41: Vendors & Trades: Insider Secrets Every Designer Needs To Know

Let's talk about finding specific ways to find success with our trades and vendors!
Welcome to the episode my lead designer, Heather Rau. In this episode, Heather and I discuss the backbone of a design project that involves any sort of labor and materials: your trades and vendors.

The delicate dance of finding both trades/vendors that align with your values, meet your company and client needs, and also represent you and your brand can sometimes be difficult.

This episode has detailed, actionable ways to:
* Find your own company values in order to know who you should be working with
* Specific ways to find trades and vendors when you have none
* How to retain quality vendors and trades persons
* How to "give back" to vendors and trades
* What good trades and vendors can do for you

This episode will help you grow your relationship with your trades and vendors no matter if you are new to the design industry or a veteran designer. It's a must listen for sure.

Enjoy!

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Transcript

This whole instant gratification society that we're in sometimes now, it annoys me. I'm very old school. I want deeper relationships. These are the ones that turn into other great things. For instance, let's say that a trade or a vendor has someone asked about the need of an interior designer, If you are working with this vendor and trade and you have a deep relationship with them and there's a trust there, don't you want to be top of mind as the referral, as the person that this trader vendor can say, yes, call this company because they are so good.

Not only do they do great designs, but they treat their people well. And I love working with them. They're professional. They're on time. They're respectful. They have fair pay, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So it goes deeper than just getting the task done. It goes much, much farther than that. And by having these long term business relationships in every capacity of everything that we touch and do as a business owner, it strengthens our bonds with everyone that we work with, including our client.

Hey y'all, you're listening to the designer within podcast  episode number 41. I'm John McClain and welcome to the designer within podcast. The business minded podcast created for creative entrepreneurs by a creative entrepreneur. That's me. I know firsthand the challenges, but also the victories that can come with our careers.

And I'm here to sip and spill the tea with you. It's time to dive deep within yourself and redesign your own business and your life from the inside out. Together, we will uncover secrets and share valuable insights. So prepare for a transition. It's formative experience, my friend, because it's time to unleash the designer within.

Hello everybody! How are you doing today? I hope you're having a wonderful springtime. Is it blooming where you are? It is so pretty where I am. The trees are blooming, the flowers are blooming, the birds sure are happy too. I try to spend some time outside every morning. And those birds are just chirping away.

They are so happy with the springtime weather and they are just chirping away every morning. I have a little bird bath in my front yard, a little, uh, container that I put out there, a little beautiful fountain that I have, and I keep it filled. And those birds love to come down and just take a bath in that thing and get water.

And I love watching them out there chirping away. So anyway, just wanted to see where things are with you in your part of the world and to see if. has definitely sprung for you as well. And if you are listening in a real time high point market for spring, 2024 is coming right up and I will be there. I hope to see you there too.

I will be on lots of panels and I hope to see you at some of them. First of all, let me mention the one that always sells out. And by the way, selling out is not meaning that it costs money. It is free, but it is that universal furniture and learning center. The fabulous learning center that Universal Furniture has.

And that is April 13th at 4 p. m. And it is my presentation that I do every single market for Universal Furniture. I do a different presentation every time, but every market I am at Universal Furniture. I love their learning center. It is so good. It is so comfy. And I love presenting there because it is just the perfect setup for this, but I'm doing a presentation there called, do you want fries with that?

And what this presentation is about. is how you can learn how to upsell every client for more profit. I'm going to show you some techniques that you probably have never thought of to add on to what you were already doing to upsell your clients very, very easily to the services that you already provide and to make some extra profit on your current project.

So do not miss that. That is Saturday, April 13th at 4 p. m. You do need to RSVP because as I said, once it is booked up, It is very hard to get into the room because they only have limited number of seats. You can go to my Instagram and in the bio there is a link where you can click and find all of the places where I will be at High Point and register there as well.

