Ever wondered what it's like to navigate life when your brain is a Ferrari with bicycle brakes? Meet Laura and Dawn, co-hosts of the podcast ADHD as Females, who chronicle their journey through late ADHD diagnosis and treatment. Their podcast, a labour of love, has become a beacon of hope for people around the world, shedding light on issues of mental health, women's health, and the challenges in our healthcare system.
Laura and Dawn guide us through the labyrinth of accumulated shame that often shadows relationships and candidly share their struggle to stand up for themselves in the medical world, challenge biases, and to seek validation. We also explore the illusion of contentment we often create for ourselves, even when dissatisfaction gnaws at our hearts.
Dive into the fascinating discussion about the potential undiagnosed cases of ADHD among women, the stigma surrounding women's mental health, and the battle for diagnosis and treatment. Laura and Dawn share their personal experiences with the diagnosis process and the hurdles they faced. They further delve into the complex relationship between ADHD, food, and addictive behaviors, and the journey to self-acceptance. We wrap up the episode with an exciting discussion about future collaborations. Join us as we unpack these issues and more with our incredible guests, Laura and Dawn. Their resilience and courage are sure to inspire and motivate.
SUPPORT #accessdeniedND here: https://www.adhdasfemales.com/merchandise/p/new-leopard-print-army-fundraiser-pin
Outro
This is a special edition episode recorded from a webinar.
Ever wondered what it's like to navigate life when your brain is a Ferrari with bicycle brakes? Meet Laura and Dawn, co-hosts of the podcast ADHD as Females, who chronicle their journey through late ADHD diagnosis and treatment. Their podcast, a labour of love, has become a beacon of hope for people around the world, shedding light on issues of mental health, women's health, and the challenges in our healthcare system.
Laura and Dawn guide us through the labyrinth of accumulated shame that often shadows relationships and candidly share their struggle to stand up for themselves in the medical world, challenge biases, and to seek validation. We also explore the illusion of contentment we often create for ourselves, even when dissatisfaction gnaws at our hearts.
Dive into the fascinating discussion about the potential undiagnosed cases of ADHD among women, the stigma surrounding women's mental health, and the battle for diagnosis and treatment. Laura and Dawn share their personal experiences with the diagnosis process and the hurdles they faced. They further delve into the complex relationship between ADHD, food, and addictive behaviors, and the journey to self-acceptance. We wrap up the episode with an exciting discussion about future collaborations. Join us as we unpack these issues and more with our incredible guests, Laura and Dawn. Their resilience and courage are sure to inspire and motivate.
SUPPORT #accessdeniedND here: https://www.adhdasfemales.com/merchandise/p/new-leopard-print-army-fundraiser-pin
Outro
This is a special edition episode recorded from a webinar.
Well, good morning everyone. We are Louise and I are, beside ourselves, very excited to welcome ADHD as females, laura and Dawn, to our podcast today. Hello Hi, how are you Good? Thank you, how are you, yeah?
Speaker 2:good, not bad at all.
Speaker 1:It's very exciting to have you here, isn't it, louise? We have chatted about these lassies for some time.
Speaker 3:We have heard about you for some time I actually. So when Laura suggested that I might have ADHD in true ADHD fashion, I thought I'll get myself a podcast. I'll listen to a podcast, right, I'll find out about it. Completely Didn't agree with this, and I came across your podcast and I thought, oh, in the flavour of being organised, I'll start with the first episode. Well, I'm jumping to the latest, which is what I normally do, and so I listened to your first episode and I've got to confess, I haven't listened to any more, and the reason is that we're sharing.
Speaker 2:That's all annoying I can feel everyone's tension.
Speaker 3:Like you know, your whole substance rests on me. Listening to your podcast, absolutely doesn't. But because I was just in denial, I just thought I I mean, I recognise what these ladies are saying, but I don't have ADHD. But I'll tell you one thing that I took away from it and I'm really grateful is it your theme tune? Because I can sing it all the fucking time in my head. Oh, my god, that is like. What do you call them? Like earworms or something? Yeah, and in the essence of meeting you guys today, I started listening to your most latest episodes and have you like tweaked that? It sounds really professional now that your theme tune. No, the theme tune is the same, isn't it? It's the same. I think yesterday. Yeah, maybe there has been some little tweaks with the sound and stuff. That's that's made. I think it was that but the tune and everything isn't it and the words. But well done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just wanted to let you know that. Thank you so much for having us and thank you for putting up with us for at least one episode.
Speaker 1:I must say I've listened to probably about five or six episodes. But you are competing with the Parenting Health podcast by Josh with the coming Rob Beckett, have you heard? If you listen to them it's absolutely hilarious. Yeah, I've heard of their podcast. I've not listened to it. So I flip kind of flip between yours and theirs. Yeah, I do really enjoy listening to your tales. I think you two have just got such a kind of dynamic energy between the two of you, so tell us a little bit more Any news today.
Speaker 3:Hi, daryl, that's for sure, it's a full moon last night, so it's been a good sleep so long this morning.
Speaker 1:Yeah right go for it. Then tell us about yourselves, tell us how you came to be friends and your journey to ADHD.
Speaker 3:Do you want to start? Yeah, well, we met in the midst of the pandemic. Both of us moved to Fiti, which is a little seaside village on Aberdeen Beach and, yeah, it's called Foot D. It's at the foot of the river, by the harbour and it's a little tiny little village. It's in the city but it's like a 15 minute walk away from the city centre but you're very much separated from the rest of the city and it's a quirky kind of like little place. There's a lot of creatives and stuff down here. Obviously, laura and I both were drawn to it and we moved in like more or less the same time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got the house, but I moved in maybe three weeks or four weeks after dawn did and I basically stalked Dawn and bullied her into being my friend. So we literally were moving to this place and, being a nerd, I was looking at pictures of it on social media and this one popped up with like I've just moved to Fiti on Instagram and so I'm moving and so I made her be my friend and as soon as, as soon as the restrictions were lifted enough, we and we were allowed to socialise outside.
Speaker 2:My husband and I had a barbecue and literally the first thing Dawn said was sorry if I talk too much. I think I've got ADHD, me too, and that was how it started. So that was like April 2021, and on the 2nd of May 2022 was when we launched ADHD as females, the podcast which literally documents both of our late diagnosis. We don't have the word journey, so we say safari, our late days safaris, and can explain hell of a hell of a ride. We've literally put a year, well over a year now, of our lives into this thing that we've grown, and it grows and grows and grows. It's a real labour of love. It's a lot of work, but, um, yeah, it's our life mission.
