Accurate Hunts, a life outdoors.
Accurate Hunts is back bigger than ever. Join Dodge Keir, experienced hunter, hunting guide and former host of the top Australian outdoor and hunting podcast, The Endless Pursuit as he goes solo.
Follow along as he sits down with many of the industry leaders in the Australian outdoor and hunting world. He also hosts a few key international guests along the way, discussing all things conservation and education. Having spent years in the industry, Dodge shares genuine and authentic hunting stories based on actual experiences in the bush.
You can catch up with all the Accurate Hunts trips, guided hunts, education courses, merchandise plus more at https://www.accuratehunts.com/
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Accurate Hunts, a life outdoors.
Ep.16 From Flash Floods to Grizzly Bears. The South pacific 15 with Lewis Reid
Can you imagine planning a hunting trip without the internet? Travel back to the 1980s with us as we recount the meticulous preparations for a New Zealand adventure, relying only on handwritten letters and topographic maps. Our special guest, Lewis Reid, shares his awe-inspiring journey of conquering the South Pacific 15, a testament to overcoming life's toughest challenges. The episode takes a heartfelt turn as we visit Arnhem Land, reflecting on the deep connections formed through hunting, and the surprising reunion that brought old friends back together.
Ever wondered what it takes to survive a flash flood or a grizzly bear charge? Join us for some edge-of-your-seat stories, including a harrowing survival tale from Lansborough Valley and a nerve-wracking bear encounter guided by the unflappable bushman, Bill Chapman. Hear about the profound friendships that develop through shared hunts, like the unforgettable bond with Chris McCarthy, forged amidst blown-away tents and torrential rain. Ted Simpson also drops by with his distinctive insights, adding layers of camaraderie and humor to our conversation.
Experience the rugged wilderness like never before as we discuss the irreplaceable role of horses in remote hunting terrains and the intricacies of proper shoeing techniques. We also touch upon the sentimental value of taxidermy trophies, preserving the legacy of hunts for future generations. From the ease of bagging a hog deer stag to the meticulous process of caping your first deer, our tales are filled with memories, milestones, and the uncharted adventures that make hunting a lifelong passion. Tune in for an episode brimming with unforgettable hunts and the profound connections they foster.
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Music. I haven't seen anything like it in all my life and I believe that was probably the single most important factor that made me want to become a trophy hunter. Me and another fellow were camped in under a rock ledge, sort of bivouac and sheltering from bad weather that was coming in and a flash flood or downpour on the open tops above us create a wall of water and come down this dry gully and washed us both away at 10 o'clock at night and I know I lost $5,000 worth of gear and I'll never forget it for the rest of my life. That bear he stood up on his back legs and let out the biggest almighty roar you've ever heard and he was slashing at fresh air with his claws.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to another episode of Accurate Hunts a life outdoors. We are outdoors tonight and it's a pretty dang good outdoors. It certainly is I don't know if you can hear it through the microphones, but we've got birds chirping and crickets going and all sorts of things. At least it's not mozzies. No, it's a good time of year for no mozzies, yeah.
Speaker 1:Here, we are middle of winter and I've got my shorts on.
Speaker 2:I live in long pants, but you live in shorts, and it's been particularly cold this week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it has been a bit cool of a morning but uh, yeah, days aren't too bad. But no, I think we hit 30 30 today yeah, it's supposed to warm up next few days up to 30 or 33, 34 well, I better let you know who I'm talking to.
Speaker 2:This is lewis reed. First met lewis when we work out was about seven or eight years ago yeah, at least least by chance through the. Uh, I just said no mozzies and I got bitten by one. It was at the Expo, maybe it was the first time we met and then we headed up to your house, or was that after Uh went up to?
Speaker 1:the farm up to Lebarque and then up to Barraba, where we live.
Speaker 2:and yeah, yeah, hung out for little bit, but then I haven't seen you for a few years. By chance ran into you up here at. I better also tell you where we are. We're in the middle of Arnhem Land. It's a pretty special place. It's actually my 10-year reunion for being up here. I was up here with someone Lewis had met as well, but Larry Wysoon, which is Mr Whitetailail and Jerry Brasher as well, was up here for the trip and we headed up to a little town called Bullman and that was my first experience in the NT hunting buffalo, other than a holiday previous to that. But it was pretty cool to return. Just you know, we're in that same sort of area now a couple hours past there, but to return 10 years nearly to the week from that, yeah, to come up here for a hunt. This is my fourth trip since then, but let's see a nice little reunion. But I ran into lewis up here and just happened to be helping at camp and working his way up here mid guiding season.
Speaker 2:I'm up here with some clients and big country safaris big country safaris, and I'll tell you what it's not small country no, it's over a million, true million acres yeah, of concession access, endless of, uh, just unexplored country here, really.
Speaker 1:And yeah, we're still breaking out into new country, really.
Speaker 2:And yeah, we're still breaking out into new country.
Speaker 1:How much do I owe you for your book?
Speaker 2:We're mid-recording an episode here.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:No, you might as well get in on it now, come here, come here. Yeah, you're in it now, come here. 70 bucks. It is Well for those that are asking yeah, we'll get to that later. You gotta, I got my microphone on my chest so you might have to talk close, but the camera's there. This is Ted Simpson. Ted and I met nearly ten years ago nine years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nearly ten years ago.
Speaker 2:In the middle of BC on a moose hunt and that's a story for another time. I'll try and catch him while we're in Darwin, but he just politely interrupted us to ask a question.
Speaker 1:It's a good thing about hunting, though, is all the people you meet from around the world. It's what makes hunting worthwhile and just fulfills your life and broadens your mind, and, yeah, there's more to it than just hunting an animal, isn't it? It's the adventure and the experiences. Yeah, the killing is extra.
