Death touches us all, yet it remains shrouded in mystery and often fear. But what if we could peel back the curtains of the unknown with someone who witnesses life's final act daily? Hospice nurse and TikTok sensation Julie McFadden joins us to impart her wisdom about the end of life, sharing candid tales from her emotionally rich career to the personal revelations that have shaped her understanding of death. Her journey from ICU nursing to becoming a vocal advocate for quality end-of-life care reveals the transformative power of empathy and education.
Navigating the complexities of the hospice care system, Julie brings to light the emotional and financial challenges families face, discussing disparities in care and the systemic changes needed. Her insights challenge us to confront our own perceptions of death and to cultivate a deeper comprehension of what dying naturally entails. Through the lens of her experience, we're offered a heartfelt glimpse into the silent struggles within American healthcare and the profound impact of patients' stories on those who care for them.
Wrapping up with an exploration of life's ultimate questions, Julie shares thought-provoking anecdotes on end-of-life phenomena, the controversies surrounding medical aid in dying, and her personal reflections on finding contentment. As laughter mingles with lessons of legacy, Julie's perspective invites us to appreciate the beauty and humor that can be found even in life's final moments. With anticipation mounting for her upcoming book release, our conversation with Julie McFadden is set to shift perspectives on life, death, and the human connection that binds us all.
Death touches us all, yet it remains shrouded in mystery and often fear. But what if we could peel back the curtains of the unknown with someone who witnesses life's final act daily? Hospice nurse and TikTok sensation Julie McFadden joins us to impart her wisdom about the end of life, sharing candid tales from her emotionally rich career to the personal revelations that have shaped her understanding of death. Her journey from ICU nursing to becoming a vocal advocate for quality end-of-life care reveals the transformative power of empathy and education.
Navigating the complexities of the hospice care system, Julie brings to light the emotional and financial challenges families face, discussing disparities in care and the systemic changes needed. Her insights challenge us to confront our own perceptions of death and to cultivate a deeper comprehension of what dying naturally entails. Through the lens of her experience, we're offered a heartfelt glimpse into the silent struggles within American healthcare and the profound impact of patients' stories on those who care for them.
Wrapping up with an exploration of life's ultimate questions, Julie shares thought-provoking anecdotes on end-of-life phenomena, the controversies surrounding medical aid in dying, and her personal reflections on finding contentment. As laughter mingles with lessons of legacy, Julie's perspective invites us to appreciate the beauty and humor that can be found even in life's final moments. With anticipation mounting for her upcoming book release, our conversation with Julie McFadden is set to shift perspectives on life, death, and the human connection that binds us all.
Welcome to another exciting episode of KevJet, the podcast. I'm excited to introduce to you this week's guest hospice nurse, julie. She has taken over social media by storm with over 3 million followers by teaching the public about death and dying.
Speaker 2:I went to go see my nieces. They were on TikTok and they're like TikTok age. Right, I'm 41. I was 39 at the time and I just didn't think anything of TikTok. But I got on TikTok to watch their little dances. I was like, maybe I'll just make a few videos and try TikTok. And I had like five things I knew I really wanted to talk about like five different topics. So I made these very bad videos, five of them and then I posted like throughout the day and by the fourth day one went viral. The reason why I did this is just to educate about death and dying, to try to change the way we look at death and dying through education. Then I got a book deal and it took two years to write. It's hard as hell to write a book. Who knew? Probably everyone.
Speaker 1:I ask her what some of the number one questions are that she gets asked.
Speaker 2:Is dying painful? And the answer is no. I'm talking about dying a natural death on hospice. Dying itself is not painful. Now, diseases you can die from, diseases you die from, are painful and cause symptoms and they can be really symptomatic and all the things. But like our bodies are built to die, our bodies know how to do it biologically, physiologically, metabolically. Systems are in place. So that's why education is so important. Hence my channel, or my book, or this podcast. You know learning about it. You don't know what you don't know. I feel like there are certain circumstances in the ICU where we are really missing the mark and we are really doing a disservice to humans by keeping them alive, by not educating the family about what truly is happening with their loved one.
Speaker 1:We discuss the frustrations of the health care system in America, and Julie doesn't hold back.
Speaker 2:We don't provide that. So the families are like, well, who does it then? And we're like, oh, you guys do it. And the family's like we have to work because we need insurance and money and all the things right. Like no one could not work to come and money and all the things right. Like no one. No one could not work to come and stay with here with him 24 hours. So there's no one to do the work and nothing in our healthcare system provides that. Nothing. There's, no, there's. There's a missing link. We don't provide in-home care. It's just hard. Our medical system is like effed. Can we swear You're gonna have to edit this one? Huh, this is one thing that could like really fire me up. You can't die well in America unless you're rich, and like rich. Rich, not like kind of because no one has enough money to pay for in-home caregiving and we don't provide it. Julie's advice to all you listeners out there pay attention, start thinking about how you would feel if you knew you were going to die soon, right?
Speaker 2:We all are all going to die. But like I like to say, like, if you knew you were going to die in six months, like, contemplate that, like what would that mean for you? What would, what would, what would you want to change in your life If, if, if, anything. We prepare for everything in life, so why are we not preparing for this? If you don't want to do it for yourself, do it for the people you love.
Speaker 1:After a pretty heavy conversation we move into KevJet's famous quick fire questions.
Speaker 2:Oh God, that's so good. Oh, that can make me cry. I'm not going to say my real answer because it's too personal. You can erase that. I'll tell you, but then I'll tell a slightly different one, okay, okay. Tune in to this fascinating conversation with hospice nurse Julie and of course we talk about her new book, which is coming out in June, June 11th baby, so close.
