Where Did Reiki Come From? with Reiki Women Podcast

In this episode of the Reiki Women podcast, Carrie Varela, Bronwen Logan and Michaela Daystar delve into the esoteric origins of Reiki. They discuss Reiki's roots in Japan, its development by Mikao Usui, and the evolution of the system of Reiki. 

The conversation expands into the philosophical and spiritual realms, exploring the concept of Reiki as both a system of healing and a universal spiritual energy. They share personal insights and stories, linking Reiki to broader themes of light, consciousness, and interconnectedness with the universe. The episode touches on scientific theories, mythological concepts, and the practical applications of Reiki principles in daily life.

00:00 Welcome to the Reiki Women Podcast
00:29 Exploring the Origins of Reiki
01:20 The Japanese Roots and Evolution of Reiki
06:02 Reiki's Spiritual Energy: Beyond the Physical
07:24 Personal Reflections on Reiki's Essence and Practice
16:49 The Interplay of Science, Spirituality, and Reiki
47:34 Concluding Thoughts and Invitations for Reflection

Additional Resources:
- Join our Facebook Group: Embodying Reiki
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- Subscribe to our YouTube channel
 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz6Jk8QD_8hjlfpSM8suMIA

Bronwen Logan: https://ReikiwithBronwen.com
Carrie Varela: https://www.reikihealingsociety.com
Michaela Daystar: https://www.heartscapesinsight.com/

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Transcript

0:08

and welcome to the Reiki Women podcast. My name is Keri Varela. I am the founder of the Reiki Healing Society. And today I have my beautiful colleagues with us for an excellent discussion. So I've got Bronwen Logan with Reiki with Bronwen, and we've got Michaela DeStar of Heartscapes Reiki. And today we want to kind of go off into the mystic and explore an esoteric, um, topic, um, and that the topic is, where does Reiki come from? And I think we're going to touch on it from a couple different angles, but I'd love to leave it with both of you, gorgeous Reiki goddess. Goddesses, as you've pondered and gone into the mystic and tried to unpack where this beautiful spiritual energy comes from, where, where, where has your mind taken you? What, what, what conclusions have you made? We forgot to decide who was going first. Okay. Um, so where does it come from? Well, it comes from Japan, which I think probably most people will acknowledge these days, even if they do different things with it, they still will acknowledge that the, uh, origins of the system are Japanese. And we can see that so clearly in. I think every aspect of the system. Um, we can go into that in more detail today, uh, if we, if we want. Um, so we know that it comes from Japan. Um, it was, uh, a man called Mikau Usui who was born in 1865. He was born into a samurai family and he, uh, then, um, brought this, he, practice on himself, doing different things. And eventually he started to teach other people, uh, the techniques that he was studying for himself and learning for himself. So, and then from that evolved, uh, a very practical system called the system of Reiki. And, uh, there is an association in Japan that still exists today, the Usui Reiki Reoho Gakkai. And the Gakkai is, uh, uh, an association that was begun either with Makao Usui or just after Makao Usui, uh, uh, once he died. And, uh, yeah, it's interesting to note that there's probably different aspects to the system as with anything, when we develop things, we, um, we develop them. So we begin with something, we create a bit of this, create a bit of that, add this, do this, and. Um, you know, the, the system that has, uh, come out today, we can look back into those aspects and see where those elements have come from. And as I said, they are all, are all Japanese in origin and very much, uh, I think, uh, uh, an element of their times, so the early 1900s. If we think of the early 1900s as far as the Reiki precepts go, so they're like the cornerstone of the system, then the precepts are very much a, uh, were How people considered themselves, uh, that they should live in their lives. That's, that's sort of what that has come out of. And I can see those precepts, uh, mirrored in so many different ways from practices at that time. So other martial arts practices, for example, or spiritual practices that people, you know, believed in compassion, people believed in, uh, not being angry and understanding more about their bodies. uh, energetically, not to worry that that was going to cause illness in the body, uh, to, to feel gratitude and, and care for others and, uh, to do what we're doing with a very clear, pure, um, mind and heart. So, uh, These ideas really sit in the Japanese psyche from that time and we can also see other elements of the system have come from further back into the Japanese culture, like the Reiju has the initiation process. We can see where that comes from going back into other practices. Um, hands on healing was incredibly popular in the early 1900s in Japan. Uh, And yet we can see across the world that that has been something that has been practiced at different times, but in Japan at that time, it was very popular. Um, the symbols and mantras all come from Japan. Some of them are just plain old Kanji. So Japanese writing. So, I mean, they have to be Japanese. There's sort of no way around that, you know? Uh, so