Picture this - two friends, both living with ADHD, decide to launch a podcast. What follows is a beautiful chaos of shared experiences, candid conversations, and community building. Join us in this episode as we chat with Gen and Claire, co-hosts of the ADHD Mums podcast, a nurturing platform for all women navigating the ADHD journey. We delve into their experiences in the music industry, the unique use of Instagram as a memory aid, and the trials and triumphs of motherhood and friendship in an ADHD world.
Ever wondered about the realities of starting ADHD medication in the UK? We've got you covered. This episode takes you behind the scenes as we share our distinct experiences, insights, and apprehensions about ADHD medications. From long waits for diagnosis and treatment to the importance of self-advocacy, we lay it all bare. We also shed light on the hurdles faced in navigating school screening protocols and the necessity of proactive support for children with ADHD.
But it's not all serious talk. We also share the exciting journey of running our podcast and building a robust community. Our guests Gen and Claire, living with ADHD, shares their journey through school regulations, medication, and acceptance. This episode is a delightful mix of laughter, real-life experiences, and valuable insights. Get ready for an engaging exploration of the ADHD world through the eyes of the ADHD Mums and their vibrant community. Join us, and let's navigate this journey together. Come for the stories, stay for the companionship!
Outro
This is a special edition episode recorded from a webinar.
Picture this - two friends, both living with ADHD, decide to launch a podcast. What follows is a beautiful chaos of shared experiences, candid conversations, and community building. Join us in this episode as we chat with Gen and Claire, co-hosts of the ADHD Mums podcast, a nurturing platform for all women navigating the ADHD journey. We delve into their experiences in the music industry, the unique use of Instagram as a memory aid, and the trials and triumphs of motherhood and friendship in an ADHD world.
Ever wondered about the realities of starting ADHD medication in the UK? We've got you covered. This episode takes you behind the scenes as we share our distinct experiences, insights, and apprehensions about ADHD medications. From long waits for diagnosis and treatment to the importance of self-advocacy, we lay it all bare. We also shed light on the hurdles faced in navigating school screening protocols and the necessity of proactive support for children with ADHD.
But it's not all serious talk. We also share the exciting journey of running our podcast and building a robust community. Our guests Gen and Claire, living with ADHD, shares their journey through school regulations, medication, and acceptance. This episode is a delightful mix of laughter, real-life experiences, and valuable insights. Get ready for an engaging exploration of the ADHD world through the eyes of the ADHD Mums and their vibrant community. Join us, and let's navigate this journey together. Come for the stories, stay for the companionship!
Outro
This is a special edition episode recorded from a webinar.
I'm joking Jen honestly.
Speaker 2:What did she say? She said we had our Zoom tiny and I was like it's because I don't want to see myself, I'm really joking. Oh, that's weird, Hello Jen.
Speaker 1:Welcome to our podcast. It's really lovely to meet you. What are you known as? What is it? Adhd Mums. Just as old, isn't it yeah? It just sounds like a shit show to me. That's just my experience of being a mum and having ADHD?
Speaker 2:I don't know. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3:It's a shit show.
Speaker 2:Sisters in chaos is our the end. Bye, yeah, my sisters in chaos aren't we. We're best friends who live a chaotic life and try to support each other through it.
Speaker 3:Yes, and then I've added the 60 hurdles of doing a really intensive project together as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah. Which is the podcast? The podcast, okay, yeah. Yeah, it's not easy doing a podcast, is it as we thought it was going to be?
Speaker 1:So tell us the history of your podcast then. So you, so well.
Speaker 3:I'd wanted to do it for a couple of years but, being the ultimate procrastinator, I've got a dead Instagram account that I started. That was like oh, podcast coming soon, I think, at the time it's like about being a woman with ADHD and then Claire had realised she had ADHD been sent for the diagnosis, was on the waiting list and Claire had said to me like, oh you know, you should do that podcast, we should do it together, yeah.
Speaker 2:Because we had previously talked about doing a podcast together and even recorded an episode which we then accidentally deleted. That was about music.
Speaker 3:And I had never really listened to a podcast at that stage, so Claire was humouring me, while it was just basically a radio show with playing music and Claire was sort of going. Usually people talk on podcasts, you know it's not just songs and I was going well, you know we can do this, and she was like, well, we'll give it a go, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I was exploring more and more stuff about ADHD.
Speaker 3:We were sharing loads of stuff about ADHD with each other and we and then we did the ultimate procrastinate of taking about nine months to like set up and launch. Like you know, rather than just go for it, we really like over prepared. We did loads of work on our Patreon, which still doesn't exist and there's nowhere near being ready because of our time limitations, but we were like planned out our entire Patreon structure that was going to be our private community and did millions of photo shoots, which has been handy to us because we've never been able to do one since.
Speaker 4:I mean your photographs are brilliant, though, because I follow along on your Instagram and I always think it looks dead professional.
Speaker 3:Oh, thank you. Yeah, well, we did like we put time into it differently, yeah that's down to Jen.