Speaker 2:It really is. It's just a small fraction of it. Just a small part Righto, you can get out now. Thank you, 70 bucks Aussie or US.
Speaker 1:Oh, whatever you like.
Speaker 2:No, that's all right. Anyway, where were we Ten back up here, ran into lewis. Now, the other reason I wanted to talk to you about lewis was lewis has written a book and I haven't told him this yet, but I read it pretty heavily and you all know I don't read, but I mostly looked at the photos and I set myself a goal to try and finish off my South Pacific 15. Lewis has done the South Pacific 15, wrote a book about it and it's called I Did it my Way and I want to talk to you about what it meant to do it your way and what you mean by that. And then I want to talk to you about some of the animals and trips.
Speaker 1:Well, I just love hunting and I love adventure and I didn't set out to do the 15, it was just something that was work in progress. The further I got, I suddenly thought. And then when I got Murray Thomas's book what is it? South Pacific Trophy Hunter wrote in the late 80s that inspired me to continue on and, yeah, two days short of 23 years, I finally completed it myself, and all self-guided, and yeah, it a long journey. You know, I reared a family at the same time, run property, run a farm, run a, run our beef cattle farm and navigated drought. So my life was sort of ebbs and flows with the hunting and, yeah, that's why I probably took that amount of time. But yeah, I wouldn't swap it for anything, it was just it was and not about getting all the animals either. It was more about challenging myself and the adventure and I just live for adventure and some of the places I've been are awesome. Like you said, the people we meet, yeah, exactly, Continue to reconnect with over the years.
Speaker 2:That's right. Where did the journey into shooting and firearms begin for you? Was that a family thing?
Speaker 1:Yeah well that's an interesting one because, like our family, have been farmers or beef cattle producers all their life, and my father, he didn't really know one end of a gun from another, and I was blessed to have the parents that I had, though I just loved them so much. And then it was probably two cousins of mine that lived in the same area at Woodenbong that had a big influence on me shooting. They were into rifles and walking the ridges shooting kangaroos those days and I joined them and then it progressed onto dingoes. And yeah, obviously I read a few stories in Sporting Shooter about deer hunting and and wanted to hunt a deer. So those days it was very secretive. There wasn't a lot of information on deer hunting and those that knew kept it secret. And so me and two mates, neville Tyler and Mike Welsh, we decided to pack up and go to New Zealand for our first ever deer hunt in 1984, which is 40 years ago. And yeah, so that started it.
Speaker 2:How do you even pick a spot in New Zealand? I want to circle back to New Zealand. We'll leave that. That's a whole topping in itself. But you mentioned there Sporting Shooter magazine and I know we spoke while we were in camp here. You had a good friend and someone you connected with just passed recently. Yeah, Heavily connected to that Nick Harvey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wrote articles for Sporting Shooter over the years and as a kid I actually sent him a question for the question and answer section of the magazine and just always had an affinity with that magazine. I wholly respected the man and I probably would agree that he's the world's greatest gun writer that's ever lived.
Speaker 2:It was Craig Boddington, I think, who wrote that quote. Yeah, that's right, greatest gun writer's ever lived. It was.
Speaker 1:Craig Boddington, I think, wrote that quote Greatest gun rider to ever live. Yeah, and I'd say that's, I'd agree with that as true fact. And yeah, so those that are working for Sporting Shooter now Tony Pizarro, great mates, phil Steele, an old rider that they had and yeah, like Tony, he's done over 60 hunting trips to New Zealand and yeah, I've done slightly over 50, like I don't know if I'll catch him, but yeah, it's all been good.
Speaker 2:You're starting to slow up on your New Zealand trip. Yeah, a little bit We'll talk about New Zealand. I know there's lots of animals in the book we'll talk about, but I know there's some New Zealand animals in there that are very special to you. And how did that first trip come up? Not come about cause you spoke about that, but how do you plan a trip in the eighties when there's no internet? You?
Speaker 1:start writing letters.
Speaker 2:There's no forums.
Speaker 1:No, there was no information whatsoever. Who were you writing to the Forest Service? A ranger in the Forest Service over there.
Speaker 2:How do you even find that Well, yeah good question yeah, how do you find?
Speaker 1:their address. And so he sent back saying oh yeah, there's a good amount of deer in the Commenawa range and seeker deer, and last time he was in there he saw five to six plus per hour. So that sounded pretty good to us. And he drew a mud map on a piece of paper saying fly into the Oamaru airstrip, cross the river to the Oamaru hut, hike one and a half hour, two hours upstream and then start climbing for an hour and a half and then set your camp up and hunt from there.
Speaker 2:And you did that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, did that. All we had was a topo map and a compass. Did you meet him when you got?
Speaker 2:there no, just all by correspondence. Yeah, and how did you go?
Speaker 1:Well, I shot my first ever deer there. It's only a six point seagull stag, but it means as much to me as any of me top heads still on the wall there.
Speaker 1:Um cost me 150 dollars to get it mounted all those years ago and here or there over here, and I was determined that, um, when I shot my first deer I could cape the thing out. So I did a lot of practice on wild goats and stuff and so, yeah, when I shot my first deer I could cape it out, do a head, cape the head out. And I've done that ever since. Every animal I've shot I always cape it out.
Speaker 2:Do it yourself yeah. Did it your way yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm not the fastest caper on earth, but I'm pretty fussy and take my time and try to do a good job.
Speaker 2:That's good, and I think a lot of people coming into the industry now might shoot a deer and then go oh, let's Google how to do that. And you actually did it the other way.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Learned the skill set first.
