32: How Many Unpaid Jobs Do You Have?

They say when you become an entrepreneur, you trade your 8 hour day for an 18 hour day, which, is kind of true in some ways. BUT.... what about all of the time that you allow to become a part of your workday?
 
You know? Those unpaid jobs that you keep doing out of obligation to clients and friends and family..

Well I would like to hit this problem head on today and figure out exactly how to eliminate some of those unpaid jobs that you have!

In this unfiltered episode, I will discuss:
🛑 How to recognize the jobs you are working for free
🛑 How to combat the urge to keep saying yes (and learning to say no) to both clients AND friends)
🛑 How to FINALLY get paid for those unpaid jobs
🛑 How to feel great about all of this!

Hate me or love me, I'm speaking the truth to you and it's all for your benefit. Now put those earbuds in and let's get started!

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Transcript

I have a question for you. Are you feeling overwhelmed, sometimes overworked, and maybe even allowing your clients to call the shots in your business? Or, maybe you feel so busy with your design business while working 12 hour days and even weekends, but somehow the profit just doesn't seem to hit the bank account.

Or, maybe you struggle to even find clients to keep your pipeline full of exciting projects that make you excited to get out of bed in the morning. If this sounds anything like you, my friend, I have something for you. If you're looking for a way to truly transform your business, my Design Success Academy is open.

It's open right now. I'm so, so proud to have created this safe place where you can go to learn directly from me about how to run your design business the efficient and profitable way. I know there are no magic wands in this life that we live in, but this is as close to it as they come. I'm sharing everything from start to finish of what I wish I had known about how to run my own business when I started almost All this in a learn together method, as I call it, with dozens of lessons and hundreds of downloads and templates, including my own interior design agreement for you and my handy dandy design calculator to calculate your design fees for your projects.

But I know you need more, and I got you there, too. There are also group coaching sessions. One on one sessions, and what I call the Feedback Forum, where I will personally give you feedback on anything and everything, and you bet I will. Oh, and did I mention all of this lives in a community of your peers?

Your soon to be designed besties who will be there with you to share ideas and cheer on the wins. Head to DesignSuccessAcademy. com right now to find out more. I promise you, my designer friend, this will truly change your business and your life forever. It has already done so for dozens of people in the program.

I am obsessed with helping you to become a profitable, Productive and prosperous interior design professional. Won't you join us now at DesignSuccessAcademy. com? I'll see you there. Hey y'all, you've tuned in to the Designer Within Podcast, episode number 32. I'm John McCllain and welcome to the Designer Within Podcast.

The business minded podcast created for creative entrepreneurs by a creative entrepreneur. That's me. I know firsthand the challenges but also the victories that can come with our careers and I'm here to sip and spill the tea with you. It's time to dive deep within yourself and redesign your own business and your life from the inside out.

Together, we will uncover secrets and share valuable insights. So prepare for a transformative experience, my friends, because it's time to unleash the designer within. Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the designer within. I'm happy to have you here. I sound a little scratchy today, perhaps, and if I do, it's only because I'm getting over a little cold.

We've had some cold thingies, bugs, viruses, whatever they were, running around their house, and Pete and I were a little yucky this past week, so we're better now, and it just sounds a little bit worse than what it is, but I am here, and I'm excited to bring you this episode today. So today's episode, I have to tell you, what made me think about it was, I had another episode planned, actually, and I decided to change it because This one was something that I felt strongly about doing and it reminded me the reason I'm laughing is it reminded me of back in the day when I was Living in Georgia when I where I grew up and grew up in the Southern Baptist Church and people would you know say things like oh The Lord laid this on my heart and I'm not saying that's positive or negative or whatever I'm just saying that they would stand up and say the Lord laid this on my heart.

Here's what I have to say so today This is on my heart and I am going to share it with you because I feel that somebody out there needs to hear what I am about to say to you because it has been bothering me for a while and not only from just chatting with other designers that I see at market or out in the field, but also with my students in the program of my design success Academy and just general conversations that I have with people in the industry.

So I am going to share it with you because I feel that somebody out there needs to hear what I am about to say to you because it has been bothering me for a while and not only from just chatting with other designers that I see at market or out in the field, but also with my students in the program of my design success Academy and just general conversations that I have with people in the industry.

And I know running an interior design business can be so fun and so amazing, and it's full of creative expression and, of course, what we all love, the satisfaction of transforming spaces. However, as business owners in the industry, how often do you find yourself taking on more than what was initially agreed upon?

