Have you ever felt misunderstood, dismissed, or questioned about a diagnosed condition? Meet Kelly Doran, who bravely challenged her initial Borderline Personality Disorder diagnosis and pursued an exploration into her past that led to a new understanding- ADHD. Her story underscores the crucial need for proof in diagnosis, thus placing a high value on old report cards and teachers' comments, which revealed repetitive patterns pointing towards ADHD.
Kelly's candid conversation unveils her journey and the strategies she utilised to manage her ADHD symptoms and navigate the often damaging culture within the mental health world.
Kelly discusses the stumbling blocks she encountered during her high school years due to her diagnosis, emphasising the need for more education and training on neurodiversity. This compelling conversation is not just Kelly's story; it's a call for understanding and embracing neurodiversity in every facet of life.
Outro
This is a special edition episode recorded from a webinar.
Have you ever felt misunderstood, dismissed, or questioned about a diagnosed condition? Meet Kelly Doran, who bravely challenged her initial Borderline Personality Disorder diagnosis and pursued an exploration into her past that led to a new understanding- ADHD. Her story underscores the crucial need for proof in diagnosis, thus placing a high value on old report cards and teachers' comments, which revealed repetitive patterns pointing towards ADHD.
Kelly's candid conversation unveils her journey and the strategies she utilised to manage her ADHD symptoms and navigate the often damaging culture within the mental health world.
Kelly discusses the stumbling blocks she encountered during her high school years due to her diagnosis, emphasising the need for more education and training on neurodiversity. This compelling conversation is not just Kelly's story; it's a call for understanding and embracing neurodiversity in every facet of life.
Outro
This is a special edition episode recorded from a webinar.
Hello everyone. Good afternoon Some of us. It's good morning to our lovely guest today, Kelly Doran, who's all the way in Toronto and Canada, and I'm also joined by my very tanned and very beautiful co-host, louise Brady, who is sunning herself. Louise, would you care to elaborate a little bit more about where you are and what you've?
Speaker 2:been doing. I'm in Turkey at the moment. We're just coming to the end of a two week holiday which has just been so lovely, so glory. It's such a beautiful country. So we're heading home tomorrow and, yeah, I'm making the most of my time because, like it will go, it will go and yeah, so we're heading back tomorrow. So I'm two hours ahead of you, laura. Oh God, don't get me confusing, really confusing.
Speaker 2:And also another thing I mean, typically, I'm really bad with my calendar. Anyway, I put things in them, forget it and forget to put alarms on it. Yada, yada, yada. You know the usual, but I'm putting things in my calendar for next week when I'm home and it's putting it in on Istanbul time, so I need to double check. It's going to be hell. It's going to be an interesting week. It makes so many mistakes, yeah, but it's been lovely. It's been really glorious. Looking forward to the kids going back to school, though, oh, absolutely yes, the flags will be out, the flags.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it's been stressful.
Speaker 2:It's stressful.
Speaker 1:I feel as if I've completely lost track of my whole life over the last six weeks, because when they've, when the children have got a structure, it means I then feed into that structure and structure myself around about it. And I'm not kind of time blocking and all those kind of things, but I just feel as if I've completely lost control and I need them to go back to school so that I can reset.
Speaker 2:It's too long. It's too long, and I think I don't know about you, but you know I don't do a load of kind of really educational stuff with them or anything particularly that might be perceived as meaningful. I mean, I think watching a film together is quite meaningful, but they're getting bored, they are, you know. They're even telling their nose up at the pool in the villa and it's like that's just no, you need to go back to school then.
Speaker 1:I believe it's the children.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah. Yeah, I'm worried that they're turning into, you know, brats really, but that's another little bit of the podcast.
Speaker 1:So I think we'd like to hand over to our lovely guest today, kelly Doran, and her two lovely cats one of them we can see in the video and pouncing around trying to get its couple of seconds of fame so over to you. Kelly, do you want to tell us a little bit about, or what about you are, what time it is there? Yeah, and just give us a bit of background about who Kelly is and your journey to your diagnosis.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely Thank you, and thank you for having me. This is a pleasure. The founders of LinkedIn is what brought me here, so happy to, you know, connect. So I was diagnosed in March. I'm up in Canada, so I'm, you know, overseas. It is 1050, I'm here, so it's still early.
Speaker 3:But yeah, so I was diagnosed in March and leading up to that, obviously, through the COVID time period, I had a lot of time to reflect and just kind of a lot of things were coming up in terms of just behaviors and like patterns, and I suspected I'm going to say like three or four years ago. I suspected, but I didn't really do anything about it. So I'll kind of go backwards from now till 2017. In 2017, I was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. So I have been on medication for that since then and it's helped, but I think all of the things that I was facing with BPD were very much aligned with the same symptoms as ADHD. They're different though, right. So, but I was finding that there were still some things that I was like this is not, this is not normal, this isn't. There's still something going on, and I had talked to a lot of people in my circle, like friends and family and a lot of people just kind of, when I had shared that like I think I have ADHD, a lot of people kind of just brushed it off like oh, you're just, you're quirky or you're, that's just your personality, right. But I wouldn't take that for an answer. I was like no, I'm going to do a deep dive and I want to know. I want to not feel the way that I've been feeling because I think it.
