This episode is extraordinary not just because Tareq - a young man from Gaza - has an extraordinary story to tell, but because as he tells it , one can hear each stage of his life unfiltered. He is able to express what Tareq the child felt long before his adult self understood the years' long blockade -seige- under which his city lived. And when we hear his story of when he first had to go to Jerusalem, we hear the shock of his treatment - as if it were happening to him today. Tareq more than tells his story, he relives it. And so will you.
This episode is extraordinary not just because Tareq - a young man from Gaza - has an extraordinary story to tell, but because as he tells it , one can hear each stage of his life unfiltered. He is able to express what Tareq the child felt long before his adult self understood the years' long blockade -seige- under which his city lived. And when we hear his story of when he first had to go to Jerusalem, we hear the shock of his treatment - as if it were happening to him today. Tareq more than tells his story, he relives it. And so will you.
My migrant guests on this podcast have been young people who've either had to flee their countries or are in constant danger from persecutors. Some in East Africa and Bangladesh and from Palestine, have been in refugee camps for generations, and when I hear their stories, I hear one thing they all have in common They've been driven from their homes or threatened in their homes by people with superior power who insist that their view of the world, their assumptions of their rights in the world, are not only true but are the only truth. We all have assumptions. They form the angle of entry of everything we do. But it is when, through hatred, fear, greed or sheer strangulation of information, we insist that our view of the world is the only right one, that we lose that essential part of our humanity, which is to see others as fellow human beings. Because if I insist that my rights are the only truth, or even the only truth that matters, then you, the other cannot be human. If you were human, you too would have similar rights, assumptions and emotions that I, as your fellow human being, would recognize.
Stephen Barden:And this inhumanity is contagious. The only truthers themselves are dehumanized. Their principal enemy is, of course, dehumanized. Their principal enemy is, of course, dehumanized. Those who oppose them are dehumanized, and here's the irony those who support them are not valued for their humanity but for their usefulness. And of course, it is when we combine this inhumanity, this lack of compassion, with superior power, with weapons and the instruments of terror, that the horror of slaughter is perpetrated, not just as a defense against an enemy, or even as revenge, but as an act to eradicate this inhuman other threat or not. The mass slaughter of civilians, whether in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, ukraine, sudan, myanmar or Palestine, would not have happened if the victims were seen as human.
Stephen Barden:Now here's the remarkable thing and I have no idea whether it's because I've been fortunate in my guests None of them have said to me, either privately or on record, that they want revenge against those who have made them suffer. What they do want is the restoration of that humanity of mercy and compassion, that humanity of mercy and compassion. My guest today is Tarek, a young man from Gaza who has experienced firsthand being seen as less than Until he left for a US university last year, he hadn't been able to leave the Strip. It took seven months before he was given permission to visit the US Embassy just to get his visa. He's lived through wars and siege and deprivation, but you don't have to listen too closely to hear that humanity shining through Tarek. Welcome to Migrant Odyssey. Thank you very much for being here. I'm really delighted to meet you.
Tareq:Thanks so much for the invitation and I'm really happy in this podcast too.
Stephen Barden:You were born and brought up in Gaza and what I'd really like to know from you thinking of yourself as the child then. Not looking back in retrospect, but thinking of yourself as the child. Not looking back in retrospect, but thinking of yourself as the child. What was it like for you as a child? Was it a happy childhood? What was it like? Did you have a big family? Were they close the schools? Was it crowded? Tell me something about it, just give me a flavor of it.
Tareq:Actually I have kind of a big family. I have seven brothers and five sisters and I am the youngest of the family. So it was kind of a happy childhood and we were five cousins, that we were the same age. We were all born in 1997. So we were all the same year and we all went to the same school and it was funny that we all were together all the time.
Tareq:And when I remember my childhood in the Gaza Strip, albeit the difficulties and the circumstances of Gaza, I never felt the toughness of the blockade and everything that we are talking about right now. When I was a kid, I mean, when I was a kid, all I cared about is playing and going to the streets and, you know, hanging out with other kids. So I feel that I had a happy childhood and with this big family I felt that I was always socially busy. You know, my oldest nephew is three years younger than me. So, yeah, and right now I have something around like 50 nieces and nephews. So Did you say 15 or 50? 15, five, zero, five zero, yeah, so it's quite a big family. So it was always busy. It was always, you know, kind of playing and going out and hanging out.