Speaker 3:Basically, that's what we're doing and it's so important you're playing feedback. Sorry Laura, you get you getting lots of like lovely stories from people saying you know the immaturity All day, every day, from all around the world.
Speaker 2:It's overwhelming, unbelievable and half the time we're like who are they talking about?
Speaker 3:yeah, it's hard. I find it quite hard to to put the two things together when people are saying things that we've helped them so much and it's hard to kind of quantify that and actually be like, oh, we've done that. Yeah, it's like it is difficult to get your head around that. But yeah, we get so many lovely comments, people telling us we've literally changed their lives and yeah, that led to us wanting to, because we're actually not indoorsy people, we're out out people.
Speaker 2:So we're much better with people than we are like this. So it's just how it, how it panned out. So we were like, right, we want to get amongst it, we want to meet these people, we want to be in the community. So we did a tour back in May. We did well, 16 shows in total. First one was in April and we're now at the UK. So we met loads of people from our community and that has been incredible, hasn't it? And it's really, yeah, we really love doing live shows now.
Speaker 1:So coming to your live one in Guernsey. That's where I live in the Channel Islands. Oh, that would be lovely.
Speaker 2:We'd love to if anybody would come. I don't know what our relationship is there. You and I would come Right we'll see you then, yeah, so is Guernsey where you guys are based, so I'm in Guernsey.
Speaker 1:Louise used to live here, but she fucked off to Chester, so left me. Left me here, yeah.
Speaker 3:I did so. Yeah, I'm in Chester now, but yeah, guernsey's where we, and it's lovely, yeah, trying to get to where our blossoming romance is I'll go halves on a helicopter with you if you want, and we'll just Well, come in, that won't be too expensive. No, you're touring now. You must have your analogue up there. Come on, oh we wish.
Speaker 1:So I mean, how much time are you guys dedicating to this kind of labour of love, as you described it? How much time are you dedicating, kind of daily, to your mission? Have you given up working? Is that?
Speaker 2:Well, we went a bit far, but quite extreme characters. There was a point in time where I was working 18 hour days and then I had a word with myself. So now we're trying to be more structured. So we've got a plan on it. You know, it was just we never really expected anybody to listen to the podcast, except for, like locally, or a few friends. So when it sort of when it was like, oh gosh, we've actually got a thing, and so we ran on a hamster wheel for months and months and months and we weren't really prepared for that and we started in May because I'm at uni at the moment as well.
Speaker 3:So we started. We started the podcast in May, so we had like the whole kind of summer. I was still working throughout the summer, but we had the summer to kind of like do it.
Speaker 2:You thought it was a summer project.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then I went back to uni in September, had a part-time job and was still trying to do what we were doing. So between September and I guess it was April really, from when I was back at uni, like that was a really difficult time for us because we're trying to get the podcast out. Yeah uni and having a part-time job which I was able to give up at Christmas, so it was just after Christmas it was yeah, because we managed to create a community, a Patreon community.
Speaker 2:So it's not. It's not, we don't make a lot of money from it at all, but it was enough to cover what you would earn in a part-time job. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've basically given up everything else, so I'm sort of now we've got more of a structure going on. When we go back to uni, in theory, we'll be able to do different things as well, and it not yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. You have to give your all to something if you're gonna say anything, and I'm a firm believer in that.
Speaker 1:you know, like where change happens is right at the edge of the extreme, isn't it? It's you kind of feel as if you're winging it a bit of imposter syndrome, but it's incredible. So congratulations on that, thank you, I think it's reassuring to hear that you've been able to be a bit more boundary-divouted, because I can imagine yeah, you know, you invest so much of yourself into it and you can quite easily get burnt out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you know, we really love what we're doing, we really believe in what we're doing. It's wonderful for us to have found our people really like you know, especially in the beginning, like, obviously you'll both know when you get a late diagnosis you are picking apart your whole identity, like what's me, what's ADHD, what's people pleasing, blah, blah, blah. You know this kind of new clarity of some of the nonsense you put up as well and as we're going, okay, well, we've got this thing and where's the community? But then within that, you know, one of our core messages is how differently ADHD presents in both of us. Yeah, and then obviously that goes for all of us. Like we're all individuals, so you're going to have people that have different comorbidities.
Speaker 2:For example, you know autism and ADHD are commonly co-occurring. There are different people within the community. We're all individuals just as we are in normal society, right? Yeah, so then it was like okay, what? We're very similar in a lot of ways very different, in that we are quite extreme and we're loud, we're a bit brash, we are quite in your face and in realizing that that's the opposite end of the spectrum to a lot of people that have more sensory issues that wouldn't necessarily like to go out very often or be in loud places or be around a lot of people. We are the opposite end of the spectrum to that.
Speaker 2:So then we realize that a lot of the rhetoric around neurodivergence is focused on people that do have sensory, extreme sensory sensitivities, as opposed to people that are lacking in stimulation, like us. So that's why we really pushed the message on the too much tour to carve a path for people that, like ourselves, who were suddenly like we've just found this community that actually, apparently, we don't even fit into that either. It's like no, we're not having it, because every day people tell us they relate to us or they're like one of us in this way or that way. So it's like right now this is really valid and important and nobody's talking about it. So that's why we encourage people to embrace their too muchness and be loud and swear and cry and talk too much.
Speaker 3:Be themselves essentially.
Speaker 3:and yeah, on apologetically yeah and I think they're the core messages. Even just in life. You take ADHD out of it. I would imagine a bit, particularly if you late diagnosed ADHD. My experience is that I've never felt like I really fit in, but I've always somehow just merged myself into whatever situation I'm in. That's really stressful.
