Success Secrets and Stories
To share management leadership concepts that actually work.
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Success Secrets and Stories
Unraveling Goal Setting in Leadership: The Balance of Authority and Innovation Part 2
Step into the realm of leadership styles with us. Picture the conformist manager, tucked safely within the comfort zone of the status quo, contrasted with the achievement-driven leader who thrives on personal success, potentially at the cost of team innovation. Greg's tales from the trenches of the fast-food industry bring to life how sticking to the book can sometimes choke creativity. Through these discussions, we'll uncover how various leadership methods impact both the trajectory of a company and the daily experiences of its team members.
Transitioning into the heart of team dynamics, we explore the influence of responsible leadership. Ever wondered how a self-absorbed HR director could unintentionally forge a steadfast team bond? We'll share firsthand accounts of such paradoxical outcomes and discuss strategies for transforming average performance reviews into career-making discussions. Join us as we recount CEO Kevin Ryan's compelling journey of revitalizing a company teetering on the edge by prioritizing employee engagement, morale, and a well-structured reorganization. Whether you're leading a small team or at the helm of a large organization, this episode promises valuable insights into steering your crew with a responsible and inspiring hand.
Presented by John Wandolowski and Greg Powell
Yes, well, hi everyone and welcome to the podcast Success Secrets and Stories. I'm your host, john Winovsky, and I'm here with my co-host and friend, greg Bauer. Greg, hey, everybody. Hey, in today's podcast we're going to be talking about some additional concepts in terms of the management philosophies on goal setting and, in some cases, the lack of goal setting. So when Dr Durst created this program, he had five levels of management unconscious, protective, conformist, achievement and responsible. And during our last podcast we already talked about the unconscious and the self-protective. We're going to kind of pick it up from the middle of the list of the five levels. We're going to be talking about it, from the conformist management style in terms of status quo and in goal setting, which is what we're going to be talking about today. The person who is a conformist manager kind of advocates goal setting to the staff they delegate it to the staff. Kind of advocates goal setting to the staff. They delegate it to the staff. They don't want to push the staff. They're kind of permissive in terms of how they adapt or challenge goal setting and their commitment is low to moderate.
Speaker 2:Whenever I'm thinking about this kind of description and to help people understand it, there is a quote. There's a Robert Frost poem, the Road Not Taken and I'm not going to try to repeat poetry because I'll end up walking all over it, but it's the path least traveled is the one that creates the most interest. This kind of status quo person is the one that's constantly taking that other path. They're not looking for originality, they're not looking for some kind of different idea. They are going on the path well-worn and they're not interested in creativity. And that is one step away from indifference. Let me try to explain it a little further.
Speaker 2:A status quo leader focuses on managing the business the same way it has always been. There's no interest in trying to do something different and change that needs to happen is only for survival. They're not really looking for creativity. They identify processes and systems that lead to their goals and try to establish a norm. They design formats and monitor their control. So it's more of a hands-off approach. It's a due diligence kind of status quo approach approach too, in terms of the leadership's focus.
Speaker 2:Risk-taking is not one of their strengths. They're not really interested in trying to improve the organization. Interim goals would be. A status quo leader will set interim goals, but they're looking for small wins. They're not really looking for making big changes. There's not really the bigger picture or larger objectives, they're just trying to make it through the week kind of mentality. A status quo leader will work on unraveling bureaucracy when it impedes the action, but again they have to be motivated because the team is stopped. They'll get engaged but they're not really looking for it. And a status quo leader accepts occasional disappointments as an opportunity to learn. That's not really leading, that's again being permissive and just accepting whatever happens. So whenever I think about this, I think about fast food applications and both Greg and I have worked in fast food. My experience, I think, was interesting. But I think, greg, you have a more interesting application of a status quo leader. But I think, greg, you have a more interesting application of a status quo leader. Why don't we talk about your world and your exposure to fast food?
