When We Give Too Much with Reiki Women Podcast

In this episode of the Reiki Women Podcast, hosts Carrie Varela, Michaela Daystar, and Bronwen Logan discuss the topic of overgiving, a common issue in the healer and helper archetypes. 

They discuss the importance of self-awareness, balance, and healthy boundary creation in the process of providing and receiving care. The conversation touches on how cultural expectations, personal tendencies, and professional pressures can contribute to overgiving, and how working with Symbol 2 and the mantra Sei Heki and adherence to Reiki Precepts can guide practitioners in maintaining balance. 

Different perspectives on offering free Reiki services and the idea of payment for service are also deliberated. The hosts underline the need for compassion, harmony, and understanding personal capacity for giving, in order to maintain an abundant and resourced self.

00:06 Introduction to the Reiki Women Podcast
00:53 Exploring the Concept of Overgiving
02:12 The Reiki Perspective on Giving Too Much
05:17 Understanding the Balance in Reiki Practice
09:25 The Importance of Self-Knowledge in Reiki
10:57 The Challenges of Overgiving in Reiki
15:50 The Role of Compassion in Reiki Practice
24:09 The Value of Reiki and the Importance of Reciprocity
44:56 Conclusion: Embracing Boundaries and Self-Worth in Reiki

Additional Resources:
- Join our Facebook Group: Embodying Reiki
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1564135767437136
- Subscribe to our YouTube channel
 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz6Jk8QD_8hjlfpSM8suMIA

Bronwen Logan: https://ReikiwithBronwen.com
Carrie Varela: https://www.reikihealingsociety.com
Michaela Daystar: https://www.heartscapesinsight.com/

🔔 Don't forget to subscribe, comment, and share to spread the knowledge and connect with the Reiki community.

Transcript

0:06

Hello and welcome to the Reiki Women podcast. And my name is Keri Varela with the Reiki Healing Society, and I want to welcome all of you who are listening to the Reiki Women podcast, and if you don't know this already or haven't listened all the way to the end of our episodes, usually we send lots of love and gratitude and accolades to all of our listeners at the end of the podcast. But I thought today we could start with accolades for you. We just want to know how much you to know how much we love and adore all of you listening and just feel this wonderful sense of community gathering around this podcast. And so we hope that this, our words and our weekly chat together, um, as this kind of Reiki family. It's been really supportive for you. And today we're going to talk about, um, probably a topic that we, as if you identify as a healer or helper or a nurturing archetype, you probably have had to look at this question and it's What does it look like to give too much? What happens when we give too much? And, uh, why, as, uh, open hearted, caring, compassionate people, do we have this tendency to, like, over give, give beyond our boundaries, our capacities to give, um, and maybe kind of overwhelm the people who we are trying to serve? So I know my beautiful colleagues who I haven't had a chance to introduce yet. Uh, we got Michaela Daystar from Heartscapes, Reiki, and Bronwyn Logan from Reiki with Bronwyn, and so I'm sure we all have a lot of wisdom to share with each other, and I'm actually particularly looking forward to hearing from you two about your thoughts on this topic, because I know for myself that this is one of my Achilles heels. I. Do tend to overgive and, uh, it's caused me some issues in my life for sure. So I'd love to hand it over to Bronwyn and Bronwyn, tell us what have you done to navigate this whole topic of, of giving too much? I think Reiki people, I think we can really relate to this, right? It's something that, uh, I guess there's a number of reasons, but one might be because when we start. Learning the system of Reiki, a lot of people begin, I notice in classes, a lot of people who are in a Reiki One class, they'll say that the reason they're there is because maybe a family member's sick, or, you know, there's someone close to them that they would really like to be able to help. So already we're starting from a point of, um, giving, which is wonderful. It's a beautiful thing to be able to give and to be with others and to share. Um. Um, but because our trainings are short and they're not based, uh, you know, it's, it's, we don't have years of, of learning and we've sort of been around this subject recently with another subject, whichever one that was, I can't remember, but you know, this whole thing that we don't actually spend years learning how to be, or when we were doing the psychology one counselors or anything like that. So there can be a sense of uncertainty about, um, how much to give. You know, I mean, it sounds, and, and, and when we learn the system of Reiki, we have the precepts and, and the last of the precepts is, you know, to be compassionate to, to everyone. And, and so sometimes in that space, we think, Oh, we have to give to absolutely everyone. And we, we, we should not hold back and, uh, And yet, is that really what that all means? Is that, uh, is, is it, is that what we're meant to be doing as Reiki practitioners? Is it compassionate to totally give completely of ourselves? Well, I guess it's a definition thing, but, uh, we were talking also recently about, uh, wrathful compassion. Compassion doesn't mean just total giving to, it might also mean, um, holding back. So we need to be thoughtful about how we are helpful to others and helpful to ourselves. Now the reasons why we might actually not understand this and feel unbalanced in this