The Miscarriage Dads Podcast
A podcast dedicated to humanizing the experience of miscarriage, and normalizing dads openly talking about its impact on us as men and fathers.
The Miscarriage Dads Podcast
E27: Does Sexual Intimacy Change After Miscarriage?
Welcome to episode 27!
How do you reclaim intimacy after the heartbreak of a miscarriage? Our latest episode tackles this deeply personal and often overlooked topic, offering insights and support for couples navigating this challenging journey. We begin by addressing the emotional and physical toll a miscarriage can have on women, including feelings of guilt and a diminished sense of self-worth. We'll explore the critical role men play in providing patience and emotional support, and how mutual communication can help rebuild the connection between partners.
The episode also delves into the emotional complexities of trying to conceive post-miscarriage. Our conversation highlights how couples can retain mutual respect and love, even when faced with the anxiety and fears of another potential loss.
Finally, we explore practical ways to support and care for your partner to maintain intimacy and connection. From small gestures like a spa day to meaningful conversations and simply being present, we offer actionable advice for couples. We emphasize that true intimacy involves recognizing and honoring each other's emotions and experiences, rather than just fulfilling physical desires.
Join us for a heartfelt discussion that underscores the importance of understanding, communication, and emotional intimacy in strengthening relationships after loss.
Sincerely,
Kelly & Chris
Instagram: @themiscarriagedad
Email: themiscarriagedad@gmail.com
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What really makes you a man is when you're really able to hold your woman up during these times and truly putting her needs before yours. That is hard being able to say I will wait as long as you need because I am your man. I want to be your strength during this moment. But in the meantime, like you said, I'm going to show you how valuable you are. I'm going to show you how special you are. I'm going to make sure that you understand how much I still love you and even though because let's not pretend that women don't already feel guilty they know that you want to have sex. They know that.
Speaker 3:This is the Miscarriage Dads Podcast, the podcast humanizing the experience of miscarriage by normalizing dads podcast. My name is Kelly and I am your host.
Speaker 1:My name is Chris and I am your co-host.
Speaker 3:So today's conversation is inspired by a conversation that I was having with the last guest that we had on the podcast. This is the conversation with Elspeth. She is an actress from the podcast. This is the conversation with Elspeth. She is an actress from the UK and I asked her the question from her experience as a woman who's experienced miscarriage how would she advise men whose female partners have also experienced a miscarriage? Like? What kind of insight would she give to help guys like me and you support our female partners?
Speaker 4:There is a definite need for patience, a lot more patience than you think. If it was something that you guys were trying for, you know, we were told we'd wait a couple cycles before we try again. But even from just any kind of physical intimacy could be a struggle and you have to be patient with that because physically, physically, the toll that we go through is depending on what management of your miscarriage was. Mine was surgical, I don't think there'll be any way to describe it. So patience is so important. I know you guys are going to have needs at some point and you're going to have tensions and frustrations that you want to get out in a sexual way and sometimes just even the thought of kissing was too much. I just wanted to be held, but kissing was too far because I don't feel attractive, I don't feel healthy, I don't feel like I work, like I. Just I want to be held and that's it.
Speaker 3:The conversation that we're going to have today is how having a miscarriage changes the way that two people, a man and a woman, become intimate with each other. And so what are the facets of that, how to navigate that, and sort of exploring our own experiences to see what we can come up with as an echoing, because I don't think we need to come up with anything differently than Elspeth, but we can certainly echo the message, the deeper message that she's conveying me and amber never really had a full-on conversation about it, it was just something I could feel and the feeling was kind of mutual.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, you know, in that like for me, I was scared because that thought was playing in my mind, like what if she gets pregnant? And then, if she gets pregnant, what if we lose the baby again? Especially like just after. Those things are just running through your head.
Speaker 3:OK, so let me. Let me pause you right there, because I think saying what if she gets pregnant is surface level, and I'm glad that you followed it up. What if we lose the baby again is the deeper thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, yeah, cause that's the fear.
Speaker 3:That's the fear.
