Pure Arete
Journey of Excellence with Charlie Shaw
Our discussion also sheds light on the critical need for ethical living and balance in a demanding world. Charlie and I reflect on our personal experiences with fitness transformation and the power of a strong support system. We underscore the importance of consistency and adaptability in the ongoing journey of self-improvement. This chapter is a heartfelt exploration of how past experiences shape current efforts and the constant pursuit of betterment.
Finally, our conversation navigates the intricacies of community policing and effective leadership in law enforcement. We explore the transformative power of genuine community engagement and the necessity for respectful communication. Charlie shares his insights on the importance of effective leadership and adapting to the evolving nature of law enforcement. We wrap up with a discussion on the challenges of retirement preparation, emphasizing the need for better support systems to help individuals transition from structured careers to civilian life. Tune in for a compelling episode filled with valuable lessons on leadership, personal growth, and community engagement.
Our discussion also sheds light on the critical need for ethical living and balance in a demanding world. Charlie and I reflect on our personal experiences with fitness transformation and the power of a strong support system. We underscore the importance of consistency and adaptability in the ongoing journey of self-improvement. This chapter is a heartfelt exploration of how past experiences shape current efforts and the constant pursuit of betterment.
Finally, our conversation navigates the intricacies of community policing and effective leadership in law enforcement. We explore the transformative power of genuine community engagement and the necessity for respectful communication. Charlie shares his insights on the importance of effective leadership and adapting to the evolving nature of law enforcement. We wrap up with a discussion on the challenges of retirement preparation, emphasizing the need for better support systems to help individuals transition from structured careers to civilian life. Tune in for a compelling episode filled with valuable lessons on leadership, personal growth, and community engagement.
Welcome to today's show, and right in the studio today I have Mr Charlie Shaw special guest. Thank you, man, for coming in.
Speaker 2:No, thank you bro, after that workout that we did this morning, I didn't think I was going to make it, but we got through it.
Speaker 1:You saw me hobbling in here late. No, I'm proud of you, man. I saw you busting your butt this morning. You as well, but you as well.
Speaker 2:It's always a pleasure working out with you guys. At 8 o'clock I'm usually on 9. But you know we had to get some things done today, so we got in there early.
Speaker 1:Yeah, A lot of people weren't doing what we were doing this morning, that's for sure. Not at 8 o'clock and that's another show. But Charlie's in here today and he's telling me about his. He's got a new podcast coming out and he can tell us about it right now.
Speaker 2:Appreciate you, man. Well, as you know, I had a previous podcast Well, it was actually it was season one. That podcast was called Little Mel Unfiltered. I started that back in January, you know, right after I got myself situated after retiring in September of 24. Basically, it was about motivating and inspiring others to do great things. I was interviewing folks that you know out in the community and their employment. However, they can motivate other people, I wanted to talk to them to see if we can get them to you know on the show and and do more of that. On a broader sense. Well, the same show them that just renamed is basically the same concept and that show is going to be called period and you'll be able to find that show just like you found my last show.
Speaker 2:and I'm really excited about it, so you want to. You were asking me what is it read?
Speaker 1:well, yeah, and I, because I asked you about it a little bit before the show started and uh, pure read for the listeners. That's a-r-e-t-e. Right, it is a uh, is it a system?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's um. A reed is a ancient greek. A REIT is an ancient Greek term that signifies excellence and any time that you know, both of us was in leadership roles when we were working in our respective law enforcement agencies, me being in US Marshals and Orange County. Such as yourself, we want to motivate our people. We want to show good leadership. So I was reading something that I'm doing now while I'm retired, and I came across that word READ, and it explains best of what I'm trying to seek for myself and also bring out in others. It represents the ideal of reaching one's highest potential and striving for perfection in all endeavors of life and profession. Enhancing a restate of mind means committing to personal and professional excellence, continuously seeking to improve oneself or help improve others through living a life that reflects the highest standards and integrity, skills and dedication to yourself and others, so it really encompasses all aspects of leadership in businesses, and no matter what they are.
Speaker 1:It seems like the concept is going to be the same as far as being good leaders, right, well, actually just a good person overall.
Speaker 2:Bingo, just a good person overall. You know, I think we've lost. I'm not going to say all of us, but I think that a lot of people have lost that where they're just accepting what it is right now, when they have the capacity to be better each day, like we strive to. We strive to improve ourselves each and every day. So I just want to, you know, bring it back and remind folks hey, man, you got greatness in you man.
Speaker 1:People do need to be reminded that. So is that. Is that? How do you think that's important in today's society?
Speaker 2:that is that, uh, how do you think that's uh important in today's society? Well, when you, when you look at the grand scheme of things, when you're talking about it being in society, one can, one can say, okay, so let's say in society, let's say something as easy as just going out to eat, right, the person that's you know that's waiting on you, for example, listen, they know that you're paying top dollar for that hamburger.
Speaker 1:You're sitting down $18 hamburger Right. They know that you're paying top dollar for it.
Speaker 2:They didn't have to. You, you know, come to your restaurant, so why not? You know, show them that you appreciate them. You know, make sure that everything that they're ordering I'm not saying kiss their butt or anything, but just show them the respect, the respect of, you know, hey, thank you for coming into my shop. Or when we're talking along the lines of our profession, law enforcement, everybody knows that we have to. You know, everybody knows that what our jobs are, well, the majority of people know what our jobs are.
