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Intuitive Choices
Intuitive Choices is a podcast which asks and answers the question, "What is intuition and how can it help us". Philadelphia based mental health therapists, Kimberley Dobbs and Jacob Miller, hold conversations with guests who have made brave choices to live more meaningful lives.
If you know any inspirational people who you would like us to interview, please let us know at intuitive.choices.podcast@gmail.com
***Please note that these episodes are not recorded therapy sessions and that listening to this podcast is not considered an alternative to mental health therapy.***
If you are interested in mental health therapy please visit us at our practices website at intuitivecounselingofphilly.com
We hope you enjoy the show!
Intuitive Choices
What it Really Takes to be an Entrepreneur; Lessons From Zane Johnson
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Zane Johnson is the founder and Managing Attorney of MZA Legal, a virtual law firm which helps entrepreneurs establish the legal footing they need to make their dreams into a reality. In today's episode. Zane takes us on a journey through his challenges and triumphs, sharing how, networks held together by the love and respect of mentors and specialists are key to success.
In reflecting on what led him to start his own firm, Zane opens up about his mother's brave battle with breast cancer and the deep impact it had on his life and work. Zane’s story teaches us how to navigate this difficult terrain, finding balance through self-knowledge and self-respect. His mother's legacy continues to reverberate through his life, reminding us all to cherish every moment.
Hey everybody, I'm Kimberly Dobbs.
Speaker 2And I'm Jacob Miller.
Speaker 1And we'd like to welcome you to another episode of Intuitive Choices.
Speaker 2Kim and I are mental health therapists working in Philadelphia.
Speaker 1Each week, we invite a guest to speak about how their own intuitive choices have led them to live a more meaningful life.
Speaker 2We hope that this conversation encourages you to make meaningful choices in your own life.
Speaker 1Alright, off we go.
Speaker 2Let's do it Okay. Hi everybody, today I'm so grateful and excited to welcome my old college buddy, zane Johnson, to the podcast. The reason that I wanted Zane to come on today is not just because he's an old friend, but really I've been able to watch him, his family and his business grow from afar for a few years now, and I have just been cheering him on from the sidelines. I think it's pretty extraordinary what he's been able to build both during college and post college, in his personal life and professional life, and it's a lesson I want to learn more from myself and I think our listeners can learn more from as a whole. Without further ado, welcome.
Speaker 1Welcome. We'll pump to have you.
Speaker 3Thank you, I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 2Yeah. So, zane, to start off, I think, like the most prevalent party that's on social media, besides the pictures of your beautiful family, is the legal services you provide and the law firm that you've grown, and I wonder if you could just tell us more about your business and how you got there.
Speaker 3Yeah, definitely so well, thank you for having me first of all, it's definitely a pleasure.
Speaker 3You know my name is Zane Johnson and I have my own firm. It's called Mza legal. It is a virtual black owned law firm that focuses on helping self funded entrepreneurs build a solid foundation for the future growth of their business. So a lot of what I'm doing is setting up LLCs and corporations and drafting and reviewing contracts, and registering trademarks and helping people understand what their intellectual property is Just all of those things that sit at making sure that your business has a solid foundation that ultimately is going to allow you to grow, whatever growth looks like for you. And I often like to say you know, I want to be that person there that when opportunity comes knocking, you know I'm there to help you find your pants so you can open the door.
Speaker 2And so you know I love what I do.
Speaker 3I love the fact that I get to work with. You know so many new entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, you know folks who are building a business from the ground up, because I think a lot of folks who are in that position where they're trying to bridge the gap from idea to a solid, what I like to call base camp business, and so I think that's a passion project for them. It's something that they've always kind of dreamed of, and now they're out there getting to make it happen and I get to be a part of that story. So it's.
Speaker 1I really enjoy the work that I get to do. What like what I mean I don't want to speak for you, but what fulfilling work that must be for you.
Speaker 3Yeah, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1I can't wait to know, like, how you got here.
Speaker 3Well, I mean, I think it's so, it it's like anything else, you know, I think, and even so, like realizing now, like being a business owner I think surely two of you can probably relate to this but like before you jump out there and and you're kind of doing it on your own, you have those dreams and it's very romanticized in terms of like you think it's just going to be great times, like all around, and you know that there will be hard times, but you like even romanticize that to thinking, like imagining yourself, like overcoming those obstacles. And you know, and really you know, running your own business is still like a job in the sense that, like most of what you're doing is like the day to day, like drudgery that like you don't necessarily enjoy.