Sunday is the busy busy day for me. April 14th on Sunday at 10 a. m I'm at Hooker Furniture and we are going to talk about transformative technology that's at 10 a. m. Also on Sunday at 11 30 a. m. I am at Fairfield Chair. We are talking about driving success in interior design procurement. I'm the moderator on that panel.

It is a fun, fun panel talking about all things procurement. And then right after that panel I'm heading down to the Antiques and Design Center. This is so fabulous. We are talking about antiques. Yes, of course. We're talking about a colorful past and how you can bring antiques into your design projects and how to do so.

And right After that, they are hosting me for a book signing for my book, The Designer Within. And I have also decided to have a first time meet and greet meetup for everybody who listens to the podcast. So if you are a regular listener or a first time listener or any listener of The Designer Within podcast, come on out at 2 p.

m. on Sunday, April 14th and meet me and all of the other listeners of the podcast at 2 p. m. At the Antiques and Design Center at the Suites at Market Square. And we can drink some champagne and chit chat with one another and share some trade secrets. I would love to see you there. It is at the Antiques and Design Center at Market Square at 2pm on Sunday, April 14th.

You do not of course have to participate in the book signing. I just wanted to join these two things together since of course the podcast and the book both have the same name. And I will be there and I would love to see you there too. So come on out for the book signing and come on out and celebrate the podcast as well.

So Sunday, April 14th at 2 p. m. at the Antiques and Design Center at 316 West Commerce Avenue. That's in the Suites at Market Square. So please, please, please come out and support. There will be champagne flowing freely. And then last but not least, also on Sunday at 4 30 p. m. at Calco Lighting. I will be on a panel there.

And we will be talking about exploring the color psychology of lighting design. So lots and lots of things happening at High Point Market. Please join me at some or all of these panels and especially the book signing and the podcast meetup. I would love to see you there. And you can, again, find out more about all of these and register for them as well, just by going to the link.

in my Instagram. Click on the link in the bio and you can find all of the places that I will be at High Point Market or just go to my website johnmcclain. co and you can find the links there as well. But I hope to see you at High Point Market very soon. Today's episode we are going to talk about vendors and trades people and how we partner with those people and those valued relationships and how important those relationships are.

And I know a lot of you are already partnering with vendors and tradespeople, and I just wanted to do a little bit of a recap about that, and my tips for working with tradespeople, and how we can actually help in developing better partnerships with those people. Today, I have a guest with me, Heather Rao.

Heather is my senior designer and designs and manages projects mainly in Florida, but also in our Los Angeles area as needed. She has been a valued member of my team for almost eight years now. So Heather, I want to welcome you to the podcast. Thank you, John. I'm so happy you're here. You are going to be able to probably validate what I'm saying and also add a lot to what I'm saying.

saying, and the topic today, as I said, is all about who we partner with in our businesses and all that goes into that. So I thought it important to mention that before we start to partner with people and before we dive into the questions that I have for you, Heather, I wanted to tell everybody that.

Before you actually start to work with people, you really need to know who you are as a company. So I just wanted to throw out some quick tips out there for everyone of what I see and where I see you should start before you start bringing on people to work with. So you really need to find your company values, your personal values, because everything you do within your company really comes down to your company values.

And as I said, by the way, these are actually your personal values.  with that. So ask the deeper questions when you are considering working with someone or another company, get to know them, ask the things that you really want to know. How long have they been in business? How do they handle customer service?

Who are you going to speak with when you have an issue? What does this company or this person, if it's a trade person, what do they value in their own business? And does this company have a mission statement? A lot of companies do have mission statements. And if you simply list out all of the values that you have as a company and as an individual, this will make this process so much easier.

So I just wanted to put that out there before we start and dive into that. And just let you know, the importance of knowing your values before you start to work with other people. So as we jump into this, Heather, I wanted to talk about the importance of having great trades, people or delivery and receiving companies and vendors that we partner with.

We have seen an evolution of that in our company. I wanted to say that. Your design firm reputation with clients and builders and other trades people is only as good as the person who is representing you and these people who you're working with are a direct representation of you, the quality of their projects, the quality of their work, they should make your job easier.

