Navigating neurodivergence can feel like navigating uncharted territory. However, with understanding and acceptance, neurodivergent individuals can find a path that leads to surviving and thriving. This episode offers a compassionate exploration of ADHD and neurodivergence, focusing on the shared experiences that unite us and the power of honesty and open conversation in fostering understanding and acceptance. We discuss how to handle moments of mental blankness, and how embracing these moments can lead to a more humanistic connection with others.
As we delve deeper, we shed light on the often misunderstood world of adult ADHD and Autism diagnosis. Whether you're a neurodivergent adult or a parent of a neurodiverse child, you'll gain valuable insights into recognizing symptoms, differentiating between typical teenage behaviour and behaviour that needs addressing, and the crucial role of establishing boundaries. We also discuss a fascinating concept known as body doubling, and how it can be a game-changer in helping young individuals comprehend and complete challenging tasks.
Finally, we explore the transformative power of yoga and mindfulness for those living with neurodivergence. Discover how these practices can offer physical relief from symptoms of trauma and stress, and foster emotional healing. We also highlight the pivotal role of body repetitive behaviours and self-soothing techniques to calm and balance the nervous system. Join us for this enlightening conversation, filled with practical strategies and valuable insights for embracing and thriving with neurodivergence.
https://counselling-with-iffat.com
Registered Member MBACP (Accredited)
Outro
This is a special edition episode recorded from a webinar.
Navigating neurodivergence can feel like navigating uncharted territory. However, with understanding and acceptance, neurodivergent individuals can find a path that leads to surviving and thriving. This episode offers a compassionate exploration of ADHD and neurodivergence, focusing on the shared experiences that unite us and the power of honesty and open conversation in fostering understanding and acceptance. We discuss how to handle moments of mental blankness, and how embracing these moments can lead to a more humanistic connection with others.
As we delve deeper, we shed light on the often misunderstood world of adult ADHD and Autism diagnosis. Whether you're a neurodivergent adult or a parent of a neurodiverse child, you'll gain valuable insights into recognizing symptoms, differentiating between typical teenage behaviour and behaviour that needs addressing, and the crucial role of establishing boundaries. We also discuss a fascinating concept known as body doubling, and how it can be a game-changer in helping young individuals comprehend and complete challenging tasks.
Finally, we explore the transformative power of yoga and mindfulness for those living with neurodivergence. Discover how these practices can offer physical relief from symptoms of trauma and stress, and foster emotional healing. We also highlight the pivotal role of body repetitive behaviours and self-soothing techniques to calm and balance the nervous system. Join us for this enlightening conversation, filled with practical strategies and valuable insights for embracing and thriving with neurodivergence.
https://counselling-with-iffat.com
Registered Member MBACP (Accredited)
Outro
This is a special edition episode recorded from a webinar.
constantly looking at my phone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's I, and actually I think the overplanning brings a lot of anxiety as well, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I've got like five sheets of paper in front of me, messy handwriting. I can't actually understand what I've written. I'm thinking this might help me if my mind goes blank.
Speaker 2:Probably won't look at it, but I don't think my mind won't, won't go blank blank, because I always find that everybody that we've spoken to on the podcast and I don't know if you find that with other people who have ADHD or any level of neurodivergence the conversation tends to just blow because we have so many shared experiences. Maybe there's a lot of stuff to talk about. I think there's just a varying amount of experience and things to share, which is yeah, it is true.
Speaker 1:And also this we know, we've entered the space knowing that this is a space of acceptance yeah, no judgment, no shame. Yeah, exactly yes. And compassion, and so that makes it a bit easier.
Speaker 1:And also I was watching like a year ago, some online webinars for like two days on ADHD and women. It was great, it was very good, but the number of times this each speaker said, oh, what was I saying? Oh, I forgot what I was saying. It was refreshing to see that, yeah, yes, and it's great so, I just like it's great. So, and even if that happens, great what's the sort of the end of the world? And it really is that you know, we're still here in our life and I've been kicking. And then when I'm with my clients, when I'm working with them and we're talking, and they say, oh, mine's gone blank, so he's fine, just chill, just ease into it, and once you sort of relax into it, it can come back into your mind, maybe a bit later. Maybe talk about the morning.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and you set up right up in your bed, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1:But exactly a number of times that happens, but sometimes we do. If we just relax and breathe and just bring it down, it can come back a bit later. If we sort of know that, and I do that all the time in my sessions. And then and I'm modeling that I've got I was saying I chilled a bit, carried on to something else, and then it came back. It sort of creeps back forward. Is it safe for me to come out? Is thought sort of like coming forward and it can happen.
Speaker 3:Do you share that? Do you share that?
Speaker 1:I do. I do Because I like to say look, I was going to say something, Then I forgot. But let's see I'm going to chill and let's see if it comes back. And most often the non it comes. And the clients I work with they know that I have ADHD and autism as well.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's what I was going to ask. I think that's a really interesting one because obviously, being quite newly diagnosed myself and now kind of working with I mean just the very nature of mental health because obviously that's my background is that you can have lots of people with overlapping symptoms, and so I think I've always really related to patients and clients wherever I've worked. But now it feels like there's this, there's this kind of club, like in a good way, a good club. I feel quite comfortable to disclose it, and when I started I've seen you've got lots of experience with it, and I suppose when you first started practicing, I mean for us, particularly as medical professionals, it was boundaries, boundaries, boundaries Don't share anything.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, yes you know, and it was always like really frightening, like should I say something about myself, should I not? But I find I think quite naturally and organically happened in my work that even before I got diagnosed, that just starting, just sharing little snippets, allows to redress that power balance, because it's a lot of responsibility, isn't it? I suppose, if you've got a client coming in and they're like, oh great, there's this amazing counsellor, she's going to just fix me. And I know that we obviously set expectations and all the rest of it, but I mean, there is that power imbalance, isn't there?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and also it's. I guess it's been real and honest. I want to be congruent. I don't. I'm boundaries as well within that, but that is within my boundary, of course, and so I've included that in my boundary to say that this is so.
Speaker 1:I usually say that right the outset when I have the very first phone call, which is like an assessment talk about background, history, best hopes, and with that information I sort of give a plan of an outline of how I think we could work together and if it's acceptable then we go ahead. But so I know I say then I mentioned that and it's on my profile, which is on the BACP register, the file, yeah, which it says in there that I'm a neurodiverse counsellor. And I think more often than not it's hard to say people usually say it's okay and they work with me. They're handful of people who choose not to and that's fine, it could be whatever reason, and they probably won't say I just want to work. But the one person has mentioned that and that's fine, it's choices there, it's your choice and we are first and foremost human and individuals were unique and we all bring something new, fresh to the party.
