Moms, Mental Health & Reiki with Reiki Women Podcast

In this episode of the Reiki Women Podcast, hosts Bronwen Logan, Carrie Varela, and Michaela Daystar discuss the complexities of motherhood, particularly through the lens of mental health. 
They share personal experiences and challenges faced during different stages of being a mother, from dealing with postpartum depression to navigating the pressures and joys of raising children. 
The discussion emphasizes the importance of self-care, seeking support, and the role of Reiki in finding balance and healing. 
Special attention is given to the unique societal pressures on mothers and the need for a supportive community that includes mental health resources and other healing modalities. 
The conversation aims to offer insights, solidarity, and encouragement to mothers navigating their own mental health journeys.

00:00 Welcome to Reiki Women Podcast: Introductions and Motherhood
00:27 Exploring Motherhood and Mental Health
02:12 Personal Stories of Motherhood and Mental Health Challenges
07:11 The Role of Reiki in Navigating Motherhood
10:12 Reflections on Parenting, Mental Health, and Self-Care
18:50 The Impact of Motherhood on Personal Growth and Mental Health
26:45 Support Systems and the Importance of Self-Care for Mothers
37:55 Reiki's Role in Supporting Mental Health and Parenting
47:10 Closing Thoughts and Mother's Day Reflections

Additional Resources:
- Join our Facebook Group: Embodying Reiki
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1564135767437136
- Subscribe to our YouTube channel
 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz6Jk8QD_8hjlfpSM8suMIA

Bronwen Logan: https://ReikiwithBronwen.com
Carrie Varela: https://www.reikihealingsociety.com
Michaela Daystar: https://www.heartscapesinsight.com/

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Transcript

0:07

Hello and welcome to Reiki Women Podcast. I'm Bronwen Logan from Reiki with Bronwen and my two co hosts, uh, as always, uh, Carrie Varela. Hey Carrie! From, uh, the Reiki Healing Society and Michaela Daystar from Heartscapes Reiki. So, uh, today we're going to, um, have a little look, uh, a little bit of a chat about something that we all have in common, or us three, and, uh, that is motherhood because we've got Mother's Day coming up and, uh, we thought we'd have a look at motherhood from a bit of a, a different perspective. And, uh, so we're going to look at it from the angle of mental health. So how. I don't know. We're going to find out more in a minute. But before we begin, I do have a little quote that I found that I thought might be relevant. And it's a little Japanese saying, and it says, Sitting in the morning and searching for the way. Now, the reason why I chose this is because I found it very evocative and the idea of just in the morning is a perfect time to sit and do our practice. And it's really like setting us up for each moment of our day. But if you're a mum, I found when I was a mum, it's really difficult to find that, those moments, especially in the morning. So looking at that quote, I would be like, how on earth am I meant to do that? And uh, so how do you find the time to actually get in, find the time? Time for you, practice time, uh, ways of feeling balanced. Uh, I'm going to hand it to Carrie cause she's got the youngest kid here, all youngest kids here. And, uh, how, how do you manage Carrie? And, and what happens if you don't? And I dunno, what advice would you give us? Well, I love this combination of the topic mental health and motherhood because I think it's something that Well, I'm really proud of us to speak to it And I'm really proud of so many women's communities being willing to speak to Motherhood and mental health because I think it's for a long time Too long. Probably it's not been, um, a topic that most women even discuss or even have the capacity to say and talk about how hard it is. And I, um, I was, uh, had my mother came out for a visit recently and, um, we had the weekend together and it was just so lovely to have her here. And I've moved away from her, uh, about four years ago. And so having that quality time with her was just so meaningful. And, um, You know, she talked to me about raising her four kids and how in her, um, you know, in this kind of third generation of being a grandmother, how much my mom really, uh, didn't get very much help as a mother and how much she wanted to step in and help me and help, um, my, my sisters and my brother with Parenthood and just in the day to day or like, so my parents, like different times in my journey through motherhood helped me so much. They helped me with free childcare. They helped me with advice. They've helped me with, um, You know, financially as well. And, um, I, my mom talked to me about how much she wanted to do that because nobody was there for her and she raised four kids. She was a stay at home mom. Uh, her whole life was devoted to raising us. Uh, as children and, um, you know, before you're a certain age, like you can't even say thank you, but like there is so much that goes into, um, giving to your children, you know, conceiving them, being pregnant, birthing them all the way till when they can start speaking and even expressing gratitude back to you. I mean, there's just this