Hello and welcome to the let's be open podcast. I'm D and I am here with Monet. Tonight's topic is Introduction to the lifestyle. So tonight we're going to talk about some of the stuff that we've learned over the years about the lifestyle and maybe talk about some like resources, how maybe help you ease your journey into the lifestyle. But first, let me check in with the lovely Monet. Monet, how are you tonight? I'm doing
Mo:great. Thank you for asking. I'm excited to be here. Yeah. And to piggyback off what you said my goal is to share the things that I wish someone would have shared with me as we were getting started in the lifestyles. We were considering it and then, embarking on the journey.
Daniel:Absolutely. I feel like back when we started, there wasn't a lot of resources and I feel like today, the good thing is there's a lot of resources and so there's blogs, books videos on how to proceed forward to go into the lifestyle. We went in blind.
Mo:Yeah, I think that's too,
Daniel:yeah, it was let me ask you a question. What was your first step into the lifestyle?
Mo:Our first step in the lifestyle, specifically speaking for myself yeah, it was the dialoguing, the talking A and I Spent a lot of time talking and communicating. And I think probably the best place to start is for you and your partner to consider why you would want to open your relationship up. What is it that you want to accomplish? And what my partner did was he gave me a great example we've all had our relationship, right? And then we go to work. Maybe we're working at a new place or maybe a new employee starts and that person catches our eye and we're like, Oh, they're attractive, right? And maybe we have to have interaction so on and so forth and we find ourselves Beginning to be attracted to this person for whatever reason, whether it's physical or the personality, humor, whatever we find ourselves attracted. And so in a traditional vanilla relationship, we begin to feel guilty about that. Oh my gosh, what does this mean? Do I not love my spouse? We question ourself. We start to feel guilty, whereas in the lifestyle. If and when you decide to be open, you can actually go home and tell your partner, Hey, you know what? This new person started and I think I'm attracted and you're confident that you're not going to be judged because you're making yourself vulnerable to share this really personal thing.. A talked about distractions. Those things can become distractions. So how can we overcome those distractions? This might be a way to help address that. Maybe it's somebody from your past. Maybe it's somebody from your present. Maybe it's current. Yeah. You just don't know. Again, we can ask ourselves what is it that we're trying to accomplish by opening up our relationship? And once you guys agree on that, and that's the most important part is to agree and then figure out the how to from there.
Daniel:Yeah one of the best talks like I've had with my wife is that when she used to work in retail, when she was getting her master's program of certain guys she was attracted to at work. And it led to some interesting conversations, which led to some really good sexual activity that night. But for some reason, we live in a society where, Most relationships, like when, if one person came up until the other partner about, Oh yeah, I found this person at work attractive, their guard goes up and why are you checking out that person? And it turns into a big mess. It's nice to have that, especially
Mo:with
Daniel:that personally. Exactly. It's nice to have that open conversation. With your partner. It's healthy. Yes. That's what it is. We're all at the end of the day. We're all human and It's human nature to be see someone attractive Maybe give them a second look, or maybe a long, a little bit longer look without being greedy. Yeah. And I think it's pretty cool that I can come home and share that with my wife and vice versa and there's no hard feelings and there's not going to be like any like argument.
Mo:There's no fear. Because you and your partner are confident and secure in your relationship. And that's the thing that I did want to stress. We touched on it last time, but again, I just wanted to stress that the lifestyle, making the choice to go into the lifestyle is not going to fix any of your problems. If you are having a tough time communicating already, you get to work on that. I would say work on that before you actually take any active steps in the lifestyle because otherwise you could have a lot of conflict just for the sheer fact that you are not communicating. And when I say communicate, in a genuine manner, don't answer your partner and give them what you think they want to hear. You get to be honest and to elaborate on what you said, in the traditional lifestyle. The traditional vanilla lifestyle, we're judged because we say X, Y, or Z that our partner does not approve of, so to speak, or our society doesn't approve of, but it doesn't matter what anybody else says. It matters what is going on in your relationship. With your significant other. So again, it's about communicating and Being confident in your relationship. It may not be perfect, of course, because neither of us are perfect But are we working towards getting better? And as you said resources are available even for communication You know even something as basic as do you know your partner's love language? What is, what does that even mean? Maybe you haven't heard that before. Maybe that's a good place to start and see where you can go from there.
Daniel:Yeah, I took the easy way route. I just married a therapist.
Mo:That's great though. I'm sure that is, has been beneficial for you and help bring out certain things to light that you needed to address. Yeah. So that you can grow and get better and be the best version of yourself.
Daniel:Our journey started again, touched a little bit on last week's episode about how I always had fantasies about the lifestyle. And which led to like many talks between my wife and I.
Mo:Can you elaborate on one or two of those?
Daniel:She wanted to know where they come from. Oh, why? Why? It was so specific. If I saw something,
Mo:that's a valid question, right? That's a valid question, but you have to
Daniel:feel the way I answered the way I answered it, the way I answered it was. I just think this is the way I'm wired. I don't have, there's not a specific time where where I can recall seeing something about the lifestyle and oh, that's something I want to be a part of. It was just the idea of sharing my spouse, watching my spouse.
Mo:Let me ask you this as well. Do you recall being maybe in grade school or junior high, whatever, when you first became aware of girls, right? In your case, girls, did you ever find yourself liking two girls at the same time?
