Could you imagine transforming from a disenchanted accountant to an outdoor gear innovator? Sam from Alton Goods did just that. He traded in balance sheets for rugged landscapes, inspired by his childhood camping trips and experiences with the Duke of Edinburgh program. Listen as he recounts the pivotal moment that spurred him to leave a secure corporate job and plunge into the uncertain but exhilarating world of entrepreneurship. Discover the origins of Alton Goods, named after Alton National Park, and how their first product—an ultralight hammock—set the stage for a thriving business.
As the conversation unfolds, we delve into the success story of Alton Goods, which saw an unexpected boost during the COVID-19 pandemic when outdoor activities became the go-to escape. Sam shares fascinating insights into the durability and cost-effectiveness of his products, backed by customer testimonials and the strategic advantage of their direct-to-consumer model. Learn about the innovative development of their Nanopore fabric, a game-changer in breathable and waterproof technology, steering clear of harmful chemicals and offering unparalleled performance.
Finally, we touch on the vital importance of community connections in the outdoor niche. Sam shares personal stories about meeting influential figures like Gordon Dedman and how these relationships have evolved into valuable collaborations. Whether you’re an outdoor enthusiast interested in hammock camping and temperature control solutions or an aspiring entrepreneur looking to understand the nuances of product development and networking, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge and inspiration. Join us for an engaging discussion that goes beyond the gear, highlighting the passion and perseverance behind Alton Goods.
For the latest information, news, giveaways and anything mentioned on the show head over to our Facebook, Instagram or website.
If you have a question, comment, topic, gear review suggestion or a guest that you'd like to hear on the show, shoot an email to accuratehunts@gmail.com or via our socials.
Could you imagine transforming from a disenchanted accountant to an outdoor gear innovator? Sam from Alton Goods did just that. He traded in balance sheets for rugged landscapes, inspired by his childhood camping trips and experiences with the Duke of Edinburgh program. Listen as he recounts the pivotal moment that spurred him to leave a secure corporate job and plunge into the uncertain but exhilarating world of entrepreneurship. Discover the origins of Alton Goods, named after Alton National Park, and how their first product—an ultralight hammock—set the stage for a thriving business.
As the conversation unfolds, we delve into the success story of Alton Goods, which saw an unexpected boost during the COVID-19 pandemic when outdoor activities became the go-to escape. Sam shares fascinating insights into the durability and cost-effectiveness of his products, backed by customer testimonials and the strategic advantage of their direct-to-consumer model. Learn about the innovative development of their Nanopore fabric, a game-changer in breathable and waterproof technology, steering clear of harmful chemicals and offering unparalleled performance.
Finally, we touch on the vital importance of community connections in the outdoor niche. Sam shares personal stories about meeting influential figures like Gordon Dedman and how these relationships have evolved into valuable collaborations. Whether you’re an outdoor enthusiast interested in hammock camping and temperature control solutions or an aspiring entrepreneur looking to understand the nuances of product development and networking, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge and inspiration. Join us for an engaging discussion that goes beyond the gear, highlighting the passion and perseverance behind Alton Goods.
For the latest information, news, giveaways and anything mentioned on the show head over to our Facebook, Instagram or website.
If you have a question, comment, topic, gear review suggestion or a guest that you'd like to hear on the show, shoot an email to accuratehunts@gmail.com or via our socials.
Music. It's an early morning and that's when it starts to get really cold. Mm-hmm. And one kept my butt dry, yep, but you've got the foil on the bottom, yep, it actually gives you a bum warm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, gordon Dedman from Bushcraft Survival Australia. So I had bushcrafters buying our gear so I wanted to learn everything about bushcraft. So I went and did three of his courses. Yeah, did you know that was no, some smartass put a comment on there saying it's a marketing company or something or other, but I only knew about that when I saw the sort of get uploaded. I had no idea. Yeah, it's awesome, it's fantastic. Like, yeah, it's um. One of those moments where you're like, oh, wow, like people really believe in us, like that's so good, like we've been working hard to make these good products and welcome back to another episode of accurate hunared Hunts.
Speaker 1:A wife outdoors, but today we're actually indoors with Outdoors Company. Welcome to the show, sam. Thanks, dodge, thanks for having me. This is Sam from Alton Goods and a bit of a journey on. This. One Reached out to Sam and he said oh, we're in Brisbane. I said, oh, okay, I'll be there in a few days. So we're flying up to spend the day here and see what's going on in the factory, check out the products and have a bit of chat and see if we can swindle them into getting some hunting-related content happening on the socials, always open.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having us. No, thank you. Thanks for coming up to this little bush hut. We've got out in the sticks yes, in the sticks, a couple of hours west of Brisbane. The sticks meaning pine pallets.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I guess western brisbane the sticks meaning pine pallets.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I guess, but uh, what does alton mean? What? Where's the word come from? So it's actually the name of a national park in western queensland. So alton national park, um, you have some affinity with it. I really like western queensland. Um, my old man's from charleville so um done a few trips out there and was inspired by like the just the ruggedness of the place and it's just sort of like impossible to survive out there almost. So that sort of inspired me to sort of yeah, like with the gear that we create, we want it to be really hardy, really tough and for those like really tough parts of Australia.