Speaker 2:She's a really good photographer and she's a lot more social media savvy than me, especially on Instagram, because I'm not someone who really likes being on camera and stuff, and I only have a few pictures of me and my son on my Instagram. You use it as memory aid, don't you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I've been the lead singer in a band since I was 15. So I've been running that band, so I've always been in charge of the photo shoots and just aware of how much visual content you need to sort of. Any time you're making an announcement there needs to be a visual. You know just all that.
Speaker 4:What's the name of the band? I'm going to rate it a.
Speaker 3:Zombina and the Skeletons. I won't know. Zombina, zombina, skeletons.
Speaker 1:You, ladies, sound like you're not far from me. Where are you?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, you're in Cheshire, I'm in.
Speaker 3:Chester? Yeah, oh, we love Chester. We're in Liverpool, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Liverpool. I was there Saturday. Oh the big smoke. My tenure was like what does big smoke mean? You got really scared.
Speaker 3:It's big city. I said to my son.
Speaker 2:oh sorry, I'm interrupting. I was just saying I said to my son yesterday it was cracking the flags and I had to explain what that meant.
Speaker 1:I don't know, what that means.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's when it's really sunny. You say it's cracking the flags.
Speaker 1:Like flagstones, like flagstones yeah, there's so many of those saying things I really don't understand. I don't understand what cats and dogs, what yeah, what is that? Anyway.
Speaker 4:I'm writing that down as we're making notes.
Speaker 1:Are you guys have been friends. That predates the podcast. Predates diagnosis, Is that right?
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, yeah, For like years that like a nice, healthy, like chapter book of friendship, like we met through a shared project which was music. We were both involved in running this club night. Yeah, claire was a.
Speaker 2:DJ. I was a DJ.
Speaker 3:And then Claire was in several bands that like played regularly over the years.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I was in the band that was like the house band, that we were arranging it with a group of friends Co-op, really wasn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had a boyfriend at the time and he was like running club night and he managed bands and I really liked Jen's band and encouraged him to like make them the house band and be their manager and stuff. But yeah, you saw, jen just told me off because I'm rubbing my tights. I just always have to point out which are Claire's stims are going to be like really audible on the microphone, because I've got used to it.
Speaker 3:Sorry, I was rubbing my tights, that's right. What are the things?
Speaker 2:do you stim? What are your other? What are they?
Speaker 4:called body repetitive behaviours. Yeah, I pick my, I do skin picking. Oh, me too, mine is really bad at the minute, my thumbs are terrible yeah. And then I regret it. Scabs on my face at the moment because I must have been a stressy period.
Speaker 2:I sing all the time, like if someone says a phrase I find like a song and starts like it's really not, oh, I do that, yeah, and then she sings too.
Speaker 1:Say yes, forever. What about you? Um?
Speaker 2:Thank you. Did you like a little cough? Or is that my imagination? No, it's just the fact that she's observing me.
Speaker 3:I don't think I do all sorts, but yeah.
Speaker 2:You find it's good to sit still, don't you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can't sit up. I can't sit up like a good girl.
Speaker 4:Yeah, your legs are open. If I show you right now what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:I have to adjust plincy like a piece and I do the leg jig all the time.
Speaker 4:I mean, even I could be sitting in a professional meeting and I can't have two feet on the floor in a chair. I need to take my shoes off, the legs are up, and do you know what about that?
Speaker 1:I feel obviously I feel really similar to that when I look back when I used to be in meetings with people. I would get so irritated and so like, oh my God, you shut up, I just want to go. It was obviously really stressful for me to have to pretend that sitting there was okay for me and it's not an even like training sessions. You know I'd be like, oh, I'm sure research says that after 40 minutes you should just stop talking because it's all going to lose concentration. I didn't realise that I fall asleep.
Speaker 2:In training all the time.
Speaker 1:All fall asleep. Yeah, I just think, oh, we should shut up. And I start getting really irritated. I mean not so much in that word, I'm not in those situations now but I would get quite irritated.
Speaker 4:Like the unit is shut out. I shared a meme on Instagram not that long ago and it's like the physical equivalent of doing a plank. I think about this every single night when I'm my daughter Jodie has autism, and when I'm watching her do her bedtime routine of adjusting her blankets, getting this teddy and that teddy and actually can you get me this one and that one Adding another blanket, adjusting her pillows, putting her phone on child but I have to be present to just stand and watch. I'll do all these things and it feels as if my life has stopped in that time, but it's just very, very difficult to stand and watch on. I feel as if I'm looking out the window.
Speaker 4:That's what it's like. It's like that you just don't have the mental stamina to stand there and do that equivalent to somebody physically doing a plank. I remember it from school and I used to feel like those things crawling under my skin trying to like sit still in my school school chair Because they were itchy, weren't they Like you had to wear like tights or whatever, and if it's hot, then they get you in your tights with those plastic seams.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:It's horrible. So tell us a little bit more about your medication, then that's you. You've just started your medication today. What medication is it? How long have you waited for?
