Meet Jade Hadfield, a Senior HR Business Partner with Hello Fresh, who takes us on a journey of discovery, as she unravels her life with neurodivergence. Jade opens up about her early struggles with relationships and education, the maze of mental health diagnoses and treatments she navigated, and her eventual diagnosis of Autism and ADHD. From the misunderstandings of depression and anxiety to the reality of her neurodivergence, Jade peels back the layers of her mental health journey, shedding light on the often unseen world of neurodivergent individuals.
Through candid conversations, Jade underscores the reality of mental health in the workplace and her path towards self-acceptance. Hear firsthand how Jade has learned to be open about her condition with her employer and how she believes workplaces can better accommodate those with neurodivergence. We delve into the intersection of neurodivergence and maternity services as Jade shares her experiences of postnatal depression and the hurdles of adapting to motherhood.
Jade also shares her personal life, reflecting on her relationship with her partner and their shared parenting adventures. We explore her hobbies and relationship with money as she describes the constant battle between routine and impulsiveness. Jade's story is essential for anyone seeking a deeper understanding of neurodivergence and the mental health landscape. So join us as Jade Hadfield courageously shares her life and offers advice and reassurance for others on a similar journey.
Outro
This is a special edition episode recorded from a webinar.
Meet Jade Hadfield, a Senior HR Business Partner with Hello Fresh, who takes us on a journey of discovery, as she unravels her life with neurodivergence. Jade opens up about her early struggles with relationships and education, the maze of mental health diagnoses and treatments she navigated, and her eventual diagnosis of Autism and ADHD. From the misunderstandings of depression and anxiety to the reality of her neurodivergence, Jade peels back the layers of her mental health journey, shedding light on the often unseen world of neurodivergent individuals.
Through candid conversations, Jade underscores the reality of mental health in the workplace and her path towards self-acceptance. Hear firsthand how Jade has learned to be open about her condition with her employer and how she believes workplaces can better accommodate those with neurodivergence. We delve into the intersection of neurodivergence and maternity services as Jade shares her experiences of postnatal depression and the hurdles of adapting to motherhood.
Jade also shares her personal life, reflecting on her relationship with her partner and their shared parenting adventures. We explore her hobbies and relationship with money as she describes the constant battle between routine and impulsiveness. Jade's story is essential for anyone seeking a deeper understanding of neurodivergence and the mental health landscape. So join us as Jade Hadfield courageously shares her life and offers advice and reassurance for others on a similar journey.
Outro
This is a special edition episode recorded from a webinar.
Hello everyone and welcome to episode three of our podcast. I am Laura Spence and I'm here with my co-host, louise Brady.
Speaker 2:Hello.
Speaker 1:And today we are very excited because we have Jade Hadfield with us, who is a lovely fellow neurodivergent female, and I'm just going to introduce her and hopefully she can share a little bit about her journey. So welcome, jade, it's lovely to meet you and over being conversing back and forth. Thank you About various slip-ups that we've both done, because you asked me to email you the link, so I emailed you, but I never included the link. Yeah, just various blunders. However, welcome to the podcast. It's lovely to meet you.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Thank you for having me on. It's lovely to meet you both too Pleasure.
Speaker 1:I'm going to explain a little bit about who you are, what you do for a living and how you came about. You know, coming to learn about your neurodivergence and.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure. So I am a senior HR business partner for Hello Fresh, which I'm sure most people in the UK have heard about. It's everywhere. I've been there for about seven, eight months, but I've worked in HR for about 12 years now. I absolutely love it. It is my total passion in life, which people always find interesting because of this unconscious bias about neurodivergent people not being people, people. But actually I'm very much people, person and masculinity is absolutely my weakest point in anything I do in life, so probably don't fit the unconscious bias that people think about.
Speaker 3:In terms of my journey to my diagnosis, I have struggled as far back as I can remember ever since being a child. I really, really struggled at school, never felt like I fitted in all throughout school, oh God. I can't even remember how many times my mom went into school through bullying or was on the phone to parents of other girls. Interestingly, always seem to make friends with boys a lot easier than girls and even as I've gone on to be an adult I'd probably say have more male friends than female friends. Don't know why that is. It would probably be interesting to see whether there's a connection there. But even for a long period of time in my twenties. My friends are always probably bar one or two close female friends. But yeah, struggled, struggled desperately throughout school, even education wise, the normal on all my parents evening and reports were highly intelligent if she just applied herself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah distracted, she can be disruptive in class. So yeah, those common traits that you often hear from, I guess, adhd autistic girls Then left school, entered into the workplace and until I got into HR I struggled at work as well, failed a lot of probation, just didn't really understand why things just weren't working out, job hopped quite a lot. Then probably got to about 18, 19 before I started going to the doctors and saying something's just not right here. I'm desperately struggling and got diagnosed with clinical depression at about the age of 21. And I think that was more than likely just the easy option for the GP to say I don't really know what it is, so we'll give you a diagnosis, put your medication. I was then on and off antidepressants I don't know three, four years, different types of therapy. It was then diagnosed with social anxiety, generalized anxiety, chronic anxiety. I've tried CBT more times than I can count and, as probably normal with ADHD, gave off about halfway through because I lost interest in it because it was having no value.
Speaker 3:But kept going back, kept trying to do it was coming home from sessions like, yeah, I'm going to have a calendar, yeah, I'm going to have a book, kept them for a day or two and it just never kind of panned out. But it's then went on to start impacting me and personal relationships. So I'm very much a full, fast and hard in relationships. Most of the time I fall fast and hard and fall back out of it as quick and then I'm stuck in a situation where I'm a bit like, oh, I don't want the conflict of ending it.
Speaker 2:I also don't want to change. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 3:I was starting love with him last week but he turned up in small full trainers. So I'm switched off now but I don't know how to get myself out of the situation and then, yeah, so it's impacted relationships in that sense, but also, I think, for the people that have genuinely wanted to be in a relationship. My mental health has just caused that to just break down because they've not been able to cope with it and I've not understood at that point what was wrong. Throughout my 20s my career kept excelling, kept getting better, I was succeeding in it, and then I kept trying to think, well, how can I succeed in this area? But everything else that's personal, is just not. Something's just not working here and failing in life. It was my view. And then that my partner now we've been together for eight years.
Speaker 3:I gave birth to my little boy couple of months after my 29th birthday and slipped into what I thought was a deep depression, didn't share anything until my little boy was maybe 10, 11 months old and my partner my partner actually separated just because of how bad I was. It was at that point where I said I need some help. We managed to get back on track, went to the doctors another misdiagnosis of postnatal depression being treated again for something of that nature. I guess the medication helped for a period of time and then came off it because they said it's time to come off it and then slipped back under again, all the while still maintaining this career and keep excelling and going into high level roles. But again, home life was deteriorating again and it would be things like I'd go out for a drink with Mova half and drink excessively and then just have an absolute meltdown and be crying my eyes out having to come home and it eventually my Mova half actually said I think you might be bipolar because you just have these ups and downs, ups and downs. So this would have been when I was about 31 maybe, and I went to the doctor and said look, I've been having treatment for years. I actually think I'm bipolar.
Speaker 3:And they laughed at me. I remember it was a female nurse and she actually laughed in my face and said don't be so ridiculous, if you got bipolar you'd be in hospital. And I said well, there's something wrong, because the depression that you treat before is not working. The anxiety is not working. Sent me away with a flyer, told me to refer myself therapy and that was all the support I got. So I referred myself. I thought I'll give it one last go and I spent two hours with what was actually a trainee therapist. They said to me, would you mind going with the training? I said no, that's fine. And in those two hours she spoke more sense to me than anybody has in all the years. And she's got to the end of the session.
