Grow As We Go
"Grow As We Go" is a sacred storytelling space at the intersection of sexuality, spirituality, and somatic wisdom. Rooted in reverence for the body and a fierce devotion to truth, we explore what it means to come alive in our relationships, our rituals, and our own skin. Through intimate conversations with Houston-based healers and embodied guides, we unravel shame, deconstruct conditioning, and reclaim our sensuality as a spiritual path. This podcast is a lighthouse for the ones who are waking up, craving more, and longing to feel God in their body.
Grow As We Go
046- Conscious Thirst Traps: The Difference Between Empowerment & Objectification Online
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Host Sam and co-host Anthony discuss thirst traps and cheating.
On this episode, examine the ethics of liking hot pictures on Instagram. Inspired by real life conversations, you might wonder why this particular episode is showing up right now. We're curious too! Curious about what cheating means to different people in a relationship. Sometimes it can be as small as looking at someone the "wrong" way all the way to open relationships where multiple partners are the norm. Is there a reason that your man is liking some girls Instagram pictures? Maybe. But the only way you're going to know is by getting into a conversation... and, let's be honest, sometimes you don't want to have that conversation. The discomfort brought up is an incredible way to grow, but it'll push everyone involved. Is everyone ready for that kind of intentional conversation? Find out, and let us know what you think in the reviews of your favorite podcast service!
DIY Yoni Casting Kits are now available! Although they are available at any time, if you order yours by July 1st you'll receive a free virtual guided workshop held on Sunday August 4th at 2pm CST. If you're like "say less Sam, I'm in" click HERE. If you need more information, learn more by clicking HERE or check out episode #27 HERE.
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Bye.
SPEAKER_02:Welcome to the Grow As We Go podcast. I'm Sam, breathwork coach and self-growth junkie. Here we create space for natural, vulnerable, and deeply connected conversations on life as it happens. Wisdom that I've picked up along the way and tools to truly enjoy this beautiful life we've been given. I want to appreciate you for being here, whether this is your first time or you've been here since the beginning. We love feedback here, so leave your thoughts and takeaways from this episode in the review section of this podcast this also helps the podcast become a bit more relevant in search reviews another way you can support this podcast is by following me on instagram at samantha underscore underscore charles and take a screenshot of this episode to share it on your social media and share your takeaways so that your junkie friends can come and get their fix too Hello, beautiful souls, and welcome to another episode of Grow As We Go, where we provide a playful perspective on growth and self-development. I'm Sam.
SPEAKER_01:And I am Anthony.
SPEAKER_02:And today, we're going to be talking about social
SPEAKER_01:media, cheating, and liking big booty Instagram girls.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my gosh. That just reminds me. Girl, you make them rockin' boots go round.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. Fat bottom girls. Fat bottom girls. You make the rockin' world go round. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That was funny. It went through my head. Yeah. What do you call this episode? Thirst Trap?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. The Ethics of Thirst Trap.
SPEAKER_02:The Ethics of Thirst Trap. Okay. So, we're having a conversation about, like, what is cheating? And social media... And, you know, different things that can arise in relationships when it comes because you can like, we're talking about like Instagram, and so you can see what people are liking, and you can see who people follow. And so if you're like starting out a relationship, or you find like your partners liking things that are kind of like, Why are you liking that?
SPEAKER_01:They're thirst trappy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they're thirst trappy.
SPEAKER_01:Which for those, the uninitiated, I think you know what a thirst trap is, but it's like an intentional video to make someone be like, that person makes me feel things in the downstairs parts. We really are playful, aren't
SPEAKER_02:we?
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But so it was it's kind of we're going to talk about that a little bit deeper. But then also, you know, social media and intention, because it's funny to talk about this as being myself. And like I also post nude pictures on the Internet. And it's like the intention and the results of that. my postings and my sharings are totally different than maybe somebody else who has a different intention.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and yeah, just kind of talking about that a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So it'll be a fun conversation because I think this is really relevant in, in today's world because it's so easy for men to get caught up in that. Yeah. Like that world of like, Oh, it's just one girl's picture. Like I can like it. Or it's just unconscious at this point, which is what I hear a lot from... I used to be a high school teacher. I hear this a lot in the thing. It's like, he liked this girl's picture. And it's like, well, okay. Tapping your thumb twice on a picture.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's really easy to just throw out likes. You know, I think, I mean, I can even say that that's been a thing that I've not been super always conscious about, but I think that I've, like, kind of been more, like, stingy with my likes, I guess, you know, if you could say. Like, intentional, you know, probably not stingy, but... It's stingy compared to what it was, I guess. But it's more intentional and like, oh yeah, I do really like that message or whatever it is.