Speaker 2:So I got my diagnosis in the spring this year and it's been a seven month wait for titration. It was about a two or two, nearly three year wait to get to that point beforehand. So I went through right to choose psychiatry UK and I'm actually quite lucky because I know that there's a shortage of ADHD medication in the UK at the moment, on the NHS, that because they're in charge of my titration period, which lasts for 12 weeks, that, like, I've got the medication through a private provider and that's being sent to me in the post. So I do feel very, despite the years of waiting, I feel very lucky in that sense.
Speaker 4:Because it might have been that they wouldn't have, because they wouldn't have started to know people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I could have been given a prescription and there was no one to fill that prescription, so yeah, all that is good. Yeah, it's meth. And what was it? Methylphenidate.
Speaker 4:Yeah, or crystal meth, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so Ritalin isn't. It is like the brand name that people know it by, but it's not Ritalin, it's not considered. It's a brand name beginning with D. That I can't remember, and when I took the instruction leaflet out last night, it said that it wasn't for the initiation of medication in adults and all the instructions were about children. So I was a bit like freaked out by that. Yay. But I thought, hey, I'll take it anyway, and that's it.
Speaker 1:So is it one that you have to take just take like two or three a day, or is it a longer acting one?
Speaker 2:No, so it's 18 milligram and you take it. You start off taking one of them a day, then two the next week and then three the next week, so I'll be on three by the third week.
Speaker 1:But just once a day not.
Speaker 2:I think just a couple of notes.
Speaker 1:The reason I'm asking my husband because of the shortage he's been put on. He's got another like a short acting one. He has to take one in the morning, then one halfway through the day and then one later on and he can really feel it wearing off.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my friend takes that and she kind of is ready for the next one.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm not sure if you take the three all together or the three separately, because I overanalyze the like two lines of instructions on the box and they like take three once a day. So that sounds like they're all three together, doesn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 4:To me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah three I'll check in with my titree.
Speaker 1:It means I've got doubt in your mind.
Speaker 2:Sorry, no, but like anything like that, I will totally overanalyze it to death and I'll be looking at every cover and everywhere and I'm like what do they mean by this instruction? I don't know. I do struggle with like just taking an instruction on face value.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, yeah, me too.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, I'm there with you. What I'm interested to know is, because I've spoken to a few people who have reached out over social media and just in terms of my own perception as well, that before I took the medication so I mean I was well up for it, but before I actually physically put it in my mouth I felt frightened because I really wasn't sure what to expect and obviously, with the concerns around you know your blood pressure, your heart rhythm and all those types of things I thought, oh, what is this going to be like? But also and I make light of this, but I don't know if either of you watched Breaking Bad, yeah, so for some reason I thought I was going to end up brewing crystal meth in a caravan in the desert because I was started on the Lisdexamphetamine, the Elvans. So I did have a little bit of a fear about how was I going to react to this medication. Was it going to interact with my antidepressants and all the other prescription drugs that I take, Not recreational drugs?
Speaker 4:I don't take recreational drugs, nor do I advocate for them.
Speaker 2:Yes, no, I'm very impulsive and tend to lack fear in general.
Speaker 3:I was ready to say, Claire's just generally fearless and like.
Speaker 2:So I tend to just be like, yeah, I just see what happens. You know about everything in life. So, no, I wasn't fearful. I did get a leaflet about serotonin syndrome and I am on antidepressants, so I was a bit like, hmm, does that take, consider? But I was still like I'll just get to go see what happens.
Speaker 3:I was really anxious about it when I was starting them, like in the same way as you, like really focused on like I didn't really do much research into it, like which is unusual, but I was like really focused on like it seems like it must be weird for your heart to be on like speed all the time is what I was thinking, you know. Like that must be mad and like I still feel a bit strange about it. Like I want to go back on the meds, but I still feel a bit it always feels weird for me to be to take medication and Claire's like your attitude is more Well, I think you're. If you can medicate yourself for a condition, why wouldn't you? Whereas mine's always like body is a temple vibes, but just like this is unnatural.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like, if I've got a pain, get the painkillers down immediately, whereas you'd probably be more like. I'd be like oh go, and have a hot bath.
Speaker 3:I'll put a hot water bottle on my head and all that you know and just like.
Speaker 1:Jenny, you're not on medication now, but you've tried it. Have you yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm yeah. We're having a really, really weird different experience, aren't we? Yeah?
Speaker 1:That got me rubbing my knee next to the bike. Sorry is that an okay question? I don't want to?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's certainly okay. I got my diagnosis like just about 10 years ago through the NHS. I didn't have to wait very long at all. I think it was about eight months. I was on a waiting list, if that and I am. There was no like second stage wait for titration.
Speaker 3:At that point I got the medication, I think that day. I'm sure I got it that day, like you know, like let's start you off. And then I did like a bit of a prolonged titration for about nine months because I kept sort of like freaking out when they were trying to advance my dose and be sort of like well, I'm saying it works, so why do you want to then raise it? You know, I was always that odd to the psychiatrist about that. But then I came off them because I was like potentially going to start a family. So I just was like right, I can't be taking the meds. And then I've been like pregnant or breastfeeding until a few years ago. Well, actually I was still breastfeeding. But I went to the GP and said, can I get on the waiting list now?