Stephen Barden:And was it very urban? Were there lots of high blocks of apartments and things like that? I mean, tell me something about where you lived and how you lived.
Tareq:Actually, I lived in a part of Gaza that is close to the eastern part of Gaza. Okay, and the time I was a kid, there was like more playgrounds than right now or than the time before October 7th.
Stephen Barden:Yeah, and were you aware, as a child, of Israeli soldiers, as of Israeli military did they used to come in there?
Tareq:In 2006, hamas was voted in elections and I feel at that time I was not aware of the intensity of the conflict between Hamas, fatah and Israel as an external factor. So at the time there was a split in the Gaza Strip that I was really aware of, and it was an internal Palestinian divide. And two years after that I started to realize the perils and the dangers of the Israeli occupation and how the internal Palestinian divide was a result of the occupation. When I was a kid, actually, I never confronted an Israeli soldier face to face until the moment that I was planning to visit the USA and I wanted to do a visa interview at the US consS consulate in Jerusalem, and that was in November 22. It was quite recently.
Stephen Barden:So that was the first time you saw an Israeli soldier, is that right?
Tareq:The first time I saw an Israeli soldier in person and for me, like it was not the best thing to see, especially on my first ever like experience to exit the Gaza Strip. You know what I mean. Actually, the experience on the whole was not a good experience because it took them five months of coordination to get me to visit the US embassy in Jerusalem and at the time five months it took them like to do security checks and to investigate you, who you are, and stuff like this. And I thought, like, after all of investigations and security checks and after I was granted permission to do my interview at the US consulate in Jerusalem, I was going, you know, kind of to go on my own and do the interview and get back to the Gaza Strip. But it was quite the opposite.
Tareq:At the checkpoint I was inspected and I was late, to wait for a couple of hours, and then there was a bus guarded that I had to go into and then I stopped at the US consulate in Jerusalem, I did the interview and then I got back to the bus guarded, again back to the Gaza Strip. So I felt it was like a jail treatment or something. It was not as I expected, you know, and this gave me a hint to how the apartheid system that the Israeli government is imposing on Palestinians. I mean, this was first-hand experience, very practical, hands-on.
Stephen Barden:So yeah, so you finished school in Gaza, is that correct? And then did you do university there as well, or were you aiming to go to university in the US?
Tareq:I finished my high school in Gaza and the school that I was studying at some kind of a deal with Al-Azhar University, and Al-Azhar University is one of the two biggest universities in the Gaza Strip, so the school was renting part of its land to Al-Azhar University. This kind of Al-Azhar University was having buildings on this land, and the land was owned by my high school. Okay, and instead of taking rent, my high school decided that they wanted to send their best students to go and study on scholarships at this university, which is Al-Azhar University again. So I was one of the best students at this school and then I had the chance to access this scholarship and then go and study at Al-Azhar University, and Al-Azhar University is located in the city of Gaza. So, yeah, and what did you study?
Tareq:I majored in English language and its teaching methods. And what did you study? I majored in English language and its teaching methods, and a really tough journey like to start learning the language at that age. You know, I had some basics, but I was not really good at the language, so it was kind of. I started learning the language at or around 18, 19.
Stephen Barden:So yeah, it was yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a thing, isn't it?
Tareq:(Stephen) when you learn language that late, it's difficult, yeah yeah. (Tareq)it was challenging, especially with the nature of gaza. Like the gaza strip was under arc land blockade, no one was allowed to get into the gaza strip. No one was allowed to go out of the gaza strip and if you think about it in terms of numbers, you will find that it is only people who have work permits or people who study purposes or treatment purposes that are allowed to leave the Gaza Strip and in terms of numbers, these people constitute less than 1%. And if you are a foreigner and you want to visit the Gaza Strip, you wouldn't be allowed to get a visa because Israel would claim that this area is dangerous and you cannot visit it. And this has affected the educational experiences of the students in the Gaza Strip. So, for example, as someone who was studying English, I never had a real contact with an English-speaking person, of whatever nationality they were, so I had to learn English, like over YouTube and listening to podcasts and reading books. So it was the really old way of learning it.