Speaker 1:Welcome to KevJet the podcast, julie McFadden, also known as the hospice nurse Julie.
Speaker 2:Hello.
Speaker 1:Welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you, nice to finally meet you. This is great.
Speaker 1:I know We've been chatting online. I love what you're doing. It's so amazing and it's grabbing the attention of so many people. In fact, over 3 million followers on social media.
Speaker 2:Yeah, crazy, right. Yeah, I mean, how did that begin? What made you just think I'm going to start this, so sorry, why I pause is because I was just talking to a friend today who was like no, I remember like for a year before you started anything, you were talking about how you just love hospice and you want to start educating people about it and like I fully don't remember that I was like I did. She was like, yeah, I can remember we'd go on long walks, you talk about it, so. So my story is kind of changing now, cause I used to be like I don't really know, like my. I went to go see my nieces. They were on Tik TOK and they're like Tik TOK age, right, I'm 41. I was 39 at the time and I just didn't think anything of TikTok. But I got on TikTok to watch their little dances. And I don't know if you're on TikTok, but the more you get on TikTok, the more you're going to be on.
Speaker 1:It's addictive, I know.
Speaker 2:So then I started seeing people my age you know talk about like gardening and like space, like stuff I was interested in, and I was like, oh, there's like adults here, there's people doing other things. So I had had it in my head that I want to go somewhere. I was thinking a podcast, because it's just my arena, but I was like maybe I'll just make a few videos and try TikTok. And I had like five things I knew I really wanted to talk about, like five different topics. So I made these very bad videos five of them and then I posted like throughout the day and by the fourth day one went viral and I had like 10,000 followers overnight and then it kind of just kept snowballing from there and it really took on a mind of its own, I feel like, and now I'm just sort of trying to ride the wave, I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1:Do you feel a bit of pressure?
Speaker 2:I do now. I didn't for a long time. It's been three years now, for a long time. Whenever I do start feeling pressure because now it feels like there's a lot riding on it for some reason I think because it's my brain. So now I try to always go back to like my original reason why I did this and it's just to educate about death and dying, to try to change the way we look at death and dying through education. So whenever I start like feeling like overwhelmed or like I'm too big for my britches, like this isn't that I mean it's important, but like I'm not that important and my whole goal is just to educate people, so I always just try to bring it back to that so I don't get too overwhelmed.
Speaker 1:I love it, and and so you've written a book which is coming out in June.
Speaker 2:Yes, that is why I'm getting stressed out.
Speaker 1:It's called nothing to fear demystifying death, to live more fully.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's a little baby.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so did somebody suggest you know what you should write this book, or was it always in the back of your mind? You wanted to write a book?
Speaker 2:No, and I'm not really even a reader. That's why it's been so hard for me to like get on, not get on board. But it's just been such a different world and it's taken two years in the making and the reason why it happened again. This is all like this. It feels like it just like happened to me. So, six months into the TikTok thing, newsweek wrote an article about me, without even telling me they published it and next thing, you know, that article went like mega, mega, mega, worldwide viral.
Speaker 2:And because of that article I got a lot of attention from like other people and a literary agency reached out to me being like, hey, do you want to write a book? Or we can help you try to write a book, get a book deal. And I was originally like, no, I don't know how to write a book, I don't. This is not. I didn't know what was going on here. But they helped me understand that, like not everyone wants to watch a one minute video. People want something tangible to look at and read and use for reference. And I was like, okay, as long as it's going to be an educational book, like for the masses, like easy to read, anyone could pick it up, read one chapter. If they need to not like sit down and read a novel, I'll do it. So that's how I started. And then I got a book deal and it took two years to write. It's hard as hell to write a book who knew probably everyone, and now it's coming out in June.
Speaker 1:That's very exciting and, and like you said, it's something you can actually hand a patient or you can hand a family member.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want it to be so it is. It's 240 pages, which to me is like not longer than it needs to be, but that's like a book book, you know, but made it so you can literally just look at the, the title page, the chapters and look at what you need in the moment and you can start from chapter three or just go to chapter nine and it's going to make sense and you'll get the information you need. And it is an educational book. So it is like a helpful book to learn about things. But I also added in my stories and like different things that have happened to me, so it's not like reading a textbook.
Speaker 1:I had a little sneak peek and I really enjoyed it and I Did you read it, Billy?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:I did and I have a few questions and if you're not able to answer them just yet, we can skip along. But I really did enjoy it and obviously it's something that's close to my heart and it's easy to read for somebody who's learning about death and dying for the first time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's how I wanted it. I'm glad you said that. Thank you, anyone could read it, not like not other medical professionals, exactly.
Speaker 1:Exactly it's. It's not done in a scientific way, it's done it's. It's very black and white and I love that because anybody can pick that up and they'll understand the process.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love that, so you go into it through. So, facts, facts and myths about hospice care. So why don't you just call out some facts and some myths about hospice care, because it's a bit different over here in England compared to where you are in America. But let's just have a go.
Speaker 2:I know I was just going to say it's probably different depending on what country you're in, Right? So what I'll maybe try to do is like stick with facts and myths about death and dying too.