Speaker 1:Well, my mate Neville Tyler was on that very first hunt. He'd gone to the next step and when he shot his first deer, or first red stag on that trip it was a scungy eight-point head, but that was his first deer. He actually caped his out and he took the whole ear cartilage out both sides of the ear, which you know.
Speaker 2:For those that have never done it yeah, it's tricky, it's unreal. Yeah, you definitely had plenty of time in camp to do that.
Speaker 1:That's right. How was the weather do?
Speaker 2:you remember?
Speaker 1:Oh well, yeah, the North Island, there in the mountains, can be every bit as cold and ratcheted as down the southern south island. So, yeah, we had a woolen bush shirt. We had stubby shorts, cotton shorts, footy socks, a pair of work boots and a beanie. That was our gear. What was your tent? Oh, pretty crappy four-man tent.
Speaker 2:There was no mountain house meals or anything back then, either no, canned food probably.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't remember what we took in, probably a packet of rice and a few bits and pieces. Ate meat while you were there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that was the first of the ventures over there Do you remember the rest of them just as vividly.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, well yeah, that's the memories I've got. Ventures over there. Do you remember the rest of them just as vividly? Oh yeah, well yeah, um, that's the memories I've got. That's just what has made my life so special, like, um, even the unsuccessful hunts you know I'd to get me to get a good white tail buck. Took seven trips to new zealand and, um, I remember every one of them and yeah, so um.
Speaker 2:For those that don't know, there is whitetail in New Zealand. It's a bit of a significant herd of interest to a certain amount of people. It needs to be protected. You were only mentioning today. You want to go back and just tell me about the 100-year thing and the original release.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, yeah, President Theodore Roosevelt donated those virginium whitetail to New Zealand Climatisation Society in 1905. I'm not sure on the exact number, but it was only a small amount like seven, ten or a dozen animals were sent out and a few probably died on the voyage. But they released some on Stewart Island and some in the Glen Orkey area north of Queenstown, and they're well. I've hunted them a lot of times on Stewart Island and they're my most revered species of deer I've ever hunted and I just found it extremely difficult to get a good buck. Did you have some close calls Like close?
Speaker 2:chances. No, you just didn't see anything.
Speaker 1:My first ever trip to Stuart. I'd never even seen a deer and then started to see a few does and whatnot on subsequent trips. But it was five trips before I got a four corn buck and shot him out of a tree and you know, robin could hear me singing out from Australia all across the Tasman Ocean. I was so excited and that buck a three point four corn buck still mounted on the wall at home.
Speaker 1:They're like pretty special moment. And then, yeah, yeah, after seven trips I eventually got a nine-point buck up in the Rees Valley, which is a hundred years to the year that they were released, and pretty special moment in my life. You know, this little turkey had the opportunity after President Roosevelt donated those deer 100 years earlier. And here I was looking down on a nine-point buck. It was a pretty special moment.
Speaker 2:I bet he never thought Well, maybe he did, maybe he knew what he was doing, legacy-wise but I'm going to say he never thought that an Aussie would be over there doing that 100 years later.
Speaker 1:No, it's unreal. And um, and and I I've all my all my later life now I've I've tried to make sure that I can help younger people or others um get into hunting and and um, you know, fulfill their dreams. If I can help someone achieve what they want to well, it makes me feel pretty special.
Speaker 2:You mentioned earlier in the week about you having a mentor. It was a guy in New Zealand, I can't remember his name.
Speaker 1:Yeah, two mentors, and they're in my book. The very first one was Alan Harrison. So Robin and I got married in 1982 and we went to New Zealand on our honeymoon and we went round both islands, did a bunch of kilometres in a hire car and we got to Queenstown and I seen an ad for a animal gallery run by Alan Harrison. He didn't mean much to me at the time, but we went and had a look and what I saw there and the stories that he described to me on his hunts to get those animals that were on his walls I had never heard anything or seen anything like it in all my life and I believe that was probably the single most important factor that made me want to become a trophy hunter. I just had to. I just felt like I wanted to experience some of the stories that he was telling me that day. And yeah, so he was my very first mentor as far as hunting goes.
Speaker 1:And there's one thing he always did tell me, though, in correspondence. He said Lewis, whatever you do in your life, always think of your family first and put them first, and then hopefully, if you do that, they'll help you fulfill your dreams. I have to say it hunting'll help you fulfill your dreams. I have to say, it hunting can be quite a selfish sport, and I've never wanted to wreck my marriage, and so therefore I've tried to compromise, like if I had Robin come home and say I wanna renovate the kitchen for $20,000, I'd say hang on a moment.
Speaker 1:What colour do you want? Yeah, hang on a moment. But she has never once in my life said you can't go on a hunt. And yeah, for that I'm forever thankful and, as far as I'm concerned, everything I've achieved, she's equally achieved. It also, it's been a partnership.
Speaker 2:And Robin's actually here in camp too. She's basically the main cog in the wheel. She runs the kitchen house. Without her we'd all be starving and cranky and carrying on. Yeah, that's right, but no, it's been good to catch up with her too, and share some camp, yeah, and she's been on a fair few of your trips. Yeah, a good handful anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's been to Stewart Island a number of times with me, which have been pretty special trips, and then I've had her up the Rees Valley where I got me big buck and she's seen white-tailed does up there, which, yeah, pretty special.
Speaker 2:Not a hunter herself, though is she? No, not really.
Speaker 1:She shot a wild pig years ago. But yeah, that's about it.
