Our lovely guest Kate opens up about her past battle with an eating disorder and body image distress, the courage it took to step onto the path of recovery, and the transformative power of empathy and patience they experienced. We navigate the deep waters of emotional healing, discussing the importance of ditching harmful coping mechanisms and finding healthier ways to fulfill emotional needs.
Today's conversation is an empowering look at recovery, learning to trust our body, and intuitive eating, where we challenge the societal norms that dictate when and what we should eat. Kate recounts the liberating journey towards trusting, acknowledging the inner work required to face the fears and insecurities that surface along the way, laying down a blueprint for others to follow.
Join us in honoring Kate's inspiring journey to self-love and the courage it represents, a beacon of hope for anyone stepping onto the path of recovery and self-discovery.
Our lovely guest Kate opens up about her past battle with an eating disorder and body image distress, the courage it took to step onto the path of recovery, and the transformative power of empathy and patience they experienced. We navigate the deep waters of emotional healing, discussing the importance of ditching harmful coping mechanisms and finding healthier ways to fulfill emotional needs.
Today's conversation is an empowering look at recovery, learning to trust our body, and intuitive eating, where we challenge the societal norms that dictate when and what we should eat. Kate recounts the liberating journey towards trusting, acknowledging the inner work required to face the fears and insecurities that surface along the way, laying down a blueprint for others to follow.
Join us in honoring Kate's inspiring journey to self-love and the courage it represents, a beacon of hope for anyone stepping onto the path of recovery and self-discovery.
Okay, thank you so much for being here, I'm so excited to dive into this Um mentioned.
Speaker 2:I think this would be a really helpful way for people who are nervous about starting the recovery and starting that journey with food and body to learn a little bit more about someone who was also very nervous about starting. Like, we all are always a little bit skeptical, so just to give them some encouragement and hope for their Okay. So I will start with the question yeah, how would you describe your overall experience worth with working together and starting your relationship with food and body?
Speaker 1:I remember, when I reached out to you, I was at a really desperate point and I was really, um, I wanted to do the work, but I didn't know how it would. How, how like, if, whoever I was like what?
Speaker 2:I'm going to start over again.
Speaker 1:I wanted to do the work. I was nervous that I would wouldn't find a good fit, right, um, and so I'm going to read your question over here, because I tend to talk a lot. My overall experience with you was incredibly positive because of the warmth and the empathy that you showed me. We took it at my pace. I never felt pushed. I didn't feel like I had to have all the answers, and I even think to this day, five years later, maybe I don't still have all the answers, but that's okay, because I think relationships with food are incredibly complex. So I would say our overall experience was incredibly positive, and there are things that we talked about five years ago that I actually still ruminated. I think ruminate through my brain from time to time.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's awesome. I'm so glad you feel that way. I think that's super important for your journey. It is your journey, it's your autonomy. You have to feel like it is so complex and there's so many pieces. It's incredibly complex.
Speaker 1:I mean, when we met, I had been bulimic for already 14, 15 years at that point. So I was like in deep, I was in trench and that was like my life. And I was pregnant on top of it and really wanting to start, you know, changing my relationship with food because I saw down the line what that would look like for my kids. Um, and you know, I think there was a part of me, and there always will be, that wants a sense of freedom, always. I, you know, I want to walk naturally through this life without feeling so obsessed with something. That's very normal.
Speaker 2:It's just normal to eat, right yeah, absolutely, and it's such a brave thing to do to like reach out support let some someone in, yeah or guidance, because yeah, it scary. You have this deep and complex relationship with food and body image and everything that makes that up, so you have to feel safe and comfortable to to take all the little steps and so yeah. I'm grateful that you let me in and gave me the opportunity.
Speaker 1:So I was grateful to you that it was for me, that we were a match, a fit. That was incredible, even though we were you know, you were in Colorado and I'm in, you know, on the east coast. That was huge for me and it was like I felt so lucky, yeah that was great for me.
Speaker 2:Good same same here. So thank you so much for sharing that um. I'm curious to hear a little bit about what you know. You said when you came to me, it was a, you were in deep, you were, um, you know struggling for. Said when you came to me, it was a, you were in deep, you were, you know, struggling for 14 years and I don't remember now if you were, if you were some people before that or what you know you were my first entree like into any kind of eating disorder recovery work.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. I mean, you did amazing for never seeing someone before I'm very black and white.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of us that have those, you know, obsessive, compulsive or like addictive tendencies were like all in or we're not. And I was all in. I'm always all in when I commit to something.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, you totally were, so. I'm curious with coming from such like um. Just yeah, 14 years, it's a lot of time before to then working with it, like you know, to to um, to our journey together, what, what. How does that look like before and after? Before and now?
