39 : Move From Chaos to Clarity in Restaurant Hiring: Inside Poached Jobs with Kirk Thornby and Jack Hott

Are you scheduling interviews or hiring new employees only to be ghosted?

Today, we are going to introduce you to a tool that will save you time and energy when it comes to hiring and help you not only staff your restaurant sustainably but build also teach you how to bench of talent.

Join me as I chat with Kirk Thornby, CEO and founder of Poached Jobs, and Jack Hott, Director of Product Management, to uncover how they're revolutionizing the way restaurants fill shifts on demand. Kirk shares his inspiring journey from marketing veteran to innovator in the job platform space, while Jack brings a wealth of knowledge from his background as a certified sommelier and beverage manager.

Chapters:

0:08 - Innovative Hiring Solutions for Restaurants

12:36 - Hospitality Job Platforms and Shifts

26:44 - Managing Chaos in the Hospitality Industry

32:07 - Embracing Chaos in Restaurant Staffing

40:04- Challenges and Solutions in Restaurant Staffing

Discover the specific roles Poached Jobs caters to, including chefs, bartenders, food truck operators, and even distribution personnel. We dive deep into the 'Shifts' feature, which has transformed gig work for 1099 hospitality workers, allowing them to find additional shifts effortlessly while helping employers fill urgent vacancies. We also cover the evolving job market and how Poached Jobs adapts to these changes, plus the insurance aspects tied to these diverse roles.

We then tackle the inherent chaos of the restaurant industry and discuss how Poached Jobs provides solutions to manage it effectively. From building a talent roster to adopting proactive hiring practices, we explore innovative strategies to reduce turnover and enhance team cohesion. Kirk and I also address the increasing trend of job candidate ghosting and the rise of video interviews and paid stages. This episode is brimming with essential insights for any restaurant owner aiming to streamline their hiring process and build a reliable team for the future.

More Resources:
Kirk Thornby
Jack Hott
Poached Jobs
Gen Z are treating employers like bad dates: 93% ghost interviews and 87% have not even shown up for their first day of work

More from Christin:

Curious about one-on-one coaching or leadership workshops? Click this link to schedule a 15 minute strategy session.

Transcript

Christin Marvin: 0:08

Are you scheduling interviews or hiring new employees for your restaurant only to be ghosted? If so, we've got a solution for you. Today, I'm going to introduce you to a tool that will save you time and energy and help you not only staff your restaurant, but also build a bench of future talent. Today, I'm talking to Kirk and Jack from Poached Jobs. Kirk Thornby, a global marketing veteran and serial entrepreneur, recognized that the hospitality industry needed a better way to connect over meaningful employment opportunities. As CEO and founder of Poach Jobs, Kirk set out to support the industry with a dynamic platform that addresses its specific hiring needs and elevates hospitality as a profession. Kirk truly is a champion for celebrating the industry. Jack Hott, a certified sommelier and former beverage manager, has first-hand experience of the ongoing labor challenges within the hospitality industry. As Director of Product Management at Poach Jobs, Jack aims to understand the needs of both sides of the hospitality hiring equation and understand how technology can simplify the process. In this episode, Jack, Kirk and I will discuss three main topics First, how you can use shifts to fill on-demand position in minutes for your restaurant. Second, how to be proactive versus reactive in your approach to hiring. And third, how to build an on-call roster turned bench players using poached shifts.

Christin Marvin: 1:47

Welcome to the no Hesitations podcast, the show where restaurant leaders learn tools, tactics and habits from the world's greatest operators. I am your host, Kristen Marvin, with Solutions by Kristen. I've spent the last two decades in the restaurant industry and now partner with restaurant owners to develop their leaders and scale their businesses without wasting time and energy, so they can achieve work-life balance and make more money. Hi, Kirk and Jack, Thanks so much for being here today. How are you?

Kirk Thornby: 2:23

We're doing well, Kristen. Thank you for having us.

Christin Marvin: 2:26

Absolutely. I can't wait to share this awesome resource with our listeners today that really helps restaurants fill shifts on demand. We had had a conversation you know I did a demo with you guys recently. I know we had a conversation a few weeks ago about this and just the passion and excitement around what you're doing from all sides is just really inspiring and you're really helping restaurants with a crucial pain point right now. So super excited to bring this to the listeners today and talk about the benefits and talk about how it can help them in the moment, but then also help them down the road too.

Christin Marvin: 3:01

And I love this product of shifts that we're going to talk about today because I think it's super innovative and it's really helping restaurants think differently about their hiring practices and it's giving them a very simple platform to create a bench of talent, which every restaurant really, really needs. So I'd love to start a little bit with your backgrounds and how Poach kind of came to be, and then we'll jump into kind of the nuts and bolts of what Shifts is. But, kirk, let's start with you. Will you talk a little bit about how your background as a serial entrepreneur led you to recognize that the hospitality industry needed a better way to connect over meaningful employment opportunities. Sure.

Kirk Thornby: 3:49

I go back to the 1980s where I worked in marketing and packaging food, and so I've worked around food stylists and chefs and the industry since going way back to the 80s. I'm a marketer by trade and someone that's just created brands over the years, and Poach was created in 2012. It kind of came about. I have some good friends that are restauranteurs here in town and realizing that they were hiring an executive chef on Craigslist and they had 75 resumes to go through and they couldn't open up most of the resumes coming in from Craigslist. And we got to talking and it's like that is where the industry was hiring in 2012 and 13.