Here's a question, really. How many unpaid jobs are silently piling up on your to do list this episode i've titled it how many unpaid jobs do you have and it might make you squirm in your seat a bit or even make you Kind of angry at me, but that's okay. That's my job as the host of this podcast is to bring up things that either, you know, you need to address, and maybe you just haven't done so yet.

Or things that you don't know that you need to address and find out about them here. Same thing that I do with students in my program. I just feel like it's part of what I meant to do. Either way, it's growth, it's learning, and all of that comes, as you know, with challenges and a certain level of uncomfortableness.

So get ready to squirm, get ready to feel uncomfortable. Get ready to maybe not like me so much after this episode because I know This is going to hit home with a lot of you listening. Okay, so that being said I have a question for you How many unpaid jobs do you have? You're probably thinking What on earth do you mean?

My job for my clients is to complete their project, make them happy, give them a beautiful home or a commercial space, whatever you're designing, while at the same time, of course, feeding that need that we have in our souls as designers to be a designer. It is a real need that we have. But how many times do you sacrifice something that you know you should not, just for the sake of the project?

How many times have you let a client ask, Oh, can you just do this one thing for me? Or, can you just take a look at this while you're here? Or, I have to see you today at my house, you have to be here today. I bet you're raising your hands on some of those if you're honest. And listen, I'm not condemning you.

I want to help you. I want to help you because I was once there too. And I still, if I'm honest, find myself struggling with it. When I want to people please or quote unquote just do it to get it done so I can move on, which is unfortunately part of it sometimes you just do things just to move on from it and say, Oh, okay, it's very innocent.

I can just do this and move on to the next thing when it's not that easy. Everything has a consequence in life. And of course, everything has a consequence in our business now in the design world, and I'm sure other industries and other worlds, too. We refer to it as a scope creep where that original scope of work list that you created for your client starts to creep upwards.

And before you know it, that small project has turned into a full blown disaster. Full service project with the same low fee that they paid for that small project, right? So they keep adding things on and you just keep saying yes to everything and Mr. Stroke comes into play and you keep saying yes But you don't charge any more and your client just thinks it's part of the package deal that they purchased.

Well, I'm frankly tired of it I am tired of it. I'm tired of seeing you all give away your skills, your intellectual property, just because you can't say no, and because you can't redirect a client to what they actually paid for. That original agreement that they signed for you with that original scope of work.

As I said, I see it all the time in my Design Success Academy program, and I see it even with my own team members. I really do. If I don't catch it, it will go on and on and on. I tend to find out sometimes after the fact, unfortunately, with my own team, because after I see all of these extra site visits that were made, or quote, we just went shopping for a day for furniture with this client, when none of that was on the original scope of work.

And again, it seems innocent at the time, but as you know, those minutes, those hours, those days add up to lost revenue and unpaid work. Unpaid jobs for you. You see, I'm all about transparency with my clients, and some say it's too much, I know. And I'm sure I have lost some potential clients because I am overly transparent.

I started on my website. I started right away from the website to the discovery call to the consultation. It is all out. Everything is out on the table. But here is what I know. It has also led to me being able to stand on the rules that I have set to run my company from start to finish of a project. It is a very solid foundation that I have set for myself and I never ever waver from that.

Of course, there are gray areas that can pop up, but I will tell you, 99 percent of the time, my systems and processes are my savior. They are my business partner. They are the solid piece of documentation that I can always, always fall back on when those gray areas Transcripts seem like they don't have an answer.

I can always find it in my systems, I can always find it in my agreements, I can always find it written down somewhere because I have addressed it in some form or fashion. And I want you to do the same. And this is why I'm calling it unpaid jobs. These are unpaid tasks, unpaid jobs, unpaid work that you are just giving away freely because someone is asking it of you.

And here are some warnings and obvious reasons not to let scope creep and these unpaid jobs pile up on your plate. First, doing it once leads to setting precedents. If you do this one time, they are going to expect you to do it more and more and more. If you just simply say, Oh yes, of course I can come over today.

When you know you had a full schedule of other things to do that day and you push that other client ahead because they are the one screaming the loudest, what are you telling that client? You're telling that client that you will always drop everything for them whenever they call. Not cool, not the way to run a business, not the way to run your schedule.

So doing it once will lead to setting precedents for doing it in the future. Next, no matter how much you think your client appreciates you for going above and beyond, they usually do not. Unless you tell them they just think that this is part of your services. I've seen this happen again, over and over and over.

