From Darkness to Purpose: A Man's Journey Through Addiction and Awakening

As I sat across from Blue Andrews, his story of transformation gripped me—a tale that not only speaks to the heart of every man fighting silent battles but also echoes the triumph of the human spirit. Blue shares an intimate account of his journey, from the clutches of alcoholism and the shadows of depression to the heights of wellness and self-awareness. It's a deep dive into the layers of modern masculinity, the silent struggles with loneliness, unworthiness, and the beauty of vulnerability. His story is a beacon, guiding us through the dark and into a life brimming with purpose and meaning.

In the tapestry of today's fast-paced world, it's easy to overlook the simpler things in life. Yet, as Blue and I explore the emotional landscape of men's lives, we uncover the profound growth that can occur when one learns to cherish the present moment. We talk about the fine line between learning from past mistakes and being consumed by them, and I open up about the heartfelt stories shared in my book "Choosing Life." Through candid conversations and the establishment of safe spaces, we illuminate the concept that sharing our own vulnerabilities not only fosters personal healing but can also fortify the bonds between men.

As we wrap up, we delve into the strength that our beliefs and values provide, especially during life's upheavals. The episode touches on the painful yet rewarding battle against addictions, the significance of possessing a resolute "why" in our life's narrative, and the anchoring power of personal creeds. We traverse from self-discovery to the sharing of vulnerabilities and ultimately, the journey towards self-discovery and wellness. This episode stands as an impassioned plea for men to lead by example, to celebrate life in all its facets, and to nurture a positive outlook, regardless of the trials faced in the past.

Key moments in this episode:
12:11 Men's Emotional Growth Journey
17:56 Overcoming Male Communication Barriers
21:36 The Power of Personal Beliefs
31:33 Journey to Self-Discovery and Wellness
41:50 Journey Through Depression and Recovery

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

know what is your definition of courage?

Speaker 1: 0:02

Someone would say it's doing the things we're afraid to do, and while I agree with that definition, to me courage is so much more.

Speaker 1: 0:09

Courage is also having the ability to listen to life, to listen to what others have to say and, maybe even more importantly, listening to what our inner voice has to say. Well, today, my guest shares his courageous journey from alcoholism and depression to wellness and self-discovery, and I think you're going to really get a lot of this out of this discussion. And before we get into a lot, I just want you to know that being a man today has never been more challenging, and so the pain for many of us is real, and it's a pain and a loneliness and unworthiness, and it's masked by our anger and our resentment, and it's all because we were uncertain and are afraid to take that next step. So if you're tired and fed up with where your life is at, then I'm going to encourage you to start your hero's quest, where you can become more, more accomplished more and live more than ever before. Go to memberstheawakenmannet and start your quest today. With that, let's get on with today's episode.

Speaker 2: 1:08

The average man today is sleepwalking through life, many never reaching their true potential, let alone ever crossing the finish line to living a purposeful life. Yet the hunger still exists, albeit buried amidst his cluttered mind, misguided beliefs and no longer serve him. It's time to align yourself for greatness. It's time to become a revolutionary man. Stay strong, my brother.

Speaker 1: 1:36

Welcome everyone to the revolutionary man podcast and the founder of the Awaken man movement and your host, alan DeMonceau. When was the last time you called upon courage to get you through a challenging time in life? In which voice was the courage battling with? Was it yours? Was it yours or was it with others around you? No, there's never been a more poignant time in life where men are constantly faced with the challenge of determining who we are and what we stand for, and so it takes courage to go out on our hero's journey, pulling ourselves through the dark night of the soul, living with passion, purpose and power. Well, today, my guest is the epitome of just that. Allow me to introduce him.

Speaker 1: 2:15

Blue Andrews is a stay at home dad living across the lake from Seattle. This is a beautiful wife and four incredible children. Andrews career first was in sales and he spent over 15 years in the technology industry, working for startups some successful and some not and a mid-sized companies, and then, ultimately, with IBM. He has a BA in economics and from the University of Washington and certificates from Bellevue College in both software development, database management, and these days you can find his he finds his favorite things to do are spending time with his family, exercising, listening to music live music, that is and going on road trips. Welcome to the show blue. How are things today? My friend Howdy?

Speaker 3: 2:56

Thank you so much for having me. Things are good. Things are good. Appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 3:00

Yeah, right on. It was really excited when I, when we started to collaborate on getting you having a guest on the show and you have such an incredible story and so, as you know, if you're familiar with listening to this show, the first question I ask all my guests is really talk about a bit, a part of your hero's quest, and so tell us about that time in your life when you knew things had to change. What did you do about that and how did that experience shape you into the man you are today? Thank you, that's that's a big, big question.

Speaker 3: 3:25

I did. There's a there's a point. There was a day, there was a moment that in August of 2010,. That was the the point, you know the point in my life when I knew that I needed to make a change. I I had I spent many you know my teens and Into my twenties suffering through some traumas. I had a father that took off on us quite a bit and then finally left for good in the middle of the night, came back but then was never really there, and so my mom raised, was raising my brother and me, and then, when I was 17, she died suddenly of breast cancer and that was. That was two months following one of my close, close friends who I who I idolized had died in a freak accident. A few years later, I had another friend pass away at the age of 24, quickly from cancer, and then another woman who had become sort of a second mom to me. She passed away very quickly from cancer and some complications from that All. During that time I was sort of estranged with my father and so I had that trauma going on During that entire period when, when those things were happening, I also I also learned that I was a pretty good drinker, I was a pretty good partier, and in my twenties that was fun.

Speaker 3: 4:53

But as I hit my thirties and and grieving continued from those losses that took place in my twenties, and then the level of alcohol that I was drinking grew and grew and became more and more part of my life. By the time I was in my mid thirties, I had really started to feel depression, sadness, anger, regret, so many negative factors, and it really, and it really took hold by my late thirties, when the depression had manifested itself physically. You know to where it was affecting me daily and my energy level, getting out of bed, those things. What's interesting, one of the biggest things that I struggled with was while I was going down that path, I almost had this parallel path. There was just this amazing life my career was going great, I was making enough money. Hey got lucky and found this woman that decided to marry me who's just amazing. I had a couple of kids that were healthy and beautiful and I had more friends, you know, than a guy probably deserves. And so I was going down these two parallel paths and I almost couldn't reconcile them, and so what happened is kind of the dark side. The dark path took over, and what happened when I was drinking was either it stopped being partying and it started leading towards either sorrow or anger.

Speaker 3: 6:26

Finally, just after my 41st birthday, the depression had taken over. The beauty in my life I couldn't see anymore and I tried to take my life. It was August of 2010. And so that was the turning point, you know. That was when I knew that I needed to reevaluate in my mind what I thought. I had to reevaluate everything, everything about my life, who I was, what I wanted to do, what I liked, what I didn't like. And so I began the journey of recovering from alcoholism and recovering from depression at the same time.

Speaker 3: 7:09

And what worked for me was, instead of focusing on the negative, instead of focusing on not drinking, not being depressed you know, getting through loss and grieving what worked for me was looking towards wellness, looking towards health physical health, mental health, emotional health so I really started to try and focus on those are the. What are the things that I wanted to do? Who did I want to be? Where did I want to go?