space, I think that can, that could be for everybody an issue. Maybe we don't feel worthy. Maybe we have a fear of, um, Of, of yeah, not being good enough. So we always keep giving and giving and giving, thinking that the more that I give, Oh, surely they're going to like me. Um, I'm, that's also another aspect. I think that people have issues with that. They want to be liked. Why not? Hey, it's, I guess that's a fundamental thing that we probably all want to some degree, but just giving, giving, giving of the self is not necessarily the answer to that. So I think the answer probably lies. in the system of Reiki as a way of supporting us. If we were to look at, for example, the second symbol and mantra, um, the second symbol, we, we call it harmony. Uh, so it's helping us move into this harmonious space. And I think we're out of harmony. We're out of balance. If we are Giving, giving, giving, and not necessarily in this sharing space of also receiving. So, uh, which is something that we, we need to be able to be in. Otherwise we, uh, burn ourselves out as Carrie was saying earlier. So if we look at this space of harmony, uh, that is interesting because, uh, the second symbol of mantra, they, um, If we look at the actual symbol, it relates back to the, um, seed syllable, um, Kirikou or Ri. And that is actually a symbol for Amida, Amida Nyorai. And Amida Nyorai is, um, this deity that illuminates everything with compassion. And we come back to compassion again. So it's sort of like this cycle. So we've, we've seen compassion at the bottom of the precepts. And I was just saying, compassion doesn't mean just. giving to everybody. Yeah. And then if we look at harmony, symbol two, working on ourselves, a disposition, if we translate it, you know, say, hey, key, a disposition, one's natural disposition, um, which is to be in a state of balance and harmony. So that's where we need to find ourselves. So we can, within the system of Reiki, work on this and we're very blessed to be able to have, um, this particular tool. So we could chant Sei He Ki, we could draw Sei He Ki, say the mantra three times. These are tools that we have that specifically work with this aspect of finding balance in our lives and Seeing if seeing if we can find a way to understand within us what it actually means to find harmony, what balance mean at balance means and what compassion means. So none of these things are about entirely. giving yourself to the point of no return. And they are in fact about us being able to sit inside ourselves to be strong and healthy within ourselves. They're tools to work on ourselves so that we are strong and are then able to be there for others. So I think there's, there's this balance and, uh, We need to be really thoughtful about this and careful. And, uh, luckily, as I say, we have the tools. Yeah, we've got really good tools for this actually. Um, and it's a good thing because as you both have indicated, this is a particular challenge for people in our industry for a lot of reasons. I want to pause though, and firstly say that Bronwyn, your lime green nail polish is just on point today. Okay. It's making me very happy. Those of you listening on the audio only, you might want to jump over to YouTube and just have a look. Okay. Had to get that out of the way. Um, yeah, so gosh, there's so much, there's so much here. And I love that you rooted us into the precepts and in to say, Hey, key and harmony here to begin with. Um, and you know, for me, when we think about this topic of overgiving of ourselves, which can look at like over giving our time. our energy, um, you know, Reiki sessions, um, our listening ear, um, our, our money, you know, overgiving, um, you know, sessions, uh, at no cost. It's all kinds of ways we can overgive, um, of ourselves. There is this piece of the importance of self knowledge, self awareness, and awareness of the system of Reiki in what these things really mean. And you got us really well grounded in a beginning there, Bronwyn. So when it comes to self knowledge, there's kind of a couple of things there that I have in mind. Firstly, we need to know what our actual limits are, and that's like our limits generally. And our limits on a given day, which of course is going to vary quite a bit. Um, you know, Carrie just is getting over a cold and she had to teach a class anyway. You know, that probably took a lot of energy for you. But it was good and right for you to hold that commitment and to maybe give a little bit extra of your energy. Even though you were not feeling well, right? But my hope is that you're giving yourself a little bit of extra care on the back end of that. Um, you know, so on a given day, we might have more or less energy to give. Um, we might just as a person have more or less energy to give. I tend to be a person who needs a lot of kind of down time and a lot of slowness. And so if there's going to be a time when it's right for me to give a lot of my energy and my attention, I know I have to kind of bracket that. with some slowing down time. Other people have a lot more, um, energy reserves to give. Um, and they can know that about themselves. So we can't judge on what's an appropriate amount of time or energy of ourselves to give, um, in comparison to other people, because we all are different with our capacities and will be different from day to day. Um, so having that That sense of self knowledge is really important. A little bit deeper than that, understanding what our motivations to overgive might be. So in this sense, I'm speaking from the perspective of a recovering codependent, um, who spent most of my adult life Overgiving of my time and my energy, um, to specific people, um, in