Gloria Ginsberg on Embracing the Unknown

Can you find comfort in the unknown? Tune in to this inspiring episode of Intuitive Choices as we host the fearless Gloria Ginsberg, who exemplifies living life on her own terms. Gloria bravely opens up about her life's journey, from an introspective childhood to her philosophical outlook which has steered her towards a peaceful acceptance of life's uncertainties. Her candid recollections of a challenging past, marked by surviving incest and learning to advocate for herself, are truly empowering.

As we delve into Gloria's world, we explore the transformative power of setting personal boundaries. She provides a fresh perspective on maintaining independence within a long-lasting marriage and the significant role of interdependence in her life. Gloria's story is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit even in the face of adversity. Her wisdom and experiences offer valuable life lessons and inspiring insights into facing the unknown with confidence and peace. Listen in as Gloria Ginsberg masterfully paints a picture of an intuitive life lived boldly.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:05

Hey everybody, I'm Kimberly Dobbs.

Speaker 3 0:06

And I'm Jacob Miller.

Speaker 1 0:07

And we'd like to welcome you to another episode of Intuitive Choices.

Speaker 3 0:10

Kim and I are mental health therapists working in Philadelphia.

Speaker 1 0:13

But wait, jacob, that's not all we are. I mean, I'm blind and you're an Orthodox too.

Speaker 3 0:18

Yes, kim, that's correct. That's why this podcast is interesting.

Speaker 1 0:20

But what really makes this podcast interesting is that each week we invite a guest to speak about how their own intuitive choices have led them to live a more meaningful life.

Speaker 3 0:29

We hope that this conversation encourages you to make meaningful choices in your own life.

Speaker 1 0:33

Alright, off we go.

Speaker 3 0:35

Let's do it. Hey, everyone just wanted to let you know that today's episode covers a brief discussion of recovering from a sexual assault and therefore may not be appropriate for all listeners. And, without further ado, please enjoy the episode.

Speaker 1 0:53

I'm Kimberly Dobbs.

Speaker 3 0:54

And I'm Jacob Miller.

Speaker 1 0:55

And we'd like to welcome you to Intuitive Choices. And today we are so honored and privileged to welcome our guest, a woman by a woman by the name of Gloria Ginsburg. She's joining us today. Kind of serendipitously, I was having a conversation with a dear friend of mine who happens to be Gloria's granddaughter, and this, this particular person's name is Antonia, and while Antonia and I were speaking, we were on FaceTime and Gloria and Antonia says to me oh Kim, let me introduce you to my grandmother. Her name's Gloria, and before I knew it, I was on a FaceTime call with this, with this amazing woman, and she was telling me that she was telling me that she had recently moved from Southern California to Northern California. And then, gloria, you said something that struck me. I'm not sure if you remember what it was that you said that struck me, but I'm going to just ask you do you remember what you said to me about why you moved to Northern California?

Speaker 4 2:01

Oh, why I moved to be well, I don't know if I remember it you got to remind me but at one of the reasons is to be near my daughter.

Speaker 1 2:11

That's right, and and and, gloria, you said to me. You said, well, I'll tell you. And you said it's so matter of fact. You said I came here to die. That's what you said to me.

Speaker 4 2:22

Yes, I did say that.

Speaker 1 2:24

You did, and when you said that to me, I it really, it really like hit a chord, a positive one, and I wasn't able to stop thinking about that statement or you for several days following our conversation and I thought there was something about what you, how you, how you said those words to me that felt to me so peaceful, and I thought I want to hear more about Gloria, more about how she was able to say something like that was such, seemingly with such confidence and peace and acceptance, and therefore started the ball rolling and inviting you on to talk with Jacob and I about you and about this process of coming to Northern California and, in your words, to die.

Speaker 1 3:25

So I guess we'll start with the first question is how did you, how do you think you were able to say that with such confidence? Tell me, tell us a little more.

Speaker 4 3:36

When I think about it. When I was a little girl, I thought about dying I. That's not new to me, it's. It's stayed in the back of my head my whole life. So death is part of living and was part of me, and that's my pussy cat talk. So it I felt that it came casual enough to be able to say that.