Speaker 2:So like you know, like many people think all, probably all hospices across the world, or even just end of life, that medical professionals like just medicate until they die. You know they stopped feeding my loved one, they starved them and they medicatedate until they die. You know they stopped feeding my loved one, they starved them and they medicated them until they died. That is 100% false, not true, not real, false fact. I can see how you could think that, but truly what's happening is at the end of life, people stop eating and drinking anyway. So one, they already don't want food and water or they lose the ability to even swallow or eat food and water because they have no strength to actually swallow. Now, if anyone on my hospital, you know anyone on hospice, if they're asking for food and water and they can physically take it, by all means have all the water you want, but we have to risk if they are way out, if they actually want it and then if they actually can physically do it. So that's one word, whatever, just starving them to death, which is a common theme people think we are doing. And then the over-medicating. I mean I also can see how that can happen, or not how that can happen, but how people can think that one.
Speaker 2:I have seen many people on hospice die a natural death with literally no medication and they are still unconscious, they're still lethargic, they're still not waking up and that is because they're in the dying process and their body knows how to do it and it's doing things to make them that way. So it is not necessarily because of medications, but also also we need to make sure someone dying is comfortable and if they are showing a sign that they are not comfortable, we need to medicate, and a lot of times that's the one thing people need to let go. It's like I think people could existentially kind of be hanging on, lingering, lingering, lingering for whatever reason, right. And then we give them a little morphine, their central nervous system relaxes and they're like and they relax and let go. But when people see that they're like you killed him.
Speaker 1:And that's one of my questions, because some family members are against medication at the end of life, and so how do you deal with that?
Speaker 2:Education, just educate, educate, educate. I mean sometimes, if people really have a distrust for the healthcare system, which many, many, many, many Americans do, I'm sure it's the same there. They just have a distrust in the healthcare system and healthcare providers because of the history, because of what they've gone through.
Speaker 1:And everybody knows the bad stories. They don't know the good stories because of what they've gone through and everybody knows the bad stories.
Speaker 2:They don't know the good stories. I know and of course, like, addiction is a real thing and a real problem in the world, right? So that's the first thing people think about. Well, we don't want to get them addicted, we don't want to. And there's just so much education that goes into that and most of the time I can educate like in one visit and people are kind of like okay, cool, yeah, we're good, we can get medications.
Speaker 2:And sometimes you can tell right away I'm sure you've run into this too, where you can just tell it's like butting heads, and I'm going to still meet people where they're at, I'm not going to push and push and push Cause then I'm just like everybody else that. And then they think I'm trying to get my agenda in there and they're and I'm not listening to them. So I will usually say a little. If I can tell it's like that, I'll just say a little thing and then go. But you know what you guys are the boss Like we'll, we'll figure it out as we go and then we'll just kind of keep it as the trust gets built.
Speaker 2:They'll see that, like, at the end of the day, people don't want their loved ones to suffer. If you ask them what they want, they say I don't, I just want them to be comfortable. Okay, ask them what they want. They say I don't, I just want them to be comfortable. Okay, great, we can do that. Maybe they'll need medication, maybe they won't, but if they do, here's what I know. It is literally clinically proven, clinically proven that the morphine we give at the end of life, which is usually minuscule, does not hasten or quicken someone's death. All it does is make someone dying more peaceful. So let's do it.
Speaker 2:Like what's the problem, you know Exactly.
Speaker 1:I know what is the number one question you get from your viewers online and is it different to the question that you get from meeting your patients for the first time?
Speaker 2:Let's see, Wow. The number one question I think most people are concerned about is my loved one or am I depending on who it is? Am I going to suffer? Or is my loved one going to suffer, or did they suffer, so like they're meeting me after their loved one?
Speaker 1:died.
Speaker 2:It's all about suffering. And are they suffering and are they going to suffer? Is dying painful? And the answer is no. I mean dying itself. I mean from a hospice nurse perspective. I mean, if you get hit by a bus, that's probably not painful either. Actually, you're probably going to not be conscious. But you know I'm talking about dying a natural death on hospice. Dying itself is not painful. Now, diseases you can die from, diseases you die from, are painful and cause symptoms, and they can be really symptomatic and all the things. But like our bodies are built to die, our bodies know how to do it Biologically, physiologically, metabolically. Systems are in place.
Speaker 1:It's a natural thing.
Speaker 2:It's a natural thing phase of life where they're doing a bunch of weird things. Families are not used to seeing it and they automatically think their loved ones suffered because they were unconscious. They're. They looked weird, their eyes were open, their mouths were open, there was no food and water given. They breathed funny. Their breath sounded gurgly or wet. How could they not be suffering? And it's just because they're not one. They don't know that's normal and they don't know why it's normal. So that's why education is so important. Hence my channel, or my book, or this podcast, you know learning about it to learn what normal is.
Speaker 1:It's so important and lots of times when a family member comes into a situation where they have to deal with this, it's the first time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they don't know. You don't know what you don't know.
Speaker 1:That's true. That's so true. So, since we're talking about palliative care, we're talking about your book. Tell me about Scott.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, Scott. So Scott and all names and details are changed, everybody. So so this, this, this is one of um, one of the stories I like to tell that that did happen to me, but of course, like things are changed for privacy reasons Um, but he was one of the patients that really um got me thinking about wanting to become a hospice nurse because I was an ICU nurse, which is intensive care unit it's a different type of nursing for about eight years and Scott was one of the patients in the ICU that really got me thinking. Like man, I feel like there are certain circumstances in the ICU where we are really missing the mark and we are really doing a disservice to humans by keeping them alive, by not educating the family about what truly is happening with their loved one. You know, he came into the hospital with a terminal cancer, so he had pancreatic cancer and he was getting a surgery because of the cancer and normally that surgery is very helpful and they're in it kind of in and out of the hospital, Everything goes okay Somewhat, and then they start on their journey of chemo and radiation and they're still likely going to die, probably within a year or two maybe, but he didn't have a clear cut thing. He had a complication after complication after complication and he kept he was my patient this whole time in the ICU. I was there. He was there probably for six months and it was just getting worse and worse and worse and worse. The whole time he was intubated on multiple machines keeping his body alive, different organs failing at different times. It was just horrific.