Speaker 1:So now you think you can survive out there.
Speaker 2:No no, no, it's a no way, but, um, look, it was, it was that, but the name also looked really cool. So there's um, there's no denying that. I saw the name and I was like, oh, that that looks pretty cool as well. Um, it's got like a good, nice and short, good structure to it. It's also a sort of the start. Yeah, that's something I never thought about. But, um, I remember doing a trade show down in Melbourne and like we were top of the list and I was like, oh, you know, we're nobody's in the back. Your hands, ac. Yeah, there you go, there you go. So you've done the same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not on purpose, but and at start, like you know, this is from a personal venture of you're into backpack and hiking yeah, so, yeah.
Speaker 2:So through school, I mean as a kid, my parents always took us camping, probably because we couldn't afford to do any other holidays, but it was, you know, looking back, it was like it's just really fond memories as a kid, going camping with mum and dad and my siblings. And then in high school I got into Duke of Edinburgh, which is like for those of you that don't know, it's like an outdoor program among other things. You do some community service and whatnot, but a big part of it is the expeditions. So myself and my close mates at high school did a lot of stuff with Duke of Edinburgh and that really, like you know, as teenagers, like got us into this sort of thing that we really loved doing. You know we love getting nice gear and going out and doing cool trips. And then, yeah, into uni.
Speaker 2:I continued that on with my mates. We'd go hiking, camping, all sorts of stuff, bit of hunting, and I became an accountant out of university and I hated it. So I did that for five years, got my CA. Just couldn't stand like one more day in that office. It just was not for me. So I guess I had a bit of a mid-twenties crisis and I resigned and I looked within and was like what am I actually passionate about? Like what do I want to do as a job? Because this isn't working for me, I'm not happy, Like I'm not enjoying it, it's making me a grumpy person. So I pretty much like just set out and said I'm going to start a business doing camping gear. And yeah, that's sort of how the story started. What was your first product? First product was a ultralight hammock. How do you even start that process.
Speaker 1:Not many people in Australia make those things.
Speaker 2:No, okay. So about a year before I resigned from my full-time job, maybe a couple of years before I actually had started, alton on the side with a mate and we were both working in retail. He worked at Country Road, I worked at Meijer. We liked selling, we liked camping, that whole passion thing. We were like let's start a little business on the side and see what happens. And I think at the time we were kind of looking at like overseas, what's like big, and we saw these ultralight hammocks in America were popular. So, yeah, we just jumped on Alibaba and we started looking. We're like, all right, we'll start with a hammock, yeah, and we got a batch put in a couple of grand each and sold them to mates mainly. But yeah, a couple of years later we started to see like we'd get an order and be like, oh, is this?
Speaker 1:one of your mates.
Speaker 2:Like no, that's not one of my mates, oh, this must be like a real customer. And then, yeah, when I quit my job, I sort of bought him out and I went alone. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Started with the hammock.
Speaker 2:Yeah yep.
Speaker 1:So if anyone's looking for any products, it's alibabacom. It's got to start somewhere, that's it.
Speaker 2:Obviously developed some big relationships since then. Yeah, and like you, look at our hammock today. Nothing like that. Oh no, it's like the ninth iteration. So, yeah's, you can get. There's plenty of alibaba hammocks out there, um, and there's brands that sell off the shelf hammocks. But yeah, ours is real, it's one of our most thought through products because it's the oldest, um, there's like the most variations over the time.
Speaker 2:yeah, we use like a six-way ripstop nylon which I I don't think there's any other brand on the market that uses that. It means we can use a really lightweight fabric. It's super strong. We use the tie-out loops and the straps on the trees are made of UHMWPE, which is essentially unbranded Dyneema Strongest fabric material in the world, I think. It's stronger than steel, they say. And yeah, I've got the double-ended storage bag which means you can like deploy it really quickly. Anyway, it's a nice bit of kit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll go through it. We'll take a video of us using it at some point. What's its weight limit?
Speaker 2:Because I'm a tiny guy. Yeah, it can hold 300 kilograms. So yeah, I've not met anyone that goes over 300 kilos. Beau, you asked me to ask that question. You can fit two people in there if you need it.
Speaker 1:There's your answer Two skinny people and I'll stick on the hammock for a second. I actually haven't hopped in it and I will when we're finished. But the general in my mind and question from other people when I see them using it is do you just end up in a bunch? Because our centre of gravity is our top torso sectional, it's not the middle of our body. Do you think you find yourself slouching down?
Speaker 2:to the bottom of it. Yeah, so look, hammocks are different for everyone, right? But if you go down the real nerdy kind of hammock camper route, you do what's called like a diagonal lay. So if you turn your body on a diagonal you can get completely flat. But personally, like it doesn't worry me, I sit in there as a banana and I'm comfortable. So it just comes down to personal preference. But you can get that flat lay if you do the diagonal.
Speaker 1:And you're also not, you know, travelling with a full Hilton hotel.
