Kevjet - The Podcast with special guest, Al: Unveiling Sobriety's Strengths – A Journey of Addiction, Identity, and Ultramarathons

When Al confronted his reflection in the mirror, he didn't just see himself; he saw a life ruled by alcohol's relentless grip. Our latest episode invites you into the heart of Al's inspiring transition to sobriety, a journey illuminated by self-discovery and heartfelt connections within the LGBTQ+ community. Join us as Al candidly recounts the challenges of his addiction, the pivotal moments of embracing change, and how he replaced superficial drinking companions with profound friendships that transcend the need for a drink in hand. His story isn't simply about battling addiction; it's an uplifting beacon of hope, demonstrating the life-altering power of introspection and the undeniable strength found within supportive circles.

Strap on your running shoes and prepare to traverse the mental and physical endurance of ultramarathons alongside our guest, Al, whose passion for the sport mirrors his commitment to personal growth. In this conversation, we navigate the often-tricky landscape of social life sans alcohol, uncovering the genuine confidence and authenticity that come from forging deeper connections. Al's account sheds light on the societal pressures and personal revelations that accompany a sober lifestyle, offering solace and guidance to those on a similar path. The episode further delves into the intersection of sexuality and alcoholism, praising the exceptional work of organizations like London Friend, which offers a lifeline to those wrestling with substance abuse in the LGBTQ+ community.

In a world where labels and societal expectations often cloud our true selves, Al's journey to sobriety serves as a powerful reminder of the importance of self-acceptance and genuine contentment. Our discussion takes a reflective turn, punctuated with Al's quirky ambition to master balloon modeling and his tranquil recollections of a recent Sri Lankan escapade. Al imparts wisdom on personal transformation, drawing inspiration from Matthew Todd's "Straight Jacket," a poignant commentary on the internalized shame pervasive within the LGBTQ+ community. This episode isn't just a story of triumph over addiction; it's a heartfelt exploration of personal resilience, identity, and the relentless pursuit of a life lived authentically.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to another exciting episode of KevJet, the podcast. I'm excited to introduce to you this week's guest, Al. We discuss his journey of sobriety and self-discovery.

Speaker 2: 0:15

Some people are just not meant to drink, and I'm one of them. It's an important conversation. I wish that I'd had access to other conversations back when I've needed them. I think you know for me like life has become. It's a bit of a cliche, I think, especially within recovery circles, but I think it's become quite unmanageable. I was in a position where I felt that my personal and professional lives were imploding. I carried around a lot of shame with my drinking.

Speaker 1: 0:46

Al opens up about his struggles with alcohol and how he found the road to recovery Okay, buckle up.

Speaker 2: 0:55

People get sober for a number of reasons. I decided I had to get sober because I couldn't handle my relationship with alcohol. I couldn't hide it. I was getting into trouble at work. I was letting people down in my personal life. I was so unhappy In recovery. You talk about reaching a rock bottom.

Speaker 2: 1:19

Is there a right or a wrong way to help a loved one with addiction. Fundamentally, the only person who can help you is you, and that's what it comes down to, and I think that's the really frustrating. The really hard thing when you see someone who's suffering from addiction or who is not able to break out of that cycle is there is nothing you can do until they have learned that for themselves.

Speaker 1: 1:39

In this candid conversation, al delves into the depths of his battles, revealing the profound impact of support networks, accountability and the LGBTQ plus community. Sit back, relax and enjoy this conversation with Al.

Speaker 2: 1:55

I don't like these questions. They make me uncomfortable.

Speaker 1: 2:01

Welcome, al, to KevJet the podcast. Thank you very much for having me. I'm excited to have this conversation. I think it's a really important conversation to have and I know our listeners will be tuning in for this one.

Speaker 2: 2:16

Yeah, I am a little bit not nervous but, like I said, I think it's a really important conversation and I thought when you asked me about having this conversation, I really wanted to. I wish that I'd had access to other conversations back when I when I've needed them, so it's great to be here.

Speaker 1: 2:36

Thank you very much and I agree, it's an important conversation yeah, I think everybody that will be tuning in will have known somebody or been affected in some way by the subjects that we're going to talk about today, and we're going to talk about your sobriety. Yeah, I'm ready, let's do this. So, first of all, just tell me a little bit about yourself. Let's get to know you a little bit.

Speaker 2: 3:02

So my name is Al, I am 33. I live in London. I work in events around my own business. I've always worked in sort of hospitality and events and creating fun times for people and I love being at the center of it. Sounds really cheesy, but human connection, so connecting people to experiences, to each other, to brands, whatever that might be. But away from work, I really enjoy sports. I do a lot of long distance running. I use the word enjoy loosely, but I enjoy an ultramarathon. It's like the best thinking time. But yeah, sports is important to me.

