Accurate Hunts, a life outdoors.
Accurate Hunts is back bigger than ever. Join Dodge Keir, experienced hunter, hunting guide and former host of the top Australian outdoor and hunting podcast, The Endless Pursuit as he goes solo.
Follow along as he sits down with many of the industry leaders in the Australian outdoor and hunting world. He also hosts a few key international guests along the way, discussing all things conservation and education. Having spent years in the industry, Dodge shares genuine and authentic hunting stories based on actual experiences in the bush.
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Accurate Hunts, a life outdoors.
The Art of Magpie Goose Hunting: Tips, Tricks, and Cultural Insights
Discover the extraordinary world of Magpie Geese hunting in Darwin with our special guest, David Roberts from Darwin Goose Hunters. Ever wondered why the Northern Territory's hunting culture stands out? From the migratory magic of Magpie Geese to their nesting habits near the Adelaide and Daly Rivers, David shares invaluable insights into these remarkable birds and their impact on local agriculture. Hear firsthand about the community's unwavering dedication to hunting and how it contrasts with the challenges faced by their southern counterparts.
Explore the deep-rooted cultural significance of Magpie Goose hunting, particularly through the lens of traditional Aboriginal practices among the Larrakia people. This episode sheds light on the communal and multicultural participation in this beloved tradition, highlighting its importance across diverse demographics. We also navigate the complexities of hunting regulations, including the bag limit controversies, and discuss how rangers manage crocodile populations to ensure safe hunting grounds.
For those intrigued by hunting tourism, we delve into the rising interest among American hunters eager to experience Australia's unique bird species and the hurdles they face. David also shares his top hunting tips, firearm preferences, and thoughts on the contentious trophy import bans. Whether you're a seasoned hunter or just curious about the lifestyle, this episode offers a wealth of stories, expert advice, and practical knowledge that you won't want to miss. Tune in for an engaging and comprehensive look at the vibrant hunting culture of the Northern Territory!
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What are they coming for Food?
Speaker 2:I really don't know why they come. The flood plains where the hunting reserve is on, they are time of year as well, but they'll come and feed on water chestnuts. I think an early one is still the screamers. I'm not too sure of the. I think Americans are more familiar with the type of bird, the screamers. I don't think we have many of that species or that family in Australia. So, yeah, I reckon the average that's my average is around 150 birds. So that, yeah, I reckon the average that's my average is around 150 birds. So that would be a lot. Most people are just shooting on weekends. I probably shoot maybe three, four times a week.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to another episode. Accurate Hunts A Life Outdoors, and tonight, or today, I should say, we have David Roberts with us. Thanks for joining us, Dave.
Speaker 2:It's a pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:No, worries, and Dave comes from a little old town up north called Darwin and he's living just outside of Darwin, but he runs a group called Darwin Goose Hunters. Is that correct? Yes, that's right, called Darwin Goose Hunters Is that correct? Yes, that's right, Darwin Goose Hunters yeah, and it's something I I mean for us guys down south. Our bird hunting sort of season is under threat, and especially those in Melbourne and what's happening down there, and you guys just seem to be having a ball up there and it's about to kick off again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. We've been really lucky in the Northern Territory. And look, darwin is a special place when it comes to hunting. As you know, you spend a bit of time up in the Northern Territory. Everybody hunts, everybody hunts up here. Everybody loves hunting. We don't have those, I guess, the pressures from the anti-groups, like you guys do down south. So, yeah, we're about to kick off our Mad Pogoose season.
Speaker 1:And that's, is it 26,? I think you said.
Speaker 2:Probably 26. So they always started on a Wednesday midweek. I think that leaves a bit of pressure because everybody wants to start the season off, so they started it on the weekend with too many people, so they always started off on.
Speaker 1:Wednesday Interesting choice because I mean they do the same thing in Victoria and that's something that comes up regularly. You know why is it the Wednesday start, and I personally thought it was a little bit more to do with the anti-hunters down there, but I didn't realise you guys chose a Wednesday as well. But I'm pretty sure there's a lot of people having that day off work, is there?
Speaker 2:That's it. It's probably so Parks and Wildlife don't have to pay overtime on the weekends as well. I can imagine.
Speaker 1:That'd be yeah.
Speaker 2:And a lot of people have the day off. I've got five weeks off for the goose season. Start of the goose season. I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:That's some dedication. We'll get into the goose hunting and things in a lot of detail, but I want to know about the geese themselves. So they're called a magpie geese, but are they like? What are they doing year round and why are they so many of them in Darwin right now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's really interesting. They're not in Darwin all the time. They don't sit in Darwin all year round, so they move around, go out to the nesting sites. And there's nesting sites over to the east of Darwin near the Adelaide River, going over to Kakadu and places like that. That's a large nesting site over there and there's also a nesting site over to the west over near the Daly River, over near the Daly.
Speaker 2:River yeah, around the Finnish area there's a big nest inside over there. You don't see any magpie geese in Darwin for the whole dry season and it's a real change of the seasons and you can mark when the dry season, the wet season, is coming and you see the cycle of Darwin and one of those cycles, going from the dry season to the build-up, are the magpie geese arriving in Darwin. There's none whatsoever. Next week there'll be hundreds, hundreds everywhere, in the parks, in the local footy fields, in the local orchards. They just seem to just come in one big dump.
Speaker 1:And what are they coming for food?
Speaker 2:No, I really don't know why. They come the floodplains where the hunting reserve's on. They are good floodplains as well, and depending on the time of year as well, but they'll come and feed on water chestnuts and they have a big problem of magpie geese going into the mango orchards as well. There's a big cull program as well to get rid of them out of the mango orchards. It did quite a bit of damage so I'm not a great fan of it. I haven't really participated in any of the cull hunts up there in the mangoes farms. I prefer to chase the birds and understand the bird and move around. You know how many. It would be good fun. Don't get me wrong. You would probably get a lot of birds for the freezer, but I prefer chasing them around Darwin area, around around their local hunting reserves. We're really lucky. We have hunting reserves quite close to Darwin City itself.
Speaker 1:Are they a native or are they migratory coming?
Speaker 2:No, they do. They can migrate from Papua New Guinea, but it's not a massive influx from Papua New Guinea. But it's not a massive influx from Papua New Guinea. They do meet up in Papua New Guinea as well, but the main flock would be from Australia. They've got a broad range and you'll notice that sometimes you get reports of them down in New South Wales, on the east coast, down the east coast of Queensland, but also there was originally a flock down in Victoria when white settlement first came, and then they were just easy to catch so they got wiped out. But now they've re-established them down there in Victoria as well.
Speaker 2:So I can imagine that they just follow from the northern parts of Australia down the Great River systems like the Darling River system. You know they move around and so many of them. There's estimated to be around about 2.5 million in the population up here and that fluctuates depending on weather conditions, water conditions, all those types of things. So it fluctuates and that's what sets our bag limits as well and they do a survey each year and then they'll set a bag limit from there.
Speaker 1:And what has that bag limit been in previous years and what is it this year?
Speaker 2:This year seven, seven, and we're allowed 10 ducks, depending on what species you get, but seven. We used to have a bag limit of 10, which is really good like 10 is a good number. But then we had some really bad wet seasons and there wasn't much water around. They did the survey and I don't know the survey's a little bit questionable about how they did it, but anyway, that's a bit political. But then we went down to a three bird bag limit and that's if you get out of bed at four o'clock in the morning for three bird bag limit, it's a struggle. And then you end up shooting the bag limit at five minutes a three birds and you're off home. Uh, there I mean, there are some benefits because you know if somebody was already in your spot when you got there, you knew he's going to be finished in five minutes. You could just get straight into his spot.
Speaker 1:So there was one benefit out of that there.
Speaker 2:There was a big protest in Darwin when they pushed the limit down to three, because goose hunting is a massive cultural thing up here in the Northern Territory. You don't be messing with our birds.
Speaker 1:Besides, you know your culture and things. Obviously, there's traditional Aboriginal culture related to geese hunting. What's the history there?
Speaker 2:Obviously, we've been doing it forever oh, they've been doing it forever. Well, magpie geese, it's an unusual bird. It's the last one remaining of its species.
