android phone. I'm A, I'm an android phone guy, my all time at favorite android phone was the motorola Android phone. I forget. I forget what was called it had the wood back on the wood backing. I I still have it somewhere. I love that phone and so So I could definitely see Microsoft and Lenovo and and some other companies reigniting that android space. And I, I basically compared that strategy to what they did with edge. They basically took the open source, part of chromium of chrome, which is chromium, and they made it an edge that solve the browser wars and everything but edge is a viable browser that is not chrome, and it doesn't have a lot of the stuff that Chrome has. It has Microsoft stuff instead. So I think that's 1 1 strategy.

David Danto: 21:30

And as we've been as we've been discussing this and and figuring it out and trying to learn about it in the middle of all of that Microsoft eliminated their teams display app, which you know, that was something that they were considering to be the stand alone, always persistent, always on device. Now, all of a sudden, there's this gap. Where would you find a lightweight operating system that could always be on if we ever wanted to do that again for teams. Aha! There we go! There's Mdep again. So you know, we're speculating here, but it it would could kind of fall into place.

Dave Michels: 21:59

It could, for all the same reasons they wanted in the meeting room. It's a lightweight operating system compared to window, I mean, everything's relative lightweight compared to windows, uses cheaper hardware runs in cars, runs in pockets. It runs it runs on Tvs. It runs all kinds of places, and so why not make it your own? So I think I think that as as the scope of what mdep could be has grown, that is also complicated and delayed. The project is my theory there. So so we've covered the top. 2 reasons, a little bit of push back, a little bit of scope. Creep And I guess I guess there's a 3rd reason I'd like to highlight which which is always obvious to to people in the in the peanut gallery. But it's hard. I think, I think, creating an operating system that is stable and reliable and secure efficient is hard. I remember when we were 1st seeing this is 5, 10 years ago, Android appear on telephone sets. I was talking to this guy that had created a telephone desk phone that was running Android and had always, you know, had a familiar, you know, look and feel to an android phone and all this stuff. And he was saying how hard it was uses. So much of android is around power management, and we don't need to do power management because we're we are a ported phone. So much of android is around cellular connections and wireless. And Wi-fi, we didn't need any of that. We're using a Wi-fi, a a Ethernet cable on the back, you know. It was like he was taking out tons and tons of stuff that's in there. But the but the point is is that this stuff is really complicated and and you gotta be. We. We already talked about intune having an upgraded path and having a management path. Do you tie it into only intune? Can you work with other 3rd parties? It's just really complicated stuff. And and honestly, Microsoft is, you know, obviously an operating system company. But not recently. That was the last time Microsoft came out with an operating system. And it's I, I think, I think windows is the newest one. Maybe Xbox is new. I don't know. But they don't have a lot of operating systems in Microsoft put it that way.

David Danto: 24:19

Not a lot of good ones, you know. Windows 11 is the is the current one, and we're we're hearing about, you know. Windows 10 going, you know, end of support in the near future, and I'm still running windows, 7 on a bunch of devices, you know. And, by the way, it's now finally past the bell curve. It's now safer. Nobody's writing viruses for it. So.

Dave Michels: 24:37

Yeah.

David Danto: 24:38

So, you know. But but you know, hey, I can remember the days of windows 95 and and vista, and all the rest of it. So you know, new operating systems don't come along all that often.

Dave Michels: 24:47

There's another complicating factor with with Mtr, specifically. is that we we normally think of operating systems like my Android phone, for example, it's a dedicated device. It runs Android, that's all it does. In Mtr. These appliances are not dedicated. Necessarily. I think most of them are, but but you you could. And it's a feature. It's a feature touted by companies like like Neat that you could reboot it from a Microsoft environment to a zoom environment, for example, or even increasingly, we're starting to see some of them support a Google meet environment, and and so if if you simply gonna reboot it and load it differently. does it? Where does Mdep fit into that? Does does Mdep get rebooted and end up? Come alive for a zoom room, or does Zoom have its own operating system, and you have to reboot, have to dual partition this thing, and have have a a neat provided operating system, or A, or a logic provided operating system, and Mdep and you and you have to choose which one boots. And I think you know, there's no answers to this stuff, because no one knows what Mdep is yet, you know, and so.

David Danto: 25:55

You heard you heard from Ilya say very specifically that Microsoft would be very pleased if Zoom and other platforms wanted to use the same operating system they were coming out with. I don't know how that, honestly, you know, we've heard whispers from some of the platform, from some of the the hardware providers about what their feelings are and what their trepidations are. And we've we've communicated some of those in fairness. I've not heard anything from the other platforms.

Dave Michels: 26:20

Yeah.