Speaker 3: 7:40

And writing became a big part of that. I had this, you know I was a newspaper guy in junior high and high school, and so I think I had this writing passion inside of me. That went away when I got into business. But I found that again and I realized that you know, I love writing. Maybe I can write about what I went through, what I'm going through, and maybe that will translate to helping somebody else out. And so then that's, that's really where I'm at today. I wrote a memoir, you know, about my struggles and my successes after my suicide attempts, and I'm going to continue writing as my I have, not only working through my thoughts but maybe sharing and connecting with with other people.

Speaker 1: 8:30

So so that's where I'm at today, man, that's just such a powerful story and I just wanted to to acknowledge that I hear you and I see you and I honor your presence today for sharing this time with us, because it's so important for for men to hear that all of us struggle through life, and you know we're going to get into your memoir the choosing life and how you made that choice, cause there's many of us that choose not to make that have that as a decision, as as some of the latest stats are showing that you know, men are four times more likely to commit suicide than than women, and I think we make choices based based on some things that we just not, we don't know how to deal with, and and so, while that was a real heavy piece, I just thought of asking the other side of that question and something a little bit more uplifting for you what's alive and real for you today?

Speaker 3: 9:22

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I do. Like I said, I what one of the things that I talk about with, with anybody who will listen, is is this idea that let's, let's go towards something, let's do something, let's don't don't something, let's not run from something, let's travel to something. And so, yeah, I do. I like to talk about wellness and and holistic health, and what that feels like is a glimmer of hope. You know, I think it's important, like you said, for people to recognize, hey, people struggle, but people do get through it, and no matter how far down the dark path you were or you think you might be going, we can get out of it. And so for me, you know, there's a there's. It might sound trite, but it really comes down to, for me, living in the moment and being present and recognizing that, just the goodness that exists around us. You know my family I've got four amazing kids my wife I live in just a beautiful part of the world and the Puget Sound area around Seattle. My health I don't take that for granted at all. I work on that all the time. You know it's tied for my number one priority, along with supporting my family, and so it's doing the things that progress, my recovery and I say recovery to me that's a positive word.

Speaker 3: 10:53

Some people might think of it as, oh man, I'm recovering from this thing and I got to get through it so I can get to the next thing. To me, recovery is is an opportunity to look at life in a different lens than maybe somebody who didn't struggle or who didn't go through trauma or who didn't make that decision that hey, I'm going to improve, I'm going to change, I'm going to grow, and so recovery to me is a positive thing. So I think about those things that helped me in recovery, and it's not only doing things for myself, but then when you're in a place of feeling good well-being, then you can try and relate that to others and maybe be a shoulder for them to lean on or be an ear for them to listen. That's a big part of my life these days is just listening to people tell their story, and when there's an opportunity I can share little bits of mine, but for the most part, let them talk and try and understand what they're going through.

Speaker 1: 11:54

So, yeah, really that, absolutely that, that listening piece, and we were talking about that in our as we were getting back and forth about coming together today and it's really important that, as men, we learn to do that, because we're so quick to jump into fix mode to come into to do something about it right. And you know you talked about in your journey, about recognizing that, instead of focusing on not doing something, you wanted to focus on being something, something different, and that takes focus. And you know you also talked about, you know, really not taking life for granted, and that, to me, is that what epitomizes about being in the moment is when you can recognize that. You know, every morning when we wake up, how grateful are we. And then it's taken me a long time, man, I tell you, you know that just take a lot of stuff for granted.

Speaker 1: 12:43

And I think it was yesterday, I think it was yesterday on my way into work and away from that, from the home here, and I called my wife and I just said I just wanted to tell you that I just know you're still on my mind and and I'm how grateful I am that every morning I get to wake up and roll over and you're still here and I think we just take this simple things you know for granted is in today's day and age, I don't think anything's forever anymore and it takes work, you know. It takes work to heal ourselves, work that we're going to get into with what you've done, but not just healing yourself but the healing through the family as well.

Speaker 3: 13:17

And that you had to do. Yeah, I think that's. I think that's something that you know when you've gone through struggles and those internal struggles then become external and affect other people and people that you love, that's hard and I think that that, to me, takes some work on a regular basis to not regret that, to not let that become a burden. You know, never forget. I think there's a balance, because I, you know, don't forget where you were, because that perhaps might, you know, be the motivation you need to not go back, but don't let it overwhelm you a bit. Acknowledged the fact that maybe you know you could have hurt somebody and the fact that they're still there with you. Like you said, wow, I mean that's. I mean we're pretty lucky. We're pretty lucky to have those people in our lives that have been watched us through our entire journey, for sure, yeah, absolutely, my friend, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 14:18

You know getting into your book there you're writing the preface there that. But we need to. We have to have this need to see for talking and sharing problems that you were saying about listening to other people's problems. But since your book Choosing Life Came Out, how have a conversation been about, about it been going? Are people finding from finding out about this book?

Speaker 3: 14:37

Yeah, so it's been. It's been very it's been interesting. Again, I I feel so fortunate to be in this position where I was able to to put that out there and then have other people come back and say, hey, I read your book and it meant something to me, it moved me and maybe it moved me to take action. And initially I wanted to jump in and talk about a book, like what chapter did you read, or was there a passage that meant a lot to you? And then I realized that wasn't really my place. I told my story, they read my story. My place now was to listen and sit back, and because there's no, no story is going to be exactly the same. We may share some emotions, we may share one thing or maybe a couple, but no stories are the same. And so it took me a couple of months after the book was out to realize that, hey, I'm really here now to listen and that that is part of my current growth is is being able to listen.

Speaker 3: 15:43

And what are people really saying? Because men and I think stereotypically men or men in general, or maybe it's just inherent to men we don't share, we don't want to talk about our feelings. We'll sit next to each other and watch a game and may not say 20 words to each other, but I but I think it's important to not all the time be sharing your emotions. But you need to have a couple of people that you can talk about things with. And if I can be, that for somebody that's just, I mean, that's just a great place to be. But if I can set an example by putting my book out there and somebody, I've had a couple of guys say to me well, if I thought, if you could do it, maybe I could do it too, and so we can lead by example. And then, once you're in that position, then you can just really be a sounding board.

Speaker 3: 16:41

What are they going through? Maybe they're in an early stage that you already went through and you can relate to that. Or maybe you don't need to say anything and all they needed to do was get it off their chest because they didn't feel like they could talk with somebody about it. So it's really, it's really interesting place that I found myself in since my book came out. And then you know, when somebody else shares their stories, it's a reminder that I need to continue to share mine because I'm not through this right. I mean, life still has struggles, and so there's some give and take in there that I think that we, we and again men, I think especially can grow towards or maybe strive towards. Maybe you know.

Speaker 1: 17:26

Yeah, I completely agree. I started doing men's work, you know, just through some of the personal challenges that I had, and you know, and you know I had almost I had married to my high school sweetheart almost 30 years ago and then that that blew up and you know I lost everything. And then married to my current wife and just about blew that one up and and thankfully, you know, she, she gave me opportunity to do some work and it was in that same timeframe of that that I lost my father-in-law. He was really really close to me and and you know, there was just nowhere to go. And, to your point, right, as guys we stand, we tend to struggle to speak up and share what's in us because we have in my experience anyways, it's, I think we feel embarrassed to do that. We're not, we're not sure how to do that. Do we want to be a? We don't want to be that blubbering fool, you know, in a, in a support group of some sort, and because you're probably the only guy in there, number one right.