Speaker 3 4:11

So at the same time, gloria it definitely makes sense. But in our experience or I will maybe I won't speak for Kim in my experience it's not so common to meet anyone, let alone a little girl, who's already like contemplating, you know, the last stages of life in a way that allows them to hit those stages of life with as much matter of factness and confidence as you have. So would it be?

Speaker 3 4:39

possible to tell us a little bit more about, maybe, if you're comfortable, what was going on as a little girl or what's going on now.

Speaker 4 4:48

When I was a little girl, I was always kind of philosophical. I came from a defunct, defunctional home, so I was always looking for that spirituality that kept me in a, a place that I felt comfortable with. And when I wouldn't get the answers and a lot of times I didn't I say there's always tomorrow. Wow, that's really beautiful yeah, as a little girl, I knew I wasn't going to die, but as an old lady, haha. So it's still the same thought as a child, only in a decrepit body.

Speaker 1 5:48

And so there's this concept right of dying that you, that you speak of as a woman now, as you speak of it as a little girl, right, this, this concept of?

Speaker 4 6:00

dying.

Speaker 1 6:01

Yeah, did. Did you have like in reflection, do you feel like you had as much peace around this idea of of death as a little girl as you do now at 88?

Speaker 4 6:19

No, because I don't know what's going to happen. I don't have peace at knowing what's going. I don't know. So the I don't know is part of who I am my whole life. Hmm.

Speaker 1 6:35

Can you so say more about that, the I don't know Right?

Speaker 4 6:41

So well, I'm trying to say the I don't know is part of my philosophy, you know, and you know I've always envied not jealous, but envied people who did know, because there are so many religious people in the world and I wish I had the answer the way they do the confidence in the answer the way that they do? Exactly.

Speaker 3 7:11

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 7:11

Exactly, yeah, yeah, exactly. I always think maybe they know more than me, but when I think about it, I know that they don't know more than me. They're only humans.

Speaker 1 7:28

Yeah, so it's really. What we're talking about is more of a comfortability with this idea of not knowing, because nobody really knows.

Speaker 4 7:38

That makes me feel better, okay, good.

Speaker 1 7:43

Yeah, that makes me feel better, then I shouldn't quit my day job.

Speaker 4 7:47

No, no, don't quit your day job, but I don't know about your night job. What are?

Speaker 1 7:54

you doing this is my night job. Go ahead and see this podcast. So, jacob, why don't you ask one of the questions and we can delete?

Speaker 3 8:04

this little chat, sure thing. Okay, yeah, gloria, before I ask my question, I just say I really am so grateful for speaking. I'm just like I really appreciate the energy that you bring into our conversation.

Speaker 4 8:19

Thank you, honey, I remember what you said.

Speaker 3 8:24

Thank you. So you know, it just so happens. I myself, like, was a philosophy major when I was in college. I shifted to being a therapist later on in life, and so I'm like doing my best to not go down the philosophy route with you right now.

Speaker 1 8:36

You're doing great.

Speaker 3 8:37

Thank you. You know when I think about what it sounds like is you have a. You've had a lifetime of developing your own personal philosophy of life, of what it doesn't mean to be.

Speaker 4 8:47

Gloria, that is true. That is true. I feel that.

Speaker 3 8:54

What were some of the can you? Can you speak to some of the things that happened in your life that allowed you to develop that philosophy?

Speaker 4 9:02

Well, yes, I can, if it's acceptable, on the radio or whatever you call this.

Speaker 1 9:09

This is a public forum, so it's up to you on how much you would like to share to the general public.

Speaker 4 9:18

It's been my goal for a number of years now to share that I was a incest victim, but now I'm an incest survivor.

Speaker 3 9:34

Those words really. I mean, they just hit me, but they would hit anyone who would hear them. So I can't even imagine what it takes to reach the level of being a survivor. How can you even, how did you even begin that process, and at what stage did you realize that you had transcended into the state of being a survivor?

Speaker 1 9:58

You're speaking from a victim to survivor right.

Speaker 4 10:00

Right, I did have physical symptoms that told me that I can't live like that, and it made me come out of the closet. I couldn't close my eyes, literally.

Speaker 1 10:19

You mean literally? Yes, okay.

Speaker 4 10:23

What's the difference between literally and figuratively?

Speaker 1 10:27

Literally is, you actually were not able to close your eyes at any point.