general, but to a couple of specific people in particular, and you know, I did, you know, my first, the first step of my self healing journey was to spend a year in codependence, anonymous, uh, do some good old fashioned 12 step program and to really get a grip on what my motivations were for giving. Um, they were rooted in fear. They were rooted in the fear of being rejected, of not being good enough, of, you know, people not liking me, of losing my family, you know, all of these, like, abandonment fears that were very, very old from, you know, very young age, um, were the source of my overgiving. Now, of course, that's a very unhealthy way to give right to give. You know, we want that to come from compassion and connection and love and generosity and abundance, right? We don't want it to come from fear, right? We don't want it to come from a sense that I'll be abandoned if I don't just give everything I've got, right? And so all of that, you know, I was really just coming to terms with and getting a grip on when I started practicing Reiki. And I very much, and I've shared this in other podcasts, uh, episodes, I very much began my Reiki journey as another way to overgive. It was very much like, I'm going to learn how to be a healer. And I'm going to have this really new, exciting, you know, fancy, magical way to give to other people. And there was, there was goodness and generosity in that impulse to be sure, but it was also a carryover of that codependent behavior. Like I hadn't fully. Worked through that. Yeah. I don't know if I'll ever fully 100 percent work through those tendencies, but I'm in a much different place now than I was then because there was this, this way in which, you know, pretty much right away, it was like, Oh, let me give you a Reiki. Let me give you a Reiki. Let me give you a Reiki. There was this like impulse to like give of my time and my, yeah. You know, my energy and my craft, and, um, that, you know, added to senses of depletion at times. Um, there's a, so the other piece, you know, around knowledge is having a grounded knowledge about Reiki itself. Um, and, you know, we've talked before that there are some. Um, ways of understanding Reiki from a Western perspective that are very different from the ways of understanding Reiki from its original perspective. And one of those ways is this idea that we're kind of channeling universe energy through ourself, and that it shouldn't actually have any impact on us, except maybe, you know, regenerating us as we're sharing Reiki. Um, and it's certainly true that sharing Reiki from any perspective can have an energizing or a nourishing impact. I mean, it should write our, our, our practice should have a nourishing impact on us. Um, even when we're practicing on another person, but I've seen conversations where a person will say, I did a series of Reiki sessions today. I felt really tired afterward. Did I do something wrong? And I've had people seen people respond to that saying, Oh, you must have been, you know, sending too much of your own energy and. Not, you know, channeling energy properly, or you didn't close down the energy at the end. And so you're like siphoning it out or like some very interesting responses coming through that. And, you know, I want, and I kind of just stepped into these conversations with like, you know, Reiki energy is not the only thing that's being spent when we're spending an entire day doing sessions for people, right? We're spending our time, we're spending our attention, our focus, we're using our, the muscles, you know, of our body to, to. You know, engage in the physical activity of the session. We're using emotional energy, interacting with people, particularly when our clients are having a really rough time or they're wanting to talk a lot or, you know, engage with us a lot. We might be an introverted person and just having all of those engagements with people can be draining of our energy. So, you know, again, knowing ourself and knowing Reiki can give us a more realistic perspective on what our actual capacity to give is on a given day. And then once we know that, right, that's the first step, knowing it, but then what, how are we going to actually address that when we do have this deep impulse to give and to share and to be of service, right? Well, that brings us right back to where Bronwyn started us. Right. That foundational precept just for today. I'm compassionate to myself and to others is how it's phrased, right? So having that compassion for ourselves first is the first instruction. It's the foundational instruction in the precepts. is to hold compassion for ourself. And that includes compassion for our capacity to be with another person, to have compassion, to be with the pain and the passions of others. We have to first be able to be with that for ourselves. And then this idea of harmony that you brought through with Se He Kyi, being able to harmonize all of the different elements of our life that draw on our attention and draw on our capacity and what we actually have able to give. And when I started practicing Reiki from that perspective and really beginning and shifting that mindset that this isn't, A modality that is intended to be a healing modality wherein we are healing other people as the primary function, but that this is a self reflective and self generating practice for connecting more deeply with ourself and the web of life, um, for being more resourced and more whole, and then expanding that outward to other people. Um, then it became much more easy to recognize. the level of, um, the level of medicine that I had, that I have available on any given day to share with other people. Um, and to make clear