Speaker 1: 3:42

That you. I saw the race across scotland, which looked absolutely mental that was.

Speaker 2: 3:48

That was quite intense. That was last year 215 miles in 100 hours, just like going through the night. Very little sleep get very, very precious at moments. But I really like the bit when you get really into it with yourself in terms of the sort of it's like a mental inventory and you just get down to basics, where it's like one foot in front of the other and that is all you can focus on and you're completely alone and no one can help you and you just have to get through it by yourself and like. As horrendous as they can be, they are also incredibly fulfilling. Just some of the best experiences.

Speaker 1: 4:27

I've had that's mental. I don't think I could do that.

Speaker 2: 4:31

Yeah, it's quite an extreme piece. I think that that's fair. And each to their own different horses for courses. Right, I enjoy them Again. Use that term least sleep, I get a lot from them. It's probably a better way of putting it.

Speaker 2: 4:51

In some ways it's your form of meditation or just finding peace. No, I could not agree with that more. You know, you are quite often by yourself. It's not like a road marathon where you're surrounded by hundreds of people running and you're not necessarily running for time. You're running to finish, like run, walk or crawl, and, like I said, you really get into it mentally with yourself and sort quite a lot of stuff out. Um, just like tune out, put a good playlist in bit of fleetwood mac on your go. Yeah, I get quite excited about them until I start them and then I'm after about half a day I'm like what have I done?

Speaker 1: 5:25

so, yeah, when you get to that finish line and it's over, do you feel like a sense of accomplishment or do you feel is it? Is it almost like a hangover, like it's oh my gosh, it's over now. So what? What's next?

Speaker 2: 5:37

yeah, I think it's. Um, it's a bit of relief, definitely a sense of accomplishment, because quite often you'll have been going for you know it might have been a few days um, the longest one I've done is eight days, and in all kinds of weather. So, yeah, definitely a sense of relief, sense of achievement. Normally, when I did the one last year, I promised myself I was never going to do anything like that again, but you know full well that a week afterwards you'll be like browsing google what's next? Yeah, exactly, I've got one this year around anglesey, which is three days, uh, in august, which I am again looking forward to use that term loosely well, I wish you luck.

Speaker 1: 6:21

Thank you, I'm talking about being athletic. You are a member of the Kings Cross Steelers rugby team. Yeah, yeah, keeps you busy.

Speaker 2: 6:29

It does. So we're training at the moment. Our main season is finished, but we're back training two days a week for Bingham, which is a tournament that takes place every two years where a lot of the inclusive and gay rugby clubs from around the world are invited to take part. So this year it's in rome at the end of may. We were in canada two years ago. Kings cross sealers won the, the bingham cup, uh, two years ago. So we're back to defend. Some canadians didn't win. The canadians did not win because the kings cross sealers did, but they, they did very well, they did very well. Very nice as well. Very hospitable is that?

Speaker 2: 7:07

the word that's right, okay, yeah it seemed very nice.

Speaker 1: 7:10

What city were you in? Ottawa, nice, okay. Yeah, you're involved with sports, you're involved in the LGBTQ plus community, you're in events. All these things are very social, yeah. So let's talk about how we got to your sobriety, what led up to it, what was your life like before you got to the point where you thought, um, I need to do something here I have.

Speaker 2: 7:36

I'm 33 now. I the last time I stopped drinking I was 29, but I've been sober before that. Yeah, I've experimented with sobriety probably since 17 18, and sometimes it stuck, sometimes it didn't had a spell sober at 24 for 18 months and now it's been over four years and it's something I'm committed to and I'm not looking to make any changes. But in terms of why I got sober the last time, I think I think you know for me like life had become. It's a bit of a cliche, I think, especially within like recovery circles, but I think it had become quite unmanageable. If I'm honest, I think that I was in a position where my I felt that my personal and professional lives were imploding. I carried around a lot of shame with my drinking.

Speaker 2: 8:33

People get sober for a number of reasons. I decided I had to get sober because I couldn't handle my relationship with alcohol fundamentally and that generates a lot of shame for me because I couldn't drink like a normal person, but I also couldn't maintain sobriety. So it'd be like these two week cycles where swear off it, you'd have a big night, you'd do something that either you felt embarrassed about or sort of caused you anxiety, or you had another blackout and then and you'd swear off drinking again. But then two weeks later you do the same and it was like it's like I could time it to perfection and knew exactly what was going to happen.

Speaker 2: 9:12

But in in, it felt like throughout this time, or throughout periods of my life, like keeping a big secret and trying not to let people see it and so work or friends, or my partner, family, and it got to a point where it was just seeping everywhere, like I couldn't. I couldn't hide it. I was getting into trouble at work, I was letting people down in my personal life. I was so unhappy, you know. I remember just feeling like I was at a junction where I knew that I could either you know one way I could, I could go one of two ways. One way was to push the big red fuck it button and just like, detonate everything and just live in that and like, and knowing that I created chaos and I knowingly did that. And the other was to say this can't work for me and I have a choice and I'm going to choose to give that up and work to do that.