Speaker 2:And with that respect, we provide a service to the community. We should be excellent across the board, even when we're putting handcuffs on the person right, we should show that person respect and because you know there's, there's no reason for air when you, when you, when you're looking for looking at that in the grand scheme of things, if you're professional across the board, right what can you argue?
Speaker 1:yeah, and it should be nothing personal, ever Nothing personal. Yeah, and it's like when I think we actually I was talking about a video earlier where it looked like something, an incident, got personal. It's like you know Right, but yeah, so as far as the REIT system is that, how do you incorporate that into your daily life?
Speaker 2:Well, good thing, growth, orientation into your environment, encouraging others to strive towards greatness, like, for example, we work out, we do the CrossFit we're pushing each other each and every day, each and every day, or even through exercises. You know, hey, charlie, let's get up the wall. Hey, kev, we got to carry this thing another 400 meters, or not? Yep.
Speaker 1:Six months ago that wasn't happening like that. But yeah, it's that concept and the encouragement and the teaching.
Speaker 2:Right, you know it's cultivating, just as a person waters a garden, right? It's a good analogy. Yeah, you know the reason why you're watering a garden. You're planting a seed in a garden, right? Okay, so you're expecting to, you know, harvest something, you know, within a few weeks or months. Well, that needs sunshine, it needs water, it needs nourishments. You have to apply these things and sometimes we forget those ingredients you know, or sometimes a person don't know the proper ingredients. You're going to have to take time out. You may have to take time out as a leader or as a friend. That's not just on a leadership side of it, that's business, but on a personal level. Sometimes you may have to remind a person. A lot of times we don't want to remind our friends that, hey, man, you can do great things, you can do whatever you want to do. You're just going to have to put the work in and apply it. Well, I don't know how. Well, you know what. Maybe I know how, maybe I can share with you, or maybe we can find out together.
Speaker 1:And do you think you have to tweak things based on generational differences? Oh, of course, Because I'm glad you brought that up. Generational differences oh of course.
Speaker 2:Because I'm glad you brought that up we're, we're, I'm not. I'm not going to use that twilight thing, but we finished our career Correct, correct, right. And what we're doing right now is we're podcasting. We don't have to do this, no. But the reason why we're doing this is because maybe we still got some things that we want to inform people of.
Speaker 2:Well, the reason why I created Peery Read and I'm also doing speaking engagements and I also do training is because I still have that knowledge that someone shared with me many moons ago, right, and I find it necessary that I return that Each one to each one. So, with the next generation of folks that's coming up, my specialty is law enforcement. If I can help groom or provide some of my knowledge and keep learning, then maybe the people coming up behind me may ask me some questions or how would they go about? When you were a supervisor, what did you do in this situation? Or how would you handle this person? Or how would you handle this scenario? So I feel it necessary for my own personal growth and also for the growth of others is to try to develop a podcast, train materials, maybe even books at one time, maybe even little manuals or books on trying to help the ones that's coming up behind me.
Speaker 1:Okay, now I'm going to tell you I went on an old man rant just a few days ago talking about what you're hitting on and as far as sharing your knowledge, Right Back in the day I don't know, maybe like eight nine-year deputy or officer, there was a, you know, you run into older guys and everybody wanted to like write a book. I think a couple of them did. I think I've read a couple of them. One of them was called like 10-8. I remember it's like that was just the thing, and then we progressed, like doing that process. I never thought that hey, we would be retired, like you didn't even think about retiring.
Speaker 2:Didn't even think about it. It was so far out.
Speaker 1:But now look yeah but now look, the book turns into a podcast, which is a lot easier than writing a book. Right, and what? I find that, as far as teaching things like you, have so much to teach you as well.
Speaker 2:You're talking about in general.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just in general. Like, sometimes you see things like, oh man, why did they do that? Because nine times out of ten you've been through it, or at least you've seen it, and I don't think that knowledge should be wasted. Because there was a day where, on a date, the book of what to do used to be this big, Right, and then it got like super big and then it turned into a disc that nobody ever looked at, right, right. So the people just got dumber. I'm just going to say it, sorry. People got dumber because it was easier to ask than to go to the computer.
Speaker 1:It's not the kind of job where you go hey, let me go look. Nobody's going to type that up, they're not going to do it. It's like you either know it or you don't. Right, right, right. But when they start doing that and they start making the information less accessible, it seems like it's more accessible, but it's not. So you have people going. Uh, when you see some of the mistakes and just stupid things that people do and some malicious things people do, it sounds crazy, but it's like I think the newer generation especially. They need to be told like don't, don't double dip in your off duty, kind of thing, or they have to be told what not to do specifically because they don't understand the whole totality of it well, kev.
Speaker 2:You know as well as I do my policy is written by written because of somebody's name some things that people have done or made those mistakes. So we're not going to beat up those who fail, because the way I've been looking at things the last few years and I've read a few things failure is fine.
Speaker 1:Yes, if you learn from it especially.
