Transformative Leadership Where Kindness Reigns with Guest Lisa DiBella

When Lisa DiBella, a sage of human resources, joined me for a conversation, we discovered that kindness isn't just a virtue—it's a leadership strategy. Imagine a workplace where compassion drives success and nurtures a vibrant culture. That's the world Lisa and I envision, and in today's dialogue, we dissect how three decades of her expertise in the field have proven that kindness and leadership are not mutually exclusive but rather a dynamic duo in the corporate landscape.
 
Transitioning from a storied career at MasterCard and Vice President of Human Resources role at American Portfolios, to heartfelt volunteerism, Lisa witnessed firsthand how the values we cherish off the clock can dramatically inform our professional lives. Lisa and I share personal stories, including her participation in the Miss Senior America pageant, illustrating that recognition of grace and talent transcends age and industry. We traverse the landscape of leadership, examining the traits of those who lead not with an iron fist but with an open heart, and how these qualities shape companies and communities alike, particularly during times of crisis.
 
Wrapping up, our episode is a homage to the unsung heroes of leadership—those who lead with kindness. Lisa and I believe that the principles of empathy and genuine relationship-building can be the bedrock of successful teams and organizations. So, join us as we share the transformative power of a kind heart in leadership and how it can reshape the future of corporate culture. For those eager to keep the conversation going, connect with Lisa and myself on LinkedIn, follow my journey on Instagram, and become a part of our 'We Are Made for More' podcast community. Here's to leading with love, and leaving a legacy of kindness in every step we take.

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Intro voiceovers by her family: son, Billy Alexander; daughter, Mackenzie Alexander; and husband, Bill Alexander.
Music by Bill Alexander
Produced by Bill Alexander

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Three, two, one, Hello and welcome to. We Are Made For More. I'm your host, Megan Alexander, and this is my podcast. I'm so excited to be here today for what is our eighth episode, and I have a guest today that I'm really excited to share with everybody, and her name is Lisa DiBella. So I'm going to tell you all, as normally do, a little bit about our guests so you know what's to come, and then we'll jump into it. But Lisa has been a human resources professional for 30 years, working in a management capacity for such firms as MasterCard International and the Expo Design Center. She recently retired with a great firm on Long Island it was called American Portfolios Financial Systems excuse me Services, where she was one of the executives holding the position of Vice President of Human Resources. So with that, welcome Lisa.

Speaker 2: 0:58

Thank you so much, megan. I am so excited to be here. I can't tell you really I am. You know, from the first moment I met you and you mentioned we are made for more, I was so excited to be here. I can't tell you really I am. You know, from the first moment I met you and you mentioned we are made for more. I was so impressed and I thought that you know, you talked a lot about kindness and I said how can I connect that with leadership and kindness? Because being in the corporate world, leadership and kindness is has so many good results and so I'm happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 1:26

That's wonderful. I'm thrilled that you're here too, and so this is actually a good place to discuss how we know each other. So far, I've known all of the guests that I have on the show. That's making it easier for me everybody. But let's talk about that. How do we know each other? Lisa, I'm going to turn it over to you.

Speaker 2: 1:41

Oh thanks. Do you remember meeting me? The first time I met you, megan, I know, was at my godson's graduation party in my backyard.

Speaker 1: 1:49

That's right.

Speaker 2: 1:49

And I said wow, she works for Apple. For what? 30 years?

Speaker 1: 1:53

Well, not so much. Actually just hit 23 years. 23 years, so over two decades.

Speaker 2: 1:58

So myself being with big companies, I said, oh, we have a lot in common. And then you know there is a kind way about you that I said I know that I'm going to really enjoy talking to you, so that was our first meeting.

Speaker 1: 2:10

Yes and yes.

Speaker 2: 2:11

And I did mention to my nephew that let's get together with Megan. I really like her a lot.

Speaker 1: 2:16

Thank you for saying that. I felt the same about you. I talk a lot on this show about how people are drawn to each other and energy that we put out there in the universe and what's returned to you and one of my episodes recently I had a guest that talks about your vibe attracts your tribe, and I definitely felt that with you like that instant connection of wow, I like this person, I love her energy and we had so much in common. Like you said, we love talking about people and kindness and leadership and how we like to kind of work in those environments, how we've liked to work in those environments in our life.

Speaker 2: 2:56

Yeah, it certainly makes you feel good. You know, it's nice to be with like-minded people and you don't always connect with people that way? No, you don't. No, you don't always connect with people that way.

Speaker 1: 3:04

No, you don't, no, you don't.

Speaker 2: 3:06

And that's okay too. And that's okay too.

Speaker 1: 3:08

Yes, yes you know when you do it, it's, it's great. Yeah, absolutely, and then you tune into that right, you tune into those connections and, um, if you pay attention to it and you have time for it in your life because I know people are really busy it's so cool to bring people into your circle and learn from them, right, share learned experiences and get to know each other better, and it certainly lights me up. So I'm thrilled to have gotten to meet you.