Speaker 2:And I think that's really important to highlight is that, first and foremost, we are humans and if you can share a little bit of yourself, I think it helps the client to understand that you have an understanding or you have a genuine empathy for what they might be going through in terms of their neurodivergence. It just brings that humanistic element to it and takes away another barrier. Yeah, it does. That's what you don't want to take away from what they want to share.
Speaker 2:But I mean and I don't know if this is a relevant example or not, but my daughter goes to a special needs school and within that school they don't call the teachers Mr Smith and Missy Smith. They call the teachers by their first names, and that I find is so refreshing. And actually, what if we did that across? Yeah, all of the schools. Yeah, because what it is doing is actually it's allowing children to put trust in the teachers, it's allowing them to kind of be a step closer to the teachers without being unprofessional. I think obviously there's some needs to be boundaries in place there, but you know, teachers are humans, as well as our health care professionals, and I think it's important for people who are essentially service users to have an appreciation of that. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 3:It can feel. It can feel for me when, as was a lot of the flavor of what I do, you know, I'll give quite a lot of advice and recommendations and things like that about, you know, about kind of improving mental health, and sometimes I hear myself speaking and I'm like, louise, would you just listen to yourself, come on, do it yourself. You know, and it's, we've always got the answers, we've always got them in our, in our kind of toolbox.
Speaker 3:We don't necessarily use them on ourselves. Yeah, and I just I just find that I'm more comfortable now saying you know, maybe you should do this, that and the other, and let's try this, let's try that. And I say I know it's hard to always like doing it and I think for me that just helps break down those barriers, because the last thing I want is that people are coming see me. I know that they need to be able to trust and have faith in your kind of your professional expertise, and hopefully that is the case for most of us or all of us. But I also want them to realize that I'm not I'm not a perfect human, because it can be like you said it can be that shame that judging.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, you know it's interesting when you're talking about exactly that, but you mentioned trust and relationships. Trust, foundation of all relationships, and and you're talking about relationships with teachers and listening to your last episode when the speaker was talking about not getting on with a teacher. So, it's so much of what we do and our experience and how we can thrive. It can be based and often is based on a relationship with another person.
Speaker 3:How do you build a?
Speaker 1:relationship with another person, trust some teachers that we like, because we just get a good feeling, a good vibe. It's that guts, that intuition, it's that relationship and we do well in that subject. Teachers don't like that, that don't like the teacher don't do so well. So it's so important to invest so much in a relationship. That's it and we sort of know that, but it's obvious. You know no brainer, but it's important to highlight.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:If at what's your.
Speaker 3:Would you mind sharing your kind of personal story as much as you're comfortable doing Because I know, yeah, because I know. You said you have ADHD and autism. Is that right?
Speaker 1:Yes, that's right, that's right. And so I guess, late, late diagnosed, as many women and. But through throughout my adulthood I sort of knew. I'd always sort of joke with my friends and say they said, or Jordan Dexwine said, I'd say it's not on my timetable, so I'm not able to do that. So yeah, that was always a joke with me, but thinking back I'd joke my butt. You meant it. Yeah, totally Totally. It's true, it's not my schedule. Not going to do something without warning is discombobulating. There's what I'm planning to do.
Speaker 3:Late word yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that word, though it's discombobulating You're bouncing a basket so. But throughout my childhood I was like kept below the radar. I didn't want to be noticed, I was invisible at school. Nobody understood me. I didn't know what the hell was going on at school. I just went with the flow and just copied it. I didn't know. It was in a days, in my own world, and that all makes sense to me now. And even at uni, even at work, it was never picked up. When I was a kid nobody knew about anything, about neurodiversity or anything like that. But even at work it was never picked up.
Speaker 1:Master and master, he's doing so well in the job I do and enjoying it, but, gosh, nobody knew, obviously, the amount of hours and effort that I put in and also the quiet time I needed when everyone had left the office for me to get down to do stuff and therefore do long hours. Getting in early, because it's just too noisy, and getting it and settling in to the day. Going in to a school, for example, at about eight o'clock, noisy, everyone's rushing around, teachers getting ready. Going in like slightly earlier it's calm can ease in to your day, leaving ease out, leaving late that is when it's quieter. So, yes, your question's meandering and also so I'm going to be under lots of what do you do, though Keep your voice very soothing.
Speaker 2:Oh, do you? I'm going to be under all you want, because I'm going to work in a very relaxed state at this week.
Speaker 1:Lovely, that's nice to hear. That's nice to hear. That's quite important as well to get that feedback because a lot of work I do is online, so it's nice to know that Diagnosis you're talking about. So later in life, mostly it was about autism. I always sort of knew autism. Yeah, I can understand that, and it's interesting that I gravitated in my professional life to work with children who had autism, in ADHD, because I thought, yeah, I get that, understand that. Yeah, now I know why. I understood why something was comforting, why a child flapping their hands was comforting for them. Yeah, we didn't get excited. We get. Oh, yeah, we're going on a whole day. I'm really excited. We do that, everyone does it. We do the flapper hands.
Speaker 1:Again, it's a release of energy. It's a huge bit of energy within us. It has to come out and just like when we have them feeling anxious and feeling really intense inside, it's like I always say, it's like a tsunami of feeling. The tsunami, so big and powerful, is building up, it's rising, you can see it and it has to follow through. It hits the beach and there's devastation. But when we feel an overwhelm of feeling inside is intense, we feel that tsunami is rising and it's scary and we know what's going to happen, but we can acknowledge it. We can create a bit of distance. It all takes time and then it has to follow through. It has to come out. We can do it in a safe way. That's what we work towards allowing it to come out in a safe, healthy way.
Speaker 3:That's such a lovely way of saying it actually, because I've got some really bad examples, you know, like acronyms. But that is really lovely. That sense that the feeling is so intense and it's hard to describe to people, isn't it? It's hard for people who maybe don't typically experience those intense emotions regularly.
Speaker 1:And boy are you exhausted afterwards as well. It's exhausting so much on the body.
Speaker 3:And you think, just listening to you say about the kind of sensory things you think about and it's something that is only coming into my conscious now you know and just trying to understand what people are going through and acknowledge what me myself, I go through. But you think about the child who has got extreme sensory sensitivities, that has to get up in the morning, has to put clothes on that feel comfortable, has to get in the shower or brush their teeth to don't have a taste and it has to feel right.
Speaker 1:It has to feel right when you're doing these things.