whole journey inside of that, that period of time in motherhood. But I was thinking back on my mom's generation, how it was just assumed, like. You do all the parenting, you juggle it all, you make no money, you, you know, and, and nobody gets to come in and help you, and, uh, you know, maybe there was, I'm sure that my mom was supported in different ways and stuff like that, but I know mentally, it was a struggle for her, and she went through different struggles, um, in her journey as motherhood, and now, of course, being a mother myself, I can see, oh my gosh, I've gone through my own tons of struggles, um, You know, not, not just mentally, financially and, and, and energetically too, because there's so much giving that's happening in those early years of motherhood. And, um, and it's, it's, I guess for me, what the real struggle with it is it's time consuming and it's not sporadic, so, or it's not, you know, You know, on necessarily a good routine and I'm not very good at routines anyways, and probably because I'm not a neurotypical person, but like waking up early to meditate never really worked for me, you know, finding little pockets in the day sure worked for me, but some days I couldn't find those little pockets. And then once I had two kids, My kid's nap schedules never aligned. And so literally it was like from the moment I woke up to the moment I went to bed at night or put everybody to bed at night, and I was always the last one to bed. And usually the first one up, it was just like my feet hit the ground and I was running the whole time, running, running, running. And it was incredibly depleting. Mentally, it was incredibly challenging because there's a lot of unmet needs in my life that I, I wasn't receiving, you know, not only was I not receiving that emotional support and just, um, you know, support from, um, to be able to take time off, um, and to take a steps away, but also. Yeah, like my financial needs weren't met. There was a lot of dynamics in my partnership, and there's a lot, um, like a lot of relationships have really detrimental dynamics in those first couple years of motherhood because it's so stressful. Psychologists know this. There's like, you know, whole books related to helping parents at that particular stage. But I know for in my family, it just like Babies crying is like nails on a chalkboard times 20 for my husband and he just couldn't handle it, you know so I'd have to be the one to step in and handle it and Soothe and calm and calm, not only a baby, but a husband and my own nervous system, right? And it was not easy, but I, I'm so grateful that I had the practice of, of Reiki because those were the things that I got to do before I put my feet on the ground. And before I went to bed at night, it was just holding my hands over my body and Uh, being able to, like, release all, all of that stress and all of that nervous system agitation that can arrive when you're, you know, just trying to hassle, you know, manage an 18 month old or a two year old, like, and I still see it today when I see families with children that age and like two year old could like run off into the street at any given time. So you're like hyper alert all the time, like, you know, and your kids are just, you know, you have to keep your eyes on them. There's no dull moment and so that can lead to a lot of agitation in our, um, our nervous system, our subtle body, our energetic body. So Reiki was that thing that really helped me calm down and um, And those moments that I did have a time to escape and recharge. Reiki was on the agenda. That's like all I really wanted to do. Um, and yoga helps as well. But, um, that, you know, that was kind of my, my challenge in the earlier years. And now my kids are five and six. And I'm a little bit in the honeymoon stage now of, of motherhood in the sense that And, um, I'm not, you know, doing 99%, uh, 99. 9 percent of the diapering. And, um, you know, I can tell them to clean up after themselves and, and honestly, truly, my kids are just wonderful. So sweet and they like tell me they love me every day. I'm like, they'll just look at me mom I love you and my daughter particular. She's like mom. You're my best friend forever. We like our best Yeah, I love you the most All of us so I have this like, you know perma BFF F F F and two of them and they're just the greatest kids and so of course all of that struggle was well worth it. Um, and now in this five and six year old stage, I do have a little bit more freedom to step away from them. And, um, and then recently I invested in getting, uh, uh, at a home, uh, exercise bike, which was, uh, So helpful because, um, haven't been doing this as much, but now I'm starting to wake up earlier and like get some exercise in before the day begins because a lot of times that's the only time I have to exercise if I'm going to try to get it in and, uh, that's been really helpful too. So there's a lot to speak about that, but, um, those are the things that really arose for me. In terms of mental health and motherhood. Yeah. Whoo. Yeah. I, um, I appreciate the, you know, the coincidence or the serendipity of these two topics, you know, here in the U S it's mental health awareness month and next weekend is mother's day. Um, and so, you know, and I