Speaker 2:As far as mentors go, I think it's probably something that's missing. With the access to the internet and Facebook and things like that, you can gather information from all over the world, whereas you are relying on, you know, one or two people to try and lean on some information and help you, and I think that I really actually think we're on a bit of a flipping point at the moment where people are actually helping more. There's some new people that have come into it, and I'm thinking of one in particular who is helping other people, and that's annoying a few people that are, like you said right at the start, that are a bit. The deer hunting industry is a little bit close guarded and secretive. We're at an interesting point in history where there's that many deer in australia specifically that if we don't start shooting more that the government's just going to do something about it. So the sharing of spots and things is becoming a little bit more common.
Speaker 1:I think. But I think and I think for the future of hunting in general itself, with, you know, the pressure of conservationists, or Like, I'm the biggest conservationist here. I love animals, I just like to hunt some of them. But if we, the young people, are the future of hunting and they're the ones that we're going to have to encourage and mentor to keep it, alive On the flip side of you having a mentor.
Speaker 2:I know you've been a mentor for some people as well, and we spoke about one this morning or last night, and I don't know if you want to mention that or not, but just the impact. Yeah, a good mate of mine, murray Horsfield.
Speaker 1:He he was one of the first to buy a book off me. He knew very little about hunting and he contacted me and um, want to hunt tar and chamois and stuff and and and I give him a few tips and away he went and he become a extremely accomplished hunter and dedicated hunter and was striving to get the South Pacific 15 and late January, early February last year hunting white tail, he had a accident and fell to his death unfortunately, and rocked his family and rocked me and I still find it hard to believe. And but yeah, he was out there doing what he wanted to do and and it's a dangerous sport we do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2:I've done plenty of silly things and probably shouldn't be sitting here now, but lucky enough to yeah got through it, I guess, but anyway yeah got through it, I guess, but uh, anyway, well, you know there's definitely a lot of young people in the industry that could do with some mentoring. There's a, you know, still hear about stories about people doing the wrong things and I think that's tricky too, and in the age where it's so easy to google something and work out if you're doing the right or the wrong thing, you know they shoot the wrong animal or they're in the wrong area, or you know they just go about things the wrong way. It's um, yeah, it's a. It's a slippery slope and the whole industry is on its edge with, like you said, the conservationists that aren't hunters, thinking they're doing the right thing and if we do the wrong thing too many times, it won't be long until they try and take it all the way from.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah, like um I my mother. She couldn't kill a fly and um, you know, I'm actually very soft-hearted when it comes to animals. It just happens to be that I want to hunt some of them and that's um in my dna and I can't help it and that's all about it.
Speaker 2:On the topic of the South Pacific 15, circling back to that a little bit, there is 15 animals considered in the list, but there's more that are in the South.
Speaker 1:Pacific.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which could be added, which could be, and I think we got up to nearly 20 the other day when we were rattling off some names I've got. I don't know, I'm probably halfway.
Speaker 1:Well, a scrub bull, for instance, should be on it.
Speaker 2:Scrub bull very underrated Trophy camel.
Speaker 1:Yep, that's right Not on it as far as that goes. Dingo wild dog Yep, Tricky technicalities on those ones? Yeah, I guess so, but they poison them and they hunt them down south, so it's not illegal to hunt them.
Speaker 2:What was one of the easier ones on your list. You said you started shooting goats and things at home.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, when it all ended with the hog deer, I couldn't believe it was all over. Like, obviously, to gain access for the hog deer, that was a big challenge in itself, but the actual getting a stag was a bit underwhelming really what was reminding and I've got got a terrible memory.
Speaker 2:Was it you that were telling me there's a story with your hog deer, that you got some game camera photos or something from someone? Else yeah yeah, that they had because it was a bit unique was it in?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, so doug reed a a? Um well-renowned samba hunter, um. He had a block um that he hunted hog deer on and he had the. He had a block that he hunted hog deer on and he had the trail cam cameras out and apparently he took a photo of this particular stag in velvet and had a wallow there. And then the season come along and, unbeknown to me, I was hunting on the block next door and on opening morning, april the 1st, he heard a shot and it was my shot and he said to himself that'll be the stag and I, and so it was, I don't know about a 14 inch stag I got. And then my mate, mike Welsh, in a magazine saw a photo of the trail cam camera of a stag and it was the exact stag how we know it was. He had damage to his inner top there and when he was in velvet and it was obvious that it was the same stag and and so yeah, and I got him.
Speaker 1:I was carrying a ladder in for a afternoon high seed hunt and it was midday, the fog just lifted and there it was in front of me at 10 or 12 metres, and I sat the ladder down and took the rifle off my shoulder and loaded the cartridge and shot it and I thought to myself well, that's it. Yeah, is it supposed to end like this? Maybe that was the gift for all the other hard ones. Exactly right blood, sweat and tears.
Speaker 2:We're joined here by Patch. I don't know if you can see her in the. Yeah, she's my dog.
Speaker 1:She's a beautiful dog.
Speaker 2:Great camp dog. You can really razz her up, and she'll bite you and nip your heels though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she sure will.
Speaker 2:She's well fed up here, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she goes dingo hunting with me, or wall dog hunting, I guess.
Speaker 2:So if that was one of your easy ones, what's the other end of the scale? Which one took you the longest? Was it the whitetail?
Speaker 1:Yeah, seven trips to New Zealand to get a whitetail buck and they're my most revered species of deer, but obviously the Samba. You know, I never really thought I was good enough to get a Samba stag and I always thought, well, if I did get the chance, that it'd be a Texas Heartshot crashing off through the bush. And and was completely opposite, found a little fawn there bedded up one day and I thought to myself, well, his mother's got to be about here somewhere. And so I snuck about there a bit and looked down onto a bench 30 metres below me and here's this deer laying there in the sun. I thought it was a red stag to start, with the sun just beaming down on it. It just yeah.