Speaker 1:Pregnancy equals loss. No longer is it like pregnancy is just oh yeah, pregnancy. Yeah, she's pregnant. Now we're going to have a baby, right? No, I don't. I don't want to go through losing the baby again. She doesn't want to go through losing the baby again. Right, you know. And now, because we have lost a child before now, my mind is open to all forms of loss.
Speaker 3:So you know. So let me ask you this If pregnancy is the surface, losing the baby is underneath the surface. What is that undercurrent? What is that deeper fear as it relates to you? Obviously there's the fear of losing the baby again At any point. Did you feel like the loss of your baby to miscarriage had less to do with Amber and more to do with your inability as a man to produce healthy sperms, or anything like that?
Speaker 1:That part never crossed my mind in terms of what my body was able to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as much as kind of more. So, what you said, what I was able to do as a man and as a father, because it is something that, even though it's completely out of your control, you still feel like it's in your control.
Speaker 3:Say more about that.
Speaker 1:Because as a father, your job is protection. As a husband, your job is protection. So now you have two situations. You have a situation where you fail as a father because you lost your child and now you fail as a husband because your wife has gone through something that is unimaginable and you don't know how to deal with that. It's hard dealing with that, and going back in willingly and doing that again puts all of that on the table.
Speaker 3:Man bro. So spot on, because for me it felt like I was the one doing this to her. Yeah, and in the strangest way, it's because we're getting it, it's because she's getting intimate with me that this is happening. It was almost like it was almost like assuming, without ever explicitly saying it. It was almost like assuming if she was doing this with somebody else they would have no problem. Therefore, conclusion I must be the problem. Wow, I don't think.
Speaker 3:I've ever quite said that, bro. That's, that's pretty deep man, holy smokes. Now let me just clarify. I'm not sitting here, you know, suggesting, suggesting that I wanted my wife to have relationships, sexual relationships, with another man. That's not, that's not at all what I was wanting or thinking about or anything like that.
Speaker 3:But for some reason that hypothetical made sense to me because it put me at the center of what was wrong. And in a deeper way, I think that was my way of trying to prevent myself from putting any blame on her, because that's the last thing I wanted to do. The last thing I wanted to do was to add more to her plate, knowing how devastating this was for her Right. So to your point of protecting in a twisted way, bro, I think that was my way of trying to protect my wife by saying you know, I must be the one who is doing this to her, because if she was doing this with anybody else, they definitely would not have had, she definitely would not have been experiencing this. It's because I'm the one who she's being intimate with. It's because I'm her husband, right? It's because I'm the man supplying the sperm that we are not able to become parents right now, and I am the one who is providing something faulty. It's not her.
Speaker 1:It's me providing something faulty that is not combining with how perfect she is. So the problem must be me out of the blue, because there are miscarriages that happen and you can kind of see that there's a reason right, um, you were in a car accident, so it's easy to place blame because you know it's the car accident or the person that that crashed into you. Um, someone hits you on the stomach or something like that, or and um, you lose the baby, there's easy blame yeah, it's easier to make the one-to-one correlation.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly, yeah, exactly, but when it's just Spontaneous. Yeah, blame has to be placed. You know, and maybe that's a part of the problem is that we feel like blame has to be placed when it is truly no one's fault. Now it's funny I'm saying it's no one's fault, right, and I'm saying it as a fact, but even now, as I say it in my heart, I'm still like, yeah, but you could have done it.
Speaker 3:You know, it sounds good that you're saying that, Chris, but yeah, but you know it's, I'll take the L on that one.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, and you think about those moments where it's like, man, she was feeling comfortable at this moment and asked for a pillow. If I just given her the pillow at the earlier or sooner or something, or anticipated, I don't know, you know, maybe if I'd like just sent her to the doctor at an earlier time instead of waiting for a full three, and you start like you said, you start blaming yourself. And you start like you said, you start blaming yourself. And then you see how that does affect intimacy. As a society, we look at men in general as these sex crazed beasts that just want sex for the just for sex, because we can't control ourselves and people don't really think about the mental side that we do have. I didn't really think about it like that until it happened, you know, and it's, it truly is this blockage of. I don't want to put her through that again and if that's the cause, I'm willing to not do this in order to spare her of that pain.