Speaker 2: 3:36

Thank you, and I am as well. Yeah, you are. You get. You just get inspired. You get so much energy from people that you have a lot in common with, and I love it. I agree with you.

Speaker 1: 3:46

And so I'm going to tell everybody a little bit more about you before we dive into our topic today. Actually, what I will say to the listeners out there is we're going to do something a little bit different today. Up until now, my episodes have really been about bringing people on and talking about their life stories, which I will still continue to do. Been about bringing people on and talking about their life stories, which I will still continue to do, because I think that's really a cool way to get to know about people and how they navigated their life the challenges, the successes and transitions, if you will. But today, lisa and I are going to talk about a topic, and we're going to as she's already been mentioning kindness and leadership, and leadership is a topic that's near and dear to my heart.

Speaker 1: 4:27

I've been in leadership in my career for quite a long time myself spent a long time leading teams in different retail organizations, and now, for the past 18 years, have supported executive leadership teams myself, so it's really important to me and I'm excited to talk about it. Lisa, let's talk a little bit more about your background, though, so when people listen in, they kind of can really translate that into what we're talking about In your spare time. I know you've served as a volunteer trainer for Child Abuse Prevention Services, also known as CAPS. You've received certification for coursework training from the University of the State of New York and the State Education Department on sexual harassment prevention and bully prevention programs for Nassau and Suffolk counties here on Long Island. Tell us a little bit about that.

Speaker 2: 5:21

You know it was quite. You know I took a break after leaving MasterCard. After being there 20 years with MasterCard, they moved our division to Kansas City and I opted to stay in New York. Great company, I learned so much from them. But I'm not the type to sit back. So I said you know, what can I do in my spare time? I had a little time, between you know, looking for jobs. So I somehow connected it was years ago with a program called Child Abuse Prevention Services and I was able to go into schools and talk about how to prevent bullying, and it was so rewarding and you know and I told my own experiences.

Speaker 2: 5:57

I came from an inner city school system and I know what it's like to have know being bullied or and we, we talked about it and it was. It was great we're able to help young children in elementary school and mid school, mid-level schools, to really understand that bullying is not okay right and yeah, and what to do and reach out to somebody that you might that might help. You don't join in, that's the most important thing, don't?

Speaker 1: 6:24

join in with someone else's bullying because you're afraid.

Speaker 2: 6:25

You want help, you don't join in. That's the most important thing. Don't join in with someone else's bullying because you're afraid. You want to. You know, be in the crowd. So it was wonderful, I was. I felt great about it. I again another thing that I was very inspired about and and uh, and that's how I got involved in that, and I did that for quite some time.

Speaker 1: 6:41

So did you ever have um situations, situations? Where did anybody ever share bullying stories with you?

Speaker 2: 6:48

You know they. There were some children that actually admitted that there was a bully in the class and he was sitting in the back of the room and I'd say to him you know, we really love you. You know, tell us why you feel like a bully, but you know it's a. It's something that maybe they learn from home, and not intentionally, but and it's control. It is a control thing. It's funny how sometimes bullies are in corporate America as well. It kind of translates.

Speaker 2: 7:15

So that kind of helped me, when I was in corporate America as well, to recognize that. And it's you know. We have a zero tolerance policy, whether you're in high in schools or at work, uh, so yeah, I never really witnessed anything. I myself was bullied and I told stories about it, and I remember telling a story that I had a girl that was a twin and I'm a twin, oh right, yeah. And she I a girl kept pulling my hair every day in school and then she finally stood up for me.

Speaker 2: 7:47

And she went and she said you know, please don't ever do that again, or maybe not with those choice of words, but she said it a little stronger, so she helped me out. So you tell stories and kids were able to connect. They really did love that and I was very happy to be part of that.

Speaker 1: 8:03

Yeah, I can imagine Team you was. I was very happy to be part of that. Yeah, I can imagine Um. You know I have to cause. My kids are teenagers now and throughout their growing up in their school district you know we've heard a lot of the different like bullying programs that they have, and I wish they had that when I went to school, like they didn't have that back in the day. And let's face it, like you just said, there there's bullies everywhere. There's bullies in corporate America, but there's bullies it doesn't matter where you go in life and exactly it's how was that person traumatized or what are they going through in their life that's making them act that way? There's a lot of psychology to it and maybe that could be an episode we do another time on itself.

Speaker 1: 8:39

I think we could probably could, because that's a really important topic. So I love that you've done work in that space. So another thing I wanted to transition to is something that's just a neat fun fact about you, which is you participated in oh, there goes my screen. You participated in a pageant called Age of Elegance. I guess it was the New York America pageant, is that correct? Am I saying?