Speaker 3:And then you find a community of people who outwardly you know you're quite similar. Like you say, you've got maybe a diagnosis in common and maybe some of those sensory issues maybe not, maybe, like, like you say, there's, there's lots at play, isn't there? Because you've gotten to an age like what I was 40 when I was diagnosed. I'm still 40 now and where you'll be 40 forever. I've got, I know I've got a lifetime of quirks that I've picked up on top of everything else and and techniques that I've used to cope, and it's mind-numbing. But if you get the fundamentals down just always being like you say, like people just be themselves I think I've always had that attitude. I have always had that attitude, but it's probably come from a place of me feeling like a complete oddball.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And just like loving people who are even more different and thinking, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, spotlight off me, but it's. I would be really agreeable to what you said about finding that community of people who just aren't judging you because you I don't know, god, that I could just go on a list of things like that I think are kind of outside of the norm. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:How many times have we talked about Louise when? And so I don't know if this happened for both of you, and you can share your experience if you're comfortable too. But I have found that since my diagnosis, my, my friendship circle has quite dramatically changed. And that's not because of you, know, I don't like these people anymore. But I've come to realise in the situations where I've been masking yeah and the people who have made me feel comfortable enough that I can be myself like around Louise. I've never felt judged. You know that. She has always been very encouraging to me, in the sense that if I've got a project on the go and a big idea, she'll be like yes, okay, right, let me see how we make this work.
Speaker 1:And then there's people on the other end of the spectrum who you know when you do something that's quite kind of ADHD, something really impulsive that you think is a great idea, and you're kind of doing that consistently, there are those friendships who are like, oh, what are you doing now? Like, oh God, why are you never just happy? You're always looking for something else to do. And then the next thing and the next thing. And you know I've learned and I used to think there was something massively wrong with me. I felt ashamed about it. Yeah, I did believe that. You know, I must have something missing at my core that I just could never be happy with the things that I've got. And obviously I understand that now that I'm just chasing chasing the dope, I mean. But grateful to those friends who have let me do that without judgement.
Speaker 3:Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I've given a lot of space to the ones that didn't, I think like for myself.
Speaker 3:I struggled with my identity and who I was, because I was a chameleon. Depending on which? Yes, exactly. And so there's friends that just kind of allowed me to be myself, yeah. And there's other other friends where I guess they encouraged me to be more like them, and I guess it was because of my. I guess the people pleasing that constant need for acknowledgement and acceptance meant that I was kind of like they'd ask me, you know, they'd be like jumping, I'd be like how high?
Speaker 1:And so there are, and you give yourself to these people to your own judgment.
Speaker 3:And there's lots of people that have definitely taken advantage of that over the years because it's just like, well, you know, donald, do it, and they're not wrong, I would and sometimes that would not end up in great outcomes.
Speaker 3:So, this might seem like a bit. Maybe this is a bit too deep. If it is, we'll just. We'll just crack it out. And a common theme for me and I've seen it with other people is this kind of this buildup of shame, that's kind of this accumulated over the years. You know, you go back to school years. Maybe you weren't performing as well as your peers or you weren't, maybe your relationships were a bit different to your peers and they're going to university and whatever your kind of life cycle has been. And is that something that you guys have said?
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%, I think. Also, you know what we're talking about. There's a statistic I can never remember who said it, but something like neurodivergent children here, 20,000 more negative things on average than neurotypicals. So we're getting it wrong. We're missing the cues, like I was thinking. I was the other day and I was like one of the things my mum used to say to me, ringing in my ears. How many times do I have to tell you? Yeah million more because I'm going to forget and I'm going to do it.
Speaker 2:So we built up all of this shame exactly like today and that erodes at yourself work. It chips away at your self-esteem, you know, and even your self-trust, like I think that's a really big thing because the amount of, I would say definitely in romantic relationships and even some, you know, I won't say other relationships, it's like, you know, I will assume. Historically I used to assume that the other person would be right, so I would fall into the depths of nonsense, knowing in your head I'd be like this doesn't sound like a good idea.
Speaker 2:This isn't something I should do, but I must be wrong, because I'm always wrong, so I'll follow them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, you've hit the nail in the head, bear. I think so. I mean in situations where that, I think, applies to my life professionally. If I was I don't know challenging a medical decision at work where I have a lady in labour, I would automatically assume that I was wrong and they were right. But actually, probably somewhere deep in you know, in my knowledge, somewhere I probably knew that it was me that was right, but I just really struggled to have the techniques to challenge that.
Speaker 3:That's it. That's from yourself.
Speaker 1:So you just let someone else take, take lead or whatever, absolutely, because you always just think that you're less, than that you don't know as much.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I catch myself, catch myself even lying to myself. It's almost like trying to convince myself otherwise. So, like little things, like it's just like. No, this is just how I want it to be. Almost it's like if I convinced myself this way, it's not going to feel bad about that thing, that I feel bad about Little things, like, you know, being single, for example. Like I'm single and so I convince. Like I get to the point where it's like I convince myself that I'm happy on my own, because I don't want other people to see me unhappy or desperate, to appear that I'm, you know, sad about being on my own.
Speaker 3:So I convince myself that I'm okay. I think you can overcompensate in those situations as well. Yeah, I think that's exactly. There's so many situations like that, but it's not that I'm sitting here saying that I'm miserable on my own. I'm not, but I know that I probably would like to find someone more than I'm letting on to people.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:I'm telling myself, because I tell people I'm saying you know I'm happy on my own, like I love single life. Love, love, love, love.
Speaker 1:I think there is part of that that is not just convincing them, but it's convincing you and actually do you feel as if now you know if you were to be seeking a partner, your standards would be higher since your diagnosis because you know? Before you might just have been like oh, I'm so grateful. It's very interesting Straight away that you've shown an interest in me.
Speaker 3:but yeah, you should tell the story about when you went on that day, yeah, so yeah, I mean my last relationship. I won't go into too much details, but that was. That wasn't a great relationship and it taught me a lot. Essentially led me to my diagnosis, because I wasn't in a good place afterwards and I realised OK, why did I stay in that relationship so long?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And actually.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you're probably really grateful for that. I think, where situations have been shit, it's really important for us to be able to reframe it, isn't it? Absolutely. That's my wee boy. You can hear him. He's saying Mum, you have to stop swearing. He's like this wear him please, because we're in the same level. He's like I'm doing the podcast. He's wee heads cups up. Look, can you see You're back in film? What's the latest? Yeah, oh, I'm going to get my wee police hat.
Speaker 3:But, but yeah, sorry, what was I saying?
Speaker 2:About relationships, not the new standards, yeah.
Speaker 3:So like, obviously it was a horrible time that I went through, but I realised looking back that had I been in a better place, I probably wouldn't even got into that relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's those 20,000 negative things, yeah.
Speaker 3:But obviously I allowed things to happen and thought this was, you know, as good as I was going to get and all I deserved, exactly yeah, yeah. So it's taught me a lot and, like you say, I am grateful for that relationship because if it wasn't for that then I probably would be who I am right now.