Speaker 2:And when you learn from something, you actually fail forward. You didn't fail backwards, you failed forward. If you're failing forward, you have the capacity to learn from your mistakes Absolutely, and that's what peer reading is all about. You know, hey, you can learn so much if you, you know, open your eyes and listen. You had two ears. Listen with both of them. You had two eyes. Listen with both of them. Speak, yeah, one mouth. Be careful what comes out of your mouth. Be careful how you use the words that come out of your mouth, absolutely. And if you're how you use the words that come out of your mouth, absolutely, and if you're going to use those words, make sure that those words are words that's going to better yourself and better others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you test on on your, your podcast. Like I said, just treating people, respect what you just covered. Just a general employees need to feel like their input is valued. I mean you know it's like I mean I'll say tell me more about the challenges of incorporating your program into daily lives of individuals. And like I was kind of giving my little example, like it's instilling that and there's like state of mind like this is how do you make people like aware of just of their surroundings and doing the right thing and how it looks two hours from now? And you know it's kind of like I know we're covering a broad topic there, but there's very little. I don't hear about too many true management. It's kind of like I like what you're doing, because the true management podcast of just down and down to earth, just what it is right, right. So how do you instill that to what I would like to call like? Some people are like just I won't call them dumbasses, but they're unaware.
Speaker 2:They're unaware and they make life hard on themselves I'd rather use words unaware than dumbasses, because everybody has potential to um to make themselves aware of uh, a growth, but yeah, sometimes they do represent dumbasses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've all been dumbasses here and there. I've kicked myself many times. I was a dumbass and you know you can recover, but you learn. It's okay to be a dumbass if you learn.
Speaker 2:Well, first off, I'd like to say that with me, after retiring, I went on transformation and that was for my personal success. I did well in my employment, I was happy with it, but I was also seeking to improve my health, improve my mindset on things outside of my previous employment, because we get cloudy we get really cloudy when all we're doing is focusing on work, and I found myself just focusing on that and I wasn't taking care of myself. You know, I posted some pictures of my transformation transformation and weight loss and I'm still working on that. I'm still a work in progress and I'm happy with that because I'm seeing the fruits of labor.
Speaker 2:So, with that being said, you know you got to set personal goals and align it with your own values when you're pursuing self-improvement. You got to live ethically. Yes, you have to live ethically. There's one thing that you should never lose is those ethics that you have, that's been instilled in you, and dedicate yourself to what you're trying to achieve in your journey or transformation, and strive for excellence in all the areas that lead to fulfillment and balance. Balance is very important. Balance in your life is very important, and that's something that I noticed that I wasn't doing last year I wasn't balancing. Yes, I agree, I wasn't doing. Last year I wasn't balancing.
Speaker 2:Yes, I agree, I wasn't doing it either, because you just get so caught up, you get caught up, you know, and I shared all this with you and didn't really know you, but we connected. Once we found out that we had a background, I was like, hey, man, you're a year out from you know, what did you do? And I was, you know, I pretty did. You pretty much did the same thing, that that I was seeking you. You realize that there was some things that you need to improve and you got in the gym and you set yourself a podcast. You know then, no, I didn't know.
Speaker 1:No, I didn't know you can reset the clock. Yeah, you can reset. You know to your abilities and you're not. You may not be able to run a 40.
Speaker 2:We're not trying, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:But just the concept of being able to run again Right and everything that the coaches instill in you is a major leadership role. It kind of encompasses a lot of what your podcast is about, Because you know it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks and they pull it off. Role it kind of encompasses a lot of what your podcast is about, because it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks and they pull it off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you know what, If you leave me with some water, man, I'm drinking it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a couple people. I've been out of state a handful of times and ever since that little transformation page that you were talking about, I've showed people hey, look at this guy. I remember when you got there around Christmas and you were talking about him four or five months he looked like a different person. One girl told me that the second picture looked like you know, the first picture. You looked like the other guy's father. I was like, well, I guess that's a huge compliment, but you could tell, like the second picture, the transformation I'm sorry to belly laugh, no, but it's true. Like the second picture, you're like, you're super happy, you're smiling. The first picture was just like Like the old man.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it's like you thought you were happy, but it was clear that when you look at, like your facial expression, your body and what you were doing, the second guy it's a different guy, it's not the same guy.
Speaker 2:Well, whoever told?
Speaker 1:you that I appreciate it. Actually, it was the person you saw me talk to yesterday.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, oh, the new one, yeah, the brand new one yeah, Really yeah.
Speaker 1:I was just telling her about the people transforming in gym. That was like most recent. But yeah, other than that I've been up north saying the same things. Right, right it's funny.
Speaker 2:You said that because I think Devin put me on there in the show. Hey, look at this guy man. Anybody can do it. It's crazy because people know that was good marketing for them that wasn't like a year transformation, that was only a few months, like that was coming in killing it.
Speaker 1:It was six months yeah, I remember the first time, uh, when you came in like you know, we had a see a handful of people like who's willing to commit to it, which is a lot of uh, uh. You know, like there's some people that come in it's like okay, we going to see this guy or this girl again, and it might come on two or three times and then they're gone.
Speaker 1:And I'm like I didn't even know him. I'm like, ah, he's back, he's here. He's like there's that consistency. He's like, well, this is somebody who's taking it seriously, because a lot of people, just like they think they're, they're going to come in with that. I want to date myself with the 80s and 90s mentality of oh, I'm going to still, and it's like dude, you're not that person, Whatever you think you are you're not that person, you're not that dude anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I get kind of sad when I see somebody start because you know, since I've been there, right, there's been some people that started and they haven't come back, and I get kind of sad about that man because the journey we're all in the same journey, yeah, and they won't stay around for that support system.
Speaker 1:Man, we're here. Yeah, trust me, I couldn't do the stuff we did today a year ago that wouldn't happen.
Speaker 2:Oh, that would cancel a lot of people's membership.