Speaker 2: 9:06

that the right way. Yeah, yes, miss, senior America pageant, that's what it is, miss.

Speaker 1: 9:11

Senior America pageant.

Speaker 2: 9:13

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 9:14

And this pageant is the world's first and foremost pageant to emphasize and give honor to women who can share their personal and professional achievements and their positive outlooks on life, while demonstrating their extraordinary talents. I love that, yeah. So what made you do this? It?

Speaker 2: 9:31

was a neat program. I I was actually shopping one day and a woman and I began talking at the jewelry counter and she mentioned that she was participating in this program and she said that.

Speaker 2: 9:46

well, I said, oh, that's interesting because when I was younger my mom worked for the Italian organization and they had luncheons at the Plaza Hotel and the Waldorf Astoria and I always did some fashion shows, volunteered, and I was mentioning that to her. She said, well, we need someone to participate in this, we need another candidate. And I said she said, do you have a talent? And I said, well, not really, but I could sing a little.

Speaker 1: 10:13

Okay.

Speaker 2: 10:13

So she asked me to come and audition for it. It was in 2019 and I did and it was. It was again another wonderful program. I met professional women and it's not about all beauty. And actually they have an elegance about them. A lot of professional women. We had to do a story about your life on stage and we had a gown walk and we were judged by a real Miss America pageant contestant. Were you nervous at all? You know I was. The most part that I was nervous was was the singing.

Speaker 1: 10:52

Okay, because I don't. I don't think I sing great, but I got through it, you got through it I got through and it was, it was.

Speaker 2: 10:59

It was rewarding. It certainly stretches your capabilities.

Speaker 1: 11:02

You know. Good for you. I think it's really courageous that you did that here. You just ran into someone. They asked you and you're like I'm going to go for this, and I love when people tell stories about their life and something that they decided to try that was maybe not the norm for them. Is it okay if I read a little bit of what your statement was? As a pageant contestant, this was part of I'm not gonna read the whole thing, but part of Lisa's statement that she shared as a contestant.

Speaker 1: 11:30

I believe that possessing an infectious positive attitude keeps negative behavior from shaping who you are. This helps build character. With that in mind, I try to be the best person I can, always pushing the boundaries a little harder. It's the reason why I'm here today. I listen to my heart with compassion, kindness and honesty. If I believe in something strongly, I will stand up and fight for it. And, knowing there is both joy and sorrow in life, with lessons learned, the journey will inevitably lead us all to a better place. Okay, I lied. I read the whole thing. That was fantastic.

Speaker 2: 12:02

I had to read it.

Speaker 1: 12:04

So that's beautiful. It shares a lot about who you are and and about your heart.

Speaker 2: 12:09

So I appreciate it. It really did give me an opportunity to meet such wonderful people too.

Speaker 1: 12:14

And I am still participating.

Speaker 2: 12:16

I go to luncheons with all the pageant women and you know there are different events that we are participating in. So it was, it's a great opportunity. Great opportunity to keep active in the community.

Speaker 1: 12:28

Well, that's fantastic, lisa, and I also chose to talk about that here today because, as we said, our topic today is kindness and leadership, and that talked a little bit about yourself and you kind of just made a statement about kindness and what it means to you. So is it okay if we kick in and get to that part of the?

Speaker 2: 12:46

conversation yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:48

So you wanted to talk about kindness and leadership today. Let's start with what drove you to being so interested in leadership to begin with.

Speaker 2: 12:57

Well, first of all, I wanted to give you a compliment. Okay, because I wanted to say that, wow, I'll take it. I tell my friends about. We Are Made For More and they to say that, wow, I tell my friends about we Are Made For More, and then they're like gosh, what's that about? I said you know, listen to her podcast, because they're about kindness and again that connection and that's what drove me actually to talk to you about this and kindness and leadership.

Speaker 1: 13:16

So okay, but yeah, thank you for that. Well, thank you, and actually, yeah, I'll take the plug right now. Everybody, Please feel free to follow this podcast on any major podcast platforms, such as Apple or Spotify, etc. But we appreciate that. Thanks for saying that, Lisa. It means a lot.

Speaker 2: 13:32

Yeah, what led me to this? What was it? Why was it interesting? You know it goes back to my early careers career.

Speaker 2: 13:42

And when I used to look at our CEO on stage and I love the way they communicated, they connected with people. They just had this ability to remember people's names and I was so impressed by that. They made a conscious effort and they were great storytellers. Yes, yeah, and I said, you know, I clearly was inspired, spellbound by them, charmed, and I wanted, I was encouraged, to be like them. You know, it's difficult to be a leader. It really isn't easy. You get a pat on the back when things go well, you know, and you're held accountable when things aren't going well. I think that Simon Sinek said it greatly. He said that there's diversified personalities but it takes courage and integrity to be a leader. That's key. But at the same time, they have a subtle approach and they're able to share one common vision, which I think is kindness.