Speaker 3:And you know we've spoken about the other aspect of this before, even the loss. So, the conception aspect, right, Because before there has to be a loss, a life has to be conceived. And there were those times when it didn't last to you know, it didn't last that long. Um, when Michelle would be like hey, when Michelle would be like hey, I got this app. I'm ovulating right now. Yes, Until you know, for the next 72 hours or whatever the case is, and so within this window, I need you to do me as many times as we possibly can.
Speaker 3:And that aspect of it was also a challenge. Yeah, Because it took away the, like you said, the mental preparation. It took away the emotional connection or the emotional foreplay or desire or anything. It became very mechanical. It, like this, was a means to an end. It wasn't a matter of, you know, self-expression or expressing how much I desire my wife or anything like that, or how much she desired me. It was very much for the purpose of I'm going to do this so that you can get pregnant, so that we can become parents, and that is the clear goal.
Speaker 3:And that sort of seemed to strip all of the other emotional component, the mental component. It stripped the romance from it. Let me just put it that way it stripped the romance from it. It wasn't a oh dang girl. Ooh, you looking yo is it me, or is it because the sun is at an obtuse angle that is shining some light on you right now and you just looking fine as hell, Like you glowing right now, shorty, and you making blood rushing places that it hasn't rushed in quite a long time. You know what I'm saying and it's like hold on, girl, Are you an angel? Because you know what I mean, Like all of those cheesy lines like hey, all of my name is Will.
Speaker 1:God's will you know?
Speaker 3:what I mean it took out like the desire to want to buy flowers, the desire to you know, when we wake up in the morning, to make sure that the room is nice and tidy up so that when she comes home from work and when I come home from work, we're not spending time doing x, y and z and we can, like you know it took away the hey, I'm thinking about you. You know, throughout the day text messages or you know sending little memes or reels on ig or whatever, to just be like oh girl, oh shorty, you know, like oh damn it took all of that away yeah, it was.
Speaker 3:we're gonna have sex because we're trying to become parents, and that's the only reason why we're gonna have sex from now until we become parents, and that's the only reason why we're going to have sex from now until we become parents.
Speaker 1:You're clocking in and clocking out man. A hundred percent, bro, it felt like work, chris.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it felt like work. So I think that also has to be mentioned, because it's not just a matter of your sexual, the nature of the sexual intimacy between you and your partner changing and transforming because of a miscarriage. Like the same thing is happening when you're trying to have children and you just are unable to for whatever, for whatever reason, for whatever period of time. Right, and especially after you've had a loss. And now you have that awareness and then you bring into what we were talking about earlier. You know this fear of if we do this, you know this may happen again. So now how can we try to regain more control over something that has left us feeling like we have no control whatsoever? And so now I'm gonna start trying to time my ovulation. You know timing this and timing that and so and you know people have all sorts of superstitious beliefs and you know if you do it on the kitchen counter, then it's to. You know what I mean Like if you do it in a semi full moon at 737,.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean With a can of just stay in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, Just, just just sit just sit there for a while.
Speaker 3:Just make sure you have that can of Mountain Dew as far away from you as possible, cause you can't be drinking Mountain Dew and you trying to conceive, bro, like no, you know, that's the sperm killer. You know what I mean? 100% like you can't do that now. If Mountain Dew wants to sponsor this podcast, please do. I'm not saying that this is what's happening here.
Speaker 3:I'm just saying that this is the perception of Mountain Dew when Mountain Dew first stepped onto the scene, like I remember that. You know what I mean. It's like if you want to be fertile, don't drink Mountain Dew Like that was a thing. That was a thing. So, mountain Dew, I'm definitely not casting any shade on you, bro. If you're trying to sponsor the Miscarriage Dads podcast, we're looking for sponsors, homie 100%. Just letting you know.
Speaker 1:No one say anything about that Baja Blast. We're just saying I don't know.
Speaker 3:Maybe it was just the street mountain dude, but the Baja. Blast bro Right. I'm saying That'll get you standing up, Chris.
Speaker 4:Yep.
Speaker 3:Just saying you standing up, chris, yep, just saying just saying if they want, if they want, oh man, for the sake of this conversation moving forward, let's use intimacy as the desirable, all things are good, and sex as just the cold, hard facts, stripped from all of the romance and stuff. Right?