David Danto: 26:21

That's a really.

Dave Michels: 26:22

It's a really complicated problem, kind of like, zoom does not want to get into the android business, and so I can see why zoom is like, you know, we don't want to do it. But at the same time, I mean, we're seeing the same thing with smart Tvs and Roku devices and and all these, how these Tvs. if if the TV is hosting your Netflix app, the TV is reporting all your watching habits and all your doing habits, and so does Zoom want all your habits to go to Microsoft? No, they don't want that to. They don't want that to happen, and so they they don't want Microsoft in their stack at all. So, but but they can't say that either, because the stack doesn't exist. And so it's it's we're in this catch 22, until actually a product actually drops chips. But even if it ha! Even when that happens, that'll be version one. And and you know what happens after that is.

David Danto: 27:10

It's time to pick your box. It's time to pick your square. What? What are you guessing? You know. Midnight. On what day, on what year, what month, what what are you thinking? We're going to actually see this out in the wild as a Ga product.

Dave Michels: 27:22

Well, I would expect their launch partners like Yealink and Jabra and Barco. I would expect to see their products, probably in q. 1 in 2025, and I would expect to see the partners that are already doing android solutions to have limited, like one product available in Mdep. maybe toward 3rd quarter.

David Danto: 27:55

Okay. I I I don't know that. I agree with that. I think we will see one Mdep product specifically, the Jobracast 50 vbs. Before the end of this year, because I think Microsoft will enforce the move over to Aosp for their intune, and and that'll be out. I wouldn't even begin to pretend to tell you what Yealink is planning on doing so. Let's not go there. I think Barco's product will follow soon after that. I don't know that I you know, but that's a, you know, 2, 3 months off, in terms of our predictions. I don't know that I'll see the older partners putting a product out on a different platform in my lifetime. I think that they're either going to go all in or they're gonna shun it.

Dave Michels: 28:49

Well, I'm predicting. I'm predicting Q. 3, 25, and you're predicting not in your lifetime. So I hope I hope I'm wrong. I hope I hope one of us is wrong. Put it that way but the I I think so. Let's go back to that 1st one. Let's go back to the the new launch partners. the problem that I'm having with is it's just moving into tap now, and I don't know enough to be honest about how long things stay in tap. I guess it depends how many bugs they find, and if they have to change things or not but I it seems like it was just moving into tap, because once it moves into tap, it gets come out of tap. It has to go to Ga. And you think that could all happen. and and the Jabra would actually be like ready to go when that happens. And so you think that'll all happen this year is what you're saying.

David Danto: 29:39

I think that the this would not be the 1st time in our lives that an imperfect version of firmware was released into the wild for end users to do. Bug reports. I think that we can see that device, since I've already seen it booting in that mode, I think we can see that before the end of this year.

Dave Michels: 30:00

There's no question like, I said, that there's no question that the Mdep is ready, but the solution is not ready until the intune piece is ready, and the intune piece is not is what's just moving into tap. And so and so I I honestly don't know how long it takes a product to go into, tap out of tap into ga and.

David Danto: 30:17

Our, but our disagreement.

Dave Michels: 30:19

4 months. I.

David Danto: 30:20

Our disagreement is not a lot with a couple of months there, but where I was really specifically disagreeing was the idea that that logic and and poly and neat, would really would release a device on this magical Mdep operating system as opposed, and and then keep the rest of their portfolio on what they were doing. I don't see that happening. I I think it's either going to be feet 1st with an upgrade path. or or not at all.

Dave Michels: 30:48

Well. I think yeah, I can see I can see these things playing out differently. But but if I was, if I was a a vendor that had a lot invested in these. I would take one of my existing, not one of my new products. I'd take one of my existing products and load it up and see how it worked with Mdep. And I'm sure there's gonna be issues with drivers. And you know, getting all that's that's not a non trivial step. We get one product to to work, and then out of good faith for Microsoft, and to show that they're making progress is to release that one product and and that could happen by Q. 3. It'd be my guess.

David Danto: 31:34

You. Let me tell you why. I don't think that'll happen. I agree with you that they will do that in their labs. They'll they'll want to understand what's going on, but they'll certainly get copies of the of the the firmware, and they'll want to figure out how that works. One of the things that these companies have been touting really, strenuously for the last 5 years, and I think all of them. Certainly. You know my experience with Poly, but I think, believe all of them. They don't want to have different versions of firmware for different devices. They want to create family versions. This is our new release, and it's compatible with everything up and down the line. It's only one version of firmware. It does all our video devices. It does all our audio devices. Or there's an audio version and a video version. I don't see them wanting to get into the support business of saying we've got this device here, and it runs this. OS, but these other devices run that OS, not even as a we want to be nice to Microsoft move. I think they really only want to support one standard released version of firmware for their devices.

