Breastfeeding after blood loss - Leanne's story part 2

Although the episode title refers to blood loss, Leanne’s story is about far more than that. It is important to flag up that Leanne’s birth contained trauma and her calm and articulate description of her experience is testament to who she is as a person, and the support and debriefing she has received. It won’t be an easy listen for everyone so please consider this a trigger warning for birth trauma. How does someone get breastfeeding off to a good start despite a very challenging and difficult birth? What factor can blood loss play? Leanne’s story is an example of the value of good support, communication and a mother’s determination.

We’ve split Leanne’s story into two parts. This second half begins after her traumatic birth and medically-induced coma.

My new book, ‘Supporting the Transition from Breastfeeding: a Guide to Weaning for Professionals, Supporters and Parents’, is out now.

You can get 10% off the book at the Jessica Kingsley press website, that's uk.jkp.com using the code MMPE10 at checkout.

Follow me on Twitter @MakesMilk and on Instagram  @emmapickettibclc or find out more on my website www.emmapickettbreastfeedingsupport.com

Find out if you are eligible to give blood at www.blood.co.uk

Information and support for traumatic births can be found at The Birth Trauma Association and MIND

This podcast is presented by Emma Pickett IBCLC, and produced by Emily Crosby Media.

Transcript

Thank you for joining us for part two of Leanne's story. We decided to break the episode into two sections, as I'm sure you can appreciate from having heard part one we didn't feel it was a story that we could edit. And it needs to be listened to in its complete-ness. Just again, a reminder that if you did have a very traumatic birth yourself, or if the idea of birth trauma feels difficult to hear, this may be an episode that you want to skip. And we would understand that, but I think there is a lot for us to learn, especially those of us who work with families and work with parents after a difficult birth. So let's get back to the story. 

Emma Pickett  00:41

So you are now recovering, you're coming out of your coma, you are now lying in a bed, your eyes open. You're here. What happens next? Presumably, someone's got to tell you what's happened. Yeah, how quickly did you see Lorcan? Do you remember that first time you saw him? 

Leanne Fitzpatrick  00:58

Yeah, so I roused myself from the coma at around 3.35. And I remember hearing like voices, it was really like coming out of a coma. And anybody that has, you know, maybe come out of a very extreme service scenario, really like deep sleep, you're in this like, very, like, foggy phase. I'm also at this point, think I'm on anti fentanyl, the drug, I'm gonna get stepped down to morphine, so I can start to breastfeed. So that gives you a kind of, like, the level of like, you know, I'm not in a complete, but I would say that being an ITU is quite a sight, there is a psychosis that goes with being in like a post coma state. And so I'm kind of coming out. And all I remember thinking was two things. What's happened to my womb, that was essentially why I feel like I woke myself up. And secondly, I need to breastfeed this baby. That was just like, I was like, these two, very clear, very, hopefully, people can kind of probably get a sense for I'm quite determined person, once I put my mind to things. So like, yeah, there was a noise, like, psychotic determination that I was kind of coming out of this place with, of kind of when I say out this place, I mean, like, rousing myself awake with a need to find out what had happened, specifically to my womb, and what had happened, what's what was gonna happen in terms of feeding my baby, because, for context, I know we've talked about my story. Prior to this point, I had made the call that I was really, really did want to breastfeed my baby. And so I would already kind of really got set in my mind that I was going to do everything I could to try and breastfeed. And now again, we talk about I'm sure in a minute about kind of where they've come from. But that was why it was so on my mind that I wanted to get kind of almost out of the coma to find out what was happening. And so they kind of dashed over, just be like, Oh, my gosh, she's waking up and sort of like checking all the vitals bringing me round. And then as I was brought round, there was a phased series of events, whoever was kind of, I guess, on management of itu that, like a senior doctor came over to tell me quite clinically, what had happened to me. And then there was an obstetrician who was on duty in labour ward that de who also subsequently came down to let me know what had happened to which, you know, quite factually in this is in a very factual way, at the moment to sort of just state you know, I did have to kind of remove my womb and wet what had kind of happened in terms of placing me I'd had substantial blood loss. And just a few very, I think I've been open enough here that we can just go right into it more, but you know, some of the things to expect in terms of because of multiple handling of the, the wound site around where your room is just anticipating, you know, what might happen when my bladder and my bowels going on. And those views are things that I don't think you really want to hear when you've just come out of a coma, and all you're thinking is, but I've just had a baby, baby, you know, like, that's kind of where your head is that it's like, Where's my baby? Where am I? Where am I in context of this hospital? What's happened to me and then also dealing with this huge shock, like, oh, my gosh, I've lost my knife, you know, my wounds gone. What does that mean for me going forward? Yeah. So there was a lot in a very short space of time, looking back, and also just fundamentally completely exhausted. I mean, I couldn't lift my arms, I'd had such blade, you know, regardless of kind of the operations I'd gone under the blood loss meant that I was in such a weakened state, because I you know, I could barely lift my arms because my body had lost all of its blood. And so it was kind of recovering from all of the shock of that and that that I barely move for the first 24 to 30 hours and that was really hard to come to terms with as somebody who's quite physically active, usual stance of life, that the shock of like not even being able to kind of adjust myself on the bed or anything like that having to be essentially moved and propped up if I wanted any kind of adjustment. That was a lot of a big shock to come to terms with as well. 