Kirk Thornby: 4:39

Everything from a food and beverage director to a SOM, to a dishwasher and basically on the worst technology on the web at the time, and we thought that there ought to be a better way and we put together something very simple that allowed you to consume people's resumes instead of opening those documents.

Kirk Thornby: 5:02

We were taking pictures of it and so people could view those documents and go much like they're going through their photographs on their computer, and so just an easy workflow for them to actually see the content and make better hiring decisions. You know, one of the issues was that you know they couldn't open up most of the resumes they got in and they got bored after the first 10 and didn't have time because they were off to the next crisis. And so we just saw a real opportunity and we bootlegged a little prototype and kind of rolled it out one day at the Mississippi Street Fair and it has taken off ever since. And so we opened up Portland and then we opened up Seattle, and then we opened up Seattle and then we opened up Austin, texas and then Denver, and slowly we've been kind of spreading out across the country.

Kirk Thornby: 5:53

Poached is you know, traditionally started as just full-time and part-time hiring, and then we've added our ships product, which we're talking about today, in the last few years, really just out of a response to the demand that the industry's had. There's so many people that are underemployed in hospitality and this really kind of gives them an opportunity to stitch together a better schedule that fits their lives and hopefully stitches together a better income for everyone.

Christin Marvin: 6:19

Yeah, I mean I love obviously you've got contacts in the industry right and are familiar with the pain points. But from the marketing standpoint too, I love that you really identified that Craigslist was really the only tool out there and we used Craigslist for years when I was in the industry because it was primarily the main dominator in where you would post ads and it was also really cheap, right. But with that right you get what you pay for. We all know that. Yeah, I remember sorting through plumbers and you know construction workers and all kinds of positions for something like an executive chef or general manager that you're. You know, like you're saying, and it was really just seemed like people were on there just applying for every single job that was available and that fatigue is really really real. And I love that you've created something that's really simple and easy and targeted to exactly what restaurant owners and operators need. That's awesome.

Kirk Thornby: 7:15

Yeah, so the idea of these general websites for hiring, including things like Indeed you've got people that have just put down a hammer and decided they're going to be a bartender and so they're applying to bartending positions. You know, by the fact that we are solely focused on hospitality, you know we draw a little bit different audience than just sort of the general job seeking audience. And you know, I also I think this is something that A I love entrepreneurs, people that go out there and hang their shingle and take a stab at creating their own thing. So these brave restaurateurs that open their doors and take those risks and then also just so celebrating that and then also celebrating the industry in and of itself. You know it's over a fifth of our GNP, it is a giant chunk of our economy and people enjoy it every single day. You know breakfast, lunch, dinner, midnight, pizzas, all of it. And you know.

Kirk Thornby: 8:18

I just think the industry deserved a home rather than just sort of being relegated out. So sorry, I'm getting off track here.

Christin Marvin: 8:25

No, it's all good. I know celebrating the industry comes up for you a lot and I love that we can. We should have. We should record another episode about that, because that's a whole nother beautiful topic. Right, you had mentioned bartenders and this is a perfect segue for Jack. So, jack, you're a certified sommelier, bar manager, you've had firsthand experiences in the industry. Right, you know the labor challenges. Uh, you know how real they are. What was it about poached that really excited you and made you want to get involved yeah, so I was an early user of poached up.

Jack Hott: 8:58

I didn't know kirk at that time, but I was working for a restaurant. I was a you know, doing a lot of front of hand, front of house management and we were constantly hiring both front of house and back of house and so we were in that Craigslist pool and that's generally what we were pulling from, other than our own personal networks. And one of the founders, a guy named Pete, came by the restaurant one day and handed us some business cards and told us about Poached, and so me and my owner at the time, uh, you know, posted a few jobs and got involved and I was immediately saw the value of it. You know a lot of the kirk really covered a lot of it already. But you know something that was exclusively for the restaurant industry, so that you could it almost self-selected is that since people knew that's where to go, you knew to go there to find them, almost like an old school, like union hall, or if you needed carpenters, you go to that place and there's, there's your carpenters. Uh, and then also just the interface again covered a lot of this.

Jack Hott: 9:56

But you know, just not having to go through your emails and having everything kind of in a single platform for you really just eased the way for hiring. And it was compelling enough that I was in that place in my career where I was either going to go start my own restaurant or do something else, and I figured that a lot of my colleagues were starting restaurants that were going to be better than anything I was going to pull off. I like the indoors, so let's go work for a website. So I started hassling Kirk until he relented and hired me and it's really, you know, kind of around celebrating the industry. It's the way that I can still contribute to the restaurant industry, you know, bringing my talents to bear in a way that's relevant.

Christin Marvin: 10:40

Yeah, absolutely. Do you regret not opening a restaurant?

Jack Hott: 10:45

No, relevant. Yeah, absolutely. Do you regret not opening a restaurant? No, I'm still really good friends with a number of restaurant owners. I miss the environment. You know like there's that sense of teamwork and then everything is so in front of you in terms of your jobs. You know like you know if you've had a good day. You know if you've had a bad day. You know if the food is good. You know you get that a good day. You know if you've had a bad day, you know if the food is good, you get that instant satisfaction. But a lot of restaurant owners still hang out with my former employer and it's a lot of work. It's like every day there's something happening, something needing paid for somebody calling in or calling off. It's been a rough few years since the pandemic Financially, socially, politically. It seems like restaurants have become kind of a. They're the center of everything. That seems to have gotten fragile over the last few years.