Speaker 2: 14:44

And those are the ones that are really successful, that have the empathy or, you know, effective communicators love them absolutely I agree with you.

Speaker 1: 14:54

As I said earlier, myself included, I've always just personally felt that it was natural for me to want to be a kind leader. Okay, but but I don't think that necessarily comes naturally to everybody. I think we'll get to that later in this conversation. Yeah, because there are many different styles of leadership out there, let's face it, and it's important to have situational leadership in different situations. Right, it depends on the scenario. How you lean in and how you direct and lead people is important, but we're here to talk about why kindness matters. So there's a connection with leadership, kindness and how kind leaders consistently get great results. Would you agree?

Speaker 2: 15:33

Oh, absolutely A hundred percent. I mean, I read a book by William Baker and Michael O'Malley, phds, and they identified surprisingly great attributes that unequivocally kind leaders share, and that is the integrity, the human qualities, that becomes the golden standard for excellence. And that's where results come in, because really, you know, we have the ability to lead positively. We know great leaders that lead positively and they get great results. And we've seen leaders that lead negatively and although they may have followers, we've seen that they don't get the results. In the end it never does. The performance may rise a little quicker, but it doesn't stay.

Speaker 2: 16:23

The performance may rise a little quicker but it doesn't stay so certainly with kindness and empathy and integrity and a moral compass it works. I mean leaders motivate employees. They know how to motivate committee members, board members, clients. They recognize unique talents and they're able to be great mentors, Haven't you?

Speaker 1: 16:53

had great mentors in your career, Of course, and those are the people that you think of like. What would that person do? I have moments of you know, maybe, when you don't have clarity in what to do and you might think of what does that leader that has been a mentor to me, what would they do here? And that's who you think of. You do.

Speaker 2: 17:12

I think I told you a story that I was working at MasterCard and I loved to just helping someone everyone not someone, just everyone in the department was very helpful and there was a senior leader that recognized me. He said you know, we need a person in HR and that's how my HR career started actually Really me. He said, you know we need a person in HR and that's how my HR career started, actually Really yeah. He said get Lisa trained get her into HR.

Speaker 2: 17:33

She's good. She's good with people, she has patience, and senior leaders do that. They recognize talent and they're able to mentor them and give them the ability to be self motivated, and it works. It works.

Speaker 1: 17:49

I agree with you. I could think of a couple times in my career where that happened as well, where I thought I was going on a certain path and a leader pulled me aside and said, hey, have you ever thought about you know? One example that comes to mind is when I was in college and I had someone pull me aside and say, have you ever thought about being in management? And I'm like, well, no, I mean, I think I was 19 years old, so I hadn't thought about that yet. And that's how my retail career started, to be honest with you, and I was made a supervisor. But because somebody saw capability in me and they said, hey, have you thought about this? So, and you just shared an example of when it happened for you. And I think those are great leaders too that can recognize in people some gift, skills and talents that maybe they don't even see in themselves.

Speaker 2: 18:35

And they and they take the time to do that Right. That's where kindness comes in.

Speaker 1: 18:40

Yes.

Speaker 2: 18:40

Because there's not everyone that will. They may just ignore it, or they're, you know, interested in their own. They have an own, their own agenda.

Speaker 1: 18:49

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:50

And so it's great when you do see that and people care enough you know and also great leaders are. They have the ability to influence change in organizations, which again create great results.

Speaker 1: 19:02

Very true, yeah. So, lisa, how do you lead with kindness? I know that you've given many presentations in your life. I'm sure that you could share some things with us about the how like our leaders, born with this talent.

Speaker 2: 19:30

So I want to start with that. Oh, they would. I was convinced that they had this DNA. They were charismatic and that's just the way they were born. They were fortunate enough to have that, that talent. But then, in time, after I did my research paper and my master's degree, my thesis paper, I did a little research and on leadership and what was it called? Leadership in corporations, leadership in the corporate world? Okay, yes, and I certainly found that people who had a desire to learn and they could learn through social influence it and it certainly can be nurtured.

Speaker 2: 20:08

So, yeah, that's how you know, so I know that it can be. You have to have a sincere um desire to want to be a great leader.

Speaker 1: 20:19

Okay, so starts with desire. The desire is, is for sure, important. You have to want to be a great leader, not for the ego part of it, not because of um the boss. Right, yeah, it's have to want to be a great leader, not for the ego part of it, not because I'm the boss right, yeah. It's because you want to inspire and build great teams.