we can see, as I said, in, in many ways, uh, the practices do definitely come from Japan, from Mikao Usui. And he would have. develop things, which means that he may not have, um, created them exactly, but that he has been influenced from different areas in his life and brought those things together to create. This system, which he felt probably worked for a multitude of people. And he said that so, uh, that, you know, he felt that it was available to anyone. It didn't have to do with whether someone was religious or old or young or disabled or whatever it might be, but that there was anyone could, could actually, uh, work with this system. So, So that's that, but I guess my thoughts were, and this is something that I thought would be quite interesting is, you know, so we have the word Reiki, uh, so we have the system of Reiki, which are these different elements that I was just talking about, but then we have Reiki. So Reiki, spiritual energy. uh, big energy, you know, if we look up Ray, big energy. So it's like the energy that's just of everything. And, uh, I like that correlation between big and spiritual because it's, it's saying that it's something that is possibly bigger than us, if you like, that we're within that. And, uh, I'd love to know what you guys think about that. You know, like, where does, where does that come from? And, and I guess it comes back to, maybe it's, it's of course, how do we answer, you know, how did the world begin? But, um, you know, there are some beautiful ideas about where, where it might've come from or how these things develop or even our ideas about them and how that's then correlating to the system of Reiki. Just an easy one there. Go for it. Someone, Michaela. No big deal. How did the universe begin? You know, origin of all things, you know, light topic for the day. Um, I really appreciate that context setting that you just shared Bronwen, and, you know, and, and. You know, that we always reiterate this distinction between Reiki as a phenomenon, spiritual energy, phenomenon of the world that's been observed, you know, by many, many peoples over time, many, many cultures in different ways described. In different ways with some interesting similarities. And then the system of Reiki, right? A system of practice that humans developed to try to make sense of what they're observing about this phenomenon and to put it into a form that might be, um, you know, be able to be understood, be able to pass on, you know, be able to describe to other people, direct experiences that people have had. and to be able to codify that in a way that, you know, again, it's transferable from person to person. And it's, you know, it's interesting when you pose this question, like, you know, where does Reiki come from as a phenomenon? I find myself not particularly curious about the answer to that question. That's a weird statement. I'm almost embarrassed to make that statement. I think it, maybe it's not so much a lack of curiosity, but kind of like a, Maybe this is maybe this is more a desire to retain the mystery of that. What is more interesting to me, or perhaps more, um, you're not interesting, but more available to me to contemplate is more this question of where do systems of practice like this come from? Um, yes, Reiki. And we have some good historical data about where this system of practice came from and what the foundations of that system was in terms of esoteric Buddhism and Shinto and, you know, practices that had been in existence for a very long time in Japan. Um, and then the way that those practices got distilled into more regional. Um, you know, systems of practice, experimental systems of practice, particularly in the Meiji era when Usui lived. Um, but, you know, thinking back to, like, the origin of systems of practice that help people to investigate the question that you posed, where does it come from? Right? What does it mean? What, what is our relationship to it? The big it, the big energy, the big, you know, mystery, the big something that we can't quite understand. Um, and how do those systems come to be inside of human culture? This is a question that I sit with a lot and I, um, uh, you know, imagine a lot and then observe in present day, the way in which somebody, maybe myself, maybe somebody else will have an experience, some kind of art form, Experience that they can't quite explain or that they've never experienced before, or that has opened up something in them that they weren't aware of, or that had felt unlocked, or that had felt locked up before. And, and then there's this effort to kind of grab that experience out of the ether and, and put words to it, put descriptions to it, and then figure out some way of duplicating that experience in some way. Right? So practices, actions, contemplations. ideas that one can work with to try to invoke that experience again. It makes me curious how many times people have had some sort of profound experience, undescribable experience, and have been completely unable to put it into any kind of form that could be transmitted to anybody else, right? How many times has that happened in the history of humanity? Probably quite a few. But then we have these moments. Right. In human history, when there is a observable experience, perhaps it's repeated, you know, from people, um, asking the same questions of themselves and each other, or maybe it is an individual's person's experience, and