Speaker 1: 10:29

So that's when I stopped and how did you find the support to help you maintain that?

Speaker 2: 10:37

so I had. I've got a few friends who are in recovery one of them to whom I will always be grateful, probably about. So I stopped drinking in the February and I think it was probably about the October, november, before that. You know I I was wanting to. You know I was talking about stopping again. I have a good friend who I haven't spoken to for a while, but just like one of those friends who you can just call speaking to her, and she told me, or she invited me, to come to a meeting with her at some rooms that she goes to or went to in Soho, and I went and I liked the meeting and I liked the people and I went back a few times and that didn't get me sober but it got me on the road. That meant I was sober in the February. It got me thinking about it. So I've had some.

Speaker 2: 11:30

I've been very lucky to have some brilliant friends who can understand sobriety.

Speaker 2: 11:35

You can understand addiction and you know what it is to like really abuse, like alcohol and the unhappiness and like all those pieces that you can feel with it. I think it's difficult to understand it if you haven't experienced it, and I also say this like I have people who are close to me who suffer, who are in active addiction, um, which means they are still suffering, they're not necessarily quite in recovery and it is so frustrating and it can be like heartbreaking and like why can't someone just stop? So it's really difficult to understand. So I've had a lot of support. I've been very lucky. Just after I stopped drinking was the it was very shortly later like the first lockdown, which didn't hurt in the sense that I couldn't go out. I was never one to drink at home, I was always one to go and burn brightly in public somewhere, but it meant that I really sat with myself for a few months and sort of thought about a lot of stuff. I've been very lucky to have some great support along the way.

Speaker 1: 12:41

The support is such an important part of it. Great support along the way, the support is such an important part of it. Personally, my younger sister I only have one sister. She hasn't had a drink for, I think, over eight years now Amazing. And she sort of did it all on her own and it was she came, she got to a breaking point, but obviously I live in a different country. She didn't really have a whole lot of support at home.

Speaker 1: 13:04

The people who thought they were supporting her were sort of telling her off and telling her all the reasons why she shouldn't be drinking and how she's ruining her life and all this which, in their eyes, they believed they were supporting her. But when you look back at it, it wasn't being supportive at all and I think she has actually come a long way in. And I think she has actually come a long way in. It was a breaking point for her and she's changed her life around a hundred percent. Um, she has the most amazing life now and has taken control of it. She has herself to be thankful for because, yeah, I think you just have to find it in yourself to take that power. Congrats to your sister, that's, I know. I always say congrats like it's not, like a finish line is crossed but you know it is.

Speaker 2: 13:42

It's amazing and great to hear sister that's. I know I always say congrats like it's not like a finish line is crossed, but you know it is, it's amazing and great to hear that she's doing well. I completely agree with you. I think that in recovery you talk about reaching a rock bottom and you talk about how, like fundamentally, the only person who can help you is you, and that's what it comes down to and I think that's the really frustrating, the really hard thing when you see someone who's suffering from addiction or who is not able to break out of that cycle, is there is nothing you can do until they have learned that for themselves and until you know you, just there is nothing you can do. And I can't even tell you what that support looks, that, what the support should look like. I think that depends on the, the person. I think, for for me it was being held accountable.

Speaker 2: 14:32

I actually don't know how, I don't know how effective this was.

Speaker 2: 14:35

If you go back and ask people at the time, like how aware they were, I don't know what they would say.

Speaker 2: 14:41

Probably some were quite aware, um, but you know, I remember talking to, I remember I was seeing a sort of life slash, like business coach when I was probably about 27 and I remember like talking about something that happened at work and how, um, like some casual, like throwaway remark about going out, getting like wrecked on a Wednesday night at work event and then being out until like three o'clock in the morning and then something could happen.

Speaker 2: 15:06

If something had happened, and then you know whether something had happened, like at the work event, I just remember the coach like putting their pen down and sort of looking at me and they said you know, that's not, that's not acceptable behaviour. I was like sorry, I was telling my funny story, like what, what do you mean? And you know, I think that alcoholism or addiction is, can be incredibly selfish disease. You're quite self-centered, tends to be sort of fighting fires, like very chaotic and like very self-centered and it's very hard to see other people and other people's needs sometimes. And that's not to say that you're a bad person for not seeing them, because we just don't. So having that mirror held up to you sometimes and someone explaining to you the impact of your behavior, and I remember that conversation to this day 100, I think.