Speaker 1:Facts, and you know. I'm glad you made that distinction too, because sex is just the overall act and intimacy is what makes it great.
Speaker 3:I don't even know if I can put into words how I was then relating to my own body at the time. I think there's a general perception that, generally speaking, men don't really have too many body image issues. Obviously, there are exceptions to every rule, but I think, generally speaking, that's like an assumed consensus, an assumed opinion. But I have to be honest with you that in that moment that was not the case for me. That was very much an exception for me, because I just felt like, in a way, I felt like I was being used, like yeah, like I felt like I was a tool, like a proper tool that she was using for the sake of gaining something that she desired, yeah. And so she wasn't looking at me as her husband, she wasn't looking at me as her partner, she wasn't looking to me for intimacy, she was strictly looking to me because I have a penis that produces sperm, was not the penis that produces sperm, but you know what I'm saying yeah you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3:like, I have the tools that produce sperm, and that's what she needs in order to have her eggs fertilized so that one of them can grow into, ultimately, a new life. Yeah, so let me get it from this guy who happens to be my husband, but at this moment, because of this thing, it doesn't even like I don't. I didn't feel like she was looking at me as her husband.
Speaker 1:That is objectification. Yes, and I think that's. I think obviously a lot of women understand, because that's how a lot of women feel, you know. They don't feel like they're a person in this transaction. They feel like they're just like a body part that a man wants to get at.
Speaker 3:Great word Transactional.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, Objectification, yes, and, and that does that does affect intimacy, you know, because I think that's the. That's the great thing about being intimate with the one that you love is there's all those feelings and all those emotions. There's the, of course, like the service level, like, yeah, girl, you just you just look good and I just want it. But there's also that man, but you know what? But I love you and you love me and we're just in this thing together and it is all. All of that just comes together in this amazing thing, right.
Speaker 1:But you know, when that part is missing and, like you said, it's just for this particular purpose. We want to have a child and this is what needs to be done. It just feels like a job, you know, and, like you said, you've become, you start feeling like more of a tool, yeah, and especially after you lose a child, and you're trying again, because I feel like the meticulousness goes way, way up, way, way up. I mean, you know, because after you've made that decision if you've made that decision, yeah, I definitely were ready to try again it goes away, especially if you haven't had the conversation about how you're feeling in terms of intimacy and all that kind of stuff and you're trying again for the sake of trying again.
Speaker 1:Not only is your intimacy already affected, because you've got some emotions that are going on she's got some emotions that are going on that maybe you guys haven't really talked about yet, so it could be inhibiting things but now there's also the whole work aspect of it. It's a huge swirl and ball of confusion that can come into it that, like you said, it makes it sex and no longer does it make it intimacy, and that is a huge problem. I think that's why there are a lot of couples that, especially after miscarriage, don't survive because they're not able to find that intimacy again. And I don't think it's anyone's fault.
Speaker 3:No, no, yeah, Thank you for mentioning that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know it's not like the woman's to blame or the man's to blame. It's hard. It's hard to be able to find the intimacy again, not because you don't love that person anymore, but because of what is connected with that act of sex. Now is that ultimate fear on both sides.
Speaker 3:You know, let's be honest too, right? So, even outside of the context of lost to miscarriage two people true to our context, because both of you and I are married men. So let's speak within our context as married men. Okay, so I don't know if this is true for you, but I am just going to open up here and reveal something that's been true for me at times. There's been times when I'm in the mood to be intimate with my wife, and now I have to go on the journey of figuring out if she's also in the mood so that we can be intimate together.
Speaker 3:And that's such a difficult thing to navigate in and of itself, because there's always that fine line of of trying to, you know, let me, let me poke here, let me prod here, let me, you know, let me see this and that. And it's so difficult to just just come out right and say, hey, you know, this is, this is what I'm feeling. I really miss you, I really want to be intimate with you tonight. Let's make it happen. Yeah, you know what I mean. So it's even difficult within that, and we're just stripping all of the lost stuff away from right, from that, just in the way that, in, in in the confines of a relationship period, it's so hard to be vulnerable and to be so direct about wanting to be intimate with someone. At least it's been. You know, like that at times for me, because dude you don't want to be rapey yeah, bro.