Speaker 2:And I finally said during rounds where, like, the doctor was there, the family was there, his husband was there, that we should have a family meeting to talk about, you know, next steps and future planning, kind of like wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Like can we please talk about what's happening? And I was too afraid to like I kept it very vague because I was a young nurse and I was afraid to say anything, but I knew we needed to talk about something, because Scott was not going to get better and even if he did, he still had pancreatic cancer that he never dealt with yet. Right, it was like this is too much. What are we doing here?
Speaker 2:So what I realized in that moment when I spoke up was that like I had a voice and people would listen to it, because everyone in that rounds, including his husband, were like yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. It was like, oh shit, because now. Now I'm like we're really doing this, OK, because I had never done that before. So we had this family meeting the social worker was there, Doctor was there, Husband there, and we basically just gave him the facts about what was truly happening, which was he's dying and he's probably not going to get better. And if you know that, what do you think he would want?
Speaker 2:You know, and he was like he would want to go, he wouldn't want to be like this. So after that meeting, we turn off the machines and he died that day. He died before the end of my shift and even saying it is like so I knew I was doing the right thing. I knew we needed to do more of that in the ICU, but because I was just a young nurse and it was the first time I had done it and it happened so quickly, it was like really hard for me after that shift not to leave there and be like I just killed a guy. Like wow.
Speaker 2:But through time and you know, I realized like okay, this was, this was I helped this person, even though it felt, even though he died, I I helped this person and that got me onto this, this, this truth, this truth train of like being in the ICU and being like we need to tell the truth, let's talk about this, let's talk about this, let's talk about this. And then, after a few years of that, I was like you know what? I want to go to be a hospice nurse. If people are going to die, which we all are, why not give them the chance to know they're dying and die at home peacefully, with their family and friends around them. If that's what they want, right, but we need to tell them it's an option because we don't.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's Scott.
Speaker 1:I love the story of Scott I know, I love it too. What are some of the issues that you still face in hospice today?
Speaker 2:I don't know about you guys, but here in America the biggest thing that I run into at work is families not having caregivers. So we as a hospice team, as a hospice company, never, ever, ever, no one in America. And if they do, they're committing Medicare fraud. But we do not offer custodial care, which means like changing if they're bed bound, like being with a loved one 24-7 to care for them, because you're going to need that on hospice eventually. We don't provide that. So families are like, well, who does it then? And we're like, oh, you guys do it. And the family's like we have to work because we need insurance to and money and all the things. Right, like no one. No one could not work to come and stay with here with him 24 hours. So there's no one to do the work.
Speaker 2:And most people are middle-class family or, if not, if not lower than middle-class, so they don't have money to pay for someone to be there and nothing in our healthcare system provides that. Nothing. There's no, there's no. There's a missing link. We don't provide in-home care. So even if they were to go to like a nursing home or a skilled nursing facility, that still costs a crap ton of money, even if you have insurance. So there's just that big missing link and it's so, so hard.
Speaker 2:It makes me so sad to see how most Americans even like even Americans that would make a decent living, I think, or make a decent living still can't afford stuff like this. And they have insurance, they have all the things. They still can't afford it. It's horrific. And the other thing I see a lot of is elderly people are people with, like chronic terminal illnesses like dementia, alzheimer's, parkinson's. They fall through the cracks big time because it's such a difficult, strange disease that takes so long to have for someone to deteriorate that they don't meet criteria for a lot of the helpful services because they're not like bad enough yet services because they're not like bad enough yet. So it's just hard. Our medical system is like effed.
Speaker 1:Can we swear? You can swear, you can swear, there's no filter yeah, our medical system is fucked we are, we are fucked over here.
Speaker 2:It's, it's fucking. I could, I could. This is one thing that could like really fire me up like it's just working within that system. Completely fucked up. You can't die well in America unless you're rich.
Speaker 1:That's so sad.
Speaker 2:And like rich, rich not, not like kind of, because no one has enough money to pay for in-home caregiving and we don't provide it.
Speaker 1:So when you go into a home, I guess you don't know what you're going to find.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't know what you're going to find and I work in LA, which is crazy because right LA there's like the rich of the rich, right, I think, with London, but like there's very, very, very wealthy people, and then there's like homeless people everywhere, right and um. So like my life is like one time I'm in a mansion and like they have all the things and then literally I'm under a bridge in Skid Row trying to give someone homeless help, a hospice care. It's just so wild. It's so wild and hospice does help in many, many ways, but the one thing we're really missing in all health care is the home care, someone really to help with the day-to-day living.
Speaker 1:That's so frustrating because that's one of the most important bits.
Speaker 2:It certainly is. Thank you. Yes, that's the most important.
Speaker 1:Of course.
Speaker 2:What's important. And people look at me, like the families are like how does anyone do this? And I'm like they don't, like I don't know what to tell you. Like, literally, this is like a complete missing link in our healthcare system. Like there's. I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 1:How do you feel when you leave that house?