Dave Michels: 32:36

Alright. So another prediction for you you went to infocom in June. and you saw 2 jabra embargo 2 unreleased Mdep products so your next big event like that will be Barcelona info info.

David Danto: 32:56

I assume.

Dave Michels: 32:56

Integrated systems, integrated systems, Europe in this January, I think

David Danto: 33:02

February.

Dave Michels: 33:03

February 2025. How many Mdw. Products will you see in the booths.

David Danto: 33:16

The interesting thing is, when I was walking around info infocom I was picking up. I still have the card on my desk here somewhere. Right here's here's view sonics. Mtr. Device that that you know they're now making. You know the display manufacturers, garden hose, manufacturers plow manufacturers everybody is now going to be able to make an M. And sell an Mtr. Device, because the programming and software comes right off of Microsoft. and the hardware comes from the Oem Odm partner, that they do. So you just have to take what Microsoft gives you, what the manufacturer gives you. Smoosh it together, stick your label on it as if you did it and sell it. So I think you know, more and more companies are going to get into this space, and there's no reason why they wouldn't get into it based on Mdep, because then they they can hide for cover and saying, it's not us. It's Microsoft. It's we're getting this all from Microsoft. It's certified, it's perfect, it's pristine, it's beautiful, it's as great. It's as good as Microsoft. If you like. Teams and Mtrs. You'll be able to like our product because we got it right from them. You know, you're going to see a lot more me, too, products. So will any of the other bigger players have it? No, the smaller players or the players that don't have bars out right now. You could easily have a dozen by February of next year.

Dave Michels: 34:34

Well remember they have to get Microsoft approved. and they have to get they have to get Mtr. Approved. They have to get, which is one step, and they have to get Mdep approved, which is another step. You can't just download Mdep. You have to get approved. And so that's not gonna just you know, there's not gonna be 20 new products there because somebody found them at a thought they fell off a truck. That's not gonna happen.

David Danto: 34:56

Based on what I've been seeing in the industry, and I don't want to shout this too loud. That's not a very high bar. so I think there are a lot of companies that are now coming out with products that you know, I've been on record saying they either have no expertise to do video bars, or they have no business doing video bars, if you want to call it. You know how I really feel. So I think there's only going to be more, not less.

Dave Michels: 35:20

You know, I I just realized we've talked about a lot of companies in this video. But we didn't mention Cisco at all. And I just realized that's a mistake. Because Cisco's got a very different approach. The reason we didn't talk about Cisco is that they didn't invest heavily in Android, they took a very different approach with Android. They have a room OS. Which is running on Linux. and they're actually running their android appliances in an android shell on room OS. Now, in theory, I love theories. I love theories in theory. They should be able to swap out whatever android show they're running in room OS. And just swap in Mdep, and they should be done, you know, overnight, and be ready to go, and everything and the room OS. Will still work, and everything's unchanged for them. They should have an advantage. Now when we go and ask Cisco. tell us about your advantage. They not so sure they have one, and in fairness they may or may not. They haven't seen them, and so and so they they don't. There's too many unknowns, and so they don't know if it's going to just swap in and swap out.

David Danto: 36:28

They've been very specific about us that no matter what it is, it's going to require development cycles on their point on their part. But yes, we don't know how complicated the development cycles are, but, boy Mtr. Has been good for Cisco. You look at Cisco numbers since the last time we spoke. You, you see, you know, end users in in the Enterprise space thing you mean. I can have Microsoft and Cisco, and nobody else signed me up. You're getting a lot of 3rd party vendors kicked out because of that. And Cisco's showing it in their bottom line. They're doing very well in the collaboration space now.

Dave Michels: 37:02

Microsoft and Cisco coming together is probably it's it's up. It's up there, if not the greatest pivot in enterprise communications fierce competitors to companions, and and that's on both sides, I mean, I mean Cisco had a whole culture where they were, you know, Microsoft was the enemy, and everything they had. They had to change the culture with their with their employees, with their customers, with their Channel partners, and Microsoft had to do the exact same thing, and they're both benefiting from it. But what an extraordinary pivot that has been for for both companies! All right, David, I think. I think we've probably I think we said this was gonna be about a 5 10 min video. I think we went a little longer than that. But Mdev is interesting story, and then it's great that we're got so much coverage on it. So.

David Danto: 37:53

We will keep following it. You can count on us. We've got some interesting news and surprises coming up about it over the next few weeks, so definitely stay with us. We will keep you posted as soon as something comes out into the wild we'll get it.