Speaker 1:Thank you, john. Yeah, this was in college, working my way through college, and a job I had was a fry cook at Denny's restaurant. So I'm just out at Denny's. We would get breaks and I'd make myself a sandwich and that was a special sandwich. I created Texas toast, a couple of eggs, some cheese and some hash browns on the side. And I remember going to the break room to eat this sandwich and a buddy said Greg, what do you got there? I said, oh, this is a Greg special, it's a ham and cheese sandwich. Whatever he said, can you make me one? I absolutely. And he had it, he loved it.
Speaker 1:Uh, probably a week or so later, uh, the uh, the manager, restaurant manager comes in the back room break room and says hey, greg, how you doing good. He goes what's that you're eating? I said it's a greg sandwich, greg special. He goes we don't sell a greg special, there's no greg sandwich here. I said well, sure it. And he said no, how do we charge you for that? What's the cost, what are the materials, et cetera. He said we make ham and cheese sandwiches the way it says in the book. And that was it. There was no debate, there was no inspiration to come up with creative recipes for other sandwiches. That was the end of the Greg special. The end.
Speaker 2:I like that. So the next so that kind of it's a status quo, you're not going to do anything original. The next category is the achievement by management by crisis is the achievement level and goal setting for people who are at the achievement level. They're basically selling people. They're selling people on their goals. Their commitment is either moderate to high in terms of the organization Another term that is used a lot for this person.
Speaker 2:This manager by a crisis is a self-centered leader, and it is rooted in the belief that the leader's vision, the decisions and their needs take precedence over others. The style is awful. It manifests itself in terms of downward leadership, where they control the authority, personal achievement and sometimes make themselves the main focus, and the examples that I keep on thinking about is whenever I've had somebody in this level who would steal my information or steal my presentation. That's a perfect application of a person who is that self-centered. And when I was doing my research perfect application of a person who is that self-centered and when I was doing my research, I came across the description of management by crisis and I thought they did a pretty good job. Of an achievement leader is also known as self-aware leaders, prioritizing their own goals, desires and powers over others. They may not care about the workforce or what others think, and they have little or no respect for others. Instead, they focus and implement and execute their own agendas. The achievement leadership is different from people-centered leadership, which is about motivating and inspiring others to perform their best. People-centered leadership, which is about motivating and inspiring others to perform their best.
Speaker 2:People who are self-centered leaders have followers by choice and they may nurture and grow and build and develop others, but it's not their key requirement. Another way to best identify someone who's in this category is that they're heavy handed. They may state their position and title Like another story that Greg had talked about is CFO. You know when you find out their. Their titles are also their description of how they identify themselves. Um, power to hire, they have the power to fire and they they do like that kind of authority. Um, they can't stand for others. They may not celebrate somebody who is getting promoted. That is a peer. It is what is happening in their world, not other people's worlds, and I was doing research on this and I found some interesting articles. Maybe, greg, you can introduce the LinkedIn resource that we're going to talk about.
Speaker 1:Thank you, john. Yes, you found a really good one in LinkedIn the Mindful Path newsletter. And the Mindful Path is a transformative newsletter dedicated to nurturing personal growth, well-being and mindfulness, and it's really by Hilaria Vankoli. She's a data analyst, she's an innovative operations strategist, procurement consultant, she's got some finance background. Driving, excellence and results are her forte. Customer-centric operations.
Speaker 2:Maven, she calls herself, and she's from Lagos, nigeria this article and I'm trying to find a way that, as we communicate on this podcast, how can we best communicate these ideas and these concepts and her article navigating the challenges of working for a narcissistic and self-centered boss and I had all kinds of examples because I've had the unfortunate opportunity to work for a couple of these guys but she did a very good job of describing it in a very direct format. So let me, let me get to it. In the world of employment, personalities come in all shapes and sizes. Some bosses are supportive mentors and others are taskmasters, masters. However, working with a narcissistic and self-centered boss can present unique challenges that test our patience, resilience and interpersonal skills. While they can be a daunting experience, it is not insurmountable. Let's explore and navigate a few of the tricky workplace dynamics, and that's the part that I thought I'm going to break from the text a little bit. That's the part that I thought really spoke to understanding what it is to work for that kind of environment. So I think she's had that exposure too. Understand a narcissistic boss. She continues.