Speaker 4:And it's interesting that you should bring that up actually, because I have spent the weekend writing my. I know I spoke to you before about doing my research in terms of ADHD and pregnancy kind of area. I came across a couple of research papers yesterday and they've been longitude known, so they've been from 2015 to 2022. And actually there's no risks been identified. We're taking medication for a day.
Speaker 3:Claire's just read that as well, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was telling Jen about that recently. Yeah it's really interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 4:And actually therefore even less of a risk, I suppose, when you're breastfeeding. Yeah, exactly, of transference, yeah, I think that's really interesting because it probably would have been most GPs or most obstetricians first line to take a woman off of our medications in pregnancy, because you don't know they've not proved that there's no risk, therefore it's really safer to come off it. But actually, now you know, hopefully the mental health of pregnant women as a result of that study being published will be better.
Speaker 3:Definitely yeah, definitely, because it was definitely a.
Speaker 2:Well, we've spoken to women recently who who were pregnant with ADHD and had been told by their GPs that the medication was like that's still the first line to tell them that if they cannot take it, don't take it. Yeah, so I didn't know that studies really hit. I mean it is an impact jet.
Speaker 3:No, but yeah, so I've. So I've gone via NHS again and been waiting for three years again now just to reaccess the clinic and like they, they do like a phone triage once a year to sort of see where you're up to mentally. I think the first year was like an amber, amber light out of their like triage and traffic light thing and by the second year was a red light and the third year a red light still and like I've had all sorts of like extra support services just that I've accessed over the last few years and wrote to them. Even in the end that was the advice I was given to write to my ADHD clinic and like check where I might be on the waiting list or what sort of timescale I'm looking at, and they just couldn't tell me at all. So yeah, there's still just waiting and waiting.
Speaker 1:So you feel like you're ready to go back on meds. Well, more than ready, I did three years ago.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like three years. That's insane, it's just. It just feels extra strange that I've, like had a diagnosis through the NHS already.
Speaker 1:So it's kind of like it seems like so many hoops to jump through.
Speaker 3:I realize it's. What am I waiting for, sort of thing. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you wouldn't. Even went back, didn't you, and said do you think it would be a good idea for me to go on to the right to choose pathway, because I've been waiting for so long? And they said you may as well stay on the NHS pathway now. You've been on it for so long.
Speaker 3:He actually said like if you go over to the right to choose through Psychiatry UK, you'll lose your place on the NHS pathway. So I went away again and like 10 months later I was advised by the NHS clinic that that wasn't true. So now I'm on both, but I've only been on the use like two months now.
Speaker 2:And in the meantime I've had the full diagnosis and titration and now on the medical.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, right, that's for sure, no weird.
Speaker 2:It's not like it's frustrating for you, isn't it? Like even though you're pleased for me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a bit like, it's a bit of a friend and I am so happy for it Like authentically overjoyed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's also like it's painful.
Speaker 3:I mean, these things come up in like close friendships, don't they Like with women. There's a lot of like milestone things that are more more obvious and everyday than this that women have to go through that, like you know like life milestones, but this is definitely one for us, yeah. Guess what are you a pill, go, laugh a day off.
Speaker 4:Are you two within the same NHS trust? Then Is it the same ADHD clinic?
Speaker 3:Well, no, because Claire's private and I'm NHS.
Speaker 2:No, well, we're in the same NHS trust, but what they did was they referred you to another NHS trust, didn't?
Speaker 3:they. Oh yeah, she did.
Speaker 2:Whereas I got referred to the private clinic.
Speaker 4:It's way older, isn't it? It's absolutely better.
Speaker 3:We've got children on the ADHD waiting list as well haven't we? Yeah, mine will be pediatric because she was under five.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yours is like going to be a teenager, isn't it? By the time?
Speaker 2:he gets bigger by the time he gets bigger.
Speaker 4:How many kids are? We talking about Automatically. I think from my perspective, if there is somebody in one family that's been diagnosed, instantly the whole family should be assessed.
Speaker 3:I think that would be good practice, wouldn't that be amazing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, gold standard, it's different for everybody on different waiting lists in different places. It seems stupid to me. Let's just check everybody.
Speaker 3:It's crazy. I've had to be a little bit like Pushing, a little bit pushing, insist that I want my daughter on both waiting lists. I'm like, well, I think, yeah, it appears that she's showing signs of autism, definitely of autism. But actually I don't want to completely ignore and set aside ADHD too, because a lot of her behaviours are in line with that. And now that I understand how common a joint diagnosis is, I'm just being cynical about it and I'm like get her on the waiting list because it's going to take long enough. It's not my concern whether or not you would rather assess for one and then start her on a waiting list for another. If you think she's got both, let's get it started.
