Tracey's story - breastfeeding triplets

My guest today has achieved something that many people don’t think is possible - breastfeeding triplets. Tracey Chow-Seegoolam was already feeding her son Miles when she found out she was pregnant with three more babies. 

In our conversation, we talk about how Miles weaned during the pregnancy, where Tracey found support and advice for breastfeeding multiples, how she built up her supply through the hard work of triple feeding and pumping, and how she continues to feed Lewis, Felix and Elodie. It’s a story of determination, self-belief and the importance of getting accurate information and support. Breastfeeding multiples, including triplets, is definitely possible.

Find Tracey on Instagram @tracey.c.s 

Find support for breastfeeding multiples from www.breastfeedingtwinsandtriplets.co.uk and their Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/BfTwinsUk/?locale=en_GB

My new book, ‘Supporting the Transition from Breastfeeding: a Guide to Weaning for Professionals, Supporters and Parents’, is out now.

You can get 10% off the book at the Jessica Kingsley press website, that's uk.jkp.com using the code MMPE10 at checkout.

Follow me on Twitter @MakesMilk and on Instagram  @emmapickettibclc or find out more on my website www.emmapickettbreastfeedingsupport.com

This podcast is presented by Emma Pickett IBCLC, and produced by Emily Crosby Media.

Transcript

Hi. I'm Emma Pickett, and I'm a lactation consultant from London. When I first started calling myself Makes Milk, that was my superpower at the time, because I was breastfeeding my own two children. And now I'm helping families on their journey. I want your feeding journey to work for you from the very beginning to the very end. And I'm big on making sure parents get support at the end to join me for conversations on how breastfeeding is amazing. And also, sometimes really, really hard. We'll look honestly and openly about that process of making milk. And of course, breastfeeding and chest feeding are a lot more than just making milk. 

Emma Pickett  00:46

Thank you very much for joining me for today's episode. I'm here with Tracey Chow-Seegoolam, and she is from Northern Ireland. And she's here today to talk about her breastfeeding experience. And you've probably noticed from the show title, that she had a breastfeeding experience that perhaps isn't universal in that she breastfed triplets. Not only did she breastfeed triplets, but she also breastfed older child first. So she knew what it was like to breastfeed a singleton before triplets came along. And one thing I'm going to ask you to help me with today, Tracey is I'm aware that there's a very fine balance with people saying, Wow, brilliant, fantastic. I'm just so amazed at you and I'm so impressed with you and you should be absolutely so proud of your journey. And it sometimes tips into really irritating oh my god, how the hell did you do that? Oh, my God, that's I just don't understand. I can't kind of possibly get my head around it and, and it just becomes sort of like gormless gawping and you don't really know how to get the balance. Right. So if I, if I tip into gormless gawping and overdo the Wow, you're amazing. You have my full permission to say something to me and give me a poke. Is that fair? 

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  01:56

Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Um, yeah, I'm really excited to be here. Thanks for having me. 

Emma Pickett  01:59

Good. Good. Thank you. So you've got Miles, who's four, and he was your first child. And let's just do the quick Miles breastfeeding experience. First, how was your breastfeeding experience with him? And was it complicated? What was your What was your journey like with Miles? 

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  02:15

No, I think that went quite well, I pretty smoothly. I had an outside the UK. So where we had private health care, and there was a lactation consultant in the hospital on call. And so it was quite a good experience to have someone you know, there on the ward right away with me to help get him latched on and stuff. And probably Initially, I thought I would like I'll just, I'll see how it goes. I'll give it a go. But maybe I'll I thought, you know, maybe I'd need formula, or I just see how it goes. And I hadn't really seen a lot of people breastfeeding yet. But actually, it was quite normal, where I was living in Dubai, to breastfeed and the local culture, there was very pro breastfeeding. So that helped. I see him like friends that are having their kids that was quite encouraging them to give it a go. And by that point, I did have a couple of like cousins or family here who were also starting to breastfeed, so that kind of otherwise before a lot, I was like, No, I wouldn't breastfeed. But once I started, people see and people doing it, I thought, Oh, I'll give it a go. And then yeah, it was really great to have the help and hospital and your sustain for like four nights in the hospital. So that was really good to get a school and with breastfeeding. And then yeah, I think pretty normal journey throughout it, I guess it took a while to adjust to that kind of normal newborn behaviour and realise, you know, that your little baby is out in the big bad world and just wants to be cuddled. And they don't want to be put down in a pram or in the cart. And that is okay, which that took a bit of an adjustment because I always kind of understood that, you know, you feed them and then you put them in the cart, and, you know, they'll sleep for two or three hours, whatever. But that was never the case with any of my kids. So yeah, he was quite a, he didn't sleep that well, like he was very cat nappyd, do a lot of cat napping and had lots of little feeds little often. And you know, otherwise, though, seemed like a very normal breastfeeding journey. And then, yeah, I fed him till he was almost two.

Emma Pickett  04:19

And you were and you were found out, you're pregnant when you're breastfeeding him and you were at that stage, you know, you're obviously practising kind of, you know, what some people call extended breastfeeding, he was, you know, well beyond his is his one year and, and you were you sort of fit in at night as well. You hadn't done any sort of weaning or partial weaning. 

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  04:37

Yeah, he was very much still feeding through the night when he was like about 18 months. I think he was about 18 months when I started to try and cut back on the night feeds, because I was still getting the buy for sleep. So I just wanted a bit more sleep as well. So we sort of started trying to adjust his routine and you know, give him not feed right Before bed, but kind of bracket off and do other things in between the feed and bedtime just to try and get a bit more sleep.

Emma Pickett  05:06

I'm trying to work out you're in terms of your fertility is that when you got pregnant when you've made those adjustments? Yes, you've got pregnant, your body was like tiny gaps at nighttime we're fertilising this egg. Let's go for it. So you got pregnant quite quickly without certainly without fully weaning. And when you found out you're pregnant, your original plan was to carry on breastfeeding through pregnancy. What were you thinking about how you'd manage that?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  05:29

Yes, I thought I would keep breastfeeding Miles. And if a new baby came along, and Miles was still breastfeeding, I would turn them feed them. And then when I found I tie many babies, I was having second time around, I thought, that probably wouldn't be possible. And also, looking back, I don't know why I was doing it. But I was still actually expressing some milk and send that into nursery with miles in the daytime, we would have like a cup of milk in the day as well. But once I got pregnant, like when I was expressing, like, I wasn't getting anything anymore. So that kind of cut out that feed in the middle of the day as well, or that milk in the middle of the day. And then I just find, I think my supply just dried up over those first couple of months of the pregnancy because then I felt more like he was kind of dry nurse and I find it quite, it feels bad to say it, but it's like a bit annoying. Like it was painful. And it was just a wee bit annoying. And I 

Emma Pickett  06:24

Tracey, nobody would nobody would say that would fit you'd feel but you should feel bad for saying that it's dry nursing is not for everybody, it can be really uncomfortable. Plus, you've got hormonal sensitivity at the beginning of pregnancy as well. So you know, please don't please don't say you. Obviously you're welcome to feel bad. But I don't think anyone listening would say that you should be feeling bad. And if I ask questions now that are too prying, I want you to get again to tell me to get stuffed, but you found that you were pregnant, you got a regular positive pregnancy test. And at what stage did you find out you're having triplets?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  06:55