Christin Marvin: 11:39

Yeah 100%.

Jack Hott: 11:40

I don't regret not being in a restaurant in order, but sometimes I do miss it, if that makes any sense.

Christin Marvin: 11:47

Yeah, kirk, I'm just giving you some information, just making sure he's happy where he's at. No, I love.

Kirk Thornby: 11:55

Jack was one of those people that I hired him on the spot You're a who Right. Oh, get over here.

Christin Marvin: 12:01

Yeah, 100%, and one of my best buyers yeah, I over here yeah, 100%.

Kirk Thornby: 12:05

And one of my best buyers.

Christin Marvin: 12:06

Yeah, I love it, so it's yeah, I mean, I love what you said about being able to support the industry. You know, in a different capacity, and I'm doing the same thing. I do miss my team, I do miss the energy of working the floor and that buzz and that high right, but it's what we're doing is so, so impactful and so needed. Like you said, the restaurant industry really took a hit during the pandemic and a lot of segments have bounced back, but the full service restaurant segment is still really really hurting. So let's talk a little bit more about Poached. You know, obviously it's hospitality specific. Will you mention, though, the categories that are able that you can post jobs to, because you've got some? You've got the traditionals, but then you've also got some really fun and interesting ones that I saw during the demo. Would you talk about those?

Jack Hott: 12:57

was that for me, sure, either. Well, we, we categories are an interesting, uh kind of from a brand or marketing perspective. It's an interesting problem and it's an interesting asset in the sense of, like, this tells your audience when they visit the site you know what is the appropriate job to put there. But then it also can kind of limit us a little bit. And it's being such a dynamic industry. You know a lot of things happen inside of a restaurant's walls industry. You know a lot of things happen inside of a restaurant's walls and we're pretty much willing to, you know, list any kind of job that's going to happen inside of that restaurant. So, like you said, those traditional things you know chefs, cooks, wine cook, prep cook, dishwasher, front of house server, bartender, a lot of catering things go on.

Jack Hott: 13:41

We've added a distributor category which is kind of like, extends a little bit outside the walls but really involves the vendors for restaurants. Like you know, people who sell wine and people who you know every day, when I was, you know, doing management jobs, I'm writing 50 checks a day to different vendors, and so all those delivery personnel, those warehouse personnel, those packers, all of those people are involved in the industry as well, and a lot of them come from restaurants before they go to distribution and then you get into catering and catering has a whole kind of universe to it but a lot of that is, you know, mirrors, things that are happening inside of a restaurant wall. So it's definitely a little bit like. You know, is a job a restaurant job? Like we know, if we see it, categories are helpful for the brand. But sometimes you know, we see a job come on the board and we go, oh, is that in? And then we think about it for a minute yeah, that's in. You know food truck operator. Yeah, of course that's a restaurant.

Kirk Thornby: 14:47

But their primary purpose is really, when you come to the site and you know you're in between shifts or you know taking a smoke break, you can see all of the front of house jobs all in one row. You're not scrolling through. You know a wide variety of jobs.

Kirk Thornby: 14:57

You can see all the jobs that you're looking for so it was really to make it easy for people to find kind of the kinds of jobs they want. And you know, once you start an icon system and categories, you know people start hollering at you to just keep growing them and it becomes kind of out of hand. You know I've had bouncers. Really be mad at me because we didn't have a bouncers category and so you know, Makes sense.

Jack Hott: 15:24

I love it. I told the bouncers that they're management.

Christin Marvin: 15:27

Totally right In a lot of the ways they are. I love the destination category. I had a client who had a mountain business in Colorado and was just really struggling to find all levels of employment, and I love the destination. I also love that you can post that job nationally. If people are wanting to come to a ski resort to work just a season and make some really really killer money, right. So that's a really cool category too let's talk a little bit about and whoever wants to answer please jump in but let's talk a little bit about what shifts specifically is, and then we'll go into the nuts and bolts of how it works.

Kirk Thornby: 16:04

So Shifts is basically, you know, a gig platform. The workers are 1099. We started with W2 and it was overwhelming that both workers and employers were looking for 1099. You know, politically that's going to be on the rocks over the next couple of years until it really gets sorted out, but so it was really almost demand. You know the historically people in hospitality are employed about 28 hours per week on average and you know, going through COVID and also the increases in labor costs and things like that, people are now employed like 24 hours a week and so they're constantly looking for more shifts to be able to put together that income. And it's been really overwhelming the demand on the worker side for more opportunities to find shifts, to find other ways to get the attention of an employer Like I just want to work for that guy, how do I get in that door? And so it was really kind of built around that.

Kirk Thornby: 17:15

You know we always sort of were not 100% sure that you know fine dining would want you know a new server every night, and they don't. But when their dishwasher is sick or a cook is on vacation, you know a new server every night and they don't. But when their dishwasher is sick or a cook is on vacation. You know, I see it fitting into lots more of the industry, way beyond just caterers and events and things like that, which is where traditional staffing has filled the bill.