Speaker 1:you know it's been five years, which is a long time. Um, what is? Are you asking me sort of what my eating looks like now? Having what?
Speaker 2:was your prior to seeking support and starting me. What did that look like and how did that transform?
Speaker 1:I think prior to seeking to, prior to seeking support, I was happy to just let myself spiral um Right, I was happy to sort of indulge in all like the morbid, like love for my bulimia, like just really just self-sabotage and be destructive. I think when we met I saw an opportunity to start to love myself right and take care of myself. I thought that I was taking care of myself in my own sick way by binging right. I was meeting like an emotional need and really like sort of placating my anxiety. That wasn't taking care of myself. And I think when we met, where where I saw a shift is that what I was doing wasn't taking my care of myself at all. I mean really it was.
Speaker 1:I remember expressing to you how much time I wasted. I remember saying this like very vividly being like Jamie, I just I waste so much time. And you would ask me what else would you rather do if you weren't spending hours in your car binging? And that was something that really struck me. It's like, well, how can I take care of myself and really meet my needs? It's not for food, for food that's not doing anything. It's really distracting. It's not distracting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I mean that's awesome. I think that it's. It's really easy to continue to, you know, be in these um, comfortable behaviors that are not comfortable at all you know, I remember all our conversations of like it's so distressed, it brings so much distress, so much planning, so much planning, so much mental energy around like what?
Speaker 1:what does my schedule look like this week? When am I going to be able to do this? How's this going to make me feel later in the day? Um, am I going to get to? You know, that was like something I would do in my downtime, but like it didn't feel like downtime, it just felt like something that I had to like tick off the box Right. It just felt it didn't feel like it was literally wasn't nourishing. I mean, it was just taking for me. Taking, taking, taking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then changing that behavior like is very, very uncomfortable, very, you know, to start to like I'm going to trust my body and trust food and get uncomfortable and you know, have this food but not use my behavior, or like just it's so uncomfortable because your mind is wired to feel safe in those behaviors. But you know you made those choices to get uncomfortable and do things differently, and I still do.
Speaker 1:I think that's something that's really important, especially because we're talking about this and you're recording it. Those fears, they don't go away, but I know that everything I put in my mouth is not going to kill me. It's not. I'm not going to balloon and you know, one of my biggest fears and we'll talk about body image was that I would suddenly present in a bigger body and would I be comfortable with that? And I remember telling you no. And having been pregnant and had three kids, I've seen my body change a lot and even postpartum, my body's very different, part of my body's very different, and that's okay, like it's okay. I'm not. You know, there's nothing wrong with how I, with what I look, like there's really. This is just a vessel to like carry around my brain Right and my heart like my, my love and my emotion, like I'm just. I really am so much more than my physical presence. Yeah, yeah, okay with that, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's such a transformation for your relationship with your body and your relationship with food and so much of that like that is all due to the the work that you've done to get uncomfortable and to start rewiring those thoughts and to then have different beliefs, because sitting that discomfort then helps you to understand oh, I'm, I'm safe when I have this food. These fears don't come true. Oh, I'm still okay, You're not your thoughts and feelings right.
Speaker 1:You're not. You are not your thoughts and feelings like really and truly. You're the core of your being, is not any, any, any thought or feeling that you have.
Speaker 2:It's so much deeper right, yeah absolutely, and you practice it over and, over, and, over and over again.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, all the time getting a little bit less uncomfortable yeah, yeah, to this day, to this day, I still sometimes have to talk, sort of coach myself through decisions I make around eating, and that's okay. Um, that's fine, because I still, you know, I'm committed to doing my work as much as I can. Right, you're choosing to live with my tea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. You're choosing respect. You're choosing to take care of yourself, which, again, you're under, and you understand. This is what taking care of myself is. Before, what I was doing was not, you know, it was maybe served you for a while to take care of yourself, but this is no longer what I understand to be taking care of myself and nourishing my life and the way that I want to, right. So that's, that's awesome. It's just, it's so good to hear I'm so proud of you. That's work. I know I've been. You know being through it, helping people through it. It's really hard and that's great that you put that. You invested in yourself in that way and that's great that you put that you invested in yourself in that way. So thank you for sharing that. So what tools did and strategies and like when you think about our work together? I know it's been a bit, but a hot minute, yeah it's been a hot minute.