Speaker 1: 18:21

And and you're sitting there and you need and you have this stuff to get out and you know, as I was saying in the in the intro about our hero's journey I did my experience also sees it shows that a lot of the hurt that we feel shows up as anger and resentment, so we don't know how to express it. And I think when we talk with you know I talk with guests like yourself who've gone through this, your your hero's journey on this planet and now being able to come through the other side to help guide us men who are in a, in a place that you were, even if it is just being that sounding board, that listening, that holding space or creating space so they can share and feel like they're not. There's no shame and judgment in what's happening, and I think we need more of that. We need more guys such as yourself writing books, more podcasts, more everything for for men, and I think this time is right today to for this stuff to happen.

Speaker 3: 19:13

I think you know it. Just you jogged my my thought. There there's. I think there's a lot of times I hear guys say I don't want to be a burden, and, and so I think if someone out there is listening and thinking the same thing, I think they don't realize how much when they share what's going on with them, it helps the person on the other end as well, either inspires them to change or makes them feel better about the fact that they could be on the listening end to somebody. So I get bummed when I hear somebody say I don't want to be a burden, because I don't think they realize they're not only helping themselves, they're helping whoever else is listening, whether it's a group of people, two people, one other person, and I wish that was recognized more out there in the men's communities.

Speaker 1: 20:10

Yeah, I completely agree.

Speaker 1: 20:11

Thank you so much for saying that, because I've caught myself saying that to my wife about being a don't want to be a burden when something as simple as hey did I do my annual physical and there's something that comes up that maybe I don't want to share and it's simple for us to go that way.

Speaker 1: 20:28

I had made a note here about it. I remember there was a gentleman I spoke to and he was talking about mentors and we need three mentors in our life. We need a mentor to mentor us, to help us get to where we are, and that's the work through your book and the work that we're doing here. Then we need people on the same path, so we mentor each other, and then the third mentor is that person that we need to be the mentor to know, and that's that part of what we're really talking about today is that is that sharing and not being a burden, because when we do do, when we do lean into it and share our experience, we're now we may not be unconsciously, not realize that we're helping, we're menting, mentoring this other person who is in need to hear this until we decide to to, you know, drop the veil of shame and that it's okay, you know, then then we can really start healing more than just ourselves. But you know, families and communities, yeah, that's that's great.

Speaker 3: 21:29

That's that. Yeah, I wrote that down to. That's great. Those three mentors that's cool.

Speaker 1: 21:34

You know, speaking, I'm sure you've been have them. Sure, there's been lots of questions and through your journey, and so, as I was thinking about this, what was the most powerful question that you've ever been asked?

Speaker 3: 21:44

Oh, wow, that's a good one, the most powerful question that I've been asked, gosh, you know, I think. I think there's some broad questions and around how, like a big one, because, because alcohol plays such a big role with men and in society in general, I think, and a lot of people that go through depression or struggling with grieving or, I guess, a lack of direction, Alcohol can get in the way of a lot of that. And so how did you stop drinking? So I don't know, we haven't talked about that yet. So I have alcoholism.

Speaker 3: 22:25

We think my dad did, I think his dad did, and and I and I recognized pretty early on, before age 21, that I had some alcoholism, just by the way that I reacted to alcohol, and so part of me healing was stopping drinking. And it's gone great and I and I love it and I'm so thankful for it. My life is so much better without it. But it's hard. It's that's. That's a hard thing to do, and I was a sales guy in business and that's a big part of that culture, and so I think I think when people ask me, how did I stop or how did I make that decision or how did I change my life, for some form of that type of question. It's powerful for two things. One, it's it's a reminder that I made it. You know I made it through.

Speaker 3: 23:20

Those first couple of years are tough, and so so you know, it's like it's a little pat on the back, but then it's also a reminder of how big a deal it is, you know, and, and I, and I'm so inspired when I see guys going through that struggle and maybe, maybe they slip up, and then they, they, they don't drink for six months and then they slip up, and then it's a year, and and I and I, just I get motivated from that because I know that it's not easy at all, and so so I think there's power in that question because, at the very least, they recognize they have a problem or may have a problem, and they need to do something about it. And to me, that's so huge in life that we can, we can say, hey, there's something's wrong. You know, maybe something that worked when I was 25 doesn't work when I'm 45. And I need to make a change.

Speaker 3: 24:23

And so that question could be phrased around many different topics, but to me it comes as how did you stop drinking? How do you continue to not drink, right, and and so those are great conversations. But, yeah, that's, that's a really good question. I may, I may revisit that one.

Speaker 1: 24:39

Yeah, it spurred my. I thought I'd ask that because I was checking out your website, creedslivingcom, and on there you asked questions about what you're asking us what are creeds and I thought, well, what a great question. And so why is it so? I'm going to ask you, why is it important for us to ask ourselves that? And maybe, if you could share some of your creeds that you're living by?

Speaker 3: 25:02

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so creeds. So you know I, as I, as I researched, you know we'll just say the big question how to get better, because I was sick. If you get to the point where you think that life is not worth living anymore, you know the something's gone wrong and and you need to heal. You know you need band-aids and casts and you need therapy, and, and so you know how do I get better and all different philosophies and ways of going about it.

Speaker 3: 25:34

But I always kept hearing about people going down a plan, having a plan or going down a path for 90 days or six months and then it not working anymore. Or gosh, I, you know I was working with a therapist, or I was on an exercise plan in a last year and then I let that go and now I my back hurts again, or now I'm, I'm anxious again and I have anxiety. And so why, why are we have all these great plans but we're not following through with them and they're not taking hold and lasting a lifetime, and it kept coming back to. Maybe we don't understand why we are going through this struggle, because it's hard to make change, whether it's a change in your diet, the change in your attitude, the change in your daily routine, and as the older we get, the harder it becomes. And so if we don't understand why we're doing something, it's going to make it really hard to keep at it for more than 90 days or six months. You know, if we're doing it just because a friend did it, or because Oprah said we should do it, or we read it on the cover of a magazine, that's not going to stick.

Speaker 3: 26:48

So part of what Creed's living is is spending time reflecting and really understanding the why of what we're doing. Because if we are going to stop drinking, if we are going to try and work through the grieving process that maybe was latent 15 or 20 years ago, if we're going to work through regret, or if we're going to try and lose 40 pounds or drop our cholesterol level, whatever it might be, it's going to take work. So we can't just do that because we think it might be good or you know. We need to really understand why, and so that's really what Creed's are about. It's your set of beliefs and values and it's your personal mission statement, and so to me, that and so that's the first part of Creed's living is recognizing that, and for me.

Speaker 3: 27:39

I've got some tangible, simple ones my family. I've got four kids and my wife, and those are reasons and and I'm an old guy with young kids and so, and so I'd like to live a long time so I can spend time with them and be there for them when they're adults. And I'm so thankful for my wife and so I'd like to be there for her, and so my health is important part of that, so that I can support them. So those are some tangible things. But my Creed's aren't really the great.

Speaker 3: 28:12

One of the great things about Creed's is that we can. We can frame them in whatever manner we like. Maybe it's a page long manifesto, might tend to be a little bullet points, and so I think about the two of my big ones are patients and efficiency. And so have patients with myself and patients with the world around me, so that I can hear what's going on in the world around me, I can appreciate what's going on in the world around me, I can have gratitude and I can slow down, and so having some patients is important to me. And then having efficiency I you know I've had Sort of type a personality in the past. I try and temper that, but I like to set goals. I think it's important to be looking forward to something, as I said, and so being able to get through my day without a lot of hiccups. It is important to me, so I like it.