Speaker 3:I really struggled, and I still do, with confidence. I'm naturally a very outgoing, bubbly person. I also work in sales, so I talk to people all day long and you know, also being in sales, you get a lot of rejection, right. So there's a lot of different things that I've done in my career that I think. Up till this point I'm like there's got to be an easier way to just manage my day to day, and so I I ended up just doing a ton of research. I talked to my doctor and through the research, the research part of it was me asking my mom for my report cards which he had stored away, and she had every single report card from kindergarten all the way up till grade 12. And I was like kudos to you, mom, I'm glad that you kept all of this, because if she didn't, I don't know where they would be, and then the proof is gone.
Speaker 1:So she's funny, isn't it, though, that parents hold on to those things Like I'm sure probably my mom still has lots of them from when I was at school. In fact, I know that she's got all my baby teeth as well, which is a bit weird.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my mom has. My mom has my hair and my sister's hair. From our very first hair cut, I'm like I don't want that creepy mom.
Speaker 3:I don't know, yes, but but I can tell you that hair is extremely red, that it, like it is super red. It's not like that anymore, but yeah so so I went through the report cards and it was extremely emotional to read through all the comments from the teachers because they were the same, they were repetitive and they all said, like Kelly needs to listen. You know, kelly needs to talk less, listen more, and and I just remember in school very much, being daydreaming not like paying attention was just not something that I ever did, and I also have very strong opinions on the school system. I don't know how it is over there, but here it's probably like this everywhere but I really feel like they cater to one type of learning, one type of learning only, and that's a problem, and so I've become extremely. That's really why I think I've become passionate about talking about my journey, because so many people struggle and I very much grew up thinking that something was like, like I was stupid or something was wrong with me. I was always different. I never fit in. You know, I like again going back to. I'm outgoing. I make friends all the time, anywhere I go. That's how I've been my whole life but I never fit in anywhere. I never. I never had like a group of people. Right, the friends that I have now are just people that I've accumulated through my life and they've chose to step by me and vice versa.
Speaker 3:So I think, reflecting and thinking about you know grade five as an example every single day I would come home and have math homework that I just would cry every night because I couldn't get it and parents got frustrated. They didn't know how to, how to help me. They didn't know how to help me. It's not that they couldn't do the math, they just simply didn't know how to help me because I think I would get easily frustrated and discouraged and I'd shut down. So, and these are things that came into my adult life and I still like thinking about how I felt at that age. That would have been. I would have been 11. So, thinking about you know, I'm 33 now and it still feels like yesterday. That like math homework haunts me. So, um, it's just, it's been such a long journey and finally, at my age I got that diagnosis.
Speaker 3:But, going backwards, what really caught my attention in that pile of report cards was a document that it was wedged in between all the report cards and it was this random like five pages, six pages, and it said neurodevelopmental testing report and I was like, and then it just had Some writing on it and it said difficulty in school and I was like what the hell? Like? This has been here all along and I'm starting to flip through it and it they're testing my motor skills, they're testing, you know, memory, all these different like cognitive behaviors and and just things like that. And at the end it's a, it's a summary of their suggestion, saying that I could go and get tutored. And I never got a day of tutoring my life, and Not that that would have been like the only thing to help me get on the right path, but I I don't know why nothing evolved from that, because I don't recall any tutoring and my parents don't really remember the report like that test being done.
Speaker 3:So I don't know if it came from a teacher, if it was something through my doctor. Like that was when I was 10, by the way, so that was 2000, it was February. 2000 was when it was done and I ended up reaching out. I went, I was hyper focusing at the time and I, the lady that did the test. I found her online and I emailed her and I said it's been 20 years, but just wondering if you remember this test and if you can tell me anything about you know.
Speaker 3:What you, I was, in a sheet, or yeah, because she I think her title on the document was a Pediatrician specialist or something. I wish I should have dug it up and just referred to it. But and she said, like good for you for reaching out. It's been 20 years and I don't. I don't know if she's in the same profession, if she's like could be at the other side of the World, anything could, could be right. So she did respond and she, she gave me a little bit of insight and we were gonna set up a call. We didn't. It didn't end up happening, but I did tell her when I got diagnosed that what kind of happened and that I got diagnosed and it was just really nice to just have that connection with her and just know that I don't know. I think for me it was just like piecing the two together.
Speaker 2:She remembered you, just because that's a long time, isn't it?