appreciate the acknowledgement that both of you gave that this is not necessarily a topic that, you know, there's been a lot of space for it to The mental health implications of parenting. Um, and, you know, there's a lot of reasons for that. I mean, I think certainly the idea that a parent, particularly a mother would feel any kind of negative way about their parenting experience, you know, is, is something that is hard for people to hear and to grapple with. Um, but there's a way in which we don't allow our full humanity if we can't acknowledge that the hardest, most intense job that we have is. It's hard and intense sometimes, um, and that it can take a toll on, on our mental health in a variety of ways and in different ways, depending on the season of life that we're in, you know, Carrie, you're just speaking to that, you know, very first season with young children and then kind of going into, I love you call the honeymoon phase of kids kind of developing a little bit more of their independence. Um, you know, when I think about my experience of kind of the convergence of. Parenting, mental health and Reiki, um, you know, I, I started practicing Reiki, started learning the system, um, in its Western form when my kids were, were older than yours, my, well, my youngest daughter was three and my older daughter was, um, about 15 and, um, Both my older daughter and myself were in a season of life that was probably the most challenging as far as our mental health for a variety of reasons, you know, having to do with, you know, family dynamics and just things that were going on. Both of us were really struggling. Um, and she was struggling tremendously with her mental health and, uh, that was impacting my struggle, right? With mental health, because I'm witnessing what she's going through. And for quite some time, it was like, All I wanted to do was just fix it for her. And, you know, I spent so much energy. Like banging myself against what she was going through and and trying to fix it, which was, of course, just making it worse because I'm trying to force her to do things that I think she should be doing for her mental health. And, you know, one of the things that I had to really come to terms with and that. Reiki certainly became the place that I rested in this, but the first place that I really started to grapple with it was in Codependence Anonymous. I think I've talked about that before on the podcast, but spending time, you know, really looking at the ways in which I Um, needed to fix other people, you know, especially the closest people in my life so that I could feel fundamentally okay and mentally well, um, and that that was an imbalance in me. And that acknowledgement was so important because it became the, the way in which I could step on the path to even accepting Reiki in my life. Um, as a pathway of self development, even so I have definitely also mentioned other podcasts that for a time I really did look at Reiki as a vehicle for fixing everybody else so that I could feel okay, right? If I have Reiki, I can make other people feel better so that I can feel better. So that was a journey of, of, you know, coming to terms with the fact that my, my own mental health was. about my relationship with my well being and my choices and, you know, my responsibility, uh, to be in good relationship with my life and that the other people around me weren't responsible for that. And I was spending so much of my energy trying to make other people okay instead of working on me being okay. And, you know, certainly my kid and my ex husband were the, the people who I was most focused on trying to make better. Um, and so there was a real like evolution of my relationship with Reiki around those topics. Um, and when I really came to terms with the fact that my mental well being was about my relationship with me. It wasn't about what other people were going through. Um, it really helped to like take my foot off the gas of that ceaseless exhausting effort of trying to fix them. And what, you know, happened was I started really tending to my own mental health and understanding my own self and my own reactions and taking responsibility for. Things that I, you know, responses that I had had in the past habitually that were not healthy and not benefiting my family. And the, the, the way that that took pressure off my kid, because I wasn't solely focused on her problems. was notable and immediate. And that in and of itself was a huge lesson. And so when I really started taking Reiki and other practices into my life as, you know, active forms of, you know, working with my own mental health, um, I made that really transparent to her. You know, I kind of, I was like, okay, I am, I am not succeeding. And influencing her to do anything about, about what she's going through. But maybe I can show her the way that I'm influencing myself and just let that be a subtle, transparent, I don't know, something different, like something different had to be done. Um, and I, it was interesting to me and maybe you all have had an experience like this. It was, it was fascinating to me how vulnerable that felt. To like say to my kid, wow, I'm really struggling right now. I need to take a minute to go calm myself down. Or, you know, I'm really, um, having a hard