Stephen Barden:But it worked out. And your teachers were Palestinian, so they weren't native English-speaking people. Were they? Were they? So they weren't native English speaking people, were they no?
Tareq:my teachers were 100% Palestinians. No one was out of the Gaza Strip. As I told you, it was really difficult to get someone into the Gaza Strip from outside the Gaza Strip. I will tell you like in 2022, I succeeded to coordinate the entry of some Swedish friends who were really into visiting the Gaza Strip and they succeeded to get into the Gaza Strip under medical purposes and stuff like this. There was an organization at the time that was working in the field of psychosocial support services. They visited under this troop as part of this group, and they were good at doing what they were doing, you know, but it was not their field, you know, and at the time I remember that when they left the Gaza Strip, they lived in tears, they felt that they were manipulated the whole time and they found, in the Gaza Strip, huge resilience of the people and they found joy and happiness. And also they found how much people in the Gaza Strip are being suppressed and how much challenging the circumstances.
Stephen Barden:Yeah, I get it. I get it. (Tareq:Yeah, in Gaza were ..) Tarek. So when we talked a couple of weeks ago, you told me that actually you didn't really want to leave. Did you to go to the States to study when you left? You left in 2023, january 23. Is that right?
Tareq:Yeah, actually I arrived in the USA in January 2023. But the journey of getting the visa was really complicated and my connection with Bluffton University, the university that invited me to come and pursue my studies,
Stephen Barden:nd that's in Ohio, correct?
Tareq:It is. It was kind of strange how this relationship started, but I remember that when I get the visa and everything, my father at the time was at the hospital I mean, after a long journey of trying to get the visa like it was around seven months. Besides this and youth in the Gaza Strip and I was managing projects there and coordinating activities you know, field activities and actually it secured me good income and I was, at the same time, living with my family. So I did not want to leave all of this behind and, just you know, start over in the USA. And it started to get worse when my father was at the hospital and I felt that he needed me. So I executed yeah, at first, and and uh, my father after that. In december 2020, he passed away and I posted this. The university in the usa was so understanding and they reached out again and they offered me the chance. So, yeah, at that time, like it was hard to take a decision and it was really complicated.
Stephen Barden:I'm sorry to hear that. I'm sorry to hear that. So you then? What was the plan about you going to the US? What are you studying at the university now?
Tareq:Actually I'm doing my master's in business administration, minor organizational management, and this was kind of a career shift that I decided to take after doing my bachelor's in English language and teaching methods.
Tareq:Actually, at some point while doing my major I was really fascinated by English literature and Shakespeare and Dickens and stuff like this and the novels, and I wanted to do my master's in English literature.
Tareq:But after I worked with Youth Vision Society, I found how gratifying and satisfying it is to you know, I was working with marginalized communities in Western Gaza and I felt always of a huge gratification to be of help to these people and to raise funds for them and, you know, for different projects that serve them, and I feel of the importance of this work. So it's kind of I wanted to do a career shift. So I started to apply for international organizations at the time so that I can take, you know, a step further, and these organizations were always asking for higher academic qualifications than bachelors. So when I started to apply for getting masters in different universities around the world, actually I was planning to get a scholarship or something and it was difficult to do that because my major was different from what I was seeking Like. My major was English language and I was trying to get master's in business administration and I was kind of resolved to get this. You know what I mean.
Stephen Barden:How long are you planning to stay there?
Tareq:Actually I graduate in May May 4th but it's going to be kind of a fake graduation because I officially graduated in December, like I'm only working for graduation on May 4th. But it's going to be kind of like a fake graduation because I officially graduated in December, like I'm only working for graduation on May 4th.
Stephen Barden:It's not a fake graduation. It's commencement, isn't it? That's basically what it is.