SPEAKER_01:So let's talk at first, what brought up this whole conversation anyway? Because I know that you have had conversations with lots and lots of people online. And so there's a conversation that you and I had. You were like, hey. And you asked me a question. Do you remember?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, I was having a conversation... with somebody. And I remember thinking like, Oh, that wouldn't really bother me. Right. You know? And the, like, I guess the context of it was like somebody was concerned or asking my opinion about, um, what I thought about their partner liking like different, um, Different women's profiles and like following them and liking, you know, pictures of like excessive cleavage or like girls on boats and bikinis and like different kind of. um, photos like that. And I was like, that would not bother me at all. And I think too, like part of the conversation that you and me, cause I was curious about you. Like I just, I like talking to you about things of course. Oh, you do? Yeah. But it's like, you know, cause we have, I like our, our conversations. I feel like they're, um, enlightening, uh, for me. And that's kind of, I mean, that's why we're on this podcast because like, you
SPEAKER_01:know, I like to pass it along.
SPEAKER_02:It's helpful. And so what?
SPEAKER_01:So you were talking about those pictures and you asked me that question. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. What I was going to say too about that is like, I think also my history of like, um, being an open relationship and all of that plays into my like general lack of caring about that sort of stuff. And like jealousy is not an emotion that, experience very often if at all
SPEAKER_01:golly what's that like
SPEAKER_02:um but yeah so
SPEAKER_01:so you had asked me you were like i think you asked me straight up you're like is this weird is it weird for guys to like like other girls yeah i
SPEAKER_02:think i wanted to get your opinion because i had like a you know i have my own lens of experience right sure and like i'm like is that weird because i don't
SPEAKER_01:I don't know. I think you told me specifically, like, you wouldn't care. Yeah. And basically, this is so funny, because I was like, yeah, you should care. It's like, why wouldn't you care? Yeah. Because you asked the question.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think it's, like, surface level, I wouldn't care. But then I was thinking about it and talking with you more. Like, I don't know that I would be in a relationship with somebody that was doing that, because there is a certain level of, like, it's just... This is just my... my uh opinion okay guys there is a certain level of like unconsciousness there and like a lack of consideration about the partnership that you're in and like what is your intention in liking these photos
SPEAKER_01:yeah that's so and we can do real life examples here so i have i've been on tiktok for years since like 2020 um which is weird to think that I've been on there for four years. And for a certain amount of time, I amassed a fair amount of followers, like about as many as you have on Instagram, maybe a few more. But in that process, there were women who, I liked their stuff, they liked my stuff, and we became mutuals, and we had some minor conversations. Now, some of these women were in this category, where like, It could be seen as... Categories
SPEAKER_02:like thirst traps and they probably have OnlyFans.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, definitely. And people that I have talked to in that time and then still have had occasional conversations with because I've actually gotten to sort of know them as a person.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But I will also say that... if I come across those people's pages that I don't just like them automatically because they're a person that I follow and have had a conversation with. Like, so for example, so
SPEAKER_02:you're also stingy with your likes.
SPEAKER_01:I am probably, I probably just don't care as much. Right. Like I'm just like, I don't, I'll like stuff. The reason that I like stuff is to keep it on my algorithm. Right. So if something comes across my page and I'm like, you know, like I could want to see more of this, then I'll double tap it. Or if it makes me laugh. And so I'll use a specific life example. So there's a gal that I follow who is not shy about sharing just how large she has going on in her chest region. Right?