Speaker 3: 29:12

So being able to accomplish things and so to efficiency is sort of that. Just a single bullet point that encompass encompasses all of that. So those are the types of things that fall into place when I think of my creeds. Gratitude is is a huge part of that, and I think that's that's a result of some level of mindfulness, so being mindful Of what I'm doing, what others are doing, nature, and so those are the when I, when I have, when I have this, my creeds are almost a cloud, with these little words in them is how I, is how I picture my creeds. You would think, as somebody who writes, has written a book, I would have this, you know, beautiful manifesto, but my, my creeds are sort of this, this sort of thought bullet, that cloud that's outside of my head. So those are some things that fall into my values and and things that I'm working on right now for myself.

Speaker 1: 30:13

I love that.

Speaker 1: 30:13

You know I'm hearing you have no crease for patience and efficiency and you know, in gratitude, it is what it does for for us.

Speaker 1: 30:22

You know, when we do that, we, we call, we have, we call them Virtues here and practice a virtue a month, and so this month we're practicing the virtue of authenticity and I am a way I ask the guys to do it is to when you have, when you're in a conversation with somebody that you don't agree with, how you respond, are you, are you responding authentically? Are you cringing, are you worried about what you're saying? And so how can you be authentic, true, say what's truly in your heart, still leaving that individual in a, in a, in a good spot, especially if it's a challenging conversation? But you've been able to be authentic and so I like how you're framing this and having it be a way of living to help guide, to guide your direction and guide the direction for everything that you do, and I think those so cool that you know you've got these creeds and I think it's important that we know this is, men for sure, that we use these things like this to just as guideposts to get us Through that next piece.

Speaker 1: 31:24

It helps us make decisions right yeah this is an alignment with being patient today. Right, you know when your kids are out of line.

Speaker 3: 31:32

Well it's. You know, the authenticity is so good, and I think that part of what I had to go, what I had to go through in getting from a place of depression to a place of wellness is is Recognize, getting some self esteem. So I talk about that in my book, and in fact there's there's a couple chapters of it in my book. When I was younger, I had self confidence, and that was based on things that were external to me. It was how well was I doing, you know, on the field of play, or how well I was doing in business, measured by points or money. But it was all external.

Speaker 3: 32:14

And after my attempt and as part of my recovery, I realized that I didn't well look like this. I was a self confident guy. It was all external and I didn't really believe in myself, just me like with nothing, like just blue, and so I had to. That took a long time, first of all, for me to realize that, gosh, I don't have self esteem. And then, once I accepted that, which was, which was a tough pill to swallow, then I had to say, well then, how am I gonna find it? What is, what is it and how am I gonna get there?

Speaker 3: 32:54

And so that was a huge part of my recovery. Once I became comfortable with who I was nothing externally, you know, no, no accolades, forget material things once I became okay with who I was, I realized I had self esteem and then I feel like I can be more authentic Because I believe in who I am and I'm also maybe not as judgmental because I'm again comfortable with me internally and I don't Really have to think about and judge other things and other actions and other people. And so I think that finding self esteem is an important part of authenticity. So I love that virtue for sure.

Speaker 1: 33:42

Yeah, I love that, I like and I really appreciate what you just said. There is the that difference between having self confidence and how you explain. That makes complete sense to me. Our self confidence, how often is it driven by external pieces versus inside? But self esteem is really an inside job and I really like how you made that distinction and I think as as we get older we get the transition and have that understand, that deeper understanding and appreciation. So thank you so much for how you frame that. I really like that. Some great notes on it. What do you have any long term goals for your personal growth? Like you've written the book I'm sure you've, it's changed you immensely, let alone just living the living, the life you have. But then you wrote this book and the change you went through that. But Do you have any long term goals for your personal growth at this stage?

Speaker 3: 34:33

yeah, I want to keep learning. I want to keep learning about all sorts of different topics, but but wellness and holistic health is, you know, it's a, it's big part of my life Parenting relationships. I want to continue to learn. I think to me this there's a place of where the where I'd really like to get in terms of my Wellness and personal growth is is getting to a place where I can really listen to myself, listen to my intuition, maybe, or six cents, so that I can get to a point where I'm, you know, reacting to the world and in an optimal way and moving forward with, again, confidence in myself, my self esteem and who I am and what I'm doing.

Speaker 3: 35:22

Because I think for a lot of my life, a lot of my life, I was, I was so burdened by grieving, grief, depression, this concept, you know. The alcoholism and beyond the alcoholism, this concept that I had to be. You know the partying was such a big part of my life and letting that go that you know I got to a point where I wasn't making rational decisions, I wasn't Seeing reality, I wasn't seeing the beauty in life. I could no longer see that because this depression and alcoholism had tainted my vision. So I think I've done a good job up until now.

Speaker 3: 36:06

You know, the last ten years of growing myself to place where I can see the world as it is, which I believe the world is beautiful and I think when we have A level of well being, we see that. But continuing to really see the world in a in an optimistic way and then being able to listen to myself the best way possible, I think that's where where I'd like to go, the little day to day things. I am working on another book which will be more of traditional self help, self improvement, personal growth, growth book, then choosing life, which was, which is a memoir. I would like to expand on my website, creedslivingcom, and I'd like to get involved in more, you know, organizations like yours and do more podcasts and those sorts of things. So I you know, just through my writing, I think, more than anything, being able to just offer a voice and say, hey, raise my hand, hey, I've been there, I made it through, you know, and maybe you want to think about whether or not you can too, so that's more practical goal for myself.

Speaker 1: 37:25

Right on, brother, love that. What's been the best piece of advice that you've ever been given? When you think about that piece of advice, how has it served you, how is it served you?

Speaker 3: 37:35

and it doesn't still serve you today the best piece of advice that I've been given, you know I was. I was part of a men's group that met on a weekly basis with me for about 90 minutes on Thursday nights there was. There was about 10 of us that were, you know, part of the group at any one time. Guys would float in and out. Sometimes there'd be two or three people that would show up to this group, sometimes 12 would show up and I think I heard it there first. And then I worked with a writing coach for a little while. That that helped me, you know, transition my writing from sort of journaling to something that could be part of a book.

Speaker 3: 38:17

But I think it's, it's around the idea that, you know, we can't, we can't tell other people what to do. We can only tell our own stories and and lead our own lives by example and hope that maybe that would connect with somebody else and and they would make be able to make their own decisions. So it's, you know, the piece of advice really is something around. You can only, you know, do what you do and you have to let other people, you know, take from that on their own, through their own experiences, their own lens. So it's, you know that's not I don't have a beautiful quote for you, but something around that I love that.

Speaker 1: 38:59

I love that. It's outstanding. Yeah, I know blue, everything that we talked about today and maybe there was something we didn't get a chance to touch on. What would be the one takeaway you'd like our listeners to have?

Speaker 3: 39:10

Well, so you know my perspective and in the world that you know that I'm in with choosing life and coming out of alcoholism, depression is is. You know life is good and and. You may not see it now, but if you work and and and really reflect and have a goal of Finding well being, that you can see that life is good and and just someone who's been at the lowest depths that you can be, I understand when things look dark, but I don't think that's real life and and and as you find wellness, I think you'll see that life is good as well and love that.