Speaker 3:You're being rushed in a world made for neurotypical people, and it's so. I can't you know the stress then, by the time that child gets to school, I mean creaky that must be, and then you expect to sit in a class and kind of it. Just for me, it's only just becoming, I'm only just becoming really aware of it. But I beg to you, laura, you've been aware of this for a lot longer.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, in terms of I Jodie, just to kind of update you a little bit that she's 14, she has autism and ADHD and it is a very difficult age, isn't it 14 anyway? But I think when you throw in that kind of level of neurodivergence and learning difficulty and I think probably we forget as parents just how difficult it is for her and we find it very difficult to to know what is not bad behaviour but what is just typical teenage behaviour that we can perhaps reprimand or encourage her to do differently, versus what can not be helped. You know, I'm getting better at spotting what might have triggered the particular meltdown or an aggressive outburst, but I mean, as parents, I do find that very difficult. She hates skin in the shower, she hates washing her hair, she, she's just I mean she's just slow at doing everything and there's that kind of sense of urgency. In the morning she loves to sleep and it's really difficult to get her up and moving.
Speaker 3:Major as well.
Speaker 2:She does get up and move and she's the bloody nail's paced, so I feel as if I'm just down her throat all the time. Yeah, so I mean last night, for example, we had a bit of a to do because her bedroom was a mess. So we'd asked her to tidy the bedroom and handed her the Hoover and said and once you're finished, you can Hoover your room, but I don't know how to do that.
Speaker 2:Well, you do your food before you know. And actually our room probably didn't really need to offering, but it was just that whole act of we would like you to do this. This is a chore, you know. Whether it's you view it as pointless or not, just carry it out and do the task and then you can have some screen time or whatever.
Speaker 2:But, my God, she went on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on and on and on and on about how she had to have company, you know. And then I thought, god, my husband said to me do you think I handled that wrong? I mean he was adamant. And I said we, I mean you could have maybe approached it in a gentler way, you could have maybe just met what she was requesting and went up and stood beside her as she hoovered, and because I thought that's actually all she wanted in the end, once I had finished my tea, I went up and I was like, right, there's the Hoover, so you show me what you think you would do with the Hoover. And then she was. I mean, she was able to do it, no problem.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I bet like a security blanket or something, I suppose yeah yeah, that that's really interesting actually, so lovely actually, the way a difficult situation handling it in such a nice holding it nicely. Yeah, children need boundaries. Everyone adults, everyone needs boundaries or need boundaries, and that's important to teach that as well, because even if a young person is resisting and saying no and feeling intensely inside, it can be quite scary as well.
Speaker 2:So it's even more important to have to hold the boundaries so that provides safety for them as well so it doesn't, and also that's a really interesting perspective, actually, because I suppose my natural view is that boundaries provide almost like discipline rather than safety. But you're right, it's about safety as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when you say about boundaries, my, so just very quickly, my husband really struggles with being firm with our children. He's, I think he's, you know, he has ADHD, he has, you know, RSD as well as you'd expect and and we kind of understand it a bit more now. But when he, when he is firm with them now, or he has to discipline them or set those boundaries, he is always shocked that they still come back to him and love him. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3:And I'm saying but no, that that's what they. They don't know, they want it, but that's what they want. They need it because it's like you say, it's that safety of knowing, oh, this is how far I'm going to go, but then they're going to kind of catch me, I suppose, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's like it's like young people and adults, humans test boundaries. It's like an elastic band. You sort of stretch it, test, somebody might test to see how far it will go and then, depending on how the person is setting the boundaries, and they get a sense of all right, this is how far I can go. All right, I got an idea. Now, this is the remit within which I work and they it's they're more aware of what they can, for example, boundaries and counseling, how much they choose to share and how it goes. It starts at this time, ends at this time. Bang on, I'll turn up. That builds trust. You know someone who turns up and sticks to yes, we said we're going to start this time, we're going to end the time and sticks to it.
Speaker 1:Then they know that even if it's like going a minute over, it's like panic, we're supposed to finish. This can be work against the trust that you work, that you work so hard to build. But you know the thing you're saying about the company wanting company, that moral school that so can be so helpful. Just having someone even that seems seemingly a simple task to encourage adults and young people that this has to be done. All right, how about I? You need to make a difficult phone call. How about I sit next to you and we do it together. Just someone being there just helps you just kick start. Is that task? Initiation is so difficult? Yeah, just get started so tough. Someone next to you nice.
Speaker 3:So, with that being the same kind of email, it's like body doubling, that's her Body.
Speaker 1:Doubling is amazing. That's the same thing. It's just having the relationship again, conglomerate relationship. Somebody is giving their time to be with you in something that inverters. Commerce is simple because actually very hard to do. So that's the relationship you're building. Yeah, yeah, and they play some understanding, no judgment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:If we. What about your experience as a child? So you were masking a lot. If it sounds like you were human to me, so stressed, masking that much, Do you find that it manifested itself in other areas? For you, I think yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that you hear about children, young people, go into school and masking being perfect and very different when at home. Yes, explosive. And then that's an indicator that they're trying so hard to do the right thing to concentrate and please the teacher and understand their friends and not break up friendships.
Speaker 1:And oh my God, it's just so much even thinking about it is making me tense and get home. You know, usually the mum, whoever's a primary caregiver, gets it. But also, at least it comes out For some people. Yeah, that's true, they may internalize it and keep it in, even at home. Nobody would know. Maybe at home it's not safe environment to release all of that. I just kept everything in. I didn't say anything to anyone's at home, I was just really did everything. So I think internalizing can be worse even. You know, like I said earlier, at least it gets out. So it has to come out. It's an army devastation. External devastation looks awful, it impacts other people, but it's out. Now you know the people, the children that get diagnosed, are the ones where it's externalized because they are a infectious commerce problem to other people.
Speaker 1:So they say oh, we've got to do something about it. But the ones who internalize keep quiet. Nobody knows None the wiser. And especially with girls, keep it quiet, keep very good at masking and may get diagnosed much later on Puberty. Usually when things just get way too much, it's like too much and the brain is the target organ for estrogen. So fluctuations during puberty cause that young person, that young woman, to therefore react because it's just all going on and the brain's responding in that way. And we know, before periods as well, during the estrogen levels, it can be particularly difficult.
Speaker 3:So the quiet ones, yeah, the radar, would you say.
Speaker 1:hi, iq is a barrier as well, oh yeah because, exactly because when you're a pain to someone else in, that is commerce, said with love, you know, then that's when people do something You're acting out in vertical commerce or your grades aren't good. But if you keep it quiet, keep it inside and you do, really do really well, seem to have friends, but you might be just copying them and following them around. Girls tend to look after each other, especially at primary, not so much at secondary. Things come out more than you see, notice more in secondary but yeah, in part primary you just carry on, but nobody knows that that little girl took ages to learning and learning a spelling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, much harder March or three times out, or stayed up late to do on a project that she'd be doing, or started like a project on the Egyptians like may have had like four weeks, but she started like a few days or night before you know, but nobody knows. Masking, keeping it to yourself quite, but getting it done and doing damn good.