Daniel:Yeah. Yeah. But then the thing about it too, was it wasn't like Ooh, I want to have a girlfriend. It was like. What intrigued me more was like the idea of going to a party and playing like spin the bottle, kissing multiple people or going to school. Cause like again, sixth, seventh grade, there would be at lunch for some reason we would corner a couple and watch them kiss and then make the boobie dance. And so it wasn't me. It's my whole class. And so yeah, so that was exciting. That's so
Mo:interesting.
Daniel:Yeah. So again, I don't know where it came from, but again, just
Mo:the way you are. Yeah. Yeah. And I have a feeling the same is true of me because I do recall being in, whatever age I was when I became aware of boys and yeah, I definitely recall liking being attracted to more than one boy at the same time.
Daniel:But you know the thing about it too was like thinking back at that time talking opening up to my wife was It was that fear like oh, she's gonna judge me. Is she gonna think something's wrong? This isn't normal Because that's the way we're brought up. So we were taught as a society
Mo:right
Daniel:as a society Person you marry that one a person end of story we let, like I said, we led to many conversations and I remember one day I was on my way home from work and she's She just called me and was like, you're not going to believe what I just did. And I'm like, what did you do? And she's I have a surprise for you. Got home to find out that she went on AFF. She paid and made a profile for us just to see where it would go. And that was our first step into the lifestyle. Which, so yeah. To be honest, I'm not saying going back to what you just said, it's not going to fix, the lifestyle is not going to fix your problems, but I feel like right then and there, it made me better at communicating with my wife am I perfect?
Mo:Why do you think that was? Why do you think that was?
Daniel:If I could tell her something like this, then something else doesn't seem like that big of a threat or that big of a deal. And like I said, I'm not perfect, but I feel like this has made me better at communicating with her on my feelings and my wants.
Mo:Yeah. And that's what's so important. And you knew that because the fact that she created the profile, okay. I can understand that you probably, yeah, that you just took a deep breath and just relax. You just exhaled and you're like, okay, we're doing this. We don't know what's going to happen. We don't know what that means, but we've taken step one, which was to create the profile on adult friend finder AFF, I
Daniel:have an interesting story, actually, real quick this is the first time. Okay. So I was working and I was training a new employee and so funny and keep going. So she asked if she can check her email and I was like, of course, so I'm doing something and she checks it. Her email and then she went to go check on something and I'm so I went to use the computer because there's only one computer between us and so I wake up the computer by moving the mouse and she left her inbox and it was just A doll friend finder, a doll friend, all of this messages from a doll friend finder, and I'm like, a doll friend finder too. This is crazy. And I'm like, okay, so what do I do? Do I not mention it? Do I keep it to myself? Should I bring it up? I'm like, I don't want to be creepy. At this point, we have not. Reached out to anybody. We haven't played with anybody. Only thing we have is our own profile. That's it. Okay And so she comes back and then later Maybe like an hour or so. I brought it up to her to this employee How did you bring it up? I got like I go. I'm so sorry, but I went to use the computer and you left your inbox. I noticed, and she started blushing and she's Oh yeah, my front, my, my friends made me do that. And I'm like, I'm not judging. I go, we, my wife and I have, we just created our own profile and I go, I go, I'm just curious. How has it been for a single female? And she told me, and she was getting a lot of responses and I could, and of course. Blah blah blah and after hearing our story and how why we signed up she was like if you guys ever wanna Be interested like in a threesome. I would like to meet your wife and we'll see what comes in I know so right off the bat. We met a unicorn and that was our first play experience Awesome.
Mo:Oh my god, that is cool.
Daniel:Yeah Good time
Mo:and the beauty of it is she literally fell into your lap
Daniel:Literally. I just remember rushing home to tell like my wife, you're not going to believe what happened at work.
Mo:You definitely topped hers. Although hers, if she hadn't done that, then you wouldn't have gotten the unicorn, but whatever.
Daniel:But that was my first time. That was my first time. I would say like having sexual intercourse without any emotion. Because there wasn't any lead up to it, but we we set up the date, I got a hotel and we've made arrangements and she came over and we went right into playing and then no small talk. And then it was done. She left and it was that's it. What just happened? And yeah.
Mo:Wow, that's, yeah, that's interesting. But between you and your spouse, yeah, that was going to be my next question. Was it still good for you and your spouse?
Daniel:Absolutely. So like we replayed what just happened. I think we reconnected, then we went to go get something to eat, came back, reconnected some more and yeah, it was lovely. So we had a good time. It was, I think it was a good first experience for us. And then I think like a month or two down the road, that's when we met our first couple.
Mo:The other couple. That you mentioned in the previous episode. What I was going to say is that, yeah, I think. Your guys's first experience with a unicorn was probably exactly what you needed. You didn't need it to be mucked up with emotion. You just needed her to make her entrance, perform, and make her exit. And then you guys, like you said, got to relive that, got to talk about it. What did you like? What did you not like? And relive it and you My spouse and I say using that as fodder for us and for us, it lasts, it'll last two weeks or more, or it'll lead to other conversations, other thoughts,
Daniel:absolutely. Again, I think, I know I mentioned lots of this, so like we, our time is very limited and we feel like since our time is limited, the time that we do have, we rather. Focus, make sure focus on each other and then see what's out there. So unfortunately we haven't had time to go to a an event party or plan a date with another couple. But it doesn't mean we use the, our experience as dirty talk or foreplay in the bedroom.