Speaker 1:Because they are so on it, they're so well researched at that point.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and she got to the end of the session and she said you're going to feel really disheartened because there's absolutely nothing I can do for you. And I was thinking, oh no, not again. And she said I am 99.9% certain you are both autistic and ADHD. So I can give you CBT. And she said but it won't help you for a long period of time. You'll just go through the same cycle. We need to get you referred for both these conditions. So I she actually said AST in the meeting. So I came back to my partner and said oh, she says that I'm AST and ADHD. And he said what's AST? I said I'm assuming it's just another form of ADHD. So I googled it and I said I'm not autistic, because at that stage I'd only known autistic to be non-verbal and all of the societal views on it.
Speaker 3:I said there's no, I'm not doing it, I'm not going for the test and this is ridiculous. This is just another thing yet again. So I left it and ignored the letters for three months until we watched Paddy and Christine McGinnis' documentary around Christmas about the children. And then they did the testing about halfway through and her test came out as prevalent for autism and she went to see the specialist and she talked for 20 minutes and I burst into tears and me and the half-paws Italian. He looked at me and said you are definitely autistic. There is no doubt about that. You need to go to the doctors. And I was sobbing and I was like oh my God, I can't believe I was going to ignore it.
Speaker 3:So I then picked up the letters, went for the testing. The doctor at this stage just had no interest in the ADHD at all, didn't even want to look at it. So we did the testing for the autism. That came out really high and he said look, the therapist has said you got it. The test that you're doing are coming out high. I've spent an hour with you and it's clear that you've got it. The waiting list on the NHS just to get your certificate for an official diagnosis is years, so you can just take this as your autistic and go away and not have the actual official neuro. And I said no, I've spent years tracing this
Speaker 3:I want to go for it, but I also want to go for the ADHD as well. What then happened was I heard nothing for about four months and I chased the doctors and they said oh no, we've had a letter back from the hospital. They're not going to accept you. And I said what do you mean? They're not going to accept me? So she opened up the referral and the GP had just put in the referral, has taken the test, indicates autism, not filled out any of the form around the medical history. So I then had to go back in with a second GP and spend another hour and I had to fill that form out because they were just asking me the question of the form and I was having to fill it out At that point.
Speaker 3:Yeah, at that point I then got accepted for the autism diagnosis. The ADHD one is still a massive battle. So I've now seen two more GPs who said I'm ADHD as well. I've seen a therapist who says I am and my ADHD testing is coming out at 49 out of 50. Whereas the autism was 41 out of 50.
Speaker 3:Yes, Get top marks in some tests. Finally, yeah, so it's frustrating because I'm still battling.
Speaker 2:You're still waiting for an official diagnosis of ADHD, so I imagine you're not having any treatment or pharmacological treatment. No, because that's that's something that most of us find not everyone, but I'm sure you know this Most of us find it really groundbreaking and a real help. So, when they said, when the therapist said at the end I think that's great, by the way, because we're hearing it more and more that that health professionals who aren't directly linked to services that deal with autism or ASD and ADHD are picking up on on these traits and yes, the day, Sam she said it was, she went to the gynecologist for premenstrual dysphoria symptoms and they suggested that she might have ADHD.
Speaker 1:I just think it's really interesting that actually you know, the more you raise awareness. Then there are these other avenues, so encouraging, isn't it?
Speaker 2:But yeah, were you, were you just completely flawed by that? You had no inkling that.
Speaker 3:I wasn't flawed by the ADHD because since I'd seen the GP and they'd said I wasn't bipolar, and start to do a bit of Research myself because I thought this is the only way I'm gonna get anywhere. So the ADHD thing I was already pretty uncertain. Yeah, I think I got ADHD. The autism flawed me. It doesn't now because I've spent years researching it, but it's that society view on what autism actually is. It's what society view on autism is versus what it actually is in reality. But yeah, the ASD just completely flawed me. The ADHD not so much, but yeah.
Speaker 3:So I'm actually on an SSRI drug, so it's really interesting. So the doctors have said there's no real medication for autism, but they're trialling SSRI drugs. So I've been on them for 18 months. Bearing in mind I've not had a single review of the GP since put me on the medication. They just keep giving me repeat descriptions. That's another story.
Speaker 3:But since I've started on this SSRI drug, it's the emotional regularities a lot better. I'm still having periods of it, but it's a lot better. It's not as up and down day to day and my sleep is really great now. But what I'd started to notice was some of my social anxiety was really getting worse. So normally I can go out with friends and I'm okay. Now if I plan a night out, the day of my anxiety is just through the roof. Forgetful nurses getting worse and worse for me. So I started to do a bit of research and People who are autistic and ADHD who are taking the SSRI drug. It actually has something in it that exasperates the ADHD symptoms. So they're saying now you need to be mindful and maybe have a trial period to understand which symptoms are worse and which you can cope with. So yeah, it's really interesting.
Speaker 3:The ADHD medication is another interesting one for me. I think my whole life I thought just want to switch my mind off. I want to go to bed and not have everything running. I'd love to spend a day where it feels like there's nothing in my head. But then I also think I wonder whether I would be as successful in my career in some of these higher-pressured roles I do, if I didn't have this constant urge to go and go and go. Yeah. So all of a sudden now I'm thinking all my life I've wanted to turn it off, but actually now there's a possibility I might get to that point. Do I want to turn it off.
Speaker 2:It's questions I've never thought I'd ask myself and now I know I I felt, I felt similar to that when I was really similar story to you on and off antidepressants and I'd got to a point where I was so kind of encouraged and he's asked about what I was doing. This is a few years ago and and I'd really gotten into writing and I wanted to do this and wanted to do that and but my anxiety was absolutely different. My anxiety was absolutely horrendous and I resisted going back on the antidepressants because I thought it's just going to numb me. It almost not numbs me, because I still take them now and and I'm really grateful for them actually because I think they've been quite life-saving for me and lots of people. I see it all the time, but it's that sense of am I going to lose who I am, the essence of me? And actually I was watching.
Speaker 2:I was watching a lecture from Ned Halloway Don't know if you've come across him adoptees, specializes in ADHD and and coaching and the entrepreneurial mind particularly. And listening to him was so encouraging. He's a psychiatrist was saying the medication doesn't get rid of this magic. What it does is it lets you use it in a more useful way. You know you can focus on one thing rather than 100 things and feel like you're not getting anywhere. It doesn't, it doesn't stunt creativity. I think that was the message that he was giving and that really gave me some, some encouragement with that, with the medication, but I absolutely know where you're coming from, because you feel that a sense of Not necessarily. I don't feel blunted by the ADHD medication. I do feel blunted by the antidepressants and but that was very welcome because I had extreme anxiety right. So you want.
Speaker 3:It's like feel less strongly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, you are kind of blunted like that, but, um, but I do think I haven't experienced that with the ADHD medication. In fact it's. It's, if anything's given me more kind of more of self-esteem because I can do things in a more productive way not always like I really, you know it's I don't think it's magic, but I don't know just offer you some reassurance because it sounds like you're really successful and You're really good at what you're doing and you're working in HR and and all of those things that, um, you would want something that's going to enhance what, what you have, rather than dumping it, right, yeah, yeah, and I'm just, I'm also wondering you said that, um, you, you GP said don't, you know, there's a huge rating list, so, and you obviously work in HR, so you'll know this so do you have, do you have the, the kind of official diagnosis of autism to be able to go on to that, you know, be clustered into the disability act or all those kind of things and work? Is that been a battle or not?