Speaker 1:So it's, all part of that process. It's led you on to different trajectory, almost, but it still doesn't make you know situations that happened in that relationship.
Speaker 3:okay, but it can still acknowledge. But it can change the shoes to dress.
Speaker 3:But yeah but going on from that, I have had a couple of dates and stuff, since I'm not really actively dating the snout of anything. I'm just to be honest, I am too busy. And adjustment, yeah, if it happens organically, great, but I'm not really looking for it. Yeah, and I think a while ago I was kind of dating and I walked out and I've dated based on a person's profile. I've dressed for that date based on their profile, what I think they want to date.
Speaker 1:With like blind people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I would put so much pressure on myself for them to like me, I wouldn't actually be paying any attention. Yes, oh my god. So I would come away from that date being like did they like me, Did they like me? And not one thought is do I like them? It was just constantly seeking that validation, which meant I was going into it incorrectly anyway. But the most recent date I was on, I thought about what I was going to wear and I was like, oh, I'm maybe not going to wear this because I don't think they'd like it. And I was like no, no, fuck them. So I was like.
Speaker 3:No, I dressed exactly how I wanted to dress and I went to the date and I walked in and as soon as I walked in I was just like you know what, probably not compatible. Do I like them? And then, yeah, exactly, I'm attempting, but no.
Speaker 1:And that was it.
Speaker 3:And I went there being like, am I interested in you? And I wasn't worried, I wasn't nervous about them looking at me and thinking what they thought of me, because I'm like that's really matter at this point. I'm like I'm here to find out whether it's worth me getting to know you anymore. And we had the date. It was fine, it was pleasant. I knew that it wasn't going to go anywhere and so I went away from that and I felt empowered because it's just like, yes, I've been me. I've, you know, not just been looking for validation. In fact, I didn't really care about any validation, because I got that validation from myself.
Speaker 2:That's the difference. Amazing, that's incredible. As yourself made the judgment from your perspective. Not like Taking back your power instead of giving it to them, giving it to the stream, to validate you.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you look back I don't know, say two years ago, how much you know your kind of mindset has changed. That's probably an incredible you know progression from where you were.
Speaker 3:That's it, and I think in the past as well, like my, dating wasn't really about finding someone. It was about finding validation, and so that's part of the reason why I didn't have successful relationships. Yeah, and so now it's like because I'm not looking for that validation, one of the reasons why I'm not looking for a relationship, because of validation from anyone. So if something happens, I'm going to meet someone, great, but no rush, it doesn't mean it still means I'd like to meet someone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course you know, but the super interesting because on our Discord server there's a channel like those relationships channels, the channel about sex. You know, and you've never, you've never seen the word narcissist so many times in one day, having an artist called server, and seemingly we are magnets for it. And it works that way because people who know self esteem, people who are people please, list, and then you've got somebody who wants narcissistic supply and to be able to control something because they just want to please.
Speaker 3:It's a match made in hell, but often you know, yeah, it's often the right foot with its own excitement. And you know, yeah, and that's why we end up falling in. What are?
Speaker 2:the thoughts of relationships, not just romantic relationships, for you. You know I'm on medication and the medication has really cleared a lot of noise in my mind. It isn't a magic pill. I don't not have ADHD anymore, unfortunately. No, no, no, and that was such a wake up call. You look around you and you can see the people who benefit from you just not being a person and doing whatever they want. It's clear to you and you're like okay, no, not anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I think that is really quite a revolution, but I've just I've never heard it verbalized that before and that actually has been a big penny drop in moment for me there, not so much in terms of romantic relationships. I've been married to my husband for 10 years, been together for 17,. We met at school, but most of in terms of friendships. I've often gotten to friendships that that I don't actually consider whether those friendships, whether I actually like the person or value the person I always will. You stop, what Language? And I think that that's really important. I'm gonna write that down in my journal for today, yeah, and just kind of recognising your own whuff. And what about you, laura? So you're married.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right. I've been married, coming up, for four years.
Speaker 1:And when you got married, did you suspect that you had ADHD?
Speaker 2:then I did suspect because I had a conversation with a friend. I believe it was 2018. I've got dyscalculia and I'm very forgetful, so dates aren't really my bag, but as my memory recalls, it was at the end of 2018. I had a conversation with a friend who told me that they had just been diagnosed and to my mind, obviously there's a lot of nasty stuff, but to my mind, this person was sorted. Good job, ducks in a row, nothing had it all together. Yeah. So I was just like explain this to me, because all I had in my head was a stereotype like everybody else naughty little boys leaping around, whatever else and so when she explained the different ways that it impacts her life, I was like, oh gosh, well, have you got it? I've definitely got it. And she was like, yeah, that. So I went to the NHS completely glueless, thinking it would be the same as anything else You've got a broken leg or you've got you know, I have no idea. And somebody said, oh, there might be a bit of a wait, and I'm thinking, okay, a couple of months, I have no idea. So that was 2018. So then we got married, august 2019, still waiting.
Speaker 2:Then obviously the pandemic hit and then we moved and then it was when Dawn said I'm going to go for a diagnosis. I was just like, oh, I already tried that and I haven't heard anything, but was very fortunate and privileged that my husband's work got me access to private healthcare. Wow, I certainly wouldn't be able to afford to pay for that. So then I, as Dawn, went for hers, I went for mine, and obviously you know the answer to that was I was going to say a lot quicker so I got diagnosed. That was April, wasn't it? I got diagnosed in January of 2021 and then I got medicated in March and we started the podcast, didn't we?
Speaker 1:Wow, and Dawn do you have. Are you on medication now?
Speaker 3:Yes, I started medication just at Christmas past. Ghost of Christmas, the ghost of Christmas, but yeah. So I had gone through the NHS initially, but it was a bit of an ordeal and I basically had my assessment and I was told that my next appointment would be in four months and I wasn't given any other person.
Speaker 3:And potentially in four. Yeah, and they told me, you know, it takes approximately eight hours to diagnose someone and this is the process, and I basically threw a big drop in his office. Why does it take eight hours when I know that you know someone else that's been diagnosed privately has been diagnosed in an hour? I don't understand. So, you know and he just said our process is more thorough and I'm like so are you invalidating that other person's diagnosis or anyone?
Speaker 1:else.
Speaker 3:Good for you. Diagnosed, because that's what it sounds like to me. And he's like no, I'm not saying that. And I was like, well, what are you saying? So, yeah, I threw a bit of a straw.