Speaker 3:Did you simply do that? You internalised throughout. You weren't coming home like a pressure cooker, you were continuing that. Yeah, very compliant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very compliant, that's right. Compliant, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's all got to go somewhere, doesn't it it?
Speaker 1:does.
Speaker 2:If you're not in it, you're holding it within your body.
Speaker 1:then Totally right Within your body. That's where the yoga comes in, really nicely, this is a fantastic book. I don't know if you've heard of it. The Body Keeps a Score. It's really famous. Yeah, Bessel van der Kog Amazing.
Speaker 3:Amazing.
Speaker 1:So he talks a lot about. He talks about trauma mostly, but we can apply it to other things as well, things that we experience. Body remembers it. It's because when something happens and you get stressed or upset by something, you go into fetal position, you cower a bit, your shoulders get hunched in, you draw your knees up yeah, you go inward, don't you? Yeah, and body remembers that, and so when something happens, you might naturally do that and it's stored in the hips and shoulders, like that. So when you're in yoga you're doing something like, yeah, yeah, that's nice, nice actually.
Speaker 3:Nice to roll back when I'm stressed by shoulders, so interesting.
Speaker 1:It is, I think, we can put this in for an online yoga session now. Yeah, we could do it. Go to your bed, please, we could do so. When you're in yoga and you do what's called chest openers and you're broadening your collar bones and your shoulder heads are moving back and you're really opening your chest, and it can seem really unusual, especially if you're used to hunching over, and when you do a set of those, at the end you might get a release of feeling, which is good. It's the release. So, yeah, yeah, that you want. So that's why, in the book, talking about yoga releasing things that the body has stored inside for a lifetime perhaps, then that slowly gets released, so you don't have to talk about the trauma. I'm just going to open my mouth, you can just. It's embodied experience and releasing it in that way, and in the hips as well. That's why we can really tight hips and if you open them up, the same thing can happen as well. Wow, release.
Speaker 3:And that's interesting about the trauma as well, isn't it? Yeah, people don't always want to or not ready, but it's not necessary to actually it can be re traumatizing to talk to.
Speaker 1:It can be. It depends. It depends on the individual and training with therapists. But yeah, but that is one way to release and we forget. We forget what our body is doing. We just get caught up in our minds. We forget how to. That body is sort of the experience of physical sensations, and you may remember it when we have a panic attack, when the body is screaming. Listen to me, Listen to me how you have no choice. Well, it's actually is probably building up.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we may not notice it if this is disconnected.
Speaker 3:So is that? How do you feel that like yoga, or yoga particularly, is the one for you, is the one that helps you. Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1:That's why I've been practicing yoga for many, many years and, yeah, it helped. And during times are difficult. You see online articles yeah, do some yoga. And then I say, yeah, do yoga. And then for that time I'd be focusing and I wouldn't be thinking about my troubles. But when I left, they'd come back and think, oh, yeah, it's too much. But then over time, depending on, again, the relationship you have with each other, what you learn in yoga class, you learn to things that you learn you can do outside of your yoga classes yeah, breathing, and everyone talks about breathing. And yeah, and then people talk about me breathing a mindfulness and you think, oh, it's a bit boring.
Speaker 1:It's like yeah, I'm breathing all the time, but then it's really. That's a big conversation in itself and I think it depends on the relationship, like in counseling, the relationship. Once I've had a good relationship, then I introduce the idea of breathing and because the clients trust me a bit, they're willing to try the breathing, as opposed to session one just breathe. Oh well, I am breathing, hyperventilating. Actually, you need to trust someone else to try a new strategy. I agree.
Speaker 3:I agree, that's my experience as well, because lots of you know, lots of us, particularly if you're you know, if you're in quite a state of agitation, that's not the time to start learning to breathe mindfully, is it? I mean, you just go in steps and maybe just something else that's a bit more mindful. Maybe you know sitting there and trying to get rid of thoughts from your mind. You know kind of clear your mind in a way. Your breathe deeply. If you're too agitated, I almost feel that it can make things worse for some people who have quite. I'm not saying breathing techniques make anxiety worse. I'm not saying that at all. I'm talking about different levels of distress and sometimes that asking them to do too much of that focusing is not the answer. At that point they say you haven't realised that trust, or yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you know? What can help in those situations is I'll tell them so when I'm in counselling sessions and when I get to a point in the relationship that you know this sort of foundation of trust is there. And then talk about breathing is to practise breathing when you're not highly anxious.
Speaker 1:Practise breathing when you're feeling okay, when feeling a tiny bit uncomfortable. You don't have to label a feeling or get caught up all the time. I feel it, I don't know, but you can just call it comfortable or uncomfortable. Noticing when you're feeling comfortable but that feels like in your body, but noticing when you're feeling uncomfortable, small stages, throughout the day, throughout the week I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable. Okay, now it's within my. I can tolerate this level of discomfort.
Speaker 1:Maybe I can try breathing and if it says sort of longer exhalation shifts emotional state, so while trying to box breathing or even just basically inhaling and longer exhaling and trying it for a while, doing a few, and if you do box breathing sort of helps with the fingers and produces a visual use if you follow your finger.
Speaker 1:But when you're doing it, when you're less anxious and you actually feel a change and notice a change, that's evidence. But when you breathe deeply your heart rate does go down, we know that. But if you've done that, when you're less anxious, when you are highly anxious and really distressed, and if there's a bit of your mind that's a bit open and your brain hasn't been completely flooded with cortisol, and if you've been trying working on yourself, increasing self-awareness, then a bit of that door may be open. The fact that you're able to think is a good opportunity that, oh, you're not completely flooded, oh, I can try breathing out. I've seen the evidence, I can try it and see if it works. And it takes time and there's a whole lot of different types of breathing. I can guide you through breathing alternate nose breathing if you want and you've got the evidence, and then you might be more likely to try it with consistency when you're less anxious and consistency when you're feeling anxious to try it as well.
Speaker 3:So that kind of evidence, that's a really good way of putting it. It's a way of trusting your own techniques, isn't it Is trusting yourself to be able to. This is going to work because, like you said, there's evidence there and I suppose it works in reverse with things like graded exposure, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I think I'm sort of thinking.
Speaker 3:Just trying to just going at things very slowly, approach a fear very slowly. So if you're fear is relative to the supermarket, then maybe think about go adapting how you go going, at times quiet or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, the first builds up in your brain. So, in terms of the evidence, yeah, so it wasn't quite understanding the link. But yeah, the evidence you build up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's the evidence that you're training your brain to build up?