Speaker 2:It goes back millions of years, the species itself and on the evolutionary chain or tree. It was the first branch off. Everything went underneath it. There were ducks, swans, other geese, but magpie geese was the first branch. The magpie geese that we have up here is one of the only remaining type of its species here in the Northern Territory or in in the world in the Northern Territory. So a really unique bird. We call it a goose, but is it really a goose? I think it probably got that goose sort of label from its honking noise. It's very similar to what Americans and other people expect from geese, but it doesn't have webbed feet. It actually has like a clawed foot and it can roost. Sorry, it doesn't nest in trees, it can roost in trees at night, which is neither geese does that. So it's really unusual.
Speaker 1:If it wasn't a goose, what would you call it?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I think an early one is pivot screamers. If it wasn't a goose, what would you call it? I don't know. I think an early one is called a screamer. I'm not too sure of the. I think Americans are more familiar with the type of bird the screamer.
Speaker 2:I don't think we have many of that species or that family in Australia, but it's totally in its own branch. It's totally different. There's no other bird like it. There's no two types. There's no regional variations from country to country. That's it. That's what it is. So it's a very unusual bird and Aboriginal. I mean the local Larrakia people here in Darwin love the magpie geese and love the magpie geese. They're allowed to shoot them all year round. But, like I was saying, they only come into Darwin this time of year, so they will only come into the hunting reserve or these parts of Darwin now. So yeah, they don't shoot them all year round, so they'll really only shoot them the local guys when they come into the Darwin area. Guys out in Cafferty will probably be shooting them all year round, but when you've got a population of about 2.5 million it's all right. I think they can deal with a little bit of pressure.
Speaker 1:Circling back to your bag limit conversation. That's a per person per day. Yeah, yeah. So do we know rough estimates on how many are harvested?
Speaker 2:per year. There's around about 2,500 registered waterfowl hunters in the Northern Territory or in the Darwin area. You are supposed to fill out a harvest return at the end of the year For me. I go hunting a lot and I would probably shoot maybe 150 birds a year, so I can imagine I'm not a great shot.
Speaker 1:I'm never proclaimed to be a great shot. Do you think that's sort of the average for guys that you know hunt the whole season, or do you think that's above average?
Speaker 2:I would say it's above average. I think I'd probably go hunting a little bit more than the average guy. I'm definitely an average shooter. I'm no great shooter um. I'm definitely an average shooter. I'm no great shooter um. So I reckon yeah, I reckon the average.
Speaker 1:That's my average is around 150 birds.
Speaker 2:So that would be a lot I I would. I most people are just shooting on weekends. I probably shoot maybe three, uh four times a week. I'm lucky and I can do it before work. Um, and that's what's good about that, when you can get down and do a hunt and make it into work and do a full day's work as well.
Speaker 1:I just did a quick Google check while we were talking, but it said you were talking about it before. The magpie goose is the sole living representative species of the family and I'm going to butcher this. I'm horrible.
Speaker 2:That's the reason I didn't say it. I read up on it as well, but I didn't want to try to know.
Speaker 1:Answer and today. Answer and today A-N-S-E-R-A-N-A-T-I-D-A-E. Now don't ask me to spell it ever again and I'll just do a quick Google at some point about how many do we think are harvested each year. But it's refreshing to hear that you guys are really getting into it and as a city it has this real culture around it.
Speaker 2:It really is and you know we talk about places in Europe and other places which have a food culture and it really is. It's a food culture up here and it's a wild harvest food culture. And when goose season is coming it's the first. You have the dry season where fishing is okay. You can still get a little bit of fishing, but goose season is the first step from dry season going into the buildup and people start to talk about goose hunting.
Speaker 2:Um, you, everybody goose hunts up here. It's amazing the diversity of people. On my page you can get from every nationality. Darwin is a very multicultural um place. You know we have a very big Greek population up here. They love hunting. Obviously we have an Aboriginal population, one of the biggest in Australia up here. We have English or Anglo-Saxon. We love their hunting up here. You have a very big Chinese-Asian population up here. They're all into it and and you get whole diverse range of ages as well and you might more typically think well, you know hunting people, men between 18 to 45 or something, but I did see I get young girls on my page. I get families on my page.
Speaker 2:It's a real people stop you in the street. They know you're a goose hunter and one of your friends. I'll stop you in the street. They know you're a goose hunter and one of your friends. They'll stop you in the street and ask you do you have any goose? Or what are you doing in the goose season? You're a goose hunter. They're like well, what's happening? Are you going to get some goose? Have you got any spare stuff? Because you can't buy it. There's one company that sells it, the Motlot family, the ASL football players, but anyway they've got a license. The Aboriginal family up here and they've got a license to sell it. It's a bit expensive. It's like $50 a bird and normally they run it through like a wild harvest place in South Australia. $50 a bird is a lot. But other than that, you have to go get it yourself. You can't barter, you can't it yourself.
Speaker 1:You can't barter, you can't buy it, you can't sell it. There's not many foods like that left in the world.
Speaker 2:No, and look, it's a real, like I said. I think, like I said, we talk about Europe and their food culture. I think it's probably one of the only real food cultures left in Australia where you know, a time of year comes, a harvest comes, birds come in, people get their freezers full and eat it for the rest of the year. You know, I love it, I love it. That's one of the main things I love about the magpie geese harvest.
Speaker 1:I definitely love my food as well and I'll get into that here in a little bit. I just was Googling while we were talking and it's saying that up to 18% of total population is taken annually by hunters, with an estimate of 130 to 360, it's very vague birds per year, with many of those being taken by Aboriginal people. It's considered sustainable. The estimated take by hunters during the hunting season is around 60,000. Well, that's a bit low. Yeah, that's 2009. That might have been when you're at low. You know, three per person.
Speaker 1:And then it's saying another estimate here is 50 to 150 per year. So and contributing approximately 1.2 million to 2 million to the Northern Territory's economy each season.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think you could do more. And really that's one of the things I try and push on the page is people coming up to shoot up here in the Territory and I've had a lot of messages and people asking from down south come over to the Northern Territory if they want to shoot, because I think they get that pressure from the lobby groups and the activists down there in the south and they want to come up to a place where they're unharassed and and they can enjoy their hunting and um. So northern territory offers that and I think that you know it's a very big um fishing culture up here. But I think that hunting could take not overtake it, but complement be on par.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll be the season, the different season. You know barramundi season, you had the waterfowl season and that, you know, just links up and it'll be great for tourism and, as you know, hunters spend money not to spend money.
Speaker 1:That's true. There's a, there's a meme that goes around. It's um. It said the average person spends x amount on their hobby per year. And there's a picture of a hunter in the corner like are you kidding? Like don't tell my wife. It's not a cheap sport, that's for sure. You said earlier about registered hunters. What's required to become? Is there a you know? Bird identification like our wit test we have down here or not?
Speaker 2:No, we don't have any of that, you just need to apply online. They do have, I mean, enough literature for bird identification, but there's no test like you guys have down south, and you can apply online as well and you can get a permit for, I think, five years, six years or something. It used to be back in the day you used to have to get your permit every year, right?
Speaker 1:Does it cost much?
Speaker 2:No, no, I think it's like about maybe $25 a year or something it's not expensive?
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, and you said you could shoot ducks as well. What sort of ducks are you harvesting?
Speaker 2:and my ducks up here. I'm not much of a duck hunter um a lot of my friends I'm a zero duck hunter.
Speaker 2:So yeah, okay. Well, let's see. We always meet and then and sometimes I think I'm a goose because they're slower, but but they're surprisingly fast. But a lot of my friends get into duck hunting and if there's ducks around I'll have a go. And our main species that we get up here would be the wish-wing duck, and there's two types of wish-wing ducks the plumed and the wandering. Most of the ones that I would see would be the wandering whistling duck. They're really small, small fast birds. You can't call them in because they've got a whistle, so you can't really call them in. We do get black ducks up here. That would probably be the next main bird that you would see. We also get hardheads as well, but I've shot a few of those, but I don't see a lot of them. There is pink ear up here as well, but I don't see very many of those. Apparently there's a bigger population down near Catherine Way, which is maybe 200, 300.
Speaker 1:Do you just see? The duck hunting is interfering with your goose hunting, like scaring the geese A little bit.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. They normally run really fast, really early and they'll have a go, because they come over in hundreds. Sometimes, if you're in the right spot, they'll come over in waves and waves and waves and you're like, oh, I'll have a go. But one of the main reasons I don't really like getting them sometimes is we've got a lot of long grass up here and so if you drop them in the long grass, sometimes they can be hard to find and I don't sort of like chasing them in there. And if you drop them in the water and we've got a bit of a crocodile problem up here as well so yeah, I'm not a great fan, but I'll have a go. I'll have a go, but we'll see this year.