they look are able to kind of put a container around that experience and describe it in a way that is accessible and figure out pathways to have that experience again, or at least to touch the pathway to that experience and then share that, teach that with other people. And I feel like that phenomenon is probably the more rare. I don't know, right? This is just, I'm, I'm curious about it. Like, again, the, the, the distinction between the, how many times a person has had, uh, an unexplainable experience with the mystery versus how many times have they been able to put a container around that experience and share it with other people. Um, these are the questions that make me really curious. And when I think about, um, Experiences like that in my own life and kind of what, you know, what would be the origin of that so often it comes back to moments of really observing what is actually happening in the natural world around us, you know, what are the things that just kind of happen in the cycles of life that are miraculous? when we really pay attention to them and when we actually feel them alive in our own self, right? I mean, I can, I can remember an experience as a child of like really observing the particular grove of trees and the way that the light entered that grove of trees in a particular way that I'd never noticed before. And having this profound feeling of interconnection, it was the first experience I've ever had in my conscious mind of like having an embodied. feeling of being connected to the life around me. Um, and I didn't have words for it at the time. I didn't have religious or spiritual context for it at the time. I was raised by atheists. We didn't do anything overtly spiritual or religious. I didn't have words for it. I just had this direct experience that felt mystical and unexplainable. And, um, It's, you know, it's one of my most clear early childhood memories that I, that I cherish and, you know, people have those moments and then create ways of sharing them with each other. Um, and then, you know, the other side of that is observations of what it takes to actually live a happy and good life, right? So bringing it to the, you know, there's these powerful esoteric experiences that can feel connected. or maybe distinct from just what does it take to live a happy life? And within the system of Reiki, we see that question very clearly posed and we see an answer to that question in the precepts, right? What does it take, right? The secret of inviting happiness into our life is what the prelude to the precept says. And then what do we see in those five precepts? We see States of mind. We see states of the heart feelings, and we see actions, you know, actions that we would take as a result of those mindsets and those states of the heart, and that's very practical, right? Like, that's, that's a, it's a very practical list in a certain sense. But then when you say, how do I actually live that in my life? Okay, now we need to recruit some support from the unseen spaces. And so then we get practices that are dipping into mysterious places and that are dipping into resources that are not necessarily perceptible by our regular senses. We see a relationship forming and a, a, a reaching out into that big energy, that bigger, uh, That bigger realm, that web of life that is beyond our individual body as a way of enacting something that is very down to earth. That's very practical. That's very much absolutely about our day to day life, how to live a happy life in the time that we have, right? How to, how to actually cultivate a mindset. Of being unattached to fear and anger, right? A mindset of gratitude, uh, a heart orientation towards compassion, right? Actions that allow us to be true to ourself and to be compassionate towards other people. How do we do those very practical and yet challenging things in our day to day? We partner with this big energy, right? With this Reiki, this, this force that's beyond our, normal perception that can help us to live into something that feels so hard and so difficult. And I think that's one of the things that feels really precious to me about the system of Reiki is that it is on the one hand so practical. It's so much about our day to day experience and our, our life and the choices we make, right? The simple things and the complex things, but the day to day, and it is so much about being in deep relationship with the mystery. And letting those things actually inform each other and walk hand to hand in our life. So, that is, that is not an answer to the question of where does Reiki as a phenomenon come from. But it's where my mind goes when I think about, you know, why is it and how is it that humans over and over and over again create these systems of practice that help us to answer these questions. And, and so often come to such similar answers. That's also really, really fascinating to me. So that's where my mind goes. Where does your mind go, Carrie? Oh, well, I'm bouncing back from an edge of the universe back here, um, on our podcast. But, um, so many wonderful things. And thank you all so much for sharing your points of view and perspectives and experiences. Um, You know, uh, I love that distinction, the system of Reiki and the spiritual energy of Reiki, that phenomenon that is Reiki, and when we can think of it that way, you know, we can see some universality or some commonalities between the system of Reiki