Speaker 1: 39:52

What a way to some everything up. Just want to say once again, thank you, my friend, for spending time with me today and you know, I think you've said you've shed a lot of light on the power of what of us choosing life, you know, and living through courage, because you've been very courageous and sharing everything you did. Today, if men are interested in getting a hold of you and participating in your book, in your work, and buying your book will be the best way for them to reach you.

Speaker 3: 40:15

So I crades living C R E E D S living, crades living dot com. You can reach me via email and then there's information on my book choosing life there and in my upcoming book will be there as well. But I'll try to try and keep all my writing and updates at crades living dot com perfect I'll make sure that's Information is in the show notes so folks can get out and read.

Speaker 1: 40:38

Get a hold of you doing some outstanding work there, blue. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 40:42

Thank you for being on the show. Thanks for having me appreciate it. Know, what is your definition of courage? Some would say it's doing the things we're afraid to do, and while I agree with that definition, to me courage is so much more. Courage is also having the ability to listen to life, to listen to what others have to say and, maybe even more importantly, listening to what our inner voice has to say. Well, today, my guest shares his courageous journey from alcoholism and depression to wellness and self discovery, and I think you're going to really get a lot of this talk out of this discussion Before we get into a lot of just want.

Speaker 1: 41:17

You know that being a man today has never been more challenging, and so the pain for many of us is real. It's a pain of loneliness and unworthiness, and it's masked by our anger and resentment, and it's all because we are uncertain and afraid to take that next step. So if you're tired and fed up with where your life is, that I'm going to encourage you to start your heroes quest, where you can become more, accomplished more and live more than ever before. What a members dot the way can man dot net. Start your quest today. With that, let's get on with today's episode. Welcome everyone to the revolutionary man podcast in the founder of the way can man movement and your host, alan DeMonceau, was the last time you called upon courage to get you through a challenging time in life. In which voice was the courage battling with? Was it yours or was it with others around? You know, there's never been a more poignant time in life where men are constantly faced with a challenge of determining who we are, what we stand for, and so it takes courage to go out on our heroes journey, pulling ourselves to the dark night of the soul, living with passion, purpose and power.

Speaker 1: 42:23

Well, today, my guest is the epitome of just that. Allow me to introduce him. Andrews is a stay at home dad living across the lake from Seattle, this beautiful wife and four incredible children. Andrews career first was in sales and he spent over 15 years in the technology industry, working for startups some successful, some not in a mid sized companies, and then, ultimately, with IBM. He has a BA in economics and the from the University of Washington and certificates from Bellevue College and both software development, database management, and these days you can find his he finds his favorite things to do are spending time with his family, exercising, listening to music live music that is and going on road trips. Welcome to show blue. How are things today?

Speaker 3: 43:09

my friend had a thank you so much for having me. Things are good, things are good, appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 43:14

Yeah, right on, it was really excited when I, when we started to collaborate on getting you have me guest on the show and you have such an incredible story and so, as you know, if you're familiar with listening to the show, the first question I ask all my guests Is really talk about a bit apart of your heroes quest, and so tell us about that time in your life when you knew things had to change, what you do about that and how that experience shape you in the manual today. Thank you, that's that's a big, big question.

Speaker 3: 43:39

I did. There's a. There's a point. There was a day, there was a moment that in August of 2010. That was the point you know the point in my life when I knew that I needed to make a change. I had.

Speaker 3: 43:54

I spent many of my teens and into my 20s suffering through some traumas. I had a father that took off on us quite a bit and then finally left for good in the middle of the night, came back but then was never really there, and so my mom raised, was raising my brother and me, and then when I was 17, she died suddenly breast cancer, and that was. That was two months following. One of my close, close friends who I who I idolized had died in a freak accident. A few years later I had another friend pass away the age of 24 quickly from cancer and then another woman who had become sort of a second mom to me. She passed away very quickly from cancer and some complications from that. All during that time I was sort of estranged with my father and so I had that trauma going on during that entire period when, when those things were happening, I also I also learned that I was a pretty good drinker. I was a pretty good partier and in my 20s that was fun. But as I hit my 30s and grieving continued from those losses that took place in my 20s and then the level of alcohol that I was drinking grew and became more and more part of my life.

Speaker 3: 45:23

By the time I was in my mid 30s, I had really started to feel depression, sadness, anger, regret, so many negative factors and it really and it really took hold by my late 30s, when the depression had manifested itself physically you know to where it was affecting me daily and my energy level, getting out of bed, those things. What's interesting, one of the biggest things that I struggled with was, while I was going down that path, I almost had this parallel path. There was just this amazing life my career was going great, I was making enough money, got lucky and found this woman that decided to marry me who's just amazing. I had a couple of kids that were healthy and beautiful and I had more friends, you know, than a guy probably deserves. And so I was going down these two parallel paths and I almost couldn't reconcile them. And so what happened is kind of the dark side. The dark path took over, and what happened when I was drinking was either it stopped being partying and it started leading towards either sorrow or anger.

Speaker 3: 46:40

Finally, just after my 41st birthday, the depression had taken over. The beauty in my life I couldn't see anymore and I tried to take my life. It was August of 2010. And so that was the turning point. You know. That was when I knew that I needed to reevaluate in my mind what I thought. I had to reevaluate everything, everything about my life, who I was, what I wanted to do, what I liked, what I didn't like.

Speaker 3: 47:14

And so I began the journey of recovering from alcoholism and recovering from depression at the same time, and what worked for me was, instead of focusing on the negative, instead of focusing on not drinking, not being depressed you know going, you know getting through loss and grieving what worked for me was looking towards wellness, looking towards health physical health, mental health, emotional health. So I really started to try and focus on those are the. What are the things that I wanted to do? Who did I want to be? Where did I want to go?

Speaker 3: 47:53

And writing became a big part of that. I had this, you know, I was a newspaper guy in junior high and high school, and so I think I had this writing passion inside of me. That went away when I got into business, but I found that again and I realized that you know I love writing. Maybe I can write about what I went through, what I'm going through, and maybe that will translate to helping somebody else out, and so then that's. That's really where I'm at today. I wrote a memoir, you know, about my struggles and my successes after my suicide attempts, and I'm going to continue writing as my I have not only working through my thoughts, but maybe sharing and connecting with with other people. So so that's where I'm at today.

Speaker 1: 48:46

Man. That's just such a powerful story and I just wanted to to acknowledge that I hear you and I see you and I honor your presence today for sharing this time with us, because it's so important for for men to hear that all of us struggle through life and you know we're going to get into your memoir their choosing life and how you made that choice, because there's many of us that choose not to make that. Have that as a decision is, as some of the latest stats are showing that you know, men are four times more likely to commit suicide than women, and I think we make choices based based on some things that we just not, we don't know how to deal with. And so, while that was a real heavy piece, I just thought of asking the other side of that question and something a little bit more uplifting for you what's alive and real for you today?