Speaker 1:Are the crocs tuned in to the hunters? Do they know that hunting creates dead things for them to eat, whether it be carcasses and frames?
Speaker 2:It's a big topic up here and I think a lot of people and a lot of people from down south and around Australia talk about that's the first thing on their mind when they think about the Northern Territory. There's crops up here and one of our main hunting is a parakeet dam. The dam opened, the floodplain which is around about maybe 800 metres long, and then the dam open, the floodplain which is around about maybe 800 meters long, and then the river behind the flood uh floodplain is adelaide river and that's where they do the jumping crocodile and so that river, exactly right there where the hunting reserve is, is four meter, sometimes five meter crocodiles in that river system and we have harrison dam and runs off down to a place called beatrice lagoon. That beatrice lagoon it sort of runs into um into the adelaide river. So you've got to be wary of some places like that, the beatrice lagoon. I like shooting there there because there's less people down there.
Speaker 2:But there is a croc trap in Harrison Dam. I've tried to get the numbers of how many crocs actually pulled out of there and I'd love to get it on my page how many crocs have been pulled out of there or when was the last one out of that trap. I've seen one croc in there before but, that was way pre-season.
Speaker 2:So the rangers actively try and get rid of crops because that floodplain will come up high and be easy enough for a crocodile to drop in there. But you've got other places like Shoal Bay, which is back straight onto an open estuary, straight into the saltwater, near Darwin. So that has massive potential of crocodiles in there as well. And you've got Lambert's Lagoon. There's always crocodiles everywhere in the Northern Territory, in any waterway, but probably less chance of one being up there in the land of the same area. The point you're asking about, do they associate it with animals and dead things. Okay, the way I look at it, I'm no croc-hoster. Don't take my. What I say is any advice on what you should do with crocodiles. So don't take my. What I say is any advice on what you should do with crocodiles. But what I've observed and the way I look at it, is that okay, start of the year before there's any shooters, the crocodiles are pretty skittish as well. They get a few gunshots going, they're going oh, this is not cool, I'm not going to hang around with all these gunshots going on, so they'll move out of the area pretty fast, I think. And then once, once that happens, um, then I think they will move in this personal area and it's a constant, like you know, every morning, every afternoon bang, bang, bang, bang, bang bang. I think that I'm not really keen on this spot, so I'm going to move on. In all the years I've been shooting, I've seen one crocodile outside of the season and I've been all. I don't know how many have seen me probably a lot more have seen me but I haven't had any trouble with crocodiles.
Speaker 2:But I take a few precautions. You know you try and avoid areas that they like, the launching areas, deep water. Going into those types of areas, I take some risks I shouldn't take as well. I know I'll get a lot of criticism out of it some of the things I'll say, but I'm telling you plain and simple what I do.
Speaker 2:I try and take in a poll as well to try, and if I'm shooting up near the water I'll sort of poke around the water in front of me just in case one is getting there. It's not foolproof, but at least it's something. We also run dogs as well, retrieving dogs, and I'll probably get a lot of criticism of this as well, and one of the main reasons is because of the crocodiles. Look in my Labrador. It's a working dog and I love him, but I also love my legs at the end of the day. So I won't put him into any undue extra risk. I'll only send him into areas which I think there's no crocodile, but there'll be an opportunity for him to get a bird safely. But it's also nice to not go in the water.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. No, I understand what you're saying there, without being too blunt about it. But the reason I ask so there's some places in the States where the hunting happens for elk and things like that. The bears are that attuned to it that as soon as they hear a gunshot they come running because they know that's a dinner bell. The other thing is community. A lot of the hunting I did over there was two or three ridges away from community, like a two-day horse ride. So those bears weren't associating our scent with food or you know opportunity at least. So eat food or you you know rubbish or extra snacks. But obviously they could be opportunistic and come across a tent and smell something and go for it. But that hasn't been my experience. My experience with that was in towns and close to towns and that's where a lot of the problems happen. Where you know these heavily hunted areas, there's always gunshots and dead elk gunshot, another dead elk and they just put two and two together. I wasn't sure if the crocodiles had done similar, but hopefully not.
Speaker 2:No, no, and look, one of the things I look for as I am in the water. I'll go up into the water Because I try as hard as I can to retrieve every single bird. Yes, and so I will go up in the water sometimes and grab a goose if it's close to the edge. There hasn't been that I remember, except one a crocodile attack on a waterfowl hunter up here in the Northern Territory. I've only been living up here for 17 years, so I don't have the full range. There was one about maybe about three, maybe four years ago, but that was out on an Aboriginal community and down south, it wasn't in the Darwin area and the guy stepped on top of it and I think that's probably the biggest danger is stepping on one, not it's coming for you Sure, and it grabbed him, or he got away pretty safely and it was funny because he was in the local news that he said it was a bit sore. So they went and grabbed a six-pack of beer and then went to the hospital or something like that. He's a local Aboriginal guy, so down south. But I've never heard of any other interactions with waterfowl hunters and crocodiles.
Speaker 2:But when I'm in the water and I see a dead bird sitting there. I know there's a crocodile in the water because it's not coming after me. It's going after an easy snack. An easy snack is a dead bird in the water and I'm sure a crocodile is like sitting there going. There's a dead bird there but I'm going to wait for a human to come. There's an easy feed just there. We're going to grab that and piss off. That's the way I look at it, and so I've had maybe one incident where I thought like I put some birds down, I shot two birds and then I was tipped on shooting, but I moved around. I knew the birds were sitting over there and for the life of me I reckon I looked for those birds for another hour in the same spot and then somehow I don't know where they went. So that's the only time.
Speaker 2:I've sort of possibly Other than that, nothing. It's a big topic though up here, big topic, massive topic.
Speaker 1:What's the conditions this season? I know you and I have been talking now for a few weeks and you've been sending me updates and you're excited because the first birds come into Darwin and that's the start. What are the sort of numbers looking like heading into this season? It's been a very wet season, hasn't it last year?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. We've had about four years of really good wet.
Speaker 1:The last four years have been fantastic.
Speaker 2:Prior to that, we had about three to four years of really bad wet, and that's when we went down to about three very bad units. But then the last four years we've had heaps of water, a lot of water. But then the last four years we've had heaps of water, a lot of water, and, as you're probably aware, we don't have rain for three to four months a year. Not a drop, not a single drop. Actually, we had the first rain of the season today. Last night and today was the first rain of the season.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you a story about that before you go on. I do know that it's like that up there, so I'm just looking at my about that before you go on. I do know that it's like that up there, but so I'm just looking at my calendar. When I was up there, I was up there on the 16th of July through to the 25th of July and it was on the 23rd of maybe the 24th, 23rd or 24th of July and obviously we're in the dry season in Verticomps. Never rains up here. No, it never rains up here, and we were offshore fishing and we got rained on.
Speaker 1:And we even said to the guide and you'd probably know of him or who he is but he said no, that's not a rain cloud that won't make it over here. No, no, that'll, no, no, no. You know what I'm talking about. We got rained on on the boat. It wasn't terrible because it was warm anyway, but then we got back to we were fishing out of oh, you said it earlier, where does the inner start. What's?
Speaker 2:that little town there.
Speaker 1:Dundee River, no, the big fishing town with the big pub on the beach, oh, dundee, dundee Beach, that's right, and that's where we were fishing out of. Anyway, we got back to Dundee and then the whole road, mostly all the way to Darwin, was wet. They actually had a bit of a storm, so that's an anomaly. But yes, I understand what you mean. It is a dry time of year which is great and reliable for hunting, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's good Like I prefer hunting when it's wet for people and stuff. But we got our first big rain in Darwin today and we normally get it around September. People say, oh, it's a wet season early, but then it sort of stays around for about a week or so. But we've got enough water in our billabongs, in our swamp systems from the last four years to cover us across. It wouldn't have to rain for another two months and we'd still have plenty of water. It doesn't really affect the birds that much at the start. They'll come in no matter what. So there's water here. It affects them as the buildup starts and the wet buildup starts and there's more water around. Then they spread out a lot more. So it's actually a bit more difficult to shoot them when there's a lot of water around. So, and that they will change their habits as well um, I do, yeah, yeah, so the water? Uh, yeah, so the water affects them, but it's not the rain yesterday or the rain last week, it's two years ago that affects them.