and other forms of energy healing, or, um, you know, from my background with yoga, there's a lot of similarities between Reiki and yoga as well, when you really look at it, um, from its deeper philosophical roots. Um, and I guess I'd like to temper this whole conversation with, I, when I went to Japan last year and was on Mount Kurama with, um, Yakuten Enomoto and, um, Bruce Taylor and our group that was there pilgriming to the, the origins of Reiki. One of the things that, uh, Yakuten talked with us about is. That it's all connected, right? That everything is connected. And so, and because of that, we can look at Mount Karama and say that there is a special reason why Reiki came from that land and came from that space, and that we shouldn't neglect where it came from, because it is deeply connected back to the origins of the practice. You might see that commonly talked about within metaphysical communities. It's all, it's all interconnected. And, um, but I think we've forgotten that that actually comes from Buddhism and, uh, that Buddhist perspective on the, that interconnection. And, um, so that was one thing that really struck me. And so it gave me a sense of appreciation, uh, for, you know, the cosmology that's presented on Mount Karama. In addition to how that's also reflected in the system of Reiki and And we can't say that, like, you know, the founder of Reiki was perfectly practicing what, you know, they're talking about on Mount Krama. Um, but you do see that it is reflected, and I think that, um, you know, to look back to the origins of Reiki, we have to sometimes hold complexity around, There's a lot of different threads that brought Reiki together and we can never really go back into the founder of Reiki, his, his, um, to relive his life and his own unique experiences that came together in order for him to create the system of Reiki. And to share with the world this whole, you know, system of energy healing, um, that was accessible to everyone. Um, but nevertheless, you know, um, I've come to really appreciate, you know, the cosmology that's on Mount Kara as kind of part of that deeper mystery. And that certainly a thread that, um, undoubtedly informed the practice. Um, and so from Aama, they have this, um, notion that there's this. It's deity called Mawson and Mawson came from Venus 6. 5 million years ago and he descended to the earth on Mount Karama and Because his descent was so powerful He like smashed this rock and so there's a temple on Mount Karama dedicated to this deity. This, uh, buddhist concept And it's said to, you know, that he is dwelling in that, um, temple inside of that temple, like his actual physical presence and that as Malson brought, um, his spiritual energy onto the earth, he brought in and was like a placeholder for all mankind. Um, and so maybe we believe in that or maybe we don't, but, uh, on our tour, we kind of geeked out about, um, that Bruce Taylor has a background in, um, astronomy and he said that there's valid, you know, evolutionary theories that say that because Venus is, uh, uh, Uh, further away from the sun, like 6. 5 million years ago, the Venus was actually in the place of the earth in like the rotation around our sun. And so this potentially that there could have been like a drift of, of, um, that of like bacteria or just even some life form that somehow migrated from Venus to the earth. And then it's really from that. Simple seed that, you know, life could have come about, studied it a little bit from my background in science as well. You know, the big bang happened 14 billion years ago. And that initial explosion of the Big Bang is actually keep is keep going. Uh, that hasn't stopped. So the universe is infinitely expanding in all directions. Um, and people who studied the origins of life, you know, they say, like, the origins of life could have happened, uh, well, more than likely happened in, in the ocean. So potentially like an asteroid came to the earth and brought like a bacteria and then from that bacteria, you know, all life and death. Everything came together. There's also theories out there that say that in the oceans that, like, there's all of the components of life are kind of in that sea. Um, and maybe an electrical charge or something came together and that brought, you know, everything together. into place and created a simple cell. And then from that simple cell life continues has evolved into being what we are today. Um, so some things to geek about, you know, I don't, I don't know the answers, uh, but sometimes, you know, deep in my meditations, I saw, I stopped thinking about life as something that comes from somewhere else. I've really started to think and respect that the earth. is the placeholder of life. And I don't particularly really believe in star seeds or that we're all like, you know, extraterrestrial planet traveling all to different worlds, like in our sleep or, you know, in other lifetimes, like, I think that life is just evolving on earth and that we've reached this state of evolution to be where we are right now and that we're, you know, Uh, really in the heart of this life, um, that's possible on this planet. And, um, so for me, deep in meditation, sometimes I think that when I'm connecting to Reiki, what I'm really connecting to is the soul of the earth. And that soul of the earth, that life of the earth, that, that home that we're all dwelling on, like we are all a part of