SPEAKER_02:Why do you say it like
SPEAKER_01:that? There's a girl with big tits. Oh my god. Which is probably not helpful. Those are like way too extreme right there. So there's a girl with a lot of cleavage. And so... but she posted something that was about her, about ovulating. And so I, and I love talking about the cycle because we've talked about it for a really long time. So she said something about ovulation week. And then I, and then I liked it because I said like, and then it's literally a week and I get to think about every single mistake I've ever made, which was funny to me. And so that comment has gotten a lot of likes. And so it keeps bringing me back to that. And so I'm like, okay, This is one of those things where it's like, I could see if somebody just saw that one particular interaction, that'd be like, oh my gosh, he's liking all these girls' Instagram posts. And there's like a generalization that could happen there. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02:As
SPEAKER_01:opposed to the opposite side, not saying the opposite necessarily, but another side of that, where it's like, there isn't even any content. It's just a girl saying, posing sultrally in very little amounts of clothing. With
SPEAKER_02:like emojis as the caption.
SPEAKER_01:Sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And I also want to, want to speak to like, you know, we're talking about like thirst trap and like only fans girls. And like, there's, there's a lot of, there's a couple, like I can think of a hand, a lot of a couple. Okay. I can think of a handful of women that I know personally that have only fans. And, um, the content that they shared to me feels very like conscious and, um, about growth. And it's like, there's more, I don't know about more, but there seems to be an intention about like liberation.
SPEAKER_01:Sure. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Which is kind of what I was sharing a little bit about like the stuff that I share, you know, on, on my social media is like, yeah, I'm, naked or i'm in lingerie or like you know i mean you can only post certain things of course but and also like i do yoni castings and i share like yeah sculptures of pussies but um you know it's all with the intention of like liberation and um like making things that are natural not so taboo right and to like desexualize the human body um yeah. So I think that there are, of course, a variety of types of people on the internet, on Instagram, including only fans and like not to generalize. So
SPEAKER_01:I just wanted to say that. Yes. Every, every quote unquote, only fans girl, isn't somebody who is, yeah, there's no generalization that can be made. You get to, you get to live into the nuance of that. Um, and yeah, I know he's talked about this a little bit, but the way that OnlyFans girls have had an impact on men's mental health has been really interesting to me because it's created this space where a man has this purpose and provision, which is a very masculine trait to have. And so he's doing something that lets him live into his masculinity, which keeps him feeling more alive and more purposeful, even if it's something that a lot of people are like, oh, this is really bad. You shouldn't be doing that. It doesn't. Doesn't matter because it keeps them going on. Anyway. Do you
SPEAKER_02:want them like subscribing and like supporting?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, supporting financially, right? Right. And like, you know, basically they give money in exchange for favors, whatever that looks like. Sure. And so it's this sense of like, it's really interesting.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that is interesting
SPEAKER_01:to think about. Anyway, I digress. The point of that is there are the idea that we began to talk about is that like there are men and boys and all people in relationships who will aggressively like other women's posts especially if this is i ran across this in in a high school class a freshman high school class i like walked by and looked over someone's shoulder at their phone and it was literally just like a literal big booty instagram girl and i was like what are you doing and he said mr ella i'm looking at pictures of gyats and i was like you can't do that in class yet is the kid term right now or the the hip term to say as somebody who has a big butt because he would say god damn like that you know so anyway it's rampant right like it's it's everywhere it's not like this is something that doesn't exist and as a man on instagram Even when I go to look for memes, like after we do an episode, we go and look for memes,
SPEAKER_00:right?