Speaker 3: 49:36

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I do. Like I said, I, one of the things that I talk about with, with anybody who will listen, is is this idea that let's, let's go towards something, let's do something, let's don't don't something, let's not run from something, let's travel to something. And so, yeah, I do. I like to talk about wellness and and holistic health, and what that feels like is a glimmer of hope. You know, I think it's important, like you said, for people to recognize, hey, people struggle, but people do get through it. And no matter how far down the dark path you were or you think you might be going, we can. We can get out of it. And so for me, you know, there's, there's. It might sound trite, but but it really comes down to, for me, living in the moment and being present and recognizing that, just the goodness that exists around us. You know my family I've got four amazing kids, my wife I live in just a beautiful part of the world and the Puget Sound area around Seattle. My health I don't take that for granted at all. I work on that all the time. You know, it's tied for my number one priority, along with supporting my family, and so it's doing the things that progress my recovery and I I say recovery. To me that's a positive word.

Speaker 3: 51:07

Some people might think of it as oh man, I'm recovering from this thing and I got to get through it so I can get to the next thing. To me, recovery is is an opportunity to look at life in a different lens than maybe somebody who didn't struggle or who didn't go through trauma or who didn't make that decision that hey, I'm going to improve, I'm going to change, I'm going to grow, and so recovery to me is a positive thing. So I think about those things that help me in recovery and and it's not only doing things for myself but then when you're in a place of feeling good well-being, then you can try and relate that to others and maybe be a shoulder for them to lean on or be an ear for them to listen. That's a big part of my life these days is just listening to people tell their story, and when there's an opportunity I can share little bits of mine, but for the most part, let them talk and try and understand what they're going through.

Speaker 1: 52:08

So, yeah, really that, absolutely that, that listening piece, and we were talking about that in our as we were getting back and forth about coming together today and it's really important that, as men, we learn to do that, because we're so quick to jump into fixed mode, to jump into to do something about it Right. And you know you talked about in your journey, about recognizing that, instead of focusing on not doing something, you wanted to focus on being something. You know something different and and that takes focus. And you know you, you also talked about, you know, really not taking life for granted, and that, to me, is that what epitomizes about being in the moment is when you can recognize and that you know, every morning when we wake up, how grateful are we.

Speaker 1: 52:50

And then it's taken me a long time, man, I tell you, you know that just take a lot of stuff for granted. And I think it was yesterday, I think it was yesterday on my way into work and away from from the home here, and I called my wife and I just said I just wanted to tell you that I just you know you're still on my mind and and I'm how grateful I am that every morning I get to wake up and roll over and you're still here and I think we just take those simple things you know for granted is in today's day and age, I don't think anything's forever anymore and it takes work, you know. It takes work to heal ourselves, work that we're going to get into with what you have done, but not just healing yourself but the healing through the family as well.

Speaker 3: 53:31

And that you had to do. Yeah, I think that's. I think that's something that you know when you've gone through struggles, and those internal struggles then become external and affect other people and people that you love, that's hard and I think that that, to me, takes some work on on a regular basis to not regret that, to not let that become a burden. You know, never forget. I think there's a balance, because I, you know, don't forget where you were, because that perhaps might, you know, be the motivation you need to not go back, but but don't let it overwhelm you a bit. Acknowledge the fact that maybe you know you could have hurt somebody and and the fact that they're still there with you. Like you said, wow, I mean that's. I mean we're pretty lucky. We're pretty lucky to have those people in our lives that have been watched us through our entire journey.

Speaker 1: 54:28

For sure, yeah, absolutely, my friend. Absolutely. You know getting into your book there. You're right in the preface there that. But we need to. We have to have this need to see for talking and sharing problems that you were saying about listening to other people's problems. But since your book Choosing Life came out, how have a conversation been about, about it been going? Are people finding from finding out about this book?

Speaker 3: 54:50

Yeah, so it's been. It's been very it's been interesting. Again, I I feel so fortunate to be in this position where I was able to to put that out there and then have other people come back and say, hey, I read your book and it meant something to me, it moved me and maybe it moved me to take action. And initially I wanted to jump in and talk about a book, like what chapter did you read, or was there a passage that meant a lot to you? And then I realized that wasn't really my place. I told my story, they read my story. My place now was to listen and sit back, and because there's no, no story is going to be exactly the same. We may share some emotions, we may share one thing or maybe a couple, but no stories are the same. And so it took me a couple of months after the book was out to realize that, hey, I'm really here now to listen and that that is part of my current growth is is being able to listen.

Speaker 3: 55:57

And what are people really saying? Because men and I think stereotypically men or men in general, or maybe it's just inherent to men we don't share, we don't want to talk about our feelings. You know we'll sit next to each other and watch a game and may not say 20 words to each other, but I and I. But I think it's important to not all the time be sharing your emotions. But you need to have a couple people that you can talk about things with. And if I can be that for somebody, that's just. I mean, that's just a great place to be.

Speaker 3: 56:34

But if I can set an example by putting my book out there and somebody I've had a couple of guys say to me, well, if I thought if you could do it, maybe I could do it too, and so we can lead by example. And then, once you're in that position, then you can just really be a sounding board. What are they going through? Maybe they're in an early stage that you already went through and you can relate to that, or maybe you don't need to say anything and all they needed to do was get it off their chest because they didn't feel like they could talk with somebody about it. So it's really, it's really interesting place that I found myself in since my book came out. And then you know, when somebody else shares their stories, it's a reminder that I need to continue to share mine, because I'm not through this right. I mean, life still has struggles and so there's some give and take in there that I think that we and again men, I think especially can grow towards or maybe strive towards. Maybe you know.

Speaker 1: 57:40

Yeah, I completely agree. I started doing men's work, you know, just through some of the personal challenges that I had, and you know, and you know I had almost I had married to my high school sweetheart almost 30 years ago and then that that blew up and you know I lost everything. And then married to my current wife and just about blew that one up and and thankfully you know, she, she gave me opportunity to do some work and it was in that same timeframe of that that I lost my father-in-law. He was really really close to me and and you know, there was just nowhere to go. And, to your point, right, as guys we stand, we tend to struggle to speak up and and share what's in us because we have in my experience anyways, it's, I think we feel embarrassed to do that. We're not, we're not sure how to do that. Do we want to be a? We don't want to be that blubbering fool, you know, in a, in a support group of some sort, and because you're probably the only guy in there, number one right.

Speaker 1: 58:35

And, and you're sitting there and you need and you have this stuff to get out. And you know, as I was saying in the in the intro about our hero's journey, I did my experience also sees it shows that a lot of the hurt that we feel shows up as anger and resentment, so we don't know how to express it. And I think when we talk with you know I talk with guests like yourself who've gone through this, your your hero's journey on this planet and now being able to come through the other side to help guide us men who are in a in a place that you were, and even if it is just being that sounding board, that listening, that holding space or creating space so they can share and feel like they're not, there's no shame in judgment, in what's happening. And I think we need more of that. We need more guys such as yourself writing books, more podcasts, more everything for for men, and I think this time is right today to for the stuff to happen.

Speaker 3: 59:27

I think you know it. Just you jogged my my thought there. I there's. I think there's a lot of times I hear guys say I don't want to be a burden, yeah, and, and. So I think if someone out there is listening and thinking the same thing, I think they don't realize how much, when they share what's going on with them, it helps the person on the other end as well, either inspires them to change or makes them feel better about the fact that they could be on the listening end to somebody. So I get bummed when I hear somebody say I don't want to be a burden, because I don't think they realize they're not only helping themselves, they're helping whoever else is listening, whether it's a group of people, two people, one other person and I wish that was recognized more out there in the men's communities.

Speaker 1: 1:00:24

Yeah, I completely agree and thank you so much for saying that, because I've caught myself saying that to my wife about being a don't want to be a burden when something as simple as hey did I do my annual physical, you know and there's something that comes up that maybe I don't want to share, and you know it's simple for us to go that way, but I had made a note here about it.