Speaker 3But it's kind of like I started playing golf recently because my father-in-law is really into golf and he explains it like you know, you'll hit like all these like awful shots, and then you'll hit this one is like beautiful and it's like straight and it's like man, it's like wow, and so you just keep coming back because you want that feeling and that feeling again and and running a business is is kind of like that, as I feel like, especially as you get started, like there's struggles and a lot of what you're doing as you're getting started isn't the stuff that, like you, you know, like doing the bookkeeping and you know.
Speaker 2I'll say this in you know it's like so many people have dreams, right. It's far less pursue those dreams and even less than that, succeed in any facet of those dreams right. And to me that's really what stands out about what you've been able to accomplish so far, like, how old are you? 32. 32. Is that alright to say? Is?
Speaker 1that going to hurt your business?
Speaker 3Not at all, you know.
Speaker 2But you know, to get to where you are by 32, that's like really not easy and it's that. It's that fine line of like. You know, the harder you work, the luckier you are. Yeah, and essentially, I guess, what hard work did you have to put in to get so lucky?
Speaker 3Yeah, I mean, I think, I think a lot of it is just put trying to put yourself in the right position at the right times for like opportunity, because you never know when different opportunities are going to come about, and I think, particularly in business. One of the things that I've learned is, you know, it really is a team sport. I don't, I'm a solopreneur, which means, you know, I'm the only person in my business, I don't have employees, I don't have a business partner, and so, you know, I think for a long time I was, you know, thought of myself as being on my own and then gradually realize that you can still build a team without necessarily having folks who are employees or having a business partner, but that that team just looks like, okay, it's a mentor here, it's you know, someone who I can reach out to, to, you know, schedule a consultation or who can help me with marketing or what it like you put your team.
Speaker 3How do you build the team? It's, it's getting out there and meeting people, and I think I always focus on trying to work with people who I feel like if everything went wrong, regardless of whether or not we have a contract or not, do I feel like this person would do right by me?
Speaker 2Right Like do I feel like they would be?
Speaker 3open to like a fair resolution, to whatever it may be right, because you're always going to run into conflict at some point.
Speaker 1So something you said a few minutes ago, when, when Jacob asked you like how, how did you get so lucky? Essentially like to be the age you are, the business you have, and you and you said just making some some right, like the right timing, you know the right choices, whatever those things are. But the larger question then is how do you know what feels quote unquote right? Because it's not so much about right or wrong, and you can't know whether something is right or wrong until the outcome actually happens.
Speaker 1Yeah, but you have made a I mean just even everything you're saying already so many decisions, right, like okay, I'm a solo, I'm a solopreneur, I you know I need to to. Okay, I need a mentor, I need this. All these decisions that you're making day to day, what's guiding that for you?
Speaker 3I think it's. It's being able to trust your gut, but I think bigger than that it is being able to suspend doubt to a certain extent. So, like that voice in your head that tells you like this isn't good enough, I need to work on it longer or that'll never work. To a certain extent, you have to shut that voice out to be able to put it out.
Speaker 3I'm lucky that my wife recognizes a lot of my own tendencies that tend to hold me back from being my best self and is able to kind of snap me back into reality at different points in time. So, like my screensaver on the back of my laptop is actually something that she said to me one day where I was. I was working on something and I don't remember what it was, but it could have been anything and I was working on it and I've been working on it for like a week, and she was like don't you think it's like good enough yet? And I was like I don't know. And she was like, well, you know, it doesn't have to be perfect. Just put it out there, you know.
Speaker 1And I think that something just as simple as that right, yeah.
Speaker 2Knowing your wife, knowing Elizabeth, I can totally see her. She's super practical and I'm more like in the clouds. Oh, my goodness, yeah.
Speaker 3It's nice to have someone to kind of balance you out and that's, you know, like. One of the things that I've realized over time is like my wife is my business partner. You know, from the perspective of we're just got the chills for some reason, you know like we're in this journey together, like, however, whether it works out or doesn't work out, like she's impacted and affected by that as well. And then she also she knows me really well, so she's able to kind of say, you know, hey, here's what I'm seeing.
Speaker 3Or, you know, she's able to kind of give me the perspective of someone on the outside looking in, of you know here's what seems to be bugging you, or you know here's what seems to be exciting you, or just whatever the situation might be.
Speaker 2What a great way to align your priorities, Like inherently of like you know how do you prioritize, like work over family and all these things like that. But you, in saying that that, like our spouses, we can, we can or significant whoever you know, saying that Elizabeth is your business partner.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2It shows so clearly how you're working to live, not living to work. Yeah, that's a real significant alignment of those priorities. Can you think of anything that like got you to that point?