choices about About that, because there are times when it is appropriate to give a lot, maybe more than what, you know, what we normally would. Right. There's times when it's like we do set other people's needs or a situation's needs ahead of our own, but that should be the exception, not the rule. You know, that should be an exceptional moment, um, when we can make that kind of choice. And when that does happen, you know, like Carrie, when you, Needed to teach and be there and be present for your, your students, even though you were sick, right? Giving yourself a little bit of extra attention and time and recovery on the front and back end of that is really important. And that's something that it can be really easy to forget to do because life demands a lot from us. And so being compassionate to ourselves, first and foremost, is not selfish. It's not selfish. It's necessary to actually make our lives function and to really show up for the people that we want to show up for as our full self and our resourced self. So yeah, that comes, that's what comes up for me. It comes up for you, Carrie. Oh, I love all that you're sharing. I'm like soaking it in, soaking it in. Um, and yeah, like McKenna was mentioning, you know, last weekend I taught a Reiki class and I've been so excited about this Reiki class and put so much time and energy into it. Um. If you know, if you've taught Reiki courses before, you know how sometimes so, how challenging it is to like set aside the time. You know, for a weekend together to train together. And, um, and I know that my clients had, you know, or my students had done that. They had set up this time and sometimes it was like a very fierce boundary for them, like they had to like block that time off for themselves and for their healing. And so I woke up the morning of my training and I had a tickle in my throat and it just perpetuated training. And I had this is like awful tickle cough thing going on through the whole training. Oh, that was rough. And it was hard because I also had put so much time and effort into the training and of course wanted to hold so much space for everyone. And, uh, yet there was that, that physical limitation. My body literally told me like, I'm probably giving too much here. Um, and so I had to take a lot of time like Michaela, you were talking about on the back end to really look again at my motives and, um, luckily, I don't think anybody got sick from it. And so it's just, you know, it's 1 of those things where I actually had to give myself a lot more space than I normally would to not be completely healthy and present and, um, uh, for my students in the way I wanted to. Um, but you know, inside of all those triggers, you know, I think, uh, some of the things that you guys have said is really resonant for me is, is, um, for ourselves and for myself, it's just when I'm feeling like I want to give to somebody or really feel compassion and compelled to help somebody, you know, a asking, do they even want? My help or need my help, you know, because I think sometimes, you know, people, um, especially in the world of Reiki, there's been many of times where I would absolutely love to help somebody, but it's, it's not reciprocal. Their door isn't open to me and you know, for whatever reason they, you know, I have to respect the other, you know, I'm not for everyone, right. And, um, so if, if the door is open and somebody is seeking help, and I have that particular type of help that they really need, and I've really come to trust that, you know, I've come to trust that, you know, my clients and people that surround me, the people I get to serve in my practice are there for a reason, that I have something for them, and that, Um, to explain it on a more energetic level, like we're in the same vibe, like we're vibing together. And, um, as I work with somebody, we are, uh, kind of sharing this conscious space together, whether we're in session or not. And especially if I'm doing some work with people ongoing, that I know that we're just like allowing our relationship and the practice of Reiki to shift and accommodate their needs and also my needs through that time. So, um, That's something that I've learned to trust and be really awake to, and to also notice while I'm kind of in the process of maybe, um, you know, stepping into that role for somebody and they're kind of sussing me out and trying to figure out if I'm the right person for them, if I'm the right teacher or, um, um, somebody who can support them in their healing in any given moment, you know, there's that, there's this emotional vulnerability that's happening. And I think for all of us is, uh, when we do give at McKinley, I think you really nailed it as just being aware of what we want to receive when we give. And so when we're, we might be in the midst of overgiving, it's just sitting with ourselves and asking ourselves really, what do we want to receive? And yeah, I mean, on the surface level, it might be money. Might be, uh, yes, be feeling liked or, um, understood by somebody else. And all of these things are pretty strong motivators, but sometimes even. When, um, somebody pays you good money for your time, you know, still there can be that emotional vulnerability there. And so I think that is a practice of really standing in our own strength and power, um, and um. A willingness to be ourselves, you know, and not bend to everybody in the space and everybody in the room or not try so hard to be something that somebody else wants to have or wants in their life or, um, and I got to tell you, I've really struggled with that. I mean, as a yoga teacher, I feel like there's so many times where I feel a lot of, um, heaviness