that continuous evolution. And so I don't think of it as something like coming out from all these different directions. I think of it as just this organic, um, expansion of life. Um, and, um. You know, and I don't know if I'm, I'm right or not, you know, I don't know, but, um, when I think about like mystical things like unicorns and my kids like have so much of those, that stuff, dragons and things like that. And I think that that's beautiful. And, and, you know, But I'm also reminded that there is unicorns on earth and they're called horses and they're just as magical as like, you know, anything with a horn or like there's rhinoceros, um, because that's how flipping incredible, uh, life is and the diversity that we have of life, um, on this planet. And it's, it's something that I really try to not take for granted. Um, But, um, I guess another thing is going back to, um, you know, when we have a really strong sensation of energy. Um, so this weekend I had a chance to connect with some of, um, my Reiki community and we did a Reiki share and I put myself in the mix to get, receive Reikis. It's been a little while since I've, um, received hands on healing from somebody else. And, um, It was just so awesome to do it and I don't, I don't know what it is, just put your hands around my ears or put your hands on my shoulders and I'm just like melting over here because it feels so good. And, um, you know, that, that, that feeling of energy moving through my body, like I had this sense like, wow, like this is something that I am very familiar with because I've been on this path of Reiki for a long time. you know, over a decade and a half, but there's still this awe and this mystery around what is this? Like, what is, what am I connecting to? Why is this feeling moving through me? And, um, the best way I've been able to answer that question comes from yoga. And, um, so in yoga, like some of the inner philosophy that I think is really interwoven with Reiki is this whole notion of prakriti and purusha. And Prakriti, I might be getting this wrong. I think Purusha is just consciousness, and Prakriti is the material physical world. And so, the idea of like, consciousness and the physical material world coming together, that is life. That is the essence of each and every one of us, and we see that also within Reiki. Re being the spirit, the spiritual energy, the spirit energy. This is something that we can't really describe, but the key is that aliveness and that Reiki is that coming together, those two things seemingly, um, separate things coming together as one. Um, and so in yoga, uh, another way of saying that is Shiva and Shakti. Shiva being consciousness, Shakti being this aliveness. And so, um, there's a question that often Or some people pose is like, how does, um, the ocean know it's the ocean and it's through the waves, right? So like all of us are in this sea of consciousness and it's the waves that are shakti or this aliveness and it's the waves that are reminding us that we're alive, right? And we're reminding us of movement because in our day to day living, it can be easy to kind of lose sight that, you know, uh, bigger things are happening than us. We might get like really, um, stuck in our small self, but the spiritual practice of Reiki is like the wave. And so when we feel that energy sensation moving through us, it's reminding us that we are alive. It's reminding us of the movement, um, of the universe, that spark, that energy. Um, so that's, those are some of the things that I think about when I think about, uh, where Reiki comes from. Hmm. Ah, that's a very beautiful conversation. Thank you. both such beautiful thoughts. Um, I'll go back, but just to where you were Michaela before, um, as a child. And I know Carrie, you've spoken about you having those moments of deep connection as a child as well. And I just remember, you know, lying on my bed and seeing the, the sunlight beams coming in and how beautiful it was. profound it was and not needing to know where it came from, you know, where that feeling came from, but just being in that feeling. And, uh, I think that's both of you sort of have spoken to that. And it's very beautiful. What interests me as well is that it's about light and, uh, there's something about light if we're looking at the this idea of origins or, you know, this, um, Light coming from dark, you know, we use the word enlightenment, uh, meaning that we coming to that place, maybe Michaela that you're talking about this place that we're wanting to, this happiness, this place that we want to be, um, that we, You know, that we work at ourselves for, and, uh, it's as if we're going from a place of dark to a place of light. And I know that, that they need to exist with each other. But if we look into the system of Reiki and we think about, uh, the cosmic Buddha who, you know, is representative of, um. Shimpudin, um, Dicomio symbol, um, and mantra, you know, um, Dainichi Nyorai is the cosmic Buddha. And, you know, uh, Dainichi is all about shining that light into the dark. And once again, it's light. We keep coming back to this light thing within the system of Reiki. And I know when I first studied Um, and you know, I was sort of like, Oh, what's, and I was trying to find out about the Japanese stuff. And there was sort of like all this Western stuff and people are always used to sign light and love. Right. And maybe they still do. I don't