Speaker 4 10:35

Okay, that's what I mean. Wow, that's when I realized I can't. I was married, I had just gotten married. And what happens if my husband finds out about it? I mean, how would I explain it? Because being in the closet also means you've got a heavy duty secret. Yeah, and that was a secret from my husband as well. Right, so I ended up you'll be proud of this I ended up in a therapist's office. Oh yeah, my husband went to USC and he was going to school there to get his PhD. University of Southern California. Yeah, okay. And while we were there, I told him I'm going to go to a therapist and he shouldn't ask me why.

Speaker 3 11:42

Okay, he respected that boundary.

Speaker 4 11:47

He did. He did accept that, and what?

Speaker 1 11:51

bravery that took, especially because we also have to put ourselves back at that time. I was just going to ask do you mind letting us know, like around, what year it was?

Speaker 3 12:00

when you went.

Speaker 4 12:05

I went to the school therapist.

Speaker 1 12:08

So you were, how old roughly I was.

Speaker 4 12:12

I just got married, so I was 19.

Speaker 1 12:16

So at 19 years old it was probably around 19,. You know, 49 or 1950. No, no, no 1955. 1955. So we're talking in the mid 1950s. This gal, very brave and courageous brave and courageously decided okay, these are these physical symptoms I'm experiencing as the result of this trauma, and decided I need to work this out. I'm going to go to a therapist. And then you told your husband and don't ask me about it, I'm just going to go do this thing. That's great. Very very ahead of your time, jacob, wouldn't you say?

Speaker 3 12:57

I certainly would yeah.

Speaker 4 13:00

Well, the unbelievable miracle for me was when I walked to the door. I knew I had to do that. I knew I had to say I am an incest victim. I just knew it. Would we call that something like a gut feeling and we like, on that one hour show, call it an intuitive moment, but to make a little light of it, I would call it an eye feeling rather than a gut feeling. Okay, that's fine.

Speaker 3 13:37

But you knew that there was some sort. There was the. You hoped that there would be a relief from whatever was going on with your eyes by speaking this out to the professional.

Speaker 4 13:45

I just wanted to close my eyes. Yeah, yes, and I walked in there and I told her that, and I swear to you, I could close my eyes from there on in, wow.

Speaker 1 13:59

Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 4 14:01

It was like somebody up there was leading me to that. Not me, but somebody up there.

Speaker 1 14:09

The phrase I like to use is like something bigger than we are Right, something like inexplicable that we can't. Yeah, exactly that just guided me toward that.

Speaker 4 14:19

Yeah, and since that time I have experienced little miracles. I call them little miracles because then that's something to be such an eye opener about, and they can always be put in coincidence, right. Right, I don't know.

Speaker 3 14:38

I don't know if there's such a thing as a little miracle. At the end of the day, I think any miracle is a big miracle.

Speaker 4 14:43

Yeah, there's magnitude to every miracle, yeah, but you know, I believe that we have little miracles happening to us every minute, but we don't recognize it because we don't have time to how do you make time?

Speaker 1 15:01

How did you make time? How did you, as Gloria, make time to recognize these miracles?

Speaker 4 15:08

It's called awareness, and because of awareness I went to therapy. Most of my life have gone through therapy not now and not for a long time, but most of my time yet and it's helped me a great deal.

Speaker 1 15:33

So I want to ask you, because what we didn't say was that you were recently diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, right, right, and we're talking stage four, okay, Right Stage four.

Speaker 3 15:47

you say with a chuckle.

Speaker 1 15:48

Yeah, interesting Right, tell us why you're laughing.

Speaker 4 15:53

It's a. To me it doesn't matter. I don't, because if I had stage one I couldn't fix it. Okay.

Speaker 3 16:06

Again, you're just displaying the level of acceptance you have over both what life has given you, and then there's a level of acceptance that you have in your own ability to make the most of it.

Speaker 4 16:20

Oh yeah, I guess that's that's true, to make the most of it. Every day I wake up, oh yeah, oh yeah, I yes, and you know it's a wonderful feeling. I don't even try. What's a wonderful feeling Right there.

Speaker 1 16:40

Can you?

Speaker 4 16:40

name it. What do you?

Speaker 1 16:41

say it. What is, what does that look like for you? What do I mean? It's when you say most of it's there, that makes you feel like laughter, smiling, grateful, and yeah, that's a very personal thing.