Speaker 1:And also you don't want to be like creepy and and just like right, so it's slimy yes, slimy, creepy, like you know, and because I feel like again we're speaking in in terms of the the marriage right, uh, husband and wife kind of thing. You are also in your mind trying to show your wife that you're not objectifying her.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You just want to do it, yeah, yeah. And, like you said, it is a fear because it's like man, I just don't want to be rapey. I don't know, growing up in this society and then learning that even inside of a marriage, you can still technically rape your wife. I don't know. There are some people that might disagree with that. If you do, I don't know what to tell you, but you can yeah bro, like if she says no right then it's no, you're not supposed to right you know, yeah, and we all know, especially as as married men, there's a difference between no and no.
Speaker 3:Stop it Like it's a clear difference. No stop, it means keep going. Right, it's like hey you know I'm intrigued. The next couple of moves you put on me right now, the next couple of words you say right now, the next couple of feelings you evoke in me right now, right, can actually lead to your desired outcome.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly, you know, um, but man the it, it, it is a, it's a, it's, it's a balancing act. They're a balancing act, you know, and, like you said, it plays into the whole intimacy thing because, hey, if you get rejected a lot now it's an issue, because, that's the case, right, because that's all already a part of a relational dynamic between a man and a woman who are in that level of intimate relationship.
Speaker 3:Now you add the nuance of a loss to miscarriage experience and she has her own thing going on inside of her mind. The nature of the relationship to between her and her body have completely changed, right. I would even argue and say that the nature of the relationship between you and your own body as a man has also changed. Yeah, again, we're definitely not feeling it in the same way as she's feeling it.
Speaker 3:The first procedure that she had, I think she was awake and she came out of that and I remember her saying to me that for days afterwards she was still feeling the internal pull of the suction and and that just really complicated the way that she felt inside of her own body, right, like in her own skin. I could have been a mixture of Idris Elba and George Clooney and you know the smoothest, like a Frank Sinatra. You know what I'm saying not have penetrated the cocoon that she had built around herself, because who wants to have intimacy or any type of sexual contact when on a regular day, while you're just sitting at home or laying on your bed, you still feel like some foreign object is vacuuming inside of you because it's trauma yeah, yeah, bro, yes and at that point anything that enters into that space that seems similar to the trauma is going to cause a trigger.
Speaker 1:You know, we talk about um, ptsd, with like soldiers that come home, and um, how there are a lot of guys like you have to be careful, like with fireworks, because there are a lot of guys like you have to be careful with, like with fireworks, because there are a lot of veterans that cannot they, they cannot hear fireworks because they are immediately on edge.
Speaker 1:You know, because of being in war, being in battles and those kinds of things. You know things that to us don't seem like anything but to them mean a lot. You know, man, it's the same thing for a woman that's going through that anything, anything entering that region is going to feel strange, anything. Unfortunately, that does count as you as a significant other, yeah, and it is our job in that moment to be understanding. But I think that is also a part of this entire intimacy problem Because, again, going back to being the husband, going back to the man, whatever, you know that this entire thing has been so traumatic. Now you're coming to a place where she might be saying whatever, maybe we should try again if it doesn't work.
Speaker 1:We're going through all that again yeah you know, and I'm putting you through the possibility of all that trauma again, yeah, that is going to affect me, you know, and that is going to affect my desire to be intimate and to have sex.