Kirk Thornby: 17:44

You know, if you're a caterer and you need 30 waiters for a giant wedding, you know you don't have all those people on your payroll. You pull in temps, you pull in friends and so this is. You know it was originally built for that, but I'm finding it interesting that you know, when a dishwasher calls out on a Friday night, you know we can fill those, fill those spots within minutes because people are hungry for those shifts and a dishwasher, you know is, you know it's back at house, it's. You operate a dishwasher. You know it's a pretty plug and play position and and it's a good opportunity for those people to also to kind of find their way into good restaurants and full-time employment.

Christin Marvin: 18:24

Yeah, and Kirk correct me if I'm wrong, but you said the position was a 1099, but then there isn't there also an insurance aspect to what you guys do? How does that work it?

Kirk Thornby: 18:34

is free for the workers. They get paid the the the hour that the restaurateur offers or cater um, uh, the the hours that they work times, the rate that's posted in the ship posting. We charge the restaurant with $39 fee. So we're on top of that we don't take anything from the worker and then the worker also receives the equivalent of workers' compensation insurance from us for the time during that shift. We also cover the liability of the building, the other employees and the patrons in that restaurant with our liability insurance. So it is. You know, in the past you know the sort of the down and dirty was unpaid stash. You're in the back. You know somebody cuts their finger off. You run and managers running that guy in the hospital to get it sold back on. And this is a way where there's an insurance benefit that covers those kind of unfortunate instances and you know God forbid anything happens. You know larger liability is in place as well.

Christin Marvin: 19:38

Absolutely. Hey there, listeners. Before we dive back into today's episode, I want to take a moment to address something many of us can relate to burnout. We live in a fast-paced world and sometimes it feels like we're constantly running on empty. If you're nodding your head right now, feeling the weight of burnout on your shoulders, I want you to know that you're not alone.

Christin Marvin: 20:01

Recognizing the need for change is the first step towards a healthier, more balanced life. So if you're ready to make a change, head over to my website at kristinmarvincom, slash contact and schedule a 15-minute discovery call. This call is an opportunity for us to connect, chat about your unique situation and see if there's any way that I can support you on your journey to a more balanced and energized life. Let's work together to design a lifestyle that brings you joy, purpose and renewed energy. Don't let burnout hold you back. Empower yourself to thrive. Now let's get back to the show. Thanks for being here and I look forward to connecting with you soon. So, from the employer side, let's talk a little bit about how this works. So, if I own a restaurant, I post, I sign up with Poached, I post a serving shift, and then what happens from there?

Jack Hott: 20:58

That's pretty much it. We already had a pre-existing and existing posting a job, you know, permanent hire product, and so we basically just took that. I work with the engineering group, so I'm not going to get too in the nuts and bolts of it, but we basically already had a form for which you to fill out a job. So we took that, made it a little more simple, and you come to the website, you fill out a form basically saying this is what I'm looking for for a shift, including a category, calendar, date and times, short description, what we call knockout requirements, to make sure the person can lift 40 pounds over their head and, you know, has certain kinds of qualifications. You can also leave a little more of information that's only visible to the booked worker, you know, like parking in rear, knock on the side door, you know, ask for Dan, you know that kind of stuff, so it's not publicly available. And then once you publish that, that's all free to publish.

Jack Hott: 21:50

That goes out onto our platform, both web and then, especially the app, where a lot of this gets picked up by the other side of the equation or the worker, and so then the worker has their app If they're already in the program to work shifts.

Jack Hott: 22:04

Some of them will get notifications if they're rostered which I know we'll talk about in a little bit and we have a couple of ways of notifying workers that shifts are available for them and from there they pick it up right off the app and then the app is also their time clock so they'll get all the reminders.

Jack Hott: 22:19

You have a shift tomorrow. They get a map and the address so they arrive and then, before the time of the shift starts, the clock in opens. We also have a geo fence, so when you clock in you have to be in the location of the shift you know, just to make sure that everybody's in the right place at the right time. You keep your hours on the app, you work your shift and then at the end you clock out on the app and then you submit the invoice and then the employer has 24 hours to turn the invoice around and then we run it if they don't do it sooner, and then the employer can also leave a tip additionally on that invoice and then, like Kirk said, all of that is straight passed through to the worker and then we only charge the employer the $39 service fee to cover all of that, and it covers the insurance, it covers the infrastructure. We have a service provider that does the cash pass-through, and so that's another thing that we cover through that $39.

Kirk Thornby: 23:19

Within the next 24 hours, so they get paid pretty much instantly.

Christin Marvin: 23:23

That's great.

Jack Hott: 23:24

Yeah, we try to make it as fast as possible and this took us a little time. We had to work with a provider. There was a period of time when you know, if you signed up with a bank account for direct deposit, you could have a three to five business day delay for payment. And no one liked that. You know we didn't like it, workers didn't like it. So we worked with them and we've got it down to it's always, you know, basically instant pay from the point that the invoice is paid, the funds transfer.

Christin Marvin: 23:51

That's awesome. I love what you talked about with being able to add a tip. That's super important and one of the questions that I had. And then, where are you finding this pool of candidates that are picking up these shifts?

