Do You Like to Watch?

Do you like to watch or be watched? And is there ever jealousy about watching a partner with someone else? Hear the answers to that and more as D and Monet share some stories and insight into the challenges (and how to succeed) in watching your partner while in the lifestyle

Transcript

Daniel: 0:38

Good evening and welcome to introducing Let's Be Open podcast. I am Monet and I am here with my handsome partner, D. Hey D, how's it going? Hello. How's it going? I'm doing great. How was your holiday? Pretty good. I had work in the morning and then, um, the family came over. We hosted this year. It was a lot of work and planning by my wife, getting the house ready and doing the cooking. And, but everything, came together. And we, it was a good, yeah, good time. How about yours? Yeah. Mine was really good. Family, of course, just like you. I did not host. One of my daughters hosted for the first time, so it was nice. Very busy day. I babysat the grandkids in the morning and then in the afternoon they came home and started prepping and we had what I consider was a late dinner. We didn't eat till like around 6 30 ish, but food was fantastic. It was really good. Yeah, it was a nice time. Yeah. So the question lots to be grateful for, have you and a ever had a played on Thanksgiving? Have you ever gone to a Thanksgiving party? Never. I figured that would be like the worst holiday because. I, I'm still feeling the effect from yesterday. I was like, today I'm like, I cannot eat another bite. And, thinking about I was trying to get into the headset to do this podcast tonight. And I'm like, I did not feel sexy. I did not feel confident, which I guess we'll talk about in a minute. But yeah, so I just figured this is the worst. Holiday, maybe weekend to set up like a play date or go to an event. Yeah, like I said, we've never played on Thanksgiving. However, just today, since you brought it up, I did schedule a play date for tomorrow. Which will be Saturday, the Saturday after Thanksgiving. That's good. You got 48 hours to get back on track. It's not the day after. Yes. Where I'm looking like a turkey too. No, you look beautiful. You know that. You're so sweet. Thank you. Thank you. Anyway. Hey, I'm really excited about tonight's episode So basically it's going to be how to overcome the challenge of watching your partner with others That's a pretty loaded topic and I think we're gonna have a good discussion but before that I think you have Our key party question, right? Am I right? Yes. I picked the key as we were setting up for tonight's episode. Okay. And not sure if it's a good one, Hey we're learning as we go along and I've surprised you before. Sometimes you thought a topic wasn't gonna go well, and then you're like, oh, it came out really good. Do you leave your ring on, your wedding ring on when playing or do you take it off? On. On. It's always on. Cause I had a discussion with somebody and they take it off. In the lifestyle. Yes. Which I thought was very interesting. How long have they been in the lifestyle? I think they're relatively new, like they've been searching for maybe the past few months, but had like about two to three play partners. Okay. So they're fairly new then. What was their rationale for taking it off? Her and her husband play separate. So you know, I think that has something to do with it. lIke when they have an agreement, so when she has permission to find play partners and when she got home she's together with him. I think that has something to do with it. We really didn't get in depth, but I thought that was an interesting. I'm so nosy. I'd be like, I would be asking all the questions. Okay. Why, yeah. Why are you hiding your wedding ring? Why are, or are you hiding your marital status or interesting? Yeah. It's never even occurred to me not to wear it. So believe it or not, I don't wear a red wedding ring. Period. Yeah, I don't. It's something that jewelry, I just have a hard time wearing it 24 7. My wife and I had a talk before we got married and she understood she didn't take it personal and, she trusts me. So I, yeah, I never, I tried to, but it just Yeah, I just was too irritating. I just was I can feel it on Finger throughout the day and I could not stop focusing. I am maybe I have sensory issues. I don't know but Yeah, so well, here's one for you I you probably didn't know this but a does not wear a wedding ring on his finger What he does is he has a wedding ring and he wears it Around his neck on a chain daily on the daily that's what he does on the daily now for a special occasion when we go to a wedding or some type of family event, then he'll wear it, but on his finger, but on the daily, it's on. A chain around his neck because yeah, same thing. It bothers him. He's doing lots of different things and he doesn't want to, for him to lose it cause he's lost two now. So he says, okay, how can we avoid this? So yeah, that's what he does. He wears it on a chain. Now, has he come clean each time, has he Honey, I lost my wedding ring, or did you try to replace it, and then oh. No, he did come clean, yeah. I have to hand it to him. He's quite honest, that's that's what you want in a partner. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, for sure. Definitely in the lifestyle. All right. So tonight's topic, this is a topic that you picked out. I did. Yes, I did. So where did this question come from? I'm curious. We met we've met recently a few brand new ish couples. One was like within three years, I believe the other was. A month or something. So a couple of newbie couples and both women did express the hesitancy to see their partner, to watch their partner with another woman. And so it got me thinking because I was able to share a little bit about, yep, I know exactly how you feel. I know what you're thinking. Didn't delve too much into it because it was, a first meet meeting. And so we were all over the place in our conversation, but just to let them know, Hey, I've been there. I know what that's like. And so I thought, Oh, this would be a good podcast topic because there's a lot to unpack there. Yeah. Yeah. That is when you first, get into this, there's all kinds of emotions that you're processing, one's excitement, one is happiness, joy, but then there is a little bit of jealousy. I don't care who you are. It's a human. Yeah. Human reaction. So I was thinking about this and our first time, so we did have the conversation and I was curious when the time came, we were going to play with our first couple that we met how I was going to react. Cause you don't know until it happens. And something happened that caught me off guard and we never talked about, and that was We played in separate rooms, so I remember we were at their apartment and we already knew the plan was it's going to be a soft swap because this was our first time. This is their first time and I just remember Him taking the lead, him and my wife going off into the bedroom. Now we did have the an agreement that Hoover had the bedroom. The door was going to be open. And now I did feel a little bit jealous when they went off together. But as far as seeing her and seeing both of them in action. That never really crossed paths to years later. To be honest, I was thinking about this, you're probably not going to believe me. I think you and A were the first ones where we actually played in the same room. Oh, really? Yeah, we were, this was an honor. This was, so we played with that couple quite a bit and it was always they became regulars, right? I remember you saying that a little bit. Yes. Yeah. Yeah for a short time up until they started having problems, but Yeah Yes, I never really got to experience that at first at the beginning, not saying that we were seasoned vets, but we already, jumped into the pool and I was used to my wife being with somebody else. So when it was time, when the first time we did play in the same room I didn't have any Jealousy, I couldn't say Now did you, was that something you wanted to see? A little bit, yeah. Okay, so you were at least curious about it. Yeah. How about your partner? How about your wife? Did she want to see you with others? I don't, me personally, no, but one of the things she gets off on or actually not gets off on, that's probably like the wrong, that she enjoys, is that she sees the look of excitement with the, basically the, if my partner's having a good time. If she sees that my partner's having a good time in the moment with me, then, she feeds off that. Nice. Yeah. But there is one highlight though. We did play with a couple and there is these hot tubs you can rent by the hour. They're private. They're up in Pomona. They're not there anymore. Yeah. Yeah. But we went there with this couple and it was nice, we, cause it's private, so you don't have to worry about being seen. We brought some drinks, some snacks, and we were hanging out, went in the hot tub, everything was going good. And then we wind up switching partners and played. And I just remember. That I'm sitting on the edge of the hot tub. My partner is going down on me and I look across the hot tub and sitting on the edge and her partner was going down on her. And we just make eye contact and smile. And that was a freaking awesome moment. And that's probably one of the highlights, if not the highlight of this swinging journey. That's great. Very good. I have a story similar to that, which I will get to much later. But yeah, I have to say that for me, watching my partner has been quite a journey. It's been very multi layered and because I definitely started out very resistant to watching. And basically some of my thoughts were, what if he falls in love with someone else? What if she does something better than I do? What if she has a better body? All these what ifs that I played in my mind that I was questioning about, so how did I learn to overcome? Which really what are negative thoughts. So the way that I did that, it was, step by step and different steps took different amounts of time, right? So I'm just basically trying to condense this information that's taken me roughly 12 years to work through. I'm trying to condense it down, but I would say the first thing is that it was something that I wanted to overcome. So it was a choice. I had a choice to make. Do I want to do this? Do I not want to do this? And so I did decide, yes, it's something that I wanted to overcome. The second thing that I did is, and this is what I encourage other people to do, is to look at the reality of your relationship. So what's the overall condition of your relationship? Is it generally healthy? Does your partner treat you well on the daily? Do you feel appreciated and valued? If those things are in place, then you can move forward. But if you have, major deficiencies in the relationship on the daily, then you likely should not be in the lifestyle. Because you need to focus on strengthening your own relationship first before you consider adding. Others, because as that's a complicated thing. Does that make sense? I'm curious. Yeah. I'm curious. So like, how did you take that next step from accepting this and, okay, I'm going to take that step forward to seeing him with another partner because it's one thing to process it, but to actually, take that first step and actually do it is another. Absolutely. I agree. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. One of the things I wanted to share tonight is there's a difference between tolerance and acceptance and I had a Former co worker who became a friend older gentleman really nice guy very intelligent And he broke it down to me in a very simple way Basically, he said tolerance is when we look at something and go that again Versus acceptance, we look at something and say, Oh, okay, and there's no emotional reaction. There's no disturbance in the forest, if you will, it just is. And so we are able to accept it. And so I definitely started out with that again, when I would be approached by my partner, he would express that he was interested in, playing with someone else or seeing someone else. And so early on in the relationship, when I started easing forward, because I knew that I wanted to explore this lifestyle, I would grant verbal permission for aid to go out on a date with someone else. But when he would return, I would treat him As if he had been cheating, meaning I was, my attitude was, don't touch me, just go take a shower. I don't want to hear anything. So again, I even went so far as to say to him, actions have consequences. So I find it very hard to believe, but I believe you. Yes, exactly. Next time you see him, you can ask him. He will confirm everything I'm telling you and probably add more. Okay. So all this to say is that if I, if that's where I started from, but yet you're sitting here in front of me saying you find that hard to believe again, I put in work and it wasn't just one type of work. I did a lot of different work. Oh, but before I move on, here's the kicker is that. I was already seeing other people and I didn't have any negative consequences. So that's the kicker. How come I could do that but I was having issues with my partner? Maybe because A was a little bit more experienced than you at the time. A lot more. Yeah, a lot more. So I'm sure he had partners where he had a chance to process all this already. I'm just assuming. I'm not really sure. But. 100 percent right. No, but I guess you're like, I think I've mentioned this on another previous episode, like for the first time, uh, hearing my wife make different sounds, a little bit louder and finding out like, what was that about? And then, like I said, I had two options and get upset. I did get jealous. I'm not gonna lie, but at the same time I wanted to know what had happened. And so therefore, I. And I decided to talk to her about it. She explained you two have very different techniques when it comes to oral skills. And this is what he did that I like. And I'm like let me try it. Let me see if I can be a better lover. Because you take this opportunity to be, to learn, to become a better lover for your partner. They might like you had a choice. Yeah. You had a choice to stay stuck in your jealousy and let that ruin the experience and create drama or whatever, or, okay, yes, I feel jealous noted, but I love my partner. I want to grow and be a better lover. Maybe I can mimic that. And in your case, you were able to learn something and enhance your relationship moving forward. Exactly. That's a great thing. So anyway, what I was going to say too, like I said, so I was already seeing others without any negative consequences. So basically a set the example for me. And then for me, I can't tell you really how much. Time went by, but what I do know is that I was watching a introduced us to a woman named Esther Perel. I don't know if you've ever heard of her. I think I've mentioned her before on previous podcasts, but she had a Ted talk. That's very famous. This Ted talk made her famous and you can look her up. It's called Rethinking Infidelity, a talk for anyone who's ever loved. And I can tell you since the first time I listened to her pod, that particular podcast, I've probably listened to it 20 times because there's so many great nuggets. And it's not lifestyle focused. It's a talk for anyone who's ever loved. So pretty much that's all of us, right? And she also does have a separate podcast that is couples related and that one's called, where do we go from here? So if anybody has an opportunity to listen to that first TED talk by her, I think you're going to learn a lot. And that's where I got my inspiration or my acceptance of embracing the lifestyle. Because she talks about the divorce rate in this country and just the American approach to marriage and marriage in general. Anyway, it's very interesting. If you have an