time. I'm going to, you know, take a break or in the midst of an argument, you know, timeout, I need to do some practice right now. You know, I need to do to do some EFT tapping, or I need to do some meditation. I need to do some Reiki in the middle of whatever conflict we were having. Um, At the gas station or wherever we were to make that transparent to do that kind of self response like self soothing response in front of her and to tell her what I was doing and why, but not to tell her to do it, but to just show her that I was tending to my own responsibility. It was incredibly vulnerable and. embarrassing in some ways, um, but ultimately much more effective than what I had been doing because the pressure came off of her. I was spending less energy on futile things and I was actually doing things that were finally impacting my own sense of anxiety, my own depression, my own You know, fearful thoughts and so on and slowly, you know, that made, made a big difference for all of us. Um, and, you know, ultimately let her make her own decisions about how she was going to kind of do the same and she's in a, she's in a good place now. This was 10 years ago. Um, but so the, the kind of the, the convergence, as I said, between parenting, my, my own mental health experiences, that of my family and my experience with Reiki have really. You know, they've been, they've been together the whole time for me, um, and they continue to right. And so it's, it's not a surprise to me then that, um, working with it, having an awareness of mental health, um, really thinking about the role of the Reiki practitioner in mental health treatment, in, uh, the experience of, you know, You know, making communities that are more well in that area is something that's always been really important to me, uh, in my practice. And I think I will pause there, because I'd love to know what comes up for you, Bronwen, when you think about this convergence of Reiki. Mental health and parenting? Yeah. Well, just listening to what you both said, uh, um, most immediately, um, I did hear something recently where they were saying that, uh, just someone was saying something on TV or something, but it was about, uh, that what you want is for your child to be, what do you want for your child ultimately? Right, as a mum, what do you want for your child? And you want your child to be able to exist without you, which is a really heartbreaking thought. and how do we do that? So, you know, I think that a lot of, you know, what, what you've been saying sort of looks at that, and it's about allowing that person to accept that that child is, is, is, is a person. Yes, you're a, you're a parent, but And, and you need to be there as a parent, but, and you need to be, I think, as you said, Michaela, most importantly, a role model, yeah. And like Michaela, like carry your mom, you know, also, I think, you know, great role model, um, to, to help you get strength and, but teach you how to find your own strength and, you know, that's really, I, I think our role as a parent. We can't live their lives, so we need to give them the tools. Or show them the tools that they can use in their life, uh, for when we're no longer around. And, uh, even if we are around, we want them as adults to be able to fully live their lives without having to, um, feel that, you know, they can't do anything without their parents. They, they, you know, it's lovely to be needed. It's lovely to have your child ring up and say, you know, what's the recipe for the. scums again, or whatever it is, right. But on the other hand, yes, you want them to be able to live this full, happy. existence. And, uh, so that can be heartbreaking too, for us as parents, you know, that we need to be able to, um, take steps back and to, to know that we cannot live their lives. And really what we're doing is if we're trying to live their lives for them, we're We're putting our energy into their lives and taking away from our own existence. And the more that we fully live our existence, then of course, that is just going to reverberate out towards them and their lives. Um, I do remember when, when you're talking about Carrie, when you're talking about babies and, you know, how incredibly difficult it can be, I remember having a little baby, my baby, and, um, and just sort of thinking, Oh my God, is what am I doing? You know, this is just, just, unbelievable. And I had no idea what I was doing. And I remember someone saying to me, Oh, just wait till they're a teenager. And I thought that was the most thoughtless thing that someone could have said to me, because in that moment, all we have is that moment in our experience. And in that moment, in my experience, I was overwhelmed. Yeah. And to, um, you know, yes, I'm sure there, there's definitely been overwhelming moments as when my child was a teenager too, but you know, the support that we can give each other as well and recognize that and recognize the space that people are in and, and find ways that we can, I think once again, the system of Reiki does Give us these guidelines, you know, for today only and just sit in this moment and, and know that this is just this moment and that it will pass and then there is another moment and something different will happen. And I know that's really hard