Get ready to be inspired by the story of Amy Jayne Needham, a woman who has overcome the challenges of her ADHD to excel in her career and personal life. Amy shares her journey of growing up with ADHD, which included moments of disruption and energetic behaviour but also showcased her intelligence.
Amy walks us through her daily life with ADHD, revealing how she navigates her work, studies, and responsibilities. Despite the challenges, she employs unique strategies to stay on top of her studies, and she is supported by her line manager and team at work. She also sheds light on her experience with the UK-based Right to Choose system and the frustrating wait times for ADHD assessments. You'll be intrigued to hear about Amy's attempt to break a Guinness World Record for one-handed clapping - an amusing anecdote that illustrates her spirited personality!
We delve into Amy's struggles, including her issues with organisation, her recent thyroid problem, and her (and her partner’s) lack of tidiness. Hear how these factors affect her and how she manages them. Amy also opens up about her difficulties in maintaining friendships. She shares how her changing interests and love for animals have become a coping strategy. By the end of this episode, you'll come away with a profound understanding of what it's like to live with ADHD and insight into the strategies that have helped Amy and may inspire you too. Tune in and connect with Amy's unique story - it's an episode not to be missed!
Outro
This is a special edition episode recorded from a webinar.
Get ready to be inspired by the story of Amy Jayne Needham, a woman who has overcome the challenges of her ADHD to excel in her career and personal life. Amy shares her journey of growing up with ADHD, which included moments of disruption and energetic behaviour but also showcased her intelligence.
Amy walks us through her daily life with ADHD, revealing how she navigates her work, studies, and responsibilities. Despite the challenges, she employs unique strategies to stay on top of her studies, and she is supported by her line manager and team at work. She also sheds light on her experience with the UK-based Right to Choose system and the frustrating wait times for ADHD assessments. You'll be intrigued to hear about Amy's attempt to break a Guinness World Record for one-handed clapping - an amusing anecdote that illustrates her spirited personality!
We delve into Amy's struggles, including her issues with organisation, her recent thyroid problem, and her (and her partner’s) lack of tidiness. Hear how these factors affect her and how she manages them. Amy also opens up about her difficulties in maintaining friendships. She shares how her changing interests and love for animals have become a coping strategy. By the end of this episode, you'll come away with a profound understanding of what it's like to live with ADHD and insight into the strategies that have helped Amy and may inspire you too. Tune in and connect with Amy's unique story - it's an episode not to be missed!
Outro
This is a special edition episode recorded from a webinar.
Good afternoon everybody. It is what day? Is it Friday afternoon? Oh, it's my birthday, the 28th of July, so happy birthday. I am celebrating myself today, and every other day for that matter. So I'm Laura and I am the ADHD midwife, and I am here today with my co-host, louise Brady, who is a mental health nurse. Hello Louise, how are you today?
Speaker 2:Hello, I'm good. I'm actually quite good today, yeah.
Speaker 1:From yesterday and the day before.
Speaker 2:We're taking braids out today. My daughter's got box braids, so it's braid taking out day. You'd think it'd be braid taking out hour, but it's not today. So, it's actually quite, it's actually quite mindful. You know, just doing that something with your hands constantly and it's quite like they do it, doesn't?
Speaker 1:I'll just go to the hairdresser, no idea where I take it out.
Speaker 2:yeah, but it's like the power of having something that's just keeping you going. Yeah, that repetitive, yeah, yeah, but I'll get bored of it soon, don't worry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let her take the rest of it also.
Speaker 2:Obviously yeah.
Speaker 1:So we are very excited to introduce the lovely Amy Jean Needham, who is our guest today on the podcast, and I'm just going to hand over to her and say welcome, amy Jean. It's lovely to meet you and we've had sort of brief conversations back and forth over LinkedIn, but it's lovely to see you in person and we would just love to know more about you and, yeah, what you're about, how you came to be diagnosed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, now, it's lovely to meet you both and thank you for having me on your podcast as well. So, yeah, I guess for me and I've known all my life that I have ADHD and my mum kind of knew from being very young I guess I presented more as, when you think, a stereotypical boy. I was like this little child that would scream, that would throw temper tantrums in the shopping centre, I'd have a meltdown, I just could not sit still and my mom and I've got an older sister and my mom was like yep, you're nothing like your sister. Now I think from kind of early on that my mum and like my family knew that there was probably something a little bit different, and so she, I think I went to go and see a pediatrician or something when I was really young and they were wasn't kind of quite sure what it was. I mean, we're talking, obviously I'm 31, so like 26 years ago, when my mum went to go and see somebody, and especially with who been a girl, it was kind of like oh, we're not quite sure what's wrong with this child, it's a little bit different.
Speaker 3:And and my mom said that they suggested medication or something to kind of like calm me down or something, and my mom was like no, like we're not having anything like that.
Speaker 3:She's like she's a young child. So she sought support from her friend who was a teacher but she taught in like pupil referral unit so she kind of specialised in children that had behavioural difficulties and so she had a lot of support. So up until the age of kind of then around 14, I was kind of knew that I was a little bit different and everyone was like oh god, amy, it's got ADHD, she just cannot sit still like she is like a whirlwind and stuff like that. So yeah, I kind of just had a lot of behavioural support and up until the age of 14 I kept really busy, did lots of sports and things like that and and then at school obviously the teachers noticed that I was really disruptive and I'd be made to sit on my own because I would disrupt the other pupils and just like how Amy, and which we were disruptive, like chatty or just really chatty and well, yeah, wanting to talk to people around, we're kind of like shouting out and things like that.
Speaker 3:So my teacher was like we had like desk where he was like two to a table so in kind of in line, so like I'd sit on one and not have anyone sat next to me because it's like you will not let them do any work.
Speaker 1:I'd love for you. That must have been. I mean that obviously, looking back at it now you think that's awful, but you know at the time it's what you could do to manage it in the classroom. I can imagine it must have been yeah, I guess as well.
Speaker 3:I still did not stop me talking. It was like whoever's in front of me, whoever's behind me, so some of my teachers would make me sit near the front. So it's like come on, like then they could like a closer to me, like come on, you need to do your work and it's.