Mo:What I want, are you ready to move on from this
Daniel:portion? Yeah, so okay, so let me ask, if you can give one piece of advice to a new couple, what would it be? Just one.
Mo:Just one. I would say, to realize that, Your relationship is the foundation of this whole thing. So when you and your spouse are good, Everything else will be good and fine and that'll work out because it doesn't matter what happens there. What matters is your connection with your spouse. And as you said, after you had that experience with the unicorn, you guys came back and reconnected. That's what we in the lifestyle call reclamation. You're reclaiming your partner. You're reclaiming your bond. Yes, they may have gone or you may have gone out and had a different experience than another experience, but in the end you come home together. This is your person.
Daniel:Yeah, That's the same line I was gonna say my Would be just Be confident with yourself be confident and with each other in your relationship Because this lifestyle it's gonna throw so many curveballs actually Yes, sir. You think you guys will be on this like Same page, and everything will go smoothly, and it's not. I remember our first experience, and it was at a hotel room. Sorry, first experience with a couple, and we were in a hotel room. And I was on a bed with other female. My wife was on the other bed with the male. And this was the first time where we played in front of each other with another couple and he was performing oral sex on her and She started making a different type of sound and and so it was good. She wasn't in pain or anything like that. She was enjoying herself and right away, like My natural reaction was like, why is she making that sound? I've never heard that sound. And usually when she gets there, it's usually she has like the steps before she gets there and she seemed like she just went from zero to 60. And I remember the next day. Talking about it and she was it's nothing personal, but, it was two different, you guys have two different techniques and I like them. And so instead of getting defensive, my, my next question was what was the technique? What would you like about it? And she told me, and so I started implementing that technique when we played with each other and it got it made me a better lover to my wife and I felt like we connected in that way. I think a lot of exactly We'll go get jealous mode and argue fight like Never made that noise with me. What's wrong with you? And they take it personal, right? You have to be confident with it yourself. And I think you have to be confident in your relationship If you're right go down this road
Mo:Absolutely agree. 100%. Yeah. So you basically said what I said, but almost like the other side of the coin about being confident. Yeah. So it's interesting how that worked out. We didn't plan this. It just worked out. So this is what needs to be heard obviously by our audience. I wanted to expand a little bit more on what you were saying. Yeah. You had an opportunity to go one direction or another and you decided, how can I grow? What can I learn and think about it this way. Talk about a mind blower. Had your wife not had that experience, you would not have grown into a better lover. Absolutely. Isn't it? Isn't that crazy? That's mind blowing. One of the analogies that my husband used on me and it made perfect sense. I happen to be a foodie, so I love to try different restaurants, different types of cuisine. And so he said, how would you like to have The same meal. Day after day, and I was like, even if it was my favorite meal, after a while I'd be like, I gotta mix it up. I need some Italian, I need some Indian, I need some Persian. And I'm talking cuisines, not necessarily cultures, but sometimes cultures too.
Daniel:I've seen you at parties.
Mo:I'm an equal opportunity lover, what can I say? So anyway, that really resonated with me. I got that. And again, in our culture, we're taught one person forever. And I started thinking about that and thinking, so I'm putting this expectation that this one person is going to have to meet all of my needs perfectly for the next X number of years that we're together. And they're supposed to do that for me. And I'm supposed to do that for them, all of their needs. 100% of the time, talk about pressure. My spouse is not a foodie, so he's grateful for my lovers that take me out to places that he has no interest in going. Because he wants to see me happy. He wants to see me fulfilled. And that's what we call compersion. He's happy for me. And now I've grown to the point where I'm happy for him when he has his experiences. Which are not food related. Anyway.
Daniel:I remember, I think at the last party, we went and we saw you guys, which was a long time ago. And I remember talking about this and he's yeah, if she wants to experiment with, or she's craving a certain type of lover, like he's basically if I'm trying to, oh yeah, he said. If she wants to be with a young black guy, I'm not, that's not me. He's middle aged Hispanic. So exactly. So I want to give her what she wants. And so therefore it gives me pleasure to see her. Happy thought that was very cool. Like it was just I started talking to him because, we can always have like good conversations, but
Mo:he's very well spoken is it, how lucky am I that my husband says, yes, go. That's incredible. And it's a mind blower and it's counterintuitive. We all think, Oh, if this happens, we're going to be torn apart. And the mind blowing part is we are not torn apart. It draws us closer to one another and our bond is stronger.