when you've got such immediate experiences with, um, especially with young children. But, but knowing that and, uh, uh, I think is important and yes, that we help each other and support each other in, in, in really. um, helpful ways I think is very important. So to be aware of the stresses that someone might be going through and to know that, um, uh, you know, to find ways that we can be there for them too. And I, I love that idea of different seasons of motherhood. You know, you're always a mother till the day you die. If you started as a mother, I'm not sure about, I don't have the experience of not having a child. And I think today. I recognize that there are a lot of women not having children, which is sort of fascinating. And to live life without a child, without going through those stages in your life is, is a different type of life. And, uh, I can't really speak to that. I don't know. Um, uh, yeah, I'm not sure because I find for me, uh, as a mom that, uh, having a child has been just Constant learning. And it's also given me insight into my mother and, um, the mental health of my mother, I think, you know, and I know when, um, I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but when I first, when I first had my child and I was in the hospital, um, my mother disappeared off the scene. And I was like, what the hell, where's my mom? And I didn't really know anybody in Sydney. We'd just sort of come back to Sydney and we were living here. And, you know, I knew like one person or something apart from my husband. And it was like, Oh, I'm here in hospital with this baby and I'm all alone and I don't know what I'm doing and, you know, it was quite frightening. And then, and then my mum rocked up at one point and, um, I was a bit like, what happened? And she said, well, when you had your baby, it reminded me. of when I had you. And when I had you, your father wasn't around. My dad was, my dad had, my dad had a lot of mental health issues. So, uh, you know, your father wasn't there. And she started to tell me all the stressful, horrific experiences that she had when I was just a tiny baby, just first born and how alone she was and, and how by being there with me, in, you know, it was just too much and she couldn't cope with it. So, yeah. And so, you know, it gave me insight into my mum and the experiences that she would never have told me about, you know. Um, and, uh, hopefully it gave her the opportunity to Look at that and maybe find some healing in that as well, you know, um, because I didn't have that experience in that sense, right? You know, so, um, I had, you know, a lovely experience having a newborn and so, you know, maybe supporting my mom in that way as well. I love all that you guys have shared. And I just think, you know. Mothers are amazing and, um, amazing to see that. I think we have like, we're like in three different stages to motherhood. That's just really interesting. And I think there's a lot of wisdom to share what Michaela shared and what Bronwen shared at just that, that moment where your kid, you know, needs to be self sufficient on their own. Like my kids are not there yet. And it's a whole journey, but that's. Right. We want them to be able to, uh, live their life. And, and, um, I think that that's one of those overwhelming things that I really realized as a mom, I would have never realized that if I didn't become a mom, but as parents, like you really do have the responsibility to teach somebody everything. I mean, maybe not everything, but like, so now that my kids go to school, I'm like, God, great. I'm so grateful that somebody else is helping them, like, learn their letters and, um, because, you know, up until that point, like, I, I, I, I struggled with, um, my own childhood trauma that mostly occurred, you know, Up until I was, well, until I was in eighth grade, predominantly, but there's childhood trauma throughout it, but motherhood invited me to confront a lot of that. And, um, you know, some of the struggles around, like, even helping my kid learn how to speak. Um, I really. Realized that I didn't have a whole lot of skills in that area at all, and, uh, one of the blessings I had in motherhood is that my son, um, is autistic and has, uh, you know, had some struggles with speech and, and other things. And so, um, he got a lot of therapy. Um, and working with therapists who are just so talented and gifted at working with kids, um, especially, you know, earlier years, I learned like a whole new way to parent. And I just, I just didn't have those skills before. And so, um, you know, Even when in life where we feel unsupported, like there is that support that came, you know, to me, not through like the best of circumstances, of course, I'd love for my kid to be totally neurotypical and actually, I don't think I want that. I think that it's better for him to be who he is. And in that process, I got to learn so much and learn so much more about myself, too. And, um, and, and, and learn from my kids as well, because when they're in those moments of just, like, frustrated that they don't have the toy that they want or, um, right now it's a lot of, like, body policing. My kids are, like, just wanting to wrestle with each other all the time. I'm, I'm learning and relearning those things. Periods