Speaker 2:The idea is you're lightweight, exactly, you're trying to be as comfortable as you can without carrying as much yeah, yeah, it eliminates the need for, like, a sleeping mat and that sort of thing so you can, like you said, you can hold sleeping system right down to a super compact little fundle.
Speaker 1:Now why does the sleeping system go on? So you started with the hammock and then you're into bags yeah, so I think the tarp was like one of our.
Speaker 2:The tarp was one of our early like successful, you know products that got a lot of um sort of people interested in the brand um. And then from that we sort of like we marketed that tarp as something that could be used over a hammock system or a ground system. So we sort of use that as like, like our sort of um capstone and then under that hammock sleeping system and then we developed a ground sleeping system. So we did the um. You know, the whole range of sleeping mats started out with one mat and now we've got probably seven or eight different varieties of sleeping mat, um that. So you've got the ground system and the hammock system and then we'll probably eventually do a tent as well. But yeah, I guess we we sort of just follow where our customers kind of want us to go and there's input from with internally. But yeah, we're not, we're not married to any idea or anything like that.
Speaker 1:We're open-minded and keen to try different things and you mentioned your customers traditionally, where they come from and sort of what are they using your products for?
Speaker 2:So it's funny Like the brand has kind of gone in a direction based on where our customers were coming from early on. And then personally I got interested in those spaces and it's interesting how the journey goes. But early on we had an oliveoured hammock and we started getting bushcrafters buying this hammock because bushcrafters were interested in ways that they could have a compact sleep system, that they could bring minimal equipment and have a place to sleep. So I started getting into bushcraft and looking into bushcraft. This was six, seven years ago and yeah, we sort of took quite a bushcrafty direction in the brand and now we're broadening out to other sort of outdoor spaces. But bushcraft was definitely like a big influence in where the brand started.
Speaker 1:And I know we spoke about it off air, but the impact of COVID and like the timing of your business, yeah, and then that causing yeah.
Speaker 2:So I mean there were obviously a lot of unfortunate things that happened during COVID, but for us it was actually like a really good boost for the business. You had a lot of people that couldn't go overseas and, you know, started holidaying in their backyard, which was great. There were big brands that ran out of stock, so people came to us and during that kind of whole scaremongering phase of COVID, bushcraft became really big because it was all about how can I survive in the bush and survive Coals run out of food? Yeah, if coals runs out of food or the electricity grid breaks down, how can I survive? So yeah, it was really fortunate for us. It really helped boost the business and brought a whole lot of new eyeballs to the brand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, full disclosure. I haven't known about Alton that long, to be honest, but I had two clients recently, jack's one of them sitting over there and I had a friend of mine, dr Yannick, come on on a hunt and they both had a fair amount of your stuff and Yannick's got the full sleeping system, hammock, ground set up as well and car. I've got sleeping quarters set up at my block where we hunt and he's like nah, it's all good, I've got my own. I was like you're an idiot. Anyway, he set it up and we had rain and hail and all sorts of things and he was substantially dry and he was quite happy about that. I was like what is that stuff he said out on? He said it three times, which means my Facebook algorithm jumped on yeah, it's good, and now it's all been seeing in the ads?
Speaker 2:Has he had our gear for a long time, yannick, I?
Speaker 1:feel like yeah.
Speaker 2:Because that name rings a bell. He's in WA.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sure a fair bit opposed to him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Because back in the day, like early on, we were writing handwritten notes to every customer Right and that name rings a bell Because it's a terrible one to spell. Oh, that's probably why it stands out as well. Oh.
Speaker 1:Yannick, but no, so they introduced me and I could see it online and obviously it was getting pushed to me through the sponsored ads and things. But looking through the products I'm like man, there's a whole lot of crossover into what my interests are in the hunting which is outside of the guiding is the backpacking and the backcountry stuff. Yep, and I know we spoke this morning about the sizes of things and how small you've been able to get it, and one of the things you put up is a photo of sort of where you started with something and then every couple of years the product's getting smaller. Yeah, that's our hammock, the one I was. Yeah, so like, how far can you push it? Like where does it just end up as a little.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting Like we focus on ultralight but to be honest, it's not like the one thing. So when it starts to degrade, like the durability of the product, we stop. So you'll find like our products aren't the lightest, they're lighter. The lighter ones are more expensive and in some cases, less durable. So we just try and find that middle ground. We try and have the best of both worlds of ultralight but ultra-durable. So yeah, the approach I've had with this brand from the beginning is like bang for buck. You know that's money and that's also like carrying weight. So you don't want to carry something that's just going to blow over in the next gust of wind. You know you want something that's going to last and be tough, but you don't want something that's super heavy either.
Speaker 1:I mentioned to a few people that was coming up here to have the chat and they're like oh, that's pretty cool. This stuff seems to be on par, if not better than the big names, but at a better price point. So that's definitely working and being noticed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that comes with being a direct-to-consumer brand. You can try and stay that way. Yeah, and that comes with being a direct to consumer brand. So it's um, yeah, absolutely so. Like we, we aim to have our products spec as the same as the really high end brands. Um, but we have the benefit that we're selling online direct to the customer, so we don't have to. Um, you know, the the store doesn't need to make a profit. Where we make the profit, which means we don't need to make, we don't need to sell it as high a price you can make 30% selling to the public, or you can make 30% selling wholesale.