Emma Pickett  05:16

Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot going on in a very short period of time. There's a lot of emotions around and and do you mind me asking you about your hysterectomy? Yeah. And in that moment when someone said, that's what happened, I'm guessing you had this incredible feeling of loss? Was anyone able to talk to you about I mean, you've still got ovaries, you're still producing eggs. I mean, we can we can take this bit out if this is too much information. But is it possible that you can have another child with a surrogate? Is that something that's an option. 

Leanne Fitzpatrick  05:47

So I've been fortunate enough in the senior consultant who performed the surgeries on the subsequently sought she runs her own fertility clinic as well. So she did see me and Rory for a call in the in the beginning of January this year. So the second of January was for like a very strange New Year's gift, I guess, to talk about my options, given that I still have my ovaries and surrogacy would be a route if we wanted to have a biological child. Obviously, if we wanted more children, fostering and adoption is also on the tables. We're just not at that place where we

Emma Pickett  06:18

say you've got a six month old baby, I don't think I don't think anyone's gonna pin you to that. And you might not have even wanted other children anyway. But I sense the that was an issue for you, because you're talking about your hysterectomy. So it's good that you've got that support, and someone's helping you think about future options, which don't, you know, one has to decide anytime now, anyone with a six month old baby who knows what they want to do next is ahead of the game for sure. So tell us about the first time you saw lock? And do you remember that were you a bit dazed, and you can't quite pin it down. 

Leanne Fitzpatrick  06:45

So again, but a very trigger warning probably wasn't all the happy families that like people might be wanting to hear this turned out you so what locum was will down at roughly pop OS five. And, you know, I'm coming to terms with the fact that my body is not what I am expecting posted, I think you kind of anticipate for a level of your body to be completely not you like how you had it before childbirth, or even before kind of pregnancy. But this is like a whole nother ballgame for me, which is like I, at the time, I'm like I've lost complete ability to have more children. And I don't know if I'm even going to like make it out of this hospital with kind of some of the bodily functions that I would like to still have intact. I don't even know if I'm ever going to be able to run again or lift weights, you know, like there was like all this stuff not like, I wasn't like thinking about all these things at once. But what I'm trying to put the context of is like, then suddenly you've got this, you know, baby being wheeled in front of you who you didn't have that initial close contact with to hold. Yeah. And so in that initial phase, I was like, I got asked, Would you like to hold him and my mom had dashed up from London, because that's similar to stuff and are either born and bred London now migrated to the north. But my mum was living in lives down in London still. So she had jumped on the first train on that Saturday morning when I was in the coma. So she was in the intensive care unit, and my husband came in and so did Lorcan. And that's when they tried to bring him over to see me and they asked me to do what they want to hold him. And, you know, unfortunately, my initial reaction was no I didn't really upset about that. And that was when I started to really panic about my bond with my baby. That was where I was like, am I going to be able to breastfeed this baby? Am I going to get the urge to do the things I wanted to do before delivery of him and like all the things I was really excited about because of what's now happened. And I'm pleased to say that you know, after a little bit of like a tearing up I was then kind of came to terms with the fact that yes, I did really want to help my baby and my first feeling was like, Oh my gosh, firstly, want to say I didn't grow up with many babies around me I've not really I'm not got much experience of holding newborns at all. So my my own babies like essentially the first newborn i I've held really hadn't coupled with the fact that I didn't have much arm strength

Emma Pickett  09:21

I was gonna say your arms aren't working. So this holding is gonna be a pretty big effort required.