Daniel:Yeah. And I've seen like stories on the other side, like talking with a friend of mine they admitted that they were having an affair. And so we had a long conversation about it and I remember them saying that they wish that their spouse was having an affair just so they would feel better about themselves. And I'm like I go, does this other person? person make you happy, the person that they're having an affair with. And they said, yes. And I'm like, sounds like you should talk to your partner and come clean. It would do wonders for your conscious. But maybe they're having similar feelings or, and maybe, polyamory or the lifestyle might be the answer for you guys. Maybe that's something you guys can do together. And I remember them looking at me and it was like, That's weird. That was a great quote. That's weird. Oh, I don't like. So you'd rather have your partner go out and cheat on you and then come clean and it'll make you feel better. Then talk to your partner and get on the same page. I just thought that was interesting. Cause again, too, like I think I'm not saying like swinging is a new normal, but I think it's. People are starting to wake up and see that there's a, another option and maybe dip their toes into
Mo:the lifestyle. Yes. Let's look at the numbers. What is the divorce rate in this country? It's over 50% now. So obviously what we're doing, it is not working. So we need to find a better solution. One thing I wanted to plug in regards to what you shared with your friend, one of the early steps, mom, I shouldn't say early cause it wasn't early. It was more towards the middle of our journey that we ran across a fantastic TED talk by a woman named Esther Perel, E S T E R Perel. And it is called Rethinking Infidelity. And that talk really, I understood that talk. I got that talk because I had a previous marriage where there was infidelity. And basically the sum of what she says, the cliff notes is that once the person comes clean about the affair, there's an opportunity. We can either divorce like everyone else does, or we can use that as a catalyst to say what happened. What are we missing? What's real? Let's look at, let's look at the underlying issues of what's happening in the relationship. And so you have an opportunity to change your life, to have a new relationship if that's what you want, if that's what you choose. But again, it's rethinking everything we've been taught as a society to find a better way forward.
Daniel:Exactly. I remember we were out to dinner one night and my friend, this is a different friend. And he was saying how unhappy he was about his marriage. And he was starting to put this is what they teach you in church. This is what they, this is what it says in the Bible. And finally my wife was like it sounds like you're saying God wants you to be unhappy. And he's wait, what? And then that was his response to my wife's comment. And he started thinking about it. That can't be true. And which led to a longer discussion. But yeah, it's just something, you're taught at a young age about. About it's only one person. For the rest of your life. That's it. And I don't know. I just find that very Like you said there's a report race is high for a reason and I think I saw something I was talking to my wife about it a couple months ago about like in the 50s. They did surveys and divorce rates wasn't high but The cheating on your spouse affairs were, yeah, exactly. And and again, I think I touched back on the last episode we had the swinging sixties, right? Seventies were more sexual revolution with the pill coming out. And you saw these sexual parties going on. Unfortunately, in the eighties. The AIDS pandemic hit exactly, but I think now it's starting to wake up this like sexual revolution Again, I see more. Yeah now with all these websites and apps and resources It's starting to become a little more mainstream Yeah, so did you and your partner? Get together, make a list of like rules and boundaries before you did anything or were you guys, let's just see what happens and we'll make it up as we go
Mo:along. I think we were more the second one, make it up as we go along. We did have talks and my husband is very good about creating scenarios, looking at possibilities. This could happen, or this could happen. And then he says, okay, how will I handle that? If that happens, how will I handle that? If that happens we do prefer to call are boundaries, we call them agreements rather than rules. Rules get a bad rap. So we decided let's call them agreements, right? Because we're going to negotiate. This is what I want. This is what I want. Okay. How can we meet in the middle? Whether it's regarding safety or. Same room play, couple play, whatever it is. When we would go to parties, we would play out scenarios. Usually, if we went to a party, it was a house party, and we had chatted with someone online, and then we agreed to meet up. And so we had some direction going in, but it was always, okay, so what's going to occur? What actions are there going to be? And To be honest, we did have several agreements, and I can say almost every time that agreement was broken, it was by me. I'm not proud of that! But, I think, I'm not trying to excuse bad behavior, right? I would get caught up in the moment. And I think because of the fact that I did grow up so conservative, I didn't have wild days. I didn't have drunken stupors or whatever in my twenties. Like most people do. I didn't have that. I honestly didn't even start drinking until I was 36. That was the first time I got drunk in my life. So I'm a late bloomer. So I think now, so now I think I'm making up for lost time, so to speak. And for me, knowing myself, I'm. I'm actually grateful that it's turned out this way because I have a partner who's protecting me. He's looking out for me, who's taking care of me. He always makes sure that I'm safe, even if it means cutting me off from. Beverages or whatever the case may be, telling me, okay, we have to go home now. So he reigns me in, and I trust him that he's going to continue to do that. So I'm grateful. This is my journey. Other people have different journeys, but this is my journey and I'm grateful.
Daniel:Yeah, I what you said about the rules. When you say the word rules, it sounds like permanent. And that's why I like the word boundaries. And then you can always. Change it as you go along. Yes. Okay we dipped our toes, but now we want to go in maybe a little bit knees deep. Now we want to go like fully in. And you can always change it as you go along. Which are more comfortable. And as far as you're gonna make mistakes. I. Absolutely. I made some mistakes at the beginning. And, I learned from it, and
Mo:that's the important thing, learning
Daniel:from it, talk it out and, you move on. Yes, yeah. Sometimes, not every conversation is going to be fun. Some are going to be harder than others. Yes. Yes. But, again, it's going to make you, like I said, a better communicator. Because if you can talk to your spouse about this, And talking about Hey, what do you want to do for dinner tomorrow? It's not, it doesn't seem like a big deal or
Mo:in laws or finances. Everything pales in comparison. I did want to add a little bit more about when I would break our agreements. My husband is a very patient man. Luckily for me, I'm very blessed because his approach would be okay, so this happened and is that what we agreed on? It's not. And then he would think, okay, are we going to revise the agreement or are we going to stick with the agreement that is not going to happen again? And to be honest, sometimes I would have to say, yeah, I think we need to revise it. And he would say, okay. And the discussion would begin other times I would say, no, I don't, that was a, that was my bad and I don't want that to happen again. And he said, okay, then we'll stick to that. And so again, he, if he saw me going that direction and we had agreed on it and I had said, I don't want that to happen, he would pull me
Daniel:back. Yeah. There is, I remember one time we talked about because we had some friends come over and we talked about like different scenarios if what ifs and
Mo:sure enough. That's a great game to
Daniel:play. Yes. One of the what ifs became a reality.