Speaker 2: 16:06

Also, by the time I stopped drinking, I was like I spoke about alcohol in the same way that you speak about the partner that you need to break up with or about a job you need to leave, and I think I've been speaking about it for months or years and saying you know, I really need to stop, and you're like just do it then, like go on, like please, you're so boring, stop talking about it and just do it, but having, yeah, that accountability do you feel that, and perhaps you did, but do you feel that having loved ones around you who are like I love you so much and I want you to change your life because of this would be, would have been or was, more effective than somebody being with around you, being like oh, just fucking stop talking about it and doing it, or let's just go and have a drink and get over yourself?

Speaker 2: 16:47

or oh, it's a tough one. I think this is a it depends on your personality type. So I'm not going to psychoanalyze myself too much, but you know I'm not I'm not a scientist. I think you have to speak to people. The best way to communicate it is to people in terms that they best understand, which is so that can be difficult to know.

Speaker 2: 17:09

Like, so for me, for someone to be like you know I really love you, like, please, like, stop doing this. That wouldn't work with me. Like, I think, probably for me, part of the um, part of the piece that I really hated myself, I really really hated myself. I felt like the biggest piece of the piece that I really hated myself. I really, really hated myself. I felt like the biggest piece of shit in the room. So, no, what, no matter what you said, I'd be like well, it literally I did not even register. So I think that you know, for me it was when I looked at, looked at my life and I was like you actually have. You know, you've got a good job, you've got a really good relationship, you've got great friends, you've got a good life. This is actually within your control. You know to to help yourself. Like I think I kind of had this narrative where you know I always chose the wrong path, where you know it was almost like predetermined.

Speaker 2: 18:08

I was trying to explain this to someone the other day um, it's quite difficult, but you know.

Speaker 2: 18:12

So you'd be on a night out, for instance, um, and it was a Tuesday. And you're on a night out on a Tuesday and it's 11 and you should be going home because you're going to work the next day and you have a little voice in your head that says it's time to go, it's the last tube soon, and you know that you're not going to. Because you're not going to, because that's just what you do, because you are just that person who stays and that person who gets another drink and maybe gets one for the stranger they've met at the bar, and you're going to leave when it's kick out time at three o'clock in the morning. And then, because this is just the way life is, and I think that you for me anyway you get to a point where you can really normalize behavior, whether it's that, whether it's blackout drinking, whether it's dangerous or reckless behavior. That's. It's a really dark state to get into and like quite hard to break yourself out of what were the things that you hated about yourself?

Speaker 2: 19:18

I just I felt so like always, less than always, that I was never good enough and that I had something to prove to everyone.

Speaker 2: 19:31

So I think that's why it was also like really devastating to me when I would like self-destruct with alcohol and like almost, it's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy when you're like well, yeah, you know, I think if I look at when I started drinking when I was like 14 or 15, when I was younger, I was like quite you probably call me like a vicious overachiever academics, sport, you know all the did quite a lot of like music and drama and everything. I was probably quite annoying, to be honest. And as I got older, I found the and I found the pressure of maintaining that like really difficult and that and like social pressures and getting older and I didn't really feel like I quite like fit in and I think you know, just decided to have a drink one day I think I was with a group of people got drunk and it felt like a bit of an escape you always hear oh well, they just started hanging out with the wrong crowd.

Speaker 1: 20:38

Is that something that you would say to be true, or do you think that's an excuse?

Speaker 2: 20:44

I think you know it depends on the person. I think that you know we all have. You know this. You're young, you have the ability to decide what you're doing, and I knew I was was wrong, um, and that it wasn't good for me. It was was also illegal. Did you ever find it enjoyable? Yeah, absolutely. I think that it was a release. When I was younger I'd been quite depressed and it was a way of just putting a pin in something for a time. And I think also what alcohol can give you, especially if you're feeling sort of isolated or lonely. It can give you that sense of connection to someone else.

Speaker 2: 21:27

There's a brilliant book written by the journalist Johan Harry called Chasing the Scream, which talks about like constructs of addiction and the war on drugs. Absolutely fascinating, would really recommend it. And one of his like central hypothesis is that the opposite of um addiction isn't sobriety, it's human connection. And so I think you know for me you're like picking up a bottle when I was like 14, 15, or just get a bit of an escape, but also to feel something with someone yeah, I get that.

Speaker 1: 22:05

How has that affected your friendships and your the social aspect of your life? Did you?

Speaker 2: 22:12

did you lose friends first of all um, I mean, when I was like in my early 20s, I was like working in bars, um, and was, I think the, the persona that I created for myself was like life and soul at the party. That was probably a bit of an extension from um, like late teens and stuff. I think that you know, I knew a lot of people would be out all the time, would be out drinking all the time, and then when I stopped, when I stopped four years ago I mean it's hard to say because there was like the lockdowns which were a bit of a sexual dampener in themselves. But I think what I found is that my natural inclination isn't to be the life and soul of the party. I'm actually quite happy just being a bit more chilled and stepped back from that, and that's not to say that that outlook can't change over time. I mean, it's not to say that it wasn't a organic outlook back then, but as a result, now my social circle is much smaller.