Leanne Fitzpatrick  09:27

I remember thinking how heavy is this baby? You know, like then I went on to realise that my arms weren't working properly a couple of days later because I realised I couldn't pick up you know even like a glass properly and things like that because at this time like for context again for everyone anyone listening you know I'm being I've got a feeding tube up my nose I've got Why is everything so everything's kind of being dumped on me I don't have to be like drinking water or anything like that my body's keeping kept hydrated by everything that so you know, a very what would be classical like a Very standard like coma setup, just without essentially the intubation tube in me at the moment, so I've got everything else. So like all my vitals, I've got a central line going down my neck, I know that no one can see me and I'm like pointing to body parts, but essentially got a whole number of lines into my arm. So I've got lots of wires that are all there doing all the functions. So I wouldn't have known that my arms didn't have, you know, the strength. And secondly, those were the things that were also impacting me being able to hold lock in in a way that was comfortable. So everything is really uncomfortable. There's there's all this new environment, and but I did go on to hold him. And then I was really fortunate that who, whoever it will come down from postnatal was one of the breastfeeding support workers and went on to ask me you do want to breastfeed? Would you like to breastfeed him? And I should just say one thing before loco was wheeled in, the neath assist, a nice assist did come to see me between the time that I woke up and the time of law and being wheeled in to talk about the drugs that they were keeping me on for pain relief. And so I was stepped down to breastfeeding friendly, and let's say drugs. And that was something that I feel like the hospital did really well to kind of manage that and, and get that done as quickly as possible. So I was essentially stepped down to morphine, so that I could go on to breastfeed. So when I was offered that opportunity to breastfeed Lorcan, I was in a position where I could I could feed him. Yeah, I mean that

Emma Pickett  11:31

I think one of the things I would take away from your story is that people are worried if they don't have the golden hour, you didn't get the golden 24 hours. So the fact that you are now successfully breastfeeding at six months is a real testament to the fact we don't have to have the perfect birth with sage and rose petals and Van Morrison music on the CD, you can have any kind of birth and with the right support and the right information and the right determination. It is possible to make breastfeeding work and you know you are absolutely testament to that and and to not have that rush of emotion of love and bonding. And I think it's really healthy to hear you describe that because even people who've had the most standard boring birth in the world still worry that that's their experience. And it is not true that everyone feels that immediate rush of love of oh my god, I do anything for this baby, the minute they hold their baby. But you did go on to breastfeed was it then that in that first session that first hold you breast had a go at breastfeeding with all the wires and all the not being able to physically hold him. So someone literally holding him for you at that point. 

Leanne Fitzpatrick  12:34

Yeah, so essentially I was I was fortunate enough that I gave permission to essentially for that breastfeeding support worker to latch baby on on my behalf. And it was essentially trying to just, I No one will be able to see it. But if you imagine trying to just, I was in a very laid back position because of the bed I was on. And so the kind of the support worker got all the pillows, comfortable and in a place and then kind of got his head in a very good I know your episodes, a lot of your episodes, and I talk about position and attachments. So she essentially went on to do all of that for me, so that we could get that very first latch and a comfortable and kind of talk to me about what I was feeling. And I felt very comfortable with that environment that was being kind of sent check in also the ITU staff that didn't need to be in the room at the time kind of vacated just to give us that because obviously there's a lot going on there, which in that first match. I mean, again, I'm not an expert in all the physiological parts of this, but I think there is, you know, after such a stressful scenario like that oxytocin release still needs to come down, which will happen physiologically anyway, when you latch baby. But there's like all this tension of like, oh my gosh, the first time I've seen a baby, first time I'm trying to feed the baby, am I even going to be able to feed this baby, lots going on there. But, you know, I think it was testament to that kind of experience of having the baby latched to me. And then I was in that kind of a good kind of laying back position. As best as I could give him that I had sort of, I had a lot of monitoring wires all strapped to my chest. So and then why is as I said, in both hands, I had cannulas in my elbow and the front part of my elbow and my arms and central line in the back of my neck. So if you can imagine those were kind of like manoeuvring around wise, I've got like clips or for checking my heart rate on my fingers, etc. So there was a lot going on there. So the support. And one of the things I want to kind of shout out about is I know you've got a lot of listeners who aren't just you know, breastfeeding people or people that want to go on to breastfeed or chest feeding. It's also people who work and want to get more interested in supporting lactation. And I want to say that without those people in those critical hours when I came out of that coma, I would not have been able to go On to breastfeed because it was critically important at that point. To get that baby latched I feel for me and for my my milk supply, not necessarily for everybody. But certainly that initial phase and helping me to get a very comfortable latch meant that I, in context of this really extreme hospital setup meant that things went quite well. From there on not, you know, there were lots and lots of ups and downs in the road. But those initial latches where I was getting a lot of hands on support, were quite critical because I could start to determine what felt like a good latch and a bad latch quite quickly. Particularly because then the stretch of ICU. So I spent another Monday morning. So overall, about 50 hours in ITU, the stretch of itu overnight and the stretches. Through the day, it was very difficult to get people from postnatal down on to itu, with Lachlan, and that this is I won't keep kind of changing the context. But there was a lot in that time, where I didn't get hands on support. And so if I hadn't have had it in those initial debt in that initial kind of, kind of coming out of the coma, and when I first met Lorcan, I don't think I would have got it got breastfeeding, working in the latch working until I was moved to high dependency and labour, which was my next part of my journey. And I think it was critical in that initial phase because doing it by myself was almost impossible. So I had to go on to essentially Express colostrum while I was on itu, because in some circumstances, it was just too difficult by myself, or with my husband or my mom to get locked and latched without support while I was in ICU. 