Mo:Wait, was it a good what if?
Daniel:It was for her. Oh, so so it just happened organically. And one thing led to another. And yes, her and my wife and someone else shared a moment. And the look on my wife's face after was like, I am so sorry. And I'm like, Oh,
Mo:so she knew we
Daniel:talked about I gave you my blessing. Cause I saw the writing on the law on the wall, like a while back. And I had a feeling something would eventually happened with these two people. And I told you I was okay with it and what happened? And we talked about it. Reconnected was no five week. And yeah, so again, we, so in a way we planned ahead, but we didn't talk about like the, what ifs going into this, meeting and like some things are going to happen, like I said do I. Is it okay to break the rules just because no again, yeah, I get, I'm not perfect. I've done it. I broke the rules before and, pay the consequences and I learned, I grew, I feel like I'm better for it and yeah,
Mo:you've learned your own boundaries as well as the boundaries of your relationship.
Daniel:Exactly. Exactly. Okay, so like how would you, what's a good way to bring up the subject of swinging or. I would say swinging to your significant other, like, how would you recommend?
Mo:I think the way that my spouse approached it, I thought was good. I think whenever we ask people questions, I think that's a great way to guide the conversation because when you ask a question, you're not accusing anyone of anything, even though they may say. Wow, that's an odd question. Why are you asking? Or I haven't heard that. Oh, you know what? You can not backpedal, but you can share honestly, carefully, but honestly, depending on, how new you are to this person, how new these ideas are. So maybe even talking about pornography that you watch together. What is it about that you enjoy? Would you want to experience that in real life? So I think pornography is a good way to talk about what you're watching together or yeah, in the past, maybe if your partner cheated or if you cheated in another relationship, why do you think that happened? Do you think there's better ways to approach that? So that might also offer an in, because what you're trying to do is you're trying to see how open that person is. If they're open minded, will they entertain an idea that is controversial, if you will. Or do they become immediately defensive? Because I'm going to tell you right now, the lifestyle is not for everyone. Some people are monogamous and there's nothing wrong with being monogamous. If you're a monogamous, be monogamous. Good for you. That is awesome that you have that discipline, that will, whatever it is, if you can be committed in that way, good for you. But those of us that are wired a little bit differently. Like I said, I think I'm wired differently as well. I'm involved in a consenting non monogamous relationship and we're both good with that. And we're happy. And we're not doing anything illegal. Some people might say it's immoral, but I question that because I'm not deceiving anyone. My intention is not to break anyone's family apart. That would be the furthest thing. I would never want to do that. If Somebody approaches me and their spouse is not aware. That's not going to happen because I'm, that's not me. I don't want any part of that drama. I'm not going to create that sort of drama for someone else. I want my family to be respected. Therefore, I'm going to respect others.
Daniel:Very cool. Yeah, I agree with everything you just said. He hit the nail on like on the head. I think. One of the things when we talked about is we talked about a lot of like hypothetical questions. Yes, so which is great. Yeah, what if we were the third person? Male and female. How would you go about that? What would you like about this? What did way to think me Kiss another woman, how would that make you feel? That's going to be something hard for you to watch. Because there's like a lot of, there's a lot of terminology, like in this lifestyle. And you can go same room, you can go different rooms, orgies, whatever. You have to find out what are you comfortable, what do you like, what do you don't like and, go from there. One of the things that we don't like is hotel parties. As far as we went to one, it was a hotel suite with a bunch of people, but there's a lot of single men. At this party, just walking around naked, and this is one of our first experiences. Oh
Mo:wow, surprise!
Daniel:Yeah, this was uncomfortable, not only, I could saw, I saw how my wife was uncomfortable, which made me uncomfortable. Of course. And we didn't stay too long. But we've gone to a couple house parties that we've had good times, and house parties is our thing
Mo:yes, agreed. Yeah. So
Daniel:you gotta find, you gotta find out what your comfort zone ends and then go from there. Yes. And then if you want push the boundaries, if not, no, I think the worst thing you can go into is having expectations at the beginning,
Mo:like unrealistic, too high,
Daniel:we're going to go here and we're going to, I'm going to find the girl of my dreams. My wife's going to find the guy of her dreams. We're going to have great sex and it's going to be awesome. Doesn't work out like that. It just doesn't right now. Actually, one of the cool things I've learned going to a party was. Everyone there, I had an idea like going into like how it was going to be. And when we got there, seeing the variety of people where I'm like, Oh, wow, this is pretty cool. Cause I'm like, I would never expect these people to be here with me. I don't know why I thought Models or something. And it wasn't. It was just like the, your next door neighbor. Yes. Co workers. It was just like, it was pretty cool.