Speaker 2: 23:15

I think I look for, you know, what I want to find socially is like that sense of connection to people, but I don't find it through alcohol now. So I have I don't have like the drinking buddies who I probably wasn't really. I didn't have much in common and I would say hi to, and you'd have the most amazing time when you were pissed, but you couldn't really remember why. Um, so now it's like people with like shared interests or maybe personality or a sense of humor or something there. So it tends to be a bit more of a sort of deeper friendship, but I've got less of them and you could very well be.

Speaker 1: 23:50

You're still a life of the party.

Speaker 2: 23:51

Probably if you spoke to some of your friends now, I mean I'll take that, uh, but I, yeah, I do quite like a nine o'clock bedtime. So, yeah, I think one thing that I am I find really difficult socially. This sounds really I don't, this probably sounds really cheesy, maybe it's a wanky, but that having a knowing, having a voice for myself, I think you know I have no issue sitting here having this conversation with you, knowing that you know, maybe like someone might listen to it and that exposure. But if you put me in a room of people and ask me to voice my opinion about something, even though I've got plenty of opinions and plenty to say for myself, I find that really difficult. That's something that, in sobriety, I'm having to like work through how to put myself out there a bit more without having like 10 points of cider. So that's been a big change.

Speaker 1: 24:45

What was it like when you first started going out to social events?

Speaker 2: 24:49

after you decided, you know what I'm, I'm gonna stay away from alcohol, were you anxious to explain to people I'm not having a drink no, I get anxious about what I'm doing with my hands if I'm out with a group, mainly because I think I was gonna say back in the day I'd be holding like two drinks. So because you know stress having to queue for that bar. I've been to events when I don't know people and I've stayed for 10 minutes and I've left because I just couldn't handle it and like, even though you can rationalise it and you're like, you know it's fine and but I haven't been able to handle that anxiety so I've left and it's got easier. I don't find a need to explain myself to people. It's a really interesting one in that people take varying degrees of like not ownership but they feel quite comfortable asking you about, like, why you don't drink. Sometimes I'm quite taken aback by it. Sometimes I'm quite happy to be like.

Speaker 2: 25:47

I think the thing is, at the end of the day, labels are just ways in which other people can understand us, whether we're, you know, whatever that label is. Say, for someone to say like alcoholic, I mean if it makes people more comfortable or put in easier terms, it's like. You know, I have a really unhealthy relationship with alcohol. Like, think of it like an allergy, like some people are just not meant to drink, and I'm one of them, like fundamentally. But if you need to call that an alcoholic to understand it, that's fine. I don't mind if people ask depending on what I'm feeling at the time. Depends on what I tell them. Sure.

Speaker 1: 26:21

Who's your biggest fan?

Speaker 2: 26:26

Oh, you put me on the spot with that one. I don't like that question. I was going to say myself, but that's not true, that's what I was hoping you were going to say. No, I don't know. I was going to say myself to be funny because that's a defence mechanism, but I actually don't know. Yeah, I've got some good people in my life I'm very happy with good, so you feel supportive.

Speaker 2: 26:49

You're supported all the time, or in terms of my sobriety yeah, I mean the thing is is that I'm not really sure about that one because I don't feel like anyone tries to undermine my sobriety. But at the same time, you know, if someone it's very rare that someone is like, oh you can have one to me, but I think now these days I could try to really like own my sobriety much more. So it's not like, uh, it's just part of who I am like now and you know, don't put pressure on it these days. Like if one day I decide to have a drink, I'll forgive myself for that, that's fine, but you know, for now, like it doesn't serve me. Yeah, I'm not gonna do that. It's amazing the importance that you can attribute to putting some liquid into your body that must be different in different situations.

Speaker 1: 27:41

I mean, you're in a rugby team, so if you go to the pub to celebrate after one evening, everyone's gonna be drinking. It's gonna be a very social event. In the beginning that must have felt like pressure on you.

Speaker 2: 27:53

I didn't feel pressure because I knew what was better for me. I definitely felt anxiety because you'd be like, oh, I don't, especially when I didn't really know people and you're trying to have a conversation. You're sort of standing there and you're like, you feel like the most boring person in the world. But I think, at the same time, I'm very happy. People do ask me, you know, if you go on nights out and stuff, and I love a night out um, a bit rarer these days, but I am very happy to go for a dance until three or four o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 2: 28:26

However, um, firstly, sober hangovers are real. I feel like the next day like I've been hit by a bus and but also it's very much the people who you go with who make it. Like if you go out and you're not, you're not feeling the mood in that group, then it's not going to work for me and like I'm probably going to go home. I mean, that's not on them, but sometimes you're just feeling it, sometimes you're not. If you go out and it's a great mood and with a great group of people and you're having a laugh, like it's not about being drunk, it's about having a laugh sure, yeah, enjoying the moment yeah, 100, and again it's that like connection piece if somebody approached you and said you know what I'm really struggling with this addiction, I know your story.