Jack Hott: 24:03

That's kind of the whole premise of the business at large is what Crooked Belt is this large audience of restaurant employees that were coming and looking for permanent hire. And so when it was time to move to an on-demand platform, it was a lot easier for us because we already had people coming to Poached they knew Poached by reputation and by brand and then we built the app as well and then we market the app kind of as its own tool and we are over 275,000 downloads and a lot of those are using it for permanent hire. But that's the pool that we can go to and say, oh, would you be interested in picking up a shift? And so that's really helped us with our fill rates and retention and quality of a worker and all that just kind of comes because of the two-sided business permanent hire and then shifts.

Christin Marvin: 24:56

I love the cost aspect of it and I love the benefits for the employer and the employee right Again, if I'm a restaurant owner, I'm paying a very small fee when I am short-staffed or I'm looking at my schedule, I know that I've got a hole in my schedule for Thursday. I'm able to pay $39 and get somebody in that I can bring in a little bit early, train put in a position and not have to have my guest experience impacted, right? Ask everybody on the team to work harder, so it really would help prevent some burnout. And you're interviewing that person to see if they're a great cultural fit, right, I burnout. And you're interviewing that person to see if they're a great cultural fit, right?

Christin Marvin: 25:36

I'm assuming that some people kind of use this as a paid stage opportunity and then end up hiring those candidates. So let's talk a little bit more about like how are you vetting? I mean and again, before I go into that question, I love the employee side of it, because the employee gets to really understand if this job meets the expectations that are set forth, if they like the culture right and the environment, instead of just saying yes to a permanent job and then ghosting the employer or whatever right, which is just a nightmare for everybody. But how are you vetting the quality of the people that are on your platform?

Kirk Thornby: 26:06

Jack, you're a product guy, I'm going to let you take this one, okay.

Jack Hott: 26:09

I was like, don't want to take all the air. Yeah, so basically through the app, all the onboarding comes through the app and then so they basically are offered the ability to pick up a shift or onboard before there's a shift ready for them. At that point they upload their resume and we found this really good resume parsing service and so we're basically able to take the resume and then just make that into the profile and so you don't have to like this is common on hiring platforms you know, upload your resume and then fill out a form with everything that's on your resume. So we made that really easy. So we basically take that resume, we look at the certifications that you have if you need them for whatever location or geography you're within, people fill out an about me and then we also take a.

Jack Hott: 26:56

We get a photo that's really used for identifying that worker to that employer when they arrive at the work site. Hey, I got Jack and that's Jack. Here's his picture. So we take that, we bundle it up. Jack and that's Jack, here's his picture. So we take that, we bundle it up, we show it in an orientation video. That gives the workers kind of you know, here are all the rules. This is kind of how it works. Here's how to clock in and clock out, and then they go into an approval state.

Jack Hott: 27:21

Oh, there's our train. Yep, I knew it'd be shown up sooner or later, anyway for anybody that's listening to this and driving don't worry, it's us.

Christin Marvin: 27:32

It's not you.

Jack Hott: 27:34

We're at the point where we know it's like oh, that's CSS, that one's Amtrak.

Christin Marvin: 27:39

That's funny.

Jack Hott: 27:40

So yeah, and so once they fill out all that form and see the orientation, they go into our approval queue and then we have a team here that looks at everybody and basically what they're looking for is experiences. Does this person have the kind of experience that they would be successful in the role of shifts they're looking to pick up? So if they're looking to pick up cook shifts and they have nothing but warehousing experience, we might not approve them. And they have nothing but warehousing experience, we might not approve them. We might give them a closer look, because what we're looking for is someone is going to be able to show up and do the work that they're wanting to do and be successful, and that's really important to us for obvious reasons. And then, once they're approved, they're now ready to pick up shifts.

Jack Hott: 28:28

And then there's kind of a second step where the employer can then, once they're in RQ, can see workers through a search interface and then they can add them to the roster before the employer has posted a shift. And at that point the employer can kind of say, oh okay, I've looked at this person's resume, I've looked at you know. I now know they have certifications if needed, and you know I'll put them on this list so when I post a shift that person will immediately be alerted and can pick up the shift. And then you know they basically get to meet them at that point, have them work the shift and then can decide if they want them to work shifts in the future. So it's a two-step vetting process half of us just to create the pool and then the other half is the employer kind of pulling from that pool in order to just see who's going to be the best worker for them and then go ahead and full disclosure, kristen.

Kirk Thornby: 29:20

We are overwhelmed with workers and we don't have enough shifts. I think it is indicative of the economy and where the workforce is. I think the restaurant industry has had a little bit of struggling with growth and so there are fewer jobs. Operators are working with fewer days, smaller menus, smaller staffs, and so those people in our coffers we have over a million registered job seekers that come. At least half a million every single month come to the site looking for work, probably looking for full-time work, but also looking for shifts at the same time. So we are overwhelmed with workers. It's not like we have to go look for them.

Kirk Thornby: 30:06

You know our biggest challenge is vetting gig workers. You know people that do Instacart and Uber and are just coddling together an income but don't really work in hospitality. And then people that really work in hospitality they have skills, they have credentials and then also understand the mentality of hospitality and then also understand the mentality of hospitality. You know it's not. You know it's not, it's it's. You're there for that team, for that ship. You know you're part of. You know if you screw over that restaurateur, you're also screwing over people on your, on your ship that night. And so people that really understand how hospitality works and what the culture of it is and why it's important to show up.