Speaker 2:Because, at the end of the day, when we know that that can be the case and we know how much the governments of blood to the NHS try with resources and finances, why are you going to spend eight hours of precious NHS?
Speaker 1:time. Yes, exactly what it's not been in an hour.
Speaker 3:And to make things worse, I, because I'm at uni I'd gone through an educational psychologist at uni who have done an assessment on me for dyslexia, dyspraxia and ADHD and had confirmed to me, I had ADHD. So that was in the September before. So it took up until I think it was a year before I got my NHS assessment and I had that report which I handed in to the psychiatrist, which you would think might matter a little bit, but apparently doesn't. Yeah, well, I was going to say this did that not carry any weight?
Speaker 3:Well, it didn't make a difference. It's a really misplaced elitism. I think I said it in the past of some day it makes absolutely no sense and the bureaucracy and the sense of it feeds into all of our senses of oh, I'm wasting your time since you're wrong with me, just pull these all together. And I'm not saying that's every service, but it's incredible how you just cannot get help and I understand that my sister-in-law recently has an eight year old daughter and anyway she wants to get her assessed. There are lots of like glaring and obvious issues that I think in my mind there's no doubt, but obviously you need to go through the process.
Speaker 3:Yeah, once the GP. The GP, honestly it could have been an AI during that consultation because I went with them, because my sister-in-law wanted that support. She has aged herself and probably autism, and she was just like you know they're always just like kind of bamboo or something. I was like, fine, I'll come with you the doctor and this is no personal blame because I know they're busy, but it was like, like I said, an AI could have done.
Speaker 3:You could have asked the chap GPT to do that consultation and they probably would have come up with better answers to put on the referral form. The referral form goes off to a company who are commissioned by the NHS to do the assessments in that area. Yeah, they've immediately had a rejection letter saying we've rejected your referral, there's not enough evidence there. And it's like, oh my God, what do we have to do here? Well, can you not just assess? Then Can you not just say well, I'll put you on the waiting list.
Speaker 1:Why are they the?
Speaker 3:GPT's set. I was saying to my brother and sister-in-law the issue is that that company have got this contract now with the NHS and so they're able to kind of rub their hands together, so to speak, financially, but they're going to be inundated. So you know, and I've worked, obviously, I've worked in mental health, I've worked in the NHS and you know it's never anything personal to the patient, but if you get a referral for it and there's one thing on there that means that they wouldn't fit your team or your referral criteria, you're like, oh great, that's not my problem, now I can turn that back. Yeah, yeah, and pressure and it's so.
Speaker 2:It just feels so backward to me and on top of that, on top of all of that, you know the absolute irony that we have to battle the very side of the confusion that we need help with in order to access the help.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:People who will avoid doing it, and my sister-in-law is a perfect example. But I don't want to go because they're always just negative. Yeah, oh, that's not the case.
Speaker 1:The other thing that really infuriates me is I've heard quite a few people say there's no point in me going private because the NHS won't accept a private diagnosis. Now that baffles me, because the majority of these private psychiatrists, nurse assessors, work 50% of the week in the NHS and the other 50% of the week privately during these assessments.
Speaker 1:Now, how the NHS can not accept that private diagnosis is beyond me. Yeah, and I've had. I mean I had a very positive experience here in Guernsey. I've done it privately through RTN mental health solutions. Once I had my report I took it into my GP. My GP referred me then into the private not the private service, but the local ADHD pathway here and I was seen within two weeks for medication.
Speaker 2:I've never had to pay an extortionate amount of money and we're.
Speaker 1:you know, primary care here in Guernsey is not NHS, it is private. I had to pay £62 to see my doctor, but then I'm like £4.80 a month for my medication, whereas some people are paying hundreds of pounds every month for their private education and I just think that inequity of it all is so frustrating. I mean, it's just beyond me.
Speaker 2:We're currently backing a campaign called Access Denied ND, which has been set up by York Disability Rights Forum and a couple of other activists, including Cat Irins and Carla I've forgotten her name, but basically in York they started a pilot in which anybody who goes through ADHD assessment is given a link to a website with this well, it's not even an actual official diagnostic tool, which is a tip box questionnaire last day and hour and then at the end of it you just get sent to self-help links. So they're literally taking away the right to do it to assessment for ADHD and autism in York with this pilot. The only situation in which they will let you have that is very extreme. So you have to have a crisis team in place. You have to.
Speaker 2:There's like three criteria that are so extreme that even people that have been in actual crisis you can't do it. It's so frightening because the point is they've swept it in illegally and if they can get away with it because they're assuming that ADHD people aren't going to pull their finger out of the eye, then it's very possible that that could be swept across the whole of the UK, because the point being is that, yes, we are at this ridiculous crisis point, right. All of these people have just got the awareness and the knowledge thanks to social media and the past high cars, and then, on the other hand, you've got the NHS on its knees. So what needs to happen is we need to change the system, but instead put this thing in place so that one side lets the relief and that's not actually the people who are in medical need.
Speaker 2:You know we're told that, oh, you know, we're not going to assess you because you don't have another mental health struggle, such as depression, when we know that undiagnosed ADHD can cause chroma disease, anxiety and depression and, in the long run, cost the NHS more money, that's the massive risk of suicide as well.
Speaker 3:Exactly it's about the statistics around addiction. You know you take into account not just kind of substance misuse, but then you think about food addiction. You know obesity and then the impact on diabetes care the opposite reckless behaviour leading people to good and criminality.
Speaker 1:There's so, so many. It's ridiculous but actually sorry I was just going to say we interviewed actually she was another midwife, I can't remember whereabouts in the country she is down south somewhere. She is like a case loading midwife for vulnerable women, so women who have social services input or have had previous children removed. And actually we were then querying, on that discussion with her, about the likelihood of these families who are struggling to maintain house, struggling to get the kids out to school. Their houses are a mess, they're forgetting to take their kids to doctors appointments, they're forgetting their midwife appointments. They seem distracted in all the meetings. How many of these women that are having their babies removed at the point of birth have undiagnosed ADHD?
Speaker 1:and it makes me feel physically pained about that because the impact on the further public health issues the cost to the economy, then for that, you know, if we could, just if we could, invest a little bit of time, money, research on women's health now would massively save them money, absolutely.