I think edit the pregnancy tests around. Like when you would expect to think oh, well, maybe I'm pregnant, though. So like around the four weeks or whatever. But before that I was feeling very nauseous already. So I thought well, maybe this is, you know, maybe it's happened. And then yes, so I got the positive tests at four weeks. And then I wanted to book a private scan. Because in Dubai, we had a lot more scans with my as it was just normal there. So we'd always said if we had a baby here, we'd probably do an early private scan just to see how things are. So I had that seven weeks. And the midwife, she was scanning away like checking. And I was, you know, I just felt like she was taking ages. And because it was seven weeks, and I just thought something must be wrong. And you know, she's asked me to move around and stuff. And I was like, Oh, my God, what's wrong? And then eventually, she told us that there was definitely two babies, but she thought there might be three. So I was just really relieved actually, to know there was still something there because I Okay, I was wondering like what's wrong. So I was really relieved there was a baby. And then there was actually more than one. But I was just happy to know, things were fine. But I remember afterwards. So my husband was there. And also Myles was with us because it was a private clinic. And I remember leaving after and we're just in shock and driving to my parents house where we were going for dinner and to tell them and I just remember like driving through my like miles, he just loves cars and tractors in the countryside. And he was just babbling away the whole time about what he could see out the window. I was just like, like, Please, can you be quiet? Like, I need to think about this. Like, I'd have three babies. So that was quite tough then and also just wondering, like, what was I going to do until I find out how many babies there were. And my husband, he was like, well, we'll need a different car. Like we might need to move house. And there's like no, just wait, because if there's two theories will be fine. If it's three, then maybe we need a new car. And I thought the lady who did the scan. She was like, Oh no, it's fine. Just wait until your normal hospital appointment. Yeah, right. Like that's gonna follow. So that night, I was like, I'm just I'll just go to another clinic and get another private scan and see. And she actually messaged me the next morning and said, Come back at 10 weeks. I think she was probably curious as well to know how many there were. So I managed to wait the three weeks, which was really tough as well, because I also I knew about vanishing twin syndrome. So I Okay, I was I tried not to think about it, of course, but I did used to think like, oh, well what if there was one if there had been three and I go back and there's only two I'll always wonder, you know was Had there been a third and now there's only two. So when we were back at 10 weeks, I was actually really happy and relieved to know that there were three babies and then it was just nice to know the number and we could start planning them to think okay, you know, do we need a new car or you know, how do we make the house work and Yeah, it was just good to find out then.

Emma Pickett  10:02

Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I'd like to ask you about is how soon sort of breastfeeding came into your mind, because from one thing I've heard from second round time round, was the phrase fractured second round, I can't say people who've had a baby first, and then they go on to have multiples. If they've had a really successful breastfeeding experience, the first time round, there can be this element of am I not going to be able to have that kind of positive breastfeeding experience? Because I'm having multiples? Am I going to have that sort of taken away, as it were, and that I don't mean to sort of put a negative spin on it. But that is the experience. I've heard from other people. You're talking about cars and houses. But did you? Did you have a moment of, oh, my god, am I not gonna be able to breastfeed it? 

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  10:42

Like, I know, that was one of my earliest thoughts as well, like, Oh, if it's three, like I just won't be able to breastfeed, and it was very much in my head, it was a all or nothing kind of scenario. And I obviously thought you'd have twins, well, that must be possible, you've got two those, that's probably possible, but three, like, You're just supposed to be able to do it. And I work in digital marketing. So I know a lot about how Google works. Like, I work a Google search for a living. So I should know that you could Google these things. But I don't know. I don't really don't remember how I found the information. But yeah, I remember reading like blogs and stuff about breastfeeding triplets, or I think there was one in particular that I had found. And then at some point, eventually, I came across the breastfeeding twins and triplets charity as well. And their Facebook group, which, yeah, that's definitely what made me think, realise that it is possible. And I think initially, I gather, I sort of went in with the mindset, like, I'll give it a go. And I think, because everyone else didn't think it was possible. I didn't want to kind of tie myself into something or you know, tell everyone what was gonna do it and then may not be able to do it. So I was just like, oh, yeah, I'll give it a go and see how it goes. 

Emma Pickett  11:54

Yeah. When you say that other people didn't feel it was possible. Do you mean, sort of friends and family or health professionals? What kind of messaging were you getting in pregnancy about feeding?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  12:04

No, probably both. Just even people say, Oh, you're not gonna breastfeed them or that or you are, you know, in the hospital and friends and family, or, you know, people do still breastfeed and riles. So they might have said, like, Oh, you're not gonna breastfeed these ones, too. Or like, how are you going to breastfeed them? So yeah, and even in the hospitals, it was general, just disbelief that well, how could you do that? And so, yeah, just all round up, like my husband, he was so supportive, he was like, Yeah, whatever, like, I'll support you with whatever you want to do. And he has, like, also, like, the support from him has been amazing. And he keeps me fed and watered my life, feed and water them. So like, that is really helpful as well to have him on board and never want to say like, Oh, do you think it'd be easier if we get formula? Or, you know, he's never like, pressured me to change anything? Or, you know, give any more formula? Or, you know, yeah, try and finish earlier, either. So, he's always been very on board with how I wanted to feed them and like progress with him. So yeah, it's been good. 

Emma Pickett  13:10

Yeah, let's, let's clone your husband. Get more of him around the world. He sounds a very valuable partner in this process. Yeah. So you're pregnant. You've got triplets. Myles, is breastfeeding and sort of tapering off at that point. Were people saying to you, oh, my God, you better wean miles because you cannot you absolutely can't breastfeed in pregnancy if you've got triplets. And did you get any of that messaging? Or were you able to sort of do it at your own pace?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  13:33

I don't think so. Not so much. So, yeah, I kinda did it at my own pace, but I do remember call enough Lashley helpline to be like, like, I was expressing, like, a cup of milk for my son, and I'm just not getting anything anymore. Like what's wrong? And then I told her that I was pregnant with triplets and she was like, that's probably what's wrong, all the hormones. And so, yeah, no, I think that was very much. I was able to make that kind of as my own personal choice, but it was hard for him as well. Like, obviously, he was still getting some comfort from the dryness. And so it was a bit of an adjustment. But what he started doing instead was like, cuddling my belly, like the bump. And two years later, he still cuddles the bump every day. He needs the bump. It's not a bump anymore. Every day he needs his belly Cuddles, the triplets are self eaten. They'll have their milk and then he needs his belly cuddles. So yeah, there was something else to come for them.

Emma Pickett  14:30

Yeah, you could system and I bet you had a quite impressive belly as well. So it's definitely impressed if you could bump to cuddle at that point. So when you said you found other blogs and other stories, how many triplet breastfeeding stories Did you find when you were pregnant? How many are sort of out there? I bet you're you're now somebody's breastfeeding triplet stories. Someone listening to this will be taking you as their story. But what what kind of inspiration did you find out there?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  14:55

I think I only can really remember one blog that I read And I can remember it because I used to wonder like, how could you do with and I was actually quite upset because things are going well with Miles breastfeed them. I was a bit upset like, Oh, but I wouldn't be able to, I thought I wouldn't be able to breastfeed them. So I did find this one blog. I think maybe she was in America. And she was talking about how she would breastfeed them one after the other. So I thought, Oh, well, it is possible. And that's how you do it. And then I met, someone had a triple bogey for sale on the marketplace, in Northern Ireland. So I went to see this buggy, and that mum had breastfed her triplets. So probably meeting her in person as well really helped, I'd be able to talk to her and hearing her story really helped me realise that it was possible. And to know that if I had some questions or died, that it could be possible, then that she was there. And I could ask, and I don't remember. I think it was quite late in the pregnancy that I found the breastfeeding twins and triplets. Group. But that then was an amazing resource. And if I see any triplet moms posts in there, I'm like, okay, like, what can I how can I help her? What advice can I give? So try and return the favour?