Speaker 2:What do you think that you took, like, what are the things that you feel like you took away the most? Do you remember anything that was like, like I still this thing.
Speaker 1:Yes, there's one thing, five years later, that will be seared in my brain and it might sound super corny to you, but I remember saying to you look, jamie, like, here's the deal. Like you know, I'm a very scheduled, regimented person. Like, right, I thrive on certainty and I get very like out off kilter if I don't have a routine. And I said to you, like, if I eat breakfast and then it's like noon, and let's say like, or like, maybe I eat breakfast and then it's noon and I'm not hungry, like what do I do? Or like, maybe one day I don't want breakfast, but then it's like, like, maybe I eat breakfast and then it's noon and I'm not hungry. Like what do I do? Or like, maybe one day I don't want breakfast, but then it's like 10 30. Do I eat lunch? Like what happens? And I remember you saying so vividly. You said, kate, I'm eat when you're hungry.
Speaker 2:Yes, I remember that.
Speaker 1:I, you, I would.
Speaker 1:You would think that, like you know, you had just unlocked the secrets of the world to me, because that's something that, to this day, to this day, I give myself permission to eat when I'm hungry.
Speaker 1:I don't care what the clock says, um, and maybe, like it's 10 30 in the morning and I don't want a traditional, like it's a weird time of day, maybe I'll have, like you know, not a breakfast food, but I remember just having such stringent rules around timing and what foods I would pick during that time of day, because it was lunchtime or dinner time or whatever.
Speaker 1:And I remember saying this to my husband being, like Jamie says, I should just eat whenever I'm hungry, because we also do family dinners at 530 to this day, every day, and there are some times where it's 430. And even though I'm preparing a meal for all of us, I got to eat, so I eat, and then I sit down at the table at an hour later and if I want to have more, I'll have more. If I'm not ready, it's there for when I'm like, when I want to have some. That was huge for me. Like that is the reason why I jumped on this call was to tell you that thank you for giving me permission to eat at whatever time of day it is, absolutely Whatever food it is that I want, because that literally.
Speaker 1:I don't think I ever thought to give myself permission to do that, and I needed to hear it from someone else?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. And you, you gave yourself that permission, right, like it's, it's, it's so, and that's such hard permission to give ourselves because, um, the rules you have, you know so your rules. I remember having this exact conversation way more than once, because it takes way more than one conversation, but having these, like I feel safe if I um eat it this time and this time, because I I know how my body responds, I know how my mind responds. I like that, that container, um, so starting to break those rules and being like, well, I could eat whenever and I could eat this, quote-unquote, this isn't breakfast, breakfast, right, like.
Speaker 1:I had like a turkey ground turkey quesadilla at like 11 o'clock, that's kind kind of lunchy, whatever 1030, like a week ago, with like beans and cheese. I was like that's what I wanted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, it was delicious by the way, I don't think I ever have breakfast. I think I always have lunch for breakfast. But yeah, it's. It's exactly societal rules, that um, and rules that we build around like you know, kind of this, this, this way of coping, and you broke those rules. Maybe I uh offered a what would happen if we maybe ate when we were hungry? But that's a very hard thing to do, you know, even like I'm sure listeners will be like how do I know if I'm hungry? What if you know how?
Speaker 1:it's not perfect, right? So this is not like an exact science which is still something that I, you know working on which is really to figure out like am I? Am I hungry? You know that that's my hunger cues, because my eating disorder has run for many, many years. It's still something that I'm training my brain to do, right right, and that's the thing we know.
Speaker 2:When you're talking about you when you're hungry, if you also, so there's really slight hunger cues. And also if you ate when you're talking about you when you're hungry, if you also, so there's really slight hunger cues. And if you ate when you're not hungry, yeah, okay. Can we build trust around eating? If you're not hungry, yeah.
Speaker 1:I've had to do that too. I have three kids. I have to take my son to speech pathology today at 5 30 that's when we typically eat dinner. We're going to be there for about an hour and a half, so I'm not going to be able to eat dinner. So guess what I got? To have a snack before I go. Like you, know I got a plan. I got to continue to plan, yeah.