They should make your job come in on time. But tell me Heather, your perception of the importance of. Just simply having these great relationships with these vendors in our back pockets. And what do we get out of it for having these relationships with people that we've worked with for a while? And how do they benefit the company as a whole?

And also, how do they benefit the clients that we work with? Um, it's absolutely critical for our company to curate a really talented, responsive team. Sometimes these trades and vendors and artisans, um, will be on the job sites without us. So it is very important that they are professional in their client facing interactions.

I feel like it's a value that we bring to our customer base who have already curated, vetted, and brought on a talented team. Because very often the most difficult part of a renovation or new build or design project is finding the right people to do the work. Very often there's not enough trades to go around and the trades that are available may not be up to par.

So, as designers, we've done this over Over and over again, as opposed to a homeowner who would do a renovation once we're doing them continually and in multiple facets. So we bring a value to our clients by bringing on a curated team of tradesmen and artisans that we know are talented, that we know are trustworthy, that are professional in their work.

Client interactions and above all, we'll get the job done to a high standard of excellence in a timely and affordable manner. I think that's one of the greatest values that we bring as designers. You know, it's so difficult to go into a renovation or a new build where there are so many decisions that have to be made and there's just minutiae. 

left, right, and center. It can be very, very overwhelming. So in order to have a designer or the benefit of having a designer come in and bring those talented trade artisans, valuable members of the renovation team, um, I think is critical and I think makes the process go easier for everyone involved. The GC, the clients, the vendors.

I agree totally. And I also feel that not only does it make the job easier, it makes it better. And really by bringing on people who know what they're doing, no matter what their business is, no matter where they are, if they are just, I don't mean just as in simple, just receiving furniture and inspecting it.

That's a very important part of what we do. Or a trades person who knows how to install and construct woodworking details and crown molding and all of these beautiful woodworking things that we do in homes. So if you have someone like that, not only we look great, but it just makes our job easier. Don't you think like it really, if they know what they're doing and we don't have to hold their hands, don't you think it makes what we do a bit easier because we can trust them and they actually can teach us something.

Absolutely. I, I very often when I'm on job sites, um, with clients and vendors say to my tradespeople, I really need to lean into your expertise. So if we're, if we're facing a challenge, if there's, if we can't put our can lights in exactly where we, uh, predetermined to do so, or if there's an issue with the tile or how it's finishing, I very often say, you know, this isn't my line of expertise.

What do you recommend? What solutions are possible? And I think they appreciate that I recognize that this is their area of expertise and that we're staying in our lanes as to what we do best. Yeah. And that's a respect as well. And I agree, we can give them so much. And we, we tell clients every time we start to work with them, we work with our A team, our best people, these are People that we know will do a great job in whatever capacity we're bringing them on.

And those are people that we trust and we will give them all the tools that they need, our drawings and insight samples of anything that we're going to need to show them finishes, et cetera, but it's up to them to take that and run with it. And I think that that trust is something that. It doesn't happen immediately when you're working with someone, especially if they're new, right?

Like you don't automatically know that someone who is new is going to give you the best outcome. Even if you've seen the work on their website, right? I always say no matter what a general contractor or what a builder shows on their website, or even tells you in person, It always comes down to the person who is there physically  on the job site.

Don't you agree? Hundred percent. They can make really pretty, pretty pictures and put it up on a website. But until you see the finish lines on the cabinetry, or you see that the crowt lines are consistent, that's not something you're going to gain from a photograph. You need to see it. See their work in person.

And it's always a risk bringing on a new trades person or a new receiving warehouse, um, or any of these other vendors that we, uh, communicate with routinely, but it's necessary in order to really hone our relationships and develop the best team possible. And I think as designers, you said it perfectly.

And I think as designers too, we have to let our egos go. Like there's no one is better than anyone else in this entire process. Every single person. Person, every single entity is very valuable in this entire wheel. That's turning and constantly keeping our designs in motion and keeping our clients happy.