SPEAKER_01:I will click on the explore button and at least one of them in the very beginning is some... scantily dressed woman.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Well, for a while, I remember you showing me like, you know, your explore page and it's like all a bunch of women. And I'm like, I
SPEAKER_01:know it's weird. Cause I'm like, okay, well, Mr. Over here wants to have an algorithm of like healing and, you know, intention and all that stuff like that. And it's like, This is where it comes down to this. Instagram's
SPEAKER_02:like, girl, you make them rockin'. Yeah, fat bottom. Fat bottom.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and it's like, but the algorithm only shows you what you pay attention to, and they do eye tracking and all that stuff like that. So that's the interesting part, is it's like, clearly it's either getting my attention, and I'm not as conscious as I'd like to be, or it's just, hey, you're a man. who is 30 some years old. So this is the content that resonates with you according to our algorithm. So this is where we're going to put on there. And so it's a really interesting space to exist in. And what makes it so interesting about it is that you had at a certain point said, you wouldn't really care. And I've even showed you my Explorer page like you just said, right? So the question that I get to ask is, why at least at first would that not bother you considering most of the women i know if their guys were liking that it would bother them significantly
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SPEAKER_01:I mean, I heard you say something about jealousy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But... I
SPEAKER_02:think, you know, aside from my first high school relationship, I have been in pretty solid relationships that I've never felt, like, super threatened or, like, concerned about, like, cheating or, yeah, any sort of thing like that. And so I think that that stability has given me that, I guess, privilege of not really having that jealous emotions as my first response. And sure i think that like if it became an issue and like i saw it a lot and like there were you know instead of you spending time with me you're like liking girls on instagram and i'm sitting right here like of course that would be an issue you know
SPEAKER_01:really weird
SPEAKER_02:um but not but i think too because i i don't know you know and i think it would be if it did bother me and that was the conversation i ended up having you know i've had this conversation with several several people actually yes Um, and it's like, I think if it did bother me, it would just be a conversation, you know, like what's the intention with this. Right. And I think that's, you know, kind of what you and me were talking about a lot. It's like, what's the intention and, and is there an awareness of what you're doing even?
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and like bringing also awareness to like the thoughtfulness of other people and like, you know, so you're in a relationship and like, you know, I don't know. It's like, I've always, there's like this, I think it's some sex in the city or something where it's like, you can look, but you can't touch, you know? And like, um, you know, I think that it is really interesting to think about being in relationship and it's there, there's a way to, that there's like in our culture, a lack of freedom around, um, once you're in a relationship you can't even look at another female you can't even look you can't even like
SPEAKER_01:talk to her
SPEAKER_02:consider have have any sort of thought you don't talk to her you don't think about her you don't look and it's like okay we're all still human and you know it's like what I don't see the harm in like, oh, that's an attractive person.
SPEAKER_01:Right, and I think that's what's interesting is that I know that you don't see the harm in that because the way that you even observe or engage with attractive people is also wildly different from the way that people will blindly like things on Instagram or unconsciously like things on Instagram because when you find someone attractive, it's not like you need to immediately sexualize that person. Right?
SPEAKER_02:I don't know. All
SPEAKER_01:right, great. Good for you. Super fun.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, this is the thing, right? Okay, so this is... we were going to talk about existential kink, but I didn't want to do that yet because I want to have like an outline because I could talk about it for literally hours. So existential kink is a book that I'm currently reading. And if you follow me on Instagram, you know that I'm like obsessed. Um, I even created like a breathwork session that we just did.
SPEAKER_01:It was amazing. Good. Um, I wish I have it recorded, but dang it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So, um, Um, the thing about, I mean, I'll just very briefly existential kink is this idea that, um, okay. You think about kink and then the bedroom is typically where my mind goes when I hear the word kink. So in the bedroom, let's just say at any point in my life, no, I don't like being spanked and degraded and like taken against my will. Even maybe potentially, I don't know. It depends on how kinky we're getting. Um, But in the bedroom, sometimes I enjoy being taken advantage of and degraded and maybe even like, I don't know, hit, spanked. We'll see. I
SPEAKER_01:guess we'll find out. I guess
SPEAKER_02:we'll find out. You know, there's all kinds of kinks, right? And are tied up, you know? I don't want to be tied up and like against my will.
SPEAKER_01:Right, in real life.
SPEAKER_02:Trying to get out of it or something or, you know, not enjoying that. But like... the bedroom and these certain scenes and I've consented and all these different things then like yeah that's kind of kinky and I could you know I could enjoy that and so her the author Carolyn Elliott is talking about like what if we what if that concept applies to every area of your life and So you have these areas of your life or particularly patterned situations that you, quote, don't like. Just like I don't like being tied up. I don't like being spanked on a regular basis. But there's some part of me...