Emma Pickett  16:48

Okay, okay. So you move to a different section you're expressing you're getting support to express colostrum even expressing colostrum is quite hard when you're lying down in your arms don't work. So and it's different. You know, you've got wires everywhere. I mean, you've got clips on fingers. It's not easy to express at that point. But you're making that work. And then you said, around day four, someone said to you something, something about blood loss and lactation, what was the context of that conversation? 

Leanne Fitzpatrick  17:13

Yeah, so once I was moved on to high dependency in labour, so that was on the Monday, the infant feeding team at the hospital, I worked out. We're in Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursdays at the time, when I was in hospital, that's actually subsequently changed. I've got a great relationship. And this is a big shout out to Monique. She will listen to this episode from that infant feeding team who came to see me as soon as she could, when she was worked the first day working post my scenario, which was that Tuesday, and it was Monique that came into my to my room to talk through with me, not just what had happened to me, but the context of what had happened to me or my breastfeeding and all my milk supply, and the risks of things like mastitis going on to have difficulties with my milk production, variety of different and I'm sure Emma, you will be able to speak much more detailed and much more scientifically and eloquently about all the different impacts. And I know you're you're have a bit of a pre talk about all of those things. But that was where then that was made, I was brought to this kind of awareness of breastfeeding could be a difficult journey for you. But regardless of that, that was where we then went on to talk about getting some really much more comfortable positions for me, because if you imagine I've got this huge, you know, anybody that has had a C section, you've got a lot of pain going on at that point, I've had to lots of operations, major operations in that wound site by this point, I'm still not getting out of bed myself, I wasn't able to kind of stand until the Wednesday or the Thursday, I know they encourage active standing after C section quite quickly, but with what I went through and the blood loss, you know, if things were very much on their own schedule. So for context for anyone listening, you know, the hospital staff couldn't give me an idea of when I was going to leave hospital because they those sort of these sort of circumstances are so rare, but also so unique to the individual, they wouldn't want to put a timeline on you because they don't want to feel make you feel pressured, that you need to be, you know, at a certain milestone by certain day because that could be quite detrimental. So, at this point, we're thinking about, Okay, I've been made aware of the risks by money, but what other things we can do to try and keep breastfeeding flourishing. And that was really thinking about positions given the kind of physical situation I'm in where I'm just about sort of getting myself set up now. Realising just how lack of like, help weak my arms have become like I couldn't lift you know, I had this like Tumblr that I took to the hospital with a straw in it. I think they're very trendy on Instagram these days. I remember lifting it. I think this actually feels like you know, like a lead way It feels like a good few kilo dumbbell that I'm trying to lift to my to drink out of. And that was when I realised why I felt like feeding Norcom was so uplifting and holding on was so difficult just for context of like, it was actually to do with just I couldn't lift any kind of sizable baby

Emma Pickett  20:18

he wasn't teeny tiny for I remember you saying I'm gonna use the word nine pounds or something. So nine pound baby. Yeah, I give birth to six pounders. So I'm a bit of a weekly in comparison. So did Monique, explain that there's a risk to possibly your milk not coming in or a delay to your milk coming in? Is that something that you were prepared for? And, and what did happen with your transition as your milk came in?

Leanne Fitzpatrick  20:38

Yeah, so I was warned at that. But by the Tuesday, it felt that my milk was already sort of making that switch from colostrum to to milk. So I was already kind of on that journey. So I think I was at the point where it's being told of all these risks were it was almost like I got over the major hurdle of getting that initial latch going. But the one thing that I would say is that there was so many times where that breastfeeding opportunity in those first few days could have been majorly disrupted. So once I got to high dependency, for example, I had a lot of one to one help getting lost and latched on to me for every feed that was so instrumental in making sure that breastfeeding was working going on going forward, that I think what Monique had let me know about on the Tuesday would have been much more severe or much more of an impact if we hadn't already got a few of those initial feeds really well established. 

Emma Pickett  21:40

Yeah, I will shout out to Monique and her team. I'm so glad that you can tell me that that was the experience you had because it would have been awful if you'd have the birth followed by a nightmare, postnatal experience and breastfeeding not happening because of lack of support. So I'm so glad that was what happened for you and and how long were you in hospital in the end.