Speaker 1:It's going to affect that desire because I know what the end result could possibly be and I don't want to do that. I'm not sure if I want to do that at all, I'm not sure if I want to be there. I think, at the end of the day, what we're all, what we're trying to inspire, is a dialogue between you and your spouse about this Um, because, especially for um, maybe, uh, the people that are listening, that it's fresh and you haven't started trying again yet, um, to begin to explore those feelings now and begin to dialogue about that now. So that way, when you guys get to that point and I'm not even saying it's going to make it easier, but at least it's out in the open, so no one feels like there's rejection, because again and it's kind of what we were talking about before is how the other person can feel when they're being rejected. You know and I think that's what our guests were saying before is for men. We have to understand that part.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know we have to be willing to say, okay, I'm willing to sacrifice this part if she's not ready so here's also the truth.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sexual drive and sexual desire is a very potent force. There are times when it's not even that you're necessarily thinking about anything sexual, but, bro, your body is just like I want to express myself in this way yeah, and it's a very strong force. So now, in this context that we're talking about, I think it's also important to highlight number one. It's not always the case that you and your partner, right, like you and Amber are on the same wavelength at the same time when it comes to sexual desire. You know, I'm sure there's been times when she's wanted to get intimate with you and you're not necessarily there, or you've wanted to get intimate with her and she's not necessarily there.
Speaker 3:I don't think that's breaking news in anybody else's relationship, right, you know. So that's again outside of the context of loss. That's already a thing, radio thing. So now imagine how much more so that, being on different wavelengths, and especially for us, I think it's much easier for us to, or at least it takes us a shorter time to get reconnected with our sexual drive and sexual desires. Yeah, but for her it's going to take quite a bit of time, it may take quite a bit of time. So then that begs the question what happens now when you know maybe it's been, maybe it's been three months, maybe it's been six months since our loss to miscarriage and she's still not in a place where she wants to go any further than just being held? Yeah, maybe she would do a kiss, but like going all the way, she's not there yet, yep, but you as the man, you've been waking up with stiffies for the past like four months, right, right, you know what I mean. And what do you do, bro? What do you do?
Speaker 1:What you should do, but it's just saying it on camera.
Speaker 3:Go have some me time you know some happy time I don't know what you want me to say, chris, right.
Speaker 1:I just hey you know, some extended bathroom time.
Speaker 3:Hey, or look, because my thing is, if she's not ready, she's not ready, you know like but I think that's the point, right, right, I think that's the point, because, yes, you can have extended me time, bro, you a grown man, you could do whatever you want. Right, that is part of the reality that can happen to someone, to two people who've experienced a miscarriage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and there's the cliff, right, because that's that's where the intimacy can completely fall off. You know, because while you are trying to find other avenues to handle things, you know, then it gets to the point where she's ready. You know, okay, great, maybe she's ready now, but now you're not really 100% connected. Like you said, that wavelength is just off now. So now there's that, trying to work to get that wavelength back. You know that, right, there is really where you have to start understanding that intimacy and sex can be two separate things. But the fulfilling part is the intimacy, yeah, and trying to find different ways to be intimate outside of sex during that time.
Speaker 3:There it is yeah, there, it is right there, my guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's exactly where I wanted us to land right there, because when you said that earlier I was like you guys did. I mean, you know.
Speaker 3:But but, yes, that, right. There is the point yeah, right, right. And also again to the point of being patient with her during that process. How much can you be the covering for both of you during this time? Yeah, where you know that you're sacrificing your own personal desire, because the greater desire, the greater good, the greater outcome is making sure that she goes through whatever process she must go through, and she is going through and comes out on the other side of that still feeling like, wow, you honored me and my body and my experience, and that says a lot about how much you care for me, how much you value me, how much you love me, and I think that could be crucial for a woman, especially, bro, if she's dealing with in her process, if she's dealing with I'm not good enough, I'm not desirable enough, you know I'm broken, I'm this and I'm that, and then you're like, nah, babe, you know I'm broken, I'm this and I'm that, and then you're like, nah, babe, like I'm going to do whatever it is I got to do to make sure that I'm holding space for both me and you, so that when you are ready to go, like I've always been there waiting for you, you know.
Speaker 3:And so right now to your point, sexual intimacy is not the thing that is going to happen between us. We're not going to do that. I see you, I respect it. I'm not going to try to manipulate you either. I'm not going to try to guilt you to be like OK, so I got needs too. You know, that's something that we love to say as man bro. Yeah right, did you have a vacuum stuck inside of you, though?
Speaker 1:Right, Come on man.
Speaker 3:Did you have surgery to have anything removed from you? No, all right, so you can miss me with your needs, bro, and that's coming from a man who has needs.
Speaker 1:And see, this is where, this is where true manhood comes in.