Mo:Yes. The cross section, the diversity. It was awesome. Not only culturally. But shapes and sizes and ages as well. Exactly. Yeah, I've only, personally, I only went to one event. I'm sorry. It was two because I'm the kind of person, okay, maybe that was a fluke. I'll give it a second chance. Anyway, I did go to two parties and yeah, there were quite a few quote unquote model looking people. And they were very cookish anyway. I went with some friends, so we hung out. We figured, Hey, we spent the money. Let's at least enjoy the venue. We're probably not going to meet anyone, but Oh it was no big deal. So we still enjoyed ourselves, we didn't engage with anyone, but so those parties are out there, but that's a great thing is there's so much variety, you can find some place where you belong or you feel that you belong, or maybe hopefully the goal is to find a few places where you feel like you belong.
Daniel:It's great. I like the idea of just going out and like making friends and seeing what happens. Yes. Finding more people like you said, like ourselves that we can connect with. Yeah. Like minded people. Now we have the same hobby. We share the same interests.
Mo:Clearly. Yeah. Yeah. And I You mentioned earlier about like neighbors or co workers, right? I know for some people that's an awkward thing or something that they're concerned about. I can tell you that actually did happen to me. I'll relay the story. My husband and I went to a meet and greet and a meet and greet is like exactly what it sounds. It's like a mixer. So it's a great place for newbies to start. Look for meet and greets on whatever site you're on. Anyway, we go to this meet and greet and as I'm walking in, I saw somebody through the corner of my eye. Walk real fast back into another room. So I didn't pay attention. We sat down and my husband and I are talking and this gentleman walks up and he introduces himself and he says, Hey so my girlfriend is, says she knows you. She's embarrassed and she's very self conscious to come back out. And I said who's your girlfriend? He spoke her name and I started laughing, I said, Tara, just come out. We're here for the same reason. What is the problem? So she came out and so this is someone that I had grown up with at church. So yeah, I was actually in her wedding. She has since divorced that husband. Yeah, I was actually in her wedding. Anyway. Yeah. She was already divorced when I had run into her. Oh yeah. I talk, I wouldn't say a lot, not often. I've seen her maybe at one or two parties, but we really don't run in the same circles now at this point. But yeah, she was very embarrassed. And I said, listen, I'm going to respect your privacy and I expect you to respect mine. And that was it as far as I know she has, because no one's looked at me weird, because we do still have a lot of friends that are church based and yeah, so yeah I'll see her on social media with some of those friends and I don't, she doesn't post anything about lifestyle stuff, but yeah,
Daniel:that was one of the things like I remember about our first date with the UNA was that, Because again, we had very little bit of experience and so like we were just throwing questions left and right and he was just answering them and I think one of the questions like or one of the statements we said like we have a fear of running into someone and we know into the lifestyle and he's like his response like whoa Oh Okay, so you see me here at a party, I see you, I know why you're here, you know why I'm here. Let's be adults. Exactly. And same thing on the websites. And I'm like, yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Mo:Again, everyone's of age. So what is the problem?
Daniel:Exactly. Was there anything else you wanted to bring up as far as advice, as far as,
Mo:yes advice, go at your own pace. I would say go at your own pace, and I would say within each relationship, one wants to go faster than the other, typically. That's normal. It's not a race. Totally normal.
Daniel:I think it's normal too, especially for the guys, you got the... Yes. They think, okay, we have the green light, sleep essence. Many women, that's going to, and that's going to happen. And again, it doesn't work like that. So it
Mo:does not work that way. Yeah. I would say pro tip is go at the speed of the slowest person. Now, obviously the goal is to speed that person up a little bit. And slow the other person down a little bit. So you got to be able to meet in the middle again, compromising. And how do we compromise? We compromise through communication. What is it that you want? What is it that I want? How are we going to get there? You may want to go to a hotel party. Your partner's saying, can we go to a meet and greet first? You probably should go to the meet and greet and you're going to see people again, about ages, all cultures, all shapes, all sizes. And it's real people that want to have real experiences.
Daniel:Yeah, no, I agree. We spent a lot of time setting up dates and think about dates that it can be fun because You meet there's usually a group text before the actual date. So there's like this build up and right usually It can be a hit or it can be a miss, right? I think we've had a lot of misses than hits Where we had fun, but it's just there was no really connection, like four way connection. So I think So my wife and I were talking about this a few months ago, and I think she's like I want When we do get back into this I want to I wouldn't want to put the dates on the back burner unless I knew for sure something was going to happen she wants to focus more on meets and greets and parties Good great. So yeah, so that's the plan going
Mo:forward, right? Right and to give our listeners a heads up to Usually meet and greets are done at maybe at a hotel bar or something like that. So you're going to go and you're going to pay for your own drinks. And then house parties of course are held at houses and it's just like a regular house party. There's usually music going, there's a dance floor, there's a DJ, there's indoor seating, outdoor seating, and people are having fun. And to be honest, It's cheaper than a vanilla night out at a club, a restaurant, a club, whatever, because to house parties, you typically bring your own booze and they have mixers there for you and they label your bottle for you. So your bottle is your bottle and yeah, they do the mixing and then play areas are. Totally separate and away from the main party area. So you have to seek those out So there's not sex going on as soon as you walk through the door, which is what everyone thinks No, yeah, it is not the case, but it is a fun time. There's lots of great parties There are some not so great parties But you got to go and figure out what you and your spouse like and it's a very that's also a very non threatening area Because as a bro, we can always spot newbies and I always try to go and greet newbies. Hey, how is it your first time here? Have you been here before? Introduce myself. Welcome. I hope you have a great time. Again, I want people to feel welcome. So that's what I do.