Leanne Fitzpatrick  21:59

So total 10 days in the end, so I left the Sunday night, a week after Larcan was born. And so we by the Thursday evening, we were moving down to postnatal and then spent a few days on postnatal. And that was where like our sort of support was substantially reduced. And this is one of the things that I do see from a lot of new mums that I speak to you for various baby groups, you know, that experience on postnatal was so difficult for people to get breastfeeding started. And it's such a difficulty in terms of just it's not for one of the all the people around me was so they were like my biggest cheerleaders ever. And I feel like they want to do that for every single month that comes through and every single year both in person that comes through, they want to give them the best experience but just the resources that we have right now. It's not you know, it's it isn't on the individuals. It's as you talk a lot about on other episodes. It's these kinds of systematic impact that we're now in

Emma Pickett  23:02

my cousin's a midwife in London, and she was telling me the other day it's, we're in a post surgery Ward and as a midwife on a postnatal ward, we're dealing with, you know, four people, five people who've had C sections. It's not, it's not even a postnatal ward. In many ways. It's a post surgery Ward, it's, it's an impossible task for midwives to be able to support everyone to breastfeed and give them the care they need to give them it's just so tough. 

Emma Pickett  23:27

A little advert just to say that you can buy my four books online. You've Got It In You, a positive guide to breastfeeding is 99p as an e book, and that's aimed at expectant and new parents. The Breast Book published by Pinter Martin is a guide for nine to 14 year olds, and it's a puberty book that puts the emphasis on breasts, which I think is very much needed. And my last two books are about supporting breastfeeding beyond six months and supporting the transition from breastfeeding. For a 10% discount on the last two, go to Jessica Kingsley Press. That's uk.jkp.com and use the code MMPE10, Makes Milk Pickett Emma 10. Thanks. 

Emma Pickett  24:12

So you were in postnatal for a few days but not too long? And then you're home? And are you able to walk at this point? Are you able to hold lock and how are you feeling physically?

Leanne Fitzpatrick  24:22

So by this Sunday, I was able to change his nappy by myself in the hospital and that was when I knew I was ready to go home essentially because essentially there were we not waiting but you know I was law comes primary caregiver by the definition of a hospital standard. And so in my eyes that was I needed to be able to at least pick him up out of a cot and be able to like put clothes on them and change his nappy. They were like functional things that I felt like needed to happen before I felt that I could go home so by this point, yeah, I I was able to get up I'd had like, fortunately from a hygiene perspective, I hadn't had a shower, things like that on postnatal. So I've been able to kind of Potter was my husband support to the to the shower and back. And when we came home, essentially we set up our downstairs area. So it took me at least another week before I climbed stairs. So that because it kind of gives you the context of just how kind of physically impaired I was still at this point. And so we came home and our sleeping arrangement. We had a sofa bed downstairs, fortunately, somehow we'd had the foresight to move our sofa bed to our, to our living room area. So we could just pull that out and Logan's kind of next to me cot went down there with us. And so we essentially lived downstairs for the first couple of weeks after coming home until I felt comfortable enough to be able to get up and down the stairs whilst carrying law can which took a good at least two weeks, because I needed to climb stairs independently myself first.

Emma Pickett  25:51

Yeah. So you're, you're breastfeeding at this point. And obviously Lucan had had some colostrum and syringes of colostrum, did you need to use formula in these early weeks?

Leanne Fitzpatrick  26:02

Yeah, because I feel like we've talked a lot about the story, but not necessarily about all the you know, things about the breastfeeding. And I think some of the things like around to help people understand the picture of where we were, before I went into hospital, I'd actually already been crushed from harvesting, and that was through knowledge from antenatal classes that I did and hope I can see them. So I took those through the honest midwife, which is Louise, bridges, classes, and there, let's talk about the baby. And I found that was about eight hours of solid content on breastfeeding. And a good one to two hours spent on that was like the early days and understanding about colostrum. And so I threw that I decided to start colostrum harvesting around 36 and a half weeks. And one of the things I know there's been a couple of episodes you've done where people have talked about colostrum harvesting. I mean, the other big advocate of antenatal colostrum, obviously. And I did it as you've heard in the like that postnatal that initial postnatal phase as well. But I want to highlight that it can be really up and down how much you're going to get, and it can be really, really do. Yeah. So for anybody thinking about this, I would really, really advocate for it because I kind of went into hospital with this mentality of like, at least we've got all of this just in case it happens. But it turned out that over that for from that 36 and a half week just by persevering by the last week, because I was you know, 40 plus weeks by this point. I was actually colostrum harvesting three times a day. And on that Thursday before we went into hospital, my husband Tim and me said we're still doing that. Don't we have enough syringes, but at this point, we'd had 59 syringes in my 60s syringe and there was something in my mind that was like, I just want to get to 60 syringes.

Emma Pickett  27:55

Wow, that's amazing. And I bet Rory was very glad for all those syringes as he sat in that room with Luke. And when Logan was just born thinking, if it wasn't for these syringes I'd be done or what I'd be doing. Oh, that's fantastic. Well done. 