Speaker 2:Exactly that's right. And then the wholesaler will add up their 50, 100% on top of that.
Speaker 1:And that makes it tricky. And obviously during the development process you've had some fails along the way and things that just didn't work for you yeah, the stories of getting massively wet, or there's things that didn't work oh, honestly, I try and I try and bury those like there's been so many.
Speaker 2:There's been so many sleepless nights I was telling jack off air about. Um, he said to me. The comment he made was our color seems to be a really important thing and I'm like, yeah, you know it's. It's very important that everything looks the same and everything's the same colour. It's part of our brand now and we did have a, which is not why we're colour-coded. Yeah, we should have been wearing all of it. We did have a batch of products which has sold through now and I won't mention, but the colour was off by like a fraction and I'm I'm a pretty big perfectionist and, like my staff will tell you, there are a bad couple of days.
Speaker 2:After that came through, I was like I was just depressed, like I was like I can't, we're not, we're going to figure out a way to just we're gonna have to get rid of all this product, like we're gonna have to bin it. We can't sell this Customer's, we can't sell this. Did customers notice? No one's noticed ever. Yep, literally no one. Free returns on those products. No, there's nothing wrong with the product and, to be honest, it was.
Speaker 2:It just shows the attention to detail yeah it was internal, Like I had good people around me saying mate, like you're overthinking this one.
Speaker 1:I get that as a business owner, it's important to have that consistency and continuity. I mean we try to do it with what we do. Yeah, I notice it here. I mean everything is consistently green. Yeah, except there's some shirts over there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so with the… there's breaking colour. Yeah, with apparel it's obviously a little bit different. People want to, you know, not wear the same colour every day. We're not, like I've said, we're not married to anything, you know. We're open to the next thing and we'll eventually do different colours. It's been a financial thing, the colour idea. So it's instead of having to buy, like you know, 3,000 of something because it's three different colours, we can buy 1,000, which means we can bring out two other new products. That's the reason we've done the whole olive colour and, to be honest, I love it and a lot of customers love it too. You're married to it now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, on the crossover conversation I purchased a couple of weeks ago this is your fold-out the closed-cell mat, the closed-cell mat and the same version but in the sitting pad, and I've laid on the mat inside. I haven't taken it hunting yet, but I've been out and used the sitting pad and Jack said something this morning and I hadn't considered it. But that time when you're doing that glassing is late afternoon and early morning and that's when it starts to get really cold. And one kept my butt dry, yep, but you've got the foil, yeah, on the bottom, yep, that actually keeps your bum warm. Yeah, that's right, and it's a stronger pattern, you're saying, than the lay down one, because you know you've got a lot more weight on a smaller.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the pointy sort of bum bones that go into it. It's just that little bit thicker and what's it weigh overall? Oh, you're putting me on the spot here. I reckon it's 200 and something grand it's even less than that, is it?
Speaker 1:It's not fair. Anyway, we'll check that out and correct that.
Speaker 2:It's not much anyway.
Speaker 1:It's super light and tiny, but it's not something I ever carried. You just dealt with it. Yeah yeah, but to add that to the pack because it's not something I would carry on every hunt. But if I know there's an opportunity to sit and wait, it just goes in there now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it takes up no space as well, Folds down inside itself.
Speaker 1:I actually used it as a we had a little fire going and I actually put it up around it as well. Yeah right, turn it the other way, and it pushed the heat back to where you got it far enough away it doesn't catch a light.
Speaker 2:Could you?
Speaker 1:So if we get away from the sleeping system, you've also gone into, I mean, where titanium and things and there on the light. You nearly burnt your finger when you dipped your finger in because titanium is not doing your heat things. But you've got cook sets as well and stoves. What?
Speaker 2:else have we got in the cookware? So yeah, we've got essentially your whole kitchen. So you've got cutlery cups, bowls, plates, what about your little Cookware?
Speaker 1:Yeah, your little stove.
Speaker 2:The twig stove. Yeah yeah, you can see that just out over there Does it take long to boil. No, it's really quick. It gets super hot compared to a Like a jet boil. When you look at a jet boil it's got quite a narrow stream of gas. But yeah, you can put as much twigs in there as you want to and really get it firing.
Speaker 1:One benefit of the jet boil is you can't fly with gas. Yeah, We've all been there, you can always get twigs.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I've been pulled up in the airport with that too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the benefit too is it packs flat, so it just packs into. I saw that. I saw that it's like less than 10 mil thick. Yeah, it's been such a successful product.
Speaker 1:I'm not defying everything unless you're above the snow line somewhere in New Zealand? Exactly, yeah, but the one thing I was really excited about seeing here was your new waterproof material. Yeah, yep. So the nano-pointer I want to get into the nitty-gritty in that because it's something that's really important in my pack. Even if it's 38 degrees and sunny, my reindeer Yep, people don't pack it. I always pack it, because even a summer storm at the wrong time of day, ruin your trip. Ruin your trip, yep. So how did you end up like it's a new product into Australia and I haven't worn the clothing, but I've seen the way the fabric works.