Speaker 1: 29:14

What would your advice be to them?

Speaker 2: 29:17

this depends what they're asking. Really, I think, if they're struggling, I think, as I said earlier, no one, no one will stop unless it's what they want to do, unless they really want to do that for themselves. Like it's the most, it's like very, maybe like humbling is the wrong word. But that bit when you're like you know what I'm done, fighting this, like you know, I couldn't moderate my drinking. I tried, it was so stressful trying to think about like how many I'd had, how many waters I had. Then I forgot because I just got too pissed.

Speaker 2: 29:48

I think the moment when you just accept that it's not for you, but you have to accept that no one can force that on you and unfortunately, I think that's why you know, a lot of people experience like a sort of rock bottom moment which can be really quite horrific in terms of sort of impact or what happens, or like drama, or I mean quite sort of traumatic pieces to come back from. But it is about being at the bottom and the only way being up. I think if someone, if someone comes to you asking for advice, my advice is amazing, if you want to do it here to support you, if there's anything I can do if you ever want to come to a meeting, like my friend who took me to a meeting I will remember forever, but at the same time, like it's something only you can do for yourself. You can't rely on anyone to do it for you.

Speaker 1: 30:36

So we're both members of the LGBT community. We like to have a great time. How have the LGBTQ community embraced sobriety? Are there support groups in that community?

Speaker 2: 30:55

Yeah, absolutely. I mentioned that my friend took me to a meeting in Soho and this location hosts a number of meetings for different groups, like 12-step meetings.

Speaker 2: 31:07

so whether it's like AA or NA, like Narcotics Anonymous or just a whole range of groups, and one of the groups that I really enjoyed going to was AA, but for LGBTQ plus people, I think, because I mean for me like a lot of the reasons why I drank were linked to a sexuality and so the question I was going to ask actually, yeah yeah, and being in a room full of people who had shared or similar like life experiences or some similar life experiences just made me feel comfortable that I could relate to people, that I could engage with them on a different level and actually that really helped me to accept my own alcoholism and to look at how I could move forwards it's a really good point, because coming out is a stressful time and it can be traumatic.

Speaker 1: 32:05

Put that to one side and then you're sat in a room with a bunch of maybe straight people who don't understand being gay and coming out in that whole experience, and then you're. So you, you're battling two things there and your, your anxiety would be through the roof. So I totally understand how a support group amongst your own peers would be much more comfortable.

Speaker 2: 32:25

Yeah, I think also, you know, if you look at the stats, there's a lot a number of studies that will tell you that. I think it's like one in six members of the LGBTQ plus community say that they drink every day. That's not to say they have a problem, but comparatively, one in ten people who aren't part of the LGBTQ plus community would say the same. So there's a higher increase of people who do consistently drink more, like every day, than than other communities. And I think that you know we've seen statistics that talk about how members of the LGBTQ plus community are more likely to experience negative mental health than other communities, which will make them more predisposed to substance or alcohol abuse. We I have, you know, like I said, each their own.

Speaker 2: 33:24

I think that sometimes there's a bit of like a gold standard that perhaps we we think we need to aim for is like part of the community in terms of being out and having a great time and like what that great time should look like. But at the end of the day, if it makes you happy, great. If it doesn't, then yeah, it's an interesting one. There's also a number of charities. So, for instance, like london friend, a LGBTQ plus charity, I think the longest the oldest LGBTQ plus charity in the UK, set up just over 50 years ago. They have a drug and alcohol service called Antidote which offers like a range of counselling programs and services, like support services for those members of the community who are suffering from substance abuse or addiction. The work they do is incredible. I absolutely suggest to someone who is struggling that they might reach out to them.

Speaker 1: 34:12

What are three signs of resilience that you've seen yourself?

Speaker 2: 34:16

I'm trying not to be sarky in my comments, because it's one thing that I've my comments because it's a you know one thing that I've. One of the reasons why I've really enjoyed doing these long distance, long distance running, is because it gives you something tangible to measure your achievements against. So when you're having a really shit day or a bad day, and that works on top of you. You know this is really difficult, but then you're like but also remember that time you ran across Scotland, you can probably write this email that's quite nice, uh. So I think that just, you know, put one foot in front of the other. That's something that I've got.