If you keep saying yes every time someone asks you to do something that is not in line with what you agreed to do for what they have paid you to do, they are going to think it's just part of the services that you are obligated to give to them. And they are not going to thank you. You think that they are.

You think that they're going to be appreciative of it. But unless you tell them about it, they are just not going to know because they are going to think that they are owed that by you. So it's your job, if you decide to do that, it's your job to actually tell them, Hey, I will do this this one time.

However, just so you know, this is not in our scope of work. I don't even agree to that. I want you to charge for it. However, if you are going to do it once, I want you to let them know that this is not in the original scope of work and you are giving them a courtesy one time offer of taking care of that for them.

But do not make a habit out of it because they will expect it to be done more and more and more. It's just like when you give, I know a lot of you are scraping hours off of your invoices when you send out invoices to clients for what you are billing them. It's just that same philosophy when you are sending those out to your clients.

They don't know that you took hours off of that. They don't know that you invoice them for 50 hours when you actually work 75. They have no way of knowing that. So if you are going to give your client a discount on something, if you are going to share a lower price for whatever reason, if it's valid or not, I want you to tell them that you are lowering that.

I want you to show them what the original price was, and I want you to show them that lower price that you gave to them. There is a mentality, a psychology behind that, and it lets your client know that you are going above and beyond, and that you are giving them a better deal, but you do need to let them know about that.

Again, back to that whole transparency thing with me, I have found that when you just give everything away, and you're Expect them to appreciate it that they do not. And here is what that leads to. YOU will have resentment for doing it, which is my next point. You will have resentment for taking that task on and doing it for your client.

You will. It will affect your relationship with your client because you know that in a way you are being taken advantage of. And this will affect all of your interactions with them about the things that they did pay you for. And you're going to start begrudging seeing your client. You're going to have this chip on your shoulder because, oh, they're going to ask you for something and you're not going to want to do it because you feel like you did so much before with them when you gave away everything earlier, so why would you want to do it again?

And it's going to just come out in your limited creativity. It's going to come out in the way that you address your clients. You're not going to want to go above and beyond for them ever again. And that resentment will bubble its way to the surface, and you are not going to be able to do your best work.

I know, because I'm speaking from experience, before I change the way that I treat this matter. Well, you might say, John, I'm raising my hand. I do this. I know. I do this. I do this right now. But now what? Well, you're in luck. I have some solutions for you that have worked for me and for my students in my coaching program.

Let's call it combating the unseen workload. First, as I've talked about before, I want you to start off every project by clearly defining your scope of work. Don't be vague. Be very specific. From the beginning, establish a detailed scope of work with your clients. Clearly outline exactly what's included in your services and what falls outside of the agreed upon scope.

And regularly refer back to this document to manage those expectations. Especially if they are trying to do things that are outside of what you listed on that scope of work. And if you haven't heard me talk about it before, I am very specific on the scope of work. I label everything by space, by room, and then I am very detailed about exactly what's going to occur within each space on that scope of work.

That is what I'm going to invoice the client for. The client knows exactly what they are going to get from us. And we know exactly what our workload is going to be. If they want to add something that falls outside of that scope of work, it is simply invoice additional to what is on the scope of work, easy as that.

But that scope of work is there. It shows exactly what they agreed to do and what we plan to do. And they know that I'm going to pull that out and show them if they want to add something on, it is going to be invoice. separately. Next, document everything, document, document, document. Even if you charge flat fees for your projects.

Document everything. Keep a running list. I don't care what software you use for this. There are so many out there. Mydoma, Houzz Pro, everybody has some sort of time tracking device. Harvest is another one if you don't have either one of those programs. But you have to document everything that you do.

Again, it sounds innocent enough to think, Oh, I'm going to run and pick up this pillow insert for my client. How much time is it taking you to do that? Oh, it sounds innocent enough to say, I'm going to stop by and check on this tile install that wasn't on my project fulfillment schedule. But how much time did it take you to do that?

This is where those five minutes, those 10 minutes, those 30 minutes and those 45 minutes will start to eat into your profit margin and you will begin to lose money. How do I know? Because I have seen it happen in my own company and if I did not stop it, this would get out of control within my own company.

And I'm warning you now, if you are doing this, you must put a stop to it now and you must start documenting everything. I know it's a pain in the butt. I know it's a lot of work and I know you probably don't want to do it and you think, Oh, if I'm charging a flat fee, why do I need to worry about it?