And if one piece of that left, we know for a fact, we've seen it happen. It all falls apart. I would just recommend everybody out there, value the people that you work with, show them, and we're going to talk about that in a minute, how you retain those people, but that appreciation for what they do is just so important.

So if, if someone's listening and, and has no idea about where to even start, maybe they're new in business, or maybe they're just looking to, as you said, Heather, everybody's really busy these days. And so maybe some of their trades or vendors or subs or whatever are too busy to work on projects right now.

And they're having to find new ones. So let's talk a bit about how to find new sources. Heather, did you have any advice or information on what to look for when researching a trade or a vendor or a business? Business partner to work with? Like what do you suggest that we look for that would be quote unquote, the perfect match for working with us and any other advice on where to look for those people?

Absolutely. My favorite way to bring on new tradespeople is asking my vendors who supply. For instance, I go to my tile vendors and I say, who are the best tile installers in town? What are they like on the job site? How easy are they to get a hold of? Are they responsive? Because my tile vendors are working with the tile installers every single day.

So they know the big boys in town. They know the up and coming people. They know who has a good reputation and they know who comes back when something is wrong. So I have done that with my tile installers. I have done it with plumbers when I'm at a plumbing supply house. I've done it with For electricians, when shopping for light fixtures, I find that if you really go to the source, you know, they have all the backdoor information on your local trades people.

So that has been my absolute favorite way. Another way, it was just this morning, I was on a job site and our client was raving about about this trim person that their GC had brought in and she had hired him on to do some custom closets and she had asked him to do a couple extra projects around the house and she just couldn't stop going on and on about their quality and their kindness and their attention to detail.

So I pulled him aside and I wasn't ashamed to poach him right there on the job site. I got his name and his number and his company and, um,  that's right. So we'll. Surely be joining the team shortly. And I have a small project in home. That's going to be the test case. I'm going to bring him on and see what he can do.

And, uh, we'll go on from there. I love that. Yeah. I mean, and, and, and you say poaching, you know, we say it half jokingly, but it is true, and I, it's a fine line that you have to walk when you're, you know, You know, taking someone that's working for another person, but if the general contractor or the builder is cool with it and, and there's no issues with that, I say absolutely go for it because as Heather said, the client was not only happy with the work that was done, but also the person and basically the demeanor and the customer service that this person was providing.

And I think that's the other half of the picture, right? You can have the best work possible. But if that person's on the job site and they're grumpy and they're angry and nothing's ever, they're never happy and they're just disgruntled the whole time. That makes for a, an unsettling situation. And to me, that's the part that's, that's the other percentage of what I'm looking for from a quality trade and vendor is that they have to have the right attitude.

How do you feel about that, Heather? 100%. Don't tell me no, that can't be done. Tell me, Hmm, let's figure this out. Very good. Yeah, very good. So those are great, great places to find them. So after you found them, let's now talk about how did we keep them? How do we retain quality subs and workers and trades people and different people who just partner with our company?

So what is your perception, Heather, on keeping quality? people that you partner with and whether it be a trades person, whether it be a delivery company, how do we, how do we keep them? What do you feel is the secret or a component of keeping them once we actually find them and keeping them wanting to work with us and vice versa?

I think the two critical points to maintaining relationship with trades is responsive and appreciation. So if a trade contacts us and says, you know, I need a dimension. On this furniture piece that I'm creating for you, even if I've already sent the plans over and the dimensions on there, I get it for them right away because I know they need it that second and in return, I've had trade, you know, save my bacon by I'm on a job site.

Something's happening. There's no one there who can, who can help me with it and I call them and say, what do I do? And nine times out of 10, they give me the right advice or I've had them come out to the job site and help me immediately as well. Also appreciation with our wallpaper installer, I always say, thank you.

I send a text in the morning saying, I'm so excited to see you on the job site today. And because of that, when I'm in a crunch, when I have a deadline that's coming up, I And he books out months in advance. He'll squeeze me in just because he appreciates me as a person and I appreciate him as a person.