Speaker 2:Bright orange color.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it was a big Samba stag and he actually had his chin on the ground, sound asleep and yeah, so what I imagined or envisaged was the dead opposite and ended up getting him and, yeah, the hind jumped up out of the scrub next to him, so they had obviously had a good morning she fell to your demise as well. Yeah and yeah. So Did you shoot her as well, or just the stay?
Speaker 2:No, no, no. So your 15 are they. Are they all males, are they all? Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, does that matter in the 15? Does it have to be?
Speaker 1:made. Yeah, it's all a all a representative head of or trophy of each of the 15 species.
Speaker 1:so, yep um, my most revered animal I've ever hunted in the south Pacific is the Himalayan tar. I just absolutely love the tar and admire them. It just what is it? 1990, I think, was the first ever tar hunt I did. So what's that? 34 years ago and ever since. I don't know how many tar hunts I've done, but guided on them a bit over there too, and yeah, I love looking up at the tar with the binoculars. Pretty special animal.
Speaker 2:What point in the timeline did you meet?
Speaker 1:Chris? Yeah, that's an interesting thing. And who is Chris? Yeah, Chris McCarthy from Lake Hawia Hunting Safari. So he's my best mate. I was one of his best men at his wedding. I'd been to his father's funeral. He's lived with us in Australia and worked with me as a fencing contractor and I've guided for him in New Zealand. I think he's hunted 12 of the 15 animals South Pacific. What's left for him?
Speaker 2:Banting maybe.
Speaker 1:I'd have to think Well, when I say hunted 12 of the 15, it's probably most of them been for me, sure, so I'm not sure how many he needs. But so how we met was back in about the 2000 or something it was. I was on a hunting trip in the Lansborough Valley in the Southern Alps in New Zealand and me and another fella were camped in under a rock ledge, sort of bivouac and sheltering from bad weather that was coming in and a flash flood or downpour on the open tops above us created a wall of water and come down this dry gully and washed us both away at 10 o'clock at night, and I know I lost five thousand dollars worth of gear and including my rifle, and then, oh well, survived that I guess and walked off the mountain. Then my socks, my boots were washed away and so, yeah, it was pretty ordinary night. But um, I was determined, I loved that rifle, a remington mountain rifle in 280, and and um, so I decided to go back next year, drew the block the baker creek block again, and and went back.
Speaker 1:It was going back with two australian mates, but the last minute they had to pull out and and so I contacted Doc in New Zealand, saying that well notified next emergency party, and Chris McCarthy was a member of that and we met all met at the Cook Saddle Hotel in Fox, glacier, and when Chris walked into that hotel he was about 18, I guess, and in a sheerer singlet, and I thought to myself, well, how full of himself's this fella.
Speaker 1:And but we flew in there and the whole valley, well the whole area, got wiped out by big storms during the week. We lost two tents, they were blown away and ripped to pieces, and so the chopper flew in and picked a lot of camps up, flew them out and two of our guys flew out. But the James Scott, the chopper pilot, said if you and Chris and I stay in there, we'll have some good weather. So we stayed there and we hunted together and and, um, even though I don't know, it's 25 years difference in our ages, there's just something about him that struck a chord with me and I wanted to have more to do with him. So I come home to Australia and I sent him a letter once again you know he had to write letters those days and I asked him and his girlfriend Bronwyn to come over and Robin and I and the two of them. We head to the Northern Territory after Buffalo and Bangtang and and that was a start of a lifelong friendship. And, yeah, I admire the man.
Speaker 2:He runs the best outfit in New Zealand as far as I'm concerned and definitely at the peak of well, I'm gonna say a niche market, because a lot of the New Zealand is set up for the estate style stuff. But yeah, as far as free range, true Otago herd.
Speaker 1:Well, he was always a dedicated hunter and and he just felt that even though the estate hunting it's certainly got a market, a big market, but he always felt there was still guys out there that wanted to do it free range, wilderness style, and he went with that idea and it's paid off for him, you see he's got this.
Speaker 2:You know, looking him up, he's got a pretty cool Facebook page with regular updates on stags. He's seeing all year round and tracking their progress. And oh, we saw this guy last year and he's called this. But the main thing I look for every year is the fence photo and this is a photo of. He's got an amazing lodge and there's this fence in front of the lodge and they mount all these Euro mounts of the stags they've harvested for the year and over the years you just see the increase in genetic quality after his proper management. That's right, exactly, he's reaping the rewards. He's actually introduced a tag system to his herd, which isn't done in New Zealand, no, very similar to the American tag system. So when you shoot one or when you turn up, I suppose, you get your tag and when you harvest it, you click the tag and hang it on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it just adds something to the hunt. He's always thought outside the square, chris, and I admire him and I treasure him as a friend, and he wrote the foreword for my book and I admire him and I treasure him as a friend, and he wrote the forward for my book and I'm fortunate enough to have just wrote the forward for his new book.
Speaker 2:so yeah, I haven't read it either like I said, I don't really's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's what's it called Yesterday Stags. Today. It arrived the night before I left to come up to the Northern Territory and so I haven't really had much of a look at myself, but it's a high quality book and well worth anyone checking it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what? What's like after you did the 15 and you did your hoggy and things. Is it like a? Is there a bit of a come down, like you said it was? You weren't sure what to do after that. What's next?
Speaker 1:Like what. Obviously that was a few years ago now, so I just feel I feel a real contented hunter. There's a couple of animals I'd like to. I love the mountain hunting and I'll probably probably go to my grave not getting a sheep from North America. I have hunted stone sheep. My boss over in British Columbia gave me a chance at one $2,500 for the horse, a guide and some food and $8,000 trophy fee if I shot a ram. But I didn't see yeah.