Speaker 3:And because I was quite bright at school, it was like she's bright but like disruptive and away with the fear is like if she just concentrate and oh god, that's so common we so often so I had like an, an assessment around the age of 14 and they kind of fed back to the school and then, as a result, I don't think the school knew what to do because I wasn't. I was in top set. So they was like, well, she doesn't need a TA. They and I had like this mentor person and she was like I don't know what to do because you're not struggling like in terms of education, because she's still managing to kind of get good grades and things like that. So I don't think they knew what to do as such, and it was just kind of the teachers were then a bit more aware of trying to kind of like, I guess, not be so like harsh. It's like there is a reason why I'm kind of chatting disruptive. It's not because I don't care, it's not because I want to disrupt other people, it's just that I'm, I mean, full of energy and I just don't know how to direct that.
Speaker 3:And so then, kind of throughout school, I kind of wasn't really sure and it was when I was going to university, believe or not. It was my PE teacher was like aiming, you have dyslexia. And I'm like, oh, my spelling is terrible. And he's like if you go into uni you need a full assessment, you need everything done properly because you're gonna need the support.
Speaker 3:So I had I think it was, I don't know how I applied it was through the disabled students allowance and they did a full dyslexia assessment and I got a diagnosis of dyslexia and they suggested an ADHD assessment and then when I was at university I had an assessment through the NHS and that's with the diagnosis that I got and I used to.
Speaker 3:I think I was around 19 when I had like a formal sort of NHS diagnosis and I guess from then, like I've like to say, I've always sort of knew but I've never really shared that with anybody and I especially working within like forensic mental health care, and I think it was just this view that I thought people would be like oh, if you have ADHD, you're going to do something which is impulsive, you can't work in a forensic environment, and so I had like all these negative sort of perceptions what people would think of me. So I guess, up until probably, I'd say, about a year or so ago, I just did not tell anybody I had ADHD and just kind of yeah, just pretended it wasn't there.
Speaker 2:That's really interesting, amy, because there's that sense of shame around it and because you were diagnosed when you were you know young. What 19 I mean. Ideally it would have been younger, but comparatively to lots of women now, it's a young age, isn't it? And I was quite interested then to hear what, how that impacted you. Did it help? You had a diagnosis, did it not? But talking about you speak sorry, listening to you talk about working in forensic psychiatry and just working in psychiatry as a whole, I think we can sometimes be more judgmental than most, which is ironic, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I when I was so I'm on the forensic psychology doctorate, but before then I worked in different posts as an assistant psychologist and I actually worked on Core Calms, which was the ADHD assessment pathway. So I was involved with ADHD assessments and one of the managers say he was like the lead for the pathway. He was like you have got ADHD, like, and he's like I've got ADHD as well, and I was like yeah, I do actually, and which was really positive. But then I was speaking with one of the nurses and she was so lovely but she just said, oh, I've not really worked with anyone with ADHD except in prison, and I'm like I don't know how to take that. Like she didn't mean it in a nasty way.
Speaker 3:It was just like I've never worked with somebody that has ADHD and I'm like okay, I think it just I that isn't spoken about, isn't isn't really known and within I don't know within our job as such. But what are the?
Speaker 2:negative connotations that you imagined would come from, from kind of being open about it.
Speaker 3:I really thought people like wouldn't want to employ me just because it was yeah, they were like we don't want somebody that's gonna do something impulsive or he's not gonna think about what they're doing, or it's not gonna be able to write reports or things like that. So I just thought that they would see it as such a negative thing. But you know what? So where I am now is the first place.
Speaker 3:I've been very open with all my team that I have ADHD and it's completely opposite. And yeah, my, so I work in a big team. There's eight of us and my line manager she's so supportive, she will always check in is like is there anything I can do in terms of reason, of adjustments, and like, if there's anything, she will kind of see if there's something they can do to support. And we had like this. So we have like quite regular meetings as a team and we did a bit of a presentation, me and my line manager she does a lot of private work around ADHD and we kind of did a presentation for the rest of the people in my team because, as well, I think it's sometimes our presentations can be misunderstood and it can be. It can be seen as that we don't care, or that we've not prepared, or you know, I mean we just yeah and it's just not.
Speaker 3:That, that's all. And I think, especially when so I do a lot of joint working with other people within my team, and obviously that my, my colleagues now are aware, but I think until then it could be like, oh, like it was Amy's turn to prep, why she forgot the materials, like I should just not done the stuff. And now they're like, oh, have we got everything? But I guess it's that view if you don't know it can be perceived in a negative way absolutely, absolutely, which I think you know.
Speaker 1:I think it seems to be growing momentum now that people are becoming more and more honest about it, because, you know, we're just sick of the oppression and I think it's really important that you speak quite openly, especially in professions like yours and in terms of your doctorate that you're doing, and explain how that works, like is there a lot of studying and research and and how do you, how do you manage that? What strategies have you got that are helpful?
Speaker 3:there is a lot of research so and there's different ways to qualify in forensic psychology, and so I chose the doctorate route and partially because we have like this internal view that we have to do the thing where we think is the best route and there is not a better route as such.
Speaker 3:But I was like this route, I will get the title doctor, then people will think that I'm good, this is a level where people will then respect me and so, yeah, I picked the doctorate route and so as part of that I do like the placement sort of stuff with the clinical practice, and then a large part of it is research. I don't feel like I'm an academic person. I kind of struggle with research, but we're getting there and I think for me I found it incredibly difficult and so I never take a medication for ADHD. I'd always kind of manage with behavioral strategies and like having a routine sort of keeping myself busy, stuff like that, to make sure that I'm still getting things done. But I just I was working, I'm working full-time and I'm studying, and so I mean I finished all the placement stuff, but through my doctorate and I was actually working on placement, which was an employment, so I was working five days. Then I was doing research and then having to write placement stuff and a placement diary.
Speaker 3:I was just so overwhelmed and I mean it is a lot to do anyway if you don't have ADHD and I, just I I wasn't coping, so I wasn't able to then do my research and I was getting to the weekends. I'll just so burnt out and that's kind of why I looked at medication and and for university my supervisor has been really supportive and so I have a learning and support contract, so obviously stated students that have disabilities, things like that, and they have like a support package sort of thing put in place. So I think it's and I'm not kind of sure what all other things are but this support with kind of like reading through stuff there is. I didn't really seek any of that support and I think the first part of my course as well, and I wanted to kind of be like I'm the same as everybody else, nobody else on the course I can do the same.
Speaker 3:So I didn't have any support for three years, kind of my own fault as well, because I didn't kind of go and seek that support and but so now I'm using then extension because I just couldn't get everything done and so my hand in date was March and so I've got an extension until September, but just I couldn't get everything done and I was just so overwhelmed. So it has been really hard, kind of juggling everything and then just it's the chronic overwhelm that we kind of get ourselves into and at the end of the day I just then wouldn't have the energy to do work or do uni work.