know, but you know, and I was like, Oh my God, that's so Western, you know, like we've just, but then one day I had this profound sort of feeling like, Oh my goodness, it's about light and it's about love. And I, and I really felt that. felt it rather than it just being a signature to just sign off with, you know, and, uh, yeah, that thing of light and how lightness, you know, what does light represent to us? Light is, is representative of so many things. And I think it links in with this, with Reiki as a, and I'm talking about Reiki as a spiritual energy. And it is this, you know, like illuminating Well, for one, illuminating the things that aren't so great and allowing us to, to work on those things. Um, I don't know, you know, what else does your light, light do for us? What do you guys reckon? You know, what does light do? Well, it helps us to see the darkness. Yeah, as you were saying, the two of them being in relationship with each other, that's that, that, that like deep fertility, like that fecundity of the earth that is, that is dark and rich and womb like and cocoon like, and, you know, mysterious. And then you have this. This revelation, you know, as you were saying, Carrie, you know, like the waves, like the, that animation of the movement of the waves, you know, kind of brings awareness to that, that deep, uh, nourishing presence of the ocean, right? So it's like, I'm, I feel the way that they are in relationship to each other in a way that makes each of them. Revealed in a certain sense, right? Which is only really important within our consciousness, within our perception, um, but maybe not. Maybe it has an importance quite beyond and irrelevant to human perception, right? I, I try to be aware of the times when we kind of make everything about us, right? The whole point of it is so that we can perceive it. Yeah, probably not actually. Anyway, that's what comes up for me. Yeah. And I think also healing and balance, you know, this whole thing of like light, um, is giving us, uh, the opportunity to heal, to, to see, I guess it's just further on from what you're sort of saying already, but it gives us the opportunity to, to see those, those places and then heal and find that balance within ourselves and possibly within the world. I don't know. I don't know. What do you reckon, Carrie? Yeah, so, light. Well, you know, um, as I'm thinking about it from my science background, you know, light is one of the core components of life being possible on Earth. Not only just the, the warmth of the sunlight, uh, you know, being a huge factor, being able to, you know, have that warmth that the ocean is giving us. is liquid form, not frozen. Those, those are all like key characteristics of like planets that have the possibility to house life, but like, um, that the light striking the surface of the, of the earth, um, not just on the ocean, but also on the land is like, It's a key component to plant, plant life and then plant life break apart rocks and create soil and then, you know, so there's just all, all of these incredible connections of, of light to life. You know, as it relates to Reiki, uh, you know, on Mount Kurama, the, the three diamonds are very clearly represented over and over and over again. And they're represented through, uh, spiritual deities. So Malson representing the first diamond, but what he's really, um, the energy that he personifies is power, is, is power and that, that is the body, you know, our body is the power to move through life. To, to make changes, to, um, build skyscrapers, to conserve, um, you know, natural resources, all those things, right? But the heart is this embodiment of love and it is this space so we can connect to love. And then the, uh, the. Um, second diamond in the head is related to light and there's all of this, you know, uh, deeper, uh, mysticism around each of those three things. But, That is that, you know, cosmology, Mount Krama is, is this connection to the sun, uh, the earth, and then that Venus connection is the, is the love connection. So, I think it really points us in a direction of that, these three things, you know, they're so foundational, fundamental. And, um, when you think about them in healing spaces too, it's like, Well, you know, when we're tapping into Reiki, you know, one of the things that we're tapping into is our own capacity to make positive change, our, our, our power to, you know, face the challenges in our life and, you know, decipher our own unique path through those challenges. Some of the things that we're connecting with in Reiki is, is to feel more loved and, and to use the power of light to help us illuminate our inner world. You know, just like, you know, in the darkness and night, you know, our own inner world is kind of shrouded in the shadow. And when we do, um, go embark on a journey to understanding ourselves, better. It is like turning on that light bulb inside of ourselves, really trying to find that light. Um, I mean, if I'm just thinking of light, uh, you know, daikonmyo is great light, bright, right. And, you know, it is related to, as I was saying, the cosmic Buddha. And, um, It's this thing about shining light. And if we look at the the kanji, so great is a big person. You know how like we were saying like reiki is spiritual energy, but it can also mean big energy. And that's almost like that, that, um, the die. Yeah, so it's big. and it's, it's, it's bigger than us. Yeah. This