Speaker 2:There's one behind you, actually that's an early sample. There's one behind you, actually, that's an early sample Right Green of course. Yeah, this one's actually got green zips on it, but we went with the black for a bit of contrast in the bulk order.
Speaker 1:Mix it up a bit, yeah, but what's the design of the fabric and why is it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's a three-layer fabric. So listeners will be familiar with some of the big brands out there like Gore-Tex, pertex. They're three-layer breathable fabrics. So the benefit of them is waterproof but let air through, so breathable essentially like a breathable rain jacket, because if you want to keep rain off yourself, you can wrap a garbage bag around you and keep water off, but you'll sweat inside it.
Speaker 2:So we yeah, there was, it was pretty fortuitous, like right place, right time Met a fabric scientist who worked at a big fabric company in the US and went out on his own, wanted to work with someone to develop a three-layer breathable fabric, but one that was made in a more sustainable manner to some of the other big brands. There's some pretty nasty chemicals and whatnot in those other fabrics and also, once you're done with them, they don't biodegrade very well. So, yeah, we worked with this guy and we developed Nanopore over about a year and a half and it's, yeah, it performs at that high level like super breathable, super waterproof, over 20,000 breathability and waterproof. But it's that more sustainable approach. It doesn't have the carcinogens in it that some of these other fabrics do, but yeah, it's been, it's been awesome, like it's so cool to like have a like.
Speaker 2:We're not the biggest brand in the world, but to have, like, this market leading fabric is pretty awesome. Um, it's, yeah, it's been super exciting and it's, um it's, it's really helped us sort of like get the brand out there and, um, get people interested. So it's been perfect for the jacket and the swag having that breathability and waterproofness and, yeah, we're keen to like bring out, you know, future products using this fabric.
Speaker 1:How do you treat it long term? One issue I have with my rain gear is it's waterproof initially. But then one thing I did a lot of horse riding in Canada and you'd wear your waterproof stuff but just the branches you would push it through was actually pushing the water in. Yeah, it wasn't drip, it was drip proof, but not from this constant and the snow would fall on your lap while you're riding and would just work its way into the fabric and I hadn't treated it very well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's some like important care. Yeah, so the. The beauty of this fabric is that it doesn't need to be treated. So, um, ever, ever, yeah so the. The way that, like a lot of these other fabrics, work is they've got waterproof coatings on them right, and then after a year or two you're told to you know, respray it with um, with the water repellent, um sort of chemical. Essentially. Ours, ours has a membrane, so the middle layer of the three layers is a membrane. It's essentially got nanoscopic holes in it that allow air to go through but won't let the water-sized molecules back through. So it's hardware. There's nothing like it doesn't wear away or anything like that. Like a chemical on the outside does a coating. It's not a treatment. Exactly so it's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it doesn't need to be treated is the short answer to your question. Yeah, yeah, it's pricey though. Yeah, you know, if you get a jacket that's just like a single waterproof coating on it, it's going to cost less. But you know this has been a gear wheel last year for you know many years. What's the price point? So the jackets are $479 at time of recording and the swag is $699.
Speaker 1:I've paid $700 for a waterproof jacket.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look it's a lot of money, but it's not at the top right, it's still not at the top. Yeah, like the competitor. Like I said, it's for serious, serious expedition, yeah, like $479 for a three-layer jacket is great value, but it's a lot of money for the average punter. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I get that, but if you're getting the longevity of it, that's right. It's something you're going to use all the time. Exactly, I've seen you, you know, couple up with a couple of people and you've got the Alcon edit that sits in here, yep, and you do some things. How do those sort of relationships come about and how have you seen that grow the business?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, like we often get asked this question, a majority of our relationships have been really organic customers. Yeah, so, like scotty's like probably you know one of the biggest people we work with and he just bought one of our products as a customer back in like 2016 probably. Um, I was working out of my garage at home and I'd just gone off out by myself, away from my business partner, um, and yeah, like I look back and I'm like embarrassed, the product we sold Scotty right, because it was just such an. We were early on like we didn't know anything back then. Um, but yeah, we just sort of grew together.
Speaker 2:You know, scotty's become massive and, um, you know, we've grown as well and it's just been a symbiotic, kind of like organic friendship I suppose. And then in recent years we've we've brought out like a product together and it's become a little bit more formal and that sort of thing. But, um, yeah, that was really organic. And then, you know, through scotty meet people like silly and um, yeah, it's the outdoor community, I feel it's not that big in Australia.
Speaker 2:You sort of get to know people and become friends and then, yeah, you work together on things. So we might work together on something, who knows.
Speaker 1:Stay tuned, we'll work on that.
Speaker 2:What's it like for you? How do you meet people?