Speaker 2: 20:34

Yeah, yeah, and you do. And I'll tell you another story that Lon, that was our CEO at American Portfolios. He was, he was. He demonstrates empathy and kindness always and you know, people admire him. He's just that way. And I'm not just saying that, he really is. And one day when I was doing a presentation I was new there I was a little nervous and you know, he and I had a conversation afterwards. He said you know what, lisa? You know why people like you when you do your presentations is because you're honest. Yes, and when you asked the question, what makes a great leader? And those are those little glimpses that you get, that you know someone says something to you that kind of changed my whole way of doing presentations.

Speaker 2: 21:21

Yes, I felt so good about it and I said you know, he's right.

Speaker 1: 21:23

I think that's fantastic.

Speaker 2: 21:25

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:26

Reminds me of. I do some Instagram reels, sometimes on my Instagram page, which, by the way, is called Megan Alexander, being real, if anyone out there wants to check it out but one of them recently was about that about being your authentic self, trying to show up as who you really are at work and in scenarios any scenario, whether it's a meeting, whether it's the one-on-one conversations that happen at the water cooler, whether it's you're giving feedback to a fellow employee it's about being who you are. You just nailed it when people could feel authenticity in somebody, they connect with you and they respect you because they know who you really are.

Speaker 2: 22:08

Yeah, and they trust you.

Speaker 1: 22:09

And they trust you. You're right, that's the key word.

Speaker 2: 22:12

We always said it. I think it takes trust, respect and loyalty. And with that combination it works. Whether you're in a personal relationship or a professional one, when you have those three components, it really does work. And I knew that he meant well. Yes, yeah, he meant well. And I lit up, I was like okay, and from then on I love doing presentation. This is a different style, by the way.

Speaker 1: 22:35

Okay, yeah, yeah, I'm always Tell me yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:37

I'm used to, you know, standing on stage and being able to walk around, and so you kind of own the stage and I'm enjoying this. This is kind of almost like an interview.

Speaker 1: 22:48

Yes, in some ways, and it's really great. Thanks again, sitting in a studio environment a little different, like you said. So what about the power of kindness and leadership? We just talked a little bit about authenticity, but what are your thoughts about the power that kindness and leadership can have?

Speaker 2: 23:06

Well, you know leaders are able to share a vision. You ever go to a company where they don't understand the vision.

Speaker 1: 23:16

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:16

Yeah, yeah. And so again, there was a story that was really impactful in our firm, American Portfolios, where we would do surveys every year of get the pulse of how the people are feeling. Isn't it important to understand how they feel? What's going on, Are they happy with management? And it was a third party administrator and it was completely anonymous. But it came back every year for a couple of years that people didn't understand the vision. So I spoke to my CEO and I said you know, Lon, it comes back that they don't understand the vision of the firm. And he said how could that be? Lisa, you know, I get up, I do the state of the firm every year, every quarter, and I talk about it and said, yeah, quarter. And I talk about it and said, yeah, well people respond more to what they see than what we they hear, so we created an infographic.

Speaker 2: 24:13

It was so cool, megan. Why what was? This infographic was a three-year roadmap and it talked about these are the important thing on our roadmap that we have to concentrate and this is our vision. This is where we're going and how we're going to get there. Okay, it was about the people and the culture and how we train. Do they have product knowledge? Do they have customer service?

Speaker 1: 24:34

training.

Speaker 2: 24:34

Do we give them performance feedback? Are we creating opportunities for growth and advancement? Next bucket innovation. Isn't technology the way to go? Sure, yeah, I mean technology, especially you being with Apple. Technology is are we being innovative? Are we making it seamless for our customers? Constantly looking at that? Then we brought in a quality assurance guy. Great guy had a master black belt in a Six Sigma training where he looked at processes in the company. Oh, that's interesting, yeah, and he was able to identify. You know, people like to do things the old way, don't they? Six Sigma training, where he looked at processes in the company.

Speaker 1: 25:07

Oh, that's interesting, yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:08

And he was able to identify. You know, people like to do things the old way, don't they? You know, oh, I don't want to change that process but it's not effective. So this individual was able to look at the processes in the firm and make changes, and so that was one real big piece process and quality assurance.

Speaker 1: 25:30

That's an interesting idea.

Speaker 2: 25:31

Customer service. Don't you want to look at what the customers think of?

Speaker 1: 25:34

us.

Speaker 2: 25:35

Are they happy? We did surveys Promoters? No, I'm not going to say because I don't remember the term, but they were a survey that we measured how they were feeling about us. Of course, we looked at the financials. Yeah, the financials were important. We had a great CFO that gave us the opportunity to look at where we're making money. Of course, that's what we had to, and then the biggest piece, which everyone that came in for an interview loved, was community service.

Speaker 2: 26:08

We did a lot with community service. Our ceo did 110 mile bike ride with disabled veterans. That's our company, great, great community service. So those were the buckets that we. That's the vision. So when you ask the question, what are the characteristics of a great leader? I think that's what you asked. They're visionaries, but they communicate those visions and they care. Now we could have said well, you know what, they're not getting it on the survey, but we didn't. We took it a step further and we created this infographic that people loved.