Speaker 1:But it's like you get you try not to let them get their asses handed to them on the first day Right, and it's like it gets back to once again. It gets back to the leadership thing, Like you want people. It's like that realization that I'm not in the shape that I thought I was in and I'm not in high school anymore. I'm not in my twenties and, to be honest, to do three deep knee bends might lay me up for a little while.
Speaker 1:It's hard to come to terms with that, but you gotta go back. You gotta come back and it, don't.
Speaker 2:It don't bite that hard. You know it bites a little bit. We got, we gotta admit it. It do um, it do bite. It bites a little bit but it's not anything that you can't get through.
Speaker 1:Well, in your system, in this podcast, as far as getting that motivation to come back Right and you can apply it to management also, as far as your employees, just to have them want to come in and perform a task for you have them want to come in and perform a task right.
Speaker 2:You well, you know myself, I I managed a great bunch of guys and there was a lot of days where I had been courage, even when I wasn't didn't want to be encouraged, or even when I was down, I had to encourage them. Hey look, man, we got to stay in this. You know, we got to keep looking for the bad guys. We got gotta stay on top of these protection details. We gotta stay on top of these extraditions. So my thing was listen, we're in the moment, right now, but this isn't forever. Yeah, and a lot of you know, you have to build that culture with folks to let them know that you are their support system, that you are here for them. You understand, you understand what they're going through because every day is not bed of roses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I hate to stereotype management, but we were talking earlier there's a difference between, like, entry-level management, middle management and upper management. They're so different and I think as far as you further up the ladder, the more detached you normally become. We had a few cool supervisors that were up there, but they still were relatable. They didn't forget where they came from, I think. I think that's the part that I would say rubbed me the wrong way. As far as being in management, like some of the people, like I remember you when you started. So this guy or girl made the same mistake that you did in a different era and you beat him up. Yeah, and you beat him up and act like you don't understand. I don't. I don't subscribe to that point of view because I still remember like you can act like you can. You forgot it because you took some tests and everything.
Speaker 2:But you're not infallible.
Speaker 2:No, you're not. You have your fouls, yeah, fouls, yeah. And I was lucky enough. I was lucky enough throughout my entire career. Even with the military that I had, I had good managers that weren't totally like that. You know, if they made a mistake, hey look, I made a mistake on it, I made a bad call on that one, I'll get it better. So you know, that's my attitude. But I have had some that they ain't admitted to nothing. No, but guess what? I ain't staying in those operations very long because I knew that that wasn't for me, right you may. I'm that. That wasn't for me, right you may? I'm not going to say which job. It was one of those divisions where everybody wanted to get into. I got there and realized, man, you know what? The grass really isn't that green over here on this side. It was because of the culture Right, really isn't that great or that green on this over here on this side.
Speaker 2:It was because of the culture, right, the culture is what made me like I bust my butt to get here and people don't even. They don't even care about the program. They're just here taking up a space. I don't think any. Anyone should just be in a position, just take up the space or not leave when their time is up and continue to occupy that space. You have that also.
Speaker 1:You have that also and I question how effective of a manager do you think you are if you're just not leaving a spot and you should? Like everybody, it's the consensus that you've done your time Like. I'm talking to people that that are losing money working like oh yeah like you know if you retired you would make more money than than if you still stayed employed. It's like how effective do you think you are? Or did you just not plan your life correctly? Or just the ability of not having to be somebody anymore?
Speaker 2:well, until a person tell me why they're staying around. I don't want to assume, but you know what? We're pretty sharp. We're called investigators. We know that a lot of people just stick around because they don't want, you know, don't have anything else planned. Yeah, that's all they do. You know what. That's too bad for them, because there's a lot of life out here, there's a lot of living out here and everything shouldn't be so focused on your employment. But while you're in there, be the best and do the best, and do the best by your people. Don't just sit on a position just because you can what I noticed, and it's not just where I work at it.
Speaker 1:Literally I've talked to different entities and different counties because everybody thinks in just the law enforcement community I'm just going to say there's an understanding but people don't realize that as far as being in management, it's pretty much pretty consistent. But actually what you do from county to county or city to city, no one operates the same. They have different. Where we are at right now there's different codes that you know like there's no general consensus overall about like call signs and 10 codes and certain procedures and you know ordinances and stuff was like operate in their own zone. Yeah, everybody, everybody's different. That whole innovative thing where we're like I remember back in the day we were looking like we were sitting there watching some screwed up uh taser incident, like it sparked a lot of conversation. But as far as being a bunch of managers sitting around talking and we're like well, how come I'll give you a law enforcement examples Like it was a taser incident, that, how come?
Speaker 1:when it was like at a Wendy's or something, I think it happened in Georgia, Right, and it was like this guy got in a scuffle when the officer picked picked up the taser that apparently was on him and started running Right and turned around and shot some darts Don't know if it don't think it hit him, the guy or the officer.
Speaker 1:The guy, the guy running, he kind of did this and the officer shot him and I think he killed him. So the argument it wasn't an argument, it was actually a discussion. It's like, well, why is a taser non-lethal when you use it, but it's lethal when somebody else uses it? Interesting yeah interesting.
Speaker 1:It's like you were and it's like and everybody's policy is different, and but it sparks conversation because law enforcement is pretty much gauged by even the management styles based on the community. Yeah, problems here, problems there, like they're certain you're not going to police the same in wavelength mississippi as you are, freaking. Uh, yeah, it's like it's not the same beast but it's the same job, but it's just. It's like it's not the same beast but it's the same job, but it's just. Once again, things that happen state to state, county to county, even city to city, they're different, like the use of force. That's part of the way you govern also. Yeah, so how do you manage that? Because it's always different?