Speaker 2:But do you know what? Do you know what the silver lining of all of this is? That so many of us have this wonderful thing called justice sensitivities. And you know, in particular, as I was saying, this York campaign, these women have gone no, I'm sorry rallied together and they're doing a crowd justice fundraiser to pay legal fees because they're going to take them to court.
Speaker 3:Good for them.
Speaker 1:That's really good. You know we must let us know. Actually, we can put that in the podcast.
Speaker 2:So the point is it's about what diagnosis is meant to you and for me. It's not just changed my life, it's saved my life. Saved my life. That's how depressed I was, that's how broken and everything was destroyed in my life. So if they're asking people to say what it means to rally together to pledge, if they can, we're selling these fundraiser pins second pin, army pins to try and get money to take those people out of the door, because if we don't fight for this, then this could be the norm. We're just like oh well, it's all my surgery. Everyone's a bit ADHD. What kind of you got?
Speaker 1:Really, this is what you do right, you know it's ridiculous, and we've kind of talked about those kind of feminist inequalities before, haven't we?
Speaker 1:Louise about all of a sudden because it's women that has caused this influx of people trying to get an assessment and all of a sudden it's a bandwagon that people are jumping on. It's a trend that's happening through TikTok and all those things. Sorry, I've just got children coming out of the woodwork here. This one has no clothes on apart from a pair of boxer shorts. I do have three children. The other one's hiding in her bedroom. She's a teenager, so not always a pleasant interaction when she gets home.
Speaker 2:The thing that's frustrating about it is that it's all very logical and a lot of us ADHD is a black and white thinking. So it just makes sense that, with all the research done on little boys and white little boys at that, that that is the bias, that is the stereotype. As we've progressed through time, learned more and have this new platforms, multiple platforms for people to communicate with each other, we all get this awareness. At the same time, women have been misdiagnosed, with bipolar predominantly, or just treated for the comorbidities rather than depression, eating disorders, whatever. So it just makes sense. We've got these platforms. Boom, black and white. It makes sense. So for anybody to be like it's a trend, it's like, oh my God, it's so clear.
Speaker 3:I think there's quite a lot of evidence as well. When you take the medication, it can be I don't think it's like a definite kind of oh, that must mean you definitely or you don't, because it doesn't suit everybody. But the typical thinking is that taking particularly stimulant medication which runs something like elvancy, if that really, like you say, quiets into your thoughts and really kind of just takes you down a notch in terms of calm and productivity, then it's quite clear that your brain is an ADHD brain because of the opposite effect. Yeah, it's like that. They're just not taking the medication. It's that rhetoric of women just moaning and they're just not happy because they've got the period or they go to the menopause or they're pregnant or they're whatever, and it's just, it's infuriating, it's so infuriating.
Speaker 2:We've learned so much about hormones, like the habit way I've actually been.
Speaker 3:I was reading something the other day. I can't remember where it was, but it was saying that one of the reasons that there's a lack of testing on women for ADHD is because of our fluctuation in hormones. It makes it harder for them to get results, because if you take 100 women who are all hormones at different, times of the month and every then different cycles you don't get the consistent results as you can see in a man without those fluctuations. So they just don't bother because it's too much work.
Speaker 2:And on top of that, we've found out that our ADHD symptoms are exacerbated by particular sex hormones. So puberty, pregnancy, postnatal, perimenopause, menopause our symptoms are getting worse. And you know, looking at a lot of different testimonials from our community and from my own personal experience, seemingly something else that GPs don't know a lot about is menopause, and which is hilarious, right, Because nobody goes through that.
Speaker 3:It's just the same. It's just the same. That's what I said. That's how I feel that we're just, we're dismissed because we're just moaning because we can't get the housework done, or you know and it just feels so infuriating, because think about, you know, women coming after us as well. You want to, you know, make this better. It's got to get better, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, absolutely, well do you know what We've got each other, and that's where our strength lies and that's where, absolutely, yeah, it does get better if we unite and support each other, lean into each other, celebrate each other's strength and just not take any more.
Speaker 1:Exactly and actually use that relentlessness that you know, that hyper focus, to really drive things, for you know, change for the greater good yeah the hyper focus and the sensitivity. Yeah, yes, exactly.
Speaker 3:What's next, guys? What World domination? Good A lie down. We're just in the process of putting together season two because we've had a break from the podcast. Well, we say we've had a break from the podcast, but he's been a break in the podcast, but we haven't had a break, like we're constantly like working on stuff. So yeah, season two is coming soon, very, very soon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and yeah, more live shows. Yeah, definitely a bit more live showy stuff. We can't say anything yet, but yeah, there's some exciting stuff going on and we just keep going. You know, it's such a funny thing that we're doing. I don't know how you guys feel about this.
Speaker 2:We're doing a live podcast tomorrow in Aberdeen and part of it is about like it's two things at once, because we wanted to speak to lots of people about different things. So there's like ADHD awareness side, and it's also about podcasting, and so I've really been thinking very hard about, you know, what I would want to convey to people, and I think my main message is like, only start a podcast about something that you care so much about, that on the days when you are exhausted and you're fed up, oh, yes, we do Sometimes. I don't want to talk about ADHD Sometimes, but I push through because I really care about this, like in my bones, yeah, and I will fight for this forever. As long as I vary my lungs, I will fight for this cause and that is what it's all about. So you know, we do have hard times. We do have times when it's too much. You know, learning more. We've learned, we've been learning about who we are basically the same time as meeting each other.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's changed as we've gone along. You know we could get back to pictures even six months ago and be like who are those people? You know like literally the safari that we're on, and so you know it's really about supporting each other and on those days when it gets really, really tough, which it often does is caring about the cause. And actually I'd be so sick of promoting myself. I'm sick. I literally the first. I was listening to her the other day that she just edited and I was like how does anybody listen to me? I'm the most annoying person in the world. I want her to win. Yeah, I can push her face when I'm sick of my face and I'm sick of my voice. I can push her and we care about the cause and so we'll just keep going and God knows, I mean we never in a million years expected and it's not to say we've got like it's not about the money we're definitely not making lots of money, but we expected to listen to as far as we are.
Speaker 2:So you know if that can happen in a year, anything can happen. So God knows what's next.