Speaker 3 17:04

Yeah, Gloria, I think most people who are far from from sexual trauma, who are far from from an incest trauma, they would say to themselves like I can't imagine, like if I would ever be able to get past that. Or you know people, you know we're social people, we see people go through things and we say I would never be able to get, to get through that. How were you able to not only make the decision to go into therapy, but to make the decision to really become I'm going to circle back to it but to become this go from victim to survivor? Like what stages along the way?

Speaker 4 17:46

what types of mind experiences that you have to go through. There is no. For me there wasn't any stages, it just happened. Of course, I could close my eyes.

Speaker 3 18:01

Closing your eyes itself was the relief that that allowed you to move from victim into survivor.

Speaker 4 18:07

Yes, because then I felt normal. To me, survivor means you personally feel normal, even though whatever happened to you doesn't matter, but you feel normal From there on in. I had to work very hard on learning what boundaries are, so that was my whole basic of life, even with my kids to know boundaries.

Speaker 1 18:36

Can you give us an example? What do you mean by that?

Speaker 4 18:40

Okay, let me blow my nose first.

Speaker 1 18:42

Sure, you got it Okay.

Speaker 4 18:48

What do I mean by a boundary? Like with your daughters, you said, for example yeah, especially my daughters, because I wanted them to be normal. So I guess that's a funny word, but I guess that's so.

Speaker 3 19:07

So you had to go through your own growth in order to maximize the lives of your children and grandchildren, great grandchildren.

Speaker 4 19:18

Say that again.

Speaker 3 19:20

It sounds like you had a drive to make yourself as well as possible for the sake of your children and grandchildren and great grandchildren.

Speaker 4 19:29

Yes, and also anyone who was a girl or a woman, whatever that. They stand on their own two feet. That's very important to me. Do you feel like?

Speaker 1 19:45

you modeled that for your daughters as they were growing up, did I feel, do you?

Speaker 4 19:52

feel like you modeled.

Speaker 3 19:53

Maybe. In what ways did you model it? Oh?

Speaker 4 19:55

I mean, you know what I'm really positive about my modeling behavior? I never had that. I had my mother, who was a very passive woman, very tied to her mother, lived with her mother and fought like there's no tomorrow. Yeah, and never had the chance to get the wisdom that I have. I know that because, you know, I live with my mother and she died young. She died at 47. That was very sad, because I feel sad about that, but I also figure that I like to think that it was fixed. The it was fixed.

Speaker 4 20:52

I like to think that maybe through me, maybe that's the ancestry that we passed on and we, that's the fact we do.

Speaker 1 21:03

So by fixing you mean repaired right, repaired, yeah, okay.

Speaker 4 21:07

Right, yes, so I feel as if that I appreciate that I was more repaired than my mother. Wow, yeah.

Speaker 1 21:18

And Gloria. We have that in common. My mother, too, died when she was 47 years old.

Speaker 4 21:24

And how old are you now? I am 40. Okay, you've got seven years before. You have no one to emulate.

Speaker 1 21:35

No, you know, no one's ever said that to me in that way before. That's really interesting, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 21:43

That's gonna be hard, but it's very freeing.

Speaker 3 21:47

Hard, but freeing Gloria, that is such a beautiful concept. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My jaw literally dropped, you know, because A lot of things are coming together for me right now, but it seems like the experience of, of knowing that after your mother's passing, you had no one left to emulate that. Is it possible that that's supercharged you to make sure you taught as much as you could to your family so that when yes, my good.

Speaker 4 22:21

My mother was very passive with her family, and I didn't want to be, so I became a very aggressive person, person.

Speaker 3 22:32

What, what, in what ways that aggression serve you and in what ways do you think it held you back a little oh?

Speaker 4 22:40

It held me back a lot and Many ways people can't handle, don't necessarily handled my Big mouth, okay, yeah, my pushyness, mm-hmm, but I'm I'm pleased with it because that's part of learning boundaries.

Speaker 1 23:09

And and always advocating for yourself yeah, okay. So when when we're talking boundaries a big part of boundaries for you, gloria, was learning how to and similarly to that example of saying to your, to your husband, teddy, hey, I'm gonna therapy and we're gonna talk about why, just gonna go to therapy, is this advocating for yourself right.