Speaker 4:So I'm going to voice an experience that I've had recently through CAMHS and there was a suggestion maybe a year and a half ago with a psychiatrist that my daughter sees. She's I mean, she's autistic. When we first moved to Guernsey she was only five, six years old. She had epilepsy. Her seizures were not well controlled, so we were dealing with all those kind of you know, physical medical conditions first. She was then moved out of mainstream school into a special educational needs school and at that point I was under the impression that the educational psychologist in the school had put her in the waiting list for an assessment for autism. Five years later I rang up to say can you just let me know whereabouts on the waiting list she is? How much longer are we looking at, because we've been on it for five years To be told that we were never actually putting the waiting list in the first place. We then saw a private diagnosis through a private psychiatrist who verbally told us that she was autistic but never, ever followed up with a written report.
Speaker 4:Now three years it'll be three years in February since that has been done and we've never had any paperwork. So I am in, or that my daughter is in is that she's 14, turning 15. And she's about to hit the transition for adult disability services. Because that starts at this point and it stays there for two, two and a half years so that they can obviously get used to a different service, a different way of working, whatever. They can't accept the referral into the adult disability service until we have proof of a written diagnosis of autism.
Speaker 4:So our social worker and the school etc.
Speaker 4:Have been kind of trying to rally around to say, right, oh, she needs to be put back on the waiting list to be reassessed for autism.
Speaker 4:However, we can see very clearly that she's autistic, so let's try and just push her up, because we need this report quite imminently. In the meantime, this psychiatrist at CAMHS has suggested to me that we get her assessed for ADHD because in his opinion she has ADHD. So that was good enough for me. I just thought, well, for me she does have ADHD and autism, and the more that I learn about it, obviously from my own perspective I can quite clearly see that yeah. Then the psychiatrist changed because that one left and this new one come in and I had to send in all of her report cards from school, bearing in mind that she's now in a school that meets her needs in terms of you know, she's not struggling because the work is done at her level, which is great, but on one hand, it's great on one hand, but on the other hand, school reports will say she's going to school, so there's nothing in the report cards.
Speaker 4:According to the psychiatrist, that smacks him in the face of her having ADHD. So I then challenged him in this appointment, and this is only because I'm armed with the knowledge that I have about the presentation of ADHD and that actually, you know, people who don't have the same knowledge might not be as well equipped to. They might just take it face value what the doctor says Absolutely the medical system, don't they?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I said to him. So if I tell you that 38 years ago, if you read my school report cards, it wouldn't smack you in the face that I had ADHD either, because I was able to mask it. The difference to me is that I was in a mainstream school and she's in a special needs school, so her needs are getting met there, for she's not struggling as much. She's not lacking the stimulation because it's all there. They're doing this. You know, prophylactically, if you like, so ahead of the game, and we know that your referral criteria is set up for Caucasian male children. She's female, she's able to mask, she masks her autism very well at the school, just to be socially accepted by the rest of her peers. So just based on that, I disagree that you're not going to assess her officially for it. To which he said would you mind me asking what is your life being the fact that you've not had a diagnosis until much later?
Speaker 4:Obviously, I gave him the truth and said that I didn't want the same to happen for her, and I then said to him now, this is the kind of the point that I was getting at was that I said it wasn't me who initiated this assessment in the first place, it was Dr Barry Chippchase, who was a psychiatrist that we saw beforehand. He suggested he has ADHD and he said oh, that changes things, doesn't it? If it's coming from a professional, and I said so, are you telling me that a professional opinion is far more valid than the lived experience of the parents? Because I would disagree. It just made me so angry because not for us, because I mean we will get it resolved. However, it made me angry for all the people who have gone before us and all the people who will come after that don't have the same, you know, in-depth knowledge or confidence to challenge that. Who'll just accept what he says and go. Oh well, he says she doesn't think that she's got it because it doesn't show in the report Surely part of the screening.
Speaker 1:I know it's a bit different because you know it's kind of via school as well, but the big part of the screening has to be the parents.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that should tell you the most.
Speaker 1:History. It's collateral history, but it actually. Yeah, and when I ask, when I see people in my clinic, for example, and I think, okay, they need a screening, it's the parents who do the screening. It's how they perceive how their children are. So it just surprises me that that wasn't kind of part of the process for you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I really feel for people who have children that are who have needs that are quite high at home but that are really high-masking at school, because part of my advantage, I think, with being able to push for diagnostic support sooner rather than later. I have been very vocal about my own late diagnosis experience. Yeah, and being undiagnosed throughout all my years in education was a massive impact on my everything my self-esteem, you know, and my potential, I think, and like how much I obviously don't want to allow that to happen with either of my children. But also I'm quite vocal about that I am not quite coping with her needs. You know, I've been like that with the school, like I am not quite okay, this is really extremely hard.