Speaker 2:First, it's essential to recognize the traits that define a narcissistic and self-centered boss. Such individuals are typically exhibiting an exaggerated sense of self-importance and a constant need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others. They are often prioritizing their own interest and success over other employees or the organization as a whole. Identifying these traits can help you understand the type of management situation you're in Dead on the point. She goes on and talks about maintaining professionalism. When working with a narcissistic boss, professionalism is your best ally. Keep your emotions in check and focus on your job responsibilities. Avoid reacting emotional to their behavior, as it is often counterproductive and that's an understatement on her part. It's always counterproductive. You have to be able to separate the emotion from the facts and to continue. Remember that their actions are a reflection of their personality rather than their judgment of your ability, and she's right on the mark. Second is to establish clear boundaries. Set clear boundaries is crucial when dealing with a self-centered boss. Be assertive about your own needs and priorities and communicate them effectively. Own needs and priorities and communicate them effectively, politely, decline tasks that are beyond your scope or capacity and ensure that your workload remains manageable. The other element of setting up boundaries on my part I noticed that I had to talk about also where the legality of asking me to do things that are beyond not only my responsibility but are questionable, and questionable in my world is whether they're legal or not. I would not do the things sometimes asked when I felt it was illegal. She also.
Speaker 2:Her next point, I think, is to that description document everything To protect yourself in case of conflicts or misunderstandings. Document your interactions and tasks and she couldn't be more correct Keep records of your conversation, emails and project assignments. This document can be valuable if you ever need to defend your actions and decisions, and in my case, I can tell you now that I actually had to use my documentation without going into detail. That saved me a lot of aggravation because of the environment that I was in. The other part, I think, is where she's talking about working in the environment long-term.
Speaker 2:And her next point is seeking feedback. While it may be challenging, seek the feedback from your boss when necessary. However, frame your questions in a way that aligns with their self-centered nature. For example, ask how your work can help them achieve their goals and improve their image. This improves. This approach may increase their willingness to provide input. I can tell you that I was never good at that. I was never good in trying to make my boss look better.
Speaker 2:Next one she had, and something that I did actively do is cultivate allies. Building positive relationships with colleagues and superiors can be a valuable strategy when working with difficult, narcissistic bosses. Allies offer their support, share insights and provide a buffer in difficult situations. They can also help you maintain a perspective and avoid feeling isolation, and that was important, especially when you're dealing with an environment, to understand that others can distinguish what is coming from the narcissist and what is coming from you. I think that was a very important element and she was right on on that one.
Speaker 2:The next point is pretty much to the mark that self-care is vital when you're working for a narcissist. It can take it out of you, she says. Working for a self-centered boss can be emotionally draining. Making self-care a priority in your life, engage in activities that help you to relax, recharge and maintain your mental and emotional well-being. This will enable you to better handle the workplace challenges and, the truth is, it will keep you from going crazy, because the amount of pressure that you sometimes can be put under is mind-numbing, and I always get a tickle whenever my kids know that I was under pressure. I would play soft jazz and it would drive them nuts. Um, but that was. That was one of my relaxing approaches and and I would listen to music with no words for the sake of just calming myself. So for those that are working with narcissistic bosses, trust me it helps. Um, and then her next point is pretty much the mark for me Explore career options.
Speaker 2:Because well, let me quote her, if your boss's behavior becomes unbearable and negatively impacts your professional growth and happiness, it may be time to explore other career opportunities. Consider networking, updating your resume and actively seeking positions in organizations with a healthier workplace culture. And that's the essence of it. It all depends on whether the organizations you're working for, if you really like the organization itself, there are different ways of moving within the organization or possibly outlasting the narcissist, because unfortunately sometimes they get promoted up as well as burning out I mean, you could outlast that individual but both of those strategies really do take a toll. But both of those strategies really do take a toll and sometimes, if you're there for the second year and the third year and you're working in that kind of environment, it's not worth the physical toll that it takes on you.