Speaker 4 23:31

That's true. And the first thing you know another Interesting thing the first thing I ever felt advocating for myself was a bath.

Speaker 1 23:41

Oh, like taking a bath and a bathtub.

Speaker 4 23:46

Yes, and it belonged to nobody and I didn't have to share it and I all of the above. Is that interesting? Because when I cooked or cleaned or even bought a clothes or whatever, I always felt that was part of the family.

Speaker 3 24:03

Wow when was that? When we like? Was it a specific like moment when, when you took a specific bath or just your whole life, you felt like the bath was for you?

Speaker 4 24:13

When? When was it? Certainly was after I couldn't close my eyes, okay, but you know it's very hard for me to keep things in perspective. Concerning my therapy, because, like I said, I've been doing it when I was 19 up until my guess is See, because when I came out of the closet I was about 50.

Speaker 1 24:44

That's a long time that process, though. You mean five zero. I just want to make sure that everybody hears that correctly five zero, not one five right, like you were.

Speaker 4 24:56

No, I was five, oh, and my father was still alive and, according to therapy, you gotta face your, your scaringness or whatever. And so I did, and, and that was really the beginning of wasn't the beginning of my illness, but I Felt better than yeah, I, and I felt I felt better for my father, who also was keeping it a secret.

Speaker 3 25:31

Yeah you felt better for your father after confronting him yes, because he owned it a.

Speaker 4 25:40

Lot of ownership okay, yes, he owned it. He apologized, and he even more so. When I knew about his history, of course I wasn't interested in his history all those years, but then I was. I Could see the sadness because he was a victim as well by his brother.

Speaker 1 26:11

Do you feel, and maybe this is a, this is you know, maybe we I don't know how, if we'll keep this question or not, but it's interesting that you, you've moved, almost like this cosmic shift in you, from this idea of I am a, you know, a victim of incest to I am a survivor of sexual trauma. And You're saying about your father. Right and you just referred to him as a victim. Do you do you feel like he ever moved into survivor hood versus?

Speaker 4 26:49

You know that's such a good question and I've never asked that to myself, but I'm gonna try to answer it. When I realized that my father also suffered, I, I Empowered him and he felt better and you felt it from him. I did.

Speaker 1 27:14

Yeah, I did it's almost something that he might not have even had to have said explicitly. It was just something like you felt the shift from him.

Speaker 4 27:23

Yes, I did. From the anger to the acceptance yes, I did. That's incredible.

Speaker 3 27:30

To go from. You know you mentioning how, after your mother passed, there's no one left to emulate and to become a model for your own father as well. It's just, it's a testament. You're you're completely blown away by what a force for good you are in this world.

Speaker 1 27:47

Yeah.

Speaker 4 27:48

And yeah, thank you for being blown away, but come back soon.

Speaker 1 27:54

So, too, I want to piggyback on that right, which makes me think of this idea of like our legacy right, and yes, you know, yeah, yeah. What do you, what do you feel you'd like your legacy to be For everybody, for your own family, for people listening who have never met you but have had or having the privilege to like, acquaint themselves with you through our podcast? What do you want your legacy to be?

Speaker 4 28:27

It's an interesting question too, and I don't want to go into the you know, the all the sayings that go with it, but I want my family to be happy, whatever that means to own their own lifestyle and to be proud of it. Those are the things I want for my family. Yes. And of course we all want good health and good wealth.

Speaker 3 29:03

Yeah that's really true.

Speaker 1 29:05

Preach, preach on.

Speaker 4 29:07

Yeah, but more important to me is to enjoy your life, even in your misery, because if you don't enjoy your life, you're going to take it away.

Speaker 3 29:21

How do you do that? How do you find a way to enjoy your life in your misery? Yeah.

Speaker 1 29:28

Make fun of it. I think that's your legacy girl. That's what you're modeling. That's what you've modeled in your 88 years and I, we didn't give you we didn't do the introduction yet, but the you went to clown college right as a quick aside. I did, yeah, so I find that really interesting.

Speaker 4 29:50

Well, that's when my husband died. I needed something to make me smile, true, so making fun of you. I went to clown college and I did that for about a year and then I stopped doing it. Like everything else, I do things for nine months. It's like giving birth.

