Ever wondered how a life with undiagnosed ADHD can influence a person's personal, academic, and career path? Let's meet Sophie, a midwife, whose journey with ADHD provides an inspiring insight into resilience, perseverance, and mental health. Sophie takes us back to her childhood, painting a vivid picture of her struggles in academics, organization, and multi-tasking, leading up to her aspirations of becoming a lawyer. Listen as she shares her unique experiences of university life, its challenges, and the administrative hurdles she faced when transferring universities.
Sophie's story doesn't stop there. As she navigates her way through her midwifery degree and her early career, she encounters numerous roadblocks, including a near-termination before graduation. Yet, Sophie's remarkable determination leads her to qualify as a midwife, a journey marked by trials, mental health struggles, and undiagnosed ADHD. This journey takes a critical turn when Sophie's diagnosis of ADHD in adulthood comes into play. Discover how this diagnosis shaped her career trajectory, leading her from an award manager to a project manager in the maternity and CCG sector.
Mental health stigma, societal attitudes, and the stereotypes surrounding ADHD and autism form a significant part of our discussion. Sophie's personal experiences offer a unique perspective on these sensitive issues, challenging conventional understandings and encouraging a more inclusive approach. The conversation hones in on neurodivergence in the field of midwifery, emphasizing the importance of support and understanding. This episode paints a powerful portrait of life with ADHD, a testament to resilience, and a call to change societal attitudes towards mental health and neurodivergence. Get ready for an enlightening conversation that you won't forget.
Outro
This is a special edition episode recorded from a webinar.
Ever wondered how a life with undiagnosed ADHD can influence a person's personal, academic, and career path? Let's meet Sophie, a midwife, whose journey with ADHD provides an inspiring insight into resilience, perseverance, and mental health. Sophie takes us back to her childhood, painting a vivid picture of her struggles in academics, organization, and multi-tasking, leading up to her aspirations of becoming a lawyer. Listen as she shares her unique experiences of university life, its challenges, and the administrative hurdles she faced when transferring universities.
Sophie's story doesn't stop there. As she navigates her way through her midwifery degree and her early career, she encounters numerous roadblocks, including a near-termination before graduation. Yet, Sophie's remarkable determination leads her to qualify as a midwife, a journey marked by trials, mental health struggles, and undiagnosed ADHD. This journey takes a critical turn when Sophie's diagnosis of ADHD in adulthood comes into play. Discover how this diagnosis shaped her career trajectory, leading her from an award manager to a project manager in the maternity and CCG sector.
Mental health stigma, societal attitudes, and the stereotypes surrounding ADHD and autism form a significant part of our discussion. Sophie's personal experiences offer a unique perspective on these sensitive issues, challenging conventional understandings and encouraging a more inclusive approach. The conversation hones in on neurodivergence in the field of midwifery, emphasizing the importance of support and understanding. This episode paints a powerful portrait of life with ADHD, a testament to resilience, and a call to change societal attitudes towards mental health and neurodivergence. Get ready for an enlightening conversation that you won't forget.
Outro
This is a special edition episode recorded from a webinar.
Good morning everyone. Welcome to the next episode of our podcast. I am your host, laura Spence, the ADHD midwife, and with me today I have my co-host, louise Brady Morning hello. And the lovely Sophie Kellaway, who I have just asked what is her son name? But if I'd actually caled to look at the bottom left of the screen then I would have seen it. So we are off to a good start on a Monday morning.
Speaker 2:I like the nabber right.
Speaker 1:Hi Sophie, how are?
Speaker 3:you today. Hi, good morning, I'm really well, thank you. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Excellent, thank you for coming on. Would you like to introduce yourself, tell us what you do for a living, tell us just tell us a bit about yourself, kind of pre-diagnosis, and then the journey to diagnosis and what it's been like after yeah, yeah, sure, so I am also a midwife, so we have that in common.
Speaker 3:My Instagram is new to ADHD, because this is quite a new sort of thing to me that I was only diagnosed in December 2022. But prior to that, I had quite the sort of usual childhood. I wasn't a naughty kid at school. Nobody ever like ADHD was never mentioned at all as I was growing up and I didn't ever think I had anything wrong with me. To be honest, I was quite well at high, achieving you know, went to university, got a degree and, again, never really thought of anything and didn't have any form of issue. Well, I thought I did.
Speaker 3:It's only since having the diagnosis that I look back and I'm like, oh, wow, actually that, you know, tells you a lot, and now I understand some issues I did have that I didn't realise I had, but yeah, so as a kid now I reflect back on it I was very I've always not been able to sit. Still, I've never been that person that can just sit down, chill out, put my mind to one task and do that one task. But I think I was just learning that, thinking that was the norm and everyone would say, oh, you're so organised because everything always gets done. But actually, the more I think about it when I look behind closed doors, it was because there was 20 different tasks happening at one time and I'd dip in and out of all of them and it was actually a mess. I was just good at pretending and showing people that, oh no, it's all done. So then, and because of that, people now to this day will say oh, you like organising things, you can plan this. And I'm like I don't like organising it, I have to be organised, otherwise I will forget it. That is the difference. I have a list as long as my arm on my phone every single day because I will forget to feed the dog, like there's so many things. So it's not because I'm naturally organised, it's because through time I've had to be that way To function. And so it actually grates on me now when people just assume I want to arrange their hendu's if I'm honest, because I don't. Yeah, it's the big thing, but anyway, but yeah.
Speaker 3:So going through school sorry, flipping back and forth, but going through school I was a high achiever, but I did sort of I'd be that person that really, really tried hard, but still I wasn't like a straight A student. I passed. I got good grades, you know, good enough to go to university, didn't fail any of my subjects. But for the amount of effort I was putting in, compared to sort of Joe Bloggs over next to me who then did go and get A's, I was like how is? How is this doesn't marry up? I don't understand. But I'm trying so hard in like art as much as I hated art and I didn't take it for that reason but like I was trying so, so hard and getting equivalent of like a level you know level it was different than from what it is now, but level four and I just spent like four hours more versus this person.
Speaker 3:That's just done something really quickly and they're there with their level eight, like excelling through life, and it used to really great on me. So I just think I really have to try to get these grades. Why is this that? Why is this happening? But you know, I did do it, I got my grades and that was that surprised myself a little bit, which was nice. And then, going through GCSEs, I was like I really I did well, I did, I did do well, but I was really good with, like expressive stuff, anything that was creative. So I did GCSE.
Speaker 3:One of the elements I took was expressive arts, so that incorporated drama, dance and music, and I've always loved drama. I'd always loved being like I was always in the musicals at school. That was one thing I could just get and it all sort of clicked for me when I got my diagnosis, like when my mum used to say to me there isn't a song you don't know, and I used to just know the words to every song and I don't know how it happened. I didn't train myself to do that, I would just know them and I would say, oh yeah, cool, that's cool, cool, cool little you know talent to have, but it's little things like that which I think, oh, actually that was probably because of this. But yeah, it was great to express myself and be creative in that space. But then when it came to like anything I really wasn't interested in, I was, I struggled, I really struggled and I had to like to apply myself was crazy like IT, especially as you could open so many different tabs in the background and not tell you teach, so difficult for me, um, so yeah, I mean, but I got through it.
Speaker 3:Then I went to do my A-levels and originally I always wanted to be a lawyer. Growing up, always wanted to be a lawyer, since I think I was about 11, um, I don't know what it was, but I just really wanted to do it. And so I was like, had that in my head, went to study all of the things you need to study to be a lawyer A-level or to get into law, um, and I did. I enjoyed law, but it was. I did well at law, sorry, but I didn't really enjoy it. And then the other subjects I was like this is with boring I don't don't like history, english literature, I can't read and and remember what I've read. This is not going to go to plan, especially when it's not something I remember. Like if I enjoy it, I'll read it and I want to read it over and over again. But I don't want to read about World War I and that was going to be the two years of my life and I knew I was not going to do well and I was like this, this is going to go, not going to go well.