Speaker 3:It's yeah, yeah, um, I think. So I think she she did remember doing that test which, yeah, rereading it, she might have been triggered.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I might trigger some memory there because she probably saw her writing was very distinctive and I think, like, as I'm looking through these little tests, I would say like, noted to be anxious, noted to be flustered, all of these words right and gets frustrated and I'm like, and I'm while I'm reading through it, I it's just like it was even thinking about it. It's so emotional for me because it's like I Talked to my therapist a lot about, like you know, talking to my like little Kelly. Like you know, I don't like what would, how would little Kelly want to approach this situation. So, and I think to myself, little Kelly is not much different from big Kelly. Now, like, I still find myself in these like feedback loops of, well, I'm extremely hard on myself and I think that I don't know if, if either of you can relate to that, because I know that that's part of ADHD, but just being able to Like I'm really trying to practice self-love, all to say, I'm just, I'm really trying to be easier on myself. It's very hard Because I think I've the only reason I've gotten to where I am today is because I've I've had expectations for myself.
Speaker 3:But on the flip side, I think internally, I've done a little bit of damage along the way. Oh, and I should also mention I'm in December. I will be four-year sober, so, amazing, well done, thank you, thank you. So there's a lot of like, just things that I've worked towards in terms of like getting sober and then getting my diagnosis. I'm on medication now, much, much better, definitely not an overnight fix. I've got a friend in my circle who had gone on medication and and he said you know and, and I know men versus women that's a whole other conversation. But he said he felt it immediately and I was like, oh my god, like that's amazing. I did not, it was a slow burn, it was in a super, super slow burn. So I'll pause.
Speaker 1:There Was a lot of talking, I feel as though I can Relate to so much about what you're saying. I'm tearing up a little bit because I think that just your experience speaks to so many Women that are in our situation. Getting to, you know, this point in your life, in your 30s, and getting a diagnosis, and actually you feeling immense I'm gonna Get tearful, but you feel an immense and some pit a towards your younger self, don't you?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and that's, that's, the most emotional part of it, I think it is a really powerful emotion, I think, when you're looking back at yourself as a child and and I've experienced that as well, and Particularly when I was really, really low. You know, a friend of mine who was also a therapist said Go back, think about yourself as a child and just say Louise, it's gonna be okay, you're gonna grow up, you're gonna do X, y, z, and oh my god, it was so emotive. It's so, so powerful, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is much for sharing all that, because I know it's really personal and it's it's difficult to you know, beat, make yourself as vulnerable as that and Sorry and it can sometimes be a sense that and I don't think it's necessarily Consciously anybody's fault that was around you as a kid was saying did why?
Speaker 2:why can't someone have done that for me? That's my experience, anyway. My little boys just woke up.
Speaker 1:It's not a cat.
Speaker 3:You guys have your kids, I got my cat. It's all good yeah.
Speaker 2:Working up in a new hotel room is no idea. Oh yeah, I mean, and I wonder what your diagnosis of Borderline personality disorder Is, that one maintained that hasn't changed, because that, I mean, it's quite often misdiagnosed, isn't it? And people with ADHD?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up, because I honestly, like, when this whole and the assessment went, when the assessment went down and I got, I did that, it was like a two and a half hour testing and I had told the doctor, like, does this mean that the BPD isn't actually a thing? Or like, does it, you know? And they said all they really said was continue to take your Sertriline or your Zoloft, which is what I'm on, yeah. Yeah, I don't think that they could really speak to like if I still struggle with it or not, but like I will say that from 2017 to now, a lot of the behaviors I had plus, keep in mind, I was also drinking a lot back then I think a lot of what I was struggling with has been definitely maintained now.
Speaker 3:Like my mood swings. We all get moody, but my mood swings that's very manic and I would go from like these really hi-highs being on top of the world nothing could bring me down and then the lowest lows, and that was like it was. It's so hard to like kind of put it into words because it was so extreme, but I will say that I don't feel like that anymore. So I would like to think that maybe the BPD is in remission of some kind. But yeah, it's hard to say, but I continued taking the medication and it's definitely helped with depression and things like that.
Speaker 2:There are so many crossovers out there and I think sometimes it's helpful to have that label, that diagnosis, and sometimes it isn't. And I'm not talking about ADHD in particular, because that's not my experience. But you think about I mean, you'll probably know a lot more than I do about borderline personality disorder, but what I do know is that it's founded in trauma and again, the cultures are so different. The culture in here in the UK within the mental health world can be quite negative towards people with personality disorders and I think that then has quite a detrimental effect on their care. And so in that instance my belief is the symptoms you know, like you said, if the searchline is helping, and that's great and you know those behaviors you think about, the addictive behaviors have kind of been maintained for quite a long time now. I think that's wonderful, but it's just that it's misdiagnosed so often, isn't?
Speaker 3:it. Yeah, yeah, it's very much. I really do think that, like, with all of the readings and research and appointments I've had all the information I've collected, I think that I fit the ADHD profile much more. So, like, without a doubt, but I definitely like, I think with BPD, you know, like the big theme there is abandonment, having issues with abandonment, and my parents split when I was 15 and then all of my siblings who were older than me had all moved out.