Speaker 1:I talk to a lot of people yeah, a lot of people, and I'm always on the phone. My wife says to me why are you always on the phone? And then she'll say I use this example, I gave this the other day and it hasn't happened, but it's an example. We've got this antique piece of china. Do you know anyone that can help me appraise that? I'm like, yes, I do, that's such and such and such and such, because I speak to such, that's niche, you know. So that's the problem. I, I talk to people and then I find out their niche strengths, yeah, and then I just make that in my terrible memory. And you know, and then at some point I really I thrive on connecting people, yeah, people, yeah, and that's the guiding I. You know, I take people hunting, I watch them enjoy something, and then I get my enjoyment out of it. I can connect them with a memory or experience yeah, another good.
Speaker 2:Another good example is Gordon Dedman from Bushcraft Survival Australia. So I had bushcrafters buying our gear so I wanted to learn everything about bushcraft. So I went and did three of his courses. Which ones did you do? One, two, three, yeah, up to the. To be honest, in the earliest one I did the structures changed since then but I did like an intermediate. All of them were up in Darwin and you know like I could turn up on day one and not know anything. And now, like I talk with Gordon on the phone and we discuss product ideas and I get his feedback Never a short conversation with Gordon either.
Speaker 1:I spent a couple of days with Gordon on two different courses.
Speaker 2:I spent a couple of days on the phone with him, yeah.
Speaker 1:That I spent a couple of days on two different courses. I spent a couple of days on the phone with him yeah, that's before he gets to talking about products. We supplied him with a heap of skins. He had a Teresa lady come over from the States.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:The skin tending course. I supplied the skins for those courses and she's coming back again. But yeah, he's a great conversation. Yeah, a lot of knowledge, definitely in that area, but that's a great connection from your business point of view.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and again it was all organic, like I did a course with him, had a beer with him after the course, started chatting on the phone. You know, just friendships that sounds like.
Speaker 1:Gordon, where's it going? Where you are now is not where you imagined you'd be.
Speaker 2:no, no, not at all.
Speaker 1:Uh, yeah, it's did you have imaginary goals and you've smashed them, or they're just different directions or, um, like, what's the nice to have at five years time? Obviously you got this beautiful warehouse and space yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Like I, I think it constantly evolves. When I was working as an accountant in an office, I hoped to have something in my garage at home, and when I was doing that, I hoped to have a small warehouse, which then, when I had the small warehouse, I want to have a bigger warehouse. So I think it just evolves. Don't try and think too far ahead and as to where it goes. Like it, yeah, that changes. Like it, it goes where our customers sort of want it to go and the team like now I've got a few staff around me, so where you know we talk internally, um, and you know, we've seen in the last five, six years, things change. Like things change quickly. So it, yeah, we're just trying to not think too far ahead. We just try and make sure that what we're doing is the best we can do for ourselves, for the customers, for everyone involved. Try and just keep high quality, high attention to detail and just make sure we're enjoying ourselves.
Speaker 1:I want to circle back to your swag build that you did with Scotty. One thing I've been dealing with lately is the last 18 months is an incredible amount of leeches down in our area. Okay, and we just had a local hunting club had a trip up to Nundle State Forest and I couldn't make it, but the leeches up there have been really bad and there's a story about one guy doing the serve bill of salt around his swag on the ground.
Speaker 2:Yeah right.
Speaker 1:Okay and I'm interested. I can see that they can't get in, but what went into the design of a swag.
Speaker 2:So that's actually the bug net tent A swag's a different product which is not on display because we're sold out.
Speaker 1:You sold a display model.
Speaker 2:We just don't put it here because then people come in and go I want that one and we need to keep a couple, you know. Um, so this product here, um, that was and this is the bug net tent for people who obviously can't see it. Um, that was really designed around the like Northern Territory dry season. That's really what it was aimed towards. Um, there was and this is this is myself and Gordon chatting this product. So, um, for those of you that are familiar, like the military in Australia uses like a box bug net. Um, we actually ended up making a box bug net with, like a built-in floor, which you know was something that we heard. It was missing and like, keep going down that road. And we ended up with this product, which there were things.
Speaker 2:There were issues with the box bug net that the military uses. It's like a bit of a nightmare to set up. You've got four corners that need to tie out. You can't like put it up standalone. So that you know, there were just little bits and pieces with that that we wanted to improve and, yeah, we landed on this and people often ask oh, it's not waterproof, what do you do if it rains? The idea of this product is it's modular. It's designed really for a dry season sort of climate going out when you know there's not going to be rain and if there is rain you can bring a light, shelter um, and then those two, exactly yeah, and it's all modular. It's like you only take what you need, yeah, and it packs down pretty small too oh nothing, yeah, size of a water bottle.
Speaker 1:But uh, and what about the swag? I mean, so I have a swag, yeah. So that I mean, like every other one has a swag big canvas yep thing that's this side, this round and yep, yeah. So that, like every other one has a swag, a big canvas thing that's this size this round.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, so that was like a….