Speaker 1:Yeah, because the brain has the negative bias. It will remember. It will remember things that didn't go so well. Yeah, to protect you all that didn't go so well. So I want to protect you, to make sure that you're safe. But it doesn't fine tune the experience. So that's when you have to actively fine tune. No, there is not a bus coming towards me, it's just somebody didn't reply to my what's that message? And so, yeah, so you know my life is not in danger. But yeah, so we do. It takes a lot of positive self-talk. Sounds so basic and so simple.
Speaker 2:It's actually really, it's really difficult.
Speaker 1:It's very difficult to do Totally.
Speaker 2:Especially when you've had a lifetime of negative self-talk Trying to say unlawful, Strong yeah, that is, and really kind of mindfully trying to not slip back into those habits. Yeah, I think that's really important, Although it sounds really basic. It sounds as if you're just calming somebody off Go do some breathing exercises. Actually it is. Yeah, it's much more powerful than we get credit for. I think that's what we're like. I think that a lot of people it sounds a bit urban and kind of yummy, mummy-type feel that you've got someone like to try a month of mindfulness and see if that makes any difference Just breathe, just breathe, and the yoga mums and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:But actually if people could understand, you know, the likes of the body, remembers that you know, if we were a bit more educated, I think then we would appreciate the positive effects that these things can have on your life. Yeah, so did you start practicing yoga with that intention to relieve yourself of kind of past trauma or all the kind of trauma held within your body, or did you just do it for exercise, mindfulness, reading, that's a really good question trying to think about.
Speaker 1:Oh okay, oh yeah. Yeah, I think I remember when I first did yoga was when I was pregnant. I've got two boys, so that's when I started, because it was very good for antinatal exercise that's how I thought.
Speaker 1:So I think I remember my yoga teacher saying that that's how a lot of women enter yoga through antinatal classes do what's best for yourself and the baby, and also some people enter as a form of exercise. But it's actually so much more than that. That's just an element, just an element of it. So the movement that we do in yoga and the same type, is to prepare, ultimately, for meditation, so strengthening the body and linking the mind to the body and using your breathing to sort of for purification, to cleanse the body, because if you're not sort of strong in body, strong in mind, how can you sit down and meditate? That's the ultimate goal and it's a long journey, you know cliche, it takes time and it's an individual experience.
Speaker 1:But yes, I think I started like that and then just got more and more and more into it. And then, when I did the teacher training, I thought I need to combine yoga with counselling in an official way so that I can, with my online work and do talk to different types of breathing, for example. That's easily accessible online, but also face to face, doing some counselling yoga together, intertwining more movement based on what the needs of that individual is, sort of emotionally, mentally and physically and really going with that flow of embodied sort of experience of how you're feeling and how to release it. And we can talk if we want or we can move. But I think it works so well together.
Speaker 2:And so are you then able to almost recommend certain stretches or certain poses that are going to help them to release a particular area of tension or interesting, a bit like social prescribing, isn't it that you're able to do there and then and facilitate that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and also some things don't feel right for an individual. Some as in, as poses don't feel so right for an individual. Maybe it's just that moment in time, maybe it's a physical thing, or maybe it's just some sort of resistance for whatever reason, which is interesting into clock and maybe you address later on as well. But yeah, so again, what's appropriate for that individual in that moment? What is that? Anything, really, any sort of thing. It's relational as well, you know, building a relationship, again, always comes down to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I hope you don't mind me asking a bit of a more personal question. But in relation to pregnancy, when were you diagnosed then? Were you diagnosed pre pregnancy, post pregnancy?
Speaker 1:Post, post, post, post, post, like a few years ago. Okay, my children are in the 20s.
Speaker 2:And how would you describe your experience now, looking back through a neurodivergent lens? Yeah, yeah, how would you, would you be able to kind of recognise what might have been done better for your pregnancy experience, your delivery experience?
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, that's right. Yeah, gosh, you know, I hadn't thought about that in terms of my pregnancy experience as well, actually. And well, I had to have it my way, first of all, like I was sorry, adam, and I don't want it to a water birth. So, born in water and from a sex at home as well. Remember when we were doctors say no, you really can't have a home water birth. And no, don't say no to me. And I did my own wonderful midwife and was able to facilitate that. They didn't have that in my local area. That's why he said no. Anyway, so no understanding. I want to be heard. Do you want to be told? Listen to me, listen to my opinion?
Speaker 1:Hypersensory experience as well, and therefore needing release during labour, during delivery, and again, hypersensory, sort of that. You'll deliver that, your birth, some bits that were quite difficult, sort of the water and you would help. Because I knew the idea in my mind of delivering out of water, definitely not in a superposition for me being upright. I just knew that wouldn't support me. I just knew that this is where it needed to be. This would work in water to keep me buoyant, but a lot of it was a sensory thing. It's a hugely sensory, isn't it yeah?
Speaker 2:One of the probably most thing that they orientated experience that you might have, I think personally.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, I didn't get the support initially, but I had to find it myself. And then I did find one for midwives who just understood, and with it I think I'd like three midwives at home. Well, that's really amazing.
Speaker 3:I think that's great for you to persist like that, isn't it I did? It's really positive, because so many of us don't understand even our own needs or what we can have or and we're still living in this real world of just do what we're told. It's true, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And like, say, even though you didn't have any diagnoses at that point, you were still able to recognise where your, where you needed to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then, how did you find your postnatal experience? If you look back on it, did you feel overwhelmed? Yeah, I know this is very important for everyone, but particularly for the neurodivergent brain, sleep is a massive factor and I think that's always very difficult to navigate for someone who's neurodivergent. In the postnatal periods that actually you have this other human being that's entirely dependent on you to keep it alive and help it thrive, but also at your core, you need to sleep to be able to function well. How was that experience?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so true. Yeah, I didn't sleep. I think I slept for many years. I think I had a full night's sleep when the children were in school. Yeah, so true. And I'm asked a lot. I wanted to be a perfect mum and get everything done myself, not ask for help and it was also a help being offered as well but just sort of overcompensating thinking I must do it really, really well because inside I'm not doing well, I'm going above and beyond and then adding to it just too much and not accepting help and getting really down and upset. I do remember my midwife at my postnatal I remember this when they do that questionnaire saying, oh, you're not depressed, are you? No, because I was doing something for you. She said that and then that actually would have been an opportunity for me to say actually it's too much. But she saw me being perfect. But if she asked the question properly, as you're supposed to, maybe that would have been an opportunity for me to say actually, no, it's too much.
Speaker 3:I can't do this.
Speaker 2:And I think we do generally just put ourselves under a lot of pressure, particularly in that newborn phase, and it's almost as if and I don't know who we're trying to prove a point to, but we're trying to prove a point that we can manage.