Emma Pickett  16:09

It's interesting, when you're talking about some of those sort of doubts in the early days, you're talking about the sort of logistics like, I've only got two boobs, you know, do I do I do both together? And then the other one comes on and gets a chance to feed from both sort of stuff. But you're not, you're not talking about having enough milk? You're not talking about production? Was that something that you were getting sort of negative vibes about? Or how are you feeling about that when you were pregnant?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  16:33

Yeah, I think actually, now that you say it, I would have wondered, could I make enough milk? Or people might have said, well, how would you make enough milk, but what I knew from miles anyway, and when, because in Dubai, you usually get like, I think I had three months maternity leave. So when I was going back to work I was planning to express for him. And I can remember talking to my boss at the time to say like, Look, I need to express while I'm at work, and there that you had your period, breastfeeding breaks as well. So I remember telling them like I've made breaks to express because it's a supply and demand situation. So I really need to protect my supply by expressing milk. So I did, yeah, I had an idea about supply and demand. And I realised as long as I can produce and remove enough milk, then I should be able to build up that supply. And yeah, being able to talk to other seeing that blog or talking to this other triplet man, I understand that it is possible for people to build up that supply. So that helped to realise that I could do it. But there was a lot of data in the early days, if it was actually possible to get that supply up. And that took a lot of hard work. So but it was possible. 

Emma Pickett  17:45

Yeah, I can imagine. So I guess one of the other things that can bring a bit more of a challenge is giving birth to babies that are early. So I have an episode of my podcast when I talked to Katherine, who's the founder of the charity we've been talking about. So I'll make sure we'll put that we'll put a link to the charity in the show notes. that Facebook group absolutely has transformed lives has just celebrated its 10 year anniversary is so brilliant. And one of the things that she talks about is obviously late preterm, early term, preterm babies can be more challenging. So for some people, that's the challenge, not necessarily even having more than one baby. How did their birth go? What happened at the end of your pregnancy? 

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  18:22

I got to 35 weeks, four days, so I was mad when 35 weeks and then they didn't have enough cots in the neonatal. So they sent me home and I came back a few days later. And yeah, turns out we didn't need the cots in neonatal. So it worked out well. So we had a plan C section. Yeah, everything seemed quite positive after and we were in the recovery suite, probably for most of the day till about midnight. So there weren't about 2pm. And then we're in the recovery mode or sweets, whatever it's called. And then I went off to the maternity ward around midnight with the three of them. My husband, who was still there, like the week before that just changed the COVID restrictions. So partners could stay in I like all through the day, but they couldn't stay overnight. So he was still with me when I went up to the ward and got settled. And then he left. Me and the three babies. They're on the ward. And yeah, I think the vibe was quite positive. You know, they weren't in an incubator. They were they were in an incubator together, because that's where they could fit, but they didn't leave the incubator switched on. They didn't need any oxygen or anything. So for triplets, like the pregnancy went pretty smoothly. And yeah, like they were pretty healthy when they were born. Which I'm really really grateful for, I think I was probably in a bit of a he is of joy that they were all here and find because you obviously have a lot of scabs when you're having multiples and we were quite lucky they all had their own socks and placenta so they were the lowest risk triplets. But you'd have your scans every two weeks and then every one week and you'd feel quite good Happy and settled, everything was fine for about a day and then even like, right, next scab is everything's still okay. So I think initially, I was just very happy that they were all here and they were fine. But yeah, then we had quite a rocky start, I think we actually went home from the hospital after three nights. So everything seemed to be going okay. Although they had lost quite a lot of weight, or they'd lost between like 10 and 12% of their birth weight each. But it's, they'd let us go home. And then we're having like daily visits from a midwife. But then we actually ended up back on the paediatric ward. Because my daughter, she was up to like over 16% and weight loss. And she had a very low temperature as well. So we got readmitted then on day five to the paediatric ward. And then the two boys, they also had low temperatures, so they got admitted. And they were all put when my daughter she was put in an incubator under the lights as well, because she was very jaundice. And the two boys, they were just on like a heated mattress together in one court, and to get their temperatures up as well. And I suppose I thought things were going okay, like they were all latched on. They were getting, like syringes top off as well after. And I think I was just saying that he as if like, everyone's here, and it's okay. And I was getting like one or two hours sleep. So things just weren't going as well as I suppose we thought. So I'm really grateful for that midwife that came and sent us back to the paediatric ward. Yeah, just to have someone else seeing that things aren't quite right or whatever. So it was like day five. And then that's when I, the doctor then was telling me Look, you need these babies need X amount of milk throughout the day. And I was like, well, that's three babies off so much milk, like how am I going to make that milk. And it was then on the paediatric Ward, which was I think every multiple parents should be put on this ward because we had our own sideboard, me, my husband, he could stay all the time. Me, him and the three babies and we had our bathroom and we would have a health care system coming in to help with the battlefields. I'm like this, like this would be a museum after delivery. So yeah, basically, when we were in there, the plan was, we started then triple feeding, I was expressing with the hospital grade pump after every feed. And we were waking them for a feed every three hours, and then I would express and at that point, just to get their waists back up and get them able to maintain their temperature, I would breastfeed one directly. And then two of them would have a bottle of express milk, and a little bit of formula as well while I was working on getting the supplier, and we'd had donor milk on the maternity ward. And a relative actually brought me some milk in as well, some of her express milk and four tops too. So we were in there for five nights there. And that was all about just getting that supply up. So I don't really think my milk came in until about day 10. And I didn't realise at the time about the great pretenders, as Catherine had called them. Are you uncomfortable? But I wish when I heard that I was like, God, I wish I'd known this at the time. And that they might seem to be feeding efficiently, but they're actually not often. 

Emma Pickett  23:14

Yeah, so what so they were latching on well, you weren't any pain. It felt effective, but they were just a bit jaundiced. A bit sleepy. Yeah. Not quite stimulating your supply. Okay.

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  23:25

Yeah, I'm not able to keep their temperatures up there. But also, I've had like, quite a decent blood loss, which I also didn't know what affects my supply.

Emma Pickett  23:35

Okay, yeah, I was going to ask you about the delay in your milk coming in. So for anyone who's not kind of, in the know, normally, our milk would transition from colostrum somewhere between day to day five in that window. So if that's not until day 10, something else is going on. So your your blood loss could definitely be a factor that could cause that. So you've had a lot going on at this point. And anyone who's, who knows anything about triple feeding knows how intense it is, but to triple feed the volume that you're producing. Yeah, you're literally pumping for much more time than somebody who's only feeding a singleton. Do you remember what sort of volumes you're talking about? In that time? We were in hospital? What was the sort of typical experience for you? 

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  24:15

Oh, I remember, like at the start, there was maybe like 10 mils or like it was it really didn't seem like much but, you know, in those very early days, I know they didn't need loads either. But I think by the day a tan or when we were going home, I was up to maybe 600 to 800 mil a day across all of the expressing sessions. So I think I would try and do about eight a day after the feeds and I was always like playing catch up like, initially it was always catch up. Okay. Do we have enough milk for the next week? Or who's gonna get the formula and because my daughter Elodie, she was the most sick I would say, I was like, right, I just want her to have I want her to get all the Express milk. And the boys, I'll rotate them on the breast and they can have formula if they need it, or they can have the leftover express milk. And yeah, I think by the end that was, by the time we went home, I was getting maybe 600 700 mil a day, plus direct breastfeeding. And I remember my mother, not like she lives in England, but she's a midwife. I remember her telling my husband like, that was really great at this stage of starting to express like that volume was really great. And I hope she takes her offence that she's probably quite hard to impress. So I took that as huge for us. But she thought this was good. So and yeah, like we did, we were basically had enough to keep going with the direct breastfeeding and the top ups. But we never really got ahead of ourselves for a while, like we never had a stash for a long time. And which I know you don't need a stash, but it felt like it was needed when there were three of them, basically.

Emma Pickett  25:55

Yeah, I think that's understandable. So your husband didn't have to go back to work super soon. By the sounds of it. You were able to get a bit more support with him for the trouble feeding.

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  26:03

Yeah. So I think he had two weeks paternity. And then he had saved up annual leave as well. So we had a month off for this. Then, like at the same time. The world of us. No five of us were all in the paediatric Ward and miles. He was at home with his granddad. 