of time in my life and a lot of like the trauma and emotions that I really got stuck with me because, um, you know, my parents didn't know how to parent that. They, you know, used different methods that were really painful for me and I, you know, kind of was left and inherited. So much of that trauma and, and seeing it, you know, um, so much in the day to day with my children was, it was tough, it was tough because I had to look at that in myself and if I didn't have something like the system of Reiki, if I didn't have more support, it really starts to, um, impact you deeply mentally, you know, and, um, This year, in fact, I, like, made it a commitment to myself that I was really going to focus on my mental health, and, you know, it's like, you know, there's, like, an inner tank of how much you can give, and in those early years of motherhood, it's just so much output, so much output, and you know that you're getting depleted, and you're hopeful that you're going to be able to fill yourself up again sometime, but it's not right now, so you get to you know, fill it up with like hugs and oxytocin from, you know, having this connection to your kids and all those love hormones and stuff like that. But, um, you know, at a certain stage, and I'm seeing so many, uh, moms that I know and even clients of mine who are moms who are just really recommitting to themselves. and finding a spiritual practice that supports them. And, um, you know, for me it goes beyond Reiki too. I'm, you know, going through a, um, a cycle of counseling, which has been really helpful. And if you ever just need somebody to talk to about your problems, that isn't your partner, isn't your best friend, and you feel like they're sick of hearing it, but it really suggests hiring a therapist because, um, You know, it's just, it's just something that really supports you and, um, and, uh, can have, uh, really a positive ripple effect, but, um, you know, in motherhood, um, as we come towards Mother's Day, I hope moms can feel this time, uh, as an important time to nurture ourselves. And so no matter what our relationship is as mothers, and even fathers and parents, um. Is how do you step into that place where we really receive back life and from our children all that we give? What is the most meaningful thing that fills your cup? What do you want to receive in this time? And what what what makes some of that sacrifice that we have as parents worthwhile? I don't know the answer to that. I think everybody has their own unique answers. Um, I'm part of a lot of moms groups and so many moms are like, I, for Mother's Day this year, am getting a hotel room and nobody else is in my unit and I have time alone to myself and a bath. Um, so, um, that's probably not what I'm going to be doing, but I'm not sure. I'm not sure how I'd answer my own question. Yeah, that is so real. Oftentimes, and it's like, yeah, I'd like, it's not so much true anymore with my kids growing, but yeah, there was definitely a time when I'm like, yeah, what do I want for Mother's Day? Like, to not be here. That's what I would like for Mother's Day. Um, but my town does a, uh, annual, um, music festival on Mother's Day weekend. So that's always our, our Mother's Day special thing. That's nice. Um, yeah, it's a really great tradition. It's been going on for many decades. Um, But yeah, it's just, it's so poignant, you know, what, what is coming through with this, with this question? Um, I really appreciate getting to tell and to hear these, these stories of, you know, some of the, some of the challenging pieces and also the places for those challenging pieces really meet our best selves, right? Because I've been hearing kind of in all of our stories, the ways that these. You know, significant challenges in parenthood, um, have also served to, to grow us as people, um, and that being sure to have that support system, including, you know, counselors, if we need it, friends, family, and of course, um, practices. And, um, you know, if we, if we are so inclined to people that we can go to for things like Reiki sessions and, and support in that way is so important. Um, It was interesting, Bronwen, that you brought up the, the role, you know, the experience of people who, who choose not to have children or for, you know, whatever circumstances in their lives, um, don't end up having children. That can be also a source of great, great pain and dissatisfaction. It can also be a source of great satisfaction in a person's life, just depending on what, what they desire. Um, but you know, our society does need. A balance of, you know, a healthy, happy, satisfied population of people who do not have children to kind of help to, to create a more robust container for everybody who lives inside of that society. And I, and I really. I mean, I think about the people in my life who are childless by choice and have therefore had reserves and energy and capacity and interest and curiosity and the novelty of kind of coming alongside and supporting my kids and supporting me as a parent. Um, you know, there's a couple of friends in particular who are significant adults in my parents or in my kids lives. Um, and it's really hard to imagine. You know, feeling robust in my parenting over the last 25 years, had those people