Speaker 3 30:17

And then you have enough, just like a woman of nine months who has enough. So, gloria, everyone on this call, to my knowledge, we're all Jewish, we're all part of the Jewish family and I didn't know that. Yeah, and something that, like you, often hear people say to one another and you know, after someone passes, is about a love that we say is may the memory be a blessing. And exactly, and as you're reaching this stage of life and you're facing it head on, what experiences in your life do you hope will be blessings to your friends and family?

Speaker 4 31:00

Open this to listen to people and really hear what they say. A process of giving, like I really, now that you told me, talk about the world, talk about the world. I did not know I was on a Jewish program.

Speaker 3 31:23

It's not a Jewish program, but we all happen to be Jewish.

Speaker 1 31:26

We all just happen to be Jewish.

Speaker 4 31:28

That's the meaning of the Jewish program. It's a true thing Gloria.

Speaker 3 31:32

So, take it wherever you'd like.

Speaker 4 31:35

Okay and not pro-program. It's a plan on words.

Speaker 3 31:44

Yeah, it's a program, not a pogrom.

Speaker 4 31:50

I always felt I was Jewish. I never felt that I had all my years that I had to prove I was Jewish and many people did not accept me because I don't follow the culture. Well, I am cultured because of my accent, but okay.

Speaker 1 32:18

But I don't follow the rules during my life, but it doesn't sound like you're following.

Speaker 3 32:27

It doesn't sound like you follow Jewish rules, American rules, societal rules. You do your own thing.

Speaker 4 32:35

Yes, you're so right. Yeah, but it's good that some of these rules are made lower, because I need to be held down like everybody else.

Speaker 3 32:47

Those boundaries.

Speaker 4 32:48

Yeah, exactly, those are my best, so your husband, theodore.

Speaker 1 32:56

You called him. I believe you called him, teddy, right? He passed away a few years ago. Yeah. And in our conversation a few days ago that I was referring to, you had mentioned that he was did not have a. He just had a very different view about his own end stage of life than you do.

Speaker 1 33:23

And unfortunately, yeah, so what was that like to be his, to be his partner while he was going through that, while, all the while, from the inside of you, you, you know you you had a very different feeling about dying and generally, the thing I got me through was my attitude of being selfish and I'm sorry, and I still wouldn't do anything different, but I'm sorry, I couldn't be there for him Even, you know, during his four months of agony. I call it what? Why do you say you were selfish? What does that mean?

Speaker 4 34:11

I needed my space. I had to get away from this sickly man I. I needed to make myself feel okay. So I went out a lot and I learned a lot. One of the things I learned while Ted was dying was independence. Wow, yeah, and so I took on all the things that Ted did, wow.

Speaker 3 34:47

Out of necessity.

Speaker 4 34:49

Out of yes, out of out of necessity and wanting it.

Speaker 3 34:54

Yeah Well, I think that's one of the best ways to take on something that's necessary is to also want it, that's true.

Speaker 4 35:01

That's true, but and never get it, because I, if I had been an independent person, I would have divorced. What do you mean by that? I don't understand that. Kim definitely understood what you meant, but I don't understand what you mean. I do Well maybe you don't understand it because you're a man, I would love to learn, if possible.

Speaker 3 35:23

If you could tell me.

Speaker 4 35:24

Most wives are dependent rather than independent those that become independent are the ones who choose divorce. Those that remain dependent. Stay because it's the godly thing to do. Stay because they set those boundaries, or maybe they have independence within the marriage. You're not being told what to do. So that's to me that, I guess, one of the differences. Can you depend on independence? Can you be, can you be?

Speaker 3 36:07

independent and stay married? Yes, but I don't understand it, because now?

Speaker 4 36:12

I'm not independent. There are two people standing there, so that, to me, is a compromise. Can I see that people can be independent and be married, no, but I can see people interdependent Beautiful yeah, so for context.

Speaker 1 36:40

I think that's a good point, so for context, gloria, you were married for over 50 years. We're talking about a time period. We're talking the 1950s and 60s and 70s, all the way to now, all the way to when, when Teddy passed away, and you are referring to a dynamic in which you were very dependent upon your husband for for many different things.