Speaker 2:Makes me feel that's like my, that's, I love my job, but it is the. That is the one thing. If you couldn't tell, like my whole personality changes, like I get on fire for it, because nothing makes me more mad than seeing how unfair, how unfair it is. And I can feel so, like you feel, I feel like I can help so much and I'm helping so much. And then there's one thing where you're like you're working within a system, there's nothing you can do, like literally there's nothing you can do. I if I could like try to override something, or, but there's not even a program for it, like there's not, it's not even, it's not. Like there's no. So I feel frustrated, I feel sad. If there's ever a time that I feel like I could quit, is that like that could make me be like I can't do this anymore because it's so like an uphill battle that you'll never win.
Speaker 1:Sure, wow, wow. That's something that we do offer here in the UK, which is amazing, and then when I hear you talk about it in the way you are, I'm so thankful for it. Yeah, wait, so in the UK they do provide stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you do have home care and you get four visits a day, and people complain because sometimes they're late or whatever, but you still get those visits and four visits a day, wow what a difference that would make for and you're not paying for it no I don't know if people, I don't know if anyone's listening to this or watching this, but if you're listening, my mouth is gaping open and shut.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, no, nothing like that here. Nothing like that here. Even if you have a lot of money to pay for a type of insurance that would pay for that, they don't even do that Like. It's just not even.
Speaker 1:Wow, it's insane Now you could.
Speaker 2:It's mind-blowing yes, you could go, Like I said you could. It's mind blowing yes, you could go. Like I said you could go live Like they have places where it's like, okay, you can't take care of yourself, Go live somewhere else now.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:Which that's hard. People don't want to go live somewhere else, they want to live in their home. And guess what? Those places are still expensive as F. Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now.
Speaker 1:Well, it's reality. Yeah, and people don't realize that. Yeah, unless you fall into that situation, yep, how do you prepare somebody for death?
Speaker 2:Again, I know I sound like a broken record, but education, education. I think people don't know they need to prepare for it, unless they run into someone like me, you know, or like someone. So I think, in general, the way to start if you're listening to this and you're feeling inspired is just to um, acknowledge, like try to say things out loud about death, or like start thinking about how you would feel if you knew you were going to die soon. Right, we all are all going to die. But, like I like to say, like if you knew you were going to die in six months, like contemplate that, like what would that mean for you? What would, what would, what would you want to change in your life if, if, if, anything and sometimes on the practical level you can't, it's like listen, I got to work, I got to do all this stuff, but what could you do in the sense of like I think? I think contemplating your own mortality really helps you not take for granted things like your health, things like the sunshine, a beautiful flower, cold water, a hot shower right, Things like that that you can so easily take for granted, that are actually beautiful things in life, right? So think that's one way to prepare, just emotionally, but actual, practical things you can do.
Speaker 2:I'm 41 and I have all these things done. So practical things you can do find someone that you trust and love and show them where a folder is or something in a vault, I don't know. Whatever you want to do, I'm like still. I'm still like a person who, like, takes pen to paper but like and my sister knows that in this place in my house, you're going to find a folder that has all of my passwords to get into my phone, my computer, my bank, my bank, um get beneficiaries.
Speaker 2:I think you should tell people how, how you do you want to be buried, cremated? Do you want um like different things you'd want if something bad were to happen to you? Do you want to be kept alive? Do you want a feeding tube, Do you? There's so many things that you just need to think about, and I don't think it's ever too early now because I'm 41, I'm going to want different things than I will if I'm 85. So you got to update it and things like that. But we prepare for everything in life, so why are we not preparing for this?
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yes, and doing that will will help your loved ones. If you don't want to do it for yourself, do it for the people you love.
Speaker 2:If you don't tell somebody, just have it prepared and have it where they can find it, mm hmm, if you don't tell somebody, just have it prepared and have it where they can find it, have it where they can find it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's all in my book. So that was like that's a hard to me. That's like a boring chapter because I'm like it's like a real, like listy, how to. But it's really practical and people need it. They need to know how to do it and like so important.
Speaker 1:It's so important. Yeah, also, I liked how you described how it changes and it changes throughout life and, like I know, I've had to do it Just because of events in my life and I rethink it probably every six months. But I can, so I do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can, so you do. And why not? Even if you don't make it official, right, like you don't make it, you don't get a lawyer to notarize the things. Just be vocal with the people that you are close to that need to know what you want. So, at the end of the day, if something bad does happen, everyone knows they're all on the same page. No one's arguing, no one, you know. No one thinks they're killing you know. The worst thing is when five kids are. You know one kid's like you're killing mom, you know. And all the other kids are like you know what mom wants.
Speaker 1:She said, and they're all around the bed.
Speaker 2:Yes, and they're all around the bed and mom is hearing it, even though they don't think she is.
Speaker 1:So just tell people what you want so they know. Yeah, definitely. And the pain management conversation is such an important one as well, because there's lots of times where the loved one probably wants the pain management and their family members on the side of the bed saying don't give it, don't give it.
Speaker 2:I know, yep, oh, that's happened yeah. Education, education. And sometimes if the patient is fully alert and oriented, that's also another time I'll get real sassy, like if a patient saying they want it and they are fully alert and oriented, I don't care what the daughter says. Like exactly. Back off, lady. I'm helping your mom Like this isn't your choice to make so sorry. I'm helping your mom Like this isn't your choice to make so sorry.
Speaker 1:I love how you touch on the behavior of pets.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh my gosh, you have dogs.
Speaker 1:I do.
Speaker 2:As you know, yes, so one. I get so many messages from veterinarians talking to me about how, like cause humans have deathbed phenomena. That which is chapter six.