Speaker 3:And I think, just like Laura was saying, like when she's struggling, she can push it, she can do things for me, and it's the same vice versa, and I think that's what's so great about working with someone. Because Christ if we were doing this on our own, we probably wouldn't have got past three episodes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I think that's really important. It's a bit of it seems like a bit of co-bragging that you've got going on there. You know, when you can't brag for yourself, then you brag for the other I think Louise and I are kind of quite good at doing that as well in terms of our dynamic duo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to say how do you guys find it, how much time are you putting into podcasting and how do you get exhausted by it all.
Speaker 1:So my story is that after my diagnosis, I resigned completely from my job because it was sucking the life and soul out of me. I was tired of working within the limitations of a very toxic system and you know, it's not just healthcare in general as a very toxic system. There's no kind of I mean, they tick the boxes for staff welfare and psychological support in your job, but that's exactly where it is so that they can say, oh, we look after our staff welfare by putting this on, you know, like a half an hour session about how to look after your wellbeing online with someone, and that you know we can all access those things out with our employer. There was no kind of proactiveness and actually what I realise now is that I was majorly suffering from burnout for all the things like justice, sensitivity, when I can see things that are, you know, systemic problems and you try and challenge them because you have this inherent drive to change it and make it right for the people who are, you know, experiencing it and maybe not even realise that they're experiencing it, but all that's happening is people are getting tired of you raising your concern.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, you know, challenging the status quo, and so that, on one hand, was driving me mad. I was coming home with headaches every single day from work and I don't know how you guys are with this, but I am a very empathic person, so I almost absorb the emotions in the room, which there are a lot of emotions when someone is in labour, having a baby, and that's just the live babies. But if you're, you know you're dealing with sometimes death and sadly when babies haven't survived, and you're also absorbing those very sad emotions Typically not very good at putting boundaries in place.
Speaker 1:So you know, it was really starting to affect my home life. I was just getting to the point where I was completely, completely exhausted with it all. My mental health was on the brink and I thought, no, I just I can't do this anymore. There are other ways and means to help the birthing community that I'm passionate about, and so actually it's taken me. It's taken me down this whole other avenue of things that I can explore. So obviously Louise and I are doing this she Thrives ADHD project, and then within that we've both got our own projects ongoing. So Louise is kind of focusing around the therapeutic aspects coaching and I have recently trademarked a company called Neuronato and it is going to be a foundation or a platform, I suppose, for educating around the impact of ADHD and pregnancy in terms of the hormonal impact that's where my research from a Masters is going to be centered around and postnatally.
Speaker 1:So that will hopefully support pregnant and postnatal people, but it will also. It's a kind of double edged sword in the sense that it will hopefully go away to start educating health professionals that work in maternity services, because at the minute there is no education, there is no suitable training. I mean, if I think to all of the mandatory training that you have to do as a health professional, things like what happens if you get a phishing email, how to deal with that as an organisation, what you have to do I care far less about that than I do about how to help somebody that is neurodivergent. What experiences are they having during their pregnancy, during their labour? Because we all process things differently, and so that, for me, is how it has transformed my life. I mean, I'm not making really any money. I've got a part time job in a sexual health clinic, which is great and I love it. I've got other little passion projects on the go. It completely transforms my life and I believe it's probably hit the same effect on you, louise, would you say.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it has. It's taking me a while actually I think it's taking me a lot longer for the law to let things absorb and settle in. I'm getting there and I think you're right when you're doing something you love like you said about the podcast, about you're doing a podcast could be you're absolutely so passionate about what you're talking, about, the message you're sending. I'm starting to understand that more now than I ever have. It's pointless me casing after something that I'm not passionate about because I will inevitably because my history will display give up. Move on. It's just yeah for me.
Speaker 3:So I've got my own practice. I do this one-to-one therapy for people with mental health problems. I'm starting to tailor it more now for people with ADHD as well, because you were saying earlier about the comorbidity of this. There's no escaping it. But I'm particularly interested in the relationship between ADHD and food, particularly the kind of usually overeating and the addictive behaviours around that and all of the psychological sense, all of the psychological impact that comes from that, because I think it's something that we it's not understood, one of the many things that's not understood about ADHD. So, yeah, I'm just looking at doing different training at the moment, just learning, just back, absorbing it and see where we go, where some happens. Can I ask you a?
Speaker 2:question how do you think in yourself Like we talk about? I know it's not possible, I'm going in. I want to know. We talk about the late ADHD diagnosis rollercoaster. So Elizabeth Kubler-Ross's grief cycle, right, but we say that it's more like a rollercoaster because there's all these twists and turns and it doesn't go in this kind of cyclical way. Where are you up to? Where do you feel you're up to? Both of you? Do you feel like you're acceptance or are you at like anger or denial? Or has it changed? Does it change all the time or these changes for me.
Speaker 3:I think, if I was to compare myself to Laura which would be quite natural because we've gone along the same kind of trajectory to speak at a similar time. I mean, when I got diagnosed I didn't really want to read anything about it. I'm a mental health professional. I didn't understand it. So that speaks volumes. Right, we don't understand enough as professionals. But my daughter? I would speak to the psychiatrist the other day who now diagnosed ADHD and he said I didn't know anything about it. I never diagnosed anybody in the community, did you, did you no? And so all my pre-existing judgments were like you said naughty little boys.
Speaker 3:So it's taking a while for me to get away from that stigma, which is ironic because I'm a mental health professional, I should be the one championing it. But I'm getting there. I'm starting to kind of understand that. Okay and it's. I think it's also realising that not everybody experiences the world the way that you do. Yeah, isn't it? It's like what you actually like your cardboard out, you know those kind of things.
Speaker 3:But getting just going I know I'm going back quite a few conversations ago, but so what you were saying, dawn, about the dating thing and now going into those scenarios with this real sense of it sounds like a sense of self-assurance. You know, I don't like it, fuck off, I'm fine, I'm sorry for like you and although I'm married as well, I don't go dating. But it would happen in social situations for me like that and a lot of, because I'm so sad. A lot of my social situations just revolve around my kids' school, so it's usually with other moments and I find it fucking terrifying. But I feel like I've got a different aura about me when I'm saying it's okay if you don't like me.
Speaker 3:I don't like me much either, but you know, I think it comes into the culture as well, like, as you get older, I think, regardless of the relationship you like, start to care a little bit less about what others think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right absolutely I don't know, because I really know that I am near a developmental delay. I really am about 18 years old, so I was waiting for it to happen and it just wasn't happening. And it's not until I got the diagnosis that I was like, actually, I tried really hard and never did fit in. I'm never going to.
Speaker 3:So you can all do one, and that's the only time I was like refreshing.