Speaker 3:Um so ended up dropping out of sick form. Much to my mum's, you know. She was demised because she'd spent all this money on all these books, um, and then couldn't find a job. But I wanted to do because I didn't just want to be a receptionist for the rest of my life and I was like in a bit of a rock and a hard place, not really sure what to do, went to so many different interviews. Um then realised I probably should go back to college, because that's the thing that I know everything was was basically saying you need to go back. But I just didn't know what to do and just sort of fell into um, because by that point everyone was about six, seven weeks into, or maybe six weeks or so, into sick form, so I had to catch up.
Speaker 3:Whatever it was I was going to do, I was going to have to catch up, um, so I needed to do things that I knew was going to interest me, so that I knew I'd apply myself and that I wouldn't find it too overwhelming. All things I hadn't realised were triggers from ADHD, um, at the time, um, and then, sorry, someone's just called me to decline that, um, and yeah, so I had to apply myself to that. So I ended up sort of falling into doing a b-tech in dance because I was like well, my friend's doing that, I quite like dancing, let's give that a go. Um, that was the one thing I actually excelled at, weirdly. Um, then I did to health and social care, which, uh, was two equivalent of two A levels, um, and I had, and at the same time I did AS level religious philosophy and ethics because I loved RE. I don't know what it was, I just loved RE and GCSE.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, I've never met an embassy that loved. How do you?
Speaker 3:I loved it, yeah yeah loved it like yeah, so you see, so like going into it and I was like learning all about the Judaism was. I was obsessed with it, like I went to the synagogue I thought it was fantastic, like it's just so interesting, um, and I did quite well with it at GCSE and my teacher was like please take it, please take it whatever. So I ended up doing that. But, um, it's really different A level because you're not learning about really religions, you're learning about philosophers and then ethics and it's like this, this isn't um. And I really didn't get on well with my philosophy teacher. She and I would just clash constantly and so I ended up just not going to philosophy because I was like I'm not learning anything here. We're watching the matrix, like this is not anything that I'm interested in. But I did really well in the ethics part of it and it was the same teacher I've had in my GCSEs and but that was all about like debates and like giving your arguments and learning about that was this, is it yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:So I was like, yeah, this is amazing. But it was really annoying because I did really well in ethics and just failed philosophy. But obviously you have to do both of them to pass, um. So then I ended up retaking the philosophy part at A level the following year, but not the ethics um. So yeah, and then health and social care. I just sort of got on with it and it kind of just flowed quite nicely, um, and I was able to catch up with it all and I thought, okay, this, this isn't that bad. Um, so, uh, yeah, so I got kind of caught up, I was doing all right with them, and then I was like I don't want to be a lawyer, but I have no idea what I want to do. I don't like, I know, I've got this academic academia coming, I've got two years of this. Like, what do I do? Um, and for, okay, I'm going to look at the health and social care aspect.
Speaker 3:So it was part of our health and social care. Um, we had to do a like, not a placement, but it was all one of our, one of our courseworks. We had like three triggers. One was really boring and the other two were like, if you did it you had to go out and about into a place within a health and social care setting to sort of get that exposure. So I chose one of those and I've wanted to thank you.
Speaker 3:I've managed, like friend of a friend sort of mum worked for a care home company or something. So I went out with her for the day, um, and spent the day in the care home, went out for the activities for the elderly, like had a really nice time, but instantly knew I don't want to be a nurse, not for me, um, and I was just like I'm not sure about this. But I then had a job, got a job working in a? Um, in an old people's home, because it just was a bit easier than the pub I was working in. I thought it gives me a bit more exposure, like a bit more. Like you know, I can get zero hours contract bit easier. So, um, I then definitely didn't want to be a nurse, just, even more, just reinforce it.
Speaker 3:It was reinforcing it all. Yeah, um, but. And then my friend's mum, who's a midwife she was on one born every minute. So, like, because I grew up in Bournemouth and she was a midwife in Southampton, and she was like, so if you say, if you want to be a midwife, I was like oh no, like I don't think so. But then she just kept bugging me and then she was like, come and have a tour of the unit, okay, fine.
Speaker 3:So I went down to Southampton and then I met loads of the midwives and the MSWs and we were just having a chat and I thought this is actually really nice. And then, the more I looked into it, but yeah, actually I think I want to do this, not knowing how competitive it was and you know it's a complete, like it's a minefield, isn't it? Getting into midwifery is crazy, and especially back when I'm assuming you did it at the same time as me that you had a bursary, you had it paid for like it's completely different to how it is now. And thank God, because I couldn't have done it now if I had to. But yeah, so I was like I'm going to do that. So I tried for that and by luck, by whatever, I did get in first time.
Speaker 1:Amazing.
Speaker 3:But I got into the University of West England in Bristol, did my first year there, really liked it, but was in a very long-term relationship at that point and my boyfriend at the time still lived in Bournemouth and my parents were moving to Australia.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh.
Speaker 3:They've come back now, but they were going out for like business for a few years. So then they said you know, you can, if you want, to have the house and live in the house like pretty much for free for me anyway and I was like that's a bit of a commute, but then I managed to transfer from UE to Southampton. Amazing, and that was the most ludicrous thing Like it was so ridiculous having to go through all of that. It was so overwhelming and honestly it's probably one of my biggest regrets doing it, because I went through hell at uni. But I mean, I got here, I'm qualified.
Speaker 2:What made you think transferring unis was the biggest?
Speaker 3:regret? Yeah, because I mean the process itself was absolutely crazy. But like I didn't, I had to use my whole summer to transfer. Laura, you'll know about your competencies.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:All on paper. Yeah, it was all on paper. At Bristol and in Southampton they'd launched this electronic thing, so I had to manually go through every single one. We say for, just to give you the example, we have to do 40 births, 100 anti-native checks, 100 baby checks, 100 post-natal checks and then all these other little niche things around caring, labor complexity, whatever.
Speaker 1:There's unipod, churn, cannulation and all that yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I had to manually update every single thing, every single one, oh my God. Through the summer, yeah, with this lecturer who was absolutely crazy, like this woman. She was the one that, like, literally flopped her boob out to say that's about breastfeeding. We were like, oh my God, she's like in her sixties.
Speaker 2:Yes, it was he yeah.
Speaker 3:And then we were like actually she didn't care, and we were all like how old was she? Like what?
Speaker 1:condition were I based in.
Speaker 3:No, not good. She was nearing retirement, put it that way. Like just she didn't say if it was wrong, but it was the most absurd thing ever and we were like, oh God, what do we do? It's so horrible. It's so too hard, but yeah. So I got over that, but yeah, I had to do that.
Speaker 1:Did you ever have? I don't know if this was a Scottish thing or not, but did you ever have the little blue book that you used to keep in your pocket for every time you did a vaginal examination, getting it signed off at the end of the show? Yeah, yeah, I did two vaginal examinations and it delivered one baby one percent.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you had to. And I remember getting, like the first time I drew what my findings were, like what I was feeling and it was I don't know what the hell I was drawing. I was drawing like a little circle to say like this is the cervix. That wasn't really understanding what I was actually drawing. The midwives were like what the hell is this? So like what have you?
Speaker 1:been finding. And then they used to say, oh well, if you do the examination first and then I'll do it after you, then we can discuss it. So then I was going in and Bill, I don't know, she's nice and cute and absolutely stabbing the duck. Yeah, oh, she's only lit one to two. I'm lit right now, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then she says her cervix is closed, you're like, okay, yeah, sorry, yeah. So yeah, I did do that and that was painstaking because then, because it was electronic, if you didn't have an electronic login, if you were working with someone that wasn't your mentor, they had to then login, sign up, do it just to tick you off, to say, yes, they've done this thing. So then they did bring in the blue book to be like, let's just use this and then your mentor can sign everything.
Speaker 1:I mean people are not that enthusiastic anyway. But having students, are they not going to feel the the admin that comes with it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So bringing it back to sort of the ADHD type thing. So just throughout the whole of uni anything academic I my my teachers at A level were like you'll be fine going from A level to to to degree level, like that's absolute. You know, it's a bigger jump from GCSE to A level than it is to uni. And I was like that is the worst piece of advice ever been given, because it's not. I was fine at A levels like level six and above is hideous.