Speaker 2:You sound like a real perfectionist as well. Would that be accurate? Am I walking up the right tree? Yeah, that sense of I didn't need any adjustments. But now you know, now you've had to have this, this extension, which you know everyone's perspectives are different, but I'm thinking an extension Like I would always get extensions prior to having a having a diagnosis and be really pleased that I got got it.
Speaker 3:Are there any other adjustments that you found helpful and I guess as well, partly because I kind of wasn't pushing the university Like my case wasn't really reviewed as such. So there is a lot of other adjustments for kind of. So we have Viva examinations, so we kind of submit a thesis and then it's sent off to external and then it's examined by them and then we have like a it's kind of like a interview sort of thing, where we have to defend our thesis and there is a lot of reasonable adjustments that should have been put in place, which wasn't, and so I've only found that out now. So they're going to be in place.
Speaker 3:My research by the but there is things like in terms of not asking multiple questions, sort of asking one thing at a time, and and all the stuff that can be sent to the examiner, which is really helpful because and because I'm like as well do when people give you lots of information I'm trying to remember it all, and then I'm not going to remember everything that they've said. And if they ask me like why have you done this and have you done this because of that and that and that, and I'm like I don't know, I don't know, I don't know why?
Speaker 1:I don't know yeah.
Speaker 3:So that should be in place, my next five. So hopefully that that will be helpful, I guess as well. It's just it's that awareness as well that you know. I mean that there is like an additional learning need that obviously it's been there whilst I've been doing my work as well. I guess it's just the awareness for the examiner.
Speaker 2:There's no arguments to be had. I don't know if I'm thinking too generally about this. The way that those of us who are neurodiverse, who have ADHD, autism, things like that, that it almost feels like we just landed in a world that was made for the other, the other People, majority of the population, which makes sense, the other species, which makes sense, but it but it naturally then just makes us feel that we just can't do it as well, as is that person, whereas I don't feel like it is that. I mean, I probably think that about myself, but when I listen to the people, I think no, it's just about looking at things differently, adjusting, isn't it, and thinking about how you're communicating with people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just in. I've done a lot of reading around the different learning styles. You know the learning style yeah.
Speaker 1:And actually the accommodations that you can make for somebody who is neurodivergent actually are going to benefit neurotypical people as well. Yeah, I think we need to look at why things are set up the way they are set up, because they're not designed to get the best out of you, are they, whether you're neurotypical or neurodivergent, like a situation like that where you're sat there, amy, having to defend your thesis. I would be sat there thinking I don't know, I don't look, I would not remember.
Speaker 2:I just say read it. Can I just read it?
Speaker 1:No, I've got it all. It's tricky. So I'm in. I'm about to start my dissertation for my Masters in Perinatal Mental Health and obviously now I've alerted the university that I have ADHD and they have sent me a new learning contract through, which is fabulous.
Speaker 1:But it also gave me a sense of grief for the previous two years, plus the three years before that, plus all the time that I've done at school that had you know, I wouldn't have made so many silly mistakes or I would have been given an allowance for those, because you know slow processing skills and spelling mistakes, all those types of things.
Speaker 1:And now you know they're going to be much more lenient on that when they're looking at my academic work which is great, but also I feel a bit of it's almost as if you're using your chance card in monopoly a bit, let's say, oh, but I got to pass for this, as if you're I don't know cheating stuff out because you're making it easier for yourself because they'll be more lenient on you because you're disabled. I mean, that's just my own perception, but I'm certainly glad to use it because it makes my life easier and actually, if that's where it feels like a neurotypical person to do their work, just generally, you know, then, while that really opens my eyes to how it's been for me to achieve the things I've achieved, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's the thing. So I have a lot of friends, obviously, that are doing similar sort of training routes and I will ask them, like do you know what you're doing your work? Like are you able to sit down and like actually do your work? And they're like, oh yeah, I can sit down, I'll do like an hour. I'll get up and have it make a cup of tea and I'm like, oh, can you not do that? I was like, no, I'll sit down, I'll spend five minutes. I'm like, oh, my God, I don't want to do this.
Speaker 3:I'll write something and then I'll be like, oh, I'm going to check this on my phone, oh, I'll do this, and I'm like it's really hard to sit for half an hour. I mean the medication has helped with that. But I was like this is your normal. I can't like that's amazing. I wish I could sit down and do that on my weekend.
Speaker 2:But you're really good at the clinical stuff, though I bet not that you're not good at the academic, but I bet you really enjoy sitting down face to face with patients going through that kind of dialogue. Does that feel really natural to you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's the part of the job that I love. I've kind of been with the patients, kind of dropping into groups, going on to the ward and stuff like that. And yeah, because that's one of the things as well. With my line manager, you said one of your strengths is you get on so well with the patients and you're just so kind and so caring and you're able to build that therapeutic rapport. And I tend to work with some of the more difficult patients because I'm like, yes, I'm going to work with them, yeah. So sometimes which people are like they're quite challenging, I'm like, yes, I'll work with that one.
Speaker 2:Do you generally get quite good feedback? It's hard, isn't it in forensic? Yeah, I mean, you have to get like a box of chocolates afterwards. Thanks for that.
Speaker 1:Can I just ask, though, just to clarify, because I'm not 100% clear, what forensic psychology looks like? Is that in terms of like prisoners, or, obviously, I just think about CSI.
Speaker 3:So I work in a secure hospital. So the patients that I work with they're either they've come either through the court system, so some of them do have forensic histories and offending, some have just had a history of violence it could be through mental health difficulties, so then they were managed within a secure hospital. So all the patients that I work with are sectioned under the Mental Health Act and a lot of them do have or present with quite difficult or challenging behaviors.
Speaker 2:Okay, I worked in forensics earlier on in my career, amy, and I don't know how much it's changed, but really kind of unique environment I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah it is.
Speaker 2:I think now how do they do that? But maybe it's the sense of that fast-paced. Sometimes it's not that fast-paced. I don't think secure units are there. Sometimes people could be there for a long time and things can be quite stable for them. But that sense of risk all the time and the bond then you have with colleagues is quite I find that quite unique. Having experienced that early on in my career, I haven't really experienced that since in any other settings.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it definitely is a unique environment. I think you either really love working in that environment or it's just something which, yeah, I think you either love it or you hate it, and I think there is something about. There is a lot of the stuff which is the same, so like we have war grounds the same days, we see patients on the same days and stuff like that, but I think the environment in itself is quite chaotic. So there's lots of changes. Sometimes, obviously, patients run well. There's lots of things then happening on the ward. It's hard to explain. It's stable but also chaotic at the same time, and I think that is kind of what I think draws me to that environment.
