Would you erase your trauma?

Today, joined by Dr Matt Slavin, we delve into the question: "Would you erase your trauma if you could?" Exploring both big and little traumas, we acknowledge their impact on shaping us. Trauma isn't just about life-threatening events but also repeated feelings of betrayal or neglect. Our experiences, good and bad, mold us, propelling us towards achievements or influencing our relationships. Trauma often dictates our choices and behaviors, affecting how we navigate life's challenges.

Through stories like Sir Edmund Hillary's, we see how past wounds can drive us to remarkable feats. Yet, trauma can also trap us in toxic patterns, blurring our perception of reality and hindering growth. Acceptance becomes pivotal, acknowledging the past while embracing the present. It's about radical acceptance—recognizing what we cannot change and focusing on self-improvement.

In a study, 99.9% of respondents, despite enduring severe traumas, opted not to erase them, understanding that doing so would alter their entire life's trajectory. It's a testament to the complexity of human experience, where trauma isn't solely a burden but also a catalyst for growth. By embracing our multifaceted selves and seeking love and safety, we embark on the healing journey, empowering ourselves to choose connections that nurture our well-being. Ultimately, we are observers of our lives, wielding the power to shape our narratives and find solace in love and acceptance.

Contact details for Matt: 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/drmattslavin/

Transcript

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Welcome to our relationship success. Show the place for relationship empowerment and actionable tools. So you can let go of old wounds and create happy, loving relationships. Whether you're single, married, divorced, or anything in between. Set yourself up for relationship success. I'm Dr. Saara clinical psychologist, I'm consultant, helping business leaders and entrepreneurs to feel more connected and whole. Let's get started. Hello my friends. Today I am joined by clinical psychologist, Dr. Matt Slavin, who specializes in high performance men who are looking to be more emotionally resilient. And I'm so super excited to have him here because we're going to be talking about this really interesting topic and interesting question. Potentially controversial question, which is, Would you erase your trauma if you could? And I'm going to, I'm going to open up the floor to Matt as well, just in terms of sharing initially, how we even got to this point? How did we even get to this point of deciding this question? I think, I work with we both work with lots of very impressive, amazing people in this world, and they come to us with problems at hand, usually things they want to be better in life, a challenge to overcome, and very quickly, More often than not, we find ourselves talking about the traumas in their life. Now, traumas in the big T traumas, right? So like the big events that have happened, the accidents, the assaults, the horrible, scary stuff that have happened in life, but the little T traumas too, the repeated feelings repeated kind of betrayals, the repeated injustices, the repeated experiences of neglect. Just not having people in their life as they want them to and very quickly we get there. And so we were having a talk about the research out there and our clinical work that points to some of this stuff, that happens early on in life, it sets us on a trajectory. And some of that stuff is some of the stuff that makes you amazing and brilliant and powerful. and gives you a drive to achieve the most incredible things in life. And would you have that if you hadn't had this pain in the past? Now, are we saying we don't want you to have pain? Probably yes, we don't want people to experience pain, but what would life look like? That's the question, right? Sarah, what would life look like if some of these significant events in your life hadn't happened? How different would it be? Would your life look and would you want to erase them? I think it's such a, an interesting topic, right? Because I would argue that we've all had trauma. Every single one of us walking this planet, we've had trauma in one way or another, and so you're right in that there's big T and little T traumas. And so that they're defined different clinically, but also trauma is very much. Which personally defined, it's very much subjectively defined. And I think we've really stepped into this era where more people are more aware of their psychological, emotional wellbeing. And so they're really defining trauma to them in terms of what that perception is, as opposed to the old school, traditional definition of what trauma is. So the old school definition would have been you or someone that you witnessed was in a life threatening situation. That would be the essence, right? And I know with a lot of clients that I work with, they're two sided. So there's one category of clients I work with where they've experienced some horrific abuse really significant, whether it be physical, emotional, sexual, financial, really, Big T traumas, but then there's also people who've experienced things that are chronically traumatic, even though they might not necessarily label it as trauma so it's almost like having repeated instances of the same painful thing time and time again. Repeated, too. Experiences of rejection or repeated experiences of criticism or not feeling enough or feeling dismissed or feeling neglected. The parent was always absent. Because these things are also traumatic and it's a cumulative effect, right? So it's, so one metaphor that I'd like to use is there's a real difference between a house on fire and carbon monoxide in your house. So a house on fire, you know your house is on fire. That is an obvious big T trauma. However, If you've got carbon monoxide in your house, that will still kill you. You just don't notice it as much. And actually, I would argue that the little t trauma could potentially be more dangerous because of the fact that you don't notice it, because of the fact that it's a bit more subtle, because it's easier to dismiss or easier to excuse, because it's easier to not have the monitor of carbon monoxide or, the monitor of, hey, this is actually negatively impacting me. It's easier to avoid looking at those things than it is to look at them. With a big fire, you can't not look at it. You have to respond, whichever way you respond, but you have to respond, right? And and there's I suppose the statement that I'm making there is really looking at trauma as a whole. And in my area of specialty, with regards to how it transpires, particularly in a really important topic of relationships, is that we bring our trauma to