Tareq:Yeah, but I still will have one semester left after I graduate. So yeah, after that my visa will allow me to stay here for an extra year to do a year of optional practical training that is relevant to my major, and then I'm hopeful that after that I will get a chance to extend my visa in some way. I still need to figure this out.
Stephen Barden:So you've been busy as well. So you've been busy as well, I mean, apart from clearly busy doing your studies. When we talked a couple of weeks ago, you said you were off to Texas, which I felt a bit nervous about. I don't know about you, although I've met some very, very good people in Texas. Tell me what were you doing in Texas and tell me what that was like.
Tareq:Actually, since day one I arrived in the USA, it seems that people have been interested in hearing stories from the Gaza Strip. As I told you, the blockade on the Gaza Strip has made it really difficult for people to come out from the Gaza Strip and tell stories. So when a person gets out like it's only a handful of people who are out of the Gaza Strip right now I mean in Europe and in the USA, especially in academic positions who tell stories. You know what I mean. I have friends in Europe but they work like they are in different fields of work that are not in the storytelling thing, but it's only a handful of people who tell stories from the Gaza Strip. So I've been doing some type of speaking tours around. So I did speakings in Indiana and Michigan and Texas and Kansas.
Stephen Barden:What are your audiences? Who are your audiences that you talk to?
Tareq:For the most part, I speak to church congregations and I spoke to different events. I spoke at organizations events as well, like organizations who support Palestine and stand up for Palestinians' rights, and also I spoke for groups of who just gathered and wanted to learn more about the conflict in Palestine and ways to resolve it and how to support Palestinians in their pursuit of freedom.
Stephen Barden:Has it all been sympathetic or have you had some hostility or anything like that in your audience? Have you had people challenging you?
Tareq:Actually, part of my work in Gaza was focused on how to facilitate discussions and stuff like this. So I feel like I've been successful at doing this, especially in my speakings. Surely there were people who had different perspectives from mine, but I always tried to address these perspectives in a way that those perspective holders would understand what I meant or what I mean. I never like was in an aggressive confrontation with someone, neither here nor in the Gaza Strip, not anywhere, because I spoke also in different areas around the world, like I spoke when I was in Northern Ireland, I spoke when I was in Sweden. I always felt that I did not find it challenging to address people's concerns or questions. People would ask like kind of repetitive questions about stuff like do you condemn October 7th? What do you think of Hamas? Are Gaza people all supportive of Hamas? So this type of question. I feel that it was kind of naive and not so much in depth into the context of the conflict. It was not so difficult to address this question.
Stephen Barden:I assume part of your story is telling the story of the Nakba and telling the story of what's been going on since that. Is that right? Is that part of your story? Or do you tell the story of now only? What is the essence, the heart of your story? Or do you tell the story of now only? What is the essence, the heart of your story to these people?
Tareq:Actually, in my story I start the first slide with speaking about, I show a picture of Jaffa in 1948. And this picture shows life actually, and it is a picture of deport in in Jaffa. And this was before 1948 and specifically before the establishment of Israel. So I tried to tell my audiences that it was not a desert and no one made it bloom. It was already blooming with this population and it was full of life and it was an example of coexistence where Christians, Jews and Palestinians lived together. And then I show a picture of Jaffa right now and how Palestinians are not allowed to go and visit and see what's happening and see the beauty of this city because they are only Palestinians, and this would give my audiences an insight into the apartheid system that is imposed on Palestinians by the Israeli administration.
Stephen Barden:I want to ask you, not necessarily a good question, but one that I have been thinking about a lot over the past 8-10 months. When you're occupied by a people who basically have the support of the most powerful nation in the world that Israel is armed and supported by the most powerful nation in the world and there is little or no hope in the present of Palestine and the Palestinians achieving their aim, here's the question what is it like to live with little hope - to live with little hope?