Speaker 2:Her final thoughts working in a narcissistic and self-centered boss is undoubtedly a challenge experience, but it can be a valuable learning opportunity. It teaches you resilience, patience and adaptability, which are essential for any career. By maintaining professionalism and establishing boundaries and seeking the support of allies, you can not only survive but thrive in a challenging work environment. Remember that your well-being and your career growth is always to be your top priority, and I can't make it a clear point that that she was trying to bring up, that you're responsible for your career, that that narcissistic boss is not getting any more authority than what you give them. So if you have decided that it's an environment that is unhealthy and it's time to move on, I would recommend moving on that quicker rather than later.
Speaker 2:But to be wise about making those decisions and, to her point, exploring your career options and understanding you're making that decision. Don't run away if it's a bad environment, because one of the things that you're supposed to be doing is maybe helping that boss understand that they're so self-centered and narcissistic that sometimes you can actually help them. It's rare it happens, but you're supposed to be managing up and that's always the way that you have to take a look that you need to be managing that next level, and that's how you end up being qualified for that next level. Sometimes you can do that Sometimes you can't. Um, greg, do you have another example of working for that kind of environment?
Speaker 1:Thank you, john, I do. Um, I worked at a company really early in my career in human resources and we had a director. We had a couple of managers and then a lot of us individual contributors, which is I was one of. The director was narcissistic and self-centered to the T, no question about it, just cared about himself and no one else. The way he carried himself, his glib responses to things, very high and mighty. He didn't really care about his team at all, just his image.
Speaker 1:And I remember that the managers that were separating us from him buffered us from a lot of the tension and just the interaction. And we appreciated that, although there was also a loss of opportunity because we couldn't be seen as well. This individual had managed up so well that the VP didn't recognize that this individual was narcissistic, or maybe they were in denial, whatever, but this person was just that way. But guess what? This director kind of forgot where the line was and they crossed the line and did something that no HR person, let alone anyone else, should ever do and they were terminated.
Speaker 1:And I think the lesson for me was we rallied together as individual contributors and made a community of folks. We're going to do the right thing, the right way. We're not going to let that image spoil how we're going to grow and develop and do our job and we did our best to stay humble and stay professional. But it was a very awkward situation and at the end of the day we felt worse for our managers because they were in the trenches with this guy every day. We were outside looking in and they were just valiant in their approach. But not a good situation and I'm glad that we did not have to use John's thought about leaving the company. We just got lucky. He got terminated, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to the previous article's point, you grew from and saw the growth within your own staff and your peers. Unfortunately, it was like trying to battle this individual. That was really the problem, but there was still a good team that was underneath that individual, that self-centered individual that had to basically bond together.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:And there was advantages of doing that and there was advantages of doing that. So now the next example is what we're all trying to talk about is the management by responsibility of the responsible leader. Dr Durst had another term of being a developer, and that's kind of the key here. Goal setting is inclusion of staff, and goal setting process Promotes creativity and objectives in terms of selling, selling the staff on concepts, and the commitment level is high in order to try to make that work. And when you talk about somebody in a responsible level, they are oriented leaders that set challenging goals and inspire the teams. These goals are ambitious and they're to attract, to be attainable, I'm sorry, and to help drive the individuals to a collective growth. Development of a leader and a staff towards their goals and their careers really should be their focus. So their staff advancements and their expectations are something that a responsible leader knows. I always use the performance review as a career review, and that was my opportunity to deal with people on where they wanted to be in terms of careers. So I'm a big advocate of trying to eliminate the term performance reviews your annual performance review. It should be your annual career review, and that's another element of being a responsible leader. A responsible leader also encourages employees to work together to achieve the goals, to improve employee morale. They make the employees feel like they're part of the process. They're part of the process. They're part of the team.