Speaker 1:Not the current storms.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. That affects the tracks, because the tracks up here you can get on that mud plane, on that black mud that you get on the floodplains, and it doesn't matter what car you've got on. It doesn't matter what car you've got, that's your bombs and it's a hazard, Probably a bigger hazard than more than anything up here I see that in your updates when you were telling people how to access some of these.
Speaker 1:you know spots of land and you were saying that track's good, but you know, stay on the high side or gets pretty rutted.
Speaker 2:No, it's really important. It's one of the main reasons I started my Facebook page, because I remember lying in bed, going I wonder what that track's like when it's raining, because you can hear the rain coming and you're like I wonder what it's like. You go on the bomb and you can see it go over the hunting reserves and you're like I haven't been for a week. I wonder what it's like, and you go on the bomb and you can see it go over the hunting reserves and you're like I haven't been in for a week. I wonder what that track's like. It's one of the main reasons I started that Facebook page is so people could, you know, be more, because you can be 40 minutes out of Darwin on a track and you won't see anybody for days. You could be bombed and it's the heat up here and you get heat stroke and you're bombed. Yeah, it's dangerous and you're not that far out of darwin, so it's really. You have to be self-reliant up here.
Speaker 2:Do you have reception out there? Um, most places we do, but it doesn't matter. Uh, the closest place here is shoal bay, um, and I would say half of it would have a phone reception. Harrison Dam is pretty good. The tracks are a little bit dodgy but Shoal Bay is the dodgiest place. It's the tracks over there.
Speaker 1:In one of our conversations you spoke about some of the gear you've got. I just want to run through. You were talking about decoys and the field and game was. It Bought a pallet load and you ended up with some of them, but they're hard to come by or non-existent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're really hard to come by. I'm thinking it's like eight years ago, maybe even a bit longer, and they're called FUDSudge fold-up decoys. They're from America, they're pretty good and it's really just like a photograph of the bird and they fold up. They're easy to carry around, easy to deploy, they're pretty durable as well. But I think you know, I got a few when they first came out, but now it's getting harder and harder, because I rang up the company or emailed them and said oh, you know, can I get a few more of these and tell them on my facebook page? And they said I have to buy a pallet and I couldn't move a pallet. But the thing is with decoys, I don't know, like I'm not, I'm not overly excited. I've got them and I'll use them. I think they're more for me than the birds. And do they come down? Maybe, maybe.
Speaker 2:But the way we hunt for magpie geese up here, we look for flight paths. That's probably our most important way of locating them and trying to bring them or to harvest them is to look at their flight path. So it means you need a lot of legwork. You've got to find where they're going and it changes from year to year. It changes from different parts of the season as well. Looking for that perfect flight path. There are some sort of main flight paths that you can sort of guarantee in, and Harrison Dam is one of them. It's one of the most popular places to hunt. Yeah, so decoys are my soul limit. I guess so, because I bought a whole heap of them and when they come up on Marketplace I jump straight on them. Are you shooting?
Speaker 1:them as they're passing over you or coming to land. I know there's a bit of a and feel free to talk to this or poo-poo it, but and this is anecdotal because I'm not a duck hunter there's a bit of a gentlemanly rule where you don't shoot them on the water. You've got to shoot them either when they're coming in or like is that a?
Speaker 2:law or is it just a? No, it's not a law.
Speaker 1:Like I said, it's more of a Just a fair chase type thing.
Speaker 2:It's a fair chase. I'll get a lot of criticism for this. I will. But look, I'm out to get, I'm out to harvest birds, okay, and if they're shooting on the water with no hunters around, like you know, there's no hunters around I will shoot them. I'll shoot them on the water. Am I going to wait for them to get on the wind? I'm not an aristocrat who sits around. It's not a sport. It's not a sport for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's protein shopping.
Speaker 2:It's a harvest and I try and do it with as little fast as possible, burning up as less fuel as possible with, uh, with most respect to the animal as possible.
Speaker 1:um, so you're right, and a lot of people do only shoot on the wing and good good on them but I I hear you're there- from a hunting point of point of view it's a similar conversation, especially in the trophy hunting side of things. But bedded animals. So I 10 times, 10 out of 10 times, shoot a bedded animal if the opportunity presented, because they're calm, they're generally facing away from you because you've come in from behind. You need to understand anatomy and how things get squished up and where to aim. But at least if you shoot them and it's not the amazing shot you wanted it to be, which happens again the same with on the water.
Speaker 1:They then try and fly and you get another shot, whereas a bedded animal and that stirs some people up that they will wait until the animal stands up to shoot it. You could be waiting hours or you could make noise. I know a lot of the pig hunting guys will shoot. You know they always shoot boars that are in a wallow or bedded on the side of a creek and there's no issue with that. But from a deer hunting point of view it's definitely a little bit of a frowned upon thing.
Speaker 2:I think it's even more like you know, a lot of duck hunting, yeah, that'll. Like I said, I'll get a lot of criticism. Um, I thought you know that's. I'm telling you how I do it and good luck to other people who do it their way. I do it my way well for those people.
Speaker 1:We are interviewing david roberts, not them. So we're hearing about your story, that's it that's exactly right so you also put up on the page today and we'll tell people at the end what the page is called. They can jump across, but you put up some blinds that you'd made. Uh, what's the? Is that something new for you or you're just trying a different?
Speaker 2:option. Well, last year, last year, I got caught out in the open too many times. Um, there's some great places to shoot where they get a cover, but I found like I think I was probably missing 50% of the birds I could have been shooting. So this year I really, you know, and I love how the Americans do their blinds, you know, and they've got, you know. You see their portable hides. They've got cookers, they've got lounges, they've got beds. They of a hive, they've got cookers, they've got lounges, they've got beds, they've got tvs. They jump up and shoot.
Speaker 2:It might not like that they're gonna be wrong, but I just love the dedication and the effort that americans go to in this is duck hunting in their sports. Well, the sports that they do, they really go to it and I think that we sometimes we get a bit lazy up here in the territory. Um, people don't wear camo when they go down. They just rock up in a pair of rugby shorts and whatever shirt that they've just been wearing to work in the afternoon and with a pair of thongs on and just rock up and have a go. You know we're still shooting birds, but I really enjoy that part of it and going the extra mile and getting the extra birds.
Speaker 1:I liken it to shooting versus hunting and like those guys are shooting and you're hunting. Obviously the same outcome shoot birds, but different approach.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I will probably get more birds at the end of the day and that will go on the morning out. Well, I'll hopefully get my bag on this year I just brought to myself. Actually, I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it and I did and it was a bit of a rush actually, I did it last night and today just doing stuff from Bunnings, but I got some. You know, the Baloney style roofs, the old grass sort of stuff. I got some off Marketplace the other day, man, it looked unreal. Did you have a Facebook page, man? I'm so proud of it. My daughter calls it my cubby house. Now I can't wait to get it ripped. I really can't.
Speaker 1:The problem. I don't know if they have it over there in their swamps, but if you set that up over here, it would just be full of snakes and spiders by next season.
Speaker 2:No, this is portable. I've made it portable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you'll bring it home each season, those guys over there, I mean they'll make a pond with a built-in, you know, they'll drop a 40-foot container and bury it and just leave it just above and then they'll flood it every season and plant the rice and stuff or whatever it is to bring in ducks.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. Dedication I plant the rice and stuff or whatever it is to bring in ducks. That's amazing Dedication. I really appreciate the effort that Americans go to their duck hunting. They're fanatical about it.
Speaker 1:Do you have many Americans, or have you seen many Americans or heard of them? Come across and have a go, or do they just not know about it.
Speaker 2:No, no, what I was saying about the magpies. It's such an unusual bird and you know there's some Americans who are really dedicated to this sport and they will travel the world shooting birds and, like I said, the Magpies, this is only one of its species and the last one. It's a very unique bird and I think it was last year or the year before they had a really famous duck hunter called Randy Russell come in. He's massive. He's massive in the States. He's got something like 500,000 followers or something like that, and so he came and shot a few birds here and ever since then I get messages from Americans now wanting to come over to Australia.
Speaker 2:And it comes back to the point where I really think that Northern Territory could capitalise on tourism and getting that American market. As you know, it's a high-valued market as well and they like spending money and they gather. A lot of effort. I've had, I think, even just alone this season, maybe, I would say about maybe six inquiries of people. Where can I do this? What can I do? See, they're disappointed because we don't have outfitters for waterfowl.
Speaker 1:That was my next question. Yeah, Is there no one guiding that?