Tareq:Actually, this is a tough question, but I would say that Palestinians are not living with little hope. They are living with huge, huge, enormous hope, but it is an unjust world that is not supporting this hope enough to grow bigger to the extent that they achieve their aim of establishing their own country and having access to self-determination as collectively, as an independent people, I mean. It seems now that everyone, every country, are more drawn to financial and economic interests than to supporting the right thing. It feels like it is not enough for someone now to support what is right because merely it is right. They need to be financially persuaded or economically persuaded that it is right. You know what I mean. With all the economic ties between the US and Israel, it feels that it is impossible that the US is not going to support or to protect its assets in Israel. It is not like they are supporting Israel because Israel is right or wrong. You know what I mean. What's happening right now in the Gaza Strip is clearly wrong and it is a genocide. By all means, I mean killing 12,000 kids. 12,000 children and I'm not talking about a 19-year-old, two three-year-old kid, five-, six-year-old kids. This is atrocious. I mean, I've never in my life seen something more atrocious than this. I've never seen something that is more terrible than this. I've never seen something that is more terrible than this.
Tareq:When I was in the Gaza Strip, I used to feel that I survived like three wars or three major wide-scale attacks from the Israeli administration on the Gaza Strip in 2008, 2012, 2014. During these attacks, the claim was always destroy Hamas and to destroy the resistance, and the resistance always grew stronger and the result that Israel was always achieving is destroying the civil life and the population of the Gaza Strip. What I meant to say? That, after experiencing these attacks, I thought that this is the high level of cruelty that Israel can commit. After seeing this genocide happening in the Gaza Strip it's kind of Israel never ceases to shock me how much cruel they can get to be.
Tareq:You know, I mean all peoples around the world and I'm 100% sure that do not have any interest or economic ties with Israel. I mean especially individuals. When you speak to them, they are 100% supportive of the Palestinians' rights and they are 100% supportive of the establishment of Palestine as a country. I mean, if you analyze it. I mean it does not need an expert. I mean, if you analyze it, I mean it does not need an expert. Only, like a few days ago, eight university campuses in the USA, eight of the biggest in the USA, were protesting standing up for Palestinians and for Palestinians' rights. I mean, when you stand up for Palestinians' rights, you do not support any political agendas, you do not have your pocket inflated with money from any kind, from anyone. You are only supporting the human values and in yourself that you believe in. You know what I mean. It's kind of you are taking an action towards your beliefs. You are turning your beliefs into actions. So that's how I see it.
Stephen Barden:Tareq, did you lose family in this war in Gaza?
Tareq:I did. I lost three of my sisters.
Stephen Barden:I'm sorry. I'm sorry to hear that, and when did that happen ?
Tareq:This happened on October 20th. I lost one sister because of the white phosphorus that was so close to our house and she suffered from asthma and she could not withstand the smell of it and she was frightened of the carpet bombing that was taking place in our neighborhood. So she lost breath for a while and my brother rushed her into the hospital, but it was too late and at the time she passed away. At the start of November I lost my other two sisters. They were on the evacuation road and they were heading to southern Gaza, the area that Israeli forces claimed that would be safe. On the evacuation road my family calls it the road of terror. On the evacuation road, my two sisters were killed by a sniper.
Stephen Barden:I want to end with just asking a question from your heart where is home for you now? Gaza is not. You wouldn't recognize it, I suspect. Now, with all the bombing that's happened, where is home for you?
Tareq:even if what stays of Gaza is the rubble. The rubble is going to be my home. Gaza is my home and it is my eternal home. It is the place that will always feel home to me. I was always planning to get back to the Gaza Strip after I finished my study in the USA. Now my return to the Gaza Strip is going to be delayed it is never going to be impossible. Delayed it is never going to be impossible. I will surely get back to the Gaza Strip when this madness launched by Israel stops and I'm hopeful to be one of the builders who get back there and get back to invest in the community and the people and in the.
Tareq:Gaza Strip again.
Stephen Barden:And I hope so too, and I hope so too. Bless you. Thank you so much. That was wonderful. Thank you for sharing that with me and my apologies for asking you some tough questions, but thank you for telling me your story. Thank you very much, thanks.
Tareq:Thanks for having me and again thanks for the invitation and for providing this venue for telling the stories from the Gaza Strip. Thanks so much.
Stephen Barden:My guest today was Tarek. If you liked what you heard, please leave a review or subscribe. This has been another episode of Migrant Odyssey. I'm Stephen Barton.