opportunity, look it up. And then again, like I said, her podcast, where do we go from here, which is definitely couples focused. And so she talks couples through. Different types of issues. So she's very insightful. She's a therapist by trade. And then the other book that I read, which I've mentioned before, I know numerous times is the ethical slut, so all of those things help me to work on my jealousy, help me to stop. deflecting onto my partner and being focused on what he said, what he didn't do, whatever the case may be, and look inside of myself. Why am I bothered by these things? What is it triggering inside of me? At the time when I experienced jealousy and it was negative and created drama, I didn't know how to handle it. And then we finally had an incident where a woman came into our life that we both really liked and Because of my own insecurity, that person is no longer around. But like we said before, I was able to do the work and look at, my jealousy and my insecurity. So those were all the factors that helped contribute to moving me forward. There was another There were so many different things going on, some simultaneously, some right after the other. We had met this other woman and she was actually both A and I. So we met this other woman who was into both A and myself. And... I'm not sure if it was the fact that she was bisexual and maybe that made me feel more comfortable because she was a single gal. And I actually wanted A to go have his experience with her, which he did. And after that first experience with her, when he came back, there wasn't drama. I didn't, I wasn't upset. I wasn't. There was, a side issue where there was some miscommunication about what time he was going to be home, but that was a miscommunication. It wasn't drama because of his interaction with her and that was fine. thAt was the one that, that stood out for me. And then I had an experience with her separately and that was good. And then we did finally have a threesome with her. And there was this one particular moment for me, and this is going to be explicit for our podcast. So I am on the bed laying down and she's down on me and A is behind her, fucking her and he and I lock eyes. And this is relates to your story that you just shared about being in the hot tub. We lock eyes. And in that moment, this person. It was a conduit connecting my partner and I, and that is the mind blowing part because we're taught our whole life no bad. It's going to ruin your relationship, yada, yada, yada. Yet that was not my experience that has not been my experience. This person who was a great person, connected. Drew our relationship closer because we had a shared experience. It's mind blowing, right? First of all, I just want to say apologize everyone for Mona using the f word Hey, take care of this Okay. Let me ask you,'cause I was thinking of something today. Has there ever been a time where you didn't want a, to see you with another partner? I don't think so. I'm I'm an exhibitionist, so I like an audience. there is I don't think so. It was about like they want to say. A year and a half ago, and we dabbled in to polyamory my wife had a play partner and, she told me one night Hey, look, we're meeting on a regular basis, which I already knew about, but she's See, I'm good for now as far as meeting anybody else. So if you want to meet somebody and, connect with them, you're more than welcome to. And I came in it still happens like a few, maybe like a month or two down the road, I came in contact with an old friend and we started connecting and one night she came over and we were spending some time together, just the two of us with my wife. Hold on for a second. Did she know that you were open? Yes. Oh, okay. So you, that was shared early on? Everything was out in the open. Both parties knew and I, we went into the room and we started playing. I guess she would. Be considered my play partner. And we started getting a little intimate and then off of a sudden the door opens and it's my wife and she's down to her bra and panties and she comes under the bed with us. And at that moment I was like, holy crap, this is, first it's hot, but then too, it's I felt exposed just because I was like, I was the only guy between two gorgeous women. And and like I said, a little insecurity started to, set into place, but I quickly got over that, but yeah, and then just my role with my wife and her. Play partner back then was they have to send me maybe a video clip or a picture. So yeah, so that was, that's and that, that lasted maybe for the summer. So it wasn't a lot of polyamory, but Like I said, we have a little taste of it, but that's the only time I ever felt like exposed out there. Never really had that that feeling as far as me personally, what do you think that exposure was about? Did you feel like the kid that got caught with his hand in the cookie jar? Was it that type of exposure or something else? I think so, to be honest. Cause I felt like, oh my God, I wasn't. Because usually, my wife's when I play with somebody else, my wife's playing with somebody else, and the same room or the next room next door. And my mind's focused on my partner, but now it was like making out with this woman. And my wife is like on the bed, just like watching. And, she's getting