Speaker 2:Well, it sounds more of a policy and procedure question that you're directing toward me, but it also sounds like a cultural police and the culture of that particular area. I've always had the luxury of working for larger departments, Not saying anything not putting it in a negative sense of how small-town USA managed their police force, because they're going to have a lot of reasons why use of force is more prevalent than in larger places and larger places probably had the reverse response to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, call it anti-Griffith police work.
Speaker 2:But it all goes back to culture also. When you mention, how can you apply a read in your personal life, how can you apply a read in your personal life? Those everything focuses back on how you treat people. When I say when you apply when we were talking about personal, now we're talking about business or policing it all focuses back on how you treat people and what I found also is how are you communicating with folks?
Speaker 2:bingo, that's huge how are you communicating with people in your, in your, in your town? Are you only communicating with people that, like you or you know in interest, culture, race, ethnicity? Do you have that makeup for all those, um, you know? Do you have that makeup on your force? Uh? Are you engaging with your uh, religious leaders, your business owners? Are you going out to the schools making sure that you know the younger, younger generation see you not just as a protector or a threat, but someone that they can actually come up to you and say hey, you know what I looked at when I was growing up? I didn't look at police as threats.
Speaker 2:I looked at I told you before I saw deputy friendly, I know that.
Speaker 1:We used to run out to the road. You can see cars coming from where I used to live, we used to run out to the road so we could just wave to a cop car.
Speaker 2:I mean. A lot of it has to do with culture. Are police officers getting out? Are they getting out of their squad cars? Are they walking around the neighborhoods?
Speaker 1:The answer is no people. Well, and I say that's, it's funny that that you say that, because I was like a pet peeve of mine before, because I've seen it like, right, I stopped. Uh, it's one of those stories and I would say stop me if you heard it before. But yeah, one one evening I was, uh, we're in a late call and I stopped by this little uh convenience store to play a lottery number and get a set right Right, right right.
Speaker 1:And when I walked in there the guy was like the clerk was like he's like he was. You could tell that. Look on his face. He was like no police just ever walked in there to say, hey, how are things going? Or this, and that he was always associated with something bad. And I'm like, well, maybe and don't get me wrong I get the whole community policing thing and it's cool. I think a lot of people today they do things that we used to do back in the day, like before the Internet or before everything turned into like what seemingly is a photo op, right, yeah, I mean, you know I've had some people, I've known people that as far as maybe being an officer, maybe they didn't have the best reputation or just, are you talking agency or are you talking about individuals?
Speaker 1:I'm talking like individual, individual officers, whether they have rank or not. But even if they didn't have rank, they're still in a managerial position. When you're dealing with the public, you're still an authoritative figure.
Speaker 1:That's being recognized as such yeah, and decisions that you make, they do influence other people. But yeah, you just, you just see these people and it's like I've also seen that guy, like a girl in some cases uh, feed the homeless, like reaching their pocket, and say, hey, here's, here's some, here's some money. Go get yourself something to eat, because it's cold outside.
Speaker 2:We both work with officers that don't engage with the public in the area that they patrol.
Speaker 1:It turns into those people.
Speaker 2:I made every effort to go to the gas station where the where, where our printers weren't right, you know, I parked in those, in those parking lots. Um, now, granted, those are high crime areas that aren't always frequent, but I did make an effort to show that we have a presence and you know, or the, or the grocery store that not everybody went to. I made an effort, but that's just my individual your background, where you came from right, my individual behavior.
Speaker 2:I would encourage any any officers as listener or future officers that's listening to this podcast is engage your community. Yeah, engage your community. It's just that simple.
Speaker 1:We know for a fact that you don't live in the same community that you patrol Nope, and if you do, you get the side eye unless you live in somewhere really nice and you get to patrol somewhere really nice Nope, and if you do, you get to side-eye unless you live in somewhere really nice and you get to patrol somewhere really nice Right, we know that you don't live in those areas, but that's all the more reason why you should engage the people in those areas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's when I think when I got hired it was kind of one of those and these people were managers but it's kind of I call it a detachment. I mean you can be a good managers, but it's kind of I call it a detachment. I mean you can be a good manager but still be detached. And I hope as far as bringing people back into the fold, because even in some training modules that we used to go through, like if a I'm just going to use it as an example because if a white officer can go to an all-black area, that officer, as presented in the presentation, was in a area full of minorities. He wasn't a minority, he was in an area full of minorities.
Speaker 2:No, he is the minority. Yeah, and you see how things change because, well, like, we mentioned earlier, language is very, very powerful and you have to watch what comes out of your mouth. Yeah, Now I understand that they were trying to identify geographically where you're at or demographically where you're at for the masses. But no, you are from that area, so you are the minority.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're the outsider Right.
Speaker 2:You know, just like you know, anybody you know, want to come here and be a citizen. They immerse themselves into the culture of this country, which means that they, you know, learn how to live here. Well, when you're an officer, if you're a patrol officer, you have to learn the ways of that community. You know, we have, you know, we, this area that we live in and many areas around our great nation there's, there's different cultures, like I've worked in Miami, all right, you know how many different, almost banished communities there. You know, yeah, different, and you, you have, you have, you know, community, community. I had to break Jamaican community, hey, back in the day.