Speaker 3:Um, it's no, it's not been a battle and I don't. I'm one of these. I don't really see it as a disability now at this stage for me, I think I think what's interesting is all my life I've probably felt like it has been until the diagnosis and it's actually been completely freeing for me. But I've also been really fortunate in since my diagnosis. So I was with another organization and I shared it with them and the response that I got was amazing. And the response has been the same since joining Hello fresh. You know, if you need something, just tell us, and I do feel quite comfortable and open now. If I need something, I'll just say I need it. So, yeah, I don't think I've I've I've openly disclosed it when I joined Hello fresh on my application form that do consider myself to come under that act, but I don't think I've ever really needed the to use it in that sense. Yeah, I've been really really fortunate with my employer since I've been diagnosed that They've just been really supportive. But I'm also quite aware there is a lot of employers out there who aren't supportive and people do need to be able to utilize that element of the diagnosis. But, yeah, I think I yeah, I'm quite honest, a couple of weeks ago I was finishing my dissertation.
Speaker 3:I was really struggling, my anxiety was at an all-time high, I was completely wiped out and I was due to go to Like a half-day employment law event with someone in my team and I just had to say look, I'm really sorry, I, I can't do this, it's too much socially for me.
Speaker 3:I just can't go. And I'm Learning to be a bit more selfish in that sense of just saying if I can't do it, I can't do it, whereas historically, before my diagnosis, I would have pushed myself and I would have done it. And that's probably when I would have slipped into this depressive, anxious state because I'm just saying yes all the time to everything. Um, I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm still a people pleaser and I say yes to most things and then think, how do I back out of it now? But I'm learning to be a bit more selfish and I'm learning to Understand myself more so that I can just be open and honest. But I've kind of took this view now that from an employment sentence, I will be open and share with you during an interview stage and I will then Take my view of that organization on how your response is, and if you're not accepting of it in an interview, or I wouldn't join the company and that's it because if I've got to, mask and hide.
Speaker 3:I have to mask and hide my condition and can't be open, then you're not the right place for me, because you're just not going to be supportive along the line.
Speaker 1:On this, on this objective interviews, I have recently discovered that if you have a diagnosis of autism and ADHD, you can actually ask for the interview questions 40 hours in advance. Yeah, yeah, exactly, which I just thought was absolutely brilliant, in fact that. So I'm a midwife by trade and I was on a call with the birth rights UK charity because they were advertising two posts and they were doing a bit of Just a bit of an online kind of I don't even know what you would call it. It was like a pre-application thing where you could just ask the CEOs any questions that you had, and they talked about remote working so they're a completely remote organization, which I think is brilliant and but also you could apply for that job In any way that you saw Was appropriate for you. So you didn't have to fill in an application form. You could send them a voice note, you could send them a video. You know, you didn't it's whatever suited you and what was whatever was going to work for your learning style, which I thought was an absolute.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they also said that everybody will be given the interview questions 40 hours in advance so that you can Prepare. So I thought there's obviously a neurodivergent leader in there somewhere. Yes, actually, then neurotypical people might start cracking up saying that, oh, they're an unfair advantage because they have the questions 40 hours in advance. So actually, if you just give them to everybody, then you're going to get the best out of everyone, aren't you? Regardless, yeah, no status. I just thought you know that's really forward thinking and what a good organization they would be to work for. I never applied for the job because it was like communications officer and Policy law stuff. I wasn't qualified for those roles, but it was just. I found that really interesting.
Speaker 1:That's reassuring that yeah, but that's really progressive. Um, Jade, there was a couple of things I wanted to come back to touch on through what you were talking about. Yeah, um, I First of all congratulations on submitting your dissertation. We will come back in a few minutes. You talked about after you had given birth to your son and you felt Quite a dramatic drop in your mental health. Can we explore that a little bit more? And I don't know. Yeah, but that is a particular subject of interest for me being a midwife and I'm doing my dissertation on. Um On, I've started in SipTi. I forget what I'm doing on. What am I doing?
Speaker 2:on. You know you laugh at me, isn't it trauma?
Speaker 1:in the effect on your children. You've got neurodivergent women's experiences of maternity services, but I've also I'm just plugging myself here, but this is a bit of shameless self promotion I've just trade my company name, which is Neuronatal, and I'm particularly interested in the postnatal period of people who have AHE, because during pregnancy your estrogen levels are at their highest, so your symptoms are going to be resolved, you're going to be feeling better. Quite a lot of people might then think oh, I'm just going to take myself off the drugs because I feel fine now I'm fine. But then very sharply, your estrogen levels drop postnatally once your placenta has delivered, and many women with ADHD their symptoms come back then tenfold on top of the normal symptoms of the hormone dynamics post delivery. So I'm particularly interested in the fact that you were diagnosed with postnatal depression, when actually it probably wasn't postnatal depression, was it? It was the fact that your symptoms of your neurodivergence were coming back in excess.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, I think for me. I didn't have a great labour either. So I was two weeks over, spare the gory details. But I went into labour about 10 days overdue. Then it stopped. Then they induced me.
Speaker 3:My pain threshold's not great either because of the sensory piece, so I also had an allergic reaction to the pessary when I was induced, which was just hell, didn't have a great experience at the hospital, ended up having an emergency C-section, having to be put to sleep as well for it, because my epidural hadn't taken properly when they'd done it. So I had all of that and I think when I'm put to sleep it takes me about 24 hours to come back around as well. So the first day for me I was just in and out of consciousness and I think then everything just seemed to be happening around me and not with me. And then we got back home and it was yeah, I think. At first I started to think is it because I've had a C-section and there's a lack of connection there, which I've heard can happen a lot when you have a C-section? But it just felt like then first 10, 11 months I desperately struggled to adapt to this, having this baby that just sleeps and eats and cries and the lack of sleep for me as well.
Speaker 3:So my little boy would wake up every hour and a half for a feed. My other half had gone back to work so he was working full time. I was doing the night feeds and it just seemed to get worse until the point where I thought I need to sleep when he does. So I stopped leaving the house as well, because I was so fearful that if I left the house and he fell asleep in the car, oh my God, I've lost my chance. And I just became completely isolated in just the house with him and, yeah, I just really struggled, I just felt down all the time and I think it was the change as well.
Speaker 3:I got so used to this routine of getting up in the morning, having a shower, going to work, coming home and work's a massive coping mechanism for me with my conditions. It really helps me. And then all of a sudden that routine was completely gone and I was just at home all the time and, yeah, I really really desperately struggled, just felt depressed, then had this complete mum guilt of I should just be flourishing in this time. I should be going to mum groups, but again I went to one mum group and just didn't speak to anybody and didn't feel like I fitted in and everyone was really clicky. So then I just never went to another mum's group again. So I felt like I'd just missed out on this whole year of a lot of my friends that have had children, my sister-in-laws.
Speaker 3:Yeah, both my sister-in-laws have had children. They've gone to mum groups. I've created this community of these other mums that they're now friends with, and I'm still sat here. My child is six in October and the only mum friends I have are the friends I had before I was pregnant.