Speaker 1:So and that's the thing. You don't have the same support, do you? Obviously, the teachers are there at your bed and call when you're doing your A levels, but when you're at uni, it's completely independent.
Speaker 3:Nobody's seen it and nobody talks you through referencing. Well, they didn't for me anyway, at A levels I was like, what do you mean referencing? Like, I got it from this book. They're like, yeah, you need to reference that I might have. No, you need to reference it properly. What Harvard system, what's that? I don't know, I just expect it to know all these things. Yeah, what for? Like, yeah, hideous, yeah.
Speaker 3:So, like my first assignment was in communication and I failed it, not because I couldn't communicate, because I didn't know how to write the friggin essay. Nobody had given me any sort of support and it was only because I went back to the tutor and I was like this is on you, like no one's prepared me for this and she like helped me to get back through it and do it and pass it. But that massively knocked my confidence because I was excelling in practice. Everything was fine, never had an issue Like my first year of high, but yeah, the academic side of it. Then I did eventually and then I did pass my other things.
Speaker 3:But again, the amount of effort I was putting in versus what my, what you were doing, the rest of my cohort were doing for the results that we were getting, I thought how this is craziness, like this just doesn't make sense and like my dissertation was just next level craziness for me.
Speaker 3:So I did struggle with that but, yeah, I mean, I managed to eventually get through, but I was delayed by six months because of the rubbish I went through. I was nearly struck off the register before I was even on the register. I was accused of things that I didn't do. Evidently, of course, I wouldn't be here, but it was all like I had to. And this is when everyone said you should have been a lawyer, because if you didn't manage this case, you wouldn't be doing what you're doing today. Because, yeah, I had to essentially pin prick and like scrutinise to the letter what was wrong with everything they were saying and who was actually accountable, and if they just read the notes here and if they just read the notes there and if they looked at this and looked at that and that they've.
Speaker 1:You know it was a very stressful, stressful time. Yeah, it was a lot of trouble to come through that, because I can't hand on heart say that if that was me I would have just said, no, we'll take it. Then just take it, because I cannot put myself through that. It's so stressful.
Speaker 3:That is the thing, though, like I think especially that the uni I was at they're very much known for academic academia and if you're not interested because I was not interested in being ahead of McRiffery, I have to say, but somehow I got to that point but all I wanted to do was be a clinician and be happy in my life, that was it. And because that was my sort of mentality, they were like, whatever we're not, we're kind of done with you, then we don't need you, because everyone over here wants to be a consultant, midwife and director and whatnot else, and that's all they were interested in. And I was like, well, that's not really very fair, because you need people like me to line, manage and run the service. But so, yeah, and I think I learned very quickly, learned that I am passionate about justice and that's it in any regard.
Speaker 3:So I went through this whole process and I thought, no, this is wrong. There's actual wrongdoing here, and whether that's an ADHD thing or not, if it's just me, I was like I'm not going to just let this go, because if I look back down, I'm guilty. I know I'm not guilty. I've done nothing wrong. These people have done wrong. They need to be held accountable and other people can't go through what I've gone through.
Speaker 3:It's really inappropriate, and so I had to go through. I had to appeal things. They were trying to make me retake a whole second year and I was like I've completed the whole of the all of my third year. This was in my third year. At the end of my I was just. All I had left was my last placement. I'd passed my dissertation. I'd passed everything. There was nothing. I'd never failed in practice anything. So it was really weird. I was like I'm not going back and repeating things I've passed. It makes absolutely no sense to me. And then we, yeah, we scrutinized and critiqued everything they were accusing me of. Well, done.
Speaker 3:And was able to say you're actually the one that's done this and actually, if you hadn't have done it, I said this wouldn't have been. You shouldn't have left the third year student alone for starters in any of these situations, and I tried to tell you that. You know, that's just one. There was plenty of other things going on, but then I had to go back and the work this is the bit that really got me and I thought, oh my God, I'm going to have to really grit my teeth in this because of Southampton is you do everything in Southampton in maternity. It's not like a lot of other unions, like UE for example. They've got like six or seven different trusts associated with them, so I could have just gone to a different trust not knowing anyone had finished my training. But Southampton was, you know, everything is in Princess Anne Hospital, that is it.
Speaker 3:So I then had to go back to finish my practice with my cohort, who are now qualified midwives, who then were like what's going on? Why are you here? What's happening? You know, like just having to have those conversations and I'm like this is ridiculous. I really did, it was horrible, and having to work with the mentor that put me through all of this shit. So then I turned around in the end and I just said to her right, we need to let's level the playing field.
Speaker 3:I've seen the emails. I've had total transparency on this. So I'm going to tell you that I know exactly what you said about me. If we're going to work together, you need to know that and you need to know that I'm not going to respect you going forwards. I'm here to do a job and that's it. And I was like because you've literally lost all of my trust. And she was oh, I didn't know. You said you've seen those emails. You shouldn't have seen them. And I'm like sorry you were trying to strike me off a register before I was even on it. I absolutely should have had that, and if you weren't willing to tell me these things, you shouldn't have actually said them. So you know. So I ended up doing that with her and then a few other mentors who were lovely and amazing and were like what is? We don't understand how you've like fair play. You've got a lot of resilience as much as I hate that word now.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you can hear that word anymore, but at the time it was relevant, yeah. And then so eventually qualified and I was like, oh hello, how no, am I working here? So, yeah, then I got a job in London and got a band six instead of a band five, with London waiting, and I thought, absolutely, I'm out, see you later. Like, job done, did my perceptive, absolutely loved it there, and I still do a lot of my clinical work there, despite where I work full time is 80 miles away from my house. So I'm not, I just did a bank shift. I'm not driving 80 miles, unfortunately, so I do still keep my foot in with London, which is great.
Speaker 3:But yeah, so I did my perceptive there. Then I went and worked in Australia and I was again. Just the issue of having to go through all these paperwork and stuff was really overwhelming. But again, everyone's like you're so organized and I was like I'm not organized, I have to be structured and I've got a spreadsheet because I'll forget it. Like you know, I can't cope without it in place and I think people can't see the stress that it causes, can they?
Speaker 2:Because you mask.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. They say don't they so underdiagnosed in women? Because we cope? And it's so true. The more you learn about it you think, oh my God, this is actually if a man that did cope has to cope with the same stress. They don't, and that's why they then get diagnosed, because they're like oh my God, oh my God, this is having a meltdown and blah, blah, blah, and you think, okay, we'll have to do that Somehow.
Speaker 1:the mental load is different, isn't it? For a male? I mean especially in terms of, you know, when you're running your house and doing your full-time job, and then you can spend a lot of your time organizing your partner as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah absolutely. Sorry.
Speaker 2:Cardio.
Speaker 3:No, no, it's fine Like. You're right, it's little things like me. If I don't, whenever I put a load of washing on, if I don't ask Siri to remind me in two hours to take it out, I'm not taking it out, the washing machine. And my partner's always, like he said to me the other day, why do you always have to ask Siri? Because I'll forget. How have you not learned this in five years that I will not do it, but yeah, so anyway, going back, I went to Australia for a bit I was still with this long-term partner at the time then ended up coming home because I broke up with my long-term partner and throughout this whole time, again, nothing, adhd, nothing had ever been mentioned to me as far as I was concerned, growing up, especially like my parents met Etude and, I think again, naivety, because not many people.
Speaker 3:We didn't really know what we know now. Yeah, and there was a lot more stigma around it back then, but it was like, oh, adhd is not a thing, people just can't control their kids. And I was like, oh, very well, doing this with your kids, I love that, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:But you had no thoughts of ADHD. What was your mental health like at that time? Did you have any difficulties there or do you feel like that was?
Speaker 3:well, no, no. So I struggled with anxiety massively, but again I didn't know. I was struggling with anxiety for a while, it was only sort of, probably when I was. Even when I went through that whole thing in uni, I really had my shit together and I don't understand how, but I did. I was able to, I think, because again I knew I was right and I was like and it's that.
Speaker 2:I tried to, isn't it? It's that high stress environment. Yeah, that really struck.