around like, Being that person that like somebody just didn't get my vibe and was like, that person's not for me for whatever reason and really a strong repelling away from something that I put my whole heart and soul into and I put years of my time and, and so that rejection that can happen. Uh, it can, it can hurt, you know, it can go really deep for me and so sitting with that and being with that and um, in, in those moments of feeling like rejected, but still a willingness to show up and be who I am and not dull myself down, not try to, um, Just run around in circles, trying to make everybody happy. Um, I've really had to, I've learned how to do that. And I'm not saying that I'm very good at it, because still, like, I, the other day, I subbed a class for a friend. And, um, it's always happened. She has like 20 people who come to her class, and I was Subbing for her so like maybe seven people showed up most people like don't regularly come to her class And some of them were just brand new people in the room and I had this task of kind of reaching somebody who normally goes to another yoga teacher and I felt like, you know, there's so many times where I feel like, Oh, I'm really connecting to this student, but I'm not connecting to that student. And, and I don't know if that is actually really happening, but it is like happening inside of my own inner space. Right? And so the more I can feel somebody like pushing me away, the more I'm like, wanting to accommodate them, wanting to make them more comfortable. And, um. Yeah, I just can't do that. You know, you just have to do you have to be yourself and um, Uh, you know, but it's just it's it's not an easy life lesson. I don't know for me. It's not so i'm still working on that But i'm still learning how what you know listening and sitting inside of what do I want or expect from? The people i'm trying to serve, you know How am I showing up and how am I going beyond my own boundaries and capacities to give so? um You know, and that can be a really interesting thing to explore. Um, because also, okay. I was thinking the other day, somebody was saying, Oh, like, have you, um, have you seen these Reiki courses out there where you spend hundreds of dollars to learn Reiki, Reiki, something that's free. Why are you have to spend money to learn something that's free? Right. And I was just like, Oh, this is why I overgive because, because people have these, um, Expectations sometimes also of women, that women just should show up and give everything that they have to give without, you know, receiving anything, um, for that exchange. And, um, so that attitude always really rubs me the wrong way. Um, and so, um. You know, I feel like a lot of times in Reiki, I've actually had to give more than I ever received because the, the standards within Reiki are to give so much and to be compensated so little. So, so many people out there are giving so many free sessions, very, um, underpaying themselves in sessions, uh, people are offering Reiki trainings for 100 and they're giving like 10 hours of their time to lead those trainings. So, I do feel like as a community, uh, of Reiki practitioners and people who love Reiki, it's good to explore this question and good to explore how, how we're taking care of the people who are taking care of us. And, um, and so if you find that somebody is over giving to you, maybe even just saying that saying, Hey, you're giving too much of your time and energy. I want to respect your boundaries. And, um, I bet if you actually shared that with somebody who's over giving to you, that would probably be very meaningful to them. Yeah. Yeah. That whole last bit there, Carrie, I've sort of forgotten about that with the giving too much and it's, it's so important. And maybe we could just clear up why you actually pay for a Reiki class. I mean, really, isn't it? You know, I mean, let's make that clear. Why would you pay for a Reiki class? Well, why would you pay to learn anything? Right. And, uh, it's because you're paying for your teacher's time. And the fact that they went and trained. Um, the space, the timing, everything is, is something that you're paying for. Um, it is a system that you're learning and, uh, hopefully the teacher that you're learning from has also paid and put time into learning, right? And if not. Um, maybe, uh, you need to have a look at who you're going to, for example, you know, I know that you can like buy a Reiki course for 15 on eBay or whatever. I don't even know where, but somewhere online. Right. You know, I mean, uh, is that something of value? I would say not really. To be honest, I mean, I just can't see where you're going to get, uh, good training, uh, confidence, um, a reliable teacher, someone who's going to support you, these are things as we go through. And I know I've learned from my own experiences of going to teachers and learning from teachers, you know, not just within the system of Reiki, but also within the system of Reiki, you know, the, the good and the bad points. You want a teacher who's going to. He's going to be there for you. He's actually going to teach you something of value. And, uh, the system of Reiki has a lot of value in that as. You know, I think when we first started this podcast, uh, you know, in my mind, um, I, I didn't know how long it would go for none of us, you know, I don't think we thought how long would it go for, or, you know, would we have enough to talk about or whatever. Right. But as we go, we just discover more and more and more things to talk about. And I love that because. There is a great deal of depth within this practice. And it's something that I hope that people realize and don't treat it like some