Speaker 3:I've never engaged in any of that and things just carried on spiraling until eventually he got to about 15, 16 months and I said I need to go back to work now I had actually given up my job when it was about three months, because the view was, I would say, we'd made a decision that I was going to stay until he was five, and at the time I thought, yeah, this would be really great. It's fine. Three months in, I'm just in this bit of a lull, it'll get better. And then it never did so. At 16 months I said I need to go back to work. This life's not for me, which, again, you have this mum guilt. But actually I think it's made the relationship stronger with him and I think that, yeah, the first year for me was just incredibly tough. I just felt down all the time and constantly anxious about oh my God, is he going to cry or is he going to sleep? Or, you know, am I going to get sleep tonight?
Speaker 1:Unpredictability, that it's a lot of unknown. You know moving parts when you've got a new baby and the sleep is a massive factor in that because we know from our own, you know reading around it, that neurodivergent people, particularly for your ADHD mind, you need that sleep to kind of reset, don't you? Yeah, and did you? Were you pressed by any of the health professionals? So health visitors, midwives were they. Were they inquiring about your mental health? Did you disclose your mental health? How did you come to go to the GC about it?
Speaker 3:So I I'm trying to think, but I don't think we actually saw a midwife that frequently. I think maybe the first two weeks we saw them. They came out once or twice after he was born because obviously they had the C-section as well, and then I think we just used to go to, you know, the local dropping clinics to have him weighed, but nobody questioned me. It was interesting actually, because I think for the first two weeks my partner had the blues. Actually. Well, maybe for the first week he seemed to dig and was very emotional and I actually felt the stronger of the two at the time and I don't know if that's because he was having, you know, the, the daddy blues. So I needed to support in that sense.
Speaker 3:I think it wasn't until he went back to work that all of a sudden I felt this crash. And maybe it was because the support network was gone and I was on my own. But, like I say, it wasn't until he, my little boy, was about 11 months and I just carried on going down and down and downhill and me and my other half separated, because he was just like I just don't know what to do anymore. I can't, we're not happy, we're not, and it was awful for me because I was like we've just had a baby. What's happening? We only split for a short period. I'd say, you know, a week or two, as you do.
Speaker 1:You do these rash decisions, but also I wonder if you know you blamed the relationship for why you were so unhappy. Maybe that's maybe the time where I went to stay with my mum for a week or two. I had just reached the point of I don't know. I think Jordy must have been about 12 months old at the time, but I just felt so completely I don't know exhausted. Just everything was exacerbated at the time. I thought I'd feel deeply unhappy and I thought that was because I was unhappy. I just assumed that it can't be the baby, because you know, I love her. I love her unconditionally. However, there's something happening in my life here that's making me deeply unhappy and for a short period of time I think I assumed it must be my relationship. Then I can't think what else. You know, I don't know what other factor it is, but actually, on reflection, now that it wasn't, that it's just.
Speaker 1:It's unrecognised, undiagnosed.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:ADHD.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I remember it being interesting because once me and my partner had this call enough week or two, I just went to my mum's the same as you and came back and we spoke and I said I'm just really depressed, I'm really feeling down, I'm really really struggling with this. And I went to the doctors and I bet I was in there five, ten minutes when they said, yeah, you got patient depression, here's a prescription for some antidepressants on your way and that was it. There was no further support. I think I had a phone call when I was four, six weeks into the medication to renew the prescription and then that was, that was it. There was no signposting, nothing else. No, no, nothing, nothing really, and I think I think that's just been kind of repetitive with the whole journey I've been on you there just isn't that mental health support in the NHS, unfortunately, and I don't know at what point, at what crisis we have to get to in this country before the NHS saying we need to stand up here.
Speaker 3:I mean, we've seen nothing on the news but these neurodivergent children. The parents are going to the doctors, go ask them for support and they've been taken away into care homes. And it's like, at what point do we have to say general practitioners are simply not enough, and that's not me saying they're not great at their job, but they are general practitioners.
Speaker 1:It's the same as being honest in what I do, completely over over subscribed down there.
Speaker 2:What's really frustrating is particularly, you know, having ADHD. It's extremely treatable. It's I mean, I know it's a bit of a faff. You have to, you know, make sure that it's safe to take take medications. But you know, if you're thinking about cost, I don't know what the cost of the medication is, but medication is particularly. It's very, very effective for ADHD particularly. And and then you can add on things like coaching and therapy, but even just the medication is extremely effective.
Speaker 2:So that's the frustrating thing, isn't it that, like you say, parents are going to doctors and saying I'm struggling with my child, or, and they're kind of getting signposted, battered away, and you know I've worked in the NHS and you and Laura has, and you end up having quite defensive practice because you're overwhelmed. So you'll get a referral in and there'll be something on that referral that will mean that they're not suitable for you. So it's like, oh, thank goodness, I'm so busy I can't deal with that. So that needs to get started at the department and then it might not get looked at or get you know, but there's always a person at the end of it, isn't there when you're sat, when you're sat in your clinic or your your surgery, there's. You've got the paperwork in front of you and you can say, actually, that I can't take that referral, like like you experienced, jay, didn't you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually, at the end of it, there was you. There was you struggling and you know, not a new struggle, ongoing struggles for years and years and years, and I absolutely agree with you. It feels like you've been let down on so many levels and, sadly, you're probably not alone, are you? And it's, it's, and I think, that sense of Laura. You sent me a video last night, didn't you? About that sense of justice, what? What was it called? Oh yeah, justice, sensitivity.
Speaker 2:Sensitivity yes for you that we, I absolutely have that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we do as well. I think it's really common, isn't it? And yeah, and it's, it's that sense of God, but we can just do something about this.
Speaker 1:We could make this could be better you know, and that whole sense of I feel as if I need to change the world and I need to do it so quickly. It feels so urgent to me that I think why, can no one else see this? Why is nobody listening?
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:Why are they not seeing that? You know, like the cost? I mean, it's actually costing them so much more money, isn't it in terms of longer term public health issues, than spending them on the road Spending?
Speaker 1:the money now and rectifying these things, getting people the help they need it. Just it is just very frustrating. And I also wanted to talk about you. You mentioned about kind of home life versus what's life, that you were really excelling at work but your home life was suffering. Was that? Do you think that was a case of you were so hyper focused at work? You know, that was really kind of providing the dopamine. It was that kind of all or nothing type. You could only give it to work, you couldn't give it at home.
Speaker 3:It's interesting. I've never really thought about that, but me and my other half regularly talk and he says to me regularly you need to learn to switch off from work because you go to where you come home. You're talking about work. I think it possibly could be that. I think, because I've been successful at work, I personally see that as the one thing in my life I can always say I was successful at that. So I do put a lot into work.
Speaker 1:A lot of my effort goes into work and I think when you're successful, it's actually a bit of a buzz, doesn't it? You want to do more? Let's.
Speaker 3:And I'm also yeah, like I'm so proud of what I've done and what I've been able to achieve when I think about what I didn't achieve at school, to then also not achieve early in my career, to find something I'm passionate about and just kind of whoof excel at it and do really well, and I always fit in at work as well. It's really interesting, even if I don't fit in in personal life with friends, since I've been in HR. In every workplace I've been in, I've always got amazing feedback from my peers around me, always fitted in really well, seemed to be quite well liked in the workplace. And I always keep thinking why can't I just bottle what's here, put it here what's? And I can never seem to get it. I can never seem to bottle what's happening at work and I'm so organised at work as well, which really amazes me. I don't never miss a meeting, I never miss a deadline, I'm on top of things. But, yeah, it could not be more power opposite to my personal life, and that's interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 1:because at work you know there are guidelines, there are limitations, there are boundaries, and actually your brain obviously just really likes those things. And at home there is, as we said before, a lot of moving pieces. The situation is so dynamic and unpredictable that actually you struggle to kind of strategise that at the time. And you know, I think that's reasonable.