Speaker 2:If you're listening and you think that's expensive, the current cost of a stone sheep is anywhere from $50,000 to $75,000 US. Yeah, so that's a bug. Yeah, current cost of a stone sheep is anywhere from 50 to 75,000 US.
Speaker 1:So that's a bug. Yeah, in the last couple of years they've taken the biggest ram in stone sheep in North America on his concession and he's been offered quarter of a million dollars if he can come up with another ram the same size. So, yeah, a bit out of my league. How did you end up in BC? So, a mate of mine, glen Swanson. He worked for an outfitter in BC, kylo Brothers, in either the late 80s or early 90s and he come home with a black bear, a mountain goat, a mountain caribou, a moose and a ram for his work, which to me was mind-blowing. That was his paycheck. Yeah, exactly, and me being me, I did it my way.
Speaker 1:I was never prepared to go on a paid hunt, so I thought, well, if you're going to do it, you might as well go over and work. I always wanted a mountain goat since I was a young fella and I organised with the outfitter that I'd do the season for a goat. He had a good deal, but I thought I was doing okay. But when I got there and I saw the first moose and I thought, holy hell, I've got to try and hunt some more of these animals. I asked the guy that I was, bill Chapman, the best bushman ever I've been in the hills with. He was the guide, I was the wrangler. I said how am I going to try and hunt these things, bill, and these other animals? He said, just ask the outfitter. And um yeah, he agreed and I got some tags and I end up coming home with, um yeah, nice, 53 inch bull moose, me mountain goat that always wanted seven foot six black bear and a grizzly bear. So yeah, I had a good good time, that was the first year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you went back a few times. Yeah, yeah, well, they went back guiding.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you took robin over as well yeah, yeah and but I I worked for pay on on those those times, and of those I mean you've told me.
Speaker 2:I'm just trying to think whether it was the black or the brown, but but there was a story about it. You were above it or something.
Speaker 1:Oh well, yeah, to be charged by a grizzly bear is a pretty awesome experience. So before the hunting season starts, there's a lot of trail cutting and setting up the camps way back in the mountains. So you're back there on your horses and pack horses, and we were on a beautiful, really nice meadow one day at a moose lick, and we were about ready to pour some salt into the lick to stock it up for the year, and I looked over my right shoulder on the bush edge, about 80 yards away, and the biggest grizzly ever I've seen in my life was standing there and I pointed out to Bill and he said, oh, we'll keep an eye on this thing, and and like most grizzlies, he looked at us for a bit and then he turned and he went back into the bush and disappeared, which you'd expect him to do, and we just continued putting the salt in the bush and disappeared, which you'd expect him to do, and we just continued putting the salt in the lick. And then, a few minutes later, I looked back and the bear was standing there again. As much to say, well, what have I got to leave here for? Anyway, I don't know why, I can't remember, but I went about 10 metres away and I must have got a better view.
Speaker 1:When I was filming and taking some photos of the grizzly and all of a sudden the bear started to walk towards us from 80 to 70 yards and Bill said oh jeez, lewis, you better come back over here. And I went straight back and when I looked up now, the grizzly's coming at full tilt straight at us and it was only seconds. And Bill said quick, hold these horses. And I grabbed the reins under their chin and turned their heads away so they couldn't see what was about to happen.
Speaker 1:And Bill got down on his knees on his haunches and at 30 yards, fired 45-70 and the grizzly skidded to a halt Into the bear or was he shooting to scare it? Yeah, well, like I didn't know. And he fired, the grizzly skidded to a halt and stood there and just shook its head at us and then turned around and walked away. I was completely dumbfounded. I said what didn't you shoot it to a halt and stood there and just shook its head at us and then turned around and walked away. I was completely dumbfounded. I said what didn't you shoot it? And he said no, I didn't want it, but the next bastard was gonna be for real.
Speaker 2:So just he shot the ground or shot around it.
Speaker 1:No, he shot straight between its ears, right, just to scare it. The coolest bloke I've ever been with and yeah, yeah, for someone to hold his cool in that situation. I wasn't scared, didn't have time to be scared, but yeah, it could have turned. Went pear-shaped real easy.
Speaker 2:How did your bear hunt turn out then? Not as eventful as that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so. So this Bill Chapman, he's got eyes like an eagle and we were on a lookout with the pickup and it was clear cuts where they fell a lot of pine through the valleys, and at about five kilometres he spotted it was so cold I'd given up. I couldn't find anything. And after glassing and glassing and I went round to the front of the pickup and said to Bill, have you seen anything? And he said yeah, there's something over there, but it could be a bird. And he just kept looking at it, because when, the, when the bears feed in the in the clear cuts through the pine slash, after the berries there, they disappear and then they reappear anyway. He kept looking and and, um, event, yeah, there it is, it's a bear. And I said, is it a grizzly? And he said yes, it is. And so we jumped in the pickup and it took us one and a half hours to drive out of that watershed into the watershed that the bear was in. Then we parked the vehicle and walked a logging track and he knew exactly where to walk to and I just followed him, stuck to his shoulder like to a blanket, and he stopped on the logging track and then he looked up a bank and then he started walk, climbing up the bank and I followed him and when he got to the top of the bank, he's there, right there, there. And because I couldn't see, for looking, and there, right there, and eventually I spotted it. It was 40 yards away and it was, yeah, beautiful grizzly just feeding amongst the pine slash, and and he all, I'm a real 280 man. And so that's what I had. You wouldn't be guided on a grizzly hunt with a 280, but that's what I had. You wouldn't be guided on a grizzly hunt with a 280, but that's what I had. And Bill said you'll be right, lewis, just make sure you hit him behind the shoulder when he opens himself up.