Speaker 3:So I wonder that I maybe was diagnosed with that because I 100% had fear of abandonment for like years and years, and now I actually like to just be alone. The irony of it I just like I prefer to be alone more than with people because my energy gets drained so much quicker.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely, and I completely agree with that. That's I would. I'm really bad for making plans in advance and then fretting about them, you know. And then it comes to the actual time that you're meeting up with someone or the restaurants booked, and I always I'm talking myself out of going, I'm thinking I've got a bit of a headache or feel a bit sick or the kids are not well or whatever, looking for as many excuses as possible when actually, when I agreed to go, I think it was probably just to appease people, that kind of people, People, please. Yeah, and you kind of agree to go when actually your heart was never really in it in the first place because, like you say, I'm a bit like you in that sense that I really enjoy just being at home. Yeah, I just, like you know, I've got the house all kind of set up to the way I like it. It brings me comfort and makes me feel safe. I feel, you know, not that stressed. When I'm in the house I can put it around and just suit myself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I'm, I'm. I definitely have that issue where I, too, like, impulsively make plans. I make plans with people yeah, yeah, let's do this day at this time, and then the day comes and I'm just like I'm not, I don't have the capacity to do it, and I think most of my friends are super understanding and I'm grateful for that. But it's definitely like you still feel bad, you still have that guilt, right, Like, and it's like why can't I, just why can't I just make a decision and stick to it? Cause I'm also extremely indecisive, Like I I'm. I mean, most people are very indecisive, but I think one thing that that the medication so I'm on Vyvans now, which I know is, I mean, it's the same as LVans.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yes, that's the same as as we have both. On that as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's, it's absolutely helped me with not being impulsive or the impulsive like eating. You know, like I think that the snacking through the day was a big, a big issue in terms of just like constantly needing that dopamine. So I think that it's really helped me in that sense. I'm a lot more like organized, which was also never, ever, my strong suit, ever. Time management was also an issue, but I've definitely learned to be much better with that time law, you know things like that. But yeah, I mean, I've been on the medication, the Vyvans now since April, so it's been a handful of months and there's definitely like some progress there. But I think I've just come to learn like there's no one size fits all. It's like there's a lot of different things I have to do yeah, exercise, eat well, you know, like sleep early. Yeah, just the little things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's you know. It's important to note that, while some people feel that kind of instant fix when they take the tablet, I think Louise experienced a bit of silencing in her mind. But I've continued to have that, but in a kind of more subtle way, and I think I've been able to use my time productively rather than I was really bad for when I dropped the kids off at school, I would come back, I'd make myself a cup of coffee, I'd watch some soaps on the telly, I would have a nap and then before I knew it, I had spent the day just watching the telly and it was time to pick the kids up again at school. I don't do that anymore. I find things to be productive around the house, or I get myself out for a walk or whatever. But you know it's still. It's a massive learning curve, isn't it? Trying to it's. I find it difficult to find the time to do that. You know, write everything down in my planner or put it all into my calendar and set an alarm.
Speaker 1:But, I do notice a big difference when I don't do that. That. It has a bigger impact for the rest of the week, Because for a while there I was really good at sitting doing it and a Sunday night like, oh well, I've got the doctors at this time on Tuesday, haircut on Thursday, whatever. But I've noticed that it's kind of fallen by the wayside while the kids have been off school, and so I think that's difficult and I also think getting the motivation to exercise is difficult. What do you, what form of exercise do you do, Kelly?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do. I'm right down the street from a Pilates studio, so it's, it's, but it's like cardio mixed with Pilates and like hit, so it's some high impact, but everything is done on a mat. You know, a lot of burpees and like lunges, and they just recently introduced a weights class which I really yeah, I really, I really enjoy that. So it's, it's good. I definitely think like I've been going there. In September it'll be a year I've been going to that studio and it honestly took me six months to be consistent with just going four times a week, like it was so hard to just stick to it because there'd be nights where I'm like I just don't want to go, but I was also not seeing progress and like my body, my strength, my mind, so it was like I need to like be more consistent with this, right. So, yeah, it's, that's a really big factor. I was going to bring something up and now I lost it.
Speaker 1:Oh sorry.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, no, no, no. This is just how my brain is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm sorry. I've just been asking for a couple of minutes, so I've just cooked tail. End of what you were saying there. And how do you keep going through that then, just like you said on the night, on the days when you're like I don't want to be bothered, or and having faith that something is going to benefit you, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's. It's knowing that like consistency is everything, and it's it's the same way, like easier said than done, right, but like I think it's the same, with me not drinking, like I haven't touched alcohol since December 29th 2019. And it's I also work in in being in sales is very much a heavy drinking culture, like it is it's.
Speaker 3:I can imagine there's a lot of kind of social events and it's a lot of happy hours and, like you know, you're kind of expected to like schmooze and that's fine, but I've found a way around it and I think that again, like just knowing that you're better on the other side, like I won't have a hangover in the morning, and like with my workout, I'll sleep better that night, I will feel better, Like everything in my stomach will work better, like go gut health right, like all these things are like little little things, but they have such a big impact.