sort of like 15, um, thing that you'd get online. So there is a lot of depth there. There's a lot of things that you can learn and they actually help you live a, um, the system is there to help you live a great, uh, engaged life, thoughtful life, being, becoming aware of who you are and what you're doing. So that's why you pay for Reiki classes. And, uh, you know, I teach, um, business classes for Reiki practitioners and teachers, and, you know, they'll often say to me, Oh, you know, how much should I charge? It's like one of the first questions, because there is exactly what Carrie was saying. There's this sort of, you know, there are people giving away stuff and, uh, you know, if you're a professional, that sort of becomes impossible because you can't just. You can't do that. Yeah. And, uh, you can't actually run a business if you're giving everything away. How do you pay for your, um, your business license or whatever it is that you need to do, you know, your website, your, the time for, um, promoting yourself so that people can find you. How do you pay for that? So it needs to be paid for. And that's just a part of living in this. Society in this day and age. So, um, yes, there are lots of important aspects there. And, uh, the thing about being a woman, you know, I always say, if I look at, um, subscribers like to my newsletter, you know, 75 to 80 percent of them are women. Yeah. And that was the same when I was with the international house of Reiki. So that hasn't changed. And, uh, it means that the majority of practitioners out there. are women and women in our society. Yes, we're told to be the martyrs, you know, um, to, to give, you know, my mother always told me that when I would serve dessert, I always gave myself the, you know, the funny looking bit of dessert, you know, the cake that, that, that was broken or whatever. I didn't care. I didn't mind. But that's because that's what she did. And that's what I learned to do, you know, and it's like not. Actually, um, and look, I'm, I'm fine with that, not to say that that's a bad thing, but what I'm saying is that martyr mother, yeah, that martyr female. And we can take that to the point of always giving to others and not actually looking at what we're receiving. And both of you guys today spoke about what. Are we receiving? And I think even in thinking about this subject, I didn't think about that. And I just think how much that reflects on me and my life and my beautiful mother. And, uh, you know, just that whole thing of, of being that, you know, the martyr and just wanting to, to give, but not to think about what am I actually getting out of this? And, uh, in that there was something else. Um. I think Carrie, what you were saying about the yoga classes, you know, that's just really what you said is really, um, Uh, how do I say that? It's very raw and real, what you're saying about how you feel about the yoga classes. And I get that completely and I think a lot of Reiki practitioners have that with treatments or even in a class, you know, you want everyone to be, I, you know, I so much want everyone to be happy and to love it. And if they don't, you know, you go away and you think, Oh, you know, was I successful with what I did, you know, but we can't make everybody happy because you don't make anybody happy. They make themselves happy. Yep. And, uh, I, I see that with treatments, you know, that whole thing that when we go to do a treatment on someone, we, that, that if we are not strong in ourselves, if we're not confident in what we're doing and why we're doing it and how we're doing it, then when we do a treatment, we can find ourselves in that same inharmonious unbalanced space and we can start really feeling. Um, that we are not, uh, we're not, um, maybe not worthy, not doing, not doing, um, as well as we could for this person, are we doing enough, you know? And yet once again, that's not what this is about. It is about us being strong when we do a treatment and us being there. With that person vibing, if you like in that space with that person, and then it's also up to them to be open to that we can't make other people do anything in this world. And so what, you know, thinking about. Us and how we do things, uh, is, is probably the, the best that we can do is to find that harmony within ourselves and then allow others to be in that space and choose whatever they choose in those moments. Um, I also thought about consent and, uh, which sort of came into. What you guys were talking about, I think maybe Michaela, you know, that, um, that it's okay to say to people, are you okay? Um, but we shouldn't put ourselves onto people and, uh, you know, you might be a Reiki practitioner. It doesn't mean you've got to put your hands on everybody and, and, uh, really thinking about what other people, um, listening to other people and responding to that. And letting that teach you about what is or isn't too much. So not what you think is the right thing to do, but also listening to others and, and responding to that. Yeah, I think that's such a important piece. So, you know, as you were, um, both of you were speaking to that point, I was just thinking of a recent exchange with my cousin who, who lost his father recently. And, um. Um, you know, is, is in a lot of, a lot of, a lot of pain and is going through a lot of difficulties and, you know, my, my instinct was to offer him a Reiki session and I was like, Hey, I'll come up there, you know, I can do a session for you. And his response was like, what is Reiki? And, um, like, I don't know what it is you're, you're, you're just saying to me right now. And, you know, I kind of explained a little bit and he was kind of like, you