Emma Pickett  26:18

Yeah, I was gonna ask about Miles. This is this is a tough experience to be separated from your your two year old so early on. Tracey, I, I totally understand, honestly, anybody would understand how difficult that must have been for you to be separated from him. Yeah, I mean, take a moment if you want to get yourself together. I mean, what are your thoughts? When you think about that time and you think about miles, obviously, I can see it's upsetting for you to think about that time. 

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  26:42

Yeah. Yeah, I think I felt bad because like, I could do less and less with him. The more practice I got. Sorry, I was expected this. If anything, I'd be quiet earlier. Yeah, because I got quite like I couldn't do a lot of activity with him. He was always very much a mama's boy. But through the pregnancy got very close and with my husband, and he was a real daddy's boy then so I did feel really guilty for him. Not having either of us arrived. But really grateful for my father in law, like being able to come over. And yeah, look after him for the week, live with them for the week, take them to nursery. Yeah, it was quite tough, because my husband could go home. And like, you know, get supplies, I could change the clothes or whatever. And he would kind of hang around and go like go at a time that he would be at home and maybe help put him to bed and stuff. So I suppose he still did have that. Yeah, that kind of connection. But yeah, that was hard being away from him. But also, so consuming the end of the hospital as well. Yeah.

Emma Pickett  27:58

So I guess at least you'd had that chance to come home. And and he'd he'd met the babies and you know, he you'd have those few days. Not that that was necessarily the most easy, relaxing time in your life. But he met you all and then you obviously had to go back in hospital. And then when you came home from hospital, you were able to kind of carry on with the breastfeeding. Was there ever a moment when anyone said to you, maybe you shouldn't be breastfeeding? Or did you get that message from anybody when you are going through this difficult time? 

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  28:26

Yeah, I think so. And I think you know, even when we were on the paediatric ward, and people were coming in and going, like healthcare assistants, nurses, doctors, they could see the effort that was being put in, but they maybe still didn't believe that it was possible to actually breastfeed droplets. So but yeah, when I got home, I think people were probably like family and friends. Probably. Were saying it more of a take care of yourself. Yeah. Do you need to do this to yourself. And I think there were moments for me like I had this big, like, it was a hospital grade pump from the community midwife, but it was like, I called the corner of the living room was the milking parlour because this pump was so noisy, like it was like worker. So I would just go and sit in my corner of the milking parlour and hook myself up to this pump. And there were nights where I would literally be expressing to give a topper or we would have used all the milk that was in the freezer. And I like I do remember sitting on the pump and having a cry like maybe I just don't can't make enough milk maybe it's it isn't possible. But yeah, I just kept going and you know, I was getting up in the night Express and after every feed basically, I get enough all through the night to do those pumping sessions as well, just to really persevere and make it happen. And I don't know if it was stubbornness or perseverance or what, but I made that happen. And I just, you know, kept telling myself that in the grand scheme of things, it will be such a short period of my life. And I'm given these babies such a great start if I could give them milk, and I probably was a bit too hard on myself, like, maybe I should have been a bit more relaxed, and maybe done can't be fading or something. But I, I just really wanted to, to breastfeed them and give them that milk. And I guess, as moms of multiples, we all will, we might wonder, you know, how we can give them all the attention they deserve, and give them everything they need. And maybe I felt a bit guilty, like I breastfed miles, really two years. I wanted to give them something as well. And if it wasn't for two years, just see how long I could do it for.

Emma Pickett  30:47

Yeah, that concept about being fair. I think a lot of people will relate to that, you know, miles got that and you and therefore your duty is to kill yourself to try and get the same for them. So you did get formula. Obviously, you talked about giving formula in the hospital, and after those weight losses. But you did eventually exclusively give a breast milk. Yeah. How long did that take to get to that stage?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  31:09

No, I think they only have formula in the hospital for like, one day, maybe one or two days? Yeah, I think that was it. Because I was then expressive enough to give them for their top ups. And then I also had this, like donor milk for my relative as well, which helped me then sort of catch up with what they needed. So I think it was a day or two, maybe like three or four balls for each of the boys over that time. But yeah, yeah, it was quite. Once I got going with the pump, I was very, very strict with. Okay, now it's time. Okay, you further time to express? No, maybe you get 30 minutes window to sleep or have a break? And then we go again.

Emma Pickett  31:57

Yeah, I mean, I know this is this is the bit where you're going to be tempted to stop me, but you know, how amazing you are, don't you? I mean, the way you're describing your level of determination, and, and sort of the things you're telling yourself about how this is only for a short time. I mean, that's, I can hear you've got this kind of inner pep talk that you're, you're just so motivated. And you know, you're obviously a very, very determined person. And, and I really hope you look back on that time with immense pride, because it is extraordinary that you were able to push through especially after, you know, the blood loss and and not having your milk coming in for 10 days. To get to a point of you know, giving your own milk and not giving formula at that point is something you know, you've had that goal, and that is the goal that you met in it. Now that you should be immensely proud of that. Yeah, amazing.

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  32:40

No, I'll take it because usually you're met with disbelief. And are you going to stop? No, have you done it enough yet? So yeah, it's always nice to hear nice words.

Emma Pickett  32:56

A little advert just to say that you can buy my four books online. You've Got It In You, a positive guide to breastfeeding is 99p as an e book, and that's aimed at expectant and new parents. The Breast Book published by Pinter Martin is a guide for nine to 14 year olds, and it's a puberty book that puts the emphasis on breasts, which I think is very much needed. And my last two books are about supporting breastfeeding beyond six months and supporting the transition from breastfeeding. For a 10% discount on the last two, go to Jessica Kingsley Press. That's uk.jkp.com and use the code MMPE10, Makes Milk Pickett Emma 10. Thanks.   

Emma Pickett  33:41

You must be very good at pumping and you must know how to give us some pumping amazing tips. I mean, did you have to fiddle around with flange sizes? Were you doing hands on pumping? Did you have a super duper bra? What was some of the things that you did to make pumping really doable? 

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  33:56

Yes, I had a double pump in nursing bra. So that definitely helped. And yes, I think I did eventually figure out about flange sizes. But honestly my go to is still either breastfeeding twins or Catherine stags blog post about expressing that even when I'm helping mums through peer support, for example, I'll be like, right, here's 10 things that you need to be thinking about when you're expressing but yeah, like the main things for me were another triplet mum had told me about power pumping. So I would write I would do a power pump session in the morning and maybe in the evening in those early days to get the supply going. And then I felt like maybe there was a dip in supply or something or at certain stages they were cluster feeding or thought maybe their needs had gone up a bit because again, the bit older, I would add in power pumping again for a few days to try and boost my supply. So yeah, power pumping. Not watching the pump or like not watching the bottles. I was very much a pump and was basically by Breck see Though I would get myself on the pump, and I'd be watching something that I enjoy on the TV, you know, even it was just, it was usually like 20 minutes. Some of it was an episode of Friends or like some other funny shows on Netflix that were easy to watch, I have a good distraction, I would usually be eating when there was a lot of eating for me as well. So you should be having some good snacks. Not not healthy, nice, tasty chocolate.

Emma Pickett  35:24

Hands free pumping for are very, very needed. And I love your logic of this is your break. I've never heard anyone say that before that makes perfect sense. If you've got the hat if you've got the hands free pumping rigged up, that is the time when you can sit down and do other things. And yeah, and you know, watch, watch your telly. And that makes perfect sense. I think some people be thinking But hang on, there were three babies. Where are the babies at this point? So how did you rig things up? So you could feel like you could do pump every single time. 