Speaker 2:Nobody guiding, because I don't think you're allowed to guide on the public hunting reserve, so you'd have to do it. You can shoot magpie geese on public or private land, so that's the only way you could do it. So I think if they did it out of the arm land or some buff hunters put it together.
Speaker 1:The tricky part is it's still buff season now. So I mean, yeah, it's sort of the buff hunters and the guides are out buff hunting. Yeah. So there would be an option for this late season buffalo stuff to add it on and then do a joint thing, because we always come back that way on the way through to Darwin to fly out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it would be a good option to add on. Oh, it would be fantastic, but really the laws don't allow it. I really think we're missing out on an opportunity, especially even, you know, in the local. You know people could get a, you know they could get their outfitting and guiding together and it's another. It could be another part of their culture that they could share with overseas tourists.
Speaker 1:I know who I'd be employing as a guide.
Speaker 2:Yeah right. Yeah yeah, I'm too busy at work, mate. I'm too busy at work every day just to do this on my time off and it would be, I think, a really interesting concept and a real bonus for ATt tourism absolutely great bonus talking about the americans and obviously envying.
Speaker 1:You know their setup and that they've also got a lot of funding going into conservation and you know preserving the legacy and the heritage of what they're doing. Is that something you see up there? I mean, with it being free access, basically, and open slather and not a lot of finance coming from it. Is there any you know finances going into conservation, or is it even necessary?
Speaker 2:The biggest threat is not the hunters to the magpie population. Actually the threat is to salt water incursion into their nesting site. This is the biggest problem. So it's a land management thing and mostly out near that Kakabee area and buffaloes have a problem. Part of that problem so conservation itself. Like hunters and it's a very small hunting population up here when you consider around about two and a half thousand hunters, not very big You're not going to get that much money out of them for major projects and national parks up here. Anti-national parks do the compliance and the maintenance of the hunting reserves there is if you come up, just like any park, national park up here, if you're outside of the Northern Territory resident you have to pay a fee as well. It's just like going to Kakadu you have to pay a fee if you're a non-resident. So that's only started in the last, I reckon maybe the last two years I've noticed that happening.
Speaker 1:Do you have to be with as an interstater on that topic? Do you have to be with? So correct me if I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure that if you want to hunt Litchfield, which is public land, access for buffalo hunting and pigs through that program. You need to be with a resident, that's right.
Speaker 2:So is that a safety issue? No, I just think it's got to do with you know, like if you finally got the ability to shoot buffalo because you can't get a permit to shoot buffalo up here as just a regular person I know you can, you know your own property but that's not issued by the government that permit. So back country hunting was a first opportunity for, I guess, your regular Darwinite or NT guy to actually shoot a buffalo on public land and it also helped out Litchfield National Park in the culling process.
Speaker 2:But what I think it was was there wasn't a big influx of people down south coming up and shooting the buffalo or maxing out the renting or doing the lease on the land the booking, I think that, and so they didn't want all southerners coming up maximising their bookings and then it wouldn't be an opportunity for Northern Territory to go and shoot buffalo, and I think that was the only reason you don't have to be with a resident up here. It's always good to go with a resident because it maximises your choices and chances and knowing the tracks like I said, the tracks are a bit dodgy up here. I'm always happy to help people out up here and that's one of the things I focused on this year was pointing out hunting spots on my page and just identifying each reserve where the flight paths are and just to help people out you know, just to give them an opportunity to come up here if you're from Victoria or South Australia and just go.
Speaker 2:oh, you know, I can hire a four-wheel drive, I can go in this place. It's nice and easy, you know. As you know, hunting's about going and have a look at a little sniff around, and then come back the next year and go yeah, I'll go here, yeah, I'll go there. You know that's what hunting's all about just having a little bit of a push in, having a look around, and I think that would be a great opportunity for, like I said, the Northern Territory to really develop something like that up here.
Speaker 1:Has there been any pushback from the traditional hunters about your openness about that? I feel like there's a couple of fellas in mind that I'm picturing who, on the State Forest pages and things like that, are starting to shoot deer successfully and say, hey, I shot this deer there and that's stirring people up because, oh, you can't give away their spots. And just one example um, one person I'm talking about and he's listening, he'll know how I'm talking about, but he said I can give you the gps coordinates that I shot that deer in and you will never shoot a deer there and, and I asked him why and he said because I'm, he said I'm chasing.
Speaker 1:He said you may, I shouldn't say never. And he said because I'm, he said I'm chasing. He said you may, I shouldn't say never. But he said the GPS coordinates is 5% of the situation. It's the moon, the weather, the wind, the temperature, the camo, the approach, the time he's put into it, all these other things play into it, and then luck, they've got to be there. The deer's a little bit different because we're not chasing migration like you guys are, but there's definitely a lot of blowback from people being annoyed about him giving out spots. And yeah, obviously are you. Are you copying some of that too?
Speaker 2:look, I 100% agree. What, what he, what he, the way he thinks, because people are lazy. You can give them the best spot and they, they don't go. They like, oh yeah, we'll go there, we'll do this, and they never go. They never go. You know, like I'm out having a go and the birds will move. Look, I can give them one spot.
Speaker 1:It's going to change next season yeah, it has worked in the past, but it might not work this season it's going to change.
Speaker 2:Next week it'll change. You have to move around. Birds aren't there. You have to move around. I've been to places where hundreds coming over the top, two weeks later, not a single bird there. Go back to the same spot at the same time of the year next year not a bird there. Two years later, not a bird there. But then they're back again and you've really got to move around. You've got to do your work and what I did was I gave people starting points on where to go, but the legwork is up to them. They really have to do their work.
Speaker 2:And I get more pushback from the guys I hunt with because every time we go out they're like make sure you don't put it on your page, make sure you don't put it on your page. I'm like, well, I sort sort of I'm not stupid, I normally put it. I've got a two week delay and I put it on the spot or I try not to put. I put a general area where they might be moving around. Um, but my page is not really for like really experienced people, because they're just doing their own thing. They don't need my help. It's more, for I really love helping people get a an understanding of the birds up here, because I love it.
Speaker 2:I love it, I love showing people how good it is up here and new people coming into the territory and giving them that little bit of knowledge and a little bit of a taste and and then moving on and not, you know, giving them, and then they can be a success and keep on going. They're the people I target and it's the old local guys. So what, I don't care. I've never listened to anybody on it Criticizing them. It's criticizing them anyway. So I'm hardly going to listen to those guys. But they're doing their own thing, you know, and I've put most of my site spots in there, most of them. I left out the little hidden gems here and there which I enjoy shooting, yeah, and you really have to know what's happening to know where they are as well.
Speaker 1:Keep those honey holes up your sleeve.
Speaker 2:Exactly, but most of them are there. I've put every single sight. All the reserves, all the good flight paths were expected, so yeah on.
Speaker 1:Uh, on the topic of, you know, helping new people out, we I was thinking about it earlier when you were saying you just had your first rain. I had some friends just go hunting on the weekend from our local club and they got snowed on. They had five inches of snow, which is late in the year for snow, and they were down in the you know um maragal area. But you know it's not particularly, it's not the high country, and but a topic that came up from that hunt was a bit about hunter etiquette. They had some beginners there and hunter etiquette around camp and just around the hunting side of it, have you? You know it's something I try and instil in people. The hunting is only a fraction of it, but what you do during, before and after, is also important.
Speaker 1:What are some things that you know is important when you're?
Speaker 2:in these wetlands. Yeah, look, and bird hunting is difficult than deer hunting because you're more shoulder to shoulder, especially on public land, you know you can be shooting because you're looking for a flight path as well, so and there are premium spots and you can be standing shoulder to shoulder. But all the years I've been shooting like I probably had one bad incident where you know somebody had been there in the morning. They rocked up late and sat right in front of me, but really it's not that common. So that would be one etiquette is to be, you know, give the next hunter enough space. We don't have that. We have some shooting. It's busy, but really if you're going shooting during the week, like, you can have Harrison down, there might be maybe six cars down there so you can shoot your spot. You want to shoot most of the time. Weekends, like, just like everywhere, can be a little bit crowded. So I mean, one of the I guess the biggest issues of etiquette is picking up shells and picking up rubbish and stuff going along.