the relationship. Regardless of what state, what stage of life you're in, how much you've processed but we all come with baggage. And this is perfectly normal, by the way. I'm not blaming anybody here, but this is just part of the human life experience. We come into a relationship with some level of baggage. Part of that is our traumas, our history. And if we don't really resolve them, then they create something. So they either influence our choice and partner or, and the choice and partner, it might reflect previous partners that we've had and, or previous relationships that we've been used to. If we've always been criticized by somebody, we're likely attract a partner who is also critical. Or, we might end up acting out some of the traumas that we've had previously. So if we felt like we always had to be submissive, we are going to become submissive in that relationship. And equally, let's say in the field of. Any other field. So it has a ripple effect in terms of how we operate with work, how we operate with our friendships, how we operate with family. It really does have an impact. But going back to the original question, would you erase your trauma if you could? What would you, I don't think anyone, we're never saying, we're not saying we want you to have hardship in your life, we don't wish that upon anybody, but how would life be different? And maybe that's a thought for yourself as you're listening to this, what happened as a result of going through those? Now, you learn lessons in life through all of your experience. And so some of those are unconscious lessons in that you get your behavior gets directed. Some of those you might have a light shined upon. So like the fire is a great analogy. I love that, Sarah. So the big fire, you can clearly see it. So then you go, okay, how do I put this out? And then I don't want to be in fires anymore. I don't want to be in a burning house or in relationships. I don't want that in my relationship for my next one. When I find myself in a place to do that. So I think the, this self work we both do with clients is so important here because actually what we're saying is. These invisible strings from our past, they come alive in the present, these old wounds, they direct us and guide us. And how have things guided you? Now the thing about trauma, I'll just add this in Sarah, is that yes, they wound us, but they also hurt us. motivate us. They motivate us to survive. That's one of the functions of the wounding, is that it, switches on our nervous system to do things like fight or flight, to be hypervigilant, look out for dangers lots. to, or to disengage, to not invest as much of our emotions and ourself so that it doesn't hurt so much. And for some people, these bring up incredible human achievement. So I said, I'd mentioned Ed Edmund Hillary. And so you may or may not know who that is, but Sir Edmund Hillary with Sherpa Tenzing, they climbed Mount Everest for the first time which is a very big mountain, unbelievable human feat what they did. And he's got an interesting story of little tea trauma, which may or may not be aware of. He went to he grew up in Auckland in New Zealand and he had a gym teacher who said to him repeatedly I've got the quote here, said the gym teacher said to him that he had rounded shoulders and a bowed back and just about everything was wrong with me that was possible to be wrong with me. And so when I know, and when he was 70, he was interviewed again, many years later after. And he said, he was, he said, I remembered the words of that coach and that gym teacher and said the gym teacher put him in the, they had a no hopers group for sports, like they're they weren't going to achieve anything in the sporting achievement. Just forget about it. And he said in that interview at 70 said I really have never forgotten about that. He said, at the words, I still have that same feeling. Whenever he thinks about it, so that hugely influenced him, right? And drove him to do the most incredible things. And we hope hopefully he resolved and healed some of that. But part of that is about who he was that he needed to prove himself. And how much of our life do we carry this old wounds with us in unhelpful ways? Yes. But maybe they've allowed us to survive or they've allowed us to do things that are important to us. Don't know if you see that in your clients, Sarah, if you see people who. It's part of them is this story, and it's been important to what they've achieved in life. I think it's a real blend of so many things and it almost feels like a bit of a soup. And so what I mean by that is that. It really thinking about my clinical experience, I'm gonna quote a few big researchers here, but in terms of my clinical experience, I think it really does depend on the stage that the person's at with regards to grief. over the life that they wish they had and acceptance over what is actually happening. And the reason I'm talking about grief with respect to trauma is that, often people, when they've lived through trauma, they also have this Opposite imagined expectation of what reality should have been. So I should have had this, I should have had a loving parent. I should have had a loving teacher, let's say. I should have had a loving partner. I should have. And it's almost we end up being pulled into these expectations of what we should have. And when you're met with trauma, when you're facing that the difference is much more magnified because your expectation might be up here and then your reality in terms of what you're experiencing is down here. And so that becomes much more impactful. And so you I suppose I'm stepping out a little bit here and talk More general, but, if we look at Norwegian countries they're really interesting in how they measure well being because they have arguably the highest quality of life in the world. Also some of the high suicide rates. And so that in itself is a contradiction. And part of the reason for that is because actually their expectation of their quality of life has become so, so high that anything that doesn't meet that expectation is automatically seen as toxic. And and then, so that really pushes them to the limits, to suicidality, even though arguably, and by the very definition of you being born. In any of the Western countries, and I'd say, 90, I'd say 90 percent of the population, I would say anyone who has even got a phone to listen to this podcast right now, you are automatically defined as being the top 10%. of humanity in terms of your luck globally, right? I know that's a bit of a brush statement but it's true, right? If we're looking at a global perspective of what is trauma, right? And so I think that's something that's of being a human as well. Or being a human, right? Yeah, exactly. And so I think, something's, I