Speaker 3:And, like you know, I suppose it started with things like late-nesses or like as she started to just really take the piss of what she would wear to school. You know it was like, and as they started to make like kind comments of like you know, as long as you get her in, and I kind of made that more formal sooner rather than later and was like, okay, you know what our biggest morning issues are to do with clothes. So you know, yeah, how much can we? So they made it formal that she could have a very altered version of the uniform and you know, the sooner I stopped worrying about that, the better.
Speaker 4:And I think it's been. I'm sure you probably have in the morning.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just been so helpful for me in a sense that some aspects of her needs are really obvious to anyone looking, because she kind of looks different, you know, to the other kids going in in the uniform and the white socks and nice hairstyles and that.
Speaker 1:It's interesting though, isn't it? Because I think that's our experience mostly is, you know, like she you were. You know it was obviously really stressful trying to get her into a uniform like a regular uniform, and she wants to wear something different. But actually, if you just like zoom out from that and get some perspective, it's not really important to the world as a whole what she's, but the stress it kind of causes you and it's constant, isn't it? It's constant trying to fit into social norms and these, these parts of our society that are considered the right way to do things. Yeah, that those of us who do have ADHD have more difficulty with that. Yeah, but maybe I'm going a bit too deep for this. But who is it to say that the way things are now is the right way and that we should?
Speaker 3:I'm saying like my complaints about school uniform and stuff run deep. I'm like going as far now with my fury about the fact that they have to wear white. Yeah, that I'm saying it's so environmentally unsaned, like I didn't use to buy stain remover till I had a kid in school wearing white shirts. I am pouring so much chemical shite into the water because I'm having to get white.
Speaker 1:It's all about conforming, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I'm really she'll never have to wear a tie in this school. They just don't wear a school tie. But ties, why the fuck are we sending children to school? Most businessmen don't wear a tie. Now, well, my sense of the school, with a noose around the neck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now my son has to wear a tie and we've always kind of got rounded by letting him have the top button undone under the tie. But in his new school, the insist the top button is done and he feels like he's choking all the time. I don't understand this what do you?
Speaker 3:mean, well, have you checked it? Yeah, oh, no.
Speaker 2:I've emailed them and they haven't been back to me. But, yeah, I need to chase it up and then that's it. When you're a neurodivergent parent of a neurodivergent child, there's so much admin involved in taking care of their needs and then I feel all the guilt that, like I haven't chased that up yet Because I've just taught him a way of hiding how to do his spot, which is fair play, because that's how I would approach with it at school because me and him are big maskers and he masks at school, which is my trouble with him getting a diagnosis because, like he is perfect at school.
Speaker 3:He's a good boy and he's clever.
Speaker 2:But then he comes home and he lets all that tension out.
Speaker 1:It's a violent part. I think it's really important to say to teachers or whoever if they're not aware of it, I'm sure they do know it but having a high IQ is a massive barrier to diagnosis, male or female, isn't it? And you can't underestimate how much, because I bet he internalizes then and then you're getting things like acute anxiety and low self-esteem and all of those things that if left untreated as most of us know, who are late diagnosed it can be really horrendous, can't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's exactly what happens to me.
Speaker 1:What is the need for the time? You think about the time. If you break that down, actually, you probably, if you took it a few steps back. Why why? Why? Why? Oh, because you're supposed to wear a tie if you want to look formal and smart. Well, that's like it's not the world anymore.
Speaker 3:It's not children's place to look formal. No.
Speaker 2:I think, like in his school, like at some point they've wanted them to look like little gentlemen, but you know, it's not the thing anymore, is it? It's not necessary.
Speaker 4:And you know it's a social construct as part of the patriarchy to me as a particular form.
Speaker 2:It really is Churn us out into that capitalist system.
Speaker 3:Churn us out into suits, into a conformity. And they're not. They're not the most comfortable, are they? We all perform our best, we all like concentrate best, study best, everything, if we're comfortable, surely?
Speaker 1:like Exactly Rip that tie off.
Speaker 3:Yes, let's start our own new campaign about dumping ties in school. I'll have to. I'll have to.
Speaker 2:I'll have to just wait until I score, will I?
Speaker 4:Autonomy not to do your piece, but at least we're on the tie.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 4:It was a dictator.
Speaker 2:He was a dictator and he literally screamed at him in the corridor in front of everyone because he didn't have his tie on one day and he was absolutely trauma-sick.
Speaker 3:He won't have shown in school.
Speaker 2:But he's come home and cried about it. You know A lesson.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because he takes everything hard. Not okay to this.
Speaker 2:Because he wants to be really good yeah.
Speaker 1:He will, he will. Won't he, he will and he'll. It's. It's devastating because you remember. I certainly remember times when I was shamed, even as an adult, but as a kid they just can in such a horrible way shape who you become.
Speaker 2:Yeah, can't it yeah.
Speaker 1:And it just is devastating and people who were kind of controlling the society environments have got a real responsibility and oh, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there needs to be huge reform, doesn't there, really? In the schools with the special educational needs, but then also for children who haven't got special educational needs.
Speaker 4:Just different. Why not just be? Why not just?
Speaker 2:be. Why not just everyone? Why not no kidneys to be wearing a tie, do they?