Speaker 2: 34:49

Do look after myself now, which I think is a sign of resilience. I know what's good for me, I know it's bad for me, and I tend to choose what's good for me these days, unless it's like a tub of ice cream and then probably not happening, and I think that I don't know if this is a sign of resilience. But you know, I think, compared to four years ago or five years ago, I think my, um, my life is like, built on like a house of matches, house of cards, and you know, just tap it whereas now it's much more stable, much more resilient and I think, as someone asked me about what the nicest thing about being sober is as I actually the best thing about it I used to black out like all the time and to the extent I was like, if I didn't black out, I said, wow, I clearly wasn't drunk and you know, you could lose like five, six hours or more of of your night and I remember just saying it's so nice to know, like how you behave. And so if you, if you know that I'm allowed to swear, yeah, you can say whatever you you want.

Speaker 2: 36:01

If I have an arsehole to someone, I'm like I know that I am like fundamentally and I can own that behavior and I can choose to apologize if I'd like to, whereas, like back in the day, if I was like I just wouldn't know about it but I'd have that like as I think you just have all that anxiety and I probably just wouldn't have spoken to that person for six months as any rational human being would do out of anxiety. So I think just having ownership of everything that you do and being comfortable with it, and that really allows that sort of resilience. I'm like very happy with how I am now.

Speaker 1: 36:36

Even I don't think I'm perfect, but I can see myself for what I am and you have control yeah yeah, I like how you mentioned the house of cards or matches, because I interviewed an American singer called Ty Herndon and he's recovering and he talks about the ability to build his village now brick by brick and make it strong. It's just interesting that you sort of said the same thing.

Speaker 2: 37:07

Yeah, that's really interesting. Also, I don't feel special now. I think also, having had that sort of shakiness such long time, it's really nice to know that you're on something stable, but also that you've worked hard for it. I think the easiest thing is just to to press that button and you're in control.

Speaker 1: 37:38

You're in the driver's seat. Yeah, absolutely amazing. Let's move into some quick fire questions. This might make you more nervous than some of the questions I've already asked, probably find out.

Speaker 2: 37:52

Yeah, what am I going to find out about myself?

Speaker 1: 37:58

all righty, let's begin quick fire questions um what unusual skill or talent do you wish you had?

Speaker 2: 38:05

for some reason I really want to balloon model as in like model balloons as in like blow up balloons and make animals yeah okay like don't ask me why that's, it's been in the forefront of my mind. But yeah, that is I mean on top of my mind. But yeah, that is I mean on top of that. Obviously I'd like to do all the things, like be able to sing and draw, but just really fancy being able to make balloon animals at the moment.

Speaker 1: 38:30

You should look that up. I'm sure there's a course somewhere. I hope so. Most interesting place you've ever visited.

Speaker 2: 38:37

This is a recent one. I went to Sri Lanka over Christmas. I thought Sigiriya Rock was amazing.

Speaker 1: 38:42

If you could snoop through one person's private life, who would it be?

Speaker 2: 38:48

I'm thinking of a couple of friends of mine who never tell me anything about their lives, but that would be. I'm not going to name them. No, they're a bit aggressive. Do you know what? Actually, I think this is gonna sound like such a wanky answer, but I think I'd probably just like leave alone. I don't think I would, given the option, you know. I think like well, we've all got shit, just you crack on. Do you know what?

Speaker 1: 39:13

I mean, what's the most outrageous thing you've ever done for love or friendship?

Speaker 2: 39:19

oh, had to add in love or friendship. You could just say the most outrageous thing you've ever done, and we could have had a half an hour conversation on that. Okay, buckle up. No, so I have had a couple of misdemeanors in my life which were alcohol related. These ones are maybe amusing, they're not too dark.

Speaker 2: 39:39

Once I ended up walking naked across Watley Bridge at four o'clock in the morning, like butt naked, having thrown my clothes into the Thames, because I left a bar in Soho at three o'clock in the morning and I was in a very bad mood and my friend, who was worried about how drunk I was and so decided to walk me home to where I lived in Elephant Castle, and I was so determined to be left alone that I decided I was going to. The best way to get him to leave me alone was to embarrass him into leaving me alone. So I told him that if he didn't leave me alone that's going to take off all my clothes, and so he didn't leave me alone and so got to the Strand and I was like right off they go. Yeah, that happened.

Speaker 1: 40:26

Craziest rumor you've ever heard about yourself.

Speaker 2: 40:28

I feel like I'm a terrible interviewee and I don't think I've heard a rumor about myself, at least one that wasn't true have you ever had a celebrity crush? Oh yeah, definitely when I was younger, really like Colin Farrell, jim McGregor, yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:48

Yeah, okay, I get the vibes. They're very similar.

Speaker 2: 40:52

One thing you wish you could change about society I do kind of wish that we could care less about what other people are doing. Just focus on yourself. Be the best you can Like. Why you? Why do you give a shit about what someone else is doing if it doesn't affect you?