Speaker 1: 26:47

That was what I was just going to ask you. What was the response from employees?

Speaker 2: 26:51

We had them all over the conference rooms everywhere. We had them at national conferences posted places when we interviewed. Actually, people that interviewed were very impressed with the firm and how we had this, this outline of this infographic, a three year plan. Yeah for sure, yeah so, and so we were constantly measuring. So, yeah, it was, it's not easy not easy being a leader. Leaders are. It's a difficult job.

Speaker 1: 27:25

Absolutely. I think about everything that you just shared and, as an employee, the vision is important. So you know what you're working towards and focusing on the priorities of the company, and then you know what you're going to be measured on as well. You know what's important to the company, so you're crystal clear on your goal and what you're supposed to be doing at work, and you know that they care about you and what you're supposed to be doing at work and you know that they care about you. Sounds like everything you said is that you care about and you care about the community, with the community service and volunteering aspect of it, which I think is so important, and a lot of corporations are making that a focus these days as well.

Speaker 2: 28:00

Yeah, giving back, yes, and it wasn't only for public relations. You know a lot of companies may do it for those reasons. No, we generally cared relations. You know a lot of companies may do it for those reasons. No, we generally cared. We did a lot with autistic children, which was so rewarding.

Speaker 1: 28:15

Absolutely Such memories that I have that I'll never forget. Yeah, yeah, it is important. So, um, let's talk about how does kindness relate to leadership and relationships.

Speaker 2: 28:23

Yeah, that's interesting because you know. Yeah, that's interesting because you know. I'll mention John Maxwell.

Speaker 1: 28:30

Yes.

Speaker 2: 28:30

Yeah, he wrote many books on leadership and he nailed it on the head. He said that leaders first of all have to influence people. They're no different than parenting really in some ways they build trust, they show compassion, they build great followers or leaders. But you have to build relationships right. You can't build a relationship with someone you don't know? Yes, so you have to find out what motivates them what drives?

Speaker 2: 28:57

them, how can they become self-motivated? And you don't have to be in a position of power, but you have to be in a person of influence.

Speaker 1: 29:09

And that's what John Maxwell's, isn't that great.

Speaker 2: 29:12

Don't have to be in a position of power, but you have to be a person of influence, influencing people and making them see just like the guy that said, the senior person that told me Lisa, you know, you'd be great in HR. He recognized that he was a person of influence, you'd be great in HR. He recognized that he was a person of influence. He was able to influence me. That was the direction I needed to go in.

Speaker 1: 29:33

It is yeah and wow how nice was that. Changed your life.

Speaker 2: 29:37

Yeah, as you mentioned that someone said to you and your career kind of went in that direction for it Isn't that exciting.

Speaker 2: 29:47

So I think that Kimberly Allen I believe her name was another motivational speaker that I met at the Society of Human Resources conference in San Diego, california, loved her. She said think of it first of all what leaders go through, think of it first of all what leaders go through their budgets and succession planning, recruiting, staffing, hiring um diversity and inclusion. They're dealing with so much and everything falls under the umbrella of leadership. But she, I loved what she said here. She said if you put a mouse in a maze and you put a piece of cheese in the maze, it's not the cheese that drives the mouse, it's the hunger.

Speaker 2: 30:31

So, find out what makes people hungry.

Speaker 1: 30:34

What a quote. Isn't that great, that's powerful.

Speaker 2: 30:37

It was powerful and you know, and Megan, again we talk about, I talk, we talk about kindness. How does that connect with kindness? It's because people care.

Speaker 1: 30:45

It's caring, it's caring, that's all it is.

Speaker 2: 30:48

I mean, we could have you know, and I know we can have managers that well, you know what, if they don't care, they don't try hard then that's on them but it's not. We are responsible as leaders to find out what makes people hungry.

Speaker 1: 31:02

I think all statistics show that the leaders that care are the ones that build the best teams, the ones that build, like we talked about trust, the ones that build loyalty with the employee to want to work hard for that person, even when things get tough. Right, because, let's face it, work is a four letter word. It can be tough and it comes in. It comes in seasons, and so, when the times get tough at work, if you have a great leader that you know believes in you, you, you like you just talked about the hunger like you're going to work hard anyway, you're still going to be able to get it done. You know that you can maybe go to that leader and say what's going on with your life hey, I'm going through this tough time right now or and they'll be more willing to work with great leaders, in my opinion will then be more willing to work with you.

Speaker 1: 31:49

Um, because there's you've got a dialogue, you have a relation. We talked about relationships. You have a relationship with each other. You're a human being. You're not just someone that goes and punches in and you're doing the work and going home. You've got stuff going on in your life yeah, everybody does.