Daniel:Very sweet of you. I try. You welcome us to the lifestyle. Yes. But go back to what you just said right now. And you guys. go to these events you got to step outside your comfort zone. If you sit in the corner at the whole party, the whole night, it's just going to pass you by. So be a little more, be a little bit more aggressive, step out your comfort zone and introduce yourself to someone. Or, what you can do is, this is what we did at our first party cause we were, like I said, we were scared, we were in the corner,
Mo:watching everybody,
Daniel:but my wife had to use the restroom, and so I saw, I recognized one of the The party hosts right next to us and so I went up to the husband and I was like, excuse me, sirs. I Know there's the porter parties. Was that for the women too? And he's no the women can use the ones He's a restroom in the house. The Right parties are for the gentlemen. I'm like, oh, okay. It's our first time here. We didn't know And he's right. Hold on one second. He got us one of his friends who's a single female She escorted my wife And I guess you see two single females, you're going to, the crowd's going to go to there. So my wife came back with three other couples, like what just happened? And so that's a good job, babe. Yeah, exactly. And then also, too dress to impress. You want to feel comfortable my wife always makes fun of me because she said, she thinks I overdress to these events. I feel more comfortable if I do that, if I
Mo:take that. There you go. Absolutely. Absolutely. I personally love the theme parties tomorrow night. We're going to a theme party, which is the white party. And then yeah, usually by the way. Don't be jelly, your turn will come sweetie, your turn will come, but yes, it'll be a fun time and so we'll dance the night away. We're hoping that a couple that we met probably about a month ago that they'll show up, they're from Downey so we'll see. I'm hoping that they show up, but if not, we always know that we're going to have a good time at this party. We, both of us love to dance, so at the very least we'll drink and dance and have a good time and we'll meet some new people and yeah, so it'll be fun.
Daniel:All right, so as far as resources real quick, what are you recommend any websites or apps?
Mo:We use chat apps for when we meet new people that we decide we want to continue to get to know. So the ones that we use are kick and what's app. We also use Google voice. So all of those options, you don't have to give your phone number. If you don't want to, I know with Google voice, I have a Google voice number and that's the number that I'll give. With the others, I guess you create your screen name and then that's what they use to contact you. So you're, you don't have to give your real number if you don't want to.
Daniel:We tend to use Cassidy as our profile. Please come and drop a message if you are listening to the show It's Curious Couple Cassidy. And then a real popular website, and as far as the lifestyle community goes is cds cdc. com. I've never used it before, but apparently it's one of the it's just as big as Cassidy. Yeah, check it out. And then as far as an app goes The refund. I've never used an app before, but a lot of resources recommend that app. Are you and your husband on any apps? I know you guys are on
Mo:Cassidy. That's a website that we're on. Yeah. We used to be on AFF and we used to be on another one called lifestyle swingers or SLS. Yeah, but no, we're not. The only one we use right now is Cassidy. Yeah. So we like Cassidy a lot. Oh, cool. Yeah. And then as far as resources getting back to starting off one of the resources that we used was we read the ethical slut and that brings a lot of good points. If, again, facilitates a lot of interesting discussions, cause at the end of each chapter there are discussion questions. So you can present those to your significant other. And whatever applies to you guys, you can use and obviously, and whatever doesn't, you just ignore it. Or it might be where we're not at that point yet. So we'll revisit that. I know we've done that. A number of times gone back and re read or revisited something that when we first read it didn't apply. But now that we've grown to another level, it does apply.
Daniel:I have to check that out. I haven't I heard that book and a lot of good things about it, but I haven't yeah. Had the chance to read it. So I'm going to have to check that out.
Mo:Highly recommend, especially if you're considering opening up your relationship. It'll give a lot of good how to's, a lot of things to consider that you wouldn't consider because when we're first starting, we don't know what we don't know. And yeah for A and I you had asked earlier, did we do it more trial and error? Yes, we definitely did it more trial and error because we didn't know where to go in the beginning, but. We definitely learned a lot, sometimes the hard way, but the point is that we learned a lesson, and use it to strengthen our relationship.
Daniel:All right. So I think that's all I got for tonight. How about you?
Mo:Did you want to cover any of the terms? For our new people. You mentioned it earlier, soft swap, full swap, same room, separate room, DTF. I think most people know what DTF is, right? Down to, our favorite F word. And then, Every again, every couple is different. Some people always stick with soft swapping, which is you and your own partner having sex in the same room with other couples, another couple or other couples, but you don't switch or you don't intermingle really. Then there of course, full swap is when yes, you're having sex with. The opposite partner. And sometimes the ladies, sometimes the men, it just depends on what's agreed upon, beforehand. Same room, that's self defined as a separate room play. And then there's people that actually even date that. And then we start moving more into the polyamorous arena where people actually will go out on dates with someone else's significant other.