just want to say that just for people to keep in the back of their mind that even though we are going through real hardship, and I'm not at all dismissing people's hardships at all, but I'm simply making a statement that, Sometimes our expectations of what things should be like become really skewed because of, let's say, the society that we've been brought up in because of what we're bombarded with social media and all the rest of it. And so when the reality hits us that life isn't always perfect, then we take it as a much bigger blow, right? And so this is just really a statement with regards to what stage you're at in terms of the grief with the trauma. So we're really grieving this expected reality that we hoped we would have had. So a lot of my clients, for example, they have this expectation, particularly if they've been trauma bonded. They're starting a relationship and things are so beautiful, they're so magical, they're so whimsical, they're perfect, they're romanticized, idealized. And, they've got the castle in the sky idea, right? And so that becomes our expectation. And so the moment that something drops. It's confusing. But what happens is that they're also not wanting to grieve the fact that their expected reality is not true. They're not wanting to look at the reality for what it is. They're in this space where psychologically they're in this idealized state and then They're met with the reality, but then they remain in this really toxic environment, and they believe that they're shackled, and you know what, I'm not at all dismissing the pain that people have experienced, because of course they have experienced pain but what often happens is that they're in this state where they think, Oh my God what the hell's just happened to me? And so then they're not yet at the stage of being able to grieve that imagined, hopeful reality that they created. or the expectation that they would have created. And so there's something to do with, like, how much you've grieved, what stage you're at in terms of being able to grieve. And then, with the stages of grief, the final stage is acceptance, right? And I really love the idea of radical acceptance. So radical acceptance is to say, you know what happened was what it was. It was horrific. Of course it was. And being able to validate the emotions, I'm not talking about positive toxic positivity, sorry. I'm talking about being able to validate those emotions, but it's also to say, I cannot change what's already happened. So what is it that I have in my power right now to be able to improve myself in spite of what's happened or with the presence of what's happened. And and I think that in itself is really important. And there's this research, it was done with 12, 000 people. It was by Mo Gawad, incredible individual. And basically what they found they asked people a very simple question. And the question was, would you erase your trauma if you could, but also by erasing their trauma, it means that they would erase. any other lessons that they learned from the trauma, any other progression that they would have developed from the trauma, any of the people that they would have met, any of the relationships that they would have created, any of the connections, like you, you would erase basically all of the other after effects of the trauma. And these are people who've experienced horrific traumas, like people who've lost their children, who've lost parents, who've been in, in really tragic circumstances, sexual abuse, physical abuse, like really horrific traumas. And 99. 9 percent of people said that they wouldn't erase it and that I think is huge to consider because as much as we are often in resistance with the trauma, and sometimes it, sometimes, we believe it's good for us to resist the trauma and we believe it is because we gain some level of validation, but actually the core that we're looking for is validation for the trauma. But to change it would also mean that you're changing you, you're changing your development, your reality, you're changing your progression through life. And that's something that's huge to consider. And in my personal philosophy is that it's a huge act of bravery and courage to do, to be willing to look at. The trauma to be willing to look at all parts of yourself to get to the, through the journey of acceptance, because that's what it also means is that means I'm going to look into the darkness and I'm going to look at the things that I try and avoid because that's part of trauma. I try and avoid and not think about it, but I'm going to do that so that when I do spend time with that part of myself, it's more comfortable. It's tolerable. It's bearable and it can be uncomfortable as well as okay. And I think that's a really powerful message that you've gosh, that 99 percent would say. This is, it made me, or for whatever reason, what would I lose in the process? And there's also this question of what would the alternative path have been? Would it have been worse? Because a lot of people also don't know what they don't know. And it's again, I just want to be super clear. I'm not wishing ill upon anybody at all. But, there's always this question of I don't actually know what the alternative is. But what people are creating is this expected imagined reality in their mind of what things should be like. And so that's, and if that's your point of comparison, it becomes really hard to ever be able to match up to that. And one message that I would really like to share just as a closing statement is that we are the observers of life. And the more that we can step into that energy of being the observer of life, The more that we can have choice and autonomy over what it is that we want to connect with, the experiences that we want to invite into our lives, the people that we want to spend more time with, we can then truly recognize that we are a multitude of different things. We're not just our trauma. We're not just one thought. We're not just one emotion or whatever it might be. But actually, we are a culmination of so much more. And All we're looking for is simply to be loved and to feel safe with that love. And so the more that we can observe ourselves through that lens of we embody everything and all we're looking for is safety and love, the more that we can choose to connect to safety and love. And that's part of the healing journey. If you liked this show, please do me three solids first, share it with a friend because if he found it helpful, I bet you that one of your friends will DT second subscribe so that you never get to miss an episode and third, please rate the show to help other people find life changing content. I'm on a mission to help as many people as possible, have a healthy and fulfilling relationships. So please help me in my mission.