Speaker 1:Is the swag a backpack item?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. Yeah, so Scotty actually came to me and was like you know, there's room for a swag. That's not massive, like we all know. Now you drive down the highway and people have got the swags on their roof because they don't fit in the car. Like that's how big they are, the big king's doubles. Yeah, they need a trailer for the swag.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, bigger than a tent, when they're meant to be smaller. So, and it was funny because he came to me with that and I was like I've actually been thinking about the same thing for a couple of years and then from there we sort of, yeah, got to work on designing it and it's simple, it's a swag that packs down small. You don't have to, you know, have a trailer to carry it. So it's probably like a little bit heavier than like taking a tent, but it's a different thing. It's a different experience, as we all know, like the joy of sleeping in a swag. Right, it's nicer than sleeping in a tent. You're a little bit more exposed to the environment. Um, I'm for hunting. It's probably better because you want more visibility.
Speaker 1:Um yeah, that's how it came about. Yeah, well, I'm, and we've got all these yeah, we've got a. We've got a safe out the back I was uh going through the products with the what and she's like, oh, I want, I want the double sleeping mat. I don't need it. We've got the big double king swag.
Speaker 2:Now it feels like we're going to end up with another swag. Yeah, all of our stuff's really been quite individual and I think it probably lends itself to our customer. As we speak, we're mainly like a male consumers probably 75, 80 percent um guys that are doing hardcore activities like you know hunting, bushcraft, etc. So that generally lends itself to an individual style sleep setup. But recently, you know, there's been a lot more couples um shopping from us so we moved into that double sleeping mat and we've got other double sleep setups in the works, most likely one of these bug net tents in a double size, um. But yeah, all that stuff's happening in the background. That's a double size. You just need to spoon each other. Yeah, exactly, it'd be a comfortable night. They'd be very close yeah, I, yeah.
Speaker 1:I want to have a tip. If there's any stories in your back catalogue of your own personal camping trips, yeah, and you're like, how have you incorporated your products into your own trips? And I think about the swag versus the hammock set up. A lot of the places I hunt doesn't have a flat spot. Yeah, it's got trees, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, look to be honest with you, I'm probably more of a ground sleeper. I've used the hammock system. There are so many benefits with hammock camping, right, because you're not on the ground, you're up off the wet. It packs down small et cetera Temperature, yeah, so with the hammock there's two solutions to temperature. You can put a sleeping mat inside it which will block the wind flow under your back because they're quite breathable, which is great for summer. But there's also an underquilt which I don't know if you can see that over there. That's an underquilt. Essentially it's a sleeping bag that wraps around the bottom of your body. Um, it's a big investment. You want to be a pretty keen hammock camper but it's honestly I, if I was going to the snow like I think that would be the most comfortable, most warm out of the weather setup you could have is under quilt, top quilt hammock. No matter like what sleeping mat you're using, it's got a huge R value. You were down in the snow. It's going to be cold, it's going to be a bit uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:But to answer your question about personal experience, I actually had back in the day like a fully nylon bivy, right. So a bivy is essentially a lightweight swag. Our product could be called a bivvy and yeah, I was like this is fantastic. It packs down so small, it was like $150 because it was nylon and yeah, I slept out in it a bunch of times. Then one night the rain came through and like I slept out in it a bunch of times. Then one night the rain came through and like it was all sealed up and just the condensation, like it was just I woke up. I mean, I didn't even fall asleep, I was covered in water and that's the reason that we went for this breathable material. Right is, if it gets humid in there which when you're breathing all night, if you're all shut up, it gets humid, it escapes. Exactly, it has a way to escape. And yeah, I mean, this was just a. I've never used it again, it was a piece of junk, it was just a capsule of water really Back to the hammocks.
Speaker 1:You spoke about a sleeping. What do you call it? The top piece? Top quill, top quill? You spoke about it sleeping. What do you call it? The top piece, top quilt, top quilt? Yes, and I don't know who it was recently. It actually might have been Jack, but talking about sleeping bags, when you're laying on them, there's no benefit to the piece because it's all compressed, that's right. Yes, so the warmth in a bag comes from the loftiness of the material trapping your body heat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it doesn't work. When you um the, the air gets trapped in the feathers and warmed up by your body. So if the feathers are flat, the air can't get trapped in anything. So, yeah, technically, with a sleeping bag, the bit that your body's weight is on is flattened and it's got no use. So that's, that was the reason behind bringing out quilts.
Speaker 2:A quilt is essentially a sleeping bag. It's got the back cut out of it. Um, still a tubular of your feet, yep, still tubular. Oh, there's different varieties. Ours closes in fully around your feet. Some of them can zip open. We went for the fully wrapped in, um, like closed in one, because there's a way, that sort of like, you can get through a zip and in in. In my mind you're only using it when it's cold, you know. So that's why we went for the closed in and we like to keep things simple, less things to break. But yeah, that's the whole benefit of a quilt. And then, by removing that section out of the back, you can go a little bit wider. So you're, like you know, more like your bed at home, a bit more comfortable, and it's also lighter because you've removed that whole section from your back, but in saying that, like there's something snug and and secure about a sleeping bag, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly, and you know, I know that I roll around a lot, so it, which you can do in a quilt, but you know, with a sleeping bag you might want to roll and then that down will, will lost out. You know the bit that you've just lifted up, but the thing about a quilt, too, is that you have to have a good sleeping mat, because that will create that warmth under your body.