Speaker 1 37:15

I you know Jacob says Kim can relate, I can right I had grown very dependent for you know, as I was going blind and and, and I think that of course I do believe that that two people can be married and be interdependent, which I think is a beautiful way to put it.

Speaker 1 37:35

But what I think, is so extraordinary about what you're saying is that yet again in your life well, maybe we'll call it a little miracle, maybe not but this moment in life where you had enough self awareness to go, I am. I am dependent on this person. Here is this life experience that is happening in front of me, which was your your husband was dying and all of a sudden, you started to really recognize what it feels like to be in a situation where you had to depend on yourself, truly right.

Speaker 4 38:13

Part of it is, if you think about it, it's sleeping alone. That's a very dependent place to be, when you've always slept with someone?

Speaker 3 38:24

Yeah, my, my grandparents. They've married 70 years. I went, my grandfather passed away and one of the hardest things for my grandmother after my grandfather passed, when I mean they were in their 90s. But she said she, she lost her hot water bottle.

Speaker 1 38:45

Which yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 38:46

She just really missed sleeping next to my grandfather.

Speaker 4 38:51

I would have asked her do you like hot water bottle?

Speaker 3 39:00

You know I don't want to go too far in a tangent, but my grandmother's memory started to fade when she, when she got older, and she used to hold my grandfather's hand and tell people you know, we've never had a fight and my grandfather would laugh and laugh.

Speaker 4 39:20

Yeah, I guess you do. Yeah. And I, I, you know that dependency I never questioned, I never asked. Now to this day, and I'm aware that I can't sleep with my grandkids, who want to sleep with me, uh-huh.

Speaker 1 39:41

And why do you think?

Speaker 4 39:42

that is. I think that comes from my dependency my whole life sleeping with someone.

Speaker 1 39:51

It's almost like this, this way, almost, it almost feels like the bathtub thing, where this is like. This is my bed, this is my bath, this belongs to me and yeah, and it's this this this this tangible way of being like this is mine. This belongs to me, right.

Speaker 4 40:12

Yeah, and Ted would make me laugh because he'd go around saying mine, mine, mine. He's the laugh that's happening, you mean in saying that he was.

Speaker 3 40:25

You think he was like mocking you a little bit, or what? How do you? Think. Like teasing you.

Speaker 4 40:29

Yes, I think he was mocking me and making it humorous. Yeah. Right. He was like, instead of being serious this is one of the things I loved about him and then he took things even more serious than I did. So you know it was a catch. Catch can.

Speaker 3 40:51

How did you meet your husband?

Speaker 4 40:54

A blind date, oh my gosh. Well, I gotta tell you the story there because it shows my personality. Okay. Okay, my girlfriend set up a blind date. It was six of us and we all pushed the fit in this car and I gotta know this is the 52. So the cars are generally large enough and you can sit on somebody's lap. Everything changed when they made that rule that you can't do that.

Speaker 1 41:31

You know the, you know the law to wear a seatbelt, those kinds of things.

Speaker 4 41:35

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So anyhow, I'm waiting for my date to come up. The come up the stairs and his name was Al and he was very cute, but he was very short. How tall are you?

Speaker 1 41:55

Yeah, how tall are you? How tall are you, Gloria?

Speaker 4 41:59

10 or now. Then I was five two.

Speaker 1 42:05

Oh, and he was considered short. Okay, I got you, keep going.

Speaker 4 42:10

Oh, yeah, I could have. Yeah, he was considered short, so I was wearing high heels. I mean six inch high heels. They were hard. I was so pissed off and he walked out. I threw my heels out and put on my loafers. Okay, so I we got downstairs and there was this tall, in my eyes lanky, pimple-faced guy who looked harmless. So I said hello, he was with another girl and you know what he did. When I was getting in the car, he pushed Al away and he said to me you can sit on my lap. Wow, that was the end of Al. Wow, so then just a fist crack, but yeah.

Speaker 1 43:25

Wow, that's a great story, gloria. I'm just going to do a time check with Jacob. I think we should start to wrap up.

Speaker 3 43:32

It's somewhere a little less than 45 minutes, but in that ballpark and I think we should ask our closing question. So Gloria, it has been such an unbelievable pleasure speaking with you.

Speaker 1 43:45

Yeah, I'm so honored.