big thing. Um, and yet we are working with it. So it's this big human. And then, so it's great light. So the second Kanji is light. And what do we see as that? What, what is that an image of the actual, uh, uh, image of the Kanji is of an altar and the altar is the burning altar. off. So that's the light. And that's what you were saying as well, Michaela, just with that, you know, shining the light into the dark and, and what do we, you know, what does it do? Um, it starts to, we start to see things, yeah? Um, so it's burning off all those things that we don't need anymore. And, um, that's what the light is for. And then the third one is bright, which I always love so much because Mio, because Mio is the sun and the moon. And I was just thinking, Carrie, before when you were talking about, I always love puzzling things together, and you were talking about in yoga, uh, the consciousness and, uh, you know, being conscious and, and then this, the aliveness. And, uh, With Mio, we talk about truth and wisdom, and I was wondering whether there's some, some, something in that, that, that relates to those two elements and, uh, you know, wisdom being I don't know, is that the, is that the aliveness? Is that the, because that's the working through things and then the truth being pure consciousness? Uh, I don't know, you know, so that's sort of nice to see as well. But there's another thing about Mio that, um, recently I was looking at and it was that, uh, so we have the sun and the moon, so the sun's rays is the light, yeah, so it's shining. at us and we feel that in the whole world and that was beautiful Carrie you're talking about what it does to our world you know this light and um, uh, but if we looked at the old um, kanji for sun it was actually meaning the moon shining through the window And, uh, and the picture looks like a little window with curtains. And so it's actually shining in and out. And that is, uh, And then what happens when it shines in at us, yeah. So that's when things start to burn away and we start to become this more easily a part of this bigger person, this, this die. And, uh, yeah, I don't know. There's, there's so much you can, you can feel and intuit. Um, which brings me to one more thing before I stop. And that is mythology. I think that. It's true, there's a thing that we don't know, and we, I don't know how we can know, and do we really want to know? Yes, so, um, mythology gives us something to, um, I don't know, it gives possibly us some purpose and somewhere to go as well, because it gives us a story that we can live into and, and, and work into. But I think mythology is something that's really beautiful and within the system of Reiki, we have connections to lots of different types of mythologies, especially Japanese mythology. So, uh, that's a really beautiful place to, to find out more about where we come from, where the system comes from. Yeah, I love that you bring up mythology and I love Carrie, the, the kind of, um, you know, really beautiful tour that you took us through, you know, from both the scientific and a mythological perspective, right? And it's, it's one of the, my greatest, like, points of curiosity and of joy to look at these places where, you know, Where again, humans will have some sort of profound experience or insight or observation made through careful interaction with the world that that brings about a particular mythology or metaphor or understanding of how it all began and what it all is and what is the big light. And then somewhere down the line, there's scientific discoveries that show us an answer to how that could actually be true. And the Big Bang is such a powerful experience of that, an example of that, you know, because if we look at, you know, what is said to have happened in the Big Bang, which, of course, is not The definitive be all end all like absolute truth of how the universe began, but it's, it's a, it's a pretty solid working theory as far as what we can determine scientifically at this point. Um, you know, but we have this, this concentration of, of all things into a, a single tiny point. And then at some point we have this. Explosion this bang where all the all all that is everything begins to expand rapidly from that point and begins to be revealed and begins to become spacious and begins to to move and be dynamic and and shift and everything impacting everything else on and on and on and on and on and that and that that expansion and and that dynacism is continuing to happen and then we look at, you know, we look at Josh and Kokyuho. Right? What do we see in the imagery of that foundational meditation? We see imagining this tiny pinprick of life that is central inside of ourself, that is the all of the all of who we are, you know, in this tiny, clear, luminous, Pinprick of light and then we imagine that expanding in all directions and filling us and surrounding us and connecting us to everything around and in this dynamic relationship and we see a similar gesture in things like the medicine Buddha meditation where. We embody this particular aspect of the Buddha and then we imagine ourselves growing to the edges of the universe and then expanding at the same rate as the universe. We see this imagery, you know, we even see it in Christianity, you know, God said, let there be light and then there was light. And then he said, let there be the planets and there was the planets and then more