Speaker 2:That's probably one of my things I want to try and focus on this year. Look, I don't understand why people do it, you know, but it happens and I guess changing, look, I understand for young guys, you know, getting new into it, just learning sort of how to hunt and maybe dropping a few shells here and there, but there's some which you know. So I sort of try and focus on those guys, new guys coming in. Like I said, my page is sort of people, sort of like learning a little bit, and I try and focus on. You know, like I don't criticise people, I thank people for picking shells up. Hopefully, you know. I think if you start yelling at people, there's just going just taking one in their approach um, yeah another etiquette.
Speaker 2:Yeah go, sorry, there you go another etiquette thing up here is disposing of birds as well. Um, you have to. Uh, look the the mancogus is a big bird, okay, so you will. Um, some people will breast it and leg it, and then you've got a bit of carcass left. The reason they do that is because there's hardly any fat on water fowl. It's not like a chicken that you get from a shop, where there's meat everywhere. The breast and the legs is the main source and there's not much meat left over from that. So you're left over with a carcass after that.
Speaker 2:And so one of the rules are that you are dispersed of the birds. You're supposed to disperse them, okay, and so you would do it. You know, that's up to you how you consider disperseing them. You know, 10 metres over there back into the bushes, 10 metres over there back into the bushes, and you spread your birds around and move them around a bit. There have been some times where people haven't done that very effectively. But you know, when I'm scouting out new areas, I look for dead birds and those lazy guys who don't carry their birds away. I go oh yeah, OK, if I've never been to a spot. Oh, there's a dead bird there. They must be shooting birds here. I'm going to come back here tomorrow morning and shoot their spots. So clean your birds up and then people are going to take your spot. So that's one of the main ways I've found.
Speaker 1:Hide the evidence.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've found over the years, finding new spots and looking for dead birds. If you're lazy and you're not picking your birds up or moving them around, that's it. I'm on your spot tomorrow.
Speaker 1:And what are you shooting with Shotgun, obviously, but still lead up there, is it no?
Speaker 2:no, you're not allowed to use lead shot just for toxicity. They're allowed to shoot lead shot in communities but not in our local hunting reserves. So, steel shot I'm a cheap ass hunter in communities but not in our local hunting reserves like field shot. I? Um I'm a cheap ass hunter. I'm not going for the big uh, you know, goose hunting um shells which cost like 360, 300 dollars um a packet. I go for the cheapest one on the market at the time, the one on sale.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, sometimes I most of the time I prefer dds. They've got a bit of a punch to them um, and the magpie gets a really coarse feathers and you can nail a goose and it'll just keep on flying and you go. I know I hit it, I heard it hit it, but it just like ricochets off their feathers, you know, and it's like. So you need a bit of something, a little bit of power, a bit of pack um but packs, a bit of punch but um, last year I shot some uh number twos which a little bit more like a little bit more diversity, with ducks as well. Like I said, I'm not much of a duck hunter, so I ain't chasing it. And the only reason I had these, because a friend was selling and he had a whole heap of them. Yeah, it'm like yeah, okay, it's cheap.
Speaker 1:Are you trying to head and neck? Is that your preference? Or shot, or you just center mass?
Speaker 2:I try center mass because the down setters are a lot easier to penetrate. I've found for me yeah, if he's going away from you, like if you shoot him up the back setters, no way you'll get them down. Some of those long shot, high shot that some waterfowl hunters like to go for, it's almost impossible to get those bigger birds In that case you've got to go for a head shot. They're tough birds, hardy birds, hard to bring down.
Speaker 1:You've really got gotta nail them when they're flying flat, or you know, I mean not like upright, like they're coming into land, is their head stationary, like I'm picturing like a canadian goose in the. There's a movie fly away home and they're, all you know, flying in formation and they're like dead flat. It's just the wings moving and the torso and neck are just straight. Is that realistic, yeah?
Speaker 2:No, that's how they. It's the same. They act in a very similar way as the Canadian goose and the snow goose and maybe like they're not the numbers but the bird itself, the way it flies. It doesn't glide, it's always flapping, so you can sort of tell what's coming in and it's good because it's a larger bird. We've got two main protected species up here that we can't shoot, which is the Burdekin duck, but it's pure white and it knows it's protected. It'll fly straight at you but it's a little bit smaller so you can tell and it's got a squeak to it and it's white. So the other one is the pygmy goose. It's a lot smaller.
Speaker 2:Faster than so it's hard to to obvious difference. Yeah, yeah, so bird identification is pretty easy up here in that respect for protected species to um the old magpie goose, yeah so you alluded to it at the start.
Speaker 1:I want to heading to the end here. I want to get to the exciting part, which is the food. What are we doing with it? You're saying breasting and legging. What sort of how much meat are you getting off?
Speaker 2:I have to stop you there first, because all the local guys Aboriginal local guys if I don't mention it, they'll come for me.
Speaker 1:They love the wings.
Speaker 2:No, you should be plucking it. You should be plucking the whole bird, kicking the whole bird, splitting it down the middle, popping it open and putting it on the hot coal fire. That's how they do it. That's how they've done it for thousands of years.
Speaker 1:I've seen them do it with a. What's the other one they get? We can't shoot it, but the local fellas can. It's a tall bird it's like a. It's like a big curler, yeah yeah, so I've seen them do it with that and they just throw the whole thing on the fire feathers and all that's it.
Speaker 2:There you go. They call it like a dinosaur bird for some reason, I don't know. I've got a funny story because a friend of mine he said that because he had a wife and they were out in the floodplains coming back from somewhere and they shot this bird, put it in the back of the car, and they're massive birds. They're like small eagles, they're like little, they're massive Anyway. And apparently they had knocked it out and it came back alive in the back of the car. I haven't eaten them, but geez, dude, that would have been an event. Let me tell you.
Speaker 2:So have you plucked one. I've plucked them. They're a lot of work and really caught feathers as well. But I advocate that you shouldn't be plucking them so I don't get a lot of slack off the local guys. But you know, if you're shooting in an aboriginal spot, because you will see feathers everywhere. So they're saying you know, when the locals have been shooting in that spot, feathers they will do it and they're hardcore, they will pluck all day long.
Speaker 2:The way I do it mostly is breastfeeding. You can do it. It's like a waterfowl, it's a heavily worked meat so you either got to flash it really fast, fry it really fast or cook it for eight hours, nine hours. So different parts of the goose are better for some things. The legs I would take off and put in the slow cooker for eight hours and then even wait, let it sit overnight and then reheat it again the next morning and just the meat comes off, pulls off the bone, um.
Speaker 2:But the way I prefer to eat it, two ways. One is with schnitzels, because you can bash it out and tenderize the breast. That's right, it goes, and you taste the bird. You know you're not really overpowering it with any other flavor. Bam, like that, um, and the other one I do is the hot smoke, the breast. But, like I'm saying, we've got a big greek community up here. They love to do it and they reckon it's the best way of having it. It's unreal. They just sit it on the charcoal, turn it around. If you see a Greek guy up here in the Northern Territory hunting geese, you know he's taking it home to people.
Speaker 1:Is that full birds? They just do the full bird. They sort of cut it up, they chop it off and put it on a sword and then over she goes, mate, they love it. They love it. And quantity-wise, I'm picturing a large chicken breast being similar to a goose breast, or do you think they're a bit? Bigger.
Speaker 2:For a bird. I reckon you're probably getting around about. It's a big breast. It's a big breast. I reckon you probably get about maybe three and a half kilos, maybe.
Speaker 1:Of meat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, it's a big bird. Maybe three, maybe two and a half kilos maybe, of meat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, it's a big bird, considering just for reference, because I like my charcoal chicken. Most charcoal chickens you get from charcoal chicken are 1.7 to 1.9, it's called so that's what they weigh 1.9 kilos as a charcoal chicken. So that's including the frame. But yeah, bigger than that, right?
Speaker 2:No, it would be bigger. It would be bigger. It's a really red meat as well, like you get the you know waterfowl or getting waterfowl. You know it's a heavily worked breast, so there's a lot of blood pumped through it. When you get your chicken, it's white because it hasn't been done anything. So heavily worked breast, yeah, so heavily worked breast, yeah, a little bit of fat on it. You get a lot of orange fat and the bird changes throughout the year. You'll get later, towards the end of the year, you'll get them sitting on chestnuts water chestnuts, native ones and so the locals prefer that time of the year because it just adds to the flavour. But then you've got them up in the mango farms as well and people reckon they take on the. You know animals take on what they eat, and so they might get a little bit of a mango flavour to them as well.