Speaker 2:You can be one moment away from a real violent outburst, can you? Particularly if you think about some of the index fences of the patients or the behaviours they display, it can be quite challenging and I find that quite challenging. But I think because I was younger I was a bit going ho about it. Now I'd be absolutely probably quite bad at it.
Speaker 1:I wanted to ask Amy about. So obviously you've started the medication now and you find that helpful in terms of your academic work. Have you noticed a difference in your life, like kind of your personal life, your home life, in terms of your executive function and all those kind of things? What differences do you see there that you didn't realise, maybe that you're struggling with before?
Speaker 3:My partner will say you've seen no difference at all. He'll be like I don't know why you're taking medication, I've not seen any difference. But he doesn't like the idea of any medication anyway. So I think he's probably a biased view. My mum noticed a difference. She'll be like you've not taken medication today. I'll probably be more sort of like hyperactive or over the top. I'm quite a hyperactive presentation anyway. So she'll be like hmm, you've not taken medication today, have you? I'm revealing. I'm revealing. Yeah, I guess for me it's. I still struggle with a lot of things At the moment. I try and tide it and be organized throughout the week, which it doesn't help. My partner's not a tidy person either. So I get to that weekend. I'm like I'm gonna kill you that's the mess.
Speaker 3:So I think I probably a bit more motivated to keep on top of things, but I still do struggle. And then when I'm looking at all the mess in my house, I've got family that are coming and I need to clean the back bedroom and so all that sort of stuff is still kind of there. I guess one thing I have noticed is my thoughts are a bit slower in terms of I would have lots of things going off at once and I would struggle to concentrate on one thing. So I'd be doing something and they'd be like, oh, I've not done this. Oh, thinking about that, I feel like it's slower, that I can just if I'm doing one thing, I can focus on it rather than only be able to do that. If I was like hyper-focusing on something like the game yeah.
Speaker 3:I've noticed as well that I don't feel so much like chronic sort of burnout. So I work quite long hours, so I work four days, but I work 10 hours and I commute to work. So I leave at like seven in the morning, get back at seven at night. So when I get back I was literally I'd get on the sofa, I'd put a throw like around me, I'd have a cup of coffee and I'd be like no one talked for an hour because I just needed to then be deep-focusing, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Which I don't need to do that as much. I'll still get home and I'm tired. I'm like let me have a coffee before I need to do anything. But other than that I found that it's easier, Although I found out this week I've got problems with my thyroid. So I think as well that is contributing to some of the difficulties. That maybe because I was struggling a lot with uni and that's kind of why I sought out like medication, but it could have been as well like there's been thyroid issues as well, which has contributed to that as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a bit of a combination of things, yeah, and I like to ask this question because I'm nosy and I've just reminded myself that I'm twirling my hair like I always do. I've tried very hard to not do it at all yesterday on the podcast because I'm sick of looking back at the videos and being like, ooh, yeah. So I wondered if you another child, sorry, if you experience any bodied repetitive behaviors.
Speaker 3:So I wish you can't see some off camera. I tap in my legs, I fidget a lot, and at work as well. I used to kind of I guess with working in psychology we kind of tried to advocate for you can use like fiddle toys and things like that and that's okay. So I just have them on my lanyard now so, and I will take them into meetings, but I do when. If I'm doing anything where I have to sit down, I'm very always. I'm always very animated with my hands anyway, but when I'm listening I like to be like tapping my legs or kind of doing something. So, yeah, I constantly move. I twiddle my hair as well. I'm sad because my hair is really long, so I'll sit and I'll just like twiddle the bottom of my hair. My desk yeah, I do a lot of repetitive movements.
Speaker 1:I think sometimes I I mean I know I understand why I do it now but I think sometimes I look at myself and think, god, they must just think I'm like I don't know, like a right dummy, you know, like I just sat there like you can just imagine, do you know that kind of stereotype of typical kind of female ear head?
Speaker 3:And you can be sat there like oh yeah, like, do you think it's real?
Speaker 1:I know I just I cannot stop myself from. I mean, they're on my way again, but it's either that, or I pick my fingers Badly, like where they start bleeding, or if I've got an area of dry skin on my toe, I'm picking that and pick, pick, pick, pick.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm not the best. I kind of finger pick as well, and yeah.
Speaker 1:It's same and you don't. I mean, half the time you don't even realise you're doing it. But then it becomes interesting because there might be a particular kind of scabby bit on it and you're like I must get this bit off. I mean, there's absolutely no need. The other thing that I've noticed that I do is I always have to sit with my feet up. Yes, I do that. I have to put my legs under myself. I have to take my shoes in meetings, in restaurants, I will take my sandals off and sit with my legs crossed underneath the table. And for a long time I've thought God, that looks dead unprofessional. Obviously, as a midwife, I would go into handover in the morning and I remember somebody saying to me feet down off the seat please. And actually now I think why, oh? What harm am I causing by doing this? Look, it's just how I'm comfortable to sit.
Speaker 2:It's just been braided again, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It's that sense of you know, it was if I was getting into trouble at school or and I had my shoes on. I don't think Even if I did, though the sofas are wipeable in the hospital. So and the other thing I remember as well was getting into trouble for eating in handover. I never had time for my breakfast, I was just quickly eating I don't know some toast. There's a cereal bar or something I get into trouble for eating as well. I said it's not as if I'm sat in a labour room eating. I'm sat with the rest of the staff listening to what's going on in the ward for the day, and then I'm eating my breakfast just because I'm running the coos' teal, as Megan and Annie would say, running the.
Speaker 2:That's what I think it's like. There's these rules that have been made, but I don't understand them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I don't understand why I don't understand.
Speaker 2:It feels very Almost like not elitist, but there's a sense of righteousness about people who follow them. And maybe that's just my personal perception of me or how I feel, because I mean, I'm always, you know, getting braided for having a messy garden, or, you know, we haven't taken our cardboard to the tip quick enough for the neighbours, or Just look at me, don't take mine. And it's always made me feel really small, it's always made me feel really inadequate. It's always fed into that sense of I'm not like those people. And but actually, if you think about it, why, what does that mean? What does it really happen? Because you wait during handover? What? Look who's?
Speaker 1:that. Who's that? Who is that?