Speaker 1:Anyway, the bear was feeding around and then it started to walk towards us, come a bit closer, feeding towards us. And I had that crosshair right on him and I can remember I had it on his spine and I had that crosshair right on him and I can remember I had it on his spine and I could feel myself squeezing the trigger. It was a perfect shot to his spine and right at the last second I said no. Bill said hit him behind the shoulder. So I released that pressure and I remember I let out a sigh of relief it was so tense and the bear then turned and went back again.
Speaker 1:And then he come to the side and as he stepped into an opening and opened his front leg up, I let drive and never forget it for the rest of my life that bear. He stood up on his back legs and let out the biggest almighty roar you've ever heard and he was slashing at fresh air with his claws and looking for what had hit it. And then it went back down onto its all fours and I reloaded and hit it there again and he reared straight back up onto his back legs again. This time he did a back flip and then all I remember is this ball of fur sort of slowly rolling down a slight incline and I put two more shots into it.
Speaker 1:It was an empty magazine. Then I turned around to Bill and said give him one, bill, and he said to me I don't think there's any need, lewis. So it was an awesome experience. I'll never forget it. When we eventually got down to the bear, after making sure he was dead, I reached into me day pack to get me camera out and I pulled me sat phone out and rang Robin back in Barabba there four o'clock in the morning and said well, I got me grizzly. And she said well, you can come home now Job done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, job done yeah so yeah, um, that was back in 2005, 2007 sort of thing. I was working over there but couldn't do it. Now I'm getting a bit long in the tooth, so but I'm pleased I did it. Anyone that wants to do it, go and do it, because it's an awesome experience there's there's some pretty good programs.
Speaker 2:Actually I don't know if it's running post-covid, but there was a New Zealand program where you would learn how to guide, learn how to pack a horse and you know basic outdoor skills and things, and then you would be guaranteed you had to pay to do the course but part of that would you'd be guaranteed to do a season in New Zealand with sorry, in Canada with an outfitter, and they've also got American options. They had Scottish options and they've also got American options. They had Scottish options. It's, you know, to learn how to be a wrangler initially and then work your way into being a guide. Yeah, has been more accessible recently. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So we didn't have any of that, I just I can't like. So my mate that worked for Kylo Brothers, which was Ken Kylo, the father, he passed away with cancer and I worked for his son, scott, and I just rang up and said, can I work for you? And because I'd worked with horses all my life, mustering cattle and stuff, well, knew a bit about them. But yeah, you know it was a learning curve. I just learned it as I went.
Speaker 2:Were they horse people? Or just had the horses as part of.
Speaker 1:No, they were horse people.
Speaker 2:How did they shoe?
Speaker 1:them.
Speaker 2:How did they shoe them?
Speaker 1:They didn't shoe them, they went barefoot. But the outfitter that owns the like Geordie McCauley that owns the outfit, now Finlay River Outfitters, he's called called it because he purchased it off scott kylo. You ought to see how he shoes the horses. He puts them in.
Speaker 2:I know exactly how you're going to say it. This is an only canadian thing. It's unreal. I don't even know what you're going to say, but I know what you're going to say because I've seen it and I was like I filmed it when I was there and then they said, oh no, you can't share that footage. I'm like like, yeah, and I should have kept it. I deleted it.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I didn't even bother filming it, so it's a bit hard to explain, but they put them into a timber. A timber shoot or crush, I guess, and and yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:So it's a cattle crush for horses. They run them in through the chute, it clamps them on the sides and then you tie their face to the side, like with their head collar, and then it flips them on their side so they're laying down on their side and they're thrashing as you would when you're a horse laying on your side on a table confined and you've got to lay under the table and throw a rope around each foot and tie the foot down to the table with a quick half hitch while these other feet are brushing your ears. And then they had a four inch or five inch grinder cleaning the feet up oh yeah, it's completely different to what we do in australia.
Speaker 2:I'm a horse person too. I grew up riding and and I was just like what I've never seen what?
Speaker 2:What was worse was again, the guys I work with amazing hunters great access, not horse people and they were using, again, if you don't know, nails that you put in the shoe that go up through the horse's foot. I tape it on the top, but they're flat on one side and tape it on one side and what happens is when you nail them in the correct way, they actually go in the foot and then use the taper to push out of the foot and then you curl them over and that's what holds the shoe in. It's like where are the nails? Why aren't they coming out? I said you're nailing them in backwards, they were just grabbing them and putting them in oh dear some went in, some went out.
Speaker 2:Oh, poor horses, like abscesses yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:no, the horses we used back in those days with Scott Kylo when I worked for him weren't shod A properly it's called barefoot, barefoot shoeing or barefoot trimming.
Speaker 2:a properly manicured horse foot can survive well, but once you start shoeing, you've got to continue because they end up with weak soles and things yeah, oh yeah, you've got to continue.
Speaker 1:You've got to continue because they end up with weak souls and things. But yeah, amazing horses, like once you get there and see where those horses go, like you can't hunt those that country without horses.
Speaker 2:Really, you know no, it's inaccessible to a lot and I think that's part of the allure. And ted, who you saw bumping on our conversation earlier. I met him in canada and we've got some really good horse stories and I'll get into them with him. But there was one you know particular hunt we were on. It was a two day ride in before you even got to the hunting ground.