Speaker 2:And see oh, my body's okay.
Speaker 1:Actually it's going to be okay.
Speaker 2:I'm not overly hungry and feeling out of control, but there's so much that goes into that, right, kate, like, think about it. You know, you we had to do and talk about, you know body image, work around that, because, well, what comes up behind if I eat when I'm not?
Speaker 1:hungry. What is it?
Speaker 2:what happens to my body? What happened? You know, there's just so much deep work that goes into. Yeah, it's simple to just eat when you're hungry, can't allow foods, but there's a ton of fear and coping and body image that comes up around that. That makes it really difficult for you know, I'm just thinking of listeners listening like, okay, I'll just eat when I'm hungry. I'm sure that's going to be a huge struggle.
Speaker 1:I mean, don't lie, I've done that so many times and don't get me wrong Like nine times out of 10, I'm eating when I'm physically hungry. And so I think where I find a little bit of comfort is, even though I'm like oh, I'm not like really feeling it nine times out of 10, I'm I'm eating the way I would would like to or would choose to right, it's in that little 10% where I might have to deviate from my plan. It's not consistent, and that's what I think brings me a little bit of like ease, where my my eating disorder thoughts are like oh no, oh no, Right, it's like, hey, 90% of the time you get to do exactly what you want.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really.
Speaker 1:And that's you get to make those choices. Yeah, that's awesome. And even eating when I'm not hungry is still a choice. Choice, I mean, I wouldn't want to suffer being hangry. That with three kids is not a good look.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, absolutely not a good look, absolutely, and it sounds like you know that's taking really good care of yourself. You're grounded. You're really making decisions from a grounded place of like, how can I respect myself and take care of myself? And there might be some, some pop-ups, some you know anxieties around it, but you know every time you practice that you get stronger and stronger and it is a muscle.
Speaker 1:It's a muscle that needs. It's like anything, it's like training, anything else you know we can. We can rewire our brains. It takes a lot of practice, but it's possible. And I again, full disclosure. You know I'm not a perfect human being at all, but like I show up every day for myself, yeah, and that's amazing right.
Speaker 2:You know that's what it takes showing up every day for yourself I show up every day in those moments like you really can't. It's not good to go all the way. In the future. You can create some goals, but it is what right is all those choices that you're making, which is so awesome and you've come so far and you've done such a good job.
Speaker 2:So that's so awesome. I'm really happy for you. We we touched a little bit on body image. I'm curious about you know before and where you are now with body that's maybe transformed. Maybe paint a little bit of a picture for um, because I think it would help people who maybe are like, oh gosh, I, I have a horrible relationship with body image. This will never change and that's how people you know people think this is how it's going to be like forever. So when they hear, well, I was there too, but now I'm here, it, it, it creates a lot of hope. So I'm curious about that.
Speaker 1:I think body image is as a woman. I can speak as a woman, um, and as a woman, as an elder millennial woman who was really heavily exposed to diet culture a lot, um, it's something that I think I will always struggle with. Um, when we met, I was adamant that that, like I was going to do the work, but I would I refused to see my body like in any different shape or size than it was at that time, and I was pregnant at that time, which is really ironic to me. But I remember telling you how much pride I took in, like, the exercise that I did, which I, you know, I still do. I still love to exercise, but I wasn't willing to even entertain the idea that, if I let go of some of my food rules and my body is that I've been in a bigger body, not a drastically bigger one, and I've actually even been in a smaller body at times in the last five years, if anyone can believe it. But I'm okay, no matter what, no matter how I show up, right, um, I found that I think a lot, of a lot, of my, my thoughts around body have changed because I'm a mom, right, I have a daughter specifically not that this should be gendered in any way, but I think to myself.
Speaker 1:You know, these children, um, love me, no matter how I like show up, like I mean, we can talk about my physical, about weight and height and shape, but even you could just talk about the fact that I have, you know, my hair is gross and I'm in a, you know, a ratty t-shirt. Um, I'm not looking my best, but that doesn't inherently change my worth or my value, no matter how I sort of present Yep, yep, um, I think what? What happens when you do work around eating disorders and body image, when there's time, like we're talking about when you and I met five years ago, when I look back retrospectively and think to times in the last five years where my body's been a little bit bigger or a little bit smaller. I've been no matter what, yeah, yeah, so maybe I don't feel comfortable in any given moment. That's what I said like full disclosure. I'm not perfect, maybe I don't feel the best about myself on any given day, but I'm okay, yeah, like I'm okay, and I think that's huge. That is so huge, I'm sure like.