Speaker 2:I think also I don't know if either of you experienced this. I think maybe you do, laura certain, oh, probably. I find I've got three children and it's crazy, isn't it? Before I say anything negative, I have to just let everyone know that I do love them.
Speaker 1:Oh, I didn't see that. It's ridiculous. I mean, I obviously do.
Speaker 2:But I find it really quite boring, you know, stressful. I speak to other parents and they'll be like, oh God, they made me play this game for two hours. And I'm thinking, oh my God, I couldn't do that, I couldn't do that. And it's recognising that and trying not to feel guilty about it isn't it.
Speaker 2:You're not feeling it Like you say, that guilt that you felt, jaden, and when you think about the disparities. Obviously there are disparities between men and women in the parenting roles, because our experiences can be very different for lots of different reasons. But I don't think my husband feels guilty that he doesn't stay home with the kids all day. I think my husband's quite happy to be working and whereas for me it's like, oh well, the cop of childcare, and then should I be working and should I be doing this and should I be doing that? And it's so overwhelming for the best of us, isn't it? But I just and I think it sounds like because you really love your work, jade that that doesn't mean that you don't love your family, but it's a real dopamine hit, isn't it yeah?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You being able to mask with a not mask. But you've got this armour, I suppose, of a tight. You know your role and what's expected of you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, almost like it's not a hint, and then you go into a social situation and I'm the exact same.
Speaker 2:I feel quite capable in work, and then I go. I'm standing at the school gate. It's not like I don't know what to say. Do I speak? No, I don't want to speak. I don't want to speak and I'm standing for me. They're going to be thinking I'm this and it's just like you are you. You know I'm terrible.
Speaker 3:At the school gates I try and be, you know, either the first one in there, so there's not many people there, or the last one, so everyone's leaving. But again, even the mum we're on it there's a mum. What's that group? It's pinging all the time and they're arranging wine nights and I'm like I couldn't think of anything worse. I've got a few school school moms that are a bit like me, but outside of that I've got no interest. But yeah, I totally agree with you. My little boy is always like pay with my action fingers, pay with this. And the crazy thing is my imagination for playing with things like that's not there for big, creative things. Yeah, I'm off the scale, but he's five and I sit there and think I feel embarrassed, sitting here playing with this toy, making up a story. You're five, I'm not really that much of a player. I'm sitting here thinking what the hell am I doing? I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:It's like you feel as if it's not believable. Almost I completely zone out. I just know the kids will say to me mum, do I play cards? Nope, I do not want to play cards because that gets me no dopamine. So off you go. No, I don't want to play Monopoly. Absolutely do not want to play Monopoly.
Speaker 2:No, I'm fine and I have these amazing visions of us sitting around playing Monopoly and drinking hot chocolate and it's just not going to happen. The reality would be we'd probably end up stabbing each other. But I'm the same. I always feel like I've got to strive to be that, or I historically have quickly before I had a real reason for understanding myself that I've got other families or they're all playing Uno together on holiday. I just want to read a book.
Speaker 1:You think, oh, fuck off.
Speaker 3:Honestly, when we go away, I'm on the Sun Lounge. I want a Sun Lounge with a book. My other half-lays with him in the pool. I'll get in and out, but then you do see like these other ones. Yeah, but you see these other ones. And then you get this mumgill, don't you? Because you think God, when he gets older, will he remember family holidays as mum sitting on the lounge or on a road. But it's yeah, it's tough. It is tough because I see this ideal, I deal it, I deal it.
Speaker 1:I deal it.
Speaker 3:The family of this I've got. There's a mum at the school and she's out every weekend Saturday, sunday with her kids at the park by crimes, oh my God. They do everything. And I think, oh my God. But I will regularly say to my other half we don't do anything of a weekend, we need to go out, we need to do this. And he says to me why are you saying that? Because it will get to a weekend and you'll be like I'm in talks today and I just want to stay at home.
Speaker 3:I know I'm going to leave, yeah. Or your book thing yeah, it's a vision of wanting what everyone else appears to have. I mean he will always say to me just accept you for what you are and the life that we have, and be fine without Freddie's happy. He actually enjoys playing in the back garden and he's trampoline and he's sliding.
Speaker 2:He's got a little friend next door.
Speaker 3:They talk over the fence like a Dawson's Creek situation. He enjoys that, but I think I don't want him to get older and not have had things as a result of my condition and I think that's something I've got to try and get out of my head because that's what I always put it back down to is is he going to miss out on life memories as a result of me? But at the same time, is he ever going to know any different? Because I'm his mummy? He doesn't have anyone else to compare it to.
Speaker 1:It has to be true. Yeah, and actually it's more important for you to be true to yourself. It's much better to do that, and him being a relaxed atmosphere, than you trying to force yourself to do things that are completely miserable because you're not enjoying it.
Speaker 2:And I think as they get older you can start to, and then you can start to think about it and you understand yourself more. You can start to really explain more, and I certainly will do that. You know my kids will say why don't we do an X, Y and Z? And I'll say I'm sorry, I just found that really too much for me, I couldn't, and they kind of get it and I think that's important.
Speaker 1:Yes, what you're doing is you're not masking for the sake of achieving what you think everybody else thinks that you should achieve. It's that Neurodivergent people typically have this in common that you're constantly battling against the expectations that society has put on you. Yeah, but actually you know it's. How empowering is it now that you, you know, you understand how your mind works and you just do what works for you? I just think there's something very powerful about that and something, as you said before. You described it as being very freeing. Yes, I think that goes a long way to help you and your mental health without taking the medication. I mean, the medication is maybe just another step that will enhance.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah, it's, certainly changed my relationship with Mo the half of the better.
Speaker 3:I mean we've been on the journey together. So even he can sense now and can sense when things are a bit fraught or a bit down, and he'll know and we'll talk about things. And it's funny you talk then about wanting to change the world. There'll be regular days when it'll come over and work and I'm like, oh my God, I've seen this on the news, it's ridiculous. And I am continuously like, oh boy, we need to do this, we need to have this idea, we need to have this company. And I think now he just comes home from work and I watch him. He's sitting on the sofa and he's probably not absorbing it, but he just lets me ramble on for as long as I need to, whereas historically, be like can you just take a breath and just keep on talking.
Speaker 1:You find that you talk a lot oh.
Speaker 3:I talk. Yes, I love to talk, I love to talk.
Speaker 2:I talk a lot, or I've got my brain just can't talk, so I can't hear anything.
Speaker 1:I had dinner last night with my friends that I haven't seen for a couple of months. I was right giddy when I came back and I could not stop talking. I basically relayed every conversation that I had had with my friends while we were out. My husband looked at me and he went perfect, because I know an off switch with you.
Speaker 3:I do the exact same I will often. If I've had a really good day at work, I'll bounce through the door and I'll be like, oh my God, this happens to me.
Speaker 3:Or if I've had a bad day and I've been in a contentious meeting and then this happened and she said this and I said this and this is probably going to happen next, and before I know it, I've run into three weeks down the line with them. And then, if she says that they all may not happen, yes, and he'll be like I really don't need to know all of that, I'm like, yeah, but I need to just tell someone and I need to get it out of my head. And yeah, and I think now he just sits there and he's probably in his own mind, he's gone into his own world and he'll listen. And then at the end of it I'll be like, oh yeah, great, I'm like you just didn't listen to any of that, did you? And he's like, no, not really, I switched off after about three minutes.