Speaker 2: 32:03

Yeah, and you're inspired and you feel good about it yes yeah, yeah, you know, when we 2008, when there was a market crash, mm-hmm. Our leader said to every employee. He said we are not gonna let one person go he had to stay to the firm I brought everyone in. It was a big deal and people were afraid they were gonna lose their jobs. They had mortgages mm-hmm and he said I will take a salary cut. Wow, I would not get any salary. If so that you, I will not let anyone go.

Speaker 1: 32:39

Wow.

Speaker 2: 32:39

And that's, that is a wow, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 32:41

It is a wow.

Speaker 2: 32:42

And those are the kinds of things, as you mentioned the honesty, the trust, the loyalty that builds retention, and we had strong retention. So you know, I've seen it, yeah, I've witnessed it, yeah. And you know, I've seen it. Yeah, I've witnessed it. Yeah, and you know we we'd always joke, lon and I, when we'd say people never terminate them. We don't terminate people, we never did, megan I'll tell you honestly, really we if it was insubordination of course yes, okay but we gave everybody the opportunity to make a change.

Speaker 2: 33:11

Give them the give them the opportunity to show that they could change behavior. Yes, and if they don't, then they terminate themselves, don't they? Yeah, they do, yeah, yeah, so that's again building trust and getting to you know, working for a firm that you really love.

Speaker 1: 33:26

Leadership is important so this, this sounds like a great firm. By the way, I just want to say this, gentleman lon that you keep speaking of, I'd love to meet someday. So you could let him know that for me, yeah, it's so nice to meet great people like that. So, lisa, what are some attributes of great leaders?

Speaker 2: 33:44

Well, you know it's funny, they, the attributes are just, they're simple. I know we've mentioned a couple, but they similar to what we're doing right now. They smile. We've mentioned a couple, but they similar to what we're doing right now. They smile right they embrace changes, they acknowledge people, they show confidence. Those are great characteristics. They are, again, great um communicators, they celebrate people's success, um they check in their mentors. We that those are great characteristics. And is that the question you asked me? Yeah, no, it is, and I'm thinking about it too.

Speaker 1: 34:23

Integrity. I'm thinking about it even as you say it. You know, I'll give an example. Years ago and I'm going back honestly over probably over 20 years ago, but it does stand out in my mind, honestly over, probably over 20 years ago, but it does stand out in my mind, I was in a leadership conference and I was in a breakout group with you know, everybody that's been in a breakout group before you know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 1: 34:44

Okay, everyone, we're gonna break out and you're gonna go with a smaller group of people and and do this discussion about leadership and we I want to say there may be I don't six people in the group, so it's pretty small. But this one person in the group basically came right out and said and again, this isn't a show that we're going to name names or anything like that, but this is an example of something that I experienced in my life. But this person said that they didn't really care about people or their problems, that they were convinced that they were a great manager and they knew how to drive results. It was so important to them. I get great results, I drive results.

Speaker 1: 35:23

Again, this is a long time ago, so the person was new in their management career, but I remember sitting there saying perplexed how could it be that you don't care about the people that work for you? That doesn't register for me. And this person basically was saying, yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't really matter. I mean I'll like so. Do you listen if somebody comes to you with a problem?

Speaker 1: 35:44

Well, I'll pretend to listen was kind of what this person said and that really had an effect on me, that I even experienced this in a breakout group, because, first of all, it's foreign to me anyway, like how could you not care about someone? And this was one person right, there's millions of people out there, there's actually billions of people out there, but that's the example of what not to do folks, right? I'm sure for those listening to this, to this show, they probably know that already, but it does exist and that's why I'm even bringing it up. It does exist out there that there are some people that just don't care, and I don't think they're going to go far in their careers, quite frankly, because they won't build that trust with people.

Speaker 2: 36:22

You know, I'm glad you brought that up, because they don't go far in their careers. I've seen it, and I've seen it even in this company, where people have strategies that are, and the behaviors are not of what we just spoke about all those great characteristics and it's a form of bullying.

Speaker 1: 36:43

It's a form of bullying and what happens.

Speaker 2: 36:46

People are fearful. They don't want to talk up. They clam up, they're afraid, they feel they're nervous, they're scared. That's not the kind of environment you want to be in. So I know you mentioned that was a long time ago, it was yeah, but shame on him.

Speaker 1: 37:04

Exactly so. Forgive me everybody that I brought that example up, but let's be honest. It's important to say that there are all types of leaders out there. But I think this is we're really trying to shine the light on why kindness is so important, and so I want to also ask you why is kindness so empowering?

Speaker 2: 37:25

You know, I think it's just, it's the greatest strength of an organization. You know you have to look at what. You know, you have to be vigilant and it's just powerful because people I think Simon Sinek said it just feels good. People just feel good and that's what makes it powerful. They feel good. And then there's the trust, and we did so many team building exercises and read books. We did in this last former company. And I'll tell you MasterCard, as well as Home Depot, which is Expo Design Center.