SPEAKER_01:That really does. That
SPEAKER_02:really does and gets turned on by that. And so when you think about patterned situations in your life of maybe working really hard and not making very much money for it or only making a certain amount and being in this pattern and this cycle of scarcity and poverty or falling in love with somebody who ultimately ends up abusing you or cheating on you or... reminds you of your abusive parents or whatever the case. And so you think about people that are inconsistently in patterns and in relationships like that. It's like maybe there's a part of you that really likes that. And it's like an unconscious part. And the unconscious and subconscious is what's really good at manifesting and creating things in your life. That's why people like to focus so much on you know, reprogramming your subconscious mind with like positive affirmations so that you can shift the narrative that's going on in your subconscious mind to create more positive results in your outer world. Okay. So, and then her thing is like, well, what if we just looked at the tobacco, what the fuck? The taboo. There
SPEAKER_01:you
SPEAKER_02:go. And that kink and that like, you know, maybe a part of you does really like that abusive relationship because of the emotional cocktail that it creates within you. And like, you like feeling like that. Just like somebody might like being spanked in the bedroom.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Even though, even though it's not like a, yes, I want this to continue happening to me. Clearly there's some part of you that feels safe. in that experience or like feels like ooh this is something that i shouldn't be doing one or the other or even both
SPEAKER_02:yeah it can be really um in depth and that's why i want to do a whole episode on it
SPEAKER_01:but you brought that up
SPEAKER_02:i brought that up for a reason
SPEAKER_01:because we were talking about social media and like we were talking about
SPEAKER_02:oh
SPEAKER_01:okay patterns right
SPEAKER_02:right well no so we were talking about um finding other people attractive
SPEAKER_01:oh gotcha right
SPEAKER_02:and like that being taboo, essentially. Sure. Right? Like, finding somebody attractive, especially when you're in partnership, it's like you're not allowed to do that. You have to turn off that part of your wholeness. You know? Which, like, when you're single... You can do that. And so it exists within you.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:But when you're in a partnership, you can't
SPEAKER_01:let it exist anymore.
SPEAKER_02:So it's the idea of like this whole taboo kinky thing, right? Like you're pushing it down into your subconscious, you're suppressing it. And like in a lot of cases, like what you resist persists. Things that you push down ultimately start bubbling up, bubbling over and like come out fucking sideways.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:And so that can look like cheating, you know, like really to the extreme, right? It's like putting
SPEAKER_01:this... When you say cheating, you mean like having sex with someone else who's not your partner. Sure. Like in a non-consensual, understood way. You just like...
SPEAKER_02:What do you mean non-consensual? Oh, like not in an open relationship.
SPEAKER_01:Right, yeah. You're not talking about like... You're just like... Yeah. Yeah. No, no, not that way. Sorry. No, not that. Although that definitely walk away from that, but... Anyway, not what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_02:Right. So... Yeah, and it can come out sideways in a lot of different ways, right? It can come off as flirting with the secretary or being a little inappropriate. It's a slippery slope. And so it comes out sideways when you're so constricted.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:The same thing goes for repressed emotions or repressing your desires instead of just allowing them to exist within you. not always act just because you allow them to exist and like accept them doesn't mean that you need to act on them
SPEAKER_01:that is a really good way to say it so like for example you and i had a conversation about this recently there was a girl that i was like that i met on instagram because they're in the healing space and um but there's there's been a lot of this kind of stuff where i've been like damn that person's actually really attractive and I told you. I was like, hey, this girl's really attractive to me. I'm just letting you know. I'm not going to do anything about that. But then a wonderful friend of ours, Marnie, had this really good quote about being like, are you attracted to that person for real? Or is that creative possibility with that person? And I was like, oh, that was so good. But anyway, no matter the thing, it's like... There's this idea of when you're in a relationship, the level at which you can interact with another person of the opposite gender or, you know, whatever, someone that you're attracted to, you can't interact with that person then at all. Because like, oh, there's this risk of suddenly your relationship is going to become something more. And so when it comes to this conversation, it's like, it may start off simply as like, oh, I like this girl's Instagram photos, or I like girls like this Instagram photos. Okay, if that were to happen, where I would consume that kind of media, and be like, that girl's really attractive, I'm going to press this little heart button that says, I find this girl attractive. The fact that that happens either unconsciously or even with a little bit of consciousness in it, is an interesting start to something. And the question is, what is it going to be a start to?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, I think another thing that was coming up when you were talking is just the prevalent access to things on the internet. Oh my gosh. You know, it's like pornography and... I mean, that's kind of the end there.