Speaker 2:But it's almost an opportunity, for it's an opportunity, I think, sometimes for individuals to enforce just a sense of superiority over you and I find that really it knows that me really badly and I know everybody has personal views about things and, like you, talk about swear words. And then we were joking at the beginning of this and I suppose this just goes down to values. It's probably got nothing to do with ADHD, but the sense of I mean I swear, I do swear. I don't necessarily swear in an aggressive way, unless you know I've hit my foot on something, or but sometimes just use it as a way of enunciating. It's just a form of language for me.
Speaker 1:I'm very mindful of things, though. Sorry, A form of humor as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it just kind of can emphasise things. And I've got children but, like my 10-year-old will say, why aren't we allowed to swear? What is that? And they really, I think kids really make you think. I don't know why. I don't really have a problem with it, but society seems to, and it's just another sense of. I feel like I've gone off on a huge tangent now, but but you know, but being quite restless and doing those things. Well, what's the?
Speaker 1:big deal. But then when you know, when someone checks you for that or someone gives you a row for sort of a rear feet up or eating or whatever in front of people, it feeds into that rejection, sensitivity and then that will upset me for the rest of the day and I'll be like, oh, she obviously thinks I'm just a shit midwife because I'm eating in handover. I mean, that has, those two things are completely un-raised. You know midwives have to eat and actually sure you would rather that I ate in handover than not eat at all for that day.
Speaker 2:But Amy, because you've known from quite a young age that you have ADHD, when you're displaying some of these behaviours, do you think, in comparison to those of us who are later diagnosed women in particular do you think you've been kinder to yourself in that sense?
Speaker 3:No, I am awful to myself quite a lot of the time. So, yeah, if I see something like I'd say at work, now I'm probably a lot more kind of myself than like probably I have been in the past. So, like I wear brightly coloured shirts, like I've got lots of things on my desk, I've got like brightly coloured stuff, whereas I think before I may be a bit like oh, I got like, why do people think I'm weird and stuff like that? And I think because I'm aware that I probably am different or things, I do things a little bit differently and then I've tried to kind of like mask a lot of that.
Speaker 3:So people will be like oh, like Amy's completely normal, there's nothing wrong with it and that's how it feels. I know there's nothing wrong with me or wrong with anybody. That is neurodivergent, but it's this sense that we feel that there is something just wrong. Like I feel like there's something wrong with me or I'm just not good enough or I need to do something better. And I think I've always felt like that and even like knowing from a young age that like I am a little bit different, it's not sort of made any sort of difference to me at all, I still kind of, I think, being a bit more open about it and kind of then checking in with myself has been a little bit easier, but yeah, I'm still not the kindest myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a real common trait, isn't it, I think, with lots of us.
Speaker 1:How did you find friendships and stuff at school? Were you kind of made to feel isolated because you were always asked to sit separately from the rest of the table, or was that reflected in the playground then? Or did you have a good group of friends that accepted you for the disruptive little?
Speaker 3:thing. Yeah, I did have like a good group of friends as such. I grew up in things like that. I think one of the things is I probably have struggled as such to kind of like hold on to friendship groups. So, like I spoke to people who were like oh, I still talk to such and such and I went to school with or did that, and I just don't. I seem to make friends with who I'm with at the time and then when we move on, like then you're friends with who you were there, but other than that I probably outside of work and stuff, I probably don't have that many friends. It's mainly the people who I'm with. I think, because of kind of like how we are sometimes with our personality being quite bubbly and very stuff, I think it just it helps to kind of like make friends, but then I think when we move on, like it's the same in those.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that's the thing and I think for me personally, I can't help but let the rejection sensitivity get in on that, because for me I feel as if I'm very present in friendships. You know, we talked about this yesterday, louise and I, with the guests we had on yesterday, and I find it really upsetting if you can see on WhatsApp that a friend has read your message with the two blue ticks and then you're kind of anticipating a reply and then there's no reply. But you can see that's been online a lot of times since then and they're still not taking the time to reply automatically. I think she doesn't like my friends with me anymore, she's not prioritising me in her life. So therefore I start automatically distancing myself, I find, and I start getting angry at that person. But that person doesn't know that I'm angry at them because to them they've not done anything wrong. They're just, you know, busy getting on with their lives and they haven't had the chance to sit down and text me back. But I automatically jump to the worst conclusion and start a kind of a barrage of abuse between me and this person in my mind.
Speaker 1:So the next time you see that person, I think you are automatically standoffish and you think, well, I'm annoyed at you, and you know I am, or do you? Because I've just created this whole scenario in my mind. So I know what you mean in terms of being friends with the people that you're kind of presently occupying their company, type thing. I mean, it's difficult, isn't it? Let me look at my wee sheet here to see what else Strategies and coping mechanisms have you used ADHD Coaching? No, I haven't. Now, do you think that would be something that you would consider? Or you don't feel that you're getting on with it, so you don't really.
Speaker 3:I think it can be helpful for a lot of people. I've been seeing a counsellor through university, which has been really helpful and just having it yeah, so I see her every month and it has been really helpful just to have someone as well to kind of talk through kind of what stuff that's going off in your head. Because I think some of the time, like we can, we feel like sometimes if something's gone wrong it's always our fault and I'll be like, oh well, this happened and this makes this. I feel really bad, that this has happened and that's not your fault and it's like okay. And I think just having that person to check in with you and kind of go through stuff that has been bothering you or things that have happened, has been really helpful. And as well with like with universities or something really struggling, just to have someone to kind of like it is okay, you are going to be stressed. It is a difficult time. So having external support whether it's either therapy, whether it's accounts coaching I think for me it's been really helpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I'm glad that you said that about thinking everything's your fault, because I do that as well all the time. You know, if I hear somebody say at work, oh there's been a complaint, I'm like must be a bit me, yeah. And then I start really worrying and I just say, hang on, this is going to be a change subject. But Louise, you were looking very therapeutically, you were relaxed back in your chair. Yeah, well, I'm thinking, oh good, she's getting into kind of mental health therapeutic mode there, the way she's not engaged in this.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think I was. I think you're overestimating me, but what I was thinking, interestingly, but coming from a psychology background, amy, I have spent some time looking at the nice guidelines for the treatment of age HD and the assessment and the whole kind of pathway and it feels very unclear. And unless I'm missing something I don't know if you're, I don't know if either of you have had a look or aware of them it felt really unclear to me what the non-pharmacological interventions are. Yeah, I thought, well, no, when I got diagnosed the, the clinician who diagnosed me said best practice is medication along with coaching. It was that it was the question about coaching and so I thought, all right, well, coaching must be great. It's, and I do. I do find coaching helpful. I mean, I spoke to the day about how I cry a lot with her. I don't know if that's what I'm paying her for, but and I do know that some, some NHS, just provide coaching, but it's just very vague. The non-pharmacological treatments, you know, and it just yeah. If you guys aren't aware of it, then I suppose you don't really have any answers for me.