Speaker 1:It'd be nice to get a bit of mango chutney on there. I've been using a friend of mine, a colleague of work, I should say. He's been making biltong for me, and when I was in Africa, I should say he's been making biltong for me and when I was in Africa I picked up this flavouring.
Speaker 1:I didn't buy it there, I picked up a love for it and then I bought some, since. But it's a dried mango chutney powder, and then, after you cut the biltong up, you sprinkle it on like we would chicken salt, you put it in a brown bag and you shake it around after you've sliced it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1:That's good I love biltong. Well, on the food, can you jerky the breast or anything, or biltong is the thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does jerky, you can do it other. You can do pastrami. I've seen a few recipes. You can do it just like with kebabs as well, as long as it's done fast, the breath easy, easy. And see a lot of people. It's like everything you say oh yeah, I've been catching eating that. Oh, it's too tough, they just haven't cooked it. They don't cook it properly. Yeah, it's like you know that's all it's gaining, is it really?
Speaker 1:That was my other question. What about flavor Tastes?
Speaker 2:like magpies, I don't know, actually smell things different rather than taste something different. I can smell a magpug, just that's how I recognize it um, like a venison, or uh, I smell um. It's. It's not gamey, um, but there's also ways around that. You know soaking in milk, all those types of things, and you know it's just like um in the schnitzel. I've never had anybody say I do not like that, that doesn't taste good. I've always had people say it's a ripper.
Speaker 1:Previous podcasts I've been putting this out there, where you know people can send in a question and I've had a whole heap come in and basically we read them out on air two or three and you answer them based on your experience and then you you pick the best question and that person wins a hat. And then all the questions that get sent in over the year, everyone goes in the draw to win a hunt with me, which you and I need to talk about, because you're interested in shooting fallow.
Speaker 1:I do and I'm interested in shooting geese. I'm just going through my phone here pulling up the list of questions because I want to. I know you're a hunter as well outside of of just. You're not just a goose, not just a goose hunter. And uh, I'll add hunter there, I won't just say goose yeah yeah, I did it on purpose. Um, I'm just trying to find there. Well, there's no duck specific ones, that's for sure. Or goose specific. Um, that's a good question, but not for this one. Uh, no, that's a female related one, right?
Speaker 2:here we go.
Speaker 1:This is from ian kelly. Uh, what was the most important thing you learnt in the first year of hunting and what do you wish you had learnt in the first year of hunting? So what's your hunting background? Where did you start as a kid?
Speaker 2:No, I actually come from a fishing background. I was in the fishing industry for quite some time and that led off into like for wow how many years, maybe 10 years mostly out at Lord Howe Island fishing, and then I got into I'm still in the Northern Territory I sort of changed from fishing and then I got introduced to waterfowl hunting that way and hunting more into it. But my wife's from Zealand and her father they come from the Taupo area and her father loves his hunting, loves it, loves it, you know, and I've done a bit of deer hunting there, you know, and so mostly I've done it in New Zealand and they've helicoptered into a few places. I haven't done any in Australia at all except up here in the Orly Territory.
Speaker 2:I mostly travel to New Zealand. I love it going over there, so I've shot a few fellows. But what we chase mostly over in Taupo are the seeker deer, and I wish there were an easier deer to hunt, but I'm sure it's got to be the hardest. Deer too are the seeker deer, and I wish there were an easier deer to hunt, but I'm sure it's got to be the hardest deer to hunt. Is the seeker deer Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah so that's probably my hunting background. I've probably been doing water to hunting for maybe 17 years and you know, with that is pig hunting up here as well on the hunting reserve. So I've chased a few pigs. Do you want me to answer the question?
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you remember what it was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember. Sorry, I could talk a bit. I can remember what it is. What would I like to the first year is putting in the time and effort. You've got to put the time and effort in and you might get lucky and nail something the first trip that you go on. But it takes time. It takes time learning an area, learning the animals as well, its habits, knowing about your conditions, knowing about yourself as well what your capabilities are yeah, your conditions. Knowing about yourself as well what your capabilities are yeah. Knowing your animal is probably what I would have liked to have known in my first year of hunting.
Speaker 1:And then, with that in mind, what's something? If you could just teach all your beginners one question or one thing to learn, what would that be? What would be the most important thing? The same thing again.
Speaker 2:The same thing again, but I think I would put a bit more time in the on the range as well. Yes, um, getting to know guns. I'm not a gun person like um. I. I use them to go and collect food and come back, yeah, um, but I, I know that, understand the value of of them and understanding a well-placed shot now, and especially in long range or in scrub as well. Just, yeah, having a well-placed shot and the ability to have a. I would have spent more time in the range earlier as I started.
Speaker 1:It's a good point and people that listen regularly will probably get sick of me drumming on about this, but I think with our current hunting system we have here in New South Wales, the majority of people coming into the sport as newbies are heading towards the R licence system on public land and they spend a lot of time learning how to hunt, not as much time learning how to hunt, not as much time learning how to shoot and then when the time comes to shoot something on their hunting trip, something happens.
Speaker 1:They quite often they'll get it right and everything goes to plan, but it's just because it actually you know, coincidentally works, not because they had the right. You know the breathing shooting methods, standing offhand, leaning up against a tree and things like that. So more range time. It doesn't matter what level of our sport you're at. The more time you can spend at the range, the better you are. Before I go on a big trip where I know shots are important, I wouldn't call a buffalo trip an important shot trip because there's so many buffalo it's not an issue. But if you're out out, you know you're going on a red deer hunt or something and there's only one opportunity you're going to get all week I'll go out the back paddock and shoot 100 rounds with a .22.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it counts, it just counts. It's just confidence just before. So that was the first one, that was from Ian. Second one from Dallas Newsome For Southern Australia. He's excluding buffalo, I won't know why. We'll get onto this in a second For Southern Australia. What is your favourite calibre or cartridge for normal species goats, pigs, deer In your personal collection, rot Rifle do you like the most and always seem to pick up first.
Speaker 2:I've only got two guns. That's it, which is pretty unusual for a hunter. I'm sure you've probably got a good collection. I'm sure everybody listening has got massive collections, but I try and keep it to a minimum which the guns I only use or need to use.
Speaker 1:How many fishing rods have you got, oh?
Speaker 2:jeez, yeah, see, I've got 20. I've got one for everything. If I go on the boat by myself, I take eight rods on.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's because I've got one for that, one for this, two for that, one for that.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it's the same with us for shooting. Yeah, that's because we've got one for that, one for this, two for that, one for that. Okay, so it's the same with us for shooting yeah look, I totally understand what's your rifle calibre. You've got a 12 gauge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's 12 gauge and I've got a .308. I shoot a Leetgoat .308. Great gun, cheap, it was cheap. Great Australian gun. Pull pulled it out of the box, nailed animals left, right and center with it. Good, cheap, reliable gun for me. And yeah, so that's the two calibers and two rifles I have.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, I'll answer the question, because I mean I think.
Speaker 1:I've met Dallas just recently and I think he was aiming this at me specifically but my favourite, which does get a fair run, even though it's not the great things for the animals I'm shooting. But it's my 416 Ruger and it's a big gun. It's my guide gun, but I just love it. I love big calibres. You know, I'm a big enough guy I can handle it. It doesn't hurt that bad, it doesn't hurt at all. Really it's a push and I've shot buffalo with it, pigs with it, I've shot rabbit with it, I've shot deer with it, goats it turns those smaller things inside out, but it's just. The most fun thing to do with that gun is to take it to the range and let someone shoot it. Who only shoots?
Speaker 2:.308s. Oh, right, right. Well, that's a good question I would have for you. Okay, so I've got my two guns, two workhorses. What would you suggest to go to the next to put in my gun safe, like in AP, or with those two which are totally opposite? Yep, no, that's a good start it's a good question.
Speaker 1:My my follow-up I? I rarely answer a question straight away. My follow-up question is what do you want to use it for? Because, a bit like your fishing situation, quite often you go on a hunting trip to a property and you're like, all right, well, there's, there's rabbits, there's goats, there's deer and there. Well, if I can only take one gun, a .308 is going to do all of those things successfully. You're going to turn your rabbits into mist. But if I'm going away for a week and I'm on a property and there's a bit of downtime, I'll take a .22 to walk around, shoot some rabbits, shoot some cans, shoot some targets, have
Speaker 1:some fun. But .223 is my favourite calibre for small to medium game Across the board, for plinking, shooting targets. It has no recoil. It's, you know, an effectively cheap round to use. I've got two, three, I think, .223s in the cabinet. One's the wife and two of mine and it's that's one of my favorites and that's following on from his question here. My favorite caliber would be the 416, but my favorite gun would be one of my two, two, threes. It's just it's dead accurate every time, out to three or four hundred meters. I know what it's doing. I'll happily shoot deer with that, and by deer I mean fallow. I'm not talking sambar and reds, but the majority of my local hunting is fallow. So I'll take that because I know I can head and neck shot, you know, all day, every day, out the window. It's not a hunting rifle, it's pretty heavy, it's a uh, you know my spotlighting regal. You know I'll take it on a hunt, but it's, it's a heavier setup.