Speaker 3:Continuously, yeah, yeah. But then after that, when I went to, when I had to do, when I was doing my dissertation, looking back I definitely had anxiety but I didn't think that's, didn't know, that's what kind of what it was. But then, coming into like the qualified era, I started I did have like a session of CBT and at one point I was training to run a marathon, which don't even I don't ever do that.
Speaker 1:Well, we've just done that before, so she was.
Speaker 2:Oh, I hope so I know from the. Paris marathon, I know, yeah, I signed up for that. I got then got the t-shirt and I was like I don't want to do a marathon. I don't know why. Nobody said to me at that point you realize you've got ADHD, what you've done.
Speaker 3:Yeah right.
Speaker 2:About that. So if I do a marathon, I'll get really fair. And I didn't. I didn't nothing happened. All that happened is I gave some money to register.
Speaker 3:I got my name on it. Yeah, exactly no. So I signed up. So my cousin, who was really tiny at the time, she was like two had leukemia. And anyone that knows me well enough I know I do not like running. I love the gym, I love to dance, I like to move my body, but running is so boring I'm like I'm out, my brain just goes places. It shouldn't be going. So I was like if I can really do something, it will challenge myself. I'll raise a lot of money because people will know Jesus Christ, he hates that. So I signed up for it.
Speaker 3:I was trained for the marathon and because I just couldn't get past like this, like free K mark, thinking this is really boring and horrible, someone was like, why don't you try hypnotherapy, like you can? You know, sometimes that works. And I went and had this hypnotherapy but it ended up being she was like, before we get into the hypnosis we need, I need to give you a bit more of a like counseling, to understand what it is you're after and for you to draw out any issues so that we can focus on what it is you really want to focus on when you're under. And I was like, okay, thinking whatever, that's what happened, I'm fine. So yeah, I did that and ended up literally within five minutes bawling my eyes out, talking about all sorts of things that happened in my relationship, and at the time I was in a domestically violent relationship and hadn't like, even when I was having this conversation, hadn't still didn't even broke it and still didn't at connolly. That's what was happening.
Speaker 3:But she was like are you sure about this relationship? You know, like she really pulled things out of me and she was like gosh, you've had this, you've had that, you know, you seem to cope, you seem to be this person that everyone goes to for everything. And how does that make you feel? And I was like just who I am? No, no, no, no. But you know, and still, again, didn't really think there's anything wrong with any of those things, or that was the norm. I just figured well, that's just me, and everyone has weird relationships, right, everyone has the issues, and you know. But she was like have you ever thought about thought you might have anxiety? And I thought, no, I'm fine. And then so kind of got on with the hypnosis but ended up being more of a focus around my relationship, more than the running, and throughout that time. Then, once we had then moved to Australia, I was like, in the time that I was planning to leave my partner, I they had, like they have like a music called employee assistance program, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So you can go and get there. And it was really good. The one in Australia was fantastic. So I was like I acknowledged. I thought actually, do you know what I think I'm gonna? I would benefit from having some support to go through this Cause. I'm in Australia, I'm on my own, I'd had a miscarriage on my own, you know, got pregnant, blamed to be get blamed from him, like all these things have happened. It was not nice. Again, didn't think anything of it. I thought I was fine, I've just got on with it. And everyone was like how the hell are you like still standing of going through all these things, like you just cracked on. So then I thought and I was like I'm gonna get some support and really grateful that I did, and she was like absolutely, you have got anxiety. Equally, you've got a lot of shit going on in your life and anyone would be like would, nobody would it's understandable to have that, that sort of you know, to feel like you need some
Speaker 3:reaction yeah, but she yeah. So then she was like are you definitely like? You have anxiety through and through? I can hear it through what you're saying and it's very common, you know, and it was and it is. We all know that now. So I mean it's hard, you don't.
Speaker 3:I rarely, would say, I'd see a woman that comes through, labeled or triaged that hasn't got some form of anxiety or depression within her and you just think, oh, okay, everyone's got it now. But she was like no, you don't definitely do it. And then that did sort of change my mindset and she really helped me put like coping mechanisms again in place and ways too, cause it was all CBT, so they don't really treat you, they just sort of help you cope with the way you're feeling and give you mechanisms to put that in. Never once mentioned ADHD, never mentioned anything around that it was all just to cope with what I was going on and that I had anxiety. I thought, fine, I came home from Australia, again, nothing.
Speaker 3:It was only when I went to Bali with some of my colleagues actually it was two of them and I was single and loving my life at this point and I was on one of the days we were in our villa and they just wanted to relax and sit by the pool, and I've never been that person, like I cannot sit by the pool for the whole day and just be like, yeah, cool, this is my day. Like, no, no, that's part of my day for like an hour, and then I'm out. I'm going to do something. Yeah, you need to be moving. I'm not doing that. Yeah, and my fiance is exactly the same, but he's, I don't have any HD Whatever. Yeah, exactly, tell the psychiatrist. No, but um, takes one to no one. 100%, I honestly think he definitely does, but yeah, he won't admit that. So that's fine, but he, um, I started talking to him when I was in Bali. And is Laura still?
Speaker 2:there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she's frozen. Oh yeah, cam was gone off.
Speaker 2:Oh, there we go oh you're back, that's fine.
Speaker 3:I don't want to carry on in case you're disbid. Um, yes, I was in Bali anyway. They just wanted to chill out by the pool and stuff and whatever. And I was like, yeah, that's fine, we can do that, yeah, and then literally within like 15 minutes, I was like, tapping my fingers, running in I was actually not the child, I was like 26 or 25 years old, jumping in like bombing in the pool, running. I just couldn't sit still. And then I went on my phone and went on, went on to hinge on the dating website.
Speaker 3:It's how I met my fiance now, uh, and I was chatting and just talking to people because I was like I'm really bored and my friends are really boring, like whatever. Um, and then they all say to me now Sophie, did you really not think you had ADHD? Look at the way you were behaving. It was bloody hilarious but also really annoying. And I'm like, okay, and I, because I did a lot of videos I vlogged when I was there. Looking back, they even say in it they're like, oh, my God, just like I said, what's your life Highlight and lowlight? They're like the way you just run around like a fricking madman, like you just can't sit still I'm like oh, haha, like no, literally nothing Back acknowledgement, um, but and at this point I was still I'd come back from Australia and gone back to working in the same hospital in.
Speaker 3:London, just being like a rotational midwife and um, yeah, and then I met Tom online and once we had sort of met up it was a few months into our relationship he just kept making funny little remarks, like being like you're so ADHD, and I was like, haha, whatever, like again didn't have any fun. And then he just kept saying it and I was like why do you keep saying that I'm ADHD? It was like you're so impulsive or like you're like you don't pay attention to things and or he would just like little things I would do. Like how, that's just that is an ADHD trait. And I'm like how do you know this? Like he is not medical Really weird but he's just flinging it around. Like it was like an empty statement and I was like then it got to the point. I said to him it's actually affecting me that you're saying these things, because why Like it doesn't? I don't understand.
Speaker 3:And then it was sort of in that I feel like it's only in the last sort of five years that it's become a known, common and acceptable thing in adulthood, especially, and not just because you're an naughty little child, yeah, so I was like fine, we'll, we'll, I'll have a look into this a bit more. And then it was weird, like I was on a training day and there was a poster up about do you have ADHD? And I was like what the hell is going on. I thought they were from a school.
Speaker 1:They were coming to me for you to be a weed of it. Yeah.
Speaker 3:This is weird. So and then I started following a couple of people online, who one person I followed, who? Who then I was just following because I liked her and not because she didn't know she had ADHD at the time and she went through it and I was like, oh, okay. And she was like I think I've got this. And then she went, probably, and had the diagnosis done, and I think she was saying I was like Jesus Christ, I actually correlate with everything she's saying. And it was really really bizarre. And so I was.
Speaker 3:And then people were like, okay, maybe you should just refer yourself, like see, see, nothing bad can come of it. And I'd I'd just put everything down to I've got anxiety, you know I have and PTSD because of my previous relationship. What happened with that? I thought that's. It's just because of those things that I get affected by, certain things, like obviously I'm triggered when you go out and whatever. Like I don't have rejection sensitivity and you know what? No, but as I do, yeah. So I was like, okay, fine, I'll refer myself at some point. Never really got round to it.