Speaker 2:But if it is quite vague, then what? Why have we got the research to tell us what would be a good intervention. I think there's good research to suggest that CBT, once you are kind of on medication, is helpful because otherwise you've got the risk of not really following through or getting bored with the strategies and the techniques etc. But it's it's kind of, and the medication for me as well has been exceptionally helpful. But there's more because, as we talk about, all the time we have, we have difficulties with our executive functioning, but we also have extremely brilliant brains and obviously not talking about myself here, but typically we have very creative brains, very, you know, big thinkers, and and how do we, how do we kind of harness that? Is that this too big a question? Because I think that's why I was going with that little thought what if we don't know what the, what, the non-pharmacological intervention is? Where the fuck do we go from there Exactly? I mean, amy, you have a lot of work for me.
Speaker 3:Yes, I was looking. So the therapy that we provide in the hospital is DBT or Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. Yes, yes, well, because a lot of the patients that we work with have a personality disorder, personality difficulties and a lot of those things. So generally people have those difficulties with emotional regulation. They struggle with a lot of the similar sort of things that people with ADHD do. So I was doing a bit of research the other day and there's a growing evidence base for DBT being helpful for individuals with ADHD. Oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I can send you the paper through, actually, because I was reading it the other day and because it's what we obviously teach DBT skills and we do the skills with individual therapy. So I've done the DBT skills training and when we talk through the page, through this, with the patients, I'm like these skills are really helpful. I use a lot of these skills, so the things in there I can see why it is really helpful. So that was kind of like part of a bit of Googling. Is the evidence base. But yeah, this seems to be like a growing evidence base for DBT.
Speaker 2:yeah, that's interesting, and I imagine that the evidence for different interventions is going to just grow, isn't it, as the awareness becomes more apparent and we're learning more about how our minds work and how it's best to support that. Because, yeah, I mean, I do find coaching helpful, but I just couldn't find any kind of concrete clinical guidance for that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's the thing. I'm not sure neither, and it's only obviously, because this is the therapy that we use at work, and there's a lot of the time, you see, like they say medication with like therapeutic intervention, but then it's like well, what therapeutic intervention? Where is it?
Speaker 2:offered. Yeah, it feels like a box ticking exercise. We'll just get some psychology. Just, you know, when I break your mental health team, it's always we'll just refer them to psychology, because that's like a whole other world, right it's so many different interventions, so we're different therapies and things that people could benefit from.
Speaker 2:So maybe that's it it's just kind of funneling it down to a more specific treatment would be great, wouldn't it? It would just, I think, give us some clarity and, like you say, an evidence base but for how to support ourselves and those of us who are in the kind of therapy field to support those who are supporting double something. But yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? And do you find that, working in this field, working in the field of psychology, that, if you feel I've spoken about this before and we were talking to another mental healthness when we last week Sarah, who was really helpful, she's an ADHD assessor, prescriber and we just talked about the sense of feeling quite isolated as a professional working in mental health or psychology, because you know all these techniques, right, you know all these DBT techniques, you're sharing them with patients I imagine you're working with, as well as kind of learning and reading and all of those things.
Speaker 2:So do you feel that sense at times of isolation? Kind of well, who do I turn to? Because I kind of think I know quite a lot here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think it's like I know a lot of the things that I should be doing. And, yeah, I think there's that bit of you feel guilty then, because you're like, well, I'm telling patients that this is a helpful thing, so why am I still struggling? And I know it's helpful.
Speaker 2:No, I feel really hypocritical and actually I've become my duty, I've become really honest with a lot of my clients when I feel it's appropriate to say this isn't necessarily, you know, foolproof or I'm not saying this from a place that says that I do this 100% of the time, but X, y and Z, you know, because I think that element of being human in that therapeutic relationship is quite important. Yeah varying degrees, obviously, with who you're working with, but yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and because there's a lot of evidence base in terms of it doesn't matter so much what treatment intervention you do. Is that therapeutic relationship? Because if you're doing something, if you're doing a particular therapy, then the patient was like I don't trust you, I don't want to come to the session, they're not going to take in anything that you're trying to teach them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So many times people are like have you had any therapy previously? And yes, do you know what type? And no, because yeah, it's probably a bit too. It's a bit too sanitised at that point for some people.
Speaker 1:All very interesting. I feel completely lost about all the things that you're talking about.
Speaker 2:I'm just asking me what I was thinking about. I think you were quite confident that I'd come back and say I wasn't thinking about anything. I was particularly. I was just thinking. You know, why does wind feel cold or something I don't know? But on that one occasion I was thinking of something relevant.
Speaker 1:He did look very. I could imagine you sitting in a room giving someone therapy. Thanks your glasses and just so very.
Speaker 2:Got my shit together. Yeah, helping everyone.
Speaker 1:A woman in control To a lie? Have you experienced so for me cyclically, and there have been times when I've thought I think I am bipolar.
Speaker 2:I have.
Speaker 1:What that I am.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 3:I have.
Speaker 2:No, I have. I'm just saying I have as well, because it's been so, like, say, cyclical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and for me going into kind of a state of excuse me, boys, when I I, when I quit, Every time I'm trying to. Well, I'm not going to do that right now.
Speaker 2:I don't, I'm a little bastard To.
Speaker 1:Be that Any time I go into like a state of hyper fixation, you know, just learning a different skill or a different hobby. And then you just wake up one day and think, oh, I scrapped that. I cannot be asked to do that now. But you do things to death, don't you? I'm the same. I've realized that I'm the same listening to music. So if I find a song that I like, I listen to it, listen to it. Listen to it, write out the lyrics, learn that, learn that. Learn that. Learn that. I couldn't tell you who writes it or who sings it, but I can tell you every single word to the song. Have you had cycles of hyper fixation? Have you had some weird and wonderful, interesting hobbies?
Speaker 3:Yeah, my partner will tell you that he gets sick of me for like hobby hopping.
Speaker 1:So I Love it.
Speaker 3:I have no idea.
Speaker 1:That's Amy Street Mark hobby hobby. Yeah, it was hobby hopping.