Speaker 1:Well, I was the same at breakfast this morning. I come down the stairs and I said, because he was on his phone, and I went are you even listening to me? And then he went, oh my God. He said you're like this. First thing in the morning as well. He said I don't know how much more of a second take. We just shut up and it gets like that where something's got you really excited and then you're like you're in a different wavelength, aren't you?
Speaker 2:You're completely high and they're not.
Speaker 1:And I can't help but be so descriptive Like. I know there was a bit of a story right.
Speaker 1:And this is maybe too much information for the podcast, but you know, and for a penny and for a pound, I one day I had met my friends for lunch and it was during the holidays, so I had two out of three of the children with me the youngest and the oldest, and the middle one was way to football camp. And after we had met my friends for lunch, the kids wanted to go to the toy shop. So I live in the Channel Islands in Guernsey. It's quite a small community here, and this is what makes this even worse, especially if you're all listening to this podcast now. Which they will, which, yeah, they will be. And, louise, I think you probably know what story I'm about to tell.
Speaker 1:I went up to the toy shop and the toy shop, thankfully, wasn't that busy. It was round about my birthday, so I had on the brand new Birkenstocks that my husband had bought me, I had on a nice denim dress and I had treated myself to my first looks in a proper designer handbag. I'm normally a kind of pre-marked charity shop girl, but I had bought myself a really nice brown leather DKNY handbag. I thought I was letting the bees knees, you know my nice straw, or whatever. So we're in there in the shop and my daughter's autistic and has ADHD and she obsesses with certain cuddly toys. So I stood beside her looking at these cuddly toys and then Lewis the youngest one must have been about four at the time was like a wee gathering up. You know, these toys, these toys, like an arm full of toys. And then a past wind. So I farted and I thought that's all it was going to be, but what ensued was a diarrhea bug.
Speaker 2:Oh no, not we, oh no.
Speaker 1:I was wearing a like a dress and there was just then a puddle on the floor. It was running down my legs and I stood there in the toy shop thinking what the fuck has just happened. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I was just too wet.
Speaker 1:And Jo Deemadoah looked at me and she looked down at my legs and she went have you just started your period? No, I've just shit myself. So I'm fumbling about in my new handbag, looking and I only had like a couple of tissues left in the packet. So I quickly, like, cleaned up the small mess in the floor, cleaning up my legs, you know, had to chuck the tissue back in my bag because where else was the thing I put it?
Speaker 2:And then round comes the corner.
Speaker 1:Lewis will always toys in his arms and I'm like, oh my God, let's just pay for these and leave, let's do it. Paid for them. That was fine. Rushed down to the closest toilet, went in there. I had to put my brakes in the bin. I thought to myself, oh my God, that has never happened to me before. That is awful. I cannot believe that in my new Birkin's docks I could have cried. And of course, my car was parked at the way the opposite end of the town. So there I was, scurrying through the town and I said to me you need to check my dress at the back and see if there's any marks on it.
Speaker 1:And she said yeah, there's some splashes, there's some lit spots. So then I'm using my new handbag, holding it behind me, trying to cover up the shit splashes from the back of my dress, oh Lord.
Speaker 1:And then I'm running and running, and running, like you know, walk, run, walk run, hoping that you don't bump into anybody, bump into one of the midwives from work, and she has her two daughters with her and she's like, oh hi. And I'm like, oh my God, you know what's this happening to me? I'm just shitting myself in the door. Why did I feel like I need to tell her that? I don't know. But I just, you know, there's no secrets with me at all. No, I'm not. So then she's saying to one of her daughters take your cardigan off, give her your cardigan so that you can cover up. And I was like, no, don't give me your cardigan because I don't. I'm just like I'm nothing, shit, I'm walking, I'm walking, I'm walking, I'm walking. All the way to the car park, got in the car and I thought I was supposed to be a night shift for the next two nights. I kind of go to work if I'm shitting myself. Can I shitting myself at work? I imagine that you're in the Labour room and then you're midwife Tasty Leif, because she's shit or something.
Speaker 1:I rang her again to work and it was um Kirsten, my um. She's actually my direct line manager at work when I work there and, uh, she's also got a very, very good, dry sense of humour. But I felt they need to explore the whole story from. You know, I was fine this morning and I met such and such for lunch, and then I rushed away from there to the toy shop and then Jodie was looking at this and Lewis was looking at that and he'd I'm full of toys. And then I had to buy them all because, uh, what had happened was, um, I went into a fart and and it wasn't a fart I've got a diarrhea bug and I'd drip myself in the toy stock and it was all in my new Birkin's socks, all of my denim dress and I had to use my new bag to hide my bum and it's a designer bag.
Speaker 1:I've never really had one before. And then I bumped into Dot and I was really in the whole story. She's on the floor pissing herself, laughing, and then it gets to the end of the conversation. I said so what I'm saying is I'm not coming to work tonight. I'm really upset, jodie. I mean, why did I? I just I can't just limit the information. It's like information dump. No one's saying I've got to explain everything.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh, and I don't I mean, who's going to be telling that story? That is something that normal people would keep to themselves.
Speaker 3:It's crazy, isn't it? I'll often not telling a story, and then I've gone from point A to point Z, over to here, and then I'm in a completely different story now and I'm like oh, inside now and when this happened, this was also happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Five minutes in a block.
Speaker 1:Oh, and it's not always remember what the original story was now it's not always obvious to the people that you're speaking to either your trainer thought and how you got there. So my husband will be talking about something and that'll make me think about something else. That makes me think about something else and then I voice the third thing down the line and then I have to backtrack and say, oh, and I got to this because you said that and it made me think of this, which then made me think of that, which is how I got here. Yeah, Like I forget to voice that.
Speaker 2:I, I did something at school once. I mean, it's a really quick story, but I did something at school once and it horrifies me to this day still. And it was in when I was. I was living in Guernsey and one of my daughters went to. Well, they both went to this really strict Catholic school and I had trouble with the teacher.
Speaker 2:And we couldn't because I'm really strict Catholic. No, I didn't realize it was so strict when. When they went there, but my youngest didn't get on there, the teacher didn't particularly like me and and you know, we would mean I was going to go through it like what was the problem there, anyway? So my youngest daughter started a new school and my other daughter stayed in the original. But my oldest daughter is mixed race and my younger daughter is white because they have different biological fathers. So the Catholic school this is where it's relevant. I suppose I'm not bunching this into all Catholics, by the way, but it was just generalization. But so it's with all these new mums at the new school and they're all like with their lovely fancy hamburgs and many fancy people.
Speaker 1:I bet you didn't use their fancy handbags to cover up the shirts. They didn't.
Speaker 2:They definitely wouldn't have done that, but they're probably listening now so they probably will. And and I was just relaying like what had happened at the other school and I said I don't know. I said I think maybe she didn't like the fact that it was quite obvious that I've had sex with more than one man in my life. And oh my God, why did I say?
Speaker 1:that.
Speaker 2:There's only certain people I feel I can say those things to, because that is who I am. And hi Lewis, you see it again.
Speaker 1:You came through to see.