And whenever I see his work, I tell him how beautiful it is. And because I'm always telling him the good points and the quality of his work, then when there is an issue, he doesn't take offense. When something does need to be corrected, he knows that I, I see the good, not just the bad. You know, what my takeaway is from that is that we have to look at tradespeople as artisans, as crafts people, as people who really are honing their craft.

And we don't need to look at them as just a worker who is performing a task. We have to, you. Appreciate them for what they're bringing to the table. Because my goodness, I don't want to do what they're doing. I can't do what they're doing. And most of us can't. And simply by telling them how beautiful the work is and how much you appreciate the time that they put into that.

That's a very, very simple statement. It's a very simple gesture, but it goes a long way. A hundred percent. Everybody wants to be appreciated. Everybody wants to be seen. And there is no superior trade. A surgeon isn't. Superior to a lawyer who isn't superior to a garbage collector. Everybody has their role to play in this life.

And we, we have to respect everybody's work, everybody's contribution. And in return, they show us the respect and they, and they help us when we face trouble as well. I love it. So respect is the takeaway there. And I just want to add a few more things like on the housekeeping side of that, on the internal side.

So I also think if you simply. pay them on time. That's important, which means, of course, that the client has to pay you on time. So you have to make sure that you have the funds from the client. You never want this situation with a vendor, whether it's ordering furniture or anything, lighting or whether they're working on a job site.

You want to make sure that you pay them on time. I also think that it's really important that if you are supplying the materials to a trades person or anyone that needs materials that are the responsibility of you or someone on your team, that you have those ready for them and that they are ready to be installed or ready to be utilized for them on the job site.

When. They are ready to do the work. I think that's an obligation that we owe to them. And then basically provide them with all that they need to do their job, whether that be materials or whether that be drawings or whether that just be your input, if they need you to review something, we like to work in specific site meetings for different tasks.

So if it's tile or if it's cabinetry, we have specific. Specific site meetings that we have with the trades people, just to make sure that we're giving them all that we can give them so that their job goes a lot easier. So I guess my point is this, don't just hire them to do the job and assume that it's going to go exactly the way that you want it to go without giving them all of the resources that they need on your side of things.

things. We have an obligation to our trades and to our vendors, frankly, no matter what capacity they're working in with our company to give them everything that they need to do their job so that they can make us look good. And the client's project turns out really, really well. Moving on to partnerships.

We kind of touched on this throughout this entire conversation, but let's talk about building vendor partnerships. And I'm thinking vendors could be anyone. It could be the trades people we work with, but also vendors specifically. I want to talk about. As in our furniture and lighting and accessories and all those things that we source for projects.

And I feel like this could be the most important part of this entire interview because partnerships are really the key to the success of both us and the other party. But I think it's important to stress that the word partnership is in there and that it's not a one way street and both sides have So I want to kick it off by saying, I feel that personal introductions are wonderful for building vendor relationships.

And we do this a lot with having the vendors visit our office and at trade shows. And I know Heather, you particularly love that we can meet vendors and develop those relationships. deeper at high point market, for instance. So tell me about your experience with and your thoughts on how we are deepening those relationships by visiting the vendors and the reps directly at high point market and other markets.

And just anytime that we go to something that they are sponsoring or anything like that, how does that deepen that relationship and really build that partnership a little deeper? Absolutely. The vendor and rep relationship is absolutely critical to both sides. For us, I feel when we have that deep relationship with the representatives for a vendor, I can go to them when we are in a crunch and the ones who are most responsive are the ones that I'm going to go to.

Also, when there is an issue, let's say with a damaged piece that comes in, which happens All the time, the representatives that will respond to us and help us and guide us through the process. Those are the ones that I'm going to purchase from over and over again. We do routinely have representatives come into our office and show us their new lines or update our books.

But every year John brings the entire team, um, to High Point, which is absolutely my highlight. Of the year, the absolute political, because not only do I get to see and feel and touch and learn about all the new lines, all the products that are currently on the market. But I also get to deepen my relationship with these representatives that sometimes have very, very large regions.