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  35:52

So they were still quite sleepy them you know, they weren't at their full term, full term yet. So we were so waking them for feeds, so it was easier to pump when they had to be woken up. So yeah, that helped my husband also he had the four weeks off, and my father in law was over as well. So that helped, too. But then I remember sort of panicking a bit when my husband was going back to work. And I was like, right, how am I going to stop this triple feed? And how am I going to get to exclusively directly breastfeeding three babies. And I remember asking in the Facebook group for breastfeeding twins and triplets, you know, is it possible to directly breastfeed triplets? Or will I always have to do some variation of triple feed or Combi feeding? And there were there was another triple bomb who said no, she managed I think maybe around eight weeks, she managed to stop triple feeding. So it was probably around that four week mark. I was like, right, I need to cut back on the bottles. And again, like that was a tough time. But I just tried to persevere and be like No, give me that baby back. Like let me put that baby back in the breast. And I just kind of kept rotating them. And I know there was a famines where I would just be on the sofa with my big tandem feeding pillow and I would just be rotating babies and dinner would be brought to me and I would try on either maybe I would ever hands free. And there'd be something on the TV to watch. And I would just keep rotating babies and trying to get through this. And I can remember reading other articles like I'm Kelly mum, for example, talking about the evening. Like unsettled evenings or whatever.

Emma Pickett  37:32

Yeah, fussy evenings. Yeah. Yeah. 

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  37:35

And I, I was like, read it and prepare yourself because maybe you know, people will be in a night to help after work or something. And I was like, right, remember, like, read it. Right? What does she say? It's normal. There based on your supply, they need comfort, it's okay, like cluster feeding is normal. And I can remember, you know, reading that to psych myself up in case any comments came like, do you think the need of all or, you know, to the need to top up so like, prepare myself, right? I've got my arguments ready. They're fine. Put the back of the breast, give them another little feed. And I think just in general, in society here, there's probably just a lot of work to do about normal babies. And you know, that they need comfort and they want to be fed often. And it's okay. And I think people like Katherine Stagg to create content about I remember, she did like a day in the life of her feed him and snack and drink him. And it's like, well, when you look at it like that, or I've seen posts lately about maybe it was even new. I can't remember sorry, about why shouldn't babies want to co sleep because adults go sleep? So you know, it's totally normal. And I think, I guess people just kind of forgotten that. And they, we just expect too much of babies. But I really just tried to go with it. And just take it a feet at a time as well. And even an hour at a time for the whole year probably. And just be like, right, get the next feed done, get them fed. Gotta we break. Okay, and we go again, and just keep going. And I think in those first months, I was I remember working out one day I fed like, spent 16 to 18 hours a day and maybe feed and unexpressed and, and change in their face. And that just blew my mind that what little time was left for my sleep and my feeder. But yeah, again, I was just thinking of it's a good start for them. And it's a short period of my life. So we'll go with it. 

Emma Pickett  39:30

Yeah, wow, I'm going to do another wow. You're describing not just a few days you're describing weeks and months of this very, very intense intense life and your husband's gone back to work at four weeks so you're at home and father in law did he say around or were you pretty much on your own 

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  39:49

No he had to go back then to England. So yeah, I was on my own a lot in the first year with them.

Emma Pickett  39:57

So you've got miles going to nursery but obviously being a I'm sometimes nursery. Then you've got Louis and Felix and Elodie, your triplets. And you're home alone. And some people be listening to this going. I literally don't understand I don't understand how you can do that. I don't how you doing nursery drop off and pickup, you've got three babies, there must have been times when there were tears and probably your tears as well. But there must have been times when, when there was a baby who was incredibly distressed, and there was nothing you could do because you had two other babies who were feeding. And in those very tricky moments when somebody was very sad, or angry or distressed, what sort of strategies were you using? How are you kind of getting through those moments?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  40:38

I'll say, sometimes I would just cry with them. Like, it was really hard to just feel like you couldn't meet the needs of your little baby. And that. And obviously, I was going to as soon as I could. But in the moment, yeah, it was very hard. So usually, I would have tried to tandem feed two of them. And the third then would have been in a bouncer. So we're trying to have like, there was like a weak bar over the top. So like, have some toys on it. And the bouncers we had like vibrate on as well. So I hope that would maybe settle them for a wee bit, and try and sing to them. And hopefully, there's no judgement, but

Emma Pickett  41:23

there is no judgement, try to see if there is no judge.

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  41:28

I probably could have maybe put the TV on earlier. But yeah, once they were, once they got a bit older, I would have like had the TV on as well with like some more not baby sensory, but like black and white stuff for colours. Like the dancing vegetables I can't remember what they're called now. So that would have been a bit of a distraction for a while. But no, there was a lot of time where one baby would have been crying waiting to be fed. And yeah, it was really, really hard. And I would just maybe have a cry. And it was helpful, like my husband worked from home. So you know, he would come down to his lunch break and help us or he would do the nursery drop off and pick up. So that helped as well. And then I wasn't have to, I didn't need to get four kids. And he also wasn't Russia night early in the morning. He was just going upstairs to work. So yeah, that did help as well. So it was a bit less stressful. But yeah, I didn't have to get the ball like the door and the more than either. 

Emma Pickett  42:24

Yeah, yeah. And after that initial weight loss issue that in the early days, when you're back in hospital, everything was okay. Then with weight moving forward, you didn't have any more sort of crises points with their weight gain.

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  42:35

No, they were mostly all fine all doing really well. I think it was around four months, then we they all had bronchitis and lost weight and dropped a couple of percentiles. But then once they were better, they call it up again. So we did have more frequent way at that time, just to check where they again and we had again, or did we need to do something else? So yeah, generally they were pretty healthy. And I think I'd stopped the triple feeding around probably like between two and three months. But I was still expressing each day. I think I was probably more than they would have one bottle before bed still have express milk. So still express them in the day, but it's very hard to express. Once there we had hit full term and you know, we're more awake, basically. Because then I would be on the pump and they would be crying. And so yeah, I had to like cut back a lot on the Express and then maybe once they would settle down in the evening, for a bit of a stretch, then I would maybe do a session then for the next night's bottle. But then eventually they just didn't want to bottle anymore. Even though the technique for so long was like no, I'm not gonna drink this bottle. 

Emma Pickett  43:53

Guys, come on, Louis Felix Elodie, come on! I'll give you I'll give you about something else to worry about. Okay.

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  44:00

And also at the same time. So I know there's like the forum fallacy for years. But Louis and Felix were very unsettled. And it was really hard to feed them and I had to switch to feed them one at a time. I'm literally walking around and bouncing them while they were latched on to keep them settled to have a feed. And then eventually, I was able to figure it out. If I did like a tandem lead back feed, while singing nursery rhymes to them really loudly they would settle down and feed. So there was some my husband and I talked sometimes but all the phases and stages that we've gone like over in those earlier months. 

Emma Pickett  44:44

Yeah, yeah. So you didn't let's think let's think of what you didn't have to worry about. You didn't have to worry about nipple pain. You didn't have any nipple damage or or pain. No. Okay. Thank goodness. Did you ever have mastitis because all that pumping and obviously when someone's Got a lot of milk? Sometimes we can be at greater risk of having blocked duck semesters. Did you ever hurt? Did you ever experience that?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  45:05

No, not until there were nine months. And now it was. Yeah, that was rough. Yeah. And then I've had it. I've had it twice since then. So, but no, in those earlier months, no.

Emma Pickett  45:17

Okay. And talk to us about sleeping, where is everybody at night? What are your kind of sleeping arrangements?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  45:23

So in the beginning, they were in a cot in our room, and they were all in one cart sort of lined up beside each other. And, you know, like at the foot of the cart, and then once once they started to move away, but I think we're rotated them. So there were sideways and the cotton had a wee bit more room each side of them. And once they got too big for that setup, we moved my daughter, she was quite irregular. And so we moved her moved elevate into next to me cot beside the bed, and then Lewis and Felix were in the big court at the end of the bed. And then I think there were about seven months, when we thought they need to go into their own, then we needed to split up loose and Felix as well. So we put them in their own room, then in their three cots in one bedroom. And then there was a lot of time spent on the rocking chair in their room as well.