SPEAKER_01:Well, but it's like, you know, for like significant relationship building opportunity too. Right. Like it's not just, it's not just porn. It's also the fact that you can find a person who will treat you like a boyfriend and
SPEAKER_02:And
SPEAKER_01:you pay them a certain amount of money and that happens, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, there's a lot of variety online as far as all that stuff goes and where it could go. But what I was thinking about is how prevalent access to sexual experiences from all the way from images to... There's this huge scale of spectrum of things where it's like girls in bikinis and then and thongs and then oh there are whole butts there oh there's some side boob you know it's just like it just continues to escalate and then it's like oh there's a video it's a little short clip oh maybe it's like a gif and it's a short clip and then it's a you know nudity and videos and then then there's pornography and it's like there's just like this huge spectrum and there's really easy access to all of that sort of thing and you know there's there's a way that all of that stuff it we're kind of getting into like porn addiction and stuff you know and like sex addiction and different things like that where there's there It can be a problem if it's unconscious and if you're using it to mask other feelings within yourself and then you become dependent on it and it becomes an addiction. And just like with any sort of addiction, it can be hard to break because you're dependent on it and it's hard for you... Because you've been numbing yourself, you don't want to feel those feelings anymore. And so anytime those feelings come up, getting the correct tools to... support you in that is helpful but you know addiction is really uh
SPEAKER_01:really something yeah that's wow
SPEAKER_02:i've had a lot of experience with that in my own family right you know and so it's like i'm i'm well versed in witnessing that
SPEAKER_01:and in that same vein like you can you can be addicted to liking those posts because maybe they like something back And so you get that dopamine hit or that dopamine rush. It can be so easy as like, maybe you are addicted to like, finding other people attractive because you get that rush of like, Oh, I'm not going to tell my partner that I find this guy really hot because like, I just get to think about that and maybe even fantasize about him later or like, Oh, or maybe like,
SPEAKER_02:or like they would, they would not like it. And you know, then they would, would want more access to my like private, you know, it's like, what's privacy anymore. Um,
SPEAKER_01:and, and so when we're having this conversation, really what it all comes down to is, is do you even have the, do you have the space to be able to have that conversation in a way that would lead to both people being understanding and, and committing to understanding each other? So for, let's say, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:Sorry. Well, I guess I would say, so part of the conversations that I've had in the past with, with people about this is, um, you know, there's like a hesitancy to bring it up, right? Because you don't want them to get defensive or like,
SPEAKER_01:right.
SPEAKER_02:feel insulted or think like there's all these different stories and it's my response to stuff like that is always well you're not going to know unless you do it you know you're just making up stories
SPEAKER_01:right now and there are ways in which you can communicate in a way that is not it is more helpful
SPEAKER_02:right healthy communication is so important and like hey when i saw this i'm feeling this and like you like having curiosity you know what's
SPEAKER_01:going on there about that yeah
SPEAKER_02:yeah can you tell me about it what's your intention and i don't know that word it's funny because what what's your intention to me is like totally triggering in a lot of ways. So that's something that like I get to look at, you know, cause it's like, you know, intention is important. It's really important. Um, but, but then also, you know, it's, and it's almost like even, even de-armoring the whole situation where with saying like, Hey, I have something I want to bring up and I'm concerned that like, you're going to get really upset about it. And, you know, I just want to have a conversation about it. And I'm curious. Yeah. instead of going in like accusatory and it turning into a totally nonproductive like conversation slash argument. And yeah, I think just being open and curious and I just really think it's important to have a partner that's like open to having those sorts of conversations because if they're not, especially if it's somebody who just started dating and
SPEAKER_01:That's just an indicator.