Speaker 1:Which is my next question.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, that's my favorite. That was my favorite chapter to write, but, um, veterinarians tell me that that dogs on their dogs and any pets, but they will experience some of the things that I explain. Humans experience Some of the things that they go through at the end of life. Animals will do the same thing and I have seen. The thing that I talk about in the book about pets is how pets are with dying owners is wild, like they will take on symptoms. Sometimes. They will be protect. They're protective all the time. So there'll be on the bed, under the bed, um, licking their face, just constantly with them, constantly with them. I've seen a dog lose weight and not eat because the owner wouldn't eat, so he would eat.
Speaker 2:Ones that take on their symptoms, ones that take on limps, ones that will refuse to go for walks because their owners either not taking them or maybe because their owner couldn't walk I don't know what it was. Dogs that howl after their loved ones die. Cats that will lay on the lap until the person dies. Just so many fascinating things. Somehow animals can feel the energy or something.
Speaker 1:It's bizarre, it's bizarre.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Death bed phenomena.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's the thing. It's hard because my most of my channels are no, my channels in general, all my social media channels are are really like science-based, Like I talk a lot about biology and the biology of death and I can't not talk about death bed phenomena because it just happens at the end of life. That's it Like when I was an ICU nurse, I did not know and it took me like probably like a year into hospice nursing for me to fully see and like have a good year of experiences where it's like it just happens, so you have to talk about it, so people know what to expect. So, um, the main ones I see that I talk about in the book are terminal lucidity, which is the rally or the surge where someone has like a burst of energy before they have one really good day.
Speaker 1:And the family members call everybody and say oh, they're doing so well.
Speaker 2:I know, I know. That's why I always try to educate beforehand, because I don't want to bear a bad news when it's happening. Right, everyone's excited, everyone's happy, they're up, they're up, they're eating.
Speaker 1:And then you have to be like it's very it happens like one in three, one in every third person, or something, and then saying the most common one for me is when the wife or husband or child has been sat at the bedside for days and days and days, and they're exhausted and they finally say you know what? I'm going home to have a shower. And they're, they're, they're not even gone five minutes and the patient passes away I know they wait until everyone leaves, yeah so that's something that I do explain to patients, our family members, sorry, yeah, sometimes
Speaker 2:it's so common yeah, especially if they're like really private, really private, prideful, you know, independent. They don't, they want to, they'll, they'll want to die alone. I see that too, people waiting, I've saw, I saw some. You wouldn't believe this. I had like a 99 year old woman like old, old, old, old, old lady who was actively dying. When I admitted her onto hospice she was already actively dying so she was fully unconscious, death rattle like, looked like she was gonna die any minute.
Speaker 2:She lived like that for three weeks oh my god no food, no water, totally comfortable, because she was literally she was like the matriarch of the family, so she was like waiting for so-and-so to come in, so-and-so comes in. Finally, by the time, by the time I made my last visit, there was like 50 people at the house literally all staying there, and then she finally died.
Speaker 1:I was like because they were.
Speaker 2:They were kind of like what's she holding on for? I'm like, are there more people coming? People coming like what's going on? I don't know. Like, who have you not called? Yeah, I know, I know, I know, yeah, there was one person coming from georgia. Anyway, yeah, three weeks and really once, once, everyone was there, I think someone, everyone was there, and one person was on the phone kind of like talking to her.
Speaker 1:She finally died oh, my goodness, I know. And then going back to like the medication and and phenomena is so if somebody doesn't understand the medication part and their loved one is saying that they see their loved ones in the room, yeah, they, they often blame it on the medication I know but it's a.
Speaker 2:Thing it's a thing. It's a thing. Yeah, visioning, who knew right? I mean, I I didn't know, as an ICU nurse I didn't really see it, but as a hospice nurse, so as a hospice nurse, I do see it all the time. And I think I see it even more now because I think a lot of people just weren't telling me this was going on, cause I think they feel weird about it probably. But now that I educate about it, most admissions people will be like oh, that's either already happening or it's happened, or they'll tell me later. But starts happening. And yeah, people, and what I think people are surprised about, because there's always the argument oh, they're overmedicated or oxygen levels low. And I just want to be like, listen, I'm sure you, you know the same thing. I know what overmedicated looks like.
Speaker 2:I know what low oxygen looks like. I know what ICU delirium and psychosis looks like Like. This is not that. Most of the time they're pretty lucid and just kind of surprised by it themselves.
Speaker 1:And it happens to probably 95% of the patients. It's not like a one-off.
Speaker 2:It's not a one-off, no, and it's worldwide. So it happens across all cultures.
Speaker 1:I love when it happens, because I ask questions. I know, yeah, I get involved in the conversation and I say hello to the person that's sitting in the chair in the corner and and that's that's kind of what I love, because it's making that patient feel very comfortable as well.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Yeah, I'm always like listen if they're not having a problem with it there and they're comfortable like go with it.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:I mean truly most of the stories that I've seen or people that I've seen do it. They are not confused, they are lucid and kind of being like I know this sounds crazy. They are lucid and kind of being like I know this sounds crazy, but my parents have come to me and they said they're not coming back. They're not, it's not time yet, but they're coming back and not to worry. And I feel like it's like great, like, yeah, great.
Speaker 1:It's amazing. I know you see people reaching for the ceiling, you see like so many things, and if you don't understand the whole process, I can understand how it can be scary for somebody as well who's watching that process happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, oh my gosh, I know I love like I don't know what it's actually called. I call it like the death stare or like, and usually the stare and reach can kind of like glaze yeah.