Speaker 3 43:47

And thank you, that's wonderful. Oh no, it's really, it's been such a, such a joy that that, no, we get to speak with you, and so is there anything that we haven't asked you that you would like to speak about?

Speaker 4 44:02

I'm so proud of being of living in the here and now. So what you ask is something in the past that I missed or needed, and, as far as I'm concerned, I don't have a future. Yeah. So there is nothing in the here and now that I can think of.

Speaker 1 44:29

Which says to me that right here and right now, you and correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't want to speak for your feelings that you are content in your life right now.

Speaker 4 44:46

I think you're right.

Speaker 1 44:48

Okay, that resonates with you, that you, that you're just, you're feeling content.

Speaker 4 44:54

I think you're right and I'm pleased with that.

Speaker 1 45:00

Yeah, Well, I think that you are I really are incredibly inspiring. Because, I'm going to explain to you because, you know, the death for all of us is really just a concept, and for the majority of us it's incredibly scary. And. I think that just through this conversation there are things that you have said that I know for myself, can only speak for myself, that I don't know. It just makes me feel a little bit more at peace with this, with the concept for me that I feel scary yeah.

Speaker 4 45:40

I feel really good with you, you're welcome and I finally get a chance to say I'm Jewish.

Speaker 1 45:48

Yes, loud and proud sister. Loud and proud, yes.

Speaker 4 45:53

Yeah, and I thank you for giving me the opportunity to say it. It adds to my contentment. That's really wonderful, that's beautiful.

Speaker 1 46:03

Now we're just going to wrap up, but one thing that we want to know is you know if there is a charity that you feel really particularly connected with that you'd like maybe our listeners. Sometimes they offer you know they'll go in and they'll make donations, things like that. We would love to give you an opportunity to share that with our audience.

Speaker 4 46:25

I don't know how to say it ICLU, iclu, what's that? Yeah, what? The lawyers that come in and the ACLU.

Speaker 1 46:40

Yeah, I think it's the ACLU.

Speaker 3 46:42

The ACLU, the American Civil Liberties Union.

Speaker 1 46:45

Yes, Okay, so we will put that in our show notes, a link to that. So that if any of our listeners would like to make a donation to that charity, they can, or that organization.

Speaker 4 46:59

Yeah, well, they can make a donation to the Catholic charity, to anything they want.

Speaker 1 47:07

I'm in glory of Good for you.

Speaker 3 47:10

You just like when people give.

Speaker 1 47:11

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 47:13

That's a great message.

Speaker 3 47:14

Yeah, and thank you, sure thing, and thank you, and I don't know if this gives you anything, but when people set boundaries, we so often feel selfish and what I heard and you talking about the experience of you know like this is my bed and this is my tub and my back.

Speaker 1 47:35

And the last four months of Teddy's life being like I was selfish because I set a boundary.

Speaker 3 47:42

I just wish that people were able to know when they set a boundary for themselves for the sake of maintaining their well-being, so they can continue to take care of themselves and the people around them. I don't think that's selfish. I think that's self-full. These are ways people need to fill themselves up.

Speaker 4 48:01

Well, but I believe also in make it. No, fake it till you. Make it, yeah Well, you made it, you made it.

Speaker 1 48:12

You you, girl you made it, my dear, you made it. It could be all a fake. Not at all.

Speaker 3 48:21

You're as real as they come, Gloria.

Speaker 1 48:23

Yeah, yeah, all right, I'm still crying, okay. Well, we really appreciate you, we really appreciate this conversation and we are going to call it a wrap. So thank you Good.

Speaker 4 48:35

Now we will go to eat Enjoy.

Speaker 3 48:38

Enjoy, I have a wonderful day.

Speaker 4 48:40

Thank you.

Speaker 1 48:41

Okay.

Speaker 3 48:41

Bye-bye.

Speaker 4 48:43

Bye-bye.

Speaker 3 48:46

We want to thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If anything in today's episode spoke to you, please like subscribe rate and review. Also, don't forget to share this podcast with friends and family.

Speaker 1 48:57

And if there's anybody that you know that you think would be a great guest on intuitive choices, please email us at intuitivechoicespodcastgmailcom. Finally, if you want to know more about our mental health practice, intuitive counseling and wellness, please check us out at intuitivecounselingofphillycom.