Speaker 1:I was speaking to somebody the other day who who was talking about that the school had bought in some extra measures for to accommodate their kind of neurodivergent population in schools. So you know, like quiet areas, there's like nice bean bags, a sensory room, lots of strategies like that, Like she said. But it benefits everybody. It's not just the kids who have got autism or ADHD or any of those. Everybody needs that and it's just that a small part of the population can't tolerate that song. But you know what I'm saying? Yeah, Everybody needs that, but actually everybody needs it, Everybody needs that quiet.
Speaker 1:Everybody needs to be able to have control of when they go to the bathroom, or you know, I know, within reason, I know it must be in nightmare in schools, you know, and I was such a lot of shit.
Speaker 2:Me too, and who you know who wants to be a teacher. But that's where the reform is needed with, like more teachers, more resources, more different ways of learning, keeping the kids engaged and not just this sort of fractious, stressed out trapped animals in cages and I think that's what the problem comes in, isn't it Like children who misbehave because we're trying to make them conform and work.
Speaker 4:It's like a pressure cooker.
Speaker 1:I do just want to just another side of the point is my daughter's school. We've had a really positive experience. So we she has been diagnosed, but wasn't she wasn't behaving hyperactive in school, you know everything. She was always good and all the rest of it. But you know, like, like most of us, we kind of learn as we're learning more about ourselves and see patterns in our kids, and that you know they were really open for me to say. You know, females present very differently typically and blah, blah, blah, blah, and they've really embraced, not just with her, you know, there's lots of other kids and the whole class, I think, where it's really about changing the way we're teaching, not like, say, not not making kids sit for long periods, like they'll send her out the class to do stuff, like, can you go and take this note to this teacher, you can go and do this, you know, knowing that it's meaningful sometimes to sit there.
Speaker 1:So I'm really yeah, and she has, like you know, like the is it Senko teacher? Am I saying that? Yeah, and she'll spend time with her every week and they're like, they're going through her strengths. So what your superpowers if you've got ADHD? So what's your superpower? Blah, blah, blah. Just that strengths based approach. You know so. But yeah, that's the little way to go, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Cause I think self-esteem is such, it's so battered in children with ADHD, especially when they haven't been diagnosed and their expectations that are put on them are too high. And just to have that encouragement of like saying these are the positive things, these superpowers or whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and seeing as they're spending so much of their day, like most of their week, in that space with those, like with those adults of their caregivers, really like you want to trust?
Speaker 4:your school, don't you?
Speaker 3:And also it's another massive challenge for us, isn't it, as neurodivergent parents, as to not, is the fact that we've got a shorter fuse, a busier mind like we, it's so easy to get overstimulated. For me, it's so easy to get overstimulated by my kids, Like they're my real trigger, you know, in my day-to-day life. They're sort of intense volume or both talking to me at once or just kind of I'm such an emotional sponge, you know, and my eldest is so big emotions and big outbursts and it takes up the whole room and for me I'm just instantly feeling the same as her and so, like, much as you would not want to do it, you're aware that you're part of their negative experiences, of their own behavior and of themselves, because you don't respond to it, and you know, you remember what it was like as a kid.
Speaker 3:You're putting all the pressure on yourself to not shame them or tell them off for things that you know they can't help. But it's the challenge, isn't it? So you at very least want, like their grownups at school, to be adding to that as little as possible, just as you try to, you know.
Speaker 2:You want them to keep their shit together, don't you? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:They're getting paid to do it. Not enough, but they all get paid.
Speaker 1:Hopefully.
Speaker 4:So tell us what's next for you, then. In terms of the podcast, how many episodes have you released?
Speaker 3:We're onto episode 11 last week and episode 12 is going to be released this week, featuring Laura Spence. Good for you?
Speaker 2:Yes, that's a good thing, amazing yes.
Speaker 4:What have you learned about interviewing other people and like what has been your kind of favorite stuff to talk about?
Speaker 3:We've loved interviewing people, absolutely loved it, haven't we? And just everyone we've met has felt like oh my God, a new sister, yes, amazing, oh, she was amazing. We just like talk for ages after.
Speaker 2:We always come away feeling like really invigorated by meeting other people that are like the same as us and feeling less alien and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can relate to that yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:We've learned just how much is involved with doing a podcast, with social shocks. Really. We had this. Like we've gone on real different kind of like fits and starts of like one of us carrying the other one along like over our shoulder Come on, girl, it's all right, you just take a rest and I'll do this, but we've really like both had a few turns of that, haven't we? And like Claire had had this like definite right. I feel strongly about this. I want us to record several months worth before we even launch, because then we're not going to be like ugh down to the wire. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And we did and I was kind of thinking I don't need to. All right, then fine. Yeah, fine, if you think so, thank God, because now we have consistently been down to the wire, regardless of having initially had those months in the bag.