turned on by this, but I'm like, Yeah. That was like a little taboo for me. Yeah. And so it was like I said, it was a fun experience looking black that I, that we got to experience that. But it was, like I said, it was just interesting because again, that was like, I felt like I was like, that's the only thing I can explain it. It was like, I was exposed. Yeah. And then as far as the mental part of my wife, just mainly watching, she did play she did participate in the play, but for the most part she just sat there and just watched. And again, it comes back to a decision, right? You have this reaction internally, Oh my goodness, I'm exposed. And you could have easily gotten stuck in that. feeling and let it ruin the evening, but instead you just, you made a different decision and realize, holy crap, this is every man's true come true. You made, yeah, you made that great decision. And then everyone was able to relax and enjoy themselves. And your wife got what she wanted, which was to watch and participation when she wanted to, but there was really no pressure for her to participate. Yeah. She was enjoying the show and which is interesting because our first threesome with another girl it was I that thought never crossed my mind But I think because that was it was so early on nerves and everything else that comes along with, being a beginner or on my mind. So not that I say I didn't enjoy myself, but there's a lot more than it would have been differently back then. Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Another thing that I wanted to share in regards to, working through my obstacles, my aversion to watching my partner is, yeah, I referenced the fact that I was already playing with other partners and then I would return home. And of course, a being the manly man that he is, give me all the dirt. I want the play. I play. How did this happen? How did that happen? Who initiated? Yada. And. In the beginning, early on, I was like, we did stuff, like sexy stuff. We kissed. I was very vague, very dodgy based on that, he would ask me then to record, so at least he could have an audio, um, that helped him a lot. That's pretty standard among husbands. Yes. LS husbands. Yes. No, do you think you could have, no, do you think you couldn't like. Share details because you were nervous on how he would take it. I think that was a lesser factor because he had already demonstrated to me that he was not judgmental of me, by allowing me to have these experiences, not only allowing me, but encouraging me and even finding. Potential dates for me. He still does that. He still will see something. Oh, I think you'll like him. Check this out and let me know what you think. And if you're interested, one of us can contact, so on and so forth. And that's just, he's a good wingman to have around. Great man. For sure. Got to hang out with him more often. wE keep trying anyway, but yeah, so he's a great wingman and after experiencing that for so long, really years, he could probably better tell you how many years, but certainly wasn't, it was more than one, more than four or five, over and, listening to Esther and reading the ethical slud and doing this work on myself. Coming and then seeing him lead the way by not being judgmental of me. I finally said to myself, wait a second. My partner does so much for me. He wants to do this thing. Don't I want to return that favor to him? That's the least I can do for everything that he does for me. Let him have this experience. Let him enjoy himself. I even hate to say, let him enjoy himself, watch him enjoy himself. He's going to be happy seeing him happy makes me happy. So what? Is the problem. Have you ever just watched them not participate? You just watched? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I have. I'm curious. That's fairly new, A new occurrence for us. Yeah. I'm curious, how long would you say all this took from when you started the lifestyle to where you accepted all this? Like accepting, watching him play with somebody else? Honestly. A good 10 or 12 years. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Keep in mind also that some years we did absolutely nothing lifestyle related. I know for sure there was at least three years where we did nothing because of different things that were happening in our life at that time and family issues, yada. So it wasn't like we were going to parties every week or even every month. There were some years we went once or twice a year, then the past few years, as our relationship has gotten healthier, again, starting point, the solid relationship as our relationship got healthier, we came to terms and work through issues that we needed to work through. Then we were free to. Attend more parties, meet more people, be more open to learning, watching the videos, reading the books, having not only watching the videos and reading the books. That's a great starting point, for an individual, but then with your partner to discuss what you've watched, what you've read, asking them, Hey, I heard this. What was your take on that? And again, you're building your relationship, building your rapport, building your security, your loyalty, your commitment, your devotion, and then you're able to be free to enjoy the openness of the lifestyle. Absolutely. And I