Speaker 1:OK because we talk about true manhood as like, oh, I must be the provider and I must make all the decisions, and blah, blah, blah. No, what really makes you a man is when you're really able to hold your woman up during these times, and hold your wife up during these times and truly putting her needs before yours. That is hard, as hard, you know, um, being able to say I will wait as long as you need because I am your man, I want to be your strength during this moment. Yeah, you're saying you're not ready? Fine, cool, I will do whatever it is that you need me to do until you are ready. And when you're ready, hey, I will be right here, you know. But in the meantime, like you said, I'm going to show you how valuable you are, I'm going to show you how special you are, I'm going to make sure that you understand how much I still love you. And even though because let's not pretend that women don't already feel guilty- bro yes like, like it's real, like, let's not pretend that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, they know that you want to have sex. They know that, they know that you know, and, bro, guess what?
Speaker 3:because she loves you, she wants to get intimate with you too. Yes, yes, she just can't. She just can't. It's not that all of a sudden she's like oh right, you're repulsive to me. No, bro, no, y'all got. You guys are bro me and you were there because our wives decided to get intimate with us. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like that's where. That's where it started from. Unfortunately, it ended. The experience culminated in this moment of now. We're experiencing a miscarriage, but the very act of the miscarriage implies that she really enjoys getting intimate with you. Yes, and that hasn't changed. What has changed is that now there is this event, now there's this reality that you have both happened upon completely outside of your control, and it's thrown a monkey wrench in absolutely everything monkey ranch and absolutely everything. And because of her experience of being the one to have been pregnant, being the one who has that connection to the pregnancy and to the death that occurred, bro, death occurred inside of her body bro Inside her body man.
Speaker 3:That's wild. Like what are we talking about? I have no way of understanding that. Bro Inside her body man. That's wild. Like what are we talking about? I have no way of understanding that. Chris.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, as men, we have no way of understanding that, bro, at all. The only thing, bro, the only things that are dead, that enter our body, have been dead before Chicken, beef, you know, like fish, like that kind of stuff there's zero chance that that will ever happen to us.
Speaker 3:It would never happen to us no homie, you know what I mean. Like life began in her body and then death happened in her body. But like what are we talking about? Yeah, so she's like. That's what she's dealing with. And none of that has changed the fact that she does want to get intimate with you. It just means that because that horrendous, just distorting event has occurred, she just can't right now.
Speaker 1:It might, it might, and as the man, you've got to deal with that. You have to, you've got to be able to deal with that. You've got to be able, you've got to be able to stand strong and find, like I said, find them the ways to be intimate with her. You've got, but you've got to be understanding, you know, and because and because, again, I know, for me, I had that period myself, you know, um of uh, of not wanting to because of my own fears and those kinds of things. However, you know, even if it wasn't, I mean, it's funny, right, because this is the. This actually has something to do with the opposite Um, like, after Amber had Randall, um, she was like, look, I need some time, I need some time. You know, she was like he's all over me right now and I just can't. So I just just waited. We still hung out, still had fun, still laughed together, still watch movies, still did all the normal stuff, but she needed some time. So I waited until until the time can we talk a little bit about?
Speaker 3:so we've we've said so far find other ways to be intimate with your spouse or your partner. Can we put two or three of those on the table, like, yeah, so what did you do?
Speaker 1:I mean for me. I just tried to make sure that I was doing, still doing, of course, all the little things, but at the same time definitely always asking how are you doing? Do you need to talk? Is there anything that we need to do that we can do together? What's going on for Amber? It's big that we are like close to each other. So still making sure that I'm holding her, you know, still making sure that we're having those little moments together, you know, still making sure that we're dialoguing and talking, and it doesn't necessarily have to be about miscarriage stuff, it can be about anything, but just making sure that we are talking. You know I'm in ministry so she likes to talk about the Bible and those kinds of things, making sure that those conversations are still happening.
Speaker 1:Now, I don't like talking about relationship stuff. That's her thing. However, when she brings it up and is like, hey, she always does this relationship check-in, hey, I'm ready for us to talk about our relationship. How are things going? Entering into that conversation with no, I was like I don't feel like it right now. Jump into that conversation because that's what she needs right now. Making sure that One of my things is I try to do my best to make her laugh. You know whether it's a stupid video or a stupid random joke or me just doing something dumb, I just want to make her laugh, you know you know, just because for that moment all pain is gone, those those little moments mean something.