Speaker 1:One thing that Yannick had, and it's just sleeping mat cover.
Speaker 2:The fitted sheet, the pillow.
Speaker 1:That's important. I've spent a lot of time sleeping mats and age and the time you're next to it. Yeah, like you slip off. Yep, it just pops out the side yeah, so the fit half, you're not getting back on it.
Speaker 2:The fitted sheet was like such a simple yeah, it's a simple idea but like, no, I'm no of one other brand that doesn't, they're really rare and, um, there's a few benefits to it. Like you said, it gives you that extra grip so you don't slip off. It holds your pillow in place, which is great because you don't lose it during the night. And the other one the big one is a sleeping mat is a completely like impenetrable plastic or nylon, right when you think about it, so you're going to sweat and stick to it by having that sheet. Yeah, and it just creates that like softness of like a bed at home.
Speaker 1:So again, if you're in this, you know the Flynet one in summer and you've got that on there. You don't really need a sleeping bag, you could just lay on it.
Speaker 2:You could yeah, you really could or you could use like our. We've got like a summer sleeping bag, packs down super, super tiny and it's just that little bit of like cover for the morning. You know when that little bit of coolness comes through just before sunrise.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where do we see it going product-wise in the future? I mean, just filled up your eskies with the baskets and the dividers. Yeah, with the crates over there and then getting into the clothing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so look, there's a lot of sampling happening in the background. If I had to categorise, like where it was going, it's probably like more of the same, I guess, with just like sort of minor movements into new categories. But yeah, like a lot of sleeping system stuff happening. And then probably the biggest area that we want to get more into is bags and packing and that sort of stuff. There's been a lot of requests from customers for that. So yeah, it's taken a bit of time but we want to get it right. So you know, we have to sample quite a bit and get the materials right and the designs right and all that sort of stuff. It takes time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does. I saw the other day on your VIP page on Facebook. Jack put the photo up but your sleeping bag got used on alone. Yeah yeah, did you know that was?
Speaker 2:No, some smartass put a comment on there saying, oh, it's a marketing company or something or other. But I only knew about that when I saw it get uploaded. I had no idea. Yeah, it's awesome, it's fantastic. Yeah, it's one of those moments where you're like, oh wow, people really believe in us. That's so good. We've been working hard to make these good products, especially that show. I mean good products and especially that show.
Speaker 1:I mean, people are going to that show now, knowing what they're in for. Yeah, so they buy appropriate equipment, yeah and fuels falls in that category.
Speaker 2:That's exciting yeah, no, it was honestly like so cool to see um, and I know from personal experience like that, uh, I know a few people that have worked that we both know who have worked on that show and it's, yeah, they don't want to show brands, you know, it's not about that. It's all about the people and their experience, you know, and what they're doing. It's not about the products. So pretty cool to like to have that little flash of the product on there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it needs to go on your socials. Yeah, we'll work on that. Yeah, well, thanks for having us in the shop. It's uh, it's impressive to see the stuff. I'm excited to see where it goes in the future.
Speaker 2:I'm excited to see how it crosses over into my world yeah, we're um, we're definitely, like I've said to you, off air, like we have not like targeted hunting as a customer, and not because we don't want to, but it's just.
Speaker 1:That was my question to sam, I was like, because you look at companies sometimes that aren't in the hunting space, but new products, and sometimes that's a business choice yeah, to provide products that suit that market, but we don't want to be seen in that market specifically and yeah, it's um, I'm here. So, sam, I like shooting stuff yeah, um.
Speaker 2:No, we'll work on that. Yeah, it's um, I've looked at it's time. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, well, I don't have a um. What are you gonna have a reason, a property to go to? Yeah, I've.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a genuine reason A property, to use it on.
Speaker 2:I've probably got a genuine reason, but I just need to figure out what it is. But yeah, it's just, we've been, you know, we've grown a lot in the last six, seven years and we're sort of at capacity at the moment with what we do. So as time goes by, we'll, you know, expand into these different categories, or at least marketing to those categories and interacting with them a little bit. They're already selling into it.
Speaker 1:Exactly, yeah, it's a byproduct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're well aware of that market and, like, for us, we just try to do what we do best, which is making like high-quality gear that lasts a long time and has like a nice aesthetic to it and, fortunately, like that aesthetic lends itself nicely to to um hunting. So we're aware of that customer. It's just a matter of finding the time to do activities with that customer. Another one is um motorbike camping. Yeah, like, yeah, we little pennies on the thing they got to fit everything in there. It's such a massive customer for us but we just have no no one here does that right. So we need to start looking into that market and those community events and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, some guys on the back of their bike with the hammock set up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they love it. They love it. It's interesting how there's different activities. You don't even realize that like your product is like, it's perfect for that yeah, and you know cookware and things, everything lightweight yeah, that's it, lightweight sturdy, exactly, yeah, yeah, right now. Thanks for having us here on the show. No, thank you for coming up, appreciate it. No, thanks very much, look forward to talking again soon.
Speaker 1:Bye for now.