Speaker 3:And I mean I I'm no pro on willpower, but I've definitely grown to exercise willpower a lot more. So it's it's an ongoing, ongoing struggle, but here we are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's interesting using that. We think we use that word all the time Willpower, and it's got some I don't know, because if you haven't got great willpower, how's? Quite negative connotations, doesn't it? And I can't remember that statistic about children with ADHD, how much more they're criticized than than kind of new difficult kids and and that sense of willpower and. But it's, sometimes it's you, just you're, you're going against the grain, aren't you? Sometimes it's it feels so unnatural to do something, also uncomfortable sometimes, rather than it being like a, I don't know, maybe I personally see, see it as because I've always said that about myself I've got.
Speaker 2:You know, you just need willpower, do willpower I feel like I've got like zero willpower with certain things and and and that really hits kind of. I don't know about you as well. I know you said that you can be really hard on yourself. But that sense of self-esteem, just you know, overall picks a battering, I think, doesn't it when you have, when you have any kind of struggles that aren't, that aren't perceived as normal, if that makes sense. You know, I'm sure even before you had your ADHD diagnosis, having you know the but the personality disorder diagnosis and all of those things, it's, it's always the case of why can that person do it and I can't? Yeah, that's my experience anyway.
Speaker 3:So 110%, and like again going back to like being in a sales capacity. It's a super competitive space, like, whether that's, you know, with your colleagues or with yourself, right? Like I wanted to move into a management role for a really long time, like even before I started at the company I'm at now, like I want to manage people because I I love watching people succeed and I like giving them the tools to succeed. So I think again, being in a competitive space, like it's so hard to not to not compare myself to other people and like compare my growth to other people. A lot of the folks that I work with are younger than me. Like it's, it's, it's a tech company, right? So there's a lot of young people and they're they're extremely ambitious.
Speaker 3:I am, for the most part, older than than most of the people that that I surround myself with, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I definitely feel myself like asking internally, like you know, it seems like it's things are just easier for them and I did this in school too like just, oh, like you just get good grades, yeah, you close big deals, like all these these things, but it's, but it's, it's all me just being. It's like all of these, these things I'm thinking about myself that are negative, but I'm not giving myself any recognition for what I have accomplished. It's almost like we just break away, yeah, yeah, and it's, it's I really, really want to strive to just like, and I'm. I'm a hypocrite In a sense, because I'm the kind of person who preaches, celebrate the small wins, and then I just go and beat myself up when I don't, when I don't get somewhere, if I don't get five feet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, If I don't get five feet forward in my head, I took 20 steps back, you know. So I think yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And when you're describing those scenarios, I I recall feelings, a sense of panic, when I think I'm not, yes, I'm not achieving what other people should be achieving, and it but it and it's. How is it measured? And it goes back to that, what you were saying about the school system, how it's really catered for one one type of learning and so the achievements that you can't measure that equally can you If, but but if it's measured just on one type of brain and how that works, then it's. You're on like a hiding to nothing, aren't you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, and I think, like I would love to know I'm sure I'm sure you both have talked about this, maybe on other episodes, but, like the the whole topic around like there is definitely a surgeon woman coming out being like I'm diagnosed with ADHD and the consensus has been that it's a boys thing, you know. So, like I'm, I'm hoping that in the next year, in 2024, we see more research on women's studies, like, and again, a lot of women that I've talked to come from having been diagnosed with BPD and, lo and behold, in their adult years they have. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's really interesting what you were talking about before, kelly. But it's, yeah, I think I endorse.
Speaker 3:I mean that's how it's going. I think there was a bit of a leg there.
Speaker 1:Can you hear?
Speaker 2:me Louise.
Speaker 3:Louise, can you hear her?
Speaker 1:Rosa.
Speaker 3:Oh, technical difficulties.
Speaker 1:No, I think it's really interesting, a bit like the idea of so was it bipolar disorder? Is that something that you can have for a short space of time, or is it chronic? Or has it been ADHD all along, like? What are the differences, what are the similarities and actually how do you feel about it? Do you feel that the ADHD fits better for you as a diagnosis than the bipolar disorder or border borderline personality disorder ever did?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely Like that's. I really do think that I fit the ADHD mold a lot more and my boyfriend can definitely like attest to that, because he's the one person I've lived with through all of COVID and he's seen my progress and he's seen, you know, and he said, like you definitely are handling situations that would have been like like oh yeah, like completely mental breakdown. He's like we're handling those situations so much more better like and more calm and like not just not being faced, and I think it's like thinking ahead, like the bigger picture right, like is this going to matter in five years? Probably not. I mean, again, easier said than done and it's.
Speaker 1:It's definitely something that I'm constantly working on, but yeah, Right, I was interested as well to know about what was your school life like when you moved into your teens and went to secondary school. Did you find that you kind of continued to struggle, or did you get more support, or what was that like?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was very much I was. I was the odd one out, like it didn't change from public school. I very much I was like a floater in the sense that like I would have friends in different like groups of like you know, like the clicks, like the jocks and nerds, like I had friends in all. Yeah, you're kind of friends with everyone, yeah, but I just I kind of that's okay, it's okay, yeah. No, I definitely like kind of floated around socially and then academically, like I think teachers could suspect like my report cards definitely were still the same.