Speaker 1:I had to break up, almost like a knock down drag out between one of one of the guys I worked with and a prisoner, and it wasn't really a good guy, bad guy thing. One was Cuban and one was Puerto Rican.
Speaker 2:You even have it in the prisons? Yeah, where you have to. You know, jail officials have to do interviews of the prisoners before they come in because they may be involved in gangs.
Speaker 1:They may have some prejudice. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean. So you have to know who you're dealing with. And how are you going to learn that just while I'm waiting for a call and then you deal with it? Then no, you go to the hey, all these homeowner associations. They have meetings at least once a month in those different communities. And then you've got the rec centers. Why don't you go in the rec center for a moment?
Speaker 1:Well, in every supervisory, everything that we're talking about leads back to a supervisor in charge of a certain thing, right?
Speaker 2:Everything more of a sector.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, just stick with law enforcement. People don't get if you get sucked up in it. Law enforcement changes daily, every day. It is not a-.
Speaker 2:It's changed since we left.
Speaker 1:Yes, 100%, it's changed, it's like, because it's not, it always has. If you don't stick your head up out of that hole and look around, the stuff that you were doing six months ago is already outdated. It's not acceptable. It's not acceptable behavior, right, and your management is you always try to be mid-level. You're kind of like being a bad guy. It's like everything that comes out from the top whether the upper crust has a stupid idea or something out here is like well, this is changing. You might have to change the way you're doing it, because one thing cops don't like coming from management is change.
Speaker 2:Well, you know this is why I like talking to you about about this, about the subject of policing, is because we both got different views on it. I see and hear what you're saying and my perspective of it is I was middle management and I don't look at myself as being a bad guy. I look at myself as providing information that the organization wants and having those meetings with the organization, being at the table with the organization and knowing what they're trying to get. Well, I've had those conversations where you're not going to get it like that. No, exactly. Allow me, allow me to approach it a different way and I can get you the same results right, and that's what period reads all about. You know you can. You can get the same results by applying different techniques, but you're only going to get those results if you communicate and you're applying. You have to communicate with people. Guys aren't going to want to do everything that the bosses want you to do.
Speaker 1:You mean, it's not just an email?
Speaker 2:No, that's horrible. No, no, You're going to have to apply some different techniques and that's another reason why you need to know your staff, know the community that you're dealing with. Not everybody's just going to blindly follow you. No, If you think everybody's going to blindly follow you, I'm sorry that's not going to happen.
Speaker 1:And that shouldn't be what you want as a manager. Pardon, you shouldn't want that as a manager.
Speaker 2:No. And then there's another one. I'm going to disagree with you all. A lot of managers feel like that's the way it is On the balls and that's the way it's going to go. No, you can get what you want, but it's not going to be what you want.
Speaker 1:Right, and there's always the aftermath.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Because it can't come off the wrong way, like, I think, one of the best supervisors, that some of the best supervisors I've had, because I've had a lot of great supervisors and even what I would call bad supervisors. You got to learn from them too Right, that's some things that you wouldn't incorporate in your management style, versus certain things you would. But one thing that I knew I was running into a good manager if I was doing something and performing a task, and I did not want to disappoint them.
Speaker 2:Now that was a great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't want to you don't want to disappoint them because they literally treated you so well and you worked together.
Speaker 2:If you're a manager that can get your staff to feel bad when they disappoint you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, You're doing something right? Yes, you're doing something right.
Speaker 2:You're absolutely in there. You can get more honey. How is it you can get more ants with honey, or whatever it is, somebody?
Speaker 1:Well, Google it and get back to you folks.
Speaker 2:Or somebody email me after they see the show and give me some good analogies.
Speaker 1:But it's true though. Yeah, yeah, it makes you employees want to feel good, Right, and you know, if you don't give them that like if you think they're replaceable cogs, you're going to get a lot of what we see in these articles, whether it be in law enforcement or just regular business because you're not disposable. Right, regular business because you're not disposable. I think coming into a conversation like you got to the person that flips the burgers at McDonald's deserves this much respect as a CEO of the company.
Speaker 1:They do Because they do more for you than that CEO will. Well, they will. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:I should have. If anybody listening that knows me and worked with me, they know that I speak to everybody, from the person that comes in and cleans, cleans my spaces, to the the, the balls. Everybody's important. There's all. This is a moving part. Treat people how you want to be, how you want to be treated, with respect. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And don't dare think that they don't know more than you about certain things. You don't know everything, about everything.
Speaker 2:You don't know more than them. You only know what you know.
Speaker 1:Well, management also has this. The flaw, I would say, is that you have all these great resources around you and you don't have to know everything. It's okay to go. Well, charlie's an expert at this. Let me ask him this so I can do my job a little better, instead of going. I'm not going to ask because I don't want to show that I don't know as much as you. That kind of bull crap that always kind of makes a shitty manager.
Speaker 2:I had the luxury of moving around to different departments and I wasn't boost on the ground in a couple different departments. But over time, because of my leadership skills, I was able to learn what you guys are doing and apply my leadership to help you with your overall mission. Right, I don't have to know everything. You're the subject expert on it. Show me how you guys been doing it and then you know. It takes a lot to tell people hey, man, I don't know everything. Man, I was chosen to come over here and lead you guys.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I don't know who you supervise, but I can tell by the way you talk. Like when you left people were sad. That is another mark of a good supervisor.