Speaker 3:But then, within this time period, I sort of came back. So I qualified in 2016, went to Australia 2017, came back 2018. And then by the end of 2019, I've moved. I moved from my I was a award manager as well in that time Then went into a band seven post, for it was called. I was a project manager, but for maternity and for the. They were called CCGs at the time but then our called integrated care boards, so the commissioners, essentially who look after your sector. So I was Northwest London but my hospital was Hillingdon. So I was representing Hillingdon but working for Northwest London and trying to implement all these new changes. So you know we've all got the Occamden report that's come out since and anything like that and points from that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and but it was around like better births and looking at continuity, continuity of carer and postnatal care plans, all of those things trying to bring those in, and that was something I thought I'd never want to do in my life. Monday, friday what the hell, central London one, what I want to do, those things. But I was just a sidestep, you know. Let's just see what's happened. And I've just got fed up with being a board manager and being told that things need to change and nobody can tell me why. So I'll find out for myself. So off I went, did that and I was.
Speaker 3:I was so good at being a project manager and I was like this is, why am I so good at this? And my director at the time was like Sophie, you found your niche, like why, you know, this is, this is where you're space. And I thought I still don't understand why I'm so good at this. And everyone says it's just because you're so organized. And I was like, yeah, yeah, that's it, that's it. I can do like six different projects at once and they can all do really well. And I was like actually it was more. Because now I look back I'm like massively because I've got ADHD and because I can't focus on one thing at once, I did me a favor that I had seen things on the go, I could dip in and out of them and I always made my deadline and my you know, and my boss would always say to me I love our one to ones because you come to me with a breakdown of a list and what's due and what's not, and what you haven't done and what you have done, and I was like, yes, because I'm really organized, and I'm like no, it's because I had ADHD and if I didn't write that down I wouldn't get it done. So it served me really well in that space.
Speaker 3:And then I went and then I became the senior project manager within that team. So then I line managed all of those project managers. So I had sort of more responsibility. And then the whole demographic of maternity just changed because of the Ockerton report, the long term, everything that just it just went to pop. And then COVID as well happened. So my whole sort of the account, my responsibility and everything, just my, yeah, the responsibility of my job changed. I was massively more responsible than I was before and there was a big emphasis on anything I did had to change, you know, like when I had to lead the pathway for when, when the Taliban took over, came back in Afghan. Obviously it was during COVID, so all of the women and well anyway.
Speaker 1:I thought God, she's leaking the Taliban now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm eating the Taliban. Yeah, no limits. No, no, exactly.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, if there was a possession you could if you wanted to.
Speaker 3:But you did a project manager. So when they, when the Taliban took over obviously they flee, understandably with everybody was fleeing, but where they were landing was Heathrow and my hospital is the closest Heathrow. So Northwest London as a whole, we, as the local maternity and atal system, had to orchestrate and coordinate a system to identified pregnant women and the newborns. Because there wasn't one in place, they were just flung into these hotels, spoke obviously minimum, minimal, next to next to no, or minimal English. They had paramedics on site who were useless and didn't know whether they're pregnant or not. I'm like, have you asked them? No, right, would you want to? Because I'm like.
Speaker 3:So it got to the point we had to literally go into all these hotels and literally knock on the doors and be like are you pregnant? You know, have you had a baby recently? Do you need any support from a midwife? And that was ridiculous. So between sort of five of us we had to go around the whole of Northwest London into all of these hotels and identify. But then so then it came down to sort of I ended up having overwatch response because my boss at the time had COVID, so she had to go off and couldn't help because she was ill. So then I was deputizing for her having to overshot and I thought, jesus Christ, what is going on here? And then afterwards I got a lot of feedback saying you, you handled that really well and you know the team felt really supported. You work really well together.
Speaker 1:You're obviously you're thriving in those highly stressful situations, which is amazing. Yeah, and I thought oh, it's a really strong, a really strong quality of those with ADHD, I think 100% yeah, and I just thought, but you still don't know at this point that you've nothing.
Speaker 3:And then yeah, so then sort of skip, skip forwards a few, few months. I then got a position in the national team and became the national quality improvement lead for maternity and within that it was, honestly, I loved it as best you ever. And within that, like that was massive, like having to manage. That was when Okanjib become. The second Okanjib report came out, nottingham came out. I was working with all of these trusts on on the program, because that was the team I was, I was with, were all trying to improve the hospitals that had been on board and you know they were inadequate on CQC or needed some form of assistance. So it was. It was a high pressure job of traveling the country helping these people and again I was like this is fine, you know, it's cool. But I then had did then refer myself within my time with them and then I had to wait about six months. So I used the right to choose halfway. I don't know if anyone knew that?
Speaker 3:So that was brand new to me. I went to Glastonbury and I was working there with Oxfam and one of the girls that another volunteer who had sort of just become really palliative.
Speaker 1:Is this? Hang on Right, you're working for Oxfam now, but is this like a volunteer, so that you can get two glasses, Because I've heard those things before. So you get tickets but you also have to do some work quite really.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So I was doing that and she was. She turns out she had ADHD and she was like, yeah, I went through, right to choose, I used this company, and I was like what's that I don't know. She told me about it and she was honestly so if you do it, because you'll get through so much quicker. And so I did. I found psychiatry UK and you had to just refer yourself by writing a letter to your GPS to explain why you think you've got ADHD. Then I had to fill in a load of like screening forms about myself and then my partner or someone close to me had to fill in the same and grade it and see what the scores were, then send all of those to my GP. They were like, what's right to choose? No, I'm like, well, bloody hell, no wonder people don't know about it, because you guys don't know about it.
Speaker 1:It seems that it's quite a common theme, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, with the lady on yesterday who was talking about right to choose as well. Yeah, and GP didn't know.
Speaker 3:I know I don't really know how people do know, because normally it would be the GP.
Speaker 1:That that's the sort of having you think they would tell you yeah, but then they even yeah.
Speaker 3:It's only through my own sort of research on and speaking to people that they were like, use this, you know. So, yeah, no wonder they get you through quickly because nobody knows about them. But yeah, so went through that avenue and then sent it all off and they said, right, you know, we'll assign you a psychiatrist within due course, type thing. And I was like, yeah, fine, that's fine. And then it took about four months I think, until I got my appointment and literally had a Zoom consultation with a psychiatrist, went through all of the all of my screening was like you are absolutely said I don't need to talk to you today that you've got ADHD, but we'll have a further conversation so we can really analyze and, you know, explain which types or what you're more, what you're less, type thing. So went through it all.
Speaker 3:And yeah, and he was like you definitely got combined adult ADHD. So he said I would say you're more inattentive than you are hyperactive, but you do have both. And I was like, yeah, 100% agree that. Because I'm a lot more like my inattentiveness is ridiculous. Like my boyfriend every single day about fail. He can't get his head around it. Like we have an air fryer and if I wash the air fryer up, he's like can you please tell me how this is clean? I'm like I stood there for five minutes cleaning this bloody thing and he's like look at it, look at it. And he was like show me. Oh, he's like how did you not see that? I didn't, I genuinely didn't. And I said and I'm like well, I told off child. I'm like I did, I tried, I'm right. And yesterday did the same with his Nutribe, with Ninja Blender thing. He was like look at the blade. I was like you, literally you watched me clean it. It was like oh, yeah, but it's still dirty. And I'm like I don't understand.
Speaker 1:That's the intention that my husband because I sometimes get a five minute lecture by the dishwasher and show me again how I've stacked the dishwasher wrong, but how I should be stacking it right and I'm going to look at them and think I mean I don't fucking care, I don't care about the dishwasher, I have got so many important things to do Exactly. That includes saving the world. I don't care about the dishwasher. Yeah, that's the kind of things it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3:No, it is funny. I thought I'd say to my mum I'm so busy. I'd be like but what is that? He did once say to me what is it that you've got? Why are you so overwhelmed? What is it that you have? Tell me what's on your list. And I was like well, and I couldn't reel it off, even though I felt so overwhelmed inside. I was like shit, but I knew I had things to do.