Speaker 3:I think it was a little bit worse in public school, like the comments about not focusing. It was like that in high school. But I think high school I had the opportunity to better identify what my strengths were. Like I excelled always in English my courses. I excelled Maths always will struggle. I always struggled with math. But I had in grade 12, I had a fabulous math teacher who I actually still keep in touch with. She was just the coolest person. Like I think all teachers need to.
Speaker 3:This is a bold statement, but I think teachers need to have a lot of education and training on neurodiverse folks. I think that that's maybe where that's one of the issues with the school system is, again they're trained and students are catered to just one type of learning. It's no wonder so many people struggle. There was even in high school. There was so many people that I went to school with that were brilliant but their grades were shit. It just goes to show, like I've been told by friends that have children now, that the school system is definitely better. One of my friends is a teacher and she said it's not like that anymore. I was like good. I hope for the sake of my nieces and my nephew that it's a lot more inclusive. People are trained to know that. Not everybody is neurotypical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that is such an important message, isn't it? I think that can go across more than education curriculum and teachers and the like. It can come across healthcare, all those various settings. I think it's important that it's not just accessible to the professionals. If they want to learn more about it. It should be mandatory, because it just should be all inclusive, just as a baseline. I do think that quite frustrating that there was something I was thinking of earlier about. Oh God, it's gone. This happens to me all the time, I feel as if it's worse on my medication than it ever was.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I commend you and Louise. I mean having ADHD and having children. I'm sure that is like a whole other feat of trying to manage. So I consider my cats my children.
Speaker 1:It's certainly a different ballgame, but actually much better now that I have the diagnosis than before I just felt as if I was always drowning, just firefighting, rather than actually getting to enjoy the children. But I understand myself so much better now. Did you find that after your diagnosis that you were able to reflect across your whole life and it just feels as if a lot of things click into place? Is that something that you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100%. I think, also understanding emotional dysregulation and how I would have reactions to things that to somebody else might seem like no big deal, but to me we're a big fricking deal and I'm always trying to educate my boyfriend, my friends, my family. I see a video on Instagram and it's like one of those like there's a couple actually, I think they're from Australia, tara and Barry, and they're always like doing little videos on ADHD. Oh, yeah, yeah, what it's like being a couple and having ADHD and is that the leading with the blue hair Is?
Speaker 1:she get blue hair and they've just released a boot go.
Speaker 3:That's another couple. They're great too. I forget their handle, but they're great. But Tara and Barry, they actually just launched a podcast and Tara has ADHD. So yeah, great, great, like content to follow and like very, very relatable there's. There's so much stuff out there and I think that's the other thing as much as like people bash social media and it's definitely it's got to be handled the right way. I think there's so many resources out there to help people. They're not alone and I've totally got off topic. I'm sorry I'm doing. What I do is covering everything.
Speaker 1:It's funny, isn't it? I always feel as if I need to give a backstory about everything. So I was chatting yesterday about my daughter's swimming lesson, but in order to cover this women lesson, I had to make reference to the swimming lesson that we've had the week before to decide. You know, to highlight what that was like, but also the lead up to getting the swimming lessons. You know all the hassle and I think to myself I don't need to talk all around the subject. I could just get to the point. But I think that really difficult because I feel as if I'm giving people information out of context and they need to know the whole thing that ends, and out of absolutely everything I get it.
Speaker 3:I'm the same. I'm like and I'm also and I just recently realized this I'm a detail oriented person, like when I want to be, but like I'm very much all about details and like being very thorough, and I think that again is maybe like a hyper focused thing. I was curious for you are you more like on the inattentive side, hyperactive or combined? Combined? Ok, me too.
Speaker 1:That's what I was told yeah, and I think for me, I've experienced a lot of cycles of hyper fixation where I, whether I know it or not, if it's a good idea or a bad idea, I can have more things over in my mind and then it gets to. This is if I'm psychologically building myself up for the next hyper fixation and I'll be researching whatever it is I want to do. So let's say crochet, for example. I don't know how to crochet, so then I was looking at all the different nice projects that people do online. And then how do you learn how to crochet? So then I was watching YouTube videos and then I bought all the stuff. You know I've got a garage full of crochet stuff hats, baby booties, cuddly toys, baskets. You know, I've got a garage full of crochet stuff, you name it. And then one day I just woke up and was like I'm bored of that now.
Speaker 1:Yeah because I've learned. I've learned how to do it. Look, it's not going to serve me anything. Another one was Macrami and yeah, with the cord, and I made so much stuff that I ended up selling it at a Sunday market and thinking I was going to listen to some kind of. I seem to be quite career focused, so whatever my hyper fixation is at the time, I will always say, oh, I wonder if I could do this for a job. What if I could start my own business doing this? That's what I do too. That's so funny.