not been there. Um, and had they not, you know, had a genuine commitment to, uh, supporting the next generation of kids who were not. Their own kids, you know, that they birthed, um, and the way in which, you know, that both challenged and enriches them. So, you know, I also can't speak to that experience directly, but I'm just really feeling deep appreciation for the people in my life who, um, Are part of the parenting ecosystem, uh, around my kids, uh, who are not themselves parents. Um, and then, you know, the other piece that this question has me reflecting on, you know, again, is kind of, what is the role of, um, Reiki practitioners and, you know, practitioners of, of any of these, um, sorts of systems of practice that bring together, mental fitness and emotional well being and spirituality and spiritual practice. Um, it's been, you know, certainly one of the greatest. privileges of my role, my life as a Reiki practitioner to get to come alongside people, um, who are actively working through and, you know, working to grow in their relationship with their mental wellbeing, um, and to really feel out, you know, what is my role in that landscape of their, their experience. Um, I really appreciate getting to be part of that ecosystem and really Uh, knowing when to defer to, um, experts in other fields who can hold different pieces of a mental health healing journey that I can't hold as a Reiki practitioner, but so much gratitude to mental health professionals who Appreciate and acknowledge the value of their clients also having spiritual practices, embodiment practices, um, you know, practices like yoga, like Reiki, like meditation, um, like martial arts, you know, these mind, body, whole person practices that, um, Can simply do things that talk therapy can't, neither one of them replaces the other, but all of them together is such a powerful, um, again, ecosystem of support when we're working through any form of mental health, um, fitness, you know, efforts. Um, so, yeah, I'm curious for the two of you kind of what your perspective is on your role as a Reiki practitioner. in supporting clients in this particular realm, or, you know, what you might say, uh, to other Reiki practitioners who, you know, have an interest in supporting people in their, in their mental health journey. Wow. Um, um, so what I would say to someone, say it again, what's the question? Um, twofold. One, just your experience or your relationship to, um, supporting your clients in terms of mental health journeys. Um, and then, yeah, if there's something in particular you might say to a Reiki practitioner who is interested in supporting people in that way. Yeah, so, uh, well obviously referring on is the, is the key and, uh, you know, I've always done that. Always suggested, uh, to people who come that there are other practitioners of other modalities that might also be helpful and supportive. If someone wants to talk a lot, um, and really talk through what they're going through, you know, I explain that well. you know, I'm more than happy to listen, but it's, it's not, I might have basic counselling skills, but I'm not a counsellor. So, you know, um, I can refer on to other counsellors, uh, and, uh, yeah, it just depends what, what the person is, uh, appears to be requiring. And I think people are generally quite thankful that you, um, take enough interest in them and enough care to look at different ways that they can, um, further their own healing. And if I look at myself at times where I've needed great healing, uh, I have reached out to so many different people. Uh, yes, counselors, uh, but you know, just different sorts of modalities, um, you know, touch modality, but also, um, I'm just thinking, I, you know, I've done things like acupuncture or whatever it might be reflexology, you know, massage, um, and, you know, if there's obviously anything medical, a doctor, um, and, um, using everybody in my world that I can to help support me in whatever way that I might feel it at that time. So, um, yes, definitely. Uh, I I'm very open to that. I think it's a wonderful thing to be able to get people to get as much support as they can from their community, from all the different wonderful modalities that we have out there in this day and age. And, uh, Reiki is certainly one type, uh, you, for me, I always say that, like, I love a massage, right? I love massage, but Reiki, I actually love more because it just takes me deeper and I can feel the reverberations of it going through my life. Uh, for so much longer than, than, than, for example, a massage. So massage, I sort of keep needing to do in a way, but I find that Reiki can really shift and change things for me. Um, and you know, what would I tell a practitioner? Well, I guess those are the things that I would tell a practitioner who's, who's, um, wanting to work with people. Keep a list of, of the different modalities of people that you know are good. And, um, you can refer onto and. give people that support in as many ways as they need. That's really solid advice. I think, um, I had a business coach recently talk about, you know, the more people we support, the more support we need. And so it's, definitely the path of healing and, you know, Integrative medicine is, is one where we, we shouldn't feel