Speaker 2:And now we're going to be back down to the wire army, because we came to launch it as the summer holiday started and you were like traveling around and I was doing stuff and so there was no way we could have actually got together and made a podcast show at that time. But we were like at the point where we were like if we don't do it now, it's probably never going to happen, because I was off sick from work when we started. It's had a lot more time, but now I'm back in work.
Speaker 3:So now Claire's back in work full time. I've just got a new job alongside my other part time job, so we're sort of like yeah.
Speaker 2:Time constraints.
Speaker 4:Next month Episodes don't exist yet, and it's next month, next week, so how do you find that it's next month, next week, because it's been like I mean blink, and you've just missed the whole of October. Really, oh, totally. How do we do it, louise?
Speaker 1:We're really organised Plan everything Weeks in a drow.
Speaker 4:Oh, of course.
Speaker 1:We just wing it. I think we just wing it.
Speaker 4:This episode will be released later on today.
Speaker 3:Wow, amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:I'm being sarcastic. We're not organised or we don't plan, yeah, ok.
Speaker 2:Wasn't sure at first, but then I was like no, you're definitely not you know, we are.
Speaker 1:I think we had one scheduled for last week Just for Laura and I and neither of us turned up to it, so that's probably I mean, we never need to contact each other.
Speaker 4:We'll just let both of us really forgot, or never?
Speaker 1:Yeah, things run over. Single life does get in the way and you do have that sense of I certainly do of when you start a new project, the enthusiasm you have and it definitely wanes and then comes back and wanes. That's my experience. I do find, now that I know I have ADHD and public is on Medicaid as well, that I can still continue doing things. It's that perseverance, yeah. But, like you said, life does get in the way.
Speaker 1:And, laura, you've you started working. You've got about nine jobs, I think, haven't you? And I've actually got four my out for. Can I just for? And I think, the same Laura, you were off, weren't you? When we first started, and I'd been off, although it started in private practice. And then I'm getting busier, laura's getting busier. So I think probably now's the time for us to be a bit more organized, because it is an absolute delight, isn't it? It's a delight to meet like minded people and just go oh yeah, well there's. I find it so kind of empowering. I know that sounds a bit cheesy, no, it's really. I think.
Speaker 3:For us, late diagnosed and women, it's like for your voice to be heard as well, isn't it? And to know that you're giving like a platform to other voices.
Speaker 4:Absolutely and in everyday voices. You know voices not. I get sometimes a little bit of podcast envy with ADHD and more yourself having people like Ned Hallowell on the podcast, but also he has a massive platform. He you know he has his own avenues, but who gives avenues to people like us? We do. I think it's really important just to hear each other's voices and give each other that opportunity to just talk realistically and embrace who we are.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think the most, I think the most fulfilling bit for me has been and I've been surprised Like I've received quite a lot of messages from like personal contacts not necessarily close friends, some are like pals, some are just people I'm connected to in some way that have said that they're listening and loving it. You know, and I'm really like listening to every episode and I've kind of been like well, because you know some of them, having got kids, don't want kids. You know there's one who isn't a woman. You know it's like there's different people listening and enjoying it because they're finding things to relate to. Even though our main sort of focuses are shared thing in common of being mums with ADHD. I think hearing like that people are sort of hooked is like amazed me really.
Speaker 2:I'm so chuffed about that, yeah, and just strangers getting in touch as well. And because that's what we wanted to get. Get doing it for wasn't?
Speaker 4:it was just like removing the stigma, normalising, sharing voices of people like us, meeting people how cool would it be, though, if we could have just like a big social conference, like just hire a big conference hall and just all meet and just talk. That would be amazing.
Speaker 3:Well, I was just about to say the thing I really like, can't wait to do next is the community aspect that we planned. There was loads of like elements to that and because we've got a history of running events together club nights mainly I think we would you can organise a real fun thing happen next year, hopefully.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we want to do some get-togethers, don't?
Speaker 4:we.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:That would be cool. Oh, thank you so much for chatting to us today.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you for having us.
Speaker 4:It's just really nice to meet like-minded folks. Yeah so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, we've got a kettle there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I will definitely be catching up on those episodes. I've got lots of driving the next few days, so I'm going to plug you in.
Speaker 3:Oh, fabulous, perfect. Get ready for some scouts cackling in the pool. Yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:I just don't know what to do about my cackling. Laugh it just like when you see other Sam waves. It just goes whew.
Speaker 4:That's good. Hello boys, this is normally the swear police. He normally just pops up on every episode and says Mum, please swear.
Speaker 3:Hello, what are you doing with swear?
Speaker 4:do you? Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Love it.
Speaker 2:Oh, they're cute.
Speaker 4:Right, we'll let you go, but thank you very much for chatting to us. It was lovely. Oh, thank you for having us. Yeah, and everything goes okay on your medication, but be sure to keep in touch and we'll hear how you're getting on.
Speaker 2:And lovely to meet you, Louise.
Speaker 1:And you as well. It's really nice talk with you.
Speaker 2:We hope to speak to you again.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely have a good day, ladies. Bye, bye, you can touch.
Speaker 2:Bye.