Speaker 1:yeah, well, that's a little bit. And who wants to fit in? Anyway, you are born to stand out, women, exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I guess it's like. It's not so much like not caring about what people think, because obviously I think as you get older you still may be care, but it's not letting it affect you in the same way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm the same impact as it yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:But that being said, I still think, like I know that because I've spent my whole life people pleasing and seeking validation and acceptance, that it's not just an easy thing to shake off. So it's like I'm trying and I'm much more self-aware, but I still. It still happens it's all the time and it's like, oh, I've fallen to that trap again. I've realised that I've done this and I'm like that's not who I am and you know, I still do it. It's still early days.
Speaker 2:Well, that's it. It is still early days. It's early days to unlearn a lifetime of that, yeah exactly and actually.
Speaker 1:I find that I really struggle to even recognise where I am masking. You know, I don't. I'm still very much just scratching the surface of who I am as an individual, because for so long I've been a bit of a chameleon. I've always had lots of different friendship groups and I've been a different kind of identity within all those.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I struggle to formulate my own opinions, kind of at the heat of the moment, it takes me a little while to read round about it, but then maybe I'm just not a very I mean, people would probably think that I'm very opinionated, but I do genuinely struggle to have an opinion on something when I don't you know, I don't know enough about it, I don't think anybody should have an opinion about anything they don't know about, or at least they shouldn't voice it.
Speaker 2:Nothing worse than a non-educated opinion, right? Exactly.
Speaker 3:I'm looking at all of the mainstream media for their evidence.
Speaker 1:That's all I'm saying and in terms of the grief cycle or the rollercoaster kind of post diagnosis, I think initially I was kind of euphoric about it. I was like this is brilliant, this answers all the questions for my whole life. It's a massive relief, a fully kind of understand. You know this kind of whole process that I've been on throughout my whole life and then, yeah, I probably did go through a little bit of an angry stage, but that was quite short-lived because you know we only know what we know right. So they didn't know at that stage when I was a teenager that you know that there was particularly a female presentation of ADHD. Your dog's making my dog bark, I'm going to start working for you in a minute.
Speaker 3:They've got opinions.
Speaker 1:That's just what we do. At the end of the podcast, we just all start barking it's an ADHD work. Sorry, I love it. So no, I do. I think I've. I think I really try and harness the qualities of my ADHD and I still find that I'm, you know, quite self-deprecating humour in terms of, you know, my husband will say something to me and I'll go oh, but I can't do that because I'm disabled. So, you know, just using it in a bit of a kind of jokie, light hearted situation. Sorry, adoption pending Very soon. Should I get you? Yes, you should. That's the teenager. We're going to pick up some Bridesmaid dresses just shortly actually, because it's my best friend's wedding this weekend and my daughter and I are both Bridesmaids. It's up in St Andrews.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's it.
Speaker 1:And then it's flying up tomorrow, so that'll be lovely. But and I don't know about you guys but I don't drink on the medication. I don't take an alcoholic drink anymore. You don't comment, we don't comment. Ok, that's fine. That speaks volumes. So I mean, this will be the first wedding that I've gone to is what I'm saying where I've not had an alcoholic drink. But you know, I'm happy with that. I would rather, yeah, I would rather just be so burned up, suffer the consequences the next day and just have my faculty.
Speaker 1:My faculty's about me type, but you've got a high level of health care now.
Speaker 2:Do you feel you're at a top since then?
Speaker 1:Yes, I support, yeah, I would say I'm probably at acceptance. Yes, that's fantastic. But then there might be days you know it can change from day to day. There might be days that tomorrow I'll wake up absolutely region about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah that's it Like I definitely have had moments where I've been at acceptance, but then I realise I've had acceptance at this area of my life. I'm not at acceptance, but there's a new level of acceptance I've hit yes, I think what helps with the for me, what has really helped with the acceptance, is talking to other women with ADHD.
Speaker 3:We've been having guests on the podcast and it's just. It's so uplifting, isn't it? And speaking to other women, listening to their experiences, which are quite often quite common with yours or not, but just the thread that runs through these conversations is just non-judgmental.
Speaker 2:And so that is it.
Speaker 3:You understand that, yeah, from somebody else going through and you know, actually I want to be part of that group because there really seems to be kind of people and creative and all of those fantastic qualities that come with it yeah, adhd, brain.
Speaker 1:So like finding your tribe, isn't it? And I think, quite naturally, we gravitate towards each other, which is there's just something really lovely and, you know, warm and friendly about that, which I really enjoy.
Speaker 2:We like things.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, magnetic feels or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's so lovely to.
Speaker 1:It's an entire company where we all talk over each other and talk very quickly and chat. Yeah, yeah, no Judges each other for that. We just, you know it's like a rabble, it's like a complete rabble.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Would you be happy to send us all the volume about how we can support the yes absolutely with Bills on, we will do yeah so Access Denied ND campaign and we'll be sending pledging that our favorite thing that we might not even go to call where, as some yes of doing it might be enough. But if any pledges that don't get used, we'll go into our Leopard Print Army Fund, which is going to be used to empower women. Well, we don't want to generalize Empower ADHDers to advocate for other ADHDers and themselves, but we're going to wait till that this campaign's done and then we're going to talk more about that. But it really is so important to get behind it because even just sharing it can make a difference. And if you feel like sharing what your diagnosis meant to you and tag at York DRF and hashtag access denied ND, that would be amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it doesn't matter if you're in York or not, because, yeah, it affects us all. Yeah.
Speaker 3:If this pilot is successful, then there's a chance that it might get run across the UK we just. Yeah, it affects us Absolutely. Okay, it's good.
Speaker 1:Fabulous. Well, thank you. Well, thank you for coming on to our podcast. It's been wonderful chatting to you.
Speaker 3:It's so lovely to see you, I know.
Speaker 1:Thanks for coming to us, Hopefully, you know. Maybe in the future, you don't know where we'll come across each other, but you know, if you're ever in Guernsey, look us up. Yeah, I mean, I would say Well, it'd be nice to have you here for a live podcast. That would be fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll let you know when the episode will be published and obviously do all the usual social media drive around about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, let us know. Do you need? Let us know if you need any photos or anything, we'll send you stuff.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, we will do, we will do yeah.
Speaker 2:Fabulous.
Speaker 1:In fact, yes, please, if you could just send them over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, don't worry, yeah, yeah, don't worry, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.