Christin Marvin: 30:52

Yeah, I love that you brought up that. You've got a really great challenge of too many people on the platform that want work, right, I'm so commonly and often hearing from restaurant owners are saying I can't find people. There's nobody out there, right, when you know we've talked about this before. Restaurants will post an ad and we'll be sitting on 50 resumes, right, they just don't have the time to sort it through all of those. And I want to go back to the conversation about the roster and kind of dive deeper into that, because this platform really gives restaurant owners and operators an opportunity to build a bench of talent and to build a roster. But within your platform you can get even more targeted about the type of employee that they are looking to add to their team. Can you talk a little bit about the three different ways and areas? When a restaurant owner or operator goes on to post a job on to post shifts, what are their options to post to Sure?

Kirk Thornby: 31:52

Jack, I think this is a good opportunity to kind of jump into that chaos managing chaos conversation that we had earlier. Right, yeah, we were talking a little earlier.

Jack Hott: 32:01

It's like my experience in the restaurant industry. It's a chaotic industry. It's just what it is Right. And there's a lot of conversations I've had with you know, restauranteurs and different people about, well, how do we make it less chaotic? And I think that's actually I started to believe maybe it's the wrong question. It's like, well, how do we embrace the chaos? You know, how do we? How do we ride that, that beast, into the place where we need it to be? And part of what's so chaotic is that, you know, it's hard to find labor right when you need it and it's hard to not burn out the labor that you have.

Jack Hott: 32:34

So what we're trying to do with shifts is introduce a way to embrace the chaos and make something that's more flexible. Say, you have a dishwasher. That's part of your staff. You really like this person, but life happens, they have car breaks, they have an issue with their kid, they have to do something, and so a lot of times maybe they're sick and you don't want them to show up while they're sick.

Jack Hott: 32:58

So instead of having all that pressure to kind of keep people coming to the job site when they really can't, you can use shifts to fill that and then, as you're introducing that flexibility, you're meeting more people.

Jack Hott: 33:13

You're meeting these people that could be part of your team permanently, or maybe they, like you, know that they can kind of step in and step out, and so once you're in that place with people, like now, you know people and as you have permanent higher positions that you need to fill, you do have that pool to come to. But I mean, in chaos, as you can be proactive in that sense of like I'm going to build this roster and now I have a bench and then when I hire it, I can pull from it. That's one way to do it. But oftentimes people don't have the patience to have that much strategy and I feel like it's like, well, we shouldn't expect people to have that much strategy. You should be able to make these decisions in the moment. But when you're making decisions in the moment, you don't want to fall to the chaos. You want to get on top of it. You want to make a good, informed decision, even though it's a quick one, and that's what this is, giving you the ability to do.

Christin Marvin: 34:08

Yeah, absolutely.

Christin Marvin: 34:09

I would hope that restaurant owners are bringing somebody in really happy with their performance, spending some time with them to find out their goals and hiring them immediately and saying we're going to find a position for you, we're going to add you onto the team, bring you onto the team. I don't know how often that's happening, but I know it is difficult to find quality people and we're seeing less and less people enter the industry with that hospitality mindset that you mentioned earlier, kirk, and with the experience, and I think it is taking people longer to get up to speed. You know, when I was in ice cream for a couple years during the pandemic, I took for granted that I've worked with people my entire career in the restaurant business that knew how to make eye contact and smile and say hello. You know those were things that we had to train people that were in high school and college to do, and that was just that was mind blowing to me. But then it was also, you know, an exciting opportunity. But it's definitely a different world out there, for sure.

Kirk Thornby: 35:09

That happens often, where people try somebody out as a shift and that person then becomes a full-time employee. That person, like one of our bigger clients here, that person is now our client. So that shift worker has, you know, gotten onto the team and has become the manager of that team over the last two, three years. And so that definitely happens, you know, for us it's that, going back to the chaos comment that jack made um, you know, you're somebody calls out on friday, or they're suddenly somebody has, you know, a baby or whatever.

Kirk Thornby: 35:43

All the things that happen, because all of the things happen in this industry to people, all the things in life, and and you're suddenly forced into making a quick impulsive. And so by being a little more proactive, building a roster, having a little more forethought, helps you make better hires, which in turn translate into a lower turnover rate and generally better for your team. If you're bringing somebody in that you know works well with your team, everybody stays. So that's what we really see. The benefits of this is A for workers to find, you know, and stitch together a better schedule for themselves and make more money.

Kirk Thornby: 36:28

Also, find ways to work with different restaurateurs that they might not get to work with and then for restaurateurs to really address what the root causes of turnover, I think, is just making impulsive hires because you didn't have time to go through the 25 resumes you got, or you only got five resumes and you didn't like any of them. You know how am I going to get some more bodies in here? So just being able to make a better, more, more, a better, hire.

Christin Marvin: 37:00

I think the industry does really lend itself to creating operators that are impulse buyers. You forget to do inventory or you don't take inventory and you buy food or beverage based on emotion or the relationship you have with your rep. My husband sold wine to restaurants for 15 years. He was real good at getting that wine into a restaurant, right? Oh, there's a gap here in your menu. You need this wine at this price point, right? I know you know what I'm talking about. Both of you know what I'm talking about.