Speaker 1: 41:09

what life event has shaped you the most?

Speaker 2: 41:11

I know it's like been topic of this, but I think, probably getting sober, it was at a time when I, in the same month, I started my own business with a friend and I also got my dog, and I don't think it's coincidence that all three are still going if that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 41:29

Sure. How do you define happiness? I?

Speaker 2: 41:31

think it's just being happy with what you've got. You know you don't. You're not looking for something that you don't have Best relationship advice ever given. I think the best advice, and this can be applied to like relationships, romantic or like friendships just don't be a dick, do you know? I mean, I love that. How do you cope with stress? Exercise or eating, depending on what we're doing?

Speaker 1: 41:55

generally, exercise does social media affect your mental health? Yeah, do you know? I think it does.

Speaker 2: 42:03

I find I think more that I'm more inclined to like doom scroll and then I'm not sleeping as well as I should in those pieces. But I don't look at social media and I don't think it. I don't think I focus on social media in terms of. You know, I don't benchmark my life against social media if you were a kitchen appliance, which would you be?

Speaker 2: 42:25

spatula easy. I think they're just like incredibly versatile, like people need more spatulas in their kitchens. To be quite honest, it's true, what can't you use it for? Do you know I?

Speaker 2: 42:35

mean love it weirdest dream you've ever had I mean we're not getting into that conversation, surely? I used to have the same dream, which was I was like, so like waiting on a table and I'd like take their order and then go and put it into the till and then I'd fall asleep at the till. Then I'd wake up in the dream and be very stressed about like where they were at in the service cycle that was a constant one. Most used app on your mobile probably Instagram, or, yeah, instagram, whatsapp, spotify, maybe Spotify maybe.

Speaker 1: 43:09

What's your favourite pick up line?

Speaker 2: 43:10

It's been a very long time since I've been picked up, so I couldn't possibly say Name three objects in your nightstand. Books, more books, um, and like what is actually in, it's just like a load of mess. I've got like a million lighters in there your favorite number seven, me too.

Speaker 2: 43:42

It's a good, strong number do you have a nickname, not that I'm aware of when I was younger no, I'm not going down this road when I was very young and just quite acerbic, which maybe a bit still now, but I had a nickname, poisoned Dwarf, which I understand was a Dallas reference or something like that.

Speaker 1: 44:02

Favorite song at the moment I'm liking.

Speaker 2: 44:04

I can't really say it's a song but I'm liking generally, like Pink and Joe Leper a lot, the wildest thing you've ever done that nobody knows about, until now, until. Kevjet. I think I've broadcast like everything that's remotely interesting about my life ever. I did feature once on BBC Breakfast News like directing traffic in central London.

Speaker 1: 44:28

That's another great story and possibly another podcast, thank you. Have you ever had a paranormal experience? No, do you believe in life after death? Well, if something happens, what does the word friendship mean to you? It's like understanding and acceptance. What does being a friendship mean to you? It's like understanding and acceptance. What does being a man mean to you?

Speaker 2: 44:50

I don't think it's any different to like, just like. For me, it's like being a good person. It's like being comfortable with who you are and how you interact with other people and being able to take ownership of how you behave and be happy with it.

Speaker 1: 45:07

Describe yourself in three words.

Speaker 2: 45:11

I don't like these questions. They make me uncomfortable. I think that I'm probably quite guarded. I think I'm quite funny and I think I can be quite intense. What makes you happy? Peace, like the opposite of chaos. So yeah, out running, that's like happy place.

Speaker 1: 45:29

What advice would you give your 14 year old self? Just?

Speaker 2: 45:33

do it all and learn from it. Yeah, it's all. I don't really in the same way, like I'm not big on regrets because it's all part of and it's such it's a cliche, but it's all part of how we get to where we are now. So I just be like it's you gotta feel, what you gotta feel, you and you.

Speaker 1: 45:52

It's something you have to go through name a book that had a positive impact to your life.

Speaker 2: 45:58

Matthew Todd's book uh, straight jacket. I found it very difficult read. It's about society's legacy of shame that a lot of LGBTQ plus people grew up with and looking at how we internalise that and how that may manifest itself in our behaviours. I think for me that spoke a lot. I saw so much of myself and my behaviours with alcohol, particularly in that book. Really difficult read, but really helps me to understand myself and I would. It also includes a huge number of resources available to people who might be struggling or who might want to learn more or who might have a friend who's struggling or family member. So I would, without getting too on my high horse about it, um, I would really recommend anyone. Whether you're gay, straight, whichever community you're part of, I really recommend everyone to have a read of it Amazing.

Speaker 1: 46:55

Thanks, Al. I loved our conversation. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.