Speaker 3:There is a statistic, isn't there, about women in the postnatal period not getting diagnosed with any mental health problems, and it is mostly women from a professional background from maybe an educated background or professional background where you can really sense what you need to. It's that masking and you can sense what might be perceived as a danger, and that's at the core of everything. It's your child, isn't it? We go back and we unpick things more often than not. I don't want anyone to think that I'm a bad mum or that I'm not good at that sort of thing.
Speaker 3:Or is there any threat to that? Yeah, to that relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's. Obviously my background is in midwifery and that's where my research is going to be centered over the coming months, which has given me a feeling of excitement and dread and equal measure. But I do find it very interesting that, specifically in this generation, we're dealing with a generation of women who may or may not be aware that they have ADHD or autism, just by default because it's never been recognised, and I just really find it particularly interesting that quite often postnatally comes with an extreme sense of overwhelm and I just wonder how we can make the pregnancy and postnatal journey better for women on the whole, but specifically for neurodivergent women, and I'm also a great believer that whatever we can do to improve it for neurodivergent women will benefit neurotypical women as well, because why would we do that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, always Also, just like in the classroom. The strategies put in place for the child that's neurodivergent will help everyone. Visuals clear instructions in sequential order help everyone makes sense.
Speaker 1:So true, and it's always in the detail as well. You're talking about what would help women postnatal, nantinatal. It's not about the detail, because it is in the detail that makes a huge difference, like a small shift in something small can make a huge impact, positive impact. And it's the detail, for every individual might be different, it just gets a bit difficult, but it's just important to notice that the detail is where it's at.
Speaker 2:Yeah absolutely. And so your boys are grown. Now. What are they? Do? They live close by.
Speaker 1:They're, with me, both neurodiverse, and so a lot of support there as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah and how was that for them growing up? How soon were they diagnosed? How was that for you as a neurodivergent woman with neurodivergent children?
Speaker 1:That's one thing I would say I wouldn't maybe want to go into if we can edit, because, as they're young adults talking about their experience and they're quite private, I don't think they would. That's a big thing. I would, on a personal level, be happy in a one-to-one. I would answer that, but maybe not here. Is that okay?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, that's absolutely right.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you saying that at the beginning as well. Actually, I could have said that at the beginning because I thought that, but I forgot. No, that's fine.
Speaker 3:So my ask I'm quite interested the sessions you do where you combine it with yoga, are they like one-to-one? Yes, yoga talking all in one. Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is and it's so sounds like a lot and it is, so it's not maybe all of them in one in one go, but then, yes, it is, and this also includes a good sort of relaxation at the end as well. So, because it's nice, basically, but also it's another embodied practice of focusing on different parts of your body, and that's quite hard for people with ADHD, actually, because can be so wonderful a better word a bit boring perhaps for some people, but I think what that actually means is it's boring is wrong word, but people say it's boring, but actually the word is probably that it's hard to stay engaged with something so specific over an extended period of time, and to keep your brain stimulated is what actually means.
Speaker 1:But it's the relaxation part that allows you to focus on different parts of your body in sequence and sort of in a half sort of yogic sleep, one foot in, one foot out. You're sort of aware, but you also relax as well. You got a balance going. You're not like totally zoning out, falling asleep or some people do. That's fine if you do. But it allows for you to feel what also different parts of your body tuning in because we don't and also see what a relaxed state feels like when there's so used to be intense, anxious and restless, to see what that experiences like and working towards trying to get a bit more of that as well in session and outer session as well. So yeah, it combines lots of things really.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's interesting, it's interesting. So, like you say, it's always. Yoga is always on the list of things to do to increase your well being, and I've been on a course recently around eating disorders in.
Speaker 1:New.
Speaker 3:York and we're talking to a yoga therapist who kind of deals with that demographic specifically and that sense of calming the nervous system. Yes, totally, that's it. It's key, isn't it? For those of us with ADHD and autism as well.
Speaker 1:I would think, yeah, 100%. So I also include another thing. I include I pack in a lot in my session. You get the money as well. Yeah, I hope so. I really do hope so. And also I've got to say it's my special interest as well. I go for it, you know. Yeah. I go for counselling, my special interest, combining and working, doing that amazing.
Speaker 2:But also, how good is that, though? That's really inspiring, that you're able to use your special interest for you know your life's work, or you know your to pay your bills, and yeah helps, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I can go on about it as well. So, which is great? Yeah, absolutely. Which is why this is great, so I can go on about it. Polyvagal theory as well.
Speaker 2:Don't even do the yeah, briefly yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you hear about the vagus nerve a lot people talk about, vagus nerve is calming and that's to talk about the, about your nervous system. When you mentioned the nervous system, so the vagus nerve is the tenth cranial nerve, just at the base of your skull, and it's vagus means wandering, so it's a few nerves actually that wanders throughout your body below the diaphragm and above the diaphragm. So your gut, brain, gut connection you know a lot of people in your universe may have got issues perhaps possibly so below the gut and above the gut, so in your sort of, your heart, your lungs and also your throat and your face as well. So basically, the idea with the vagus nerve is your, it's like an internal surveillance system. Your body is looking out for a case of danger and case of support all the time. So that's why, having a negative bias, thinking all this is a bit dangerous or like that, you know, getting anxious to do something about it, you have this feeling to propel you to move, get out of the way, keep yourself safe. But it's also this vagus nerve is also looking for cues of social connection and safety, building relationships, which is why the vagus nerve is in sort of in the face as well, looking at other people's faces for cues of safety or danger.
Speaker 1:So we can sense a slight nuance in either direction. If someone makes a slight facial expression change on nervous system kicks it up. And if you're sort of super sensitive, have RSD, rejection, sensitive, dysphoria, super, super honed into that. And then you're anxiety because it's really quick and you just picked up a very subtle shift in someone's special expression because you're, you're tuned in and if you, if you throughout your life have you been constantly hyper vigilant you're super tuned in. And so that's why the vagus nerve can help this, like the throat as well, which is why, like singing, humming and chanting even stimulates the vagus nerve and bring anxiety down is also interesting Into the yoga, the chuck. There's a chakra, chakra there as well, which is interesting. There's lots of chanting and yoga, so that helps to you. That's why it works so well.
Speaker 3:You've got science, isn't it? Because these ancient, these ancient practices, they wouldn't have had the science to, yeah, to kind of back it up at that time, but just knew stick to be new. This is going to help.
Speaker 1:Very, very interesting. So basically, that's why I think it works really well. So it's like an education of know what's going on in your body also helps you bring things down. You're befriending your nervous system, basically. So what are we talking about?