Speaker 3:And then I say I've got a hobby graveyard. Oh, it's all that. I've got like a cupboard in my hallway which has got all the things in which I've done. They're good to die. Yeah, they've gone to die. So I've made bath bombs, I made bath salts, I made lots of like picture frames, photo frames, like box ones, lots of stuff inside I made. I was making like cushions and sewing cushions. What else have I done? Sell or is this for personal use To both? My mum's really creative, so she does a lot of craft phase. So I'll make lots of stuff and I'll give to my mum like to sell, and then I'll get bored of it and I'll do something else. And I've still got. Actually I did some painting the other day, so I've got painting and then I did that. One went really well. I'll do another one. It's still on the table because it wasn't going how I like it. Then I lost interest and it's been there for three weeks. But yeah, I do. Do you do that?
Speaker 1:Because sometimes, when I discover that I'm good at something, I think I'm just going to go and be a professional photographer now, because I think I can run. I do Almost grandiose, yeah, almost grandiose.
Speaker 2:How do you separate grandiose from just being ambitious? I think I cycled a couple of drawers, sets of drawers, and then I was like, oh, I'm going to go and do it. I'm amazing, maybe I could be an interior designer. And I've done that too. I'm bored of it.
Speaker 3:I don't want to do it now and it really, it's really believable about the time.
Speaker 1:You know you put a lot of time and energy into researching it, the nights that I have stayed awake researching how to become a professional dog walker or a dog groomer or a photographer. I've got an idea for a dog groomer.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I've mentioned it to you before. Oh, this is a good one.
Speaker 1:But can I just throw in that Louise and I discovered that we both individually have applied for jobs at MI5. And I'm pretty sure I'm probably not supposed to tell you that because every email they send it's like this is stop secret. I mean, I would be the worst Kind of intelligence agent I've got a job, oh I don't doubt it. I mean, it's just those on the one type situations. You just think, oh, I haven't thought about that before.
Speaker 2:Or watch a program. I'm watching loads of kind of detective stuff at the moment and I'm like how do I become detective? Be really shit detective. Be shit detective.
Speaker 1:But I've got a fast track program. Go on, of course.
Speaker 2:For, like, middle-aged women. Yeah, it can be quite exhausting, can't it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have got stuff on Etsy shop. I started up an Etsy shop because I absolutely love animals. I wouldn't say I'd say it's a hyperfictuation, but I'd say it's a special interest. I've always loved animals. So I was like I'm going to stop an Etsy shop. I bought lots of things. I've sold some things. I'm like now I'm like, yeah, that probably wasn't the best idea, but I bought loads of stuff and I've things, my pets, and yeah, I could sell things online. And I was like, actually I could sell my paintings online. And I was like, oh, I could do this and yeah. And then like, when the dopamine goes, the enjoyment from it goes.
Speaker 2:It's just like yeah, I need a nap. I need a nap.
Speaker 1:And after the nap, when, see, you know, like if I was joking with my friend about this I hadn't seen her for a couple of weeks. There's a soccer academy around the corner that our boys are members of and usually, you know, two or three times a week after school we'll go around there for a couple of hours. We'll have a coffee while the kids are off playing football. And you know I keep her up to date regularly with all the different projects and the different jobs that I'm doing. I'm doing this now, I'm doing that now, and if I haven't seen her for a couple of weeks, my God, I'm exhausted. You need like a whole weekend then, because I'm like, oh, and then you know I was telling you about that, and so X, y and Z happened as a result of that. And then you know I've got this on the go and that on the go, and you know she's probably absolutely knackered listening to me.
Speaker 1:I wrote a children's storybook just of a weekend, and then I thought I mean, how do you even go about illustrating this? I'll just illustrate it myself. So you know, the weekend I set myself a deadline. I was up till like two or three o'clock in the morning on the computer illustrating a children's storybook that I've you know, I don't know a single thing about illustration Sent it to like eight different publishers and two of them get back to me offering me, offering to publish it.
Speaker 2:So, you know.
Speaker 1:Now I feel as if I'm like a professional children's storybook author.
Speaker 2:You are? Yeah, I'm nearly a published one.
Speaker 1:Nearly Not quite got it yet, but at the minute I think I feel like a bit of a jack of all trades, master of them, because I just have so many different interests.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I can't. I really enjoy learning, like I think that obviously gives me. That's where the dopamine comes in for me. But I can very easily go down a rabbit hole that branches off into like a whole different area of things that I want to explore and it almost feels as if you don't have enough time in your life to do it. Like I feel as if you know I want to do X, I want to do Y, I want to do Zed and I need to do it all before breakfast tomorrow morning. So that's what I think about this type, just that constant sense of urgency.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, definitely. And I'm just looking around, like in my living room I'm like I've got the corner unit that I shabby sheet and I painted that and on top of that I've got something that I've made and over there I've got a painting that I've done and something else over there and I make things for the, for the mice as well. So I've made them like I've made my little wishing. Well, I made another one like a platform and stuff, and I'm like it's just our brain just goes everywhere. I can do that, I'm ready to do that, I'm ready to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's. It's wild, but it's so impressive as well, isn't it it's? It fascinates me sometimes that I can be I don't know sat in the lecture about one thing, and then that triggers my mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like a domino.
Speaker 1:I've lost concentration in the lecture because it's triggered an inspiring thought elsewhere. It's I mean, it's incredible powerful. I think. If, amy, if you could give advice to those of us that are on waiting lists for years to get you know access to support or medication for their what they suspect is ADHD, what would you, what would you say to those people if they're listening today?
Speaker 3:Well, I don't know if you've heard about the right to choose. Is that something that you've heard of before? Yeah, yes, so we don't.
Speaker 1:we don't have the NHS in Guernsey, but I have heard of it.
Speaker 3:Okay, Explain a wee bit more about that, if you. So, within the UK there is a thing called the right to choose. I wasn't aware of it until not too long ago and basically it's that you have the right to choose your healthcare provider and in terms of ADHD, as you know, that the assessments are a year. So one of my friends from uni who I keep in contact with and she knows I have ADHD and she's kind of she's been seeing a therapist and one of the things that she was like I think I'm going to get access for ADHD and she was like a bit on the waiting list. I was like the right to choose. And so for ADHD, if you go to your GP and ask about the right to choose, there's a website that you can use. I think it's Psychiatry UK and if you haven't had an assessment before, it's through the NHS and their current wait times are six months. You do have to kind of move to wherever the assessment is, but then you can be transferred back to your area if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:And for the GP, to then take over once you're on your sort of stable medication and stuff.