know, like it wasn't resonating. It was clearly. Not like, certainly, you know, if I went and visited and I was like, Hey, let me do this, he would probably be like, sure, cousin, whatever, but it like, it wasn't the thing that like he needed to be offered, right? Like he needed to be offered something different. So, you know, I offered him my ear and, you know, I knew that just spending time together and like. extending the offer even was meaningful that I wanted to help him. And of course, you know, again, back to shifting our mindset about what really is the purpose of Reiki. It's not to lay our hands on people. It's to be more of our full resourced abundant self in their presence. Um, well in our own presence first, and then in the presence of our community. And so I can, I can do that with him without having to go through having a session that. Um, so yeah, I think that's a really important piece and then a piece around, you know, giving our time and talents with Reiki for free, and whether that's an expectation that gets imposed on us from others, or one that we take on for unhealthy purposes, there are, of course, also, I want to acknowledge many, many, many reasons and many contexts where it's very appropriate to offer, you know, You know, for free. There are many people who want to just be able to offer Reiki as they wish without it being attached to financial concerns at all. Totally fine, right? In fact, the majority of the people who come to me as students are primarily interested in Reiki for self practice and then to practice with friends and family. Um, and that's totally fine. Right. So we're not here to say like everybody who does Reiki for other people has to be charging money. But what we are saying is that if a person chooses that that is our professional path, and that is how we want to meet the needs of our family, that the giving and receiving, the reciprocation, the exchange of energy needs to be proportionate to what is actually going to be abundant and sustaining for us, as well as to those that we're That we're serving and that that can be different. You know, again, that's going to be different for everybody, right? Their financial needs their time, whether or not they're splitting that time with other work is going to be very different. And, you know, in my personal experience, you know, when I came to Ricky and decided that I wanted to. You know, incorporate this as part of my work. I was already working a full time job at university and the person who helped me develop my classes and who's my co teacher. He was at the time still working for the state of California. He was at the tail end of a 40 year career and we had very different relationships to this idea. Of, of work and Reiki and whether or not they should be intertwined. For him, his experience had been working full time in government, you know, being the breadwinner of his family. Um, you know, and when you're working a high level state job, you're working well over, over 40 hours a week. And he, you know, had been practicing martial arts since he was a child and he taught martial arts for a long time. And for him, that was a passion project. That was, that was his form of service. That's what he wanted to give. He didn't want money for that. You know, he didn't need it. He had, you know, he, he had, and he's a very high energy extroverted person. So he had enough energy to work 56 hours a week and teach martial arts on the weekends for next to nothing. I worked really well for him. It felt really good, right? I am a very low energy introverted person, working a full time job at a university with students and administrators and all of the things and trying to serve people in this very intimate You know, way, um, at the same time was absolutely incompatible for me. Um, I couldn't divide my attention, uh, divide my energy. So I knew that I needed to pick, like, I need, you know, in terms of my primary job, I needed to focus on one or the other. I still sometimes do consulting in university context, but you know, I needed to. And I very much wanted to center my work in Reiki, which meant I had to get paid. And this was something that was a point of contention between us for a while, right? Because from his perspective, you work a regular job, and then you have your passion project. And you, you, you know, you're of service, you do things like martial arts, like Reiki. You know, whatever these things are, um, as your, your form of service to your community. And it was a really valuable experience for both of us to kind of talk through and work through that and really come to the perspective that both paths are completely valid as long as they are correct for the person walking it. Because I absolutely was going to give way too much of myself if I tried to maintain both. sides of it, even if I was doing Reiki, like, you know, not for money, like not intensively, but also working this other job. Um, I just, for my level of energy and the slowness that I need to work and the introversion, like it was not going to work. Like I had to create a lifestyle where I was focusing on this work and I had a lot of spaciousness around my sessions and classes to Recuperate my energy right to be in my own personal practice so that I could be as fully available to my students and clients as I could be. And so, you know, again, back to self knowledge and really understanding, um, how our energy works, what we need to feel resourced and well, what our motivations are for giving in whatever way we are giving and are those things. In alignment with the precepts, right? I mentioned before my original impulse to Over give of myself came from fear, right? I was absolutely