Emma Pickett  46:19

Yeah, I was gonna say going through into another room, I can totally understand why you'd need to do that. Because you've probably got space for three courts and a regular bedroom. But did did your did your sleep suffer at that point? Because you were having to sort of physically get up and wave around more.

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  46:33

I'm probably probably no worse. Like I was getting like three or four hours sleep. So yeah, the sleep deprivation in the first 18 months was just unreal. But yeah, I don't think it was any worse having them in their own room. But that was something that I was thinking about like, right if I have to go to their room. Is that going to make it worse for me? But yeah, it wasn't any worse than when they were in our room. 

Emma Pickett  46:58

And Miles is in his own room at this point. He's got his own room and Yeah, after you had the babies, did he ever talk about breastfeeding again? What was what was his there? Was that it he weaned in pregnancy and never referred to again didn't ask to breastfeed again after after they were born.

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  47:15

No, I don't think so. Like, probably last year at one point or a couple of times he said it. But his story is kind of joking. always laugh at the guy that like or isn't he's trying his luck. But, ya know, he's, he was fine. I did think would he be a bit jealous? If he sees everything then why does he not get milk anymore? But no, he was he was great, yeah.

Emma Pickett  47:39

Yeah. And then when you're at home with the three of them and and miles as well. Some people listen to this going, Oh my God, tell me your tricks. Because I'm dealing with a baby and a toddler and I can't work out how to get the toddler occupied. What were some of the things that you would do with Miles, you're talking about pumping and feeding 18 hours a day. And you're also having to be a mum to miles as well. What were some of the things that you would do to sort of keep connect with him during that really intense time?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  48:04

Well, I'll be honest, there was a lot of TV and there was a lot of times where he would go with my husband. And you know, they'd be in another room plan or somewhere else playing. And I would then be looking after their salary and Felix. So even on the weekend when my husband was off, I didn't feel like I had a lot more hands on help because he was he was the one with mines as well and trying to keep him entertained. But even things like having like Mads would be up on the sofa beside me and was going to be reading the book or he'd have like a couple of toys with him and I try and you know, talk to him about what he's doing or he was still still having his belly cuddles. So if there was space, he would get his arm in and be holding my belly when I was breastfeed them. One of the little ones so. So yeah, we did try tried our best and yeah, it that was something I worried about, like when he gets enough attention. And that's something that people comment on. When we're out in the night sometimes like, oh, this poor boy, you mustn't get any attention. And that is like the worst thing that someone could say to me, because that was my biggest fear when I was pregnant. And to have someone else say it to your face in public. It's like, how could you say that? And so yeah, we just tried to, even if he was watching TV, but he was cuddled in beside me. And we'd be like we're talking about or you'd like talking about what he's watching and he could still have the cuddle and he was so close, but but I wasn't, you know, actively having to play because I had someone attached to my boob.

Emma Pickett  49:44

Yeah, yeah. I do think it's important not to demonise television. We live in a country where there is great telly. I mean, you know, CBeebies is bloody brilliant. I mean, it's not like they're being bombarded by advertising. There's so many creative amazing programmes and you know, great ways To talk to kids about the world and to learn about the world. I don't think anyone should apologise when if they're a mum of triplets for using television with their two year old three year old, so I'm totally on side with that. You mentioned comments that people make in public. And I know that's something that parents are multiples, talk about quite a lot. What are some of the comments that you've had that you've really ripped sort of stuck with you? And you've remembered? 

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  50:24

Definitely the ones about Miles not getting attention. And just things like, I wouldn't want to be you or I wouldn't want to have to do that. Or I can remember I was at a church group once and someone was saying, Oh, well, I she was talking about me, not to me, saying that she'd heard it's easier to have easier to have twins, because yet, yeah, get everything done to like two in one go, basically. So it must be easy with triplets. And I was just so shocked. I didn't say anything. And also she wasn't actually speaking directly to me, but I just heard it. And I was just like, oh my god, like how can how can she say that? Like she has no idea what it says such an easy? So yeah, things like, yeah, just people say and they wouldn't, they wouldn't want it to happen to them, or they wouldn't want it to be them. 

Emma Pickett  51:16

What are you meant to say to that? I mean, what is your is your response? If someone says, oh, I wouldn't want to be you, what do you what do you say?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  51:23

I'm not a very confrontational person. So I usually just kind of laugh and walk on or I think after a while, it got easier to be like, right, well have something to say like, something positive to say about. So the first time that someone had commented on having the four kids and per miles must be neglected. And I was just so gobsmacked that. I couldn't believe she said it. The next time that somebody said it in a in a shop, I was like, well, actually, he gets plenty of attention. Like he's perfectly fine. He's perfectly happy. They're all happy. So it's ready with something more positive to come back. And I guess people just don't think before they speak. Like, I can't imagine that. I would say it myself. But I guess people just don't think. And we just don't understand where you've got your hands full has come from because that's what everybody says. And my husband's like, who started this? Where did this come from? Like, why does everybody say it? So that way you just like Ha ha and walk on?

Emma Pickett  52:25

It is such a pointless thing to say, isn't it? Oh, God.

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  52:28

I remember one time I was in Tesco with the triple buggy on my own. And I had a basket of shopping. And someone said, Oh, you've got your hands full. And I was like, yeah, do you would you like to help? Like, why would you say about what I've tried to push a triple bogey and carry a basket of groceries? Like it was a very rare thing that I would have gone to a supermarket on my own with them. Maybe I would have walked to the local shop, but I could put everything onto the buggy. But this time I was carrying the basket. And I was like, yeah, if you want to help, and obviously they didn't say anything. And they just walked on. But yeah, that was a time where I actually spoke out and said something. But nice. People are generally quite positive. And yesterday we were out. And an Obama person was like, Oh, they look like such happy kids. And I look at my mom's the best thing that anyone could say because you just want your kids to be happy and loved. 

Emma Pickett  53:19

And yeah. Aren't you lucky, isn't it? You know, that's the sort of stuff you want to hear people saying not like, oh my goodness of your hands. Well, wouldn't it be pointless things people to say? I think you're right, people blurt things out. And they they're surprised. It feels unfamiliar. And they just blurt something out. Yeah.

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  53:34

If people were supportive as well, when they're, they're actually like, You're doing such an amazing job. And I think it's helps more when it comes from a stranger because you feel like your family has to tell you that, like my mom and my stepmom and my Auntie's or cousins are very supportive. And like, You did really well, you did a great job, like you're a great mom. If it's a stranger who say you shouldn't like her, in the park, trying to negotiate before kids are getting them around the shop. And all of this the day to day things that you feel like are more of a struggle, because you're trying to manoeuvre all of the kids, when someone comments on that and tells you what a great job you're doing. Feels like, well, they've witnessed us they've seen it in action to think we're doing well. Let's do it.