Speaker 1:So uh, that's my answer to your question. And, dallas's, I think 223 should be at everyone's. But in saying that, I love guns and I really think everyone should in the country should own a 22, uh just for that practice, irrelevant whether it's you know, you've got a 416, a 308 or 223 as well. I think the yeah, the uh, the 22 is a great caliber to get your eye in now. Last one is from luke mckinley. Mckinley, mckinley, what are your thoughts on anti-hunters and the best way to approach when asked example, uh, avoid them and give them no comments, or try and explain what we do and why we do it, or try and show them the benefits if it's done properly. What are your thoughts on that and have you had any run-ins?
Speaker 2:No, we don't have people wading in water. I've never seen an anti-waterfowler, anti-gun person up here in the Northern Territory so I really haven't had to deal with it. To deal with it on the on the page a few times, but really not that much at all. So to explain it to them, I don't think you're going to change their mind like I really don't. You know you better off. They'll feed off you and just criticize you're not off. They'll feed off you and just you're not going to change their minds, you know you. Just I like staying in my own lane. You know that's their choice, it's my choice, it's better. Yeah, I don't try and change people's minds, you know.
Speaker 1:It's what it is. You know what about through food? Have you introduced many people to game meats through Waterfowl? Or, you know, through venison?
Speaker 2:My family, like my wife's family, have always been hunters. Like I was saying for New Zealand, my kids have always grown up hunting up here in the Northern Territory. I don't really know people who don't hunt or don't go fishing, or I'm just trying to think, well, I don't know them very well, anyway, maybe you don't want to don't go fishing. Or just trying to think, well, I don't know them very well anyway, maybe you don't want to be friends with them. No, that's a good point. No, no, no, I didn't come into that realm.
Speaker 1:You know, I have a slightly different take on it. I think it's our job as ambassadors for the sport to understand what we do and be able to vocalise what we do confidently. And you can obviously do that. Understand what we do and be able to vocalize what we do confidently and you can obviously do that. I want to say I probably nearly go out of my way to create the conversation, sometimes on purpose, because I like I don't want to call it confrontation, but I like educational discussion from both sides.
Speaker 1:Some of my best discussions about hunting have been with anti-hunters and what irks them the most is when I inquire about their beliefs and why. Because they're happy to talk about mine and why mine are wrong. But I just want to know, and there's one in particular I think about, and I mean he's a politician in the anti-hunting side of it and he refused to come on air. But we had a phone call and and I asked him I was like what, at what point in your life did you decide that every animal is amazing and you must save every animal in the world? And he had a. You know he said I was six and my dog got run over by a car and it was traumatic and we tried to save it and it was nearly cut in half and we didn't. And at that point then I knew that you know, I was going to value every animal's life and I was like, okay, well, now I understand where you're coming from. I can then tailor my conversation to that. And he really didn't know what to talk about after that.
Speaker 2:But I, I've done it. Yeah, it's interesting. I've done a few interviews on ABC radio which can be dangerous, as you can imagine, around due season and stuff, and the commentator did drop one on me one time like oh, how do you feel when you shoot this majestic animal?
Speaker 2:And I'm like well, here we go and I said, look, I respect the bird, I go out and collect it. I sit around the table with my whole family and talk about that bird and how we hunted it and we respect it. Who does that with a chicken they buy from the local supermarket? That's about all the argument I've got.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no one does. Everyone just eats their $10 chicken.
Speaker 2:That's it.
Speaker 1:We know where it comes from.
Speaker 2:We know where it comes from.
Speaker 1:Ken, you know where it comes from I'll we'll tidy up these three questions and then I want to ask you one more before we sort of head off. But I see you had three questions there. First year of hunting, how do you approach anti-hunters? And caliber and gun choice you have to pick one person out of that. Or one question that you thought was that you enjoyed, um, and then they, they win a hat no, I enjoyed the, the first one um first years first years.
Speaker 2:You know, because it's important there, like those first years are important, that you either. You know you start a lifetime, a lifetime of journey, um experiences, and you know yeah it's amazing. You would have been on a few good journeys in your life.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I've had some fun. Well, that question came from Ian Kelly. So, Ian, you win a hat. I'll reach out to you and we'll organise to send that over to you I don't know if everyone can see. We had matching hats on. I jumped on and Dave was in his NT hat, so I went and got mine. We're not going to say what it says, but it's just a great advertising slogan. One other thing on the geese thing can you get them taxidermied? Can you get them mounted?
Speaker 2:No, you can't no. That bugs me it's not within the permit. That's a sad bug. They're an ugly-looking bird anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you're Americans that you were saying that travel the world just to shoot. You know that's important to them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because they will have it in their trophy room as an Australian magpie goose. No, it's outside your tournament. You can't do it.
Speaker 1:That's silly, I don't understand that because once it's dead, it's dead. I have similar opinions with the trophy import bans. You can go to Africa and shoot an elephant, a lion, a leopard, but you can't bring it back. It's already dead, it's done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know what the reasoning is behind it. It's got to do with bartering. I don't know. It's an unusual subject. You can't do it.
Speaker 1:Is there anything else you want to cover off mate? Are you all talked?
Speaker 2:out.
Speaker 1:I know you can talk for hours on this stuff.
Speaker 2:No, it's good. I thought we were only halfway there, mate. I'm talking about Magpie Geese. I reckon we've probably covered half Half of that Magpie Geese.
Speaker 1:Well, let's do a wrap-up at the end of the season the season Sounds good.
Speaker 2:Sounds good to me. The season's about to start next Wednesday.
Speaker 1:What's the date on?
Speaker 2:that 25th 25th sorry. On the 25th. It's a great time of year in the Northern Territory. Like I said, it's a great time for Darwin and its people. Yeah, and it's a great cultural event magpie goose hunting season in the Northern Territory. So that's what.
Speaker 1:I can't wait for, and if people want to get in touch with you and jump on the page, what is it again and how do they find it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, just jump on. Darwin Goose Hunters Hunters with a Z. It's the most popular goose hunting page in the world. Magpie goose hunting page in the world it's the only one that also makes it the worst as well at the same time. But if you Google magpie goose in Northern Territory, it'll come up, just you know. Message me if you're coming up from down south. I'm happy to show people around. I'm out hunting as well. I'm more than happy to tag along with good information on my page.
Speaker 1:So yeah, jump on, have a look it's full of great information and I really like that about it. You're very open about it and obviously you keep things up your sleeve, but what you are giving away is, you know, valuable information. I've learned a lot and I know nothing about it. So I uh, I intend to, uh I have some clients book for next year. I'm just trying to the dates don't line up, but I'll see what we can organise and try and get some boys from down here to come up and yeah, come on, it's easy, mate.
Speaker 2:You know the hunting reserves are 40 minutes out of Darwin, nothing.
Speaker 1:So you just stay in a hotel in Darwin and breast all your ducks in the main street.
Speaker 2:That's it. No worries, don't worry about that. It's probably happened before, yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't doubt it, I've eaten a where was I? I was in Seattle staying at a hostel on one of my journeys in between and I went and bought a mud crab big Dungeness crab, sorry from the market and this thing was amazing, delicious and huge. And I'm sitting in the hostel smashing this cooked crab and there's a guy in there didn't speak much english, just pointing at the sign on the door that says no food, no food and I'm there like covered in crab and the room smells like crab.
Speaker 1:But uh, I've done worse things in hotels it's better to ask for forgiveness and permission why didn't it? You know? I just say, mate, no english, no english thanks for joining me, mate it's been a pleasure. I've enjoyed learning. I hope everyone has to jump on the page and say hello to Dave and look forward to catching up with you in the future. We need to talk about that fallow hunt yeah, it sounds good.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate your time today.
Speaker 1:It's been fun it has been well. Everyone bye for now and we'll talk soon.