Speaker 2:Glazed over. I had a really good example of that just happened the other day where a patient was like they had dementia. So they were kind of like confused. But they were like pleasantly confused and like looking at me and kind of being like yeah, and talking to me, and then all of a sudden it was like like just zone out, looking over to the corner and then suddenly huge smile come on their face and I'm like you know cause? We were just we're talking and they wouldn't do it, they would not, they would not come back. And then all of a sudden come back and then then then they're back to me again talking and I usually don't fully go in, I usually am not like what's going on, I usually just act like it didn't really happen. But I still love to see it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 2:Whatever it is. I don't know what it is, I don't claim to know, but I still think it's great.
Speaker 1:It's one of the craziest things, because we're never going to know all these answers until it's our time, and then we can't come back and tell people.
Speaker 2:So I know, I know yeah.
Speaker 1:Crazy. So I love that you share all these real life stories on social media, and do you find that people might come back at you in a negative way? Do you get a lot of negative comments, or is it mainly supportive and saying thank you for for explaining this, or do you get that whole? What are you talking about?
Speaker 2:All right, it is, thankfully is mainly supportive. It is mainly supportive. It's still really easy to hang on to the ones that are not, but it is mainly supportive. Whenever something goes viral, that's always when you always like anything viral is going to bring negative is going to bring negative. So I always try to keep that in mind, that if something's going really viral, it's because that means there's going to be haters.
Speaker 2:So I still do get some hate stuff. I still get like really crazy hateful emails sometimes that make no sense and you're like this person is clearly mentally not well, I mean, it is a sensitive topic, right, so it's like I can see how some people get really triggered by it. But for the most part, truly, I would say like 99% is, is is nice. Now I do. There's certain topics, right. So like I always talk about medical aid and dying, which is legal in 11 States, in the U S and Canada, is much even more legal. It's it's like way not to me, it's way more accessible there, but in the U S at least 11 States you can get it and I work in one of those States. So I I'm part of that program. So whatever I post about that or educate about that, which I think is so important that Americans know it even exists, because most people don't. I get a lot of hate because it's such a controversial topic.
Speaker 1:What is the process? What is the process?
Speaker 2:So the process in America anyway, first off, as a healthcare worker I can't even say like hey, do you know? This is available to you, but if they ask me I can tell them. So the process is someone has to, and it differs from state to state, but generally speaking you have to have two different doctors say you have less than six months to live, so you have to have one say that, and then, from a terminal illness, one say that, and then a few weeks later you have to have one say that and then, from a terminal illness, one say that, and then a few weeks later you have to get another doctor to say that and you basically have to also get those doctors to clear you mentally, like you're mentally aware, you can, you can take this medication on your own volition. No one's coursing you to take it like going on. You've never had any kind of like severe mental illness where you're suicidal. These different things they have to go through. So there are some hoops. That's why, if you want to get it, I suggest you get it early, because as early as you can anyway, because you don't have to take it once you get it. So you have to go through all this rigmarole and different processes of doctors signing you off, but once you get them signed off, saying you are terminally ill, you are mentally and you can physically take it yourself in one form or another, they will give you the medication.
Speaker 2:Once you have the medication, then you can come on hospice if you want. You don't even have to. Really, you cannot be on hospice and get it because Medicare won't pay for it Right, because Medicare is federally funded, whatever. But that's neither here nor there. So then you go on hospice if you want to, and then some people never even take the medicine, and then some people do, and if you do, it's basically like a powder and you mix it with a little bit of liquid and you take anti-nausea medicine first, probably like an hour before, because it does taste really bad and can make your stomach upset, and then, once you drink it though, it's really quick. I was surprised when I first saw it.
Speaker 2:So you drink it and it tastes bad and probably five minutes later you're fully unconscious, just totally out, and then I'd say, within the next 10 minutes it goes. Your body will just immediately go into that actively dying phase. So you changes in breathing, changes in skin color, all the things, and it does take a tight time in a process. So about 45 minutes of very peaceful, it's very peaceful, you're just fully unconscious. It'll eventually stop your heart.
Speaker 1:Wow, I know.
Speaker 2:It's pretty wild.
Speaker 1:Do you, do you have to bring the police and say it's a suicide afterwards?
Speaker 2:No, okay, cause some countries have to we would put on their death certificate the disease, the terminal disease.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, that's why most people, I think, are on hospice when they do it. So then you don't have to call 911, and whatever I think you'd have if you weren't on hospice, you'd probably have to have some kind of doctor, not at the house but like kind of involved so when, at least in California, you don't have any, no one has to pronounce you dead. So like the family can say you're dead, yeah, yeah, but you have to be on hospice. I think if you're not on hospice you have to call the coroner's office. You have to do a bunch of things, but if you're in hospice they can just call us and say they died and we go, okay, call the mortuary. Wow.
Speaker 1:Isn't that?
Speaker 2:crazy.
Speaker 1:That is crazy. So how many times do the mortuary arrive and the patient's not dead?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I mean right, yeah, family's just saying yeah, Interesting. I think your next guest should be someone who's a merchant, who works for a mortuary I think so see, to see so many questions well, people can kind of tell them someone's dead, right? I mean, actually I have some stories where they didn't know they were dead and they were dead oh, I know I had to walk in and I'm like this person is dead and the family's walking around eating sandwiches.
Speaker 2:No, none the wiser. I'm like can't you tell? I know it's wild, it's wild.
Speaker 1:It's a great subject and I love that we can have a laugh about it as well, because it's a serious subject. But I think it's important, like the more you know, the more relaxed you are about it, and it works for family members and patients as well. Yeah, and I think your book is gonna be fabulous just for those reasons.