Speaker 2:Stop swearing. Sorry, it's your mum Lewis, not me. So it's just that inappropriateness, isn't it? It's knowing. And then I'm just I'm coiling now just thinking about it, because it was just like tumbleweed. I think one of the mums laughed a little bit and then from that day onwards I thought she was the best person in the world because she'd laughed at that. But yeah, I was like, oh my God, louise, what did you do that? For what? Because it just makes me feel uncomfortable and have you.
Speaker 3:I did something really similar with one of my ex partners that I've been with for years. He took a job in London so he moved there. So I used to go back and forth for a while before I moved there for a little bit. But I also had a really good. One of my best friends at the time lived in London. She was single. So when we used to go out she used to, because she was an actress. She used to get on these promote promotion tables where you get all your drinks for free, and she used to joke and say, oh, I'll work the tables like I get the free drinks, like a joke. So I was carrying out one night with my then partner and a group of his friends that I'd never met. We were all in couples bar one person and I jokingly said to this girl oh, you're the only single person, you'll have to work the tables to get the free drinks. And it was a joke and the room just fell completely flat and my boyfriend went. That's really not appropriate. Why did you just say that?
Speaker 3:But I left as I said it and everyone was just staring at me and I said it was only a joke and she went. I think that's really disrespectful to say that to me. I've never, met any of them before and then I had to go out on a night out with them. So awkward and it's something so small and significant, you know replays in my head.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, All that awful. Do you think about it all the time? I'm like oh Louise, why don't you do that? For Because you've got friends you can say things like that too and really kind of.
Speaker 3:I just thought it was funny, but clearly nobody else did, and I was mortified and I was like oh yeah, maybe you shouldn't have said that.
Speaker 2:I still want to do this daydo.
Speaker 1:You can say that back I thought it was quite funny. I'm so glad you could hear that because there have been so many times in my life where I have said a quick. I'm quite quick-humoured and I'll just say the funny thing that pops into my head, which is, I mean, 99% of the time, inappropriate, but I can't. It's as if you can't control it. And then some guy comes out and I think oh my God, I can't take it back.
Speaker 3:It's not verbal diarrhea, isn't it? You can't stop it.
Speaker 2:But almost a bit like being a bit of a rebel as well. Sometimes you think, oh, just throw it in there, but you will judge. Do you know what I mean when you're feeling like you don't fit in, or yeah?
Speaker 1:To just point the obvious out.
Speaker 2:and then, so what?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's definitely a bit betrayed.
Speaker 3:Definitely, if I'm in one of those moods where I'm just a bit agitated, I'll just chuck out whatever's in my mouth and not care about the consequence that day. But the next day I'll get up and be like oh my God, why did I do that? You went back in care mode. Why did I say that yesterday? I definitely upset that person. I really need to say sorry, but I'm not going to because I know I'm just making it worse. Give it more attention.
Speaker 1:That kind of leads me on to something else I wanted to ask you about is do you feel as if sometimes you're obviously ADHD and autism? There are a lot of overlaps, but sometimes they are like complete opposites. My daughter has autism and ADHD, and I can imagine, because she very much likes her routines. She's very set in her ways for some things and it's very upsetting for her if plans change. However, I'm very impulsive. I don't like to plan too far ahead in advance, especially in terms of social events, because there's a high probability I'll get myself really anxious about it and cancel. So I just wonder what do you find conflicting, if anything, between your two?
Speaker 3:Yes. So that's definitely a conflicting thing for me. I like to have that then plans and know what I'm doing and plan ahead. So I'll always be planning ahead with friends. But then, when it gets to the event, I'm like, no, I can't do this now. This was ridiculous. Why did I plan ahead? But then I do have this really strong impulsive nature about me that I'll just go and do something without thinking about the consequence of it, and then I do think whether it is still an ADHD trait or autism, then I'll be thinking afterwards oh my God, what did I do that for? And then it'll play on my mind and it'll play on my mind and it will escalate and it'll get bigger. So that's certainly a yeah, the pull and tug between needing that routine and needing that structure, but at the same time wanting to be impulsive and reckless and like rebel against the routine structure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely that. That's a big pull for me, but I think there's yeah, I think there's probably the biggest one. I would notice that causes me the most issues in battling against. There's lots of other ones in terms of and I know it's a huge, so autistic people normally have this hobby, don't they? That they'll have for the rest, of their lives.
Speaker 3:Yeah, whereas my special interests probably very much lean towards the ADHD side of things, where they'll be intense for about three days. So I've read Matthew McConaughey's book a couple of weekends ago Now, all of a sudden got an obsession with him and downloaded True Detective and watched it all in like a day and then like, oh my God, I'm going to watch this film. And did you know this? And before I know it, I know his whole life story because I've gone on the internet and googled everything and watched every video, and I do that all the time with things.
Speaker 3:But yeah, hobbies for me are intense, intense for a period of time, and I will waste, become impulsive with money. Money is a big issue for me. It always has been. My whole life I've had got myself into debt and all sorts of things. But I'll pick up a new hobby and be like, yeah, this is what I'm going to do and I'm going to really, really put my all into this and spend loads of money on it, and three days later the stuff's just sat in the cupboard or it never even comes out the box because by the time it's been delivered. I've gone past that now.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We are there with you. Oh my gosh, absolutely. Give me an example. What have your hobbies been? Mines have included a crochet, macrami, upcycling furniture, running, swimming, those sorts of things, and I do them for a set amount of time. And then I wake up one day and go ah, what am I going to learn now?
Speaker 3:So Journal Lynn's probably been the most recent one. I'm going to journal because this is because my uni mentor said Journal Lynn will be really good for you, I think.
Speaker 3:So I bought like a really posh journal book that I got stories in so you put your goals in each day. That's never even been filled in, it's sat on the side. Then I bought like different types of notebooks in case I fancy a different, cooler notebook each day. I think I wrote one page in one of them. Oh my God, notebooks are my thing as well.
Speaker 1:But I have a shelf full of notebooks and it's not a notebook itself.
Speaker 1:That gives me the dopamine. It's buying the notebook and just touching the notebook. And then I'm coming through the post yes, I come to use it for something like uni. And then I'm sat there going, ah, I don't know what's a notebook to choose, because that notebook's too good for that. That's not like a uni type notebook. That's more for like journaling or writing very important things in. What important things I'm writing in it, I don't know. But I then become very selective and then I end up just using scrap bits of paper because I think I don't want to touch my nice notebooks because they're so much more valuable than any old shopping list.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm exactly saying pilates was something I was going to do once because I saw the Kardashians doing it and thought, oh my God, her body looks amazing.
Speaker 3:And I thought, after about two weeks of doing it when it wasn't working, I just get up on it. After downloading and paying for all the pilates apps and buying the subscriptions and Apple Fitness and everything else, that one's gone out the window. I've paid for the gym subscriptions where I've signed up for a year and then been once, and then you get that ADHD tax right when, even though you don't need to cancel it, and now I don't want to because I don't want to ring up and have the conversation. So in fact I'll just keep paying for it for the rest of my life because there's no way I'm ever going to cancel it.
Speaker 2:The ADHD tax, isn't it? One of our guests was speaking about that yesterday. The ADHD tax, it's endless, isn't it? I thought, frankly, I didn't go all the way, but I thought I'm going to start doing spin, you know, like cycling, spinning, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And you can buy those bikes for the house I'll get a peloton.
Speaker 2:This was like this was well before. They were even like that Well now, thankfully, I didn't go quite that far, but I did buy one Expensive, and then I just never used it and sold it. It's yeah, yeah, they are really expensive, and it's that sense of yeah, I've got to do this now because this is going to be the thing that will transform me. This is going to be the catalyst.