Because at the end of your project, you need to go back and review that project in detail and find out where you were profitable and where you lost money. And I will tell you, if you go back and look at it, most of the time, when you go back and look at a project at the end, you're going to find that you will lose money nine times out of 10 for those times when you allowed scope creep to take over and you allowed your client to add on things that weren't part of the original scope of work.

And, you know, I'm not blaming the client. I'm blaming you, blaming us. I'm blaming us for doing it. The client innocently asked for it. It's up to us to run our business. We don't always have to be a yes person. We have a right to say no, and we have a right to show our clients why we are saying no. So if a client asks it, you can say no, and you should say no, if it does fall outside of what you both agreed upon.

And don't be afraid to do that. It is just you running a business. It is just you running a profitable business. You're not running a non profit, which Sadly, I think a lot of nonprofits make more profit than some of us do as designers sometimes because they have a handle on how they are running their companies.

And I want you to put your foot down and really stand for the time that you're giving to your clients and do not allow that time to go astray. Next, educate your clients on additional costs. When your client requests these extra services, be transparent about the additional time. The effort and resources involved clearly communicate any extra costs that will be associated with expanding the scope of work of the project.

So be very honest to them to say, I can choose that extra sofa for you, or I can redesign that wainscoting, but it's probably going to take me three hours of CAD work to do that at 275 an hour equals whatever that total is. Does that sound good for you? I would love to do it. I think it's a great idea and I would love to be a part of that, but just wanted you to know this would be the cost for that.

Just do it from the beginning. Do it from the initial conversation. Don't wait until it starts to get into that creative phase. Do it right away. Before any work is done, this is something that I'm really, really adamant about with our industry is that we do a lot of work before, for some reason, by the way, I don't know why we tend to want to do a lot of work before we get a project or before a client signs a deal or before we get some sort of agreement to be paid for something.

And I don't agree with that. I don't ever want you to do work that a client has not agreed to pay you for, and preferably the client has already paid you for it. So if a client does say, okay, yes, I agree to this scope of work increase, then what you're going to do is invoice them for that. And then they'll pay for that.

And then you will start the work. Isn't that easy? Everything is done on the upfront and you can move on and you have no resentment and no begrudgement against that client. Next, implement a change order process. Do you have a change order process in your company? Do you have a way of introducing a change order process?

I want you to introduce a change order process that really formalizes any adjustments to that original scope. This ensures that both you and your client are on the same page regarding the changes and any extra costs involved with it. This can be as simple as that one form. It can be a proposal if you use MyDOMA or Houzz Pro.

You can just create a proposal inside of there, call it a change order. You can just simply type it up on a Word document. I don't care how you do that, but you need to create a change order. For me, actually, the way I have it worded in my agreement is It's very simple. I don't have to do a new agreement.

I just simply say any work outside the agreed upon scope of work will be invoiced at 2. 75 per hour and that is very clear in my agreement so that they can understand exactly how that's going to work. Now, I do create a new scope of work for these new tasks that they want me to do, but I don't have to create an entirely new agreement unless, by the way, it's an entirely new project somewhere off the site of where we were.

Of course, I'll make a new agreement. But if it's the same house just adding on something new, I will invoice them at the rate that's in my agreement, and then I will create a new scope of work that works off of that, charge them the estimated number of hours ahead of time, and then we will move on with the project.

Easy peasy. No questions asked and we can go forward. Set boundaries. Boundaries. What's a boundary? Oh, wow. Right. I'm joking, but not really recognize the importance of setting boundaries in both your professional and by the way, your personal life, because as we know, your professional life is intertwined with your personal life.

When you give time to your business, you're probably taking time away from. something in your personal life and we're going to talk about that in a moment, but I want you to learn to say no when necessary and don't be afraid to assert the value of your time and your expertise. Let me say that again. Do not be afraid to assert the value of your time and your expertise.

Your time and your experience has a price tag attached to it. Stop giving it away. Stop giving away your time for these un experts. paid jobs. I start right away with my how we work document. You guys know I've talked about this before and my how we work document talks about exactly what we're going to provide for the client before the scope of work, but it tells exactly how we operate our company, how the expectations are set ahead of time.

And I like to set that tone even before we start to work on any sort of project related tasks with the client. Next, I want to mention time management implement. efficient time management strategies to ensure that you're maximizing your productivity without compromising your well being. When you prioritize your tasks, you can delegate your tasks as well when possible and avoid taking on more than you can realistically handle.