So they cannot be attending every office. And so I get to put a face to a name and a voice that I've spoken to on the telephone over and over again. And it's through that. Personal interaction, that face to face interaction that I feel like it improves the level of service and assistance that our company receives.

Yeah, very well said. And I, I think that if you have no where to start, if you are a new company, or again, if you're having trouble finding vendors, I think first just find a company. Or a product that you truly love. Find a company that you love their products. You go to their website and you love what you see and then start to dig a little deeper, ask about their customer service, find out about their availability of their products.

If you like their style, find out if. You can order online if that's how you like to order or who the rep is. And if the rep is in your area and then start to use them for projects so that you can hit the minimum orders, because as we all know, there are minimums that most companies have, and if you hit those minimums, you get better pricing and then you can make more profit from that, which is why we all do this, of course.

So this will not only keep your relationship strong, but it will keep your pricing lower. And I think that the rep, Heather was speaking about reps, the rep will actually, we've seen this. If the more you buy, it's just the way it goes in life. The rep will be there more for you. And if you can exclusively use a company for a certain type of product.

So if you love a company for their sofas, because you love the style, you love how they're made, you know that their quality and you are buying all of your sofas from that company and exclusively from that company, I can guarantee you that the rep is going to give you a bit more attention because of the dollar amount that you are spending with them.

We've seen that. Haven't we, Heather? Absolutely. And I would just love to add that even for the vendors that we use, that maybe we cannot hold a large annual purchase with them. If you have that personal relationship with the representatives, we've had them go to bat for us before. So for instance, I would say, I really want this picture for my client, but it's just a little bit out of budget.

I know we don't have the deepest discount. Is there anything you can do for me? And they have. Just think asking you shall receive the worst they can say is no. So what do you feel are some important things to note when working with a rep? What can we do to, and other than that, other than just spending money, what can we do to, to strengthen that relationship?

Cause it is a two way street and I know the respect has to go both ways. Like one thing that comes to mind for me is we can refer that vendor rep to other designers, because just like. Just like I mentioned earlier with a builder or with a general contractor, only being as good as the quality of the person who's on their job site.

Same goes for a company who is manufacturing products. They're only as good, I think, as the representative who is out on the streets pounding the pavements and representing their brand. So what do you think are some ways, Heather, that we can, you know, work with a rep and strengthen that relationship, strengthen that bond?

And just dig a little deeper in that so that they do go to bat for us and that they do want to maybe even refer people to us down the road. A couple of things, but the second year I worked with you, I had to go to High Point without you because you were busy elsewhere and another designer took me under her wing and she introduced me to all of the reps.

And since we're in the same region, very often we have the same representatives for each of the vendors. So that was very helpful and something that I have now passed on to other new designers. So I think that is a tremendous value. Also, uh, very often we'll get a phone call from some of our representatives saying, I'm on the road with this new line.

I was told to make appointments so that they could meet some of the designers in town. Well, it's very easy to say, I'm so sorry, we're busy. We can't take you in this week. But, but just by saying, sure, come in. We have, we have 20 minutes on Thursday. How about that? That that's making them look good for their boss, their new vendor.

And it also shows a sign of respect that they're not just there to serve us, but it's really a relationship that we're developing. Yeah, I agree. And they, these are, these are human beings. We should treat every human being with respect. They're just doing their job. And I always say when you're selling, you're serving.

So if that person is serving you. And it doesn't even feel like they are selling. And I think other ways that we can support them in just very simple ways is, of course, as I said before, pay on time, duh. Uh, you also can support them in any events that they have. So if they are having an event, a cocktail party at a market, go and say, hi, have a drink, or if they're having a local event in your area, we always try to support them if They're with an NKVA or an ASID, and they usually have sponsors.

And we will try to go and support vendors that we want to partner with there, or that we have been partnering with. And a very simple way is just to share your projects on social media and tag them in it, or in a newsletter. If you're having a newsletter and you want to send it out and promote or a blog.