Leanne Fitzpatrick  28:08

Yeah. And that he was like, the one thing I remembered that was that conversation that I had with you, which is why you continue to do this. And my answer was, well, if we don't use it, we can either donate it, or we can just stick it in the bath or do do we do something with it? We're like lochans Barf. I mean, like we can do something with with the milk because I'd understood that from the antenatal class as well. We could do things with colostrum after we'd harvested it if you didn't need it in that scenario. Logan was such a big hungry baby that he made his way through 60 syringes in the first 24 hours. So going back to your original question around what happened with formula so in that initial phase when I was in the in theatre, being worked on Rory was actually brought a bottle of formula to feed Logan in those in that really initial kind of first hour. Because obviously, he was going to be hungry. Rory distinctly remembers that lock and like essentially swallowed the whole bottle on him most of it okay. You really remember that. And then fortunately, the team on postnatal was so lovely because we we don't have any family close to us in Manchester. And so, you know, at six in the morning Roy's not even like picked up the phone to anybody at this point. He realises that it's going to be a long hospital stay. Once they confirm that I was stabilised in the coma. He knew we were put he was probably going to be in it for a bit of a long haul. He needed to go and get way more nappies and we brought for you know, our little overnight hospital but I was not going to hold up and also to go home and get all those classrooms syringes. So this is the other thing I really want to mention to people is if you're listening to this and you're pregnant, or you're planning a pregnancy or planning more children, and you're thinking about breastfeeding and you're not too sure or you are really convinced, make sure your closest friends and family know your choices. around how you want to breastfeed your baby. Because if I had multiple conversations, and we hadn't had multiple conversations about how we wanted to feed our baby, in those initial like weeks up into the labour, I don't think, like, I think, again, in that extreme scenario, your fight or flight takes over, I think, like Roy's mentality, which is like, I know that we just want exclusively breastfeed, I want to get in trouble. So yeah, I'm gonna go into all those, like, she's harvested all that colostrum for a reason. I'm gonna get straight home and go and get it and have a few freezer packs in your in your freezer as well. So you can transport it to the hospital, don't necessarily have to take it to the hospital with you if you don't want to be asking about fridges and things like that. But definitely have it on tap that if someone can quickly drive back if you live close enough to your hospital, to go grab it on a freezer pack and bring it and that's essentially what we did that day. He went a couple of times and then the the hospital themselves were nice enough for us to use the fridge. Obviously, I was still in a coma at this time, but forward to use the fridge and then a breastfeeding support worker or a midwife who was helping feed or looking through the syringes just just from if anybody doesn't know there's a risk of asphyxiation with feeding colostrum from a syringe. And so they were on hand to just kind of support with making sure that there wasn't any risk. There was more he was feeding walkin with with that colostrum. 

Emma Pickett  31:26

Yeah, well, so well done. Well done for 60 syringes. And if anyone's listening to this, and they don't get any close to 60, don't feel bad, sick 60s. I've, that's the top end of what I've heard people doing underneath it. So wow, that's that was also meant to be, I think, looking back as well. And so after that, when you're home, were you able to then exclusively breastfeed at that point? 

Leanne Fitzpatrick  31:47

Yes. So fortunately, I had a lot of challenges with the latch. Once I went home, I think just getting used to the fact that I've been in the same, my hospital bed effectively wheeled with me the whole way through my whole experience. So aside from the transition from the ICU bed, on to a labour ward bed, that labour ward bed, then went with me to post natal. So I got like, this little rhythm set up, you know, 10 days, well, that by that point, it would have been seven days in the same bed, you get used to kind of like using your pillows in a certain way to pop your arms up and things like that. And then suddenly, I've come home, and my whole sitting position, everything was all different. I was fortunate enough that because of my scenario, my midwifery my community midwifery support was extended. So I actually got a month or 28 days of time with my community with my wife who I could opt to see, like once a week if I wanted to. So I love my community wife Grace, she was absolutely my like, lovely daughter. Yeah, and she was absolutely again, I there's so many cheerleaders I had in my store, like what happened to me there were, I don't want to kind of put the sunshine and rainbows on it. Like there were some really dark, terrible times. But I do want to say like, it really is the people around somebody that and a family that goes through this, those people there it is, you know, their day job. But the support, support advocacy, the championing that they do, even in the normal scenarios, and but in my scenario, which everyone felt this wasn't really normal, really went beyond So luckily, Grace kind of came and visited and I've run for something going on with my nipples. It's incredibly painful and embarrassing to hospital. What's going on because everyone's gone from this scenario where I can kind of postnatal not so much, but while I was in one to one, like high dependence, I had one to one midwifery and high dependency, once I got the laptop going myself, I could get somebody to come in and kind of have an eyeball, or just to send check because he was so unsure in those early days, like, you know, anybody going on to have their second third or multiple children? I think if you've breastfed before you kind of get what it really should feel like and you should you kind of understand what it should look like. And you get told about this, you know, can you see that in a nose airways clears and nice kitchen tucked, but you're still really unsure because you're a little bit like, that still doesn't feel quite right. It looks right but it doesn't feel right. And Grace was like the best person for telling me if it doesn't feel right, get that baby back on. And you know, giving me some tips around just getting that position and attachment comfortable that actually subsequently went on to heal some of that initial nipple trauma that I caused myself going home and being in that you know, different chair different so that's the other thing to mention is you know, think about those things that context which of Where did you learn your initial latching? And then as baby gets big, which happened to me quite quickly, thinking about speaking to, you know, a certified lactation consultant, like yourself around many people in your network, to talk about those changes, you know, and making sure you shuffling baby down and things like that. Because those are all things that I wasn't aware of. And I'm in this like, new home environment is like beautiful, you know, pre brought like rocking chair that I had these great hopes of like nursing this baby. Nothing like my hospital bed. Nor can I actually even get up to that chair because it's in a different room and the different house in the different parts of the house that I can't currently get the stairs to get up the stairs to with the baby. So, you know, there was all this relearning that I had to go through. And I think yeah, you know, if you don't have that somebody saying to you, if it's not comfortable, make it comfortable. I think there's a big thing I would say is remember that that context switch can disrupt a heck of a lot of what things feel like, and I didn't really realise it at the time. And I was causing a lot of like nipple pain and trauma through that.