Speaker 3:I literally okay, it's so funny you're saying this because I had this conversation with my boyfriend and I was like I just want to like monetize whatever I'm good at. Like yeah, and I like, well, who doesn't right? Like, if I could, I love to walk, I love to walk. So if I could just make money by walking, that would be cool. But like I'm like you, like I'm a very career focused person, hence like why I want to get into management and, like you know, I've been at my company for two years now and I've learned a lot about technology and I actually just recently joined the diversity and inclusion team and like that really sparked my my.
Speaker 3:You know, I think I, shortly after I joined, I saw your call out for guests on your podcast and I was like I'm doing it and I think you know I listened to the episode before and it sounds like you guys talked to your last guest about this but being apprehensive about putting it out there right into the workforce. Like I have ADHD and like I've honestly gone back and forth with it. I'm like my colleagues know, and that's okay, but I'm thinking long term, like what if, in five years, I need a job and the rest of the time I'm going to be like you know I've applied, like I don't know I really I really struggle to know if it's something I should just put out there and know that like the right thing will come along, or do I? You know, I? What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's difficult, isn't it? So I, I am a midwife to trade, so to speak, but I was suffering really badly with burnout. Just not looking after my own well being and being a massive empath, as a lot of ADHD people are, I found it difficult to navigate all the kind of political things that happen within any organization. I felt as if I wasn't really moving any further forward with my career, but I absolutely loved my job. I just I think I felt a bit strangulated by the limitations of working within the health service. So that that actually is the catalyst that led me to get in assessed, because I just felt that I constantly hit itchy feet. I was looking for the next thing to do and the next thing to do and the next thing to do, and I couldn't understand why.
Speaker 1:If, say, for instance, I recognized that something in a policy was not according to national guidelines, I would urgently want it fixed, because the two things have to align. But things don't work like that. They take time. You know you've got to provide the evidence and the research to back it up, and then it has to go through a certain team and then they need to authorize it. And you know it's it's slow paced, but I wanted those things done ASAP.
Speaker 1:And I'm sure you might be similar in that sense that when you decide that you want to do something, you want to have it done yesterday. You can't sit and wait. It's the right, the wave, almost, isn't it. You just kind of pick it up and run with it because it's as if I'm going to forget about it or I'm going to lose interest in it, and I think it's a really good idea. I really have to move with it right now. And so the diagnosis then led me to just say, well, I'm resigning and I've moved into sexual health, which, in actual fact, is far better for my well-being because the hours are much better.
Speaker 1:I work 12 to 6 on a Monday, 12 to Tuesday, and then I do some other days working from home, not in terms of sexual health, but just with the podcast and our website and stuff like that, and it still keeps my hand in clinically, but it means that I have more time to invest in myself, which has been really helpful.
Speaker 1:I think that wholeheartedly. I believe that you need to make a career doing something that you love in order for it to be successful, don't you? Especially if you're hoping to be self-employed. I'm doing a master's degree in perinatal mental health, so the mental health of women on their pregnancy journey, and for my research, which starts kind of in the middle of September I'm researching ADHD women's experiences of maternity services because I would really like to be able to rewrite the narrative almost of those women who are neurodiverse, because we don't make any considerations for them, we don't make accommodations, we don't even ask about their neuro status in pregnancy, which I think is actually really important because we process it, we process information differently, we experience so many things differently, like the baby moving inside your tummy, childbirth, processing pain, etc. All those things they don't really get considered in terms of maternity.
Speaker 1:So I've found a real burning passion for that and I think if you can find something similar, it might be to do with the diversity and inclusion team, which I think seems absolutely brilliant. There is another, jade Hadfield, who we had on the podcast. She also is in the diversity and inclusion team at her work. It makes me feel like listening to that podcast episode and I think she's been doing lots of kind of webinars and sessions and stuff about her own lived experience and I suppose she's in HR so she's probably making wider accommodations for other people within that setting to be able to help them at work, I guess.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what was her name? Jade Hadfield. Okay, Jade Hadfield. Okay, I will definitely listen to that one for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was really good. Have you asked for any accommodations at work since your diagnosis?
Speaker 3:I wouldn't say like formally. I definitely have a manager that's extremely supportive and he came to. There was a my very first diversity and inclusion meeting. I'm going to say like a month ago. I spoke on it and I told him about kind of the same thing I shared here, about like how I got diagnosed, the report cards, the testing report, and he was on the call for that. He just wanted to hop on just to learn more and he kind of knows now how I tick.
Speaker 3:Like you know, I really really don't like being micromanaged. I mean who does? But that's something that I really struggle with is like hire me to do a job and trust that I'm going to do it and like if I have an issue I'll come to you right. So, and he doesn't micromanage but he knows now kind of like like the things I might need assistance with. And he said like you know, how can I better support you? So I think I've never really had to ask for accommodations, but as a team, the committee were were putting together a playbook, if you will, for lack of a better word, but to better educate our leadership team on this and how we can be accommodated. So everybody's kind of you know, pitched in different ideas and and I really hope that in the new year we see a difference.