If you're a one person show, time management is a specialty. Especially important for you solopreneurs out there because there are only so many hours in the day So when you keep saying yes to unpaid work to unpaid jobs Think about these potential clients who are coming on or ready to write a check to you that you're going to have to say No to because you are prioritizing an unpaid job over a paid job That is waiting in the wings and I know what you're saying.

You're telling that new client Oh, I can have you come on board and You know, six weeks or eight weeks or even worse. You bring them on board and you give them a horrible experience of onboarding them because you're so busy over extending yourself for the other clients out there. But I want you to think about your schedule and your time management and think about what you can delegate.

If someone wants to increase their scope of work, if you can do that and charge them for that, perhaps you can delegate that to someone else and you can keep working on what you need to work on. And lastly, I want you to regularly evaluate your workload, periodically review your current workload, and ask yourself whether you're taking on too much unpaid work.

Look at your schedule, look at your daily sheets, look at your weekly sheets, look at your monthly sheets, look at this review of projects that you do at the end, and ask yourself what you have done that you have not charged that client for. Again, I like to take note of emails, phone calls of all the things that we do for a client because those do add up very, very quickly.

When you do this self reflection, it can help you identify these patterns and make informed decisions about when to say no in the future. So if you see a pattern happening of, oh my gosh, I always say yes when a client says come by and check this out, or will you go and do this or. Maybe can you call and check on the delivery status of something that you didn't even order?

So maybe the client was ordering something and they want you to check on the delivery status of that. That's not your job. That's not in the scope of work. You're not getting paid for that. Again, it does seem innocent enough. But if you did 10 of those a day, think how much time that is going to suck out of your day.

Look at patterns of things that you're doing that don't seem like a big deal now, but will be a big deal later when they cut into your profit margin and your overall revenue. Okay, I think I've hammered that home enough. I'm going to switch topics just a bit, but not entirely, because I know this podcast is about the designer within.

But, I also know we are human beings, and we have spouses, moms, dads, brothers and sisters, friends, cousins, and neighbors. You get the picture, and I'm here to tell you, we can also fall prey to this group's innocent asks of, Can you do just this one thing? Can you pick this up for me? And I know, again, we all cherish these bonds we have with our friends and family and we find joy in helping them out, lending them a helping hand whenever they reach out.

But there comes a point when the line between personal generosity and being overwhelmed with these unpaid requests and unseen workload can blur. It becomes this unseen burden, honestly, that you feel, but you just can't put your finger on. It's not uncommon to find ourselves constantly accommodating the needs and requests of our friends and family, and while the attention is rooted, I know, in love and support, it can sometimes lead to an unseen burden of unpaid favors.

Now listen, I'm not saying to not love your friends and family and to not take care of them in your own way. We all want to do and we all want it reciprocated to us as well in various ways. But, what I am saying is that you need to recognize when you are possibly being taken advantage of. And, if there is scope creep, in your personal relationships too, right?

Does that drive it home a bit more, to think about scope creep in your personal relationships? Are your friends and family increasing the scope of work that you feel you had agreed to early on, right? I know it sounds strange, but think about it. Or do they even know what you are willing to do and not do because you have always dropped everything to do what they need?

I know, this is hitting some nerves with some of you and you're getting defensive saying, John, I will always do what my friends and family need. That's what friends are for. I mean, they even wrote a song about it, for God's sake. Sure, I know, but how much is too much? How much of these requests do you make while gritting your teeth because you removed something else from your calendar to make time and space for someone who has asked to fill it?

And lastly, on the reasons of why you have to guard this time like the security guy outside of the Gucci store. The time you give away freely to those who constantly ask for it also takes time away from your work and from those who are paying you. Think about that for a minute. How many late nights have you stayed up preparing a presentation because of a personal matter that you allowed to take?

Precedence. Again, I know there are personal matters that do matter and that you have to take care of and there are family and friends that do fall into that category with legitimate reasons that you need to be there for them. I'm not talking about those. I'm talking about those who you know deep down in your gut are asking you to do something that falls outside of your comfort zone of the reason that you would do it in the first place, which is Love and respect.

You ask yourself, are you doing it for that reason? Or, are you saying yes out of obligation of fear of rejection from that person? Deep stuff, I know, take a breath, this is a lot. But I need you to think about how you spend your time very introspectively. And if adding a price tag to it, if adding an hourly rate to your time allows you to better determine how much your time is worth, then do it.