Emma Pickett  35:51

Yeah, no, thanks for highlighting that. Definitely. It's all about the extra centimetres and millimetres and support. And also the context is king. That's for sure. So you're now at six months, and breastfeeding is obviously going really well. Do you have any thoughts in your head about how long you want to breastfeed for? Are you allowing yourself to create goals? You're just taking it one day at a time at the moment?

Leanne Fitzpatrick  36:09

Great question. Because I think before when, you know, before childbirth, so to speak, when I was pregnant. And if you'd asked me that question, I would be like, Oh, just for you to like six months, you know, big shout out to my mom who fed me until I was three months. And now he's Combi fed. And she was one of those, you know, sad stories of somebody who was told she should stop breastfeeding, because she had, you know, like, some pins and needles coming with breastfeeding. And the only option that she was told by the doctors was to stop. And so that context for me was like, Well, if I can get to three months, you know, that will be great. That's kind of like you do look to your kind of your your heroes in those scenarios. And for me, that was like, my mom says, like, oh, well, if I can get to three months, that will be great post kind of the scenario went through and getting breastfeeding, working, kind of how I happened across your content, Emma, and your books was actually through going to a health worker to say, I don't see breastfeeding ever. And I don't want to like freak anyone out? You know, I think it was a great episode that talked about family pressure and breastfeeding. And someone said, oh, you know, feed the baby till they go to university is a bit of a joke, you know, I might end up actually using that as my joke, if I can feel any pressure on myself. No, I'm not going to be that it's not going to be that scenario. But I just don't see any end for it at the moment. And I think that's underlined by the fact that it has, for us personally on our journey for Logan and I it's been such a critical part of our bond, you know, breastfeeding enabled a relationship to blossom that is now beyond breastfeeding, that I don't think maybe it might have taken a lot longer for that relationship to have really blossomed and that the feelings that I have around logon of joy and all that you talked about earlier about, you know, this ultimate love, and I've completely forgotten that unconditional love. There we go, that unconditional love that you have for your baby has blossomed through the breastfeeding and therefore I just don't see an end to it at the moment. But there's a whole road you know, journey on our road around for me around three months, I like my mum got a lot of pins and needle pain, a lot of like impact of luck and just getting quite a lot heavier picking him up as a court night was you know, and I remember lying awake at one point be like I want to give up breastfeeding. But I just don't know how I can continue on with this pain. And that was a nipple pain that was like physical body exhaustion, I think, you know, my body was still recovering from this really like substantial event that had gone through. And just like tendinitis, I've got a lot of pain in my thumbs and in my fingers. And I used to wake up real bad pins and needles around that three to four month phase, and maybe a bit earlier as and two to three months. And so there's been a lot of points in the road where I thought, oh, do I want to go on. But I think having Rory in my corner has been really positive. He's been the one to kind of say, You really, I feel like you should just keep going. Just just keep going. And sometimes you need that sometimes you don't want that. But sometimes you do need that person reminding you just how important that act, let's say is between you and for us. It still is. So I think there really still hiccups in the road. We might have nursing strikes coming up who knows but 

Emma Pickett  39:41

don't jinx it. Lots of people do not have nursing strikes. Let's just say that that nursing strikes are by no means inevitable. So don't think that's necessarily going to happen for you. I'm so pleased this is where we are you are now Leanne I really am and I think you're also not only an advert for breastfeeding successfully after blood loss but also So breastfeeding successfully after a C section, you know, your milk not really being delayed coming in after a C section, despite that enormous trauma your body went through your body was like, No, we're doing this, this lactation thing is happening. We're gonna make this happen. And, and it did. And I'm so glad that was that was what you know how things ended for you when it comes to the breastfeeding and, and I'd like you to come back and tell me about the end of your breastfeeding in however many years time whenever you get to that point, and we'll talk about how your weaning journey went. Yeah, so I'm just really clear this is this is where you are. And if anyone has listened to this, and it's been upsetting for them because of their own birth experience. Again, a shout out for birth trauma, debriefing services, and talking therapies that focus on postnatal trauma and birth trauma, these these services are available to you. Is there anything in particular, you'd want to say to someone who's listened to this, who has had some feelings brought up about their own birth? 