Speaker 1:Just all in there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but then on the flip side, there are days when I'm like blah, blah, blah, blah and he's like OK, ok, ok, no, it's fine. But yeah, at one time I thought I actually can't think of anything and this is really embarrassing. But yeah, he will moan at me and be like you've not done this. And I could get it, because, on the flip side, if that was me and I didn't, you would be like what the fuck? Yeah, how can you? You stood there for 10 minutes washing something and it still felt like how have you missed that?
Speaker 3:But yeah, so I got my diagnosis, I agreed with everything he had said, and then he did also say do you want? We can screen you and you can go through the process of getting screened for autism. And I was like one thing at a time please, this will do for now. And I'm less like. I don't know if I'm on the spectrum or not. I probably am. I think everybody probably is to a degree. But I was like if I am, I am, that's fine. I don't feel like that's going to impact me as much as this part and actually I just want to get this bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and actually understand about it. For the ADHD, it can be medicated to help with the symptoms. It's less less so with the autism, isn't?
Speaker 3:it yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You've got it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Thanks, and I think it's going to change. So now I was like, yeah, thanks, I'll have to think about that, but I'm not going to do that for a while at all. So but then he was like, ok, well, there's options, we can take the medication if you want to do that. Some people just like to have the diagnosis and know that that's enough. And I was like well, I want to try the medications because, obviously, if things don't have to be as they are now, I realize that I don't have to cope with what I'm doing is coping and this isn't actually a functional way or normal way of behaving. Then I don't have to have random outbursts of frustration and anger because I don't know why. Then I'd quite like to try that, and I was.
Speaker 3:What I was really keen to do is to feel the difference in your brain activity. So a lot of times I lay in bed and Tom will say to me Sophie, I can hear your brain ticking and I'm like what? And because he knows I'm like bad, bad, bad, bad, something just won't switch off. He always says to me I can hear your brain ticking and I'm like OK, so yeah, I got that. I said I want to try the medication and he's like that's fine, we'll refer you to the titration team. That was then another wait list, but still a lot less than you would on the NHS and I said that, truly, I don't mind, I'm not like, oh my god, this is ruining my life.
Speaker 3:I've got the diagnosis now. That's great. I can go away, I can learn more about that and I have at least I have a reason. I don't want to be that person that blames things on my condition, because that's just not who I am.
Speaker 1:But at least I do know, or I do know in a kind of comedic way. I've been to say oh, can you go and do this? I'm like no, I'm sorry, I can't because I have a disability, so I'm unable to achieve that. And then he'll say stuff to me like oh, here's, you guys again playing the ADHD card and I'm like but you can't see that now because you know that's discriminatory. What you're saying to me Legal, you can't, so I could get you sued for that.
Speaker 3:It's so true, it's true. I'd be like, yeah, I'm like, oh, like the other day I said when I was cleaning, and he was like, why is this not that Like he's got so straight? And I was like inattentive ADHD. And he was like OK, I told you, I'm trying my hardest. Yeah, have what you wish for, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:You told me I had it and now here I am, yeah, and he was like, oh God, ok, but yeah. So I was like that's fine, I don't need that to be this manic rush, it's coming, that's cool, that's fine. And then, whilst I was waiting for that, I remember I was on a work trip I was still in the national world at this point and I was with my colleagues and I was the youngest in my team, because it's quite a senior, like. Their roles were a lot more senior as well. They've been very experienced.
Speaker 3:So a lot of my team were probably late 40s, most of them 50s, and again, their sort of era of parenthood and things was like ADHD doesn't exist, it's just an excuse for you badly to behave children, blah, blah, blah. And I remember being sat there at a pub table like waiting. We were just chatting and they were talking. I can't remember how it came into conversation, but they were talking about someone that had anxiety and had been medicated for that, and then they were told they had ADHD and I was like you've got my life, I don't know who's the first. And they were like, oh, but it's all just a load of nonsense, like it's all just an excuse, and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 3:And I sat there and I was like I'm not going to say anything and I screwed my teeth and I was like maybe I do need to say something, because then I was like, well, and they just kept going on. They were speaking and they didn't mean to. It's like an unconscious bias, but I was like the way you sound is really derogatory and actually it's really not acceptable. If I didn't know you, I would feel really intimidated and really not very welcomed right now to hear what you're saying. So I thought, well, actually, no, I'm going to say something. They carried on talking and in the end I said, well, how would you feel, what would you say to know that the person sat in front of you right now is that person that you're talking about? And they were like what do you mean? I was like I take antidepressants, I have anxiety and I've got newly diagnosed ADHD.
Speaker 3:And I'm waiting for a titration team. I was like the person that you come to every single day to do and help you with your job because you get overwhelmed and you're calling to help you in your field of expertise has those things. So how does that make you feel? I was like I'm telling you now, if I didn't have that thing, I wouldn't be that person you're calling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you wouldn't be as productive in your job.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and they were like well, I just, oh, I don't know, I don't think it's right, and I was like OK, fine, I just wanted to put it out there. So I'm not here to have an argument about it, but you need to be really careful about what you're saying. And then, actually, we're done for that.
Speaker 1:You know, I think it takes a lot of you to speak up to things like that, but that's what we need more of and we need it across the board in terms of all forms of inequality, feminism, racism, all those things. We need to be activists in speaking up and challenging those subtleties.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's even lower, not as extreme, in terms of people with dyslexia and dyspraxia really struggle, and it's OK, they have a reason for that and they just need a support.
Speaker 2:I suppose there's an argument to be had as well, though that I mean I'm guilty of having those kind of judgy thoughts prior to knowing more about it, and I'm a mental health professional, you know, and it's very subtle that.
Speaker 2:I'm as bad as they are Just thinking about, well, it must just be that, or you know, and it's so. Sometimes it soothes us, I think, to think that well and it feels nice was to think, well, my child's OK, or I'm OK because I did X, y and Z I'm sure they went to bed at this time and they ate this many vegetables. And they did this and they did that. And it's so easy, like you say, if people are probably a generation or two ahead, that the insight sometimes not always, but sometimes it's just not there is it. And I suppose you doing that is part of that movement to not only share your own experience which is really generous, I think, and brave of you to do it in that situation but also to start challenging it. And it's like anything like mental health conditions, like you know, like Laura was saying, any of those diverse populations, it's chip, chip, chip away, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, just those kind of subtle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like you said, Sophie, about, you wouldn't be in that position if you didn't. So can we just stop thinking about it as naughty little boys and start thinking about thinking about ADHD and having that diversity as a real bonus and a real credit?
Speaker 3:to society. Yeah, yeah, and like my parents, even like now. If you ask about my mum, she'll be more amenable to it, but she's like I don't know. And I'm like you are a prime candidate. 100%. You have ADHD, I'm telling you. But she didn't believe in anything. My, my, my part of all people, which he was. When I said before I met you, I didn't really think my mental health existed. I was like, well, you're fucking stupid. Like who didn't think mental health existed? Like where have you been this whole rock?
Speaker 2:But go back to the years and people didn't you know, but like he was like you have therapy as a child.
Speaker 3:What was that about? Like how can it? You just like, you're just belligerent and ignorant to it and that's not. That's not. You can't. You can't live your life like that now Because it's out there. It wasn't 20 years ago and it was acceptable, but it isn't anymore. So you need to get with the times. If you want to get, if you want to progress and be somewhere in life and actually be respected, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's wrong. Just ask and say, yeah, exactly, you don't need to be in denial of those things. And I think people struggle with that because you know back in the day, you don't know, gosh, no, it's very difficult.
Speaker 2:And conversations I have with my dad. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but you know, being late diagnosed it has obviously. It naturally leads you to think which parent is going to all movies? Who's responsible here About me and my husband? We both have it, so our kids don't have a chance. But you know, and speaking to my dad, very kind of old school and just get on with it and don't have to put in some polysoxics, you know. But he's really starting to open up the idea and I start saying to him you know, when I was, when I was explaining my a lot of my characteristics, which he knows, he's quite happy to point them out always has been, he'll say, well, but you've always been like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've always had it.