Speaker 1:Polyvagal theory, so incorporating that in understanding what makes you, what triggers you, what's going on, how you can calm your nervous system down, understand what's happening and say to self you're safe, through various sort of various techniques and exercises. And also one thing is sometimes we don't know why we feel anxious. We think, but I don't know why I feel like this, really uncomfortable. We don't, because it's this is what I also like that polyvagal theory removes judgment and something wrong with you. It's just the fact that your internal surveillance system is so fine tuned to pick up something that you have even clocked it in your conscious mind.
Speaker 1:Unconsciously, your internal surveillance system has picked up a cube that's related to maybe your previous experience that's making you feel like this. So that's when we can think to ourselves and think positively Well, look around me, everything seems fine, I am safe. And exercises that they may have may have learned to bring anxiety down. You can do so. So you find tune by befriending your nervous system, and polyvagal theory teaches that, and yoga is one of the ways that you can help bring it down. Plus, other strategies are useful. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:But that's that's a really effective one. And is this the? Is this what the book that you're writing is kind of?
Speaker 1:Yes, so yeah, I'm writing a book. So I'm thinking I've had some experience of being obviously neurodiverse and professional experience and lots of books that I've written. I don't know what your experiences. I'll be interested here on self help books for people in neurodiverse. They're okay, they're all right. Some great books out there, you know, they're awesome, wonderful group, especially Ned Hallibalt love. I think he's amazing, I love him. He's brilliant and, yeah, I think so too and his books are really interesting as well. Especially he's neurodiverse as well. So I like that. But there's some other books that are big.
Speaker 1:Not going into the detail, like I said earlier, it's in the detail and sometimes it can be so basic, but it's in the detail. You make a slight shift here, huge impact. So the book that I'm writing and sort of be working through it for a while actually and this is one of the reasons, like I said earlier, coming on here is to getting out of my comfort zone, because this is hugely anxiety provoking for me. You know I'm much older now. You know I'm a mature adult and I can make lifestyle changes in which I have, which have helped. But doing something like this, which is not my choosing, I'm using the things that I speak to other people about to bring my anxiety down when I'm here.
Speaker 1:So the book I'm writing is looking at the detail and it's like it covers a whole load. I'm trying to think I thought Each chapter looks at sort of little steps that you can take, addressing specific issues, psychoeducation, things that you can do, actions, mantras, extra things or taking one step back, benefits, something somatic you can do grounding, exercises, yoga, other things like journaling, information and polyvagal theory as well, self care, and. But the chapters I'm gonna focus on will be like sleep, eating, focus, organizing self work, social planning, balancing emotions, time, time awareness adapted to change, sensory overload, gold-rated resistance, think before you do. Response, inhibition, distress, tolerance, bloody blood but so many is like a lot.
Speaker 2:So, yes, it's gonna be really helpful though, because I think that's what I'm working on the devil's in the detail, as you see, the detail, and so by addressing all these things, but in a detailed, simplistic way that's easy to reference.
Speaker 1:You have to read a whole big, long chapters. It's bullet points and visuals so you can dip in and out. Yeah, that's the idea.
Speaker 2:And I think the thing with you providing so much detail, it's gonna bring such greater understanding to people of how it's gonna help them.
Speaker 1:I hope so, because it's stuff that I've done myself, but it's not all about me. It's also my professional experience as well, my personal experience, and stuff that I've worked with my clients and that they've used, and some work for them and some don't. Some of these things work for me much better than others, but the fact is there's a huge selection. It's out there, easy to access, it's very specific. So some of the books that you see, they might talk about organising something, but actually there's like probably 10 other steps or 20 before that you can achieve that point, achieve that part. Yeah, you know, that's what. That's the thing that I find. That's the detail, that and it's going slowly, isn't it?
Speaker 3:It's thinking, well, where do I start? And particularly that sense of, like you said, you can dip in and out of the book that is really appealing to me.
Speaker 3:For example, it's not a chance I would sit and read a self-help book or an important book like that Cover to Cover. Yeah, because it's not always relevant to me at that point. Yes, so with my ADHD brain I'll just go oh, I don't mean to put yeah, I'll just skip this or put it down, but if you can dip in and out, that sounds really really useful.
Speaker 1:And it's very clear. The idea is that it's clearly labeled. There's a familiar format. So repetition, aids, consolidation, so there's a repetitive format with each chapter. So you will get like grounding exercises for each section. You'll get something specific on yoga for each section. You'll get different action points for each section, benefits for each section, psychoeducation for each section, right? So hopefully that's the. So you nearly finished with it, is it? No, it was taking me ages. I'm just trying to put a proposal forward for a publisher and it's so much work just to do that you have. No, I don't know, I was such a surprise. That in itself is a huge job. So I've been doing that and I have to provide one chapter. So the chapter is on emotion regulation, of course. So, and that's a biggie- the most important one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1:And also I talked about body doubling Lisa earlier and doing something with someone else, but the fact that I've actually told you as well, and other people who will be listening, I now have to do it. Accountability.
Speaker 3:Accountability.
Speaker 1:It's making me do this as well.
Speaker 3:And we will be checking Regina, we will be checking, checking my homework.
Speaker 2:When is it on? I'll let you some day, but it sounds really good.
Speaker 3:It sounds really good and useful, and I think I hope so. Just before we kind of leave it there, it would be. Will you be able to give us your details for people to access your services as well? Yes, yes, a good point Is that a good point.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is possible, so so so.
Speaker 3:So just email that if you want, if it, and then I can. Yes, yeah, I'll do that. In the show notes she says, like I know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:It's normally Laura who does all that, but yeah, that would be cool, that would be very, that would be good.
Speaker 2:I'll give it a go. And can I ask you a question about body repetitive behaviour?
Speaker 2:Yes, do you have any in particular that you do and what does that look like for you? So mine is, mine is finger picking and at the minute I've got an infected two fingers, these two that are particularly painful and throbbing and weeping, and I get up first thing in the morning. It's happening kind of walking around a bit like this trying to Trying to drain it, and yeah, I mean, it's a perpetual vehicle for me that actually because the skin's injured, then the skin then becomes dry and then it attracts me to pick it Exactly.
Speaker 1:And then again it's a condition in itself. The name escapes me, but there's a condition. It's what's called yeah, a kind of yeah I can't remember. I've got written down somewhere in a book. It's a co-morbidity. I don't like the term co-morbidity, I like to say co-occurring condition.
Speaker 3:I've started saying that. So, I haven't so co-occurring, I've started yeah, yeah, yeah, and that is yeah.
Speaker 1:And I can sometimes find that I pick my skin around my nails. They're called hangnails the skin around your nails.