and more and on and on and on until we get to life. And then life continues to expand and grow. And so we see this same. You know, kind of concept that there was a beginning, there was a spark, you know, there was a word, there was a sound, there was a, there was a vibration, there was a, a mystery. Right? And then there was everything. And that everything is continuing to grow and expand all the time. And we are a part of it. Um, we're not the point of it, but we're a part of it. Right. Um, I just, I just. Love that. We can see, you know, not that we need, you know, proof or scientific confirmation, but in a sense, you know, what I think what I love so much about it is that it points to our intuitive capacity to know things beyond our ability to know them scientifically in the moment. Right. Why do we see that particular image happening over and over and over again? I bet it's all over in in other mythologies and other. Uh, cultural representations of how life began, you know, why did that particular imagery and gesture show up over and over again? Somehow, maybe, possibly, there was an intuitive knowing that that is in fact how it began, right? Before we had the instruments to measure, you know, how it began. The expansion of the universe in terms of what's happening out there in space, you know, and so, you know, there's this enormity to that. That is overwhelming to the mind. And so then, you know, I bring it back to to earth right into to all of the miraculous things that we can directly observe and be a part of here on on earth. You know, I am a. I'm a highly terrestrial person. I am, I am not interested in life on other planets. I am not interested in bacteria coming to earth from an asteroid from another planet. I'm interested in like, you know, how did it begin here? And, and what can we observe about it? here in, in our daily life. Uh, somebody asked me the other day how I would describe my spirituality. And without even thinking about it, what came out of my mouth is my spirituality is composting. It's, it's like deep, reverent engagement with the cycle of death and life. and the way that we are all a part of it and we can't escape it and that it is perpetual and that you know all of the material that we need for life to to exist forever is present and always has been present and it was present in that spark of life that was there before the big bang. And, um, yeah, I don't know. I just, I always like, I'll go, you know, start to kind of go to these, these places and it's like, okay, but right here on earth in this patch of soil, that's in my hand, where's the miracle here. And it's just, there's so much miracle. There's so much Reiki right there in that handful of soil that I just, I so rarely find myself needing to contemplate it existing anywhere else. Maybe that's just me. Um, but yeah, these, these inquiries really. You know, a simple question like where does Reiki come from that Bronwen posed, uh, earlier today, you know, can really open up some interesting and, and delightful and inspiring, uh, contemplations that really, you know, don't end because the question is so big. Hmm. Carrie? Oh, I love, I love all of this. You know, this is, these are the kinds of conversations that make me feel so alive and inspired. And both of you so inspire me and I would love to hear from our listeners what they think about this topic. Where did Reiki come from? Where does Reiki come from? And, uh, just that whole notion of just shining your bright light, like, uh, you know, there's a relationship back to yoga, like the earliest texts of yoga talk about Vyana, which is that radiance of the sun. And that, uh, when I went to India, actually, uh, one of the person, people I met there said, the light of the soul is the light of 16 suns. And. So that just whole notion of just shining so bright. And I think of the people that founder of Reiki, us, like so many of my heroes who united with that light and they show right. And they lived their life in a way that was, um, uncompromisingly connected to that truth. And they, they illuminated the whole world. They changed the whole world and, uh, people I know who are famous did that. People I know who are just, um, near and dear to my life who did that for me, you know, on my spiritual journey. And so, I think one of the deepest, most profound blessings of being on a spiritual path and sharing that spiritual path with others is that we get to, to be that for each other. And just, you're listening to this point, just don't deny, don't doubt the power of your light. When it's united with that bigger picture, when it's united with, the truth and wisdom and that you get to shine so bright. And so I feel super grateful to be with these bright lights, um, Bronwen and Michaela, and so many of you who've come into my life through this podcast. So share with us more about where you think Reiki came from, your own experience. Um, you know, pondering the deep mysteries of life and, um, you know, feel free to subscribe to our podcast. We just ran over 400 subscribers. So thank you all so much for being with us. on YouTube and all of the other places. And please feel free to share this episode on to somebody who you think would enjoy it and get a lot out of it. So we can't wait to, um, have more wonderful, poignant conversations with you all. Feel, uh, and we look forward to talking with you again next time. All right. Love you. Bye.