SPEAKER_02:It's like, to me, you know, it's like, I don't like to be one of those red flag people, but it's like, you know... That's a pretty big indicator. It feels big if you're not willing to have conversations about something like that. Like, what else is going to be challenging to have a conversation about down the road? That might be more... intense or more um more serious of a of a problem
SPEAKER_01:yeah and then the the deep dark deep dark truth is if you are with someone and you want to be able to have those kinds of conversations with them and you cannot do it in the beginning then just don't try to fix that it's it's not going to be possible and i think that's what's really difficult too about this is there's there's a level of attachment that comes along with this where this is our partner. This is someone that maybe, and in some cases, we've been with for a really long time. And it's seemingly all of a sudden, there's this huge shift where they're not paying attention to you as much and they're using social media for purposes that is really confusing. And so it's like, okay, well, we built this life together. What do I do here? Because I don't want to destroy the life that we had. And I think that's what's really difficult about this conversation, is that you might have to recognize where you were unconscious in that relationship, because usually stuff like that doesn't just pop up out of nowhere. Like, I am not the kind of person who is going to sit here and like half-naked girls' Instagram pictures. like I just unless they're mine unless they're yours I love yours yours are great yeah I like the hell out of those because damn but but and we talked about this a little bit but there's a difference yeah there's a difference between the way that you do it so like there are a few people that you follow who are very sensually embodied and I do like their stuff because of the message that goes along with it so for me when I see a thing on my explore page that's like Wow. This is aimed at inviting men in to objectify them. So to look at their chest or to think about them in a sexual way.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That is objectifying. And it's fine. You can do that. But... when i like something like you or some of the other sensual embodiment people that you follow it's like yeah they may not have a lot of clothes on sometimes they have none but the invitation is not to objectify them but to i'll say this for at least my experience the experience for me is to revere yeah is to almost like um you know venus de milo that picture The picture of Venus is not there so that guys can be like, damn, that girl coming out of that clamshell is so... I want her for myself and I want to touch myself because of it. It's like, no, look at the power of the goddess here. And sure, you can interpret it however you want and all that stuff like that. But I think the question that I really want to ask... that goes down to the core of it is this is when you post your booty which is phenomenal on instagram right does your intention change the outcome of the responses that you get
SPEAKER_02:yeah i think so you know i think a majority of my instagram like comments or um you know dms and stuff like that are women and um you know in in support of and i've got i've had a few things like go viral and any of the men that are ever commenting on it are always like haters you know they're not like oh you're so hot and It's like, what the fuck are y'all doing? Yeah, exactly. This is dumb or, you know, Arby's or whatever the fuck. Oh my God, that's terrible. So it's just, it's really interesting, you know, and there's men and women doing all that stuff on my thing. But like, that's what like the Yoni Cassie in particular is like, there's a lot of haters on that. But like, you know, whenever I've done like somatic movement and different things like that, it's pretty much all women. sometimes every now and then there's you know a guy that's like oh you're hot and I'm like thanks and then I don't say you know then we don't have any further conversation you know I mean and that's the thing too is like one of the things I think it was in Pussy the book Pussy a Reclamation by Regina Thomas Shore aka Mama Gina is where she talks about like like what if we didn't take it so seriously when we got quote unwanted attention from men? It's like, thanks, you know, like, you know, what if it added to your vibrancy? And so I've kind of shifted, attempted, I'm attempting to shift my perspective around that. Cause I think that like, you know, there's a, I've talked about this before with like the, the damages that I think that the feminist movement has done to women. And, um, I think that you know you can be on whatever side you want to around that but I'm gonna choose to instead of being a victim to it and like get frustrated and angry to like oh I can turn it around and like I am beautiful and like thanks for noticing you know and like be playful right but it's like you know the idea of like flirting and stuff like that too but like there is an energy of creepiness right and so it's like you can feel that if you're in tune with that and And, um, so just like, yeah, thanks.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Skip away. Yeah. Um, it's so funny. I would love to, that visual of you being like, thanks. And then just skipping away. Cause I, cause I, this is what comes to mind for me is thinking about how, you know, when you have a picture that someone will say like, Oh, you're so hot. It's usually not around, um, your embodiment practices it's usually not around your like you know conscious thought stuff right like um what i find fascinating is this so guys who are liking instagram photos In addition to your intention, one, your intention is, yes, I'm empowering women. But also, if we really want to dive down into it, and this is really tough, is it's like, if your man is liking Sam's stuff, because she's empowering women, that's very different. Because he is excited about the opportunity for women. women, including you, to be more empowered, to be able to step into their... Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I was just going to say that I think that's probably why a lot of men don't comment on my stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Because there is a fear of that or an unconscious fear of that that comes out like... Oh,
SPEAKER_01:I don't want to be perceived a certain way.