Speaker 3:So and and yeah, but I really liked your your point about doing something that you love. I think that that's. I'm still trying to figure that out Honestly, and I I see all the time on LinkedIn that a lot of people with ADHD end up becoming entrepreneurs because they just do things their way and I'm like really think that that I could excel. I just need to figure out what I want to do.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and I think I've been reading quite a lot of books around the kind of whole neurodiversity and feminism aspect and all that kind of stuff really gets me fired up. Yeah, I think that you just you've got to try on a lot of different things, don't you, before you find the thing that makes you tick. Yeah, exactly, whether that's you know, I don't know, doing public speaking or anything, you know, like there's there's a lot of what's that I don't even know how you would describe them, but there's around the UK there's quite a lot of neurodivergent women who are going into like corporate workplaces and doing like a lunch and learn where they'll come in and do, I don't know, a kind of 25 minute presentation about their kind of journey to diagnosis and how different organisations can be more neurodivergent friendly, not just for the staff but, you know, for the whole customer journey and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:So I mean you might? You're still yet to find your niche, aren't you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think so, I think so, definitely. But yeah, that's, that's a, that's all. That's a really good idea, like going in and just educating people. I think I, I like that.
Speaker 1:I'm guessing that we've lost Louise along the way. I think her internet signal is probably not brilliant while she's in Turkey in her fancy villa.
Speaker 3:That's okay. That's okay. I do have to hop soon. So yeah, I mean I'd love to talk all day, but work calls.
Speaker 1:I think that's the best question before we go, if that's all right. Louise always likes to ask this question at the end. But are you able to recognise something, the most ADHD type thing that you've done ever or over the last week? So if I give you an example, so you're not out there alone, over the past few weeks I was at my best friend's wedding. I'm not sure if I've shared this in another episode, but at the end of the night I was at my best friend's wedding and at the end of the evening they gave us sparklers to take this really beautiful photograph of the bride and groom just surrounded by all these little sparkler bits in the photograph. And I had made a joke prior to this, saying that's I'm sure this is wise to give me a sparkler, because if there's anybody that's going to set your dress on fire and it's going to be me and sure as shit in the next five minutes the sparkler ash fell from my sparkler onto the train of her dress and set it alight.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:I mean it'll go down in history as probably the worst that I've ever felt in my life. But also, you know, it's a lasting memory for her, although I have been very apologetic. She keeps saying, but it just adds to the day, because now, every time I look at the photograph it makes me laugh and smile because I know that I know what was really happening in that scenario. And the other thing is that I yesterday was carrying a tray of drinks in a restaurant to the children and my friend and her child and I misjudged where the table was in relation to the tray and I dropped a whole lot of them and so that was every single drink. I think just my spatial awareness is not very good. So I do tend to go through these kind of clumsy disastrous, particularly round about my menstrual cycle. I think it tends to get worse. Yeah, is there anything can you relate to that? Is there anything that you can share? That is a bit of a giggle, just like oh, I've done it again.
Speaker 3:Oh, like, I also like just started my time of the month, so I get the whole menstrual cycle thing. I think when I have an out of the blue, like little meltdown, you know like nothing really, maybe something triggered it, but like that's when I'm like okay, like either, like I'm, I'm typically it's right before I get my period right, so and that's when I'm very like. Oh, on the weekend, as an example, I drew, like my boyfriend his name is Brock he counted how many times I dropped something on on like Saturday or Sunday. I dropped things like 20 times on the weekend. I just kept dropping things, dropping things.
Speaker 3:I'm like what? Like why am I so clumsy? So, definitely that. But I think also at the end of the day, when my medication starts to wear off, I the other night, like two nights ago, I was on shine, the website, and I just got hyper focused on finding a certain dress. I was literally scrolling for an hour and I was like, okay, I'm hyper focusing, I need to go to bed, but that's definitely yeah, and I think what do they call it?
Speaker 1:Doom scrolling.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's. I mean, we're all. I think many ADHDs are because the algorithms are all set up to give you that dopamine hit, aren't they? Oh man, yeah it's, you know. It's half past one in the morning. Have you ever not slept yet?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, we're like where did the time go?
Speaker 1:What, I have something to do, like I should be sleeping, yeah, but eating yourself again, don't you think?
Speaker 1:And I'm not very good at this. We live and learn. It's been lovely to chat to you, kelly. Thank you so much for sharing everything that you have done. I think it's really important and I think it's going to resonate with a lot of the listeners that are tuning in, because I think we can all really, you know, relate to that experience of being that younger child and the little Kelly, and it's very emotive, I think. So thank you very much for sharing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This was awesome and happy to join again down the road if you'd like.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I did a podcast in the past with my partner, so I love this kind of stuff. So we'll give Louise my best and all the best to you, laura, and I'm sure that we'll talk soon.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely, and let's keep in touch on LinkedIn. It'll be good to hear how you're getting on and all the different things that you're up to, but yeah, all the best. And it was lovely to meet you. Thank you, take care, have a good one. Bye.