Speaker 1: 38:01

Okay.

Speaker 2: 38:02

Great on, you know, enforcing the fabric of the firm and the culture that they believe in. Respect, trust, loyalty and those are the powerful attributes that come from a great leader, great firm.

Speaker 1: 38:16

It stems from the top right, it does.

Speaker 2: 38:19

Yeah, and then they try to trickle it down and that's why they have HR, that they keep an eye out on that and they try to make sure that people are there's fair practices and policies and they're continually auditing that people feel good. Those are the powerful things that people want to work for a firm.

Speaker 1: 38:38

Yeah, yeah. So you've mentioned, uh, simon Sinek a couple of times today, and that's definitely somebody that I follow as well. I, one of his books is, um, I think it starts with. It starts with why, um, my son is reading that book right now too. But you've mentioned a couple of you know, john Maxwell, a couple of other great people that folks out there should check out, and we'll also put those in the end of this episode if people want to see the bio of some of the books that you've mentioned today.

Speaker 2: 39:08

So thank you.

Speaker 1: 39:09

I think that's really important. So, to wrap this up in terms of the kindness conversation, is there anything else that you would share with the audience about leadership, kindness or anything that's related to that?

Speaker 2: 39:25

I just think that people just have to make a conscious effort to work on it.

Speaker 1: 39:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:30

And we're all human beings and we want to be treated well, and that all ties into kindness. I really do believe that. I mean, if we just could shut. It's not what you say, it's just how you say it.

Speaker 1: 39:42

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:43

It really is, and you have to be conscientious of that.

Speaker 1: 39:46

It's not what you say, it's how you say it. It's how you say it, I like that.

Speaker 2: 39:51

And how you communicate it, do it with kindness. It makes you feel great and wonderful. I know it does me.

Speaker 1: 39:57

It makes you feel great and it makes the recipient feel great.

Speaker 2: 40:00

And the recipient feel great.

Speaker 1: 40:03

And for anyone out there that's trying to think about how do you maybe speak up for yourself at work. Maybe there's something going on and you would like to talk about it. Don't be afraid. This is what I would say is don't be afraid to ask for a conversation with your leader and explore having a conversation about what's important to you, and as long as you're kind. I think that's the opposite of it too right. We're talking about kindness and leadership today, but also kindness as an employee. If you approach things with an open heart and assuming positive intent, you could get to, I think, a great resolution. If you have a leader, that's a good recipient also.

Speaker 2: 40:46

That is so key. I mean that open communication means a lot and again, it's all about the caring and it takes time and effort. It does take time and effort, and if you're a good leader, you need to take that time and effort and and it uh a pat on the back for those who do yeah.

Speaker 1: 41:03

I agree, I agree, lisa. Um, thank you for the conversation today. Is there anything else that, uh, that I haven't asked you, that you'd want to bring up?

Speaker 2: 41:13

Um.

Speaker 1: 41:14

I'm sure there's a lot more we could talk about.

Speaker 2: 41:15

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think in another segment we could talk about maybe what you know. We talked about kindness and great leadership and what is a toxic environment like? And why doesn't that work, and so just people can understand that more. But yes, we know what works in a great environment with great leaders and and you know and individuals that work at it continuously strive to be better. But what is it like when it's a toxic environment?

Speaker 1: 41:45

and what can you do about it?

Speaker 2: 41:46

yeah, because some people feel strapped in that environment because they can't get away from it they feel trapped and they feel um.

Speaker 1: 41:54

I guess trapped is is the best word, because you know if you have bills to pay and you're not sure how to get out or what to do but you're right, that's we'll have you come back for another topic. Would you be up for that?

Speaker 2: 42:03

Of course. Of course, this was great.

Speaker 1: 42:05

I loved it, this was great, and the time flies when you're having fun. I always say that, but um, I, I can't thank you enough for coming out and and being part of the show today. I think this topic is such an important one and, let's face it, Anybody that's out there in the world we, we, we want to talk about kindness and how important it is. So today it was about kindness and leadership, but you know we could spend kindness to many areas of life, so we hope you all leave with a kind heart today and think about that when you're out there. So thank you, Lisa, for coming.

Speaker 2: 42:38

Thank you so much, Megan, All right everybody.

Speaker 1: 42:41

You could follow Lisa on LinkedIn. Look for Lisa DiBella on LinkedIn. If you're in the professional world and you want to take a look and look up her history, please do that. You could follow me, megan Alexander, being real on Instagram. You could also, like I said, take a look at our podcast. We are made for more and please follow and share. Maybe you know someone that would like to hear this episode, but we appreciate you, the listener, for checking us out today. That's it, everybody. Peace out.

Speaker 2: 43:11

Great.