Speaker 1: 1:00:44

I remember there was a gentleman I spoke to and he was talking about mentors and we need, you know, we need three mentors in our life. And we need a mentor to mentor us, to help us get to where we are, and that's the work you know with through your book and the work that we're doing here. Then we need people on the same, on the same path, so we mentor each other and then the third mentor is that person that we need to be the mentor to know, and that's that part of what we're really talking about today is that, is that sharing and not being a burden, because when we do do, when we do lean into it and and share our experience, we're now we may not be unconsciously, not realize that we're helping, we're menting, mentoring this other person who is in need to hear this until we decide to, to you know, drop the veil of shame and that it's OK, you know. Then then we can really start healing more than just ourselves. But you know, families and communities, yeah, that's that's great.

Speaker 3: 1:01:44

That's that. Yeah, I wrote that down to. That's great. Those three mentors that's cool.

Speaker 1: 1:01:48

You know, speaking, I'm sure you've been had them. Sure, there's been lots of questions through your journey, and so, as I was thinking about this, what was the most powerful question that you've ever been asked?

Speaker 3: 1:01:58

Oh, wow, that's a good one, the most powerful question that I've been asked, gosh, you know, I think. I think there's some broad questions and around how, like a big one, because, because alcohol plays such a big role with men and in society in general, I think, and a lot of people that go through depression or struggling with grieving or, I guess, a lack of direction, Alcohol can get in the way of a lot of that. And so how did you stop drinking? So I don't know, we haven't talked about that yet. So I have alcoholism.

Speaker 3: 1:02:39

We think my dad did, I think his dad did, and and I and I recognized pretty early on, before age 21, that I had some alcoholism, just by the way that I reacted to alcohol, and so part of me healing was stopping drinking and it's gone great, and I and I love it and I'm so thankful for it. My life is so much better without it. But it's hard. It's that's. That's a hard thing to do, and I was a sales guy in business and that's a big part of that culture, and so I think I think when people ask me, how did I stop or how did I make that decision or how did I change my life, for some form of that type of question. It's powerful for two things. One, it's it's a reminder that I made it. You know I made it through.

Speaker 3: 1:03:34

Those first couple of years are tough, and so so you know it's like it's a little fat on the back, but then it's also a reminder of how big a deal it is, you know, and and and I and I'm so inspired when I see guys going through that struggle and and maybe maybe they slip up, and then they, they, they don't drink for six months and then they slip up, and then it's a year, and and I and I just I get motivated from that because I know that it's not easy at all, and so so I think there's power in that question because, at the very least, they recognize they have a problem or may have a problem, and they need to do something about it.

Speaker 3: 1:04:22

And to me, that's so huge in life that we can, we can say, hey, there's something's wrong. You know, maybe something that worked when I was 25 doesn't work when I'm 45 and I need to make a change. And so that question could be phrased around many different topics, but to me it comes as how did you stop drinking? How do you continue to not drink, right, and and so those are great conversations. But, yeah, that's, that's a really good question. I may, I may revisit that one.

Speaker 1: 1:04:53

Yeah, it spurred my. I thought I'd ask that because I was checking out your website, creedslivingcom, and on there you ask questions about. You're asking us what are creeds. I thought, well, what a great question. And so why is it? So? I'm going to ask you, why is important for us to ask ourselves that, and maybe if you could share some of your creeds that you're living by?

Speaker 3: 1:05:16

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so creeds. So you know I, as I, as I researched, you know we'll just say the big question how to get better, because I was sick. If you get to the point where you think that life is not worth living anymore, you know something's gone wrong and you need to heal. You know you need band-aids and casts and you need therapy, and, and so you know how do I get better and all different philosophies and ways of going about it.

Speaker 3: 1:05:48

But I always kept hearing about people going down a plan, having a plan, or going down a path for 90 days or six months and and then it not working anymore. Or gosh, I, you know I was working with a therapist, or I was on an exercise plan in a last year and then I let that go and now I my back hurts again, or now I'm, I'm anxious again and I have anxiety. And so why? Why are we have all these great plans but we're not following through with them and they're not taking hold and lasting a lifetime, and it kept coming back to. Maybe we don't understand why we are going through this struggle, because it's hard to make change, whether it's a change in your diet, a change in your attitude, the change in your daily routine, and as the older we get, the harder it becomes. And so if we don't understand why we're doing something, it's going to make it really hard to keep at it for more than 90 days or six months. You know, if we're doing it just because a friend did it, or because Oprah said we should do it, or we read it on the cover of a magazine, that's not going to stick.

Speaker 3: 1:07:02

So part of what Creed's living is is spending time reflecting and really understanding the why of what we're doing. Because if we are going to stop drinking, if we are going to try and work through the grieving process that maybe was latent 15 or 20 years ago, if we're going to work through regret, or if we're going to try and lose 40 pounds or drop our cholesterol level, whatever it might be, it's going to take work. So we can't just do that because we think it might be good or you know. We need to really understand why, and so that's really what Creed's are about. It's your set of beliefs and values and it's your personal mission statement, and so to me, that and so that's the first part of Creed's living is recognizing that, and for me I've got some tangible, simple ones my family. I've got four kids and my wife, and those are reasons and and I'm an old guy with young kids and so, and so I'd like to live a long time so I can spend time with them and be there for them when they're adults. And I'm so thankful for my wife and so I'd like to be there for her, and so my health is important part of that, so that I can support them. So those are some tangible things.

Speaker 3: 1:08:23

But my Creed's aren't really the great. One of the great things about Creed's is that we can. We can frame them in whatever manner we like. Maybe it's a page long manifesto might tend to be a little bullet points, and so I think about two of my big ones are patients and efficiency. And so have patients with myself and patients with the world around me, so that I can hear what's going on in the world around me, I can appreciate what's going on in the world around me, I can have gratitude and I can slow down, and so having some patients is important to me. And then having efficiency I you know I've had Sort of type a personality in the past.

Speaker 3: 1:09:10

I try and temper that, but I like to set goals.

Speaker 3: 1:09:15

I think it's important to be looking forward to something, as I said, and so being able to get through my day without a lot of hiccups. It is important to me, so I like it. So being able to accomplish things, and so to efficiency is sort of that. Just a single bullet point that encompass encompasses all of that. So those are the types of things that Fall into place when I think of my creeds.

Speaker 3: 1:09:41

Gratitude is is a huge part of that, and I think that's that's a result of some level of mindfulness, so being mindful Of what I'm doing, what others are doing, nature, and so those are the when I, when I have, when I have this, my creeds are almost a cloud, with these little words in them, is how I, is how I picture my creeds. You would think, as somebody who writes, has written a book, I would have this, you know, beautiful manifesto, but my, my creeds are sort of this, this sort of thought bullet, that cloud outside of my head. So those are some things that fall into my values and and things I'm working on right now for myself I love that.

Speaker 1: 1:10:27

you know, I'm hearing you have no crease for patients and efficiency and you know, in gratitude, it is what it does for for us. You know, when we do that, we, we call, we have, we call them Virtues here and we practice a virtue a month and so this month we're we're practicing the virtue of authenticity and I am the way I ask the guys to do it is to, when you have, when you're in a conversation with somebody that you don't agree with, how you respond.