Speaker 1:I'm okay. I don't have to love the way that I look every single day, but I'm okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's amazing. I think people hearing that are good it's going to give it gives them so much hope because there's so many people wishing I just want to be okay and to hear you know I wasn't okay. It was such a struggle always on my mind to always always on my mind. Oh, my gosh, right, right To now I'm okay. I'm okay.
Speaker 1:Such a great place that is again don't love myself every day, but I'm okay, Exactly.
Speaker 2:That's a huge. That's a huge thing. You're accepting the fluidity, you're accepting you're you're not focusing on your body like that. You're like well, I'm gonna know ways about it and that's okay you know, there's acceptance, there's fluidity, there's holding space for that, there's compassion in that.
Speaker 2:I hear the compassion that you have for your body, in that, which just is so big to get to that place. Um, I mean that is not something small. And even when you're like, well, maybe I have like more work I want to do, or I mean that is not something small. And even when you're like, well, maybe I have like more work I want to do, or maybe I want to feel this, or what you know, I think I will always have work to do Right, and that's okay, and that's okay Right.
Speaker 2:You're going to always have a body. You're always gonna have a body that's changing. We live in this society we live in you have a large history and when you started your work, I'm sure you were like, if I get to this place, that would be amazing. If I knew that was possible.
Speaker 1:And now you're there feeling that way that and practicing that I think it's also important for what it's worth is to tell people that when you start to make changes around food, that like for what it's worth, for those people that have really disordered eating, like but like I, I guess you could say that, like I did, or I, you know, I still like, right, um, that you know you would have to fundamentally like 180 everything about your diet and your lifestyle, your diet, to really, I think, enter a space where you would be so uncomfortable with your body that you would reject it outright. I mean really. I mean, for me what was important was eating the food. Yes, right, yes, it was just eating the food. I, you know I wasn't sitting there, do I don't know what I'm trying to exactly say. It was really like my whole lifestyle would have been overhauled to a point where I think I get what you're to such a degree where I'd feel so uncomfortable that I was like you know what?
Speaker 1:I don't want to do this work.
Speaker 2:Right, Exactly you, really. Yes, it does make sense. I think you're speaking to the. You know people have a huge fear that things are going to drastically change. They're going to feel so uncomfortable. Things are going to be different because they really play out all these like, really these fears of like I don't know. I don't feel like myself, right you?
Speaker 2:know, I mean you would have to just like overhaul your whole life, right, right, and that's just out of your window of tolerance. People can't do it that way. You have to take baby steps to be like I'm safe here, I'm comfortable here, I can do this to be able to, to get there. But that is such a that is such a fear. That's why some people dive, jump right into the pool and some people dip their toes and it's different for everyone. Totally. It depends on you know where you're at and everyone's journey Totally, so that that makes all the sense. I just got the 10 minute reminder that we're, that we have 10 minutes. I'm curious. So anything else that you would like people to know, to give them some hope or to share anything?
Speaker 1:you know, don't get me make me emotional, please.
Speaker 1:I don't when you enter this space and you choose yourself, um, you are giving yourself a huge gift. It doesn't feel like it in the moment. It really doesn't. It doesn't feel like the when you're, um, gonna entertain the idea of maybe changing everything, that you know that, like, you're gonna be safe, or that things could get better. They, they can, they they really can.
Speaker 1:And I remember you saying to me you know, kate, what's the what's like the worst thing that's going to happen if you give up your behaviors or bulimic behaviors. You're binging and you're purging. You know what's if you give it up, you can always. You can always. I mean really, you said you can always go back to it and you weren't wrong. Yeah, um, and I felt a lot of freedom to say you know what, kate, if you hate this so bad and you really this isn't for you, jamie's not wrong, it's not. There's nothing stopping you from going back to um, to those behaviors. But why don't just try this, try it, try it.
Speaker 1:What's the worst that can happen? Yeah, not that I would. I'm giving people permission explicitly to I cause I I do feel like a lot of my behaviors were self harming, really and truly, but it's okay to try. It's something different. I remember you saying that and that was incredibly. That gave me like the space to even entertain, to do the work right, because I have your freedom and autonomy and that and I say that to this day with everyone, cause I think you need, even for myself, exploring scary things in life in general.