Speaker 3:So Michelle loves to watch the whole 90 day fiance universe. She loves that stuff. I could care less about that. Oh yeah, like I could care less. However, if that's what she wanted me to do at the time, bro, I was watching 90 day fiance with my wife. I guess the deeper question we're we're exploring now is the sexual intimacy brings something right, like there there is, there is some level of connection that occurs that transcends just the physical way that our bodies connect Right. How can we find other things to get as close to that deeper, intimate emotional connection as possible through another medium? That's not sexual intimacy.
Speaker 1:Right, I think. I think, first of all, you have to realize that sexual intimacy isn't the end. All be all of intimacy.
Speaker 3:That's a fact.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and that, with all the other things that you do, all the other things that you do to, to be in, all the other things that you do, all the other things that you do to be in, all the other things that you do to be intimate, add up to that sexual intimacy 100, like. It's like when your wife tells you you know, hey, I want foreplay before sex because you know, brothers is like I'm ready, let's go, let's do it. You know she's like, no, I need a little buildup time. You know that buildup time shouldn't start like just when you're getting ready to have sex. You know that buildup time should be all the things that you do after that, because I'm telling you, when you're getting into that moment and and, and you're having that moment, that sexual moment with your wife, all of those things are playing through her mind, you know, um, so you have people who say listen, that foreplay begins the moment your eyes open that morning.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you know, like you, literally there there's a crescendo, there there is one. It's like a one way street. From the moment you wake up, every single thing that you do, everything that you say, every gesture towards her is to bring momentum to what you guys are about to do later on that evening. You know what I'm saying. So, so yeah, we're talking about those things and the the, the way that I think the caveat that I want to throw in there is because now there's been a loss to miscarriage. You know that the outcome, the crescendo, is not going to be sexual intimacy.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yet you should still do those things, yes, as if the outcome was going to be sexual intimacy at the end that the payoff was going to be. You know what I'm saying. So what are's like a good starting place for men who may be asking at this point in the conversation like dang bro, I don't even know what the hell to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know what? There are some things that you just don't think about, that you can do, that are really simple Wash the dishes without her asking one time. You know, just just suddenly start trying to fix things around the house. You only have to be good at it. You can call someone to come and fix things around the house. Those things go very long way.
Speaker 3:Pamper her bro. Hey, babe, look, I know you got it. It's not even about you are Miss Independent. I get it. But you know what? Here, take my card, treat yourself to a spa day. Yep, yep, just a spa day, not a spa day. And Target and Macy's Just a spa day, because we can't be bankrupt. Yeah, at the end of your day. Target runs mean a lot, I mean mean listen, between a spa day or target run, you choose, but it can only be one just one, just one, it's one I'll tell you the excitement on amber's face when I'm like babe, let's go to target, you can get whatever you want.
Speaker 1:Whatever I want okay, I mean whatever in the budget. Within reason, right, you know but even so, like you know, to see them light up like that, hey, you did something, you know you did something.
Speaker 3:Well, like you said to your point, that goes a long way. Yes, that goes a long way.
Speaker 1:Because it's just all things that show her that you care. That's the point. That's the point that you care.
Speaker 3:That's the point. That's the point that you care. Are there any final things that you want to sort of put on the table as food for thought?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I think when it comes to like even the ideas that we lay down, every relationship is different. You know your significant other and I think that the main thing is kind of what I said at the end At the end of the day, what your significant other wants to know is that you care. That's a fact. So, when it comes to trying to find that intimacy, do whatever you know your other person loves, whatever it is, it doesn't have to be any of the ideas that we brought up. Maybe it can be, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:But the fact that we brought up maybe it can be doesn't matter but the fact that, and if, if you have if you don't know what to do, ask. It's that simple, bro. It's that simple, oh man, wow, yeah, I thought we had to reinvent the wheel right. Just ask. Just ask, you know, and I think you will see an appreciation for that too as well. Thank you. Thank you you.