Speaker 2:I appreciate my man. I know that sounds cliche, but I really did appreciate them. I know that sounds cliche, but I really did appreciate them and it was hard for me to move on because it was something that I've known, you know.
Speaker 1:And you felt like you were abandoning somebody. No, never felt abandoned.
Speaker 2:Really no, because I've been in this game long enough to know that, next up, no one's abandoned. Next up, no one's abandoned next up. But what I did feel was you know, okay, that camaraderie's camaraderie is is done, that chapter of my life is done. And whenever you open and close, close um chapters, well, whenever you close one am I gonna open up another one, and we talked on this before where you know, it felt it felt weird that I don't have to sell phones stay like bugging me about this, bugging me about that.
Speaker 2:You know I had a. You know what's my worth now mm-hmm well hey, man, I found out that I have. I'm very valuable.
Speaker 1:I remember first time I needed a laptop like I'm gonna have a laptop anymore the first time I lost my frickin personal phone in the house, right, you know what's craziest.
Speaker 2:And then you want to. You want to email someone. I say hey, can you call my number, but nine times out of ten I got the ringer off.
Speaker 1:So how is that going to help? So I got to listen.
Speaker 2:I'm going to tell you I got a system. As soon as I come in the house, I put everything in one spot.
Speaker 1:It's an adjustment period, right, and people don't realize how institutionalized that you are. And I'll give you like three quick examples, and one was involving me. Like I was at Sam's and I was ready to get in my car and a $5 bill like is going across the parking lot and I picked it up it wasn't on the fish line. Yeah, part of me was like it's my lucky day. And the other part of me was like should I do a property form for this or is this a setup? You know, it's like that, all that stuff that you've been ingrained like because you just don't keep money you find. And it's like that's a good rule of thumb as far as your your ethics right. And I had another friend who, uh, he, he went, he went to the gas station in his because he retired. Yeah, he went to the gas station to get gas and he, freaking, wrote the mileage down on his freaking hands because, he's been doing it for like 20 years, like those little institutionalized things.
Speaker 2:Recorders when you get to the city pole.
Speaker 1:But we do that as a whole and that's instilled. You might have had management say this is the best way to do this, or you want to instill like, hey, if you find money, find money. Yeah, you know nothing, things that preserve your career Right being on time. One guy was still setting his alarm like he had an off-duty job to go to. He jumped up. I was like, oh dude.
Speaker 2:Bro, I still do the same thing man.
Speaker 1:That's crazy man.
Speaker 2:I still do the same thing. And then, hey, I catch myself getting aggravated when I don't wake up at the time that I condition myself to wake up to. Yeah, or I even catch myself now oh, I got to get to bed.
Speaker 1:But check this out A lot of it's you, but a lot of it is, at some point, some managerial aspect of making you the person that you are to be efficient, because you're just describing efficiency Waking up and not oversleeping, not being late, making sure your models are down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, total accountability You're something green. And you know, like I said, those are a couple struggles with me. Who am I going to be accountable for? Right, you know my daughters are grown. You know they call and check up on me, but they got their stuff together. Who am I going to be accountable for?
Speaker 1:And just that whole identity thing as far as the managerial systems and everything. Those are things that I think as far as your systems as management.
Speaker 2:People need to more train you or teach you how to transition, because no one will help you. Well, that's funny because eventually I want this to lead to that where folks that are coming out of our profession talking to them, you know, getting them lined up to incorporate all those skills that's provided they want to, you know seek another career after they get done. I'm looking forward to developing something for those individuals that are interested in my message to them that, hey, look, look, that was your previous career. You can develop yourself something coming out and I can help. I can help you with that and that's something that I want, you know, get started for folks, you know, for folks within the next couple years.
Speaker 2:But first I had to get myself lined up and all the things that I've done so far share that with people that are coming out of a career such as ours, where they're young, and that includes military guys also.
Speaker 1:Yeah, services, and I wish I had a better understanding and I was watching it and it happened to me and that's where I call it a failure of overall management, including myself, like I had a you know how you have the influx of people that they're coming in and people are retiring out and attrition and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:I had like four or five people that I supervised that retired unless you were like a chosen one like everybody. I had like four or five people that I supervised that retired Unless you were like a chosen one like everybody. You know, if you were just like a worker, bee this administration, the human resources department and all that, they act like. These are people that have been doing something for 20, 25 years. There's no format on how to retire, there's a little thing, but nobody's ever retired before. So you kind of I've rented like a handful of people that were almost like made to feel like dumbasses because they didn't know how to retire, because everything changed routinely. Right, if I had a guy, I had.
Speaker 1:I did a memo for a guy and this is as far as being a management did a memo. You know, uh, you know, something's always wrong with a memo because nobody looks at the content. They're too worried about spacing and shit like that. So we finally get it right after going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, it passes through. The next guy retires.
Speaker 1:All I do is change the frickin' name and it's wrong. It's like why won't you just let people get out? You know what it's wrong. It's like why won't you just let people get out, like you said? You know what it's saying. And and the the spacing is too low and in this, that and other. And you know it's like let people go. This is stressful enough for them to retire, right? And? And just don't add that extra stress like they all happen. It happened, happen with me. It happened with my boss that retired and the people below me. Everybody had an issue. All the memos were wrong that were accepted a month before Because somebody came in and yeah, because everybody. One thing about cops they don't want to be like English majors, like I don't give a damn if it's spelled wrong or not, it's like Charlie's retiring. I don't give a damn if it's spelled wrong or not, it's like Charlie's retiring. That's all it really needs to say.