Speaker 1:But yes, for me it's. I will rock. I find sort of a bit nervous. I wait at the bus stop Always. I will pace. I can't stand. I will pace walking in a circle like a caged tiger. I'm pacing and I'm walking. If I'm tired then I'll find I'm sitting down on my bed and I'm on rock and side. So and the reason why we rock is it's comforting and these repetitive behaviors are comforting, but also in your brain. Your brain likes the rocking motion, just like when you're holding a baby.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you rock them because it's soothing. So we self-soothe by rocking. So it's actually a helpful strategy. It brings it down, it helps you balance yourself. It's a bit of like proprioception. You get a sense of yourself in space around you as well. It's sort of a bit grounding as well. So I do that and I wrote it down. Actually, you'd ask me what else do I do? Yeah, pacing, yeah, and I always have little bits and bobs around me that I fiddle with.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, something to fiddle with that feels quite nice in my hand. Yeah, it's something in my hand.
Speaker 3:So interesting. You say that I met somebody the other day, a young person who is neurodiverse and autistic, and he gave me this frigid thing I've seen my kids use them, yeah yeah and I was like this is really cool. And he showed me different things to do with it. He gave it to me, which I thought was really kind, that's kind. That's really kind. Yeah, he is kind, but I thought I actually quite like it. I thought, I see my kids with them, but actually you underestimate the value of things like that, yeah.
Speaker 1:So simple and also it's finding what suits you. So I like this little squitty ball. It's got just sensory-wise. It feels so satisfying to go easy. I know lots of people who don't. And when I'm working face-to-face, I have lots of things like my face-to-face counselling work in schools, and I have lots of things that are sensory, that are calming and just satisfying, and it's a release. It's a release Things that we talked about earlier on to prevent you getting to that tsunami level. You want gentle releases throughout the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because, it all builds up. It all builds up and then sensory-wise, it's too bright or it's too cold. Even you could have the homeosasis within, so before you can meet demands externally. So it could release energy. So it was one of those things I could talk to you on the phone. I really could, I could talk, yeah there you go, yeah, yeah, jewelry and jewelry.
Speaker 2:The problem is, though, I forget to use it, and I just start picking my fingers or twirling. I hear that's another one.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that's very cool.
Speaker 2:I've been going to the osteopath a couple of times a week because I've got some kind of repetitive strain injury from this. Oh, really, anxiously twirling my hair, obviously, oh have you really Wow, cracky, you're arm down Laura.
Speaker 1:I know I have tried. It's kind of an alternative, a suitable alternative that's safe.
Speaker 3:Always finding an alternative, isn't it? You can't just remove those techniques, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Because? Yeah, because it soothes you, but it's just fine, that's healthier.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just fine. So my skin picking and I'd mostly stopped and started again. I look at that. It's easy to, yeah, it's quite cool, it is easy to and it's recognising when you do it. It's not it's thinking, okay, I'm quite tired, or that's kind of stressing me out, or now I need to just take a minute. Absolutely. It's just knowing when to slow down and calm your nervous system. Basically yeah, it is yeah. I think I've just fixed my family, though, to calm my nervous system, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:It's having a separate apartment somewhere. I've been staying there a couple of times a week. Look at a timeshare. Yeah, that's good. Did you want to ask your famous last question?
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I mean I can do we always you've probably heard it this kind of what's the most ADHD thing that you could say that you've done and when? I? I'm sure you can imagine what I mean by ADHD thing. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:Totally.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I've heard your words on the episodes as well. I mean, I do remember going to the pharmacist to pick up my prescription and they said I think you've picked it up. No, I haven't picked it up. I think records show that you have this lovely. I love them, they're so lovely. No, I don't think I have. Oh, okay, all right, here you go, here it is again. And he hands it over. Something clicked in my brain, it's like I remember that. I remember it, okay, but still the thought didn't come back to me that I had picked up the medication. Wow, it didn't come back to me, but it was just a moment there. And then when I went home and looked in the cup, and it was there in the bag, picked up, but I am not remembered at all. You haven't remembered, no no, no, no.
Speaker 3:Did that dog your memory? Did you remember once you realized?
Speaker 1:Well, once I know, but when I, when he was handing over something, clicked, but it didn't, I think it's full image. So when I got home I actually saw it. I thought I had to see it, to think, oh, I did pick it up. And then I vaguely had a vague memory of, like a week ago, right, right, isn't it. That was a bit frightening.
Speaker 3:And it can be quite, yeah, that was a bit yeah, yeah, and you lose trust in yourself don't you. Yeah, that's why you start always second, third, fourth checking yourself.
Speaker 1:And, yeah, I just studied an embarrassing one that I did not so long ago, which is on my teacher training, which was so the lunchtime before the assessment, the practical exam. Very anxious Lives mobilize, energy rising and I'm trying to do lots of things to calm myself, so I've got to come myself and breathing and still it's still dead, still there, but I'm still trying to keep it. But then just it's like half an hour before it's something just peaked within me and then I just with people around me and then I'm just like so much energy, I'm walking around and then I'm starting singing like the Rocky theme song and punching into the air like, yeah, because I'm so excited and just too much, and everyone's laughing that of course X me on to do it even more, as we do ADHD.
Speaker 1:Something just happens that I'm entertaining, it's funny, it's encouraging me. Nobody's raining me in. I need to be rained in and it's very silly, very embarrassing, but it got it all out. Yeah, and I did. I think I did a good job. But you know, whatever, I don't get so embarrassed anymore as much.
Speaker 3:If it's been amazing talking to you today thank you, I really enjoyed it as well. So calming, perfect. I can imagine you're extremely good at your job.
Speaker 1:I hope so Well, I do enjoy it, so I'm happy Thank you.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think you're very too. I might listen to this back and just yes, oh, good Mindfulness.
Speaker 3:Yes, well, I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:I really enjoyed it. Something I thought was like something, something evidence for me to, yes, recall that I was very worried but anxious, but also excited. So I feel anxiety and excitement is then part in our tummy as well, and so it's hard to differentiate, but I really really enjoyed it. I have to go remember. Yeah, Just lean into it, enjoy it and it can be fun.
Speaker 3:I think you should consider doing your own podcast about teaching. Oh, this is not admin.
Speaker 1:It's not admin. You can get some of that for you. That's true. Delegate. That's true.
Speaker 2:Delegate. But you've done, you've done really well. I would never know that this, you know, was built up to be an anxious Masking.
Speaker 1:Well, I think actually because we we had said at the beginning that it's an environment with the acceptance and you know that that makes a big difference but also, believing it, you can say you can believe it.
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely, I believed it so you're saying, that really helped.
Speaker 1:So thank you both.
Speaker 3:Glad you believed it. It's been very lovely talking to you. Same here, take care, thank you.
Speaker 1:Bye, bye, bye. Thanks, yeah, bye, bye.