SPEAKER_02:Well, like... No, no, no. I mean, an unconscious fear of women rising... of women's empowerment in a very conscious way. That's like, you know, sacred sexuality. There's a lot of power there. And I think that people know that, but like don't want to admit it or like are so unconscious about it. Um, but I think there's an inner knowing in that, in the collective, if you believe in that sort of stuff, which I do. Um, but I think that that's why a lot, there's maybe not so many, so much men, you know, because it's like, that is, um, What's that word?
SPEAKER_01:Can I jump in? Mm-hmm. I think it's because men do not get turned on by women being empowered. They do get turned on by women being objectified.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and that's a generalization.
SPEAKER_01:I know. Yes. But yeah. Generally. Right. This is the... When we're talking social media, this is the general term of it, is that most likely... If there's a man in your life who is liking half-naked women on Instagram, it doesn't mean that the half-naked women on Instagram are bad or doing anything wrong. All of this, everything that we're talking about, just is. But all of it's also indicators.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it's just interesting to be curious about.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. And sure, be curious about it. You need to be. But... The generalization, most likely, the men who are liking this are not men who are sitting there thinking, how can I treat my woman like a goddess? How can I make sure that she's an empowered person?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, because I think, too, it's like... that sort of conversation feels exhausting to a lot of men for a lot of different reasons and it's like oh it's just easier to sexualize and also because it feels good in your body
SPEAKER_01:there it is so yeah so when it comes down to it is it cheating to like a girl's instagram post that is Poorly dressed. Not poorly dressed, but barely dressed. That was not the right word. Poorly dressed. I
SPEAKER_02:think that it's an interesting question, right? There's so many different relationships. Right. And people get to decide what is cheating to them. But, you know, it's so curious to me, the idea of like, what is cheating?
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Like there's a lot of gray area there and there's a lot of things. And depending on who you're in a relationship with and what they're comfortable with and what the, I don't know. I just, I just feel like open communication and being honest and open is like you get the most freedom with
SPEAKER_01:that. And that's the best, right? You open yourself to a curious experience saying, this is what I'm seeing and experiencing. Can you tell me more about that? But if that person isn't willing to have the conversation, then that is a great sign to say, I probably need to reevaluate what's going on here. Because the number one reason for relationships splitting up, the number one reason for marriages splitting up is growing apart.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:And typically, we've talked about before, it is the woman who is growing, or the feminine who is growing, and the masculine who is staying stagnant. And... He will only change enough to keep the woman off his case, the feminine off his case. So, all that being said, a very simplified way of saying this is basically, would you break up with a guy who is liking girls' Instagram posts? Well, he better have a good reason. Oh my gosh. And by that I mean, it's important to get curious about And then for him to say, there's an intention behind this. Not a
SPEAKER_02:reason, an intention.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, thank you. That's a better word for it. Yeah, so anyway, just a thought process behind all that. And if you disagree, great, let us know.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I'd just be curious, too, to hear, like, what do you think is cheating? Ooh, yeah. Did you... What do you think is cheating? And... Is there anything in this episode that you feel like has given you something to consider or shift your perspective or be more open to something if there's more conversation? Or is it just like, no, don't look at them, you know?
SPEAKER_01:Right. Don't even look. It's funny because like you remember when you asked me, you were going to Scotland and you asked me about like... What if I meet a Scottish guy with a hot accent? What can I do? What am I allowed to do? Yeah, I remember that conversation. It was funny. Do you remember what you landed on?
SPEAKER_02:What?
SPEAKER_01:Like, what was quote-unquote, like, okay with us? Oh, that I could kiss him. Yeah. Did you get to kiss any Scottish men? No, I didn't. I didn't skid
SPEAKER_02:any Scottish men. What the heck? Skid any Scottish men. Are you alright? Kiss any Scottish men.
SPEAKER_00:It's getting late. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:If you found parts of this podcast interesting, useful, or at the very least entertaining, I hope that you'll share your takeaways and tag me on social media or leave a review and or leave a review. And we appreciate you and we'll see you next time.