Speaker 2:Exactly. I've always been like that. And when I say about I was talking yesterday about the QB test, I don't know if you've heard of that, sophie, that so it's a test, that it is a medical device, it's regulated to. I think it's to aid in the diagnosis of ADHD. So my daughter did it. So it's your being filmed by a webcam. It's all on kind of software on the computer. You're being filled by a webcam and you have to sit there for 15 minutes and press the space bar. Every time a circle comes up with an X in it and I say it doesn't have an X in it, you don't press the space bar. That's a massively simplifying it.
Speaker 2:But my daughter, 10, you know she's never struggled with. You know, no one's ever said she's hyperactive or in. You know, particularly in attentive or anything like that. She masks very well, but she, she absolutely couldn't do it. I sat with her. She was extremely restless, up and down off the stalls, she's twirling her hair. She didn't believe it. I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 2:So so I'm explaining this to my dad and he's he's just been protective and probably feeling the negative connotations with the diagnosis that we all have probably experienced, and he said well what he wouldn't find that boring. And I'm like, yeah, you're right, she's compared to children of the same age and demographic as her and she's got 100 percent. So, you know, I think, I think the people who devised it have thought of that, you know, and it's, it's constantly. Isn't it Challenging that? And yeah, yeah, there's, I think, that sort of carry on. Let me, for me as well, it's that it brings in that sense of justice as well that we feel so strongly. And I think I feel it more acutely because I was quite dismissive. I don't think I met that many people who I knew I'd ADHD.
Speaker 3:No saying yeah, yeah. So I think it's the same that I, because it was so to people, didn't know they had it, because they were like, what's just me?
Speaker 1:because, because you've already created a different scenario as to why you're reacting to things in your life the way you are, and I think it brings up so many, I think, understanding the diagnosis a lot, a lot better, as we are, and it's becoming more aware.
Speaker 2:I think it's really it could, really has the potential to shake up the, the healthcare system in in a way that they're probably not prepared for. Yeah, you go into any mental health team. You've probably. There are so many people I can think of who would have been and diagnosed with midwives.
Speaker 3:I'm telling you right now, I think, as a cohort I mean you've got to be mad to be a midwife right now, but you must be cohort 100%, really yeah.
Speaker 2:I think potentially there could be very high numbers of the midwifery profession that are undiagnosed you think about the Clish who did my assessment and said that should they tend to get a lot of healthcare professionals and a lot of software engineers Interesting?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and.
Speaker 2:I'm obviously healthcare professional. My husband, his background, is in software as well. Yeah, yeah, hyatrice has ADHD, you know, and really open about it, and it's so refreshing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is, and that is the thing, isn't it? To be open and honest, it's like, actually, and since, since I have like, since I've had it, I haven't like Shouted about it in terms of hosting. Now I've started my Instagram now, but that's actually since. That was since the medication journey, but since diagnosis someone's asked me about it or mentioned it I've talked, I've sort of come up in conversation in the amount of people that were like, actually, I think I might have, I might have it, and oh, I've been thinking that for a while, but I just didn't really know where to go with it. And a lot of my colleagues were like oh my god, what can you shut? Can you tell me what you've done? I literally was with one a couple of days ago at a wedding and she was like Sophie, I am you like, we are the same, how did you get this? Like? And she was just like oh my god, what can you do? And I was like okay, right, it's fine, you can do this, and just being vulnerable.
Speaker 2:Being able to be vulnerable and share If you're comfortable with that, is so powerful, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah and actually you know you should be so proud of yourself, sophie, because in your position as Head of midwifery is that right? You're head midwifery, and for which hospital?
Speaker 3:Gloucester so it's quite quite a new thing, but yeah um, the last couple of months of I started in May, so yeah, but what?
Speaker 1:a. You know what a massive thing. You're setting such a good example for All those other you know maternity professionals that you are, you can so openly talk about this. It massively helps to reduce the stigma. It's giving me goosebumps, but I just think that and I feel really privileged to be able to, you know, facilitate this platform for you to be able to have your voice heard in a way that it's not been heard yet.
Speaker 1:Um, and I just think there's so much scope of what you can do with this now. Yeah, so you might have seen my neuroneal stuff that's um on instagram. So it is a company that I've trademarked now, but my hope is that and I hope to get you on board with it as well um, because we don't know enough about it, do we? And the within pregnancy, in the postnatal period. But actually, um, I prepared a 10 minute um video presentation for the neurodivergent birth. That's um, a workshop that's facilitated by two doulas. Um, I did it online and I was like, oh my god, oh my god, this is massive. What is such a massive topic and there's so much work to be done.
Speaker 1:Yeah and I know sometimes it can be a bit of a rat race where people are like oh no, well, I'm doing that, I'm doing that, so we don't want them doing it. It's a massive and actually I think we should all be collaborating to, you know, put our minds together and really start changing the narrative around about the care that we're providing for the women and their families, but equally for ourselves.
Speaker 1:Look at the amount of midwives that are leaving the profession. It's frightening, and actually they're all suffering from burnout. How many of those are completely overwhelmed because of undiagnosed neurodivergence? You know, we just don't have the right support systems and the trauma experience as well. The trauma Precisely yeah.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and so that's my kind of vision for the neuronatal project that you know we can get as many people on board as a bit of a passion project, but launch it out to you know, you try it out in Gloucester and you know we just we have provisions for staff and we have provisions for Parents, but we also, you know, feed it through. I don't know what notes system you use. We still here in Guernsey use the Perinatal Institute handwritten notes and there's nothing about your neuro status in that we don't ask the question. No, how many times I've been looking after women in labour and it might say or she has autism, or might say that she has ADHD, and I, completely Previously, have disregarded that before. I've, you know where, have my own diagnosis, I think. I think I look at it through that different lens.
Speaker 1:It massively impacts their whole journey, particularly in the postnatal Period very sharp drop of estrogen and you know a lot of women find that their symptoms get better in pregnancy. And you know they might take themselves off those Antidepressants or whatever that they've been on this whole time, when actually they're, they're about to Approach from the most Vulnerable time. Yeah, not just because they're a postnatal woman, because every postnatal woman is vulnerable, but especially those with Neurodivergence, particularly when it's undiagnosed and yeah there are a lot of things that I could sit here and talk about, because my mind just it just affects so many areas.
Speaker 2:Structure. Don't you need an infrastructure that's gonna then carry that through, isn't it? So you pick up on ADHD. What do you do with that?
Speaker 3:information Exactly, I think it brings it into the whole. So the single delivery plan, which obviously I don't know if you guys are aware, but it has sort of has relaunched and is it has tried to incorporate and and amalgamate every single report that's happened and every recommendation into one, because they're all overlapping and whatnot else. But one of the biggest emphasis is around in, is around inequalities, but and what I often talk about is there's there's a quality and there's equity, and they're two very different things. So actually a woman that presents to you in labor, who is a complete low risk for want of a better word, you know, doesn't have any associated issues, will very happily require one path, need one pathway.
Speaker 3:But somebody else that comes in, who, who is neurodivergent and has does have issues of communicating or they're, you know the way they react to things and whatever, yeah, and how they process pain and yeah. But but by definition, obstetrically they are low risk because they don't have a medical requirement. They don't, their pregnancy has been fine, so they could take the same pathway, but actually they can't because equality would be. Yes, they can take the same pathway because they both, equally, are suitable for that pathway in terms of their requirements medically but actually equitably. It's completely inappropriate because actually one of those needs something different but then to both get the same outcome, the same experience and to same satisfaction, they need different things and that's equity, not equality, and I think people need to really be very, very clear about that, because it that it's two different, completely different things and two ways to approach in things, and I myself I've I've been guilty of overlooking neurodivergence and yeah, you do, because it's not directly Impacted in that moment.
Speaker 1:That you're you know, you're reviewing that and you're kind of, yeah, quick thinking, we'll discuss women need to go, yeah, to get a reviewed by such and such a person.