Jack Hott: 37:26

Yeah, that's exactly right. He was really good at his job. Everything has to happen now.

Christin Marvin: 37:29

It does, and so I think you do hope that the restaurateur at the end of the night or the next day gets up and spends a little bit of time going. You know what? I've been hiring too many people for shifts too often. We need to look at the bigger picture, but for some that are short staff, that's not really the reality, right, and so I think this, I think this product really fills the needs on on both for both types of operators, which is awesome.

Jack Hott: 37:59

And I think it could help in retention. On the other side is that one of the things that you know. You know I've been in a restaurant for a long time but burnout was a big issue. You know everyone's working a lot of hours, they're working really hard trying to keep everything together and then you need that day off for whatever reason doctor's appointment, whatever and there's a pressure to show up and managers can you know they they also need everything to happen. So having this kind of escape valve that is the shift I think really can help with retention. With your, your current permanent hired employees, people know that if they can't cover that shift, it can still get filled, the team goes on, the business continues and everybody's happy. And so that's the other way to address that retention issue is to give a little slack to the system with additional labor.

Kirk Thornby: 38:45

Yeah, I mean, you know so many clopings, you know a week.

Jack Hott: 38:49

Yeah, no more clopening 100% Right.

Christin Marvin: 38:51

And you know you both mentioned things come up. And I think one big thing that's you know that again that I love about this product is when you know you both mentioned things come up. And I think one big thing that's you know that again that I love about this product is when you know mental health is a huge topic in the restaurant industry now, right now and or now, I should say and people are starting to finally talk about it. You know, and in the old days when I was an operator, it wasn't, it wasn't a topic of conversation.

Christin Marvin: 39:12

If somebody would come in and they were crying or something happened or they were having a really bad day, my method was, you know, process was to pull them in the office for a second, talk to them, let them get off whatever they needed, to get off their chest, process for a second, and then say, can you get back out on the floor right, like, can you be here for us tonight? And I think again, if somebody comes in and they're having a hard day, this is an option for an employer to go. Let me see, you know, let's see what the options are, let me see what I can do if that employee doesn't need to be there for the money, right? So so again, I think this just really solves so many issues and so many levels for the operators, which is awesome.

Jack Hott: 39:51

So um less crying in the walk-in would be a good metric, totally so.

Christin Marvin: 39:53

When Less crying in the walk-in would be a good metric.

Jack Hott: 39:55

Totally, in three days, someone cried in the walk-in.

Christin Marvin: 39:57

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So what are I mean? We kind of I think you touched on this a little bit, kirk, with just time and energy but what are some of the challenges with this product? I mean, why aren't restaurants using this more? You've got all these candidates right knocking down the door saying I want to work. What's the hurdle here?

Kirk Thornby: 40:19

You know, I think you know, for traditional, where temp work has, you know, always flourished is you know you've got a wedding and you need 30 waiters, you know. Or you've got a you know a stadium or an event and you need all these last minute workers to come in. So that side of the business that's always been there and this just streamlines that. You know, old school staffing people didn't really have a database of hospitality people. They just grabbed people and threw them at the wall and saw who you know the client the customer liked, saw who you know the client the customer liked, and so you know the reputation around staffing was like you know, sometimes they show up and you know they send me 10, I keep two and I send the rest back.

Kirk Thornby: 41:05

Those were kinds of the things that we encountered on the where traditional staffing happened in hospitality and so that part is functions and they know how the drill is. I think it's more a new concept for traditional restaurants and brew pubs and mom and pops where they are. In the past they've just, you know, alright, you've got two clopings this weekend and then you've got a full shift this next week. They just burn their staffs out until somebody cracks out, and then they make an impulsive hire, and then they've got you know that whole thing rolling, and patio seasons come, and so they've brought in even more people.

Kirk Thornby: 41:51

So, I think the hesitancy is just not trusting having just anybody show up, you know. So I think you know there's hesitancy of like this is my restaurant, I'm proud of it, you know. I want somebody that represents me. So I think that the traditional employment paradigm is still sort of relevant.

Jack Hott: 42:11

And I think it should be.

Kirk Thornby: 42:12

You know, I'm not saying this, saying this, people use it in a lot of different ways, but I think building a solid staff. Here comes my train, sorry.

Christin Marvin: 42:24

No, but I agree with you, kirk Tempwork it is a shift of mindset, right? I think people have a lot of assumptions around tempwork and if they haven't tried it in the restaurant industry before, they may just be thinking that it's not something for them or they're not going to get that quality, and so I think it's. This is something that employers really need to think differently about, lean into, but then also think about that employee experience. When that person, when that person walks in your door, how are they being treated? Right? They can't be treated like a temp worker. They've got to be treated like they're part of the team, and that takes some careful, careful thought from the employer side. I mean, that employee is interviewing the employer just as much as the employer is interviewing the employee, right?

Kirk Thornby: 43:08

Agreed and I think so. Just to go to your question about why isn't everybody doing it every day. It is a new way to hire. It addresses all of the pain points that I have experienced over the years no call, no shows on interviews. No call, no shows on the first day of work. Even the industry days can be really hard. So it is a new way to hire and I think, especially for the audience that you appeal to, they're earnest hospitality professionals with you know, maybe it's 50 seats, maybe it's 120 seats, but you know small, medium-sized businesses. They've got a staff of 50 to 75 people maybe, and they've got a turnover rate that's probably I don't know 75 is the average, maybe 80. And so they're hiring now and this is where we go back to, they're making those impulsive decisions. This is a new way to hire. It's really the way I look at it and I, you know we're kind of beating the horse dead here, but that's, that's the way I see this. This feature, this product function in this universe.