Speaker 2:A responsible leader focuses on investing on personnel and recognizing the importance of nurturing individual skills, talents and professional growth. I've seen this focus on investing in personnel development is not only just leadership, but within a mechanical approach or a professional approach, taking their skill sets up to be more competitive against peers. Marketing agent they're the best accounting person that might want to go to the CPA level, that they're always trying to improve their technical skills, not only leadership skills. A responsible manager also has an interesting approach in terms of fostering team activities and looking for cooperation and trust and camaraderie and, amongst the team, that skill. When you start seeing people who do that, they're getting it. They understand that work is work, but it's also developing the people and the kind of continuity of that. They're a team. And how you create the come out camaraderie, how you create that kind of environment, is your personal approach. There's that little bit of people know when it's genuine and when it isn't. So trying to give you an example of what that really means. It comes to an example that I constantly think about, as far as somebody who got it that never went through MBA program constantly think about as far as somebody who got it that never went through MBA program.
Speaker 2:I work for a company called Wesley Justin and president and CEO that I was most impressed with was probably the second guy that I was working for and his name was Kevin Ryan, and he came into this organization when the company was just about at the point of bankrupt and the employee morale was down and he improved morale in a heartbeat. He reorganized the management teams. He was considered a leader in the industry and therefore he came with the credibility industry and therefore he came with the credibility and people were listening to him as a subject expert, which really does make a difference in terms of helping that transition as quickly as he was able to do it. But he led by example and he was sincerely interested in staff. The best example I can give you is here's a CEO that knew me as a construction and facility engineer. How many CEOs actually know that they have engineers that work for the organization? That says a lot about the individual and he was generous with his praise and his encouragement and always had time to talk to people and stopping people in the hallways.
Speaker 2:So one of my favorite memories is I actually left the organization. I thought that my career wasn't advancing and I had an offer for a competitive company that was going to increase my pay. And I had an offer for a competitive company that was going to increase my pay. And when I started the job, I realized that they had lied about the position and they felt that I was trapped and they had a signing bonus and I handed them back the signing bonus two weeks later, never cashed it and in the process I had talked to my previous manager and they said that they hadn't even put in the ad for the paper I could come back. But what was interesting is that, um, Kevin knew me, knew what was happening in terms of rehiring, and he would stop me in the hallway, especially when he was with other executives or customers, and, and and he would stop me in the hallway, especially when he was with other executives or customers, and he would call me the best repeat employee and talk about my two-week lapse of my career at the company. And it was embarrassing and it was encouraging that here's the CEO that knows my story.
Speaker 2:What was really interesting, Sorry, Sorry. He wanted to make sure that I was going to be looking, looked at in terms of promotion because of the time that I had been away it was only two weeks but he realized that I wanted to do more and he learned a little bit about what I did in my education and my background background. To make a long story short, within six months I was advanced to a senior manager responsible for worldwide distribution for the US, Canada, Japan and Europe. It was just the kind of person he was when he felt that I had the skill set and saw the, he advanced me. So an MBR approach. This executive was engaged in a department in an organization that was broken. It needed to be fixed, saw somebody within the organization that he thought could handle more responsibility and had some fresh ideas on a change and went for it, and I couldn't be more appreciative on that opportunity. So I think that's a pretty good description of an MBR person, Greg, what are we going to be talking about during our next podcast?
Speaker 1:Well, John, we will be continuing our discussion to the important subject of delegation.
Speaker 2:Awesome, and I've used this term a lot. It is a key element of being a MBR or responsible leader, and we'll go into that. I think we'll have some fun with that. So, if you like what you've heard, my book is available at amazoncom and lulucom. Building your Leadership Toolbox my ebook is available on Barnes Noble. Obviously, you found our podcast of Success Secrets and Stories, thank you. It's available on a lot of other podcast formats. Dr Durst's books and his NBR program is available at successgrowthacademycom. We've also done something in terms of increasing the ability to hear from our audience and we have a thing called buy us a cup of coffee, or you can contact us, or we also have our email. Mine is wando75.jw at gmailcom and Greg.
Speaker 1:That can be reached at gpowell374 at gmailcom.
Speaker 2:And the music is brought to you by my grandson. So we want to hear from you, and you can either use the Buy Me a Cup of Coffee, or use the email formats or anything else that you want to get us in terms of contacts. We'd love to hear from you, so, greg, thanks, thanks, john, as always, next time Next time.