Speaker 2:A hierarchy of need as well, isn't that you? Like yeah, because if you're dealing with an obstetric emergency, it's.
Speaker 1:That's not in the forefront of your mind.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but actually if you're going for a grade one section and you've got somebody with autism that really struggles to communicate Exactly, you can't say you've got consent from that person.
Speaker 1:Yeah if you're not making that, you know it's actually making it the other issue is that this generation of buffing people that are coming through females Underdiagnosed. So you know accommodations and things that we can put into practice Across the board for the neurotypical people and the undiagnosed neurodivergence and the diagnosed neurodivergence you know it needs to be across the board. So yeah, so that affects for everybody, don't?
Speaker 2:you also think that Sorry, laura, cutting cross here, I know that often, but Don't don't you think so that the, the skills the health professionals if we were talking about midwives in particular need to to manage people of different backgrounds, different you know lots of different diversities the, the skills are actually the same, aren't they? That the core skills are being compression, being non-judgmental, being kind and and being really kind of what's the word? Seeing somebody as an individual rather than you know, yeah, yeah, that kind of individualized.
Speaker 2:That's sometimes in my experience. If I think back to my kind of birthing experiences, you know I had, I had a c-section. It was Um. It was very stressful because I couldn't get the, the anaesthetic in. I was extremely and anyone would be, I know they would Um, but I just couldn't talk. I couldn't talk people. But you know what the. They had one. I don't know what the process is, but they had one theater nurse who was Particularly just kind of. He was just stood there trying to make me laugh. He didn't make me laugh but he was being kind you know when he was just showing.
Speaker 2:I know I can see you're uncomfortable and and I'm here and those things, those things are fundamental. Those things Surely we, you know we should all be doing anyway there are the things you remember as well which they are, they are, they're little.
Speaker 3:It's the little things that people kind of disregard. And, like I've been up sometimes you, you we're so thin on the ground and you're in theater and you are so focused on, like task orientated I need to get this done's. Baby needs to come out but then you're like, holy shit, I haven't spoke to the woman, like I know. You know it's, it's, it's really difficult.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, it's difficult for for you in that, in that situation, to manage it, manage all the needs of that woman and the baby, and and, and and. But I think most of us is kind of empathic. Humans understand when someone's really trying to care, and be kind means so much, doesn't it? It really does, yeah, and, and you're right, people remember it. Well, I don't know any woman who doesn't remember her birth story.
Speaker 2:It's always, you know, it's such an important, important time and In a family's life, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, but yeah, there is um there is a lot of work, would you?
Speaker 3:would you be happy if I added you to my neuronal project.
Speaker 1:What's that group? Yeah, sure, just um. I mean, I don't really know how it's going to evolve yet, but I was thinking along the lines of look up first of all a zoom call with everybody that's keen so that I can just explain kind of the vision and have these conversations. A bit potential, you know, learning opportunities and and all that kind of stuff. Um, yeah, no, definitely, but um, yeah, just going back to.
Speaker 3:Sort of within the workplace. It was really refreshing that my current boss, when I because when I started in glossed eye was just about to start with my medication and I was like, oh god, what a time to start, like and and, for me it's an hour and a half, it's a, it's about an hour and a half drive each way, oh my god, yeah, it's a long way. For me it's an 80 mile trip there and an 80 mile trip back. So do you love?
Speaker 1:do you love, look, having the music on and it's like a whole so facial. You just send me this private concert.
Speaker 3:I love podcasts more than anything else, so and I'm always about comedy podcasts, occasional mental health, but the most important thing is just comedy podcasts and I just crack up the whole way. Um, and you don't have to pay attention that much to know what's going on, whereas with everything else you're like, oh god, I missed that bit. Um, yeah, so I'm quite happy and it goes as quick as then you think it does. I've got a good system in that regard. But I was like a lot of these medications it says don't drive, I can't not drive to Gloucester, like getting a train is more expensive than the fuel, which was saying something. So I'm gonna have to be up with you know, upfront and honest with, with, with my current boss, and but I, as soon as I spoke to her, I wasn't really anxious either. I just I built a bit of a network and a relationship with her. Anyway, I knew she was going to be. She's lovely, like absolutely the definition of an amazing midwife, like she just oozes like compassion. And I spoke to I said oh, you know, explain the situation. And she was like Sophie, I Understand, said my daughter has said my daughter, her daughter's got like really severe dyslexia and she's like she struggled with certain things and obviously she has to. She approaches things differently to to to get the same outcome that others.
Speaker 3:Much was like if you ever need to have a break, if you ever need anything in place to, you know you need to walk away from it. You need to change something, you know you just need to sort of let your brain rest for a minute. But whatever you need, just let me know Whatever. We and I was like, oh my god. And then I said about the medication side of it. I was like, look, there is a potential like no one with any medication. I don't know how I'm going to react, but these are some of the common ones and I don't want to be really driving, but I do really want to try this.
Speaker 3:And she was like you have to try it, we can make it work. You know, she was really accommodating and instead and there was no like oh God, this is gonna be awkward, sort of I couldn't, I can't broach this again. And it was so refreshing to have that from her. But it made me then embrace it even more, because I wasn't like, oh shit about work. Like you know, as much as Thankfully I haven't had to not go into work because of it, she's like it, they've been okay. But I Know that, god forbid, if I'm like, I feel like absolute death because of this. I could phone her and say I've had this reaction, like I don't think I can come in, and she would say, sophie, it's fine and that was so nice to have that. And I'm like, oh my god that you know, yeah, massive relief. And actually and she went so for your way, you are because of that.
Speaker 2:She said please embrace it and I was like you get it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you know, and she said my daughter's like she's, she's flying, but she just does things a little bit differently but she's not ultimately gets there. And it's the same, like my trajectory, my, my pathway into this position Hasn't been a traditional part, like little pathway that I followed and that's what people gets picked, get people's backs up, but we haven't been a major and she can't line manage them. I'm like sorry you don't need to have been something to line manage something like that's utter nonsense, so you don't need to have had a baby to be a medwraith.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. So yeah, I think people get bit riled up, but to have that response from her was just lovely. And she'll ask me, like how's it going, uk? Like you know anything, you tell me. So that was really nice from her. Yeah, and let's look at me talk to you about my medication.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm just conscious of the time. I'm gonna need to leave shortly, because I work in a sexual health clinic and Monday's and Tuesday's and I sat at 12, so I'm gonna need to leave the house in the next kind of 10 15 minutes. Yeah, that's fine, and I was thinking, though, that we should maybe do a part two, because, yeah, I think there's really loads of Good content so we can talk about the medication.
Speaker 2:Definitely, because that's a big, big thing, isn't it? Yeah, and most people we talk to are like, yeah, I've got it. It's great, you know. So, hearing the other, yeah.
Speaker 1:I know that you've obviously you've started and you've and You've kind of gone back to them and said, no, no, this one's not right for me, because of it. I think, I think it's really important and I want to be able to capture that as well. And is that okay then? If we yeah, I'm reschedule then for a part two. Yeah, unless, louise, you have time to carry on.
Speaker 2:I've got to go as I've got a client, but I did. Yeah, I'm the same. I really do want to hear, and it would be nice and it would be good for us to explore a little bit more about where you think, where you think you can Implement more sorry, yes, what Laura's saying implement Strategies, processes to, yeah, and who are new division and new screening, what you think about screening all of those, yeah, yeah, to explore and also how to how to help the midwives?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. The MSW's, whoever in, particularly as well the students, I think, because they're and I've had quite a few students contact me since I'm posting on Instagram- no, she's gone again.
Speaker 2:I thought she just lost a train of thought that happens to. Yeah, I think that would be really, really great and and I think it's it's amazing that you're in the position You're in and we can showcase. Come on, you know women. Yeah we can do this, it's good. Let's the strength face. Yeah, I'm absolutely certain.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I'm happy. I'm happy to talk back to anyone that will listen to be honest with you. Yeah, thank you so much for having me then.
Speaker 1:I'm absolutely Soon then yeah, enjoy your day, thank you. Thank you, and we'll speak to you soon.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:See you later.