Leanne Fitzpatrick  40:53

Yeah, I would say that. When making that decision, particularly after blood loss or trauma around how to feed your baby, or though, you know, there's a lot around this, like Fed is best, I would just say there is a reason why formula exists. And I was lucky in my scenario that my body responded really positively. And equally, I had a lot of support in place that allowed me to make that happen. That isn't everybody's and I think coming to terms with that is a really hard thing if you haven't had the right support in place. And so be kind to yourself. And also, Formula exists for a reason, okay. And it's absolutely fine to go on that journey. And, you know, be positive and, and happy with that journey and develop your, your bond with your baby in your own way, because it will happen. So just be really kind, I think being kind to yourself is something that after trauma has to be underlined, and also allowing yourself to be sore and hurt and upset and allowing those emotions. And if you can, finding someone just to sit with you, whether that's therapy, whether that's a partner, whether that's a family member, whether that's your baby, if that's safe, just to go through those emotions, and just let it out a little bit without judgement. And because it's, it's hard, right, no matter what, how will your childbirth when it's hard. So be be kind to yourself, even if that's has had, maybe not the desired impact on your feeding journey. 

Emma Pickett  42:34

Yeah, I like what you said a while ago about how you don't have to tie everything up in a neat bow. It's okay to say I'm not 100% Okay, with what happened, I'm not necessarily ever going to be signing that box and saying, fix now cured now sorted now. You know, that's going to be part of who you are forever. And, you know, there are there are good things about that, and the hard things about that. 

Leanne Fitzpatrick  42:59

And I'm, yeah, I don't know if we're bringing this to an end. But I think just the one thing I would say is that I still got a lot. You know, in the early days, there was so much of this is Leann better is Leon 100%, hopefully, and 100%. Now, and I think one of the things that me and my husband did really well was we double teamed on saying I never gonna be 100%. And I think, like, we did lose a few relationships through being that way. Or maybe those some of those relationships have become a bit more strained through being that way. But also, it's your story, it's your experience, it's your journey. And it's okay to not be 100% i It's gonna be a long time until I'm 100%. I might sound kind of in control of the story itself. But they're, you know, emotions come and go. And so if you can you feel comfortable letting people know, even if it's years after something that's been that's happened to you, I'm still not 100% like my body and my mind, my emotions have changed. But that doesn't mean I can't be like a new version of me and put myself together in a way that I'm comfortable with. But it doesn't mean I'm going to go back to who I was, like, pay and I don't want to make that sound really negative.

Emma Pickett  44:15

I feel like doesn't sound negative at all. It sounds really healthy and really positive. And I think what you said about you know, is Leon back to normal is the and 100%. That I think that's really important to challenge that. And I'm glad you're in a place where you've got people around you who let you be that way, which is really good. And so you know, we said a minute ago, you know, six months is early days for Rory, it's early days for you to I mean, it's you know, there's a you're on a journey. And there's a while to go and I'm so grateful for you for joining me today and sharing your story. Thank you so much, Leanne. I'm really grateful. Thank you for for volunteering. And I know for some people it would have been quite tough to hear. And I'm just Yeah, I'm just so glad that you've ended up being where you are. And and as I said you're a poster poster. also breastfeeding determination, winning at the end of the day, but also a poster girl for the importance of good support. Monique and grace and all those midwives in the in the high dependency unit and that you know, the team that told you what had happened and talked you through and helped you feel that sense of control. There are so many health professionals and breastfeeding supporters who really helped you get to where you are as well today. So thank you for highlighting them. 

Leanne Fitzpatrick  45:23

And thank you to them and thank you to you for having me and letting me chat through and it's been really lovely to chat to you.

Emma Pickett  45:28

A great pleasure. Thank you. 

Emma Pickett  45:34

Thank you for joining me today. You can find me on Instagram at Emma Pickett IBCLC and on Twitter @MakesMilk. It would be lovely if you subscribed because that helps other people to know I exist. And leaving a review would be great as well. Get in touch if you would like to join me to share your feeding or weaning journey, or if you have any ideas for topics to include in the podcast. This podcast is produced by the lovely Emily Crosby Media.