Speaker 2:And it was inaccessible by quad motorbike. You could uh there was a runway out there. You could run a you know bush plane, but the cost on that was not worth it, and that the actual runway hadn't been manicured for some years so 15 years I think it was so it had ruts in it and it was terrible. But the use of horses over there is necessary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the most amazing things ever I seen there was we were at a staging camp, called Shit Creek Camp actually, and so it was the Geordie, the boss. He'd bring the hunters up the river, in up the Akai River, in the jet boat, drop them off at the Shit Creek Camp and then we'd saddle up and ride off into the mountains. Well, bill was out with a hunter after a grizzly this particular day and I was in camp with the other, his mate, who didn't go out, and we saw a plane fly over and oh yeah, that's the boss, geordie, flying over in his super cub. Didn't pay a lot of attention and next breath I looked over and here this plane comes down round the corner in the river and he sat it down on the river rocks between the bank and the water. I'd never seen anything like it in all my life.
Speaker 1:Those bush pilots are special and we went over and we talked and for him to take off again, we had to throw the big rocks into the river and we pushed the plane back into the water as far as we could to get him maximum runway. And the guy that was with him, oran, he, he was in the back and Geordie said to him don't strap yourself in. What you got to do is get in the seat there and then reach over the top of me and hold the struts in front there at the windscreen and pull yourself forward. We got to get that back wheel up off the ground as quick as possible. Yeah, it was an amazing thing that you don't see that too often.
Speaker 2:No, no, I've seen some videos of those guys that with the right conditions they can actually just take off on the spot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the tundra tyres and things that's right, the big tundra tyres.
Speaker 2:It's a special part of the world. I really miss it, and spending time with Ted and Rhonda this week has really made me reminisce heavily on some of those stories.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what hunting's all about too reminiscing the memories, and people don't understand taxidermy, sometimes either.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's what hunting's all about too, reminiscing the memories and people don't understand taxidermy sometimes either, but the ability to have it sit down in front of a head. And you said right from the start, with your mentor you went to his shed or whatever it was and saw his mounts and then he told the stories. I've been to your house. I've seen, I want to say, the best trophy room in Australia that I've seen. He's moved house now so it's a little bit more a different organisation. But the room I walked into I'd never seen anything like it in Australia. So congratulations. It was amazing to see the way it was mounted and organised. But then you were just like I'll tell you a story about that. And then it was a story about that, yeah, and then they're 3D photos.
Speaker 1:That's all they represent is the memories and the stories. Yeah, the 3D photos, that's all it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah exactly, people don't see that as that, but to me my trophy room grows. Every year something gets added and whatnot. And yeah, they're an interesting thing, because once we pass, they don't really mean anything to anyone else. I mean, you've written a book, so it carries on through that, but to other people it's just a grizzly bear exactly, or you know, it's just a goat, so it's. I don't know what happens with mounts no, and their, their value going forward.
Speaker 1:Obviously they have some sort of financial value, but it's not worth that I've always thought we'll have to hire an excavator and dig a big hole.
Speaker 2:Put them all in there with you. Just throw the match in. Yeah, talking about mounting animals and taxidermy, you've had a busy four days.
Speaker 1:Oh man.
Speaker 2:We're up here at Buff Camp and the thing with Buff is Big country safaris You've mentioned it, that's all right.
Speaker 1:He got his plug.
Speaker 2:He got his plug, but when you shoot a buff they're big, and then everyone wants it mounted. Some people get a Euro mount, which is, you know, that's fine too, but there's a lot of work goes in behind the scenes on an animal, and for four days these guys have been boiling well, knocking horns off, boiling heads, gurneying heads, drying heads, yeah, and you're up to 64 or something 69.
Speaker 1:69. 69 in four days.
Speaker 2:That's a record.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know whether it is or not, but my feet tell me it is yeah.
Speaker 2:Today's the last day of the hunt, so tomorrow you've got a couple of rest days for changeover of clients, so I think you've well earned it. Yeah, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:And I'm only here. Robin and I are only here because we love adventure and love the wilderness and we want to help Alex out.
Speaker 2:Well, you and Alex met on a New Zealand hunt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. A tar hunt in the Landsborough Valley. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And connected from there. Alex has got an amazing outfit up here. Yeah, you know, comparing your trophy room to ones I've seen in Australia, I think this camp is the pinnacle of what Australian outfitting is, and he's definitely achieved great things up here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like Chris McCarthy, he thinks outside the square and he's going places. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's good to see the younger but younger guys my age and a little bit older pioneering that and pushing that into the future. A lot of the outfitters, like you're saying, are dying and they're older and they're passing it on, but to see this younger blood. Alex has come from New South Wales, wales. He said he moved to Catherine because he had a mate that worked up here as a ranger. Yeah, so many, so many years ago now he's, you know, full-blooded Catherine Knight. That's right. You know. He's got this outfit up here. It's massive, it's huge. His wife lives up here, kids and, yeah, move the whole family up here just to chase this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's absolutely dedicated to it. He's committed to the industry. I'm proud to be associated with it.
Speaker 2:I know he tells you in front of your face but he tells me a lot behind the scenes how much he appreciates your efforts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know that.
Speaker 2:And the camp doesn't run the same without the cogs behind the scenes of you guys. Yeah, that's right, I know. Yeah, it's right, oh no. Yeah, it's appreciated. Well, thanks for joining us. If anyone wants a copy of the book, where do they go to get it? I know you've got a really good phone website now because you've got to set that up for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just the other day. But yeah, lewisreedcomau, and. I've got a website there and you can purchase it online.
Speaker 2:Definitely a worthwhile read, and thanks for being with us this evening, no worries.
Speaker 1:Look forward to our last night together. I'm sure we'll share some drinks in the future. Good catching up with you, dodge, bye-bye. Well done, thank you.