Daniel:It's funny like looking back on the first couple we played with, like I said to this day like we're really good friends, but it's been years since we've played with them. When we first started meeting them and we did connect with them and there was a lot of playing, it was a a little bit of a polyamory relationship. Oh really? Yeah, because we just checked in with them every day vice versa. If we ever had a little bit of a free time, we made like an effort to go see them. And even playing with them, it was just like, okay. Cause they were needed. To the lifestyle as well, right? We're like, how do we do this? And I think majority of the play happened in separate rooms and we didn't know if that was the normal thing to do if right like What was yeah, what's the etiquette?
Mo:And there is etiquette in the lifestyle that is absolutely true. So what Daniel, why do you think it worked out that there was a lot of separate room play? Was there any particular reason
Daniel:we just, I remember the first time we played, it was a soft swap agreeing upon the four of us and we were looking okay, so how do we go about this? I think it was my wife. It could have been the other husband. We're like, okay we can get the bedroom this time. You guys can get the living room and we'll switch next time. We're like, okay. Okay. And then they got up awkwardly and they walked to the room and they kept the door open and we had the couch and it was, yeah, again, it wasn't, we didn't know if we should be in the same room. That was like an option. You didn't
Mo:know what you didn't know.
Daniel:Exactly. But again, to like the fact that they kept the door open I always found myself like it was a little bit more distraction to be honest, because I I would tend to peek. Let's see. It's live porn. It's live porn. And I was liking it. But then at the same time, I'm like, you have to concentrate because you have to be there for your partner right now. Yeah. So the
Mo:ideal would have been for her to say, yes, let's watch
Daniel:a lot going on for
Mo:sure. Yes, for sure.
Daniel:Yeah. But yeah,
Mo:it's a beautiful thing when you find your own partner, right? And it's a lot of work to, maintain your relationship. But then if you meet like in your case, another couple and the four of you get along, wow. That's mind
Daniel:blowing. Yeah. Yeah. And so you figure out like what's, and the more you go about it, the more you play, you're going to figure out what specifics that you like, what specific that you don't like. No offense to you and Abe, but like after that was like our first. Same room, one bed experience. And I remember you guys left and I remember telling my wife, yeah, I can't be, it can't be one bed. It has to be two beds. This is so distracting. I was so distracted. I thought of dynamics. It was so distracting. Yeah. I go the same room I like, but being, I go, it has to be different beds. Yeah. Because yeah, I remember you and I are trying to like Make out, but then I see them rocking and I'm like, what's going on?
Mo:That's funny. Yeah. My husband has expressed the same concerns. So he does like being in the same room while I'm with someone else. Probably yeah. Separate beds is ideal because he's found that when he has been in another room. And he hears me, because I'm very vocal, he starts going, What's going on over there? I gotta go see. What are they doing to her? Is she having fun? It sounds like she's having fun. Let me go see. So it's very, yeah, he's much more challenged when he's in another room. Whereas when he's in the same room, he can glance over it. Plus he can hear, but he is able to focus. At the test at his hand, so
Daniel:it's funny because it's yeah, I get where he's coming from, but then at the same time, I'm like. Okay, she's having a good time. I can hear right. So I cannot wait to hear the story with the details. Yes. And I'm just play by play. I'm like a little boy on Christmas morning, it's just can't wait to open his present because I know when they're done. I'm going to, yeah, so I get to go home with her. Yes. Yeah. Here are the fun details and everything. So yeah, I like same room. I don't mind different rooms. I'm good either or, as long as I know, like my wife is safe and having a good time. And that comes with the trust in her partner too yes, that's why I like the getting to know someone through the messaging apps because you get to know, make sure everyone's on the same page and then you're like, okay I'm going to give this person consent or not give her Permission can consent, but I can trust this person to show my good time the time she deserves
Mo:yeah, isn't that a beautiful thing? Exactly. Absolutely. Very blessed. Yeah. Yeah, Absolutely good
Daniel:All so I think this wraps it up. So we have our Twitter account. It's let's be open podcast on Twitter. And then my wife and I's profile on Cassidy is curious couple 24. And again, this might come as a shock to you, but we are not professionals. When it comes to these topics. So take it with a grain of salt. I know. And we're also not professionals at electronics and podcasting. So I, we did get a lot of feedback and I'm working on different settings with my mic. So hopefully this time it sounds better. If not, it's back to the drawing board, but we appreciate everyone's listening on the first episode. And. Again, we're, the way I can see it, we're only going to get better. Yes. Let me see. Oh, and then we're going to be making a a community page on Cassidy. So look out for that and it'll be nice to hear from you guys. So if you. Get a chance, message us on, or you can mention at my Cassidy profile, again, CuriousCouple24, or on Twitter.
Mo:Yes, please. All feedback is welcome, both positive and negative, because we get to learn and to grow and to get better. And we're here to serve you guys. We definitely want to help educate you and, give you the pointers that we learned the hard way.
Daniel:Yeah. And real quick, shout out to our two listeners in Germany whoever you are, yeah, this is an international podcast, so
Mo:after the second one, dude, isn't that crazy after the first one, actually. Yeah, that's crazy.
Daniel:All right. So I think that's going to wrap it up for this Friday night until next time, we'll see you later.
Mo:Sounds good. Thank you, sir. Bye.