How much time is running that errand for someone else paying you? 0. 0 probably. Yes, I can tell you. And how much would that same amount of time pay you in your business? I know that's drastic comparisons, but I want you to really think about the value of your time, because time is the one thing that we are not getting more of.

It is something that is not being reproduced. Here are some things I want you to ask yourself. Do you feel obligated to say yes? The pressure to say yes to every request can stem from that sense of obligation that I talked about, or maybe it's a desire to maintain your relationship. However, constantly taking on all of these additional responsibilities can truly impact your personal time and well being.

You're taking time away from not only things that pay you for your job, for your work, but you're probably taking time away from things that you need to do for yourself. That self care that we've all heard so much about in the past few years. How much self care are you giving yourself and how much are you giving to other people?

Understanding the importance of your self care and prioritizing your well being is so, so important. Balancing your personal and professional commitments requires you taking care of yourself. So don't hesitate to allocate time for relaxation and personal activities. And if you're giving all that time away, you're not going to be able to even have the time to give yourself self care.

And ways to fix this is just by fostering open and honest communication with those you love. Express your boundaries very clearly, and especially limitations, helping them to understand when you're available to help them, and when you may need to prioritize your other commitments. Just like our design clients, it's also important to set clear expectations.

Establishing clear expectations regarding the nature of your support, whether it is a one time favor, or an ongoing commitment, ensuring everyone is on that same page that we talked about, can prevent misunderstandings and help manage expectations. Managing expectations, I think, is the key to any relationship, whether business or personal.

Learn to say no is my next point. Recognize the importance of saying no when necessary, just like with your clients. And I know it may feel challenging in the beginning, but setting these healthy boundaries is crucial for maintaining a balanced and fulfilling life. You can politely decline requests and that doesn't diminish your love and your support for your friends and family.

You can do things in a very nice way. And as you've heard me say before, clear is kind. And I want you to remember, when you can't do something for someone, offer them an alternative solution or suggest other ways that they may get help. This will show your willingness to help them while also managing your own commitment.

So think about something that could help them. Maybe if they ask you to pick up something from the pharmacy, you can say, Oh, Yes, I could do that, but I'm so busy with this other thing today. I can't do it. My schedule's packed. However, they offer delivery from that pharmacy and you can have that delivered right to your house.

So something as simple as that could really help them out and also take the weight off of you. Evaluate your availability. Sit down and assess your availability and commitments before agreeing to new requests. If someone keeps asking you something, look at what time you actually have available. Maybe you want to set certain times of the week or day where you can do things for certain people.

But having those times set ahead of time will help you. This self reflection also allows you to make informed decisions about whether you can genuinely accommodate additional responsibilities. Being a supportive friend or family member is undoubtedly a beautiful aspect of all of our lives, I know this.

However, please know, it is equally important to strike a balance that preserves your well being. Through open communication, setting clear expectations, and learning to say no when necessary. You can navigate this very delicate dance of helping others while maintaining your life. Remember, your ability to offer support stems from a place of strength.

And ensuring your own well being allows you to be a more effective and positive presence for those that you care about. So there you have it, my friends. I know this was a different episode than normal, and I know that I probably scratched the surface of what some of us are going through when we do allow other people to sort of take control of our schedules and take control of our days.

But I felt it important because I've seen again this pop up so much recently in people's personal lives and people's and I want you to ask yourself, how many unpaid jobs? Are you currently doing and how many of those unpaid jobs can you either remove from your list or get paid for in relation to your business?

And I think when you really start to document what you're doing is going to be eye opening for you and you're going to be able to see exactly how much revenue. How much time you're losing when you really take the time to make the adjustments in your business and your life. You're going to be a better person to those around you and you're going to be a better business person and a better designer to your clients.

And that is it. I will see you on the next episode of The Designer Within. Keep designing a beautiful business and a beautiful life. See you next time. Thanks for sticking with me to the end of The Designer Within podcast. It means the world to me. If you're ready to dive deeper into the topics that we've discussed here, be sure to check out my online coaching and courses program, DesignSuccessAcademy.

com. Here I will teach you everything you need to know to run your interior design business from starting the project, All the way to the end, including marketing and pricing your services for profit. And for more information on this podcast, including how to be a guest or my design services in general, go to johnmcclain.

co. That's johnmcclain. co. See you soon, friend.