Speaker 3:you refer back to GP anyway and because the problems with private healthcare assessments is, a lot of the times the NHS won't accept it. I know my NHS provider wouldn't accept a private diagnosis, that if I had a private diagnosis that had to go to the NHS, so that in itself is absolutely ridiculous I've heard that so many times that they won't accept a private diagnosis.
Speaker 1:However, those psychiatrists who are given the private diagnosis probably work 50% of their time in the NHS, so I do not understand why.
Speaker 2:It's misplaced elitism, isn't it? It's just, I don't understand why. Anyway, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so if they can look into the right to choose. On Psychiatry UK there's a letter where you can take your GP. If your GP is supported they can refer you to them and the wait list is shorter. Just as I couldn't imagine having to wait years, I had to wait five months to just to see the nurse to start medication with a diagnosis.
Speaker 1:And that's very frustrating, particularly for those with ADHD brains, isn't it? Because, as we know, it comes with that sense of urgency. So it's so difficult to wait once you decide you want assessed, you want it done yesterday. Just that many changes, don't you?
Speaker 2:It's a treatable, kind of manageable thing as well, and that's the frustration, isn't it? And we talk about this quite a lot. It's you think about how effective the medication is for people with ADHD. It's like 80% of people find it effective, I think, and I don't think statistics are that great for other treatments that you get quite routinely through the NHS and it just feels like it's harder than it needs to be.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely, and just be kind to yourself. There is absolutely nothing wrong with you. You just are how you are and just try and be kind to yourself.
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, that's lovely, that's really nice.
Speaker 1:And I think Louise is going to be a question to ask.
Speaker 2:Well, I like to ask about anything kind of interesting or funny things that you may have done, kind of ADHD type things, or sometimes it's what's the most ADHD thing you've done this week, can you?
Speaker 1:see a story I can tell.
Speaker 3:So I looked I can clap with one hand, so there is a Guinness World Record for clapping with one hand, and I was like you know what? I can break this record. So I applied and it got accepted. But there was all this stuff that you had to do. So you had to get sound technician, you had to get all these other stuff. I'm like this is going to cost me money. I just want them to look at how like I've been.
Speaker 2:Wonderful. I can't believe that. I can't believe the appreciation yeah.
Speaker 3:I know it's just like I'm not going through all of this, but I was practicing Do you know what it was for a minute. It was how many you could do in a minute and it was like 400 and something. So I'm sat there like my partner's coming through, I'm just sat there like like trying really hard to take my hand, and he's just checking it out. It's like I'm not questioning this and going off.
Speaker 1:But I obviously haven't. You can't get on that. You say it to break that Guinness World Records.
Speaker 3:Well, no, because I had to get the sound engineer, all this other stuff for it, which is going to cost you.
Speaker 2:You could get some crowdfunding for that. I'm sure that someone would invest in that.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I was one thing. I thought that was a quite an ADHD thing to do.
Speaker 1:I can imagine. I mean, I don't know what your partner looks like, but I can imagine the face of a partner coming home, because that's definitely something my husband would come home from working. I've entered Guinness Book of Records.
Speaker 3:He just, he just says like I'm like I don't know I'm talking to you and he's like I know I'm not listening because you know I'm like oh yeah, oh thank you so much for putting the background there that my daughter, jodie, is getting beside herself to see your rats, so she's hungry as well.
Speaker 1:But do you want to see the rats quickly before Amy goes, if she's happy to show you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, because I'm in the room where I've got the mice so I can show you the mice really quickly. Yeah, yeah, I'll just leave that there a sec.
Speaker 1:This is like bonus content.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, leave it running and you'll get this bit. Come on, miceies. Oh so come on. I wonder what their names are.
Speaker 1:What are the miceies, called the miceies, the mice, the miceies.
Speaker 3:Oh, I called them the mice, I called them the miceies. So this one, she is one of the rescue ones I've just got. Her ears are massive. Oh, look at that, I've just called her Dede. But yeah, she, and she's a really big mouse as well.
Speaker 2:She has red eyes, yeah, so she's got pink eyes.
Speaker 1:She looks like you know unrolled owls. The wetches when the wee boys get tundered to mice when the eeve is caught, so she's one I've got recently.
Speaker 3:She was a rescue. I'll just pop her, edie.
Speaker 2:Is that what you nearly?
Speaker 1:done. Yeah, Dede, Can we have one trick? Trick please on. I don't know if it can act me as on, but I'll go something. I might use it if I just take it.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, I think I've frozen a little bit, so this is the nicest cage and then I've got some more. I've got that's one cage, then the other one's here. So how many mice have you got? At the moment I've got four. Five is eight, eight mice and you've got eight rats. The rats are in the other room. I will try and get one of them, because she's a purple colour. She's like a lavender colour.
Speaker 1:What one of the rats?
Speaker 3:One of the mice. Oh, one of the mice.
Speaker 2:And about the mice and rats. Don't mix well together, do they?
Speaker 3:No, we have to keep them separate.
Speaker 2:Hi Judy.
Speaker 1:She can't be afraid. It's not like.
Speaker 2:I'm just so your lovely dimples when you smiled.
Speaker 1:I know you don't often see us smile anymore.
Speaker 2:Oh it's, you've got a lovely smile, Judy.
Speaker 3:She's quite scared. Oh, look at her, and underneath she's got like an orange belly.
Speaker 1:Oh yes, oh, I see, oh wow. Actually she's kind of thought of saying I'm not cute but she's cute. So, I like that you find it quite therapeutic to handle them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so my, my, oh. She's getting bedding everywhere. So for me, my mice are one of my, my coping strategies. I love animals and oh, judy will no going to visit.
Speaker 1:Well, do you love Number five, silk road?
Speaker 3:If you are ever with the nottinghamshire, you're always welcome to come.
Speaker 1:Maybe one day next year next year, not next week. Thank you so much. No, that's in a different room and he needs to go. No, she doesn't. That's our dog. Sorry, it's like for like you, you show me yours.
Speaker 2:He's cute, though. He just deserve a bit of it.
Speaker 1:He does this male because he's just farted and it's absolutely. Oh, when are we going soon? Right, I suppose I better go.
Speaker 3:Thank you Having me on your podcast.
Speaker 2:He's been lovely meeting you.
Speaker 3:It's been really lovely to stay in touch. Enjoy the most of everything. Yeah, definitely Take care, bye.