Emma Pickett  54:14

Yeah, no, that's, that's good, too. I'm glad you've had those experiences as well. So you're still breastfeeding? The three three guys now? They just tend to do they all have a similar relationship to breastfeeding? Or is one of them keener than the others? How, what are their breastfeeding patterns, like at the moment?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  54:30

So now we're down to just one breastfeed a day when we get home from nursery so after pickup? And so that's probably in the last two months, we've dropped down just to one feed, like over Christmas, they were all sick, and they were feeding like 10 times a day each and up all night like newborns and I was like, something has to change. I was felt so grumpy over Christmas as well. And we were staying with family and I feel you know, I also felt guilty that I will Some in a great mood, but I was getting hardly any sleep. And these babies were just so clingy. And yeah, so to go back to like 30 breastfeeds a day, it was just insane and really made me think right, I want to think about weaning back. And then like naturally once they were better, like we managed to cut back on the feeds anyway and think we were down to two. So we did like the morning when they woke up. And then when we got home from nursery and then closer to their birthday, we got like the Moreland feed then. And that was just a matter of getting everybody downstairs and having like food ready in the living room for when we brought them down. So to have like a cup of water and some cereal or toast or something to give them an after. Like after a couple days loose finality. We're pretty easygoing about it. They knew they were getting some of their food. They were fine. Felix probably asked for about three weeks milk milk in the morning. But then, yeah, he adjusted by as well. Then when I picked it up from nursery, they just like, run out to like a tsunami of three babies coming at you. And sometimes they're asking for the milk there then and he's like, No, let's go home. And so you try and wrestle them into the car. And usually, Felix or Louis probably are the ones who want. Who more wants the milk or the cuddles. Elodie? She's quite independent. So yeah, usually we get home them and try and get Felix and Lewis said, normally I like to know I feed them one at a time. And it's just whoever's crying the loudest gets fed first. And we distract the other to them with food or a snack or whatever, while they're waiting. And or sometimes if it's if it's a bit later than normal. Or if it's all kicking off, then I'll turn them feed to them. And then normally lb goes third. But sometimes, depending on how it's going, she might actually go first. But yeah, the law they asked them for milk. And yeah, they just skip with their turn. And yeah, hopefully it's not too nice. 

Emma Pickett  57:04

They must be very good at waiting, you must have little people who've developed a very good sense of empathy and a sense of waiting at an early age. Do you have like magic phrases that you say when when somebody's waiting and they're cross about waiting? Do you have particular language that you use? What is some of your phrases?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  57:21

No, I don't think so. Probably just like you can have milk mixed or you can have milk after Felix or you can have milk after this. Or yeah, no, nothing. Nothing out of the ordinary or Yeah.

Emma Pickett  57:37

You being calm. It's also you're not you sound like you're well. But you're not you're not.

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  57:44

People that work with says I like you seem very calm. And I'm like, really? If you saw me at home, I'm like, Cool.

Emma Pickett  57:49

So did you have to go through any night weaning what was some of the toughest times when you were putting restrictions in place?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  57:56

Yeah, it probably was the the bed like dropping the feed into sleep, and then deciding to cut back on night feed. And I think it actually worked because I was sick, just after the first birthday, and I was quite sick. So I literally just couldn't get up in the night to feed them. And so unfortunately, it wasn't the way I wanted to do. But yeah, they would sort of cry a bit and then went back to sleep. So we managed to cut back some of the night feeds in that way. And then again, similar to miles for the feed in the sleep tram to sort of bring something in between the last breastfeed and bringing them upstairs to the to the cart. Because yeah, and those earlier months, I would probably be like in our bedroom for I can remember like some nights, we would go from the living room at like 9pm. And we might not actually get them settled and US lying down to sleep until one or 2am. And it was just soul destroying to be like we came up here at 9pm. And you just didn't know what where to work at. Like, should we just stay downstairs for longer? Or should we go up earlier and try to get themselves and not that it was just because you would get through one feeding cycle and then they were ready to go again. So we'll have to do another one. So yeah, being able to then switch and, you know, get them go into sleep by themselves. And then sleeping a bit more through the night was definitely a big help. But I would I would maybe like feed downstairs at seven. And then they would have they would wake up at like half 910 So I've got them feed them in the room. And then maybe maker wake up once again and then all my kids. So lucky for us are all early risers, so we're really up at like half, five, six in the morning. But yeah, the night night feeling definitely cut back from like one year but still didn't get much more sleep probably till about 18 months or so and I don't like to talk about getting them are safe fly or that they sleep? Well, because I didn't want to jinx myself. 

Emma Pickett  1:00:03

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Well, you had Christmas where they were unwell. So obviously when they're unwell you go back to having having a tough time of it for sure. Are you working, Tracey? What's your situation with work?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  1:00:15

Yeah, I do work. Yeah. So I work now as well. So and yeah, I find that nobody can believe that I call work my break. But I find a breath. Yeah. Because yeah, that for sure. At home on my own a lot with three little babies was very intense. And yeah, I just enjoy getting items. Reading on the trim and having a hot coffee and talking to adults. It's quite nice. Yeah, I can understand. Sorry. Hi, my good. It's hard to Yeah, like it's hard to juggle and like, I'll be getting up at half five to get ready. And we're out the door at seven so I can get the tree in. And it is a long day. But yeah, it's nice as well to have a part of me back.

Emma Pickett  1:00:58

Yeah, yeah. So Louis, Felix Elodie are still doing that that post nursery feed at the moment? Do you have plans to end that? What's your kind of feeling about how you're going to bring breastfeeding to a close with these guys, you just gonna let them carry on with this one feed? What are you thinking?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  1:01:12

I don't know. Like I come and go, I can never kind of decide what I want to do. And I feel like, because I'm undecided, I don't want to make I don't want to stop now. Because I've kind of been open and I don't I don't want to just stop and KSA regretted them. But there's been plenty of times, you know, when I've asked for advice from the other toiletry flip moms about, you know, when did they start? Or would with this stage be easier if I wasn't breastfeeding? You know, if I was starting solids, and they were spacing out their feeds with bottles, would it be easier to get the solids in, but then you have to clean them sterilise all the bottles and everything? Or when there was a lot of sickness? You know, would it be better alternative? There's lots of goodness in breast milk. But would it be better that they're not all like sharing this, you know, go to the same brass or whatever, and sharing germs that way. But then they're in nursery and they're at home and shared on the same toys and everything. So there's been a lot of times where I've wondered, would things be easier if I wasn't breastfeeding. And I it's been really hard, but really rewarding. And I don't think it would have been easier because, you know, with bottles comes a lot of work as well. And they would have been waiting for milk to be ready from the bottle. So soon I like at the start of the year after Christmas. I was like great, I have to stop and I can't do this anymore. And I thought maybe I'd stop for their birthday. And once we got down to that two feeds and then the one feed normally, I don't like I don't mind the feed I quite enjoy the evening feed depends, depends how noisy it is. And Felix in particular, he's very regularly so he'll be moving around and pulling up my fears and led she'll like pinch my cheeks and stuff. So sometimes it's like a lot of stuff. But no, generally, I don't like it's going quite well. So and this, they still seem to really enjoy it and they want it and it is a comfort for them. And they're reconnecting after a day at nursery. So I like given that to them as well. But then I was talking about the guilt earlier on. So I did wonder I said miles for two years, and I've beaten them for more than two years now. Is he the one at a disadvantage? I was like, why do you why do we think of these things?

Emma Pickett  1:03:27

Yeah, we're not always kind to ourselves. So we I think what you said before about if you're undecided, then you're not ready to make a decision. I think that's a that's a very wise way to look at it. I also like your wisdom just now of you know, if you had bottle fed, would that have been easier? So when you say to someone, oh, I breastfed triplets, and they'll go, Oh my goodness. How did you do that? That's amazing. Especially if you're saying, you know, I wasn't giving formula that oh my goodness, he exclusively breastfeed in triplets. That's incredible. But then actually, it's worth just as you say, just highlighting. Do you honestly think that sterilising that many bottles? Buying that much formula preparing that much formula? Yeah, would have been easy. I mean, all the night feeds with, you know, a six month old set of triplets and all the formula preparation. I mean, the cost of that alone would have been intense, let alone the practicalities of preparing all the bottles. 

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  1:04:16

Yeah, sometimes we talk about the cost of the formula and what we might have saved and but then I also think, obviously, I think we have saved but we've also spent more probably on feeding me especially in the first year when we're feeding a lot. And also, Louis and Felix have CMPA so we have to do everything dairy free for the three of us. So probably the cost of oat milk at all the dairy free alternatives adds up as well. But no, definitely. It's helped cost wise to to not be buying formula too.