Speaker 2:I hope so, thank you. Thank you, yeah, we'll see we will.
Speaker 1:I can't wait. I will be advertising that book, that wait. So yeah, let's just move on into some fun questions. They're quick fire, so like sometimes people take a little bit of time to think about them, but I edit it so it's much quicker than it is in real life. So let's just move into that and let's see what we got. So what has been your favorite age so far?
Speaker 2:Oh God, that's so good. Oh man, Okay, I want to say now I want to say I can seriously say, like so many different ages, all my ages, I'm good. I'm good with aging, I'm good with aging and I am good with appreciating the time I'm in. You know what I mean. So I think, I think I'll say this age because I love who I am, I love my life.
Speaker 1:Crazy things are happening, so this age, Amazing what item is worth spending your money on.
Speaker 2:A really good hotel. A really good hotel. I love a good four-star hotel. I'm so snotty now, that's all I want. Five-star, five-star, four-star.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. What are you most looking forward to?
Speaker 2:In this moment, right now. I'm looking forward to June 11th, when my book comes out, for many reasons One, for the world to have it. Two, for the feeling of this like antsy feeling of trying to get all the stuff done is kind of like over because it's out now and we can. We can just move on not move on from the book, but just move on from trying to do all these things for the book. So I'm looking for, I'm looking forward to that. June 11, baby so close, it is so close. It's gonna be great June 11th, baby so close.
Speaker 1:It is so close it's going to be great. Do you own a Netflix account or do you hijack somebody else's?
Speaker 2:I own one and everyone hijacks mine.
Speaker 1:Same here.
Speaker 2:It's okay, I don't really care. You can, everyone can. I can give everyone my code.
Speaker 1:What are the least likely three words someone would use to describe you.
Speaker 2:The least likely right the least likely. Mean dirty snobby.
Speaker 1:What do you think the meaning of life is?
Speaker 2:To connect to others. We're all one and the meaning of life is to be present and connect to others.
Speaker 1:Whose death has hit you the hardest? My friend Shauna has hit you the hardest, my friend Shauna. What trait defines you, who you are?
Speaker 2:What trait? Can you give an example? Do you need to phone a friend?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I need to phone a friend.
Speaker 2:What trait, like a trait in me, most defines you? Oh, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 1:Open. I'm going to open. You are, and I was going to say caring as well, so caring would have been a great trait. What is the kindest thing anyone has ever done for you?
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, there's so many fricking things the kindest thing anyone has ever done for me. There's so many things. You're going to have to edit this one. Huh. There's so many things You're going to have to edit this one huh, there's so. Honestly, I have so many wonderful, kind people in my life that do like amazing things for me every day, all the time, all the time. I'm so lucky.
Speaker 1:I don't know. That's a great answer though.
Speaker 2:That's a great answer right there I think of so many things that are done for me in a kind way like daily.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. What makes you hopeful?
Speaker 2:Oh, the present moment. There's something about that. So when I say that it's like that's how I connect, If we want to, just to use an easy word, to use the word God, which I think can be, I just use it because it's easy, but I don't know how to describe it. That is how I can feel the power of the universe, I guess is by being in the present moment. And if I'm there and I'm truly open to what is reality, which is only the present moment, I can feel like the expansion of the eternal now, and that can make me feel hopeful.
Speaker 1:Name a person who inspires you.
Speaker 2:Oprah.
Speaker 1:Very interesting. Listen to the podcast that just came out this morning.
Speaker 2:Is it bad? Is it bad for is it? Is it bad on Oprah?
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:No, it makes me so sad.
Speaker 1:I just think it's funny, it's great, it's great. Name a song that makes you happy.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, there's a random song called one by a band called bird talker.
Speaker 1:I'm going to look it up. Be very happy If you could make one wish come true. What would it be?
Speaker 2:Oh, that can make me cry. I'm not going to say my real answer because it's too personal. You can erase that I'll have to. I'll tell you, but then I'll tell a little slightly different one, okay. Okay, my other wish that you're actually going to put on the podcast and that there's peace on earth. That is real I mean really we need, yeah, we definitely need peace on earth.
Speaker 1:We definitely need peace on earth, Earth yeah. What calms you when you're feeling stressed? Television. Do you have a celebrity crush?
Speaker 2:Tom Selleck.
Speaker 1:Do you have a bucket list?
Speaker 2:No, I've already done all my. I've done a bunch of shit. I've done a bunch of shit. I still have things I want to do, but I've done like a lot of stuff and I just do whatever I want to do, really, which I'm so fricking lucky. I'm so privileged and lucky that I can do that shit.
Speaker 1:But I'm the same. I'm the same. I don't have a bucket list, I've, if I dropped dead tonight. I dropped dead doing so many great things that I loved, so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, uh what? Does happiness mean to you?
Speaker 2:To be content. I feel like happiness is kind of coming and going, but to be content is what I strive for.
Speaker 1:Do you believe in life after death?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:How do you want to die?
Speaker 2:In my bed in my 90s, ready to go.
Speaker 1:And how do you want to be remembered?
Speaker 2:As a funny, lighthearted person who helped people when I could and also had good boundaries.
Speaker 1:Amazing Thanks for the chat, julie. I'm looking forward to June the 11th, when your book comes out Me too.
Speaker 2:So exciting. Yeah, thanks for being chat, julie.
Speaker 1:I'm looking forward to June, the 11th, when your book comes out. Me too, so exciting yeah. Thanks for being a great guest.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much.