like we have to do it all like what you were talking about, Michaela, how important it must have been for you to rework that mindset and for all of us, you know, it's such a good reminder for all of us to rework that mindset of like, Oh, no, this I, if I fix other people, then I, um, you know, I'm somehow solving or fixing myself like that is, there's a meme floating around about that, that says, that's just like, You know, it's, it's the antithesis of taking care of ourselves. Right? So like, um, you know, working and being willing and open to receiving the help we need. Um, and, um, that sometimes I'm not super comfortable with that. Sometimes I struggle with that. But, you know, when I can really open up and receive, it's so helpful. I also agree like acupuncture has been really helpful. Counseling has been really helpful. Uh, one of the other life blessings that, uh, motherhood somehow kind of aligned for me was, you know, Right after I had my daughter, I was in a car accident and, um, you know, the car accident was miserable actually, and it, uh, has left me with, like, long term pain management stuff and, um, I had a pain doctor, still have a pain doctor, something I'm not really, like, happy to have, but, um, I received a lot of support from that and, um, both my husband and I were in the car accident and as a result of that, our bodies were such a wreck that we just had to prioritize taking care of ourselves, like, so, and, um, Every, um, you know, every other week, usually we get a massage and, you know, that sounds kind of nice or something like a luxury, but it was not a luxury for us. Like, we had so much body pain and, um, still do. And so it just really allowed ourselves to, like, prioritize this as something really helpful for us. And, um, Really, I think, helped us, like, you know, step back as parents, take care of ourselves, um, and then I guess one other interesting thing that I would say, um, you know, in terms of how Reiki, um, might be able to support somebody going through a deep, um, mental health situation, I, I think back on my own postpartum stuff, and, um, I'm really grateful that I had all these other support, um, methods, um, Counseling and so forth, but I also had Reiki and I, I think that Reiki was really helpful for me with postpartum depression. Um, I remember having my son and as much as in love with him as I was that this crushing weight of motherhood sat on my shoulders at that point in time and it's something like it's a weight that I still feel when I had my daughter it was like doubled and and um some of that is is what Bronwen, you said, is this, this journey to bringing somebody and allowing them to be in the world and live their life. It's like having your heart on your sleeve. Um, but it's also developing an emotional and spiritual capacity to love somebody so deeply. And, and yet at the same time also, Be willing to let them go to fly, let them fly out the, um, the nest at some point to, um, uh, to, to worry about their health and wellbeing. And I think that's also really at the heart of my postpartum depression was just so much worry and concern. Like I love this being so much, like if anything ever happened to them, I don't know what I would do. Like, I don't know what I would do. And so Reiki helped me sit with that question. Um, and to see other parents who've gone through that, like losing a child like that to me is just, I don't know, I can't describe how painful that would be. And when I see other people going through that, I feel it myself, and that was what, Really was at the center of my own Porsche Prado stuff. It's like, how do I be resilient? Look at that fear and love beyond my fear And I really credit Reiki to help me move through that and I didn't I didn't move through it overnight But I probably still not through it, you know, because I still have to face that fear as a parent and um And, uh, and so I, I know that there were some seasons where I was really stuck in that and, and then, and then suddenly like I, I resurfaced and I was able to like, really let that go and like, just enjoy the moment and be with my children and, and let them have their childhood and not just like, You know, be in the shadows, you know, like biting my fingers, uh, and, um, that's just no way to parent and, and so I, I think I really do credit Reiki to help me do that, um, along with other things. Oh, well, yeah. Um, Michaela, did you want to say something? You're done. You're done. Well, I want to say Happy Mother's Day to you two mothers and, uh, to our mothers and to all mothers and to all, um, uh, what's the word? Help, mothers helpers. Um, you know, so, um, I just one funny little anecdote. I knew this woman who, um, her daughter used to give her flowers. This is probably a bit much guys, but used to give her flowers, you know, every day except mother's day. And the reason was is because she's like, we don't need just one day to be Mother's Day, right? Every day should be Mother's Day. So it's sort of true. Every day we should be looking after ourselves and in order to be able to be there for others. So, um, make today Mother's Day, whatever day you're listening to this and, uh, also enjoy Mother's Day, uh, itself. Yes. Lots of love from all of us and we'll see you next time. Bye.