Speaker 2:On this date. Yeah, they're memorializers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like come on, man. But that goes back to another thing, the aspect of an adjustment that needs to be occurring in management, and it's more than just having turn it on a personal level. There are people that psychologically scarred for leaving, for no one's really. Either they're tired of the profession, or their drop time was up, or there was always some circumstance. They're just not. You know, they're mentally checked out. Yeah, and help them check out is all I'm saying.
Speaker 2:I would tell anybody to follow my philosophy. I use both. I use it both when I got out of the military after 10 years and I used it after I retired from the Marshal Service A year out from the projective date that you want to leave, that you're expected to leave. You need to start preparing to leave because it comes up quick and you need to get your ducks in the row and no matter how prepared, you are still gonna be scary.
Speaker 2:Yes, and thank you for adding that, no matter how prepared you are, that journey is still unknown. So why not make it easier on yourself by prepping yourself ahead of time? You prep yourself in the morning. You wake up, use the bathroom, you brush. So why not make it easier on yourself by prepping yourself ahead of time? You prep yourself in the morning. You wake up, you use the bathroom, you brush your teeth, you wash your face. Those are just normal practices that you routinely do.
Speaker 1:And a preaching on just things in the program. Like just employees in general, you need a reason to get up in the morning you need like just employees in general, you need a reason to get up in the morning you need. There's so many things that that I don't want to make it sound like management needs to hold your hand about things, but a lot of things are just taken for granted. Are you talking when you?
Speaker 2:say you need something to do. Are you talking about, as employee, why they're working or what well they retire?
Speaker 1:well what both actually. Just you know like, let somebody know what their duties are. Let let them be a professional and whatever they're you know like. Let somebody know what their duties are, let them be a professional in whatever they're you know. Let them do their job. Don't cover, don't micromanage. Help them leave. You know, one of the best supervisors I've ever had he was like he literally said, and this was like back in the 90s he's like my job is to help you go where you want to go, exactly, and that was rare back then, because a lot of people just want the worker bees to stay there as long as they can and they don't care if you grow up.
Speaker 2:I've never held anybody back from hey. Oh, you want me to relate what to who? Not a problem, Not a problem.
Speaker 1:You betrayed if you got transferred.
Speaker 2:What use are you to yourself and to the current team that you're on if you don't want to be there? What use are you? You're not valuable to yourself if you're not happy where you're at.
Speaker 1:Why be?
Speaker 2:in a relationship with something or someone that you don't want to be in.
Speaker 1:Well, my observations are, and the reason why I like what you're doing is because I think one thing I did not see before I left just where I am. I mean I'm grateful to work where I work, because it was like very diverse no-transcript, I'm not talking like processes of any agency or business.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying, as far as employee relations, well, I've been to a few of those. I've attended a few of those courses and a few of those schools throughout my career, throughout my career, and everything that you learn in those leadership seminars or course learning, you can apply that to your daily life. You can I mean not just you, not just your staff, but you can apply that to make your life easier and how you function and how you relate to people, both professionally and personally.
Speaker 2:The pure reach show that I'm doing is not just for business, it's also for personal use because, like I said, we're both in a transformation and and we're we have more time on our hands, yeah, and and more, more time to think and more time to think and we're going to be associating with more people in our personal lives than in our professional lives, unless you know, like this is our business yes, right, and we're.
Speaker 2:You know we're applying these techniques to one another and to also our colleagues and podcasts and speaking and what have you but we also need to apply these techniques to the culture that we have outside of podcasts and I don't see why, why anybody wouldn't want to listen to the show, and I hope that if anybody's listening to the show, if there's any topics that you want to talk about, let's see if we can, if we can, put period rate into that topic that you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Like, if you allow me, there's going to be other shows. Well, there's going to be plenty of other shows in the future that we're going to discuss and it's going to be on topics of taking care of the little things, putting people in their right place. You can read that for whatever way you want to read it, but sometimes you need to put people in the right place. You can read that for whatever way you want to read it, but sometimes you need to put people in the right place, for good and for bad, identifying character in everything, not just people, but in everything what's another good one, pointing out people's strengths.
Speaker 1:These are all topics that I have for us for in the future well, and that's what I was going to say, this is uh for folks listening. This is, this is an overall introduction to his new podcast and I'm going to uh my podcast. The seniority report is the podcast, but also I want to try to upload this on the YouTube because I have a channel called the Cutty Neck Bone Zone Cutty Neck that people love apparently.
Speaker 2:Why you don't let me buy that man. You should have let me bought that name. Come on, I try to give him a steak dinner for it, but he wouldn't sell it.
Speaker 1:But his podcast is going to be on both things and you know we're going to go ahead and call it because, like he said, we're going to like what he's got going can be broken down into segments and we won't. We're hitting an hour on the show right now but I'm just saying, yeah, but we're going to break it down, or I would think that he's going to break it down to maybe like 20 to 30-minute segments and go from there Be very more topic oriented. Charlie Shaw, thank you for coming in. Kevin, appreciate you, bro. Always that workout this morning. Folks, look at this guy.
Speaker 2:Look at you, man. I'm still trying to drop some.
Speaker 1:No, we're doing good man. Thanks for having me be able to talk to you about your show, and I totally appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Thank you for your time, bro. I'll see you in another week or two. You got it.