Speaker 2:You have to. You owe it to yourself to experiment, but and you also have your very real protective parts and behaviors that you know you might feel the need to go back to and you don't want anyone taking that away from you. No one's you can say that so to know, like, why not? You just haven't explored this other thing and you most likely will find that, oh, this actually feels way better and feels way more protective and feels way more respectful than maybe this other thing, but it's still there for you.
Speaker 1:You can but you have to give it time. I think the one takeaway I would say is that, even five years out, there are things that I would love to tweak and, you know, make perfect. If I could, um, that might be a lifelong battle for me, or struggle, or maybe that's not the right words. I want choice, I like lifelong. We'd be making these choices for a long time.
Speaker 1:Um, but give it time. Right, like mess up, start all over again, try something different, like, if you're willing to do the work, there's no one linear way to do it. Keep at it, keep working at it. It doesn't have. You don't have to choose one route to recovery, and for me, recovery from many things has not been linear at all, and that's okay too, because if I only thought that the only way I was going to recover was to just go up, up, up, up, up, up up, I might as well have just stayed in my disordered eating forever. I've just been like you know what up up, up up. I might as well have just stayed in my disordered eating forever, right, and it's been like you know what the first time right, like that was just disheartening and discouraging, because then you think, oh, I must be failing, because I'm this is not going up, up, up, or it's not linear, it's quote, unquote.
Speaker 1:used to behave like I say today or at this moment it really is not a linear path, and that's I think that's normal, I think that's healthy, because you learn so much you really do. Yeah, like so much from from like relapsing, coming back and trying differently and tweaking it, and like evaluating. I mean right, I think it's so important to fail, I think it's so important part of it, you have to fail.
Speaker 2:I like invite people to fail.
Speaker 1:They're learning, you're not learning, you can give them all the tools, but until they sort of have that moment that like come to Jesus moment where they're struggling again and maybe they, like you know, use their behaviors and they're like you know, and then, but then you reevaluate right, tweak it yeah no-transcript.
Speaker 2:And then the part that you started with, which is investing in yourself. People have, I think, have a very hard time choosing to. Well, first of all, it's uncomfortable, but also choosing to oh, it's super uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:It's the most uncomfortable thing I've ever done. Yes, yes, absolutely, easily, easily the most uncomfortable thing I've ever done.
Speaker 2:Totally.
Speaker 1:Just getting on this, our first conversation, I was like what am I doing? Yes, why am I doing this? Am I serious right now?
Speaker 2:It's so great. You kind of you know you have to follow your discomfort. If something's making you uncomfortable, it's something to get really curious about, because that's where, like, a lot of growth happens. So I'm so glad that you invested in yourself and I think that's a great message for folks out there is. You know, it's it really, yeah, yeah, absolutely well, there's nothing to lose, really.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you hate it, then you hate it. I mean, that's not.
Speaker 2:It's maybe not the best way to leave it, but no, but it's true, like experiment, you owe yourself to experiment, if there, I mean if you've made it this far right if you've made it this far, to where you're potentially meeting with Jamie, you're in a good space to like try something out.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, If you're here, let's.
Speaker 2:Let's like walk through the store and see what happens, yeah absolutely If there's a part of you that feels strongly like what I'm doing isn't working.
Speaker 1:What I'm doing doesn't feel good and I hope especially if it doesn't feel good especially that's when I came to you because it doesn't. It wasn't at that point where it wasn't feeling good anymore.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and you owe it to yourself to listen to that part. Sometimes your, your safety parts, are like it's okay if it doesn't feel good, like I. You know, this is what feels safe. This is what feels comfortable. This is what we know. Listening to that self part that's like this doesn't feel compassionate. I am curious about something different. I want to be courageous and try that out.
Speaker 1:You know that is the curiosity and see where it leads you. You might be surprised.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Well. Thank you so much, kate. This is so helpful. I know I help people to hear this and I I'm so proud of you. It's so cool to see all the hard work obviously has paid off tremendously Very proud of you. I'm so proud of you. It's so cool to see all the hard work. Obviously it has paid off tremendously. Very proud of you. I'm very excited for people to hear it. I just really appreciate your time. Thank you, jamie, you're the best yeah it was really good reconnecting as well.
Speaker 1:So good to talk to you.