Emma Pickett  1:04:47

Gosh, so CMPA on top of all that cow's milk, protein allergy on top of everything so that how was that manifesting itself in those early days? Then when did you realise that was an issue?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  1:04:58

I didn't notice So in the early days, so it was probably a ride that for a month fussy period where it came up maybe as a possibility to look into. And I did have an ibclc visit at the time because they were so fussy and like, did a lot of screaming. And it was just hard to feed them. And so we talked about, could it be an allergy, and they were on reflux medication as well, because they were quite sickly as well, which you know, can be normal. But then we and they would have rashes and stuff, too. So we decided then to try if I cut out dairy to see what happened. And I didn't notice, like a big difference until I introduced area again. And then they were screaming again. And so I stopped. And then maybe like a month later, I tried some more dairy again, and they would every time I would try and reintroduce it to my diet, they would just scream and like get some rashes. And so that's, we just decided them. Okay, like no more dairy, we'll wait. And then they got their referral to the dieticians and we've been seeing them for about a year and a half. Even now, when we do them on do the milk ladder with them, they'll get really unsettled and you know, really bad tummies and, and you just don't want to put them through or you know, sometimes if I've accidentally eaten something, like when they were feeding more often, if I accidentally in something, it would set them off as well. So that did seem quite sensitive in that way. And even though I like now that I'm only feeding them once a day, maybe I try the odd thing to see for myself. Like had a little bit of Easter egg the other day, but then there was a lot of screaming and regulan yesterday, so yeah, I think still bothers them. And yeah, when we do the milk better, we can't progress up the milk ladder. So yeah. Just see how it goes. 

Emma Pickett  1:07:07

Yeah, you had a lot going on in that in that first year, by the sounds of it. When you look back at that first year, is there anything you would have done differently? I mean, I'm guessing it's easy to look back on those very first few days, you know, with different eyes and think, oh, you know, maybe I didn't pick up on the weight loss, etc. And no one should blame me for that. Because you don't know what's happening. And when you're right in the middle of it all. But if you look back on the year as a whole, is there anything that you think you would have done differently? 

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  1:07:31

Probably just tried to be kinder to myself, because I did beat myself up a lot about the like, having to go back on the ward. And, and, you know, basically then anytime they got sick, it was like, sort of not panic, but just like, right, we need to keep on top of it. We need to know how everyone's doing. And like at some points, if they were all sick with bronchitis, for example. Like I was literally put it in a spreadsheet like, okay, who's had what medicine when, and what was everyone's temperatures, because it was hard to keep track of how everyone was doing. So like I did beat myself up a lot and feeling like I was felt like a failure because I couldn't meet the needs of all three babies at one time. And, you know, now I can look back, not all the time, I'll still beat myself up. But now I can look back and and know that it's it's normal. And you know, sometimes I'll see like Catherine talking about the village and you know, people back where I remember way back when I would have had one baby 12 people in the village looking after this one baby and I'm like, oh my goodness, imagine like 36 people. Yeah, that would have been a huge help or even 12 people. So it took a long time to accept that realise that I wasn't a failure. And it was totally normal to feel overwhelmed and overstimulated and accept that I was doing the best that I could. And it wasn't my fault that we'd gone back to hospital. And I think maybe I made decisions that I shouldn't have had the option to make, really. And we should have just, you know, stared or had more support in those early days. So yeah, that took a lot of accepting or adjustment.

Emma Pickett  1:09:24

I mean, talking about feeling overwhelmed and feeling like a failure, or you you're obviously doing peer support work now so you know this, people with one baby feel like they are failing. People who have one baby feel like they cannot meet their baby's needs. And they're not doing everything right and their baby's upset and they can't settle them. It is not possible to meet the needs of one baby all the time, even if you're them absolutely the most amazing, brilliant mum so, so times that by three. There's literally no way you can meet everyone's needs all the time. It's physically not possible and you describe being on your own for a big chunk of that first year. And as you say, that's not what humans are meant to be doing. Humans are not meant to be looking after three babies on their own. You were, you know that you lived in a society where that was the situation. And my God, you did so well, there is nobody in who's listening to this Tracey, who is not thinking, good Lord, this woman is amazing. And, you know, to give yourself a hard time about the times when you could meet everyone's needs. I know that the logic part of your brain knows that that that doesn't make logical sense. It is physically not possible to do. Yeah, unless you're magical. And you can split yourself into three people. It's just literally not possible. But my God, you did so well, you did. So well. And I just the way you talk about kind of trouble troubleshooting. And let's try this didn't work out this way. And, you know, having to start to feed them singly, because they wouldn't want to feed the tandem anymore. I mean, we're, we're, I'm doing that thing at the beginning. I said I wouldn't do. You are amazing. They are amazing. And if the next person who comes up to you go who says, Oh, you got your hands full? I want you to go Emma says, I'm bloody amazing. I probably just messed up the mic levels. Oh, my goodness.

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  1:11:08

No, thank you so much. Yeah,

Emma Pickett  1:11:09

you are you are and to actually get to the point with exclusive breastfeeding, I know, there'll be some mums and mums multiples, listen to this, who that that isn't something they've been able to achieve. So I don't necessarily want to everyone to think that I'm saying that's what multiple parents should do. They should only exclusively breastfeed, but the fact that you did achieve that is amazing, and is testament to how much bloody hard work you must have been putting in with pumping and with organising your milk supply and, and scheduling everything. Just incredible. Just amazing. Tracey, you are amazing.

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  1:11:42

You're making me cry.

Emma Pickett  1:11:46

It's just really also lovely to hear how important the support of your husband was during this process. Because you know, we haven't talked about him a lot. But you know, he was obviously there at night too. And you know, having to work in the day as well. And it sounds like he was really able to support you, which I know is going to be a key part of your story. So if someone's listening to this, they've just found out they're pregnant with triplets, or twins. But let's imagine it's triplets. What messages would you want to give them in sort of final minutes of our chat?

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  1:12:13

I think as I would like to try and be to myself, be kinder to yourself, go easy on yourself, you know, it is it's not normal to have more than one baby. So it's very special, but it's not a normal situation. So try to be kind to yourself and take care of yourself and just take it a feed at a time or an hour at a time. And things should hopefully fall into place. And yeah, ask for help. I was very bad at that. But I did have some help, like a couple of hours coming in and it whatever. So yeah, don't be afraid to ask for help. And hopefully you will get that support. And yeah, and yeah, get on the breastfeeding twins and triplets group as early as you can. And I didn't do that I wish I had I think there's some antenatal workshops as well. So I think that'd be really helpful to know in advance like some of the things that I wasn't aware of. So yeah, do do some learning beforehand, as well if you can. 

Emma Pickett  1:13:15

Yeah, yep, definitely another plug for that group for sure. Thank you so much for your time today. It's so appreciated and and I will tag your Instagram I don't want people to bombard you with questions because you're a busy lady but um if there's any trip triplets specific questions they can they can also find you in the group as well if they want to use that community. That is the village isn't it that breastfeeding twins and triplets group that has become the village breastfeed breastfeeding in the UK? Which Yeah, we're very grateful to Katherine and the administrators for starting. Thank you Tracy. You're an amazing woman and and the guys are very lucky to have you. Miles and Lewis and Felix analysis I can see what a thoughtful reflective loving mum you are, and they're really lucky to have you. And thank you for joining us today.

Tracey Chow-Seegoolam  1:14:02

Oh, thank you so much.

Emma Pickett  1:14:07

Thank you for joining me today. You can find me on Instagram at Emma Pickett IBCLC and on Twitter @MakesMilk. It would be lovely if you subscribed because that helps other people to know I exist. And leaving a review would be great as well. Get in touch if you would like to join me to share your feeding or weaning journey, or if you have any ideas for topics to include in the podcast. This podcast is produced by the lovely Emily Crosby Media.