will say this, if you're new to the lifestyle or if you're thinking about getting into the lifestyle I think the worst thing you can do is keep all this stuff inside you. The moment you experience jealousy or you have any insecures, open up to your partner because the longer you hold it in, the more it's just going to explode when you let it all out. I have luckily, and I think because we don't have a lot of experience, we haven't seen that up close. But we've heard stories from other friends, other couples that we were playing with this other couple and the other. Female had some issues and they got into a fight, yeah, so just be careful. Yeah, absolutely. What you said is key. The more we suppress something, the more power we give it. Once we bring it to light, once we bring it out into the open, everybody can deal with it. It's on the table. Let's talk about this. What can we do? How can we address it? Who needs to adjust? How can we both adjust? aGain, simply the rules of, or the mechanics of working on a relationship, whether you're in the lifestyle or not. Again, it comes down to doing the work. Are you interested in doing the work? Do you want to do the work, and see what happens when you do it? Exactly. All right. Was there anything else you wanted to add? Yeah, I think I wanted to talk a little bit about it's very easy to, I think you alluded to it earlier on to imagine these scenarios in your mind, right? Yeah, absolutely. Discuss them with your partner, but it's not until you actually go through with it and yeah, it can be scary It can be completely frightening, to wonder like I was saying Early when we first started what if he falls in love? What if she's better blah blah all these thoughts that we have in our mind We disempower them by bringing them to light and by actually having the experience, just like if you want to learn to swim, you can study swimming, you can watch swimming films, videos, read books, but it's not until you jump into the water and start. With your arms and legs that you're going to learn, it's not going to be fun necessarily in the beginning. It's not going to be perfect. It may be messy. It may get ugly at times. There may be tears, who knows, depending on the situation, there can be guilt, whatever. But once you've had the experience, then you get to come back with your partner and debrief. How was that for you? What did you like? What did you not like? Do you want it to happen again? And until you have that experience, you're not going to know for sure. And even after that first experience, it may be I'm not sure if I want it to happen again. And that's okay too, but you get to decide. It doesn't mean it has to happen the next day. Maybe down the road, everyone's journey is different, I grew up very conservative and so I did not have much experience at all growing up and so it wasn't until I got into this lifestyle with my current partner I was 45 so I had a lot of Catching up to do, if you will, and a lot of deconstructing of what I thought I wanted my life to be versus what it actually was going to be. Does that make sense? exPectations of other people that were put on me, but what did I really want? I had to figure out what I wanted as a woman, as an adult, and again, it's about introspection. And that takes time and effort. It can be done. Now, maybe if I had a different upbringing, if I had been a wild child and had a lot of experience, maybe it wouldn't have taken me so long to get where I am now. But who knows this is my journey and I just want to share with other people because I know I've met a lot of people that have my upbringing that are in this lifestyle and we, exchange stories and stuff. It's very interesting. Yeah, it is. I just can't picture jealous, conservative money. I just, that's not who I know. Yeah. Let's see, it can be done. It can be done. sO I want to encourage people. On that note, where do you and A have planned coming up for the month of December? What do we, you mean lifestyle, right? Of course. I know we're invited, we're actually having dinner with a couple from the writing group. It'll be our first one on one dinner, so that should be nice, looking forward to that. Yeah, that's a little intimate. Yeah, so it'll be nice. And then I know Swing Hearts is having... Dirty Santa, right? Something like that and we will be going because it's on my birthday Yeah, birthday so we already have our babysitter and Trying to figure I think we'll just probably get ready here at the house because if we're going like five minutes away from yeah And then yeah, and then the, yeah, the kids will be out of the house. So we'll definitely come back and play. So yeah, looking forward to that. That'd be fun. A fun night. Very good. Alright, so I think that's it for me. That's all I have tonight. Okay. Alright. Again, you can follow us you can email us at letsbeopenpodcasts at gmail. com. And then our Twitter handle is... Put that up real quick Let's be open pod. That's l e t s b e o p e n t o d And again ask us your questions any feedback About the these shows would be greatly appreciated and Yeah, so As long as no one complains, we're going to be making them so I think this is what you said our eighth episode. It's our eighth episode All right, so from monet and I peace out