Christin Marvin: 44:26

Yeah, I mean no call, no shows and ghosting have always been a part of the industry. Right and and I think I mentioned this to you guys, but I read an article in Forbes that Gen Z is more they are creating a practice and habit of ghosting more when they book and schedule an interview at a job or they accept a position, they're ghosting because they feel like it gives them control over their careers.

Kirk Thornby: 44:51

I read that as well. We have stats from our customer base that one in 10, one in 15 people show up to interviews, and so we have a product that Jack is just working on right now where we'll at least have video interviews on the platform. So that's another way of kind of connecting with people and helping you make a better hire. But definitely, you know, having them come in work in the restaurant, work with your team, is another level of data that you didn't have where in the past. It's, you know, it's kind of like the way I hire Jack, oh you'll do.

Kirk Thornby: 45:28

Okay, come on, help me, Come on in.

Jack Hott: 45:32

And I got really lucky but you don't always.

Christin Marvin: 45:34

Yeah, and paid stages are now the wave of the future, not just in the restaurant industry, but everywhere. I've been reading in the tech industry that people are again Gen Z and people that are entering the tech world. They want to be paid for an eight-hour stage, they want to go in, they want to get a feel for the environment, the culture, the people, the team, the job and they want to get paid.

Kirk Thornby: 45:57

So, again, I think the industry is moving in this direction. It is moving in this direction. It puts so much pressure on these operators that, oh, I need to. My wages have gone up by 75%, my food costs have gone up, my rent is up, the regulations are up. There's so many more pressures on them, and so it's hard to pick a battle right.

Christin Marvin: 46:21

Yeah, 100%.

Kirk Thornby: 46:22

This definitely addresses turnover rate, which is, you know, sort of the hidden cost of the time that you're training these people, the disruption in your team, so but I definitely kind of understand the you know why it's hard on their end of it.

Christin Marvin: 46:41

Yeah, I mean, restaurants can't operate without people, right? And if restaurant owners are in a position where they're picking up shifts every day or three to four days a week because they're short staffed, they're working in their business and on their business right, and so they won't be able to grow in any other area until they find great people. So love that you've got this product. I think it's awesome. I'm super excited about it, can't wait to share it with everybody and would love to have you to talk about what additional resources are out there for anybody that's interested. How can they learn more about Poached and more about ships?

Kirk Thornby: 47:16

Well the easiest thing to do just come to coachjobscom.

Jack Hott: 47:20

You know the site is. You know, I hope it's very. Everyone finds it very user-friendly. We spend a lot of time doing that and it really is meant to it, doesn't it's? It's not a brochure site. Where you land on it. There's a big landing page with all these pictures and things and you have to tell you. You tell us who you are. We pretty much. You. You're looking immediately at jobs and, uh, you, you have the the big button to post a job or to post a shift, and once you start down that journey, you'll be told what you need to know in order to make that successful. So just to get the plug in there, you know, because you got to do it. I think the easiest thing to do to learn more about Poach is to come to Poach Jobs and just give it a check.

Christin Marvin: 47:58

I love it, and I also hear from operators that sometimes they don't know where to go to see job postings and how much their competitors are paying, and this is a great platform for that too, so just wanted to throw that out there.

Jack Hott: 48:09

We get a lot of traffic for people just browsing for that exact reason.

Christin Marvin: 48:13

That's great. They want to stay ahead of the competition, but they're not sure how, so you're delivering that value as well. That's awesome. If they want to talk to you specifically or talk to somebody from the team, who should they reach out to, or do they not have to?

Jack Hott: 48:30

That's a great question. Can they just?

Christin Marvin: 48:31

go on.

Jack Hott: 48:33

Yeah, put it that way.

Christin Marvin: 48:34

If they want to launch in a new market. I'm going big here what do you know?

Jack Hott: 48:39

should we provide for this? We do have lots of ways to talk to us. It's just like well, I'm pausing because I'm like well, who should we have?

Christin Marvin: 48:47

yeah, who's going to answer that?

Kirk Thornby: 48:48

you know sales at sales at poachjobscom and if you're a worker, customer service at poachjobscom or cs at poachjobscom. And if you're a worker, customer service at poachedjobscom or CS at poachedjobscom.

Jack Hott: 49:01

It's support at poachedjobscom Support. Thank you, Jack.

Christin Marvin: 49:06

Awesome. Jack Kirk, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time. Thanks for letting us into the world today, into the poached world, and really sharing your passion behind celebrating the industry and your love of support and talking through some of the challenges that you're facing with the company and some of the future products and services that we are going to be able to look forward to you guys delivering to the industry. That's awesome. Thank you so much.

Jack Hott: 49:33

Thank you, kristen, thank you.

Christin Marvin: 49:35

Absolutely All right. Everybody, everybody. Thanks so much for tuning in this week. Be sure to share this podcast with any restaurant leaders you know and follow me on linkedin at kristin-marvin for more leadership tips. We'll talk to you soon, everybody.