Uh, very similarly, you can show their products, tag them in it. They love that. So this is a very easy way to kind of strengthen, I think that relationship. Cause a lot of times, by the way, as a side note, some representatives have their own social media accounts in relation to their company. So you can actually tag the representative and you can actually tag the company or the manufacturer or the vendor of that as well.

And they love that. I think that that will strengthen that bond a bit too. So there's lots of ways to do that.  I feel to common sense. And lastly, before we go, I want to talk about in this age of instant gratification,  which is kind of annoying sometimes that instant gratification that a lot of people want relationships with vendors and subs can be truly transformational.

I think for the success and growth of our businesses and as an empathetic business leader, we have to learn how to attract the right people that will work with us. So the importance of these long term vendor and trade relationships are vital to the success of what we do as a company. And I know you mentioned before the things that they do.

But how do you feel that that just makes the firm look better by having these relationships and having these long term relationships. And if we have a repeat client, for instance, the client can see sometimes the same person coming back to work in their home. I think these relationships jobs. Uh, and I'm working with, uh, a custom woodworker that we've been working with for years and years and years.

I think the clients can see the rapport that we have going back and forth, the comfortable, honest rapport between ourselves and the trades person. And they know like, okay. Okay. They've worked together a hundred times. They know what each other is expecting and what each other needs. And I think there's a certain level of comfort and confidence that comes from that.

Also, when we develop these relationships over a period of years, they really come to our aid when. There's a tight turnaround or when there's a deadline looming, and even though they've been booked out and they couldn't possibly, somehow they find a way to help us and, and then it's my job to show them that appreciation and also to express my gratitude and recognize that they have saved the day.

Yes, I totally agree. And, you know, I think clients come to us, actually, I know clients come to us because they want the experience. They want our expertise. We are problem solvers. We should not only solve their problem design wise, but they also want us to have these relationships with people and that we work with.

And they love, as you said, knowing that we have this camaraderie, that we have this trust in the people. And I know. They love too, that we're going to refer people to them that are trustworthy, that are quality and that we can put our A list team of people right in front of them and that we use them all the time and that we know exactly that they're going to do the tasks that we asked them to do the way that we asked them to do that.

And as I said, this whole instant gratification society that we're in sometimes now, it annoys me. I'm very old school. I want deeper relationships. These are the ones that turn into other great things. For instance, let's say that a trade or a vendor has someone asked about the need of an interior designer.

If you are working with this vendor and trade and you have a deep relationship with them and there's a trust there, don't you want to be top of mind as the referral, as the person that this trader vendor can say, yes, call this company because they They are so good. Not only do they do great designs, but they treat their people well.

And I love working with them. They're professional. They're on time. They're respectful. They have fair pay, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So it goes deeper than just getting the task done. It goes much, much farther than that. And by having these long term business relationships in every capacity.

Everything that we touch and do as a business owner, it strengthens our bonds with everyone that we work with, including our clients. And I feel it really just makes us more successful and more profitable. So there you have it. Thank you all for listening in today and our chat about vendors, subs, and really just anyone that you want to partner with on a project, Heather.

Thank you for your valuable boots on the ground insight today as well. And again, thank you all. All for tuning in and listening to another episode of the designer within podcast. Remember high point market. If you're heading there, please check my dates. And I would love to see you at one of the panels or speaking engagements that I will be on.

And if you do want to come to the designer within. Podcast meetup and the signing for my book. Remember that is Sunday, April 14th at 2 p. m. At the antiques and design center. Would love to see you there until next time. I am your host, John McLean. And remember sometimes to see big changes on the outside, we have to look to the designer within.

See you next time.  Thanks for sticking with me to the end of the designer within podcast. It means the world to me. If you're ready to dive deeper into the topics that we've discussed here, be sure to check out my online coaching and courses program,  DesignSuccessAcademy. com. Here I will teach you everything you need to know to run your interior design business from starting the project all the way to the end, including marketing and pricing your services for profit.

And for more information on this podcast, including how to be a guest or my design services in general, go to johnmcclain.  co. That's johnmcclain. co. See you soon, friend!