Speaker 1: 1:10:57

Are you? Are you responding authentically? Are you cringing? Are you worried about what you're saying? And so how can you be authentic, true, say what's truly in your heart, still leaving that individual in a, in a, in a good spot, especially if it's a challenging conversation? But you've been able to be authentic and so I like how you're framing this and having it be a Way of living to help guide, to guide your direction and guide the direction for for everything that you do, and I think those so cool that you know you've got these creeds, and I think it's important that we know is, as men, for sure, that we use these things like this to just as guideposts to get us Through that next piece. It helps us make decisions right.

Speaker 3: 1:11:40

Is this.

Speaker 1: 1:11:41

is this an alignment with being patient today, right when your kids are out of line?

Speaker 3: 1:11:46

Well it's. You know, the authenticity is so good, and I think that part of what I had to go, what I had to go through In getting from a place of depression to a place of wellness, is is recognize, is getting some self esteem. So I talk about that in my book and in fact there's, there's a couple chapters Of it in my book. When I was younger, I had self confidence, and that was based on things that were external to me. It was how well was I doing, you know, on the field of player, how well I was doing in business, measured by points or money. But it was all external.

Speaker 3: 1:12:28

And after my attempt and as part of my recovery, I realized that I didn't well look like this. I was a self confident guy. It was all external and I didn't really believe in myself, just me like with nothing, like just blue, and so I had to. That took a long time, first of all, for me to realize that, gosh, I don't have self esteem. And then, once I accepted that, which was a tough pill to swallow then I had to say, well then, how am I going to find it, what is it, yeah, and how am I going to get there?

Speaker 3: 1:13:08

And so that was a huge part of my recovery. Once I became comfortable with who I was nothing externally, you know, no, no, no accolades, forget material things. Once I became okay with who I was, I realized I had self esteem and then I feel like I can be more authentic Because I believe in who I am and I'm also maybe not as judgmental because I'm again comfortable with me internally and I don't really have to think about and judge other things and other actions and other people. So I think that finding self esteem is an important part of authenticity. So I love that virtue for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:13:56

Yeah, I love that, I like and I would really appreciate what you just said. There is the that difference between having self confidence and how you explain. That makes complete sense to me. Our self confidence how often is it driven by external pieces versus inside? And self esteem is really an inside job and I really like how you made that distinction and I think, as as we get older we get the transition and have that understand, that deeper understanding and appreciation. So thank you so much for how you frame that. I really like that, took some great notes on it. What do you have any long term goals for your personal growth? Like you've written the book, I'm sure you've. It's changed you immensely, let alone just living the living, the life you have. But then you wrote this book and the change you went through that. But Do you have any long term goals for your personal growth at this stage?

Speaker 3: 1:14:47

Yeah, I want to keep learning. I want to keep learning about all sorts of different topics, but but wellness and holistic health is, you know, it's a, it's a big part of my life Parenting relationships. I want to continue to learn. I think to me this there's this place of where the where I'd really like to get in terms of my Wellness and personal growth is is getting to a place where I can really listen to myself, listen to my intuition maybe, or a sixth sense, so that I can get to a point where I'm, you know, reacting to the world and in an optimal way and moving forward with, again, confidence in myself, my self esteem and who I am and what I'm doing.

Speaker 3: 1:15:36

Because I think for a lot of my life, a lot of my life, I was, I was so burdened by grieving, grief, depression, this concept, you know the alcoholism and beyond the alcoholism, this concept that I had to be. You know the partying was such a big part of my life and letting that go that you know I got to a point where I wasn't making rational decisions, I wasn't Seeing reality, I wasn't seeing the beauty in life. I could no longer see that because this depression and alcoholism had tainted my vision. So I think I've done a good job up until now. You know, the last 10 years of growing Myself to place where I can see the world as it is, which I believe the world's beautiful and I think when we have a level of well being, we see that. But continuing to really see the world in a in an optimistic way and then being able to listen to myself the best way possible, I think that's where where I'd like to go, the little day to day things I I'm.

Speaker 3: 1:16:52

I'm working on another book which will be more of a traditional self help, self improvement, personal growth, growth book Choosing life, which was, which is a memoir. I would like to expand on my website, creedslivingcom, and I'd like to get involved in more, you know, organizations like yours and do more podcasts and those sorts of things. So you know, just through my writing, I think, more than anything, being able to just offer a voice and say, hey, raise my hand, hey, I've been there, I've made it through. You know, and maybe you want to think about whether or not you can too. So that's more practical goal for myself.

Speaker 1: 1:17:39

Right on, brother love. That is what's been the best piece of advice that you've ever been given. When you think about that piece of advice, how has it served you to? How is it served you? And it doesn't still serve you today the best piece of advice that I've been given.

Speaker 3: 1:17:55

You know I was. I was part of a men's group that met on a weekly basis with me for about 90 minutes on Thursday nights there was there was about 10 of us that were, you know, part of the group at any one time. Guys would float in and out. Sometimes there'd be two or three people that would show up to this group, sometimes 12 would show up and I think I heard it there first. And then I worked with a writing coach for a little while. That helped me, you know, transition my writing from sort of journaling to something that could be part of a book.

Speaker 3: 1:18:31

But I think it's. It's around the idea that, you know, we can't, we can't tell other people what to do. We can only tell our own stories and lead our own lives by example and hope that maybe that would connect with somebody else and and they would make be able to make their own decisions. So it's, you know, the piece of advice really is something around. You can only, you know, do what you do and you have to let other people, you know, take from that on their own, through their own experiences, their own lens. So it's, you know, that's not I don't have a beautiful quote for you, but something around that.

Speaker 1: 1:19:13

I love that. I love that. It's outstanding. Yeah, I know blue of everything that we talked about today, and maybe there was something we didn't get a chance to touch on. What would be the one takeaway you'd like our listeners to have?

Speaker 3: 1:19:24

Well, so you know my perspective and in the world that you know that I'm in with, choosing life and coming out of alcoholism and depression is is you know life is good and and. You may not see it now, but if you work and, and and really reflect and have a goal of finding well being, that you can see that life is good and and just someone who's been at the lowest depths that you can be, I understand when things look dark, but I don't think that's real life and and and as you find wellness, I think you'll see that life is good as well. Man love that.

Speaker 1: 1:20:04

what a way to sum everything up, just want to say once again, thank you, my friend, for spending time with me today and you know, I think you've said you've shed a lot of light on the power of what of us choosing life, you know, and living through courage, because you've been very courageous and sharing everything you did. Today, if men are interested in getting a hold of you and participating in your book and in your work, and buying your book will be the best way for them to reach you.

Speaker 3: 1:20:29

So Creed's Living, cr, eds Living. Creed's Livingcom. You can reach me via email and then there's information on my book Choosing Life there and in my upcoming book will be there as well. But I'll try, I'm going to try and keep all of my writing and updates at Creed's Livingcom Perfect.

Speaker 1: 1:20:48

I'll make sure that's information is in the show notes so folks can get it out and read. Get a hold of you. You're doing some outstanding work there, blue. Thank you so much again brother for being on the show.

Speaker 3: 1:20:58

Thanks for having me Appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 1:21:07

Thank you for listening to the Revolutionary man podcast. Are you ready to own your destiny, to become more the man you're destined to be? Join the Brotherhood that is the Awakened man at TheAwakendMannet and start forging a new destiny today.