Allowing fear to dictate a lot of my behavior Um, and I didn't know it. Like that wasn't conscious. It was something that You know, had to come to me over time. Um, I wasn't being Compassionate to myself and therefore I wasn't being fully compassionate to other people because I wasn't In Healthy form of reciprocation. Um, I wasn't harmonizing the elements of my life, um, in a way that worked well and that, you know, caused me to have things like resentment, right, which aligns with anger. It caused me to have a hard time being grateful for this amazing practice that I got to have. I had a, it made me have a hard time being diligent in how I practiced my. full time job and my Reiki and my interactions with my family, right? And so, you know, coming into alignment with the precepts and practicing Reiki from those perspectives has really helped me to sort through all of that and, you know, come to a place of respecting my own limits, which are great. I have many limits. And what I can give and the way in which I can do it. Um, and all of us have our own version of that, right? Whatever those limits are. And for those who feel abundant capacity to give, then do that, right? As long as that feels like that's coming from your authentic capacity and your authentic self. Um, and for those who want to be able to offer Reiki with no money attached, Again, if that is supportive of your lifestyle and it's something that you can maintain without being stressed, then, then that's a beautiful thing. And for those of you who want to dedicate yourself to learning and to growing and to continuing your own education so that you can provide excellent service to others. And that means that you're going to need to make this your job and receive compensation for it. Then goodness knows those of us here on this panel are here for that path. Um, and it's a worthy path and it's a really difficult one. Um, and it's one that, you know, I know all of us here are continuing to try to refine in our own lives. It's not quite there for me yet. Um, but. You know, I feel like my north star is really solid, um, because we have this structure that helps guide how we think about how and what we give. Well, I love all of those things and just maybe a few final thoughts to sit with. I feel like, um, you know, what I've learned in my own over giving is that sometimes there's some trauma around receiving as well. And just really being open to receive and, um, why I can't receive, um, that might have a lot to do with, um, you know, being in touch and, uh, with my own needs and really being okay with, um, needing, you know, needing. needing people, needing clients, um, needing support from other people, not just me always supporting others. And so, um, it can be sometimes uncomfortable I think in my life to receive. And so I'm learning more and more where that's coming from and trying to release it. So if anyone else out there is struggling with that, We um, send you our love and compassion and hopefully some of this dialogue has been really useful for you I hope that you feel open and safe to receive receive all that you need and more because One of the wonderful things that I, I, uh, lean into and trust and know so deeply about the practices of Reiki is that the universe has our back and that, um, whenever we really need something, it will come through for us and that we just need to be open. And, um, also great to create strong boundaries. I had this client recently and I was like, Oh, you know i'll help you and i'll give you this discounted rate and we'll do this and it all ended up with carrie way over giving her time and then this client was like no i want to pay you your regular rate and then when i spent an extra hour with her on this issue she was like i am very happy to pay you for your extra time that you gave me because it was very valuable for her and so kudos to those kinds of people and to those kinds of clients those are the ones that really really get Uh, the value of what you share and, um, One more thing to mention is that, uh, of course we put a value on our time and, um, that it takes to, to give other people Reiki sessions and to train other people in Reiki and all of that, but you know, Reiki itself is invaluable, just absolutely priceless. And so, um. We, we can assign a value to something that is so meaningful, so valuable, so important that can dramatically shift the course and direction of people's lives for the better. And so to hold our practice of Reiki in high esteem and high worth, and, um, and I think that that's something that we'll really support anybody who struggles with boundaries, struggles with overgiving. And then sitting more powerfully in yourself and your own gifts and yourself worth trusting your gifts. Um, so we love you all. Thanks again so much for listening to this episode of the Reiki Women podcast. You can give to us by, uh, donating to our, our crowdsource thing. So we have a little thing, you can be a patron. Of our podcast for as little as three dollars a month. Give us a little donation for our time. We would so appreciate that Uh, you can join the embodying reiki community on facebook It's a little facebook group that we curate to have deeper conversations around the podcast and to have more community around this podcast and we'd love it if you could share this podcast on to somebody else that you think Could use this conversation. So feel free to send it on, like, comment, all of those things. Um, they might be small, um, but they do give back to us and our time. So we just so appreciate it. And I'm sending you so much peace, love, abundance, and all that you give. So until our next conversation, have a great day. Bye.