Speaker 1:This is going to change my life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, max, this is.
Speaker 1:Max, he's just come in to say stop swearing, because obviously I never took notice of the first warning that the children gave me. So, yeah, I'll stop from now on. Ok, so tell us, would you say, that you've experienced rejection sensors or sensitive dysphoria?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:And how has that manifested for you?
Speaker 3:So for lean off at work, I can take it. So if I get it at work I'll take it. I'll come home and cry about it. But it's a bone of contention in my relationship with my other half because he always says I cannot give you feedback about anything in any way without you getting really defensive, really upset, a rage on you and thinking that you want to break up with him.
Speaker 1:He doesn't love you anymore at all because he said yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, we can have a little argument and he'll go to work and then I'll be texting him saying or, if he doesn't respond to my text, I'll then be like do you want to break up? We've been together nearly eight years and we've got a child.
Speaker 2:Do you want?
Speaker 3:to break up. Is that why you're not responding to me and I'm like no, I'm just busy at work, I'll speak to you when you get home and then I've like well, what to speak to when you get home?
Speaker 2:Does that mean you?
Speaker 3:want to have a proper conversation. Like, do you want to say it's ridiculous? But yeah, I'm really really sensitive to any feedback, even if it might not even be that bad. But in my mind you're giving me a critique about something and you're getting into trouble that you're not perfect something.
Speaker 2:It's just beefed criticism, isn't it? And I think that's where the people pleasing comes from. It's that avoid the discomfort of being criticised or rejected. So I'll just please constantly. I mean, it's his hard work, isn't it? It's exhausting.
Speaker 1:I was talking last night about him. So my husband is a clowns around quite a lot Like. He's got a very good sense of humour, but he loves to wind me up. And I remember when we were young. Us we've been together for a long time. I met him when I was 15.
Speaker 1:Now I remember him singing in his bedroom along to a song and he obviously was just having a bit of a high plus bell and then he was pretending that he was singing to me. But then he started singing to the bin. Look the waste paper basket in his room. And I remember being raging. I was so jealous that he was. I was like, oh, you're obviously pretending that's another girl, but it was the bin.
Speaker 1:And I remember getting into this and we were talking about that last night, because there's a lot of things you know, as it does when you get your diagnosis. Not everything clicks into place straight away, but when you're reflecting you think, oh, actually remember that night that you were singing to the bin and I was really upset because I thought you were singing to another girl, but actually it was just the bin and then it escalated into a whole thing. You obviously don't love me anymore because you're singing to the bin. I mean, he's singing to the bin and I was Can we just put that into perspective for a minute Singing to the bin. I don't know, I don't know who's getting the bigger problem here, can I?
Speaker 2:He's the one who's trying to. I think it's equal.
Speaker 1:I think it's really equal. Oh, I think it's equal. Ok, listen, upset heartbroken because I think he wants to break up with me, because he loves the bin more than me.
Speaker 2:Help I married a bin. Was it nice, Ben? Was it one of those ones that it was like a kind?
Speaker 1:of silvery you know kind of metal. Did it have been juiced in it? No, it was empty. It would just have like a bin liner and a white bin liner. Definitely not as attractive as me, but LAUGHTER, oh dearie me, Right? Oh, John, it's the bin. It's time to go. Oh, yeah, OK, so the children are in charge today. Mum stops waiting. Now it's time to go. I wanted to.
Speaker 1:We asked this question of all our guests. I mean, just a minute, shall I there you go? Ok? Yeah, you should get changed. This is my daughter here now, wrapped up in a blanket. She stood there and she looks like Wazzle Gummidge when she puts up in the moment Her heels Right. Go and get ready, then. What would be your advice to Do? You want to just come in and host it instead? Shh, what would be your advice to anybody out there who thinks that they have ADHD but say they're having to wait for years for an assessment A year? A fellow female, somebody who's worried about their daughter but who thought what would be your advice to help them mitigate that?
Speaker 3:So can only. Yeah, I think, just judging on the journey I've been on the last two years is don't always rely on the doctors. Do your research, but don't take the first thing that you find on the internet. Really research, really speak to people, Get a feel for what you think it might be, but also be open to understanding that it might be something different. So, like with me, thought it was bipolar, it turns out to be something different. Just be open about it, explore and really take yourself on that journey. Don't rely on a doctor to give that to you.
Speaker 3:You know, with my diagnosis I've been told that that's it, but I've been left on my own and actually I've found it more freeing to do my own research and understand that for myself. But I think my I would also say don't be afraid to speak out. Whilst people do think there is a stigma, there's actually a lot of people out there that will support you and when you find that correct community, that can be more freeing and more important than the actual diagnosis itself. Find your community, find your people and lean on them and you'll actually You'll find friends for life. You might not have fitted in life before, but when you find that community of people. That's the place where you find a fit in life and that will be more sense of a support than any diagnosis that you can probably ever receive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, thank you. I think that's really important. Lovely, I'd agree with that.
Speaker 2:My questions usually. Well, my question is what's the most? Well, we did it by week the last time. So what's the most ADHD thing you may have done this week, so mine? I thought it was one thing, but then last night realized it was actually another. I bought, impulsively, bought a washing up bowl, which I don't think Impulsively, it's not like I jumped out of an airplane, is it A washing up bowl? A washing up bowl to go in my kitchen sink?
Speaker 1:Like a basin, like a plastic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it doesn't fit, just put it in, it's just so. I've just got it there just on an angle, just fucking useless, basically. And when I do things like that, it oh sorry, I'm sorry. When I do things like that, it leads me straight back to oh, no one else would do that. I bet everyone else has got perfect bowls that fit in those things. Oh my God, oh my God, it won't even fit in the utility sink, but I wedged it in. You're well going for it. I like to do that.
Speaker 3:Mine would be very random and it's not a purchase, and if any of my work colleagues from the office are listening to this, they will laugh. So I was sat at my desk and just had an absolute burst of ADHD energy, pushed my chair back in the chair and just lifted my legs up and just started swinging myself round in the chair while everyone else is in the office really quietly, and my colleague John, who sits up and looks up, and went.
Speaker 3:That's actually, I think, one of the coolest things I've ever seen somebody do so. Then I just proceeded to keep doing it in the middle of the office while everyone's in meetings and working, and then just stopped and went to the office.
Speaker 2:I walked off like the most normal thing.
Speaker 3:But these impulsive, just random behaviors that just regularly happen. I'll do the most random and that's probably the most ADHD thing for me, just random kind of outburst of things. But yeah, it was quite funny. It's now become a bit of a joke in the office about chess being in activities and games and yeah, it was very random it sounds like a colleague.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:It's very inclusive, just that it's a non-issue, which is very yeah it's very much as if the ADHD or autistic day today situation sometimes, which I love. It's nice, it's open. What's your picture today?
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. Well, it's been lovely chatting to you, jade, and good luck this afternoon with your nice introduction. Thank you, yeah. What is the name of the organisation? Again, jack.
Speaker 3:Jack J-A-Q. A-a-q.
Speaker 1:And what does that stand for? Again, just ask a question. Just ask a question, perfect. I'm going to look that up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you'll love it. It's great and, jade, stay in touch. Let us know how everything's going. If you're likely to get an assessment for the ADHD anytime soon, I'll definitely keep you posted. It would be great, and we'd love to have you back on at some point and hear how you're getting on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely, you have really enjoyed it. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much.