Speaker 3Um, you know, that's a really good question. I'd like to say that it's just a part of who I am, but I know that, like you know, like I wasn't born with like the like oh, I don't. So I think what it really comes from is, like you know, my mother always used to tell me, like she always used to tell me, to take breaks. You know what I mean, cause I definitely, especially as a kid, I, was someone who could get frustrated when things weren't working the way that I wanted them to. Or, you know, I'm someone, and I still am someone who can hyper focus on something and just really get locked in on that. You know, and one of the things I she always used to tell me, you know take breaks, remember to take breaks, remember to take breaks for yourself. And you know, just sort of understanding that there are a lot of things that are more important than the work, and the work is serving a larger purpose, you know. So don't kind of don't lose sight of that aspect of it.
Speaker 2That's really a gift to not only be taught that from a young age, but also to be able to embody it. Yeah, can you tell us a little more about what growing up was like, when you grew up in the Philadelphia suburbs? Right, go to Philly, boy.
Speaker 3I mean, I really had a great life growing up.
Speaker 3You know, like I think I'm very grateful for. I'm very grateful for my parents, my family, older brother, you know I just I had a lot of people who supported me and having that support system I think as a young person gave me a lot of confidence. And so just to try new things, be a little bit different, and then even at times when I didn't want to step outside of that box, having someone you know challenge me to kind of do that, you know, like one example, I can remember my mom like putting me in tennis lessons and like thinking like tennis isn't cool.
Speaker 3Like I don't want to play tennis Like I'm like 10 and you know, she put me in tennis lessons and I liked it. You know like she made me. She made me take ice skating lessons.
Speaker 2And.
Speaker 3I didn't want to do it and then I ended up really enjoying it and so-.
Speaker 1Did she ever explain to you, like what made her put you in sports like that that were not necessarily like you know, like they were a little bit different, right Then maybe, what your other friends were doing? I?
Speaker 3mean I think that she was lucky enough when she was younger to have some of those experiences. Like I remember her when she, when I was a kid, telling me about, you know, like being in ski club and high school and like getting to go on like field trips, to like go skiing and like how those experiences I think kind of broadened her perspective.
Speaker 3And so I think that she you know both me and my brother, like she did the same thing for both of us, but you know, being able to have experiences that are sort of outside of the norm and outside of what was necessarily expected.
Speaker 1And really that like sounds like it kind of set the tone for you, like just a general, like the way that you operate in the world is like I can be a little bit different. I can like do things a little bit differently.
Speaker 2Yeah, definitely. I think it's. I know, I didn't know that about you. You know the ski lessons, the tennis lessons or the I didn't get to do ski lessons.
Speaker 3I know I'm not scared of you Sowing on those yeah.
Football, Fatherhood, and Choosing a Career
Speaker 2Well, I feel like the next step after golf is probably going to be this ski lessons. But you know to me, you know like we hung out in similar circles in college and you were a year or two older than me. But to me you were the football player you know how you played.
Speaker 1Oh, you played football. I did, I played football in college.
Speaker 3Football was my first, first, first true love, and yeah so it's funny now too, I think, being a being a dad and my son's two and a half, and he's in love with football.
Speaker 2How is it Two and a half year old? In love with football, oh my goodness it's, it's insane.
Speaker 3We had we had to get him a football helmet because he was like obsessed with like, any time he saw a bike helmet, any type of helmet man. We took him to Dick's Sporting Goods. It was like, like it was like we took him to Chuck E Cheese. Oh my he was so excited All the different like sports balls and and equipment and just everything you know. But the interesting part about that is, you know, my dad is like a football fanatic, you know, eagles fan, like Bleeds Green, like yeah.
Speaker 3And so, you know, growing up I was in love with football and I think a lot of people, especially, like you know, within a family, we're kind of like oh you're, you know, you're kind of pushing him towards this, but it was never like that and it and it's like it's weird because you know, now seeing my son and it's like he's in love with sports in general and football in particular, and it's like I haven't done anything. So it's like it's weird to just see how that, you know, it's almost like there's some sort of energy that he can feel when I'm watching football or when I'm watching sports, that he just also gravitates towards. I don't know what it is, but it's. It's crazy to like he loves sports more than I do.
Speaker 2Let's make your dad so happy to see him Both my dad and my wife's dad too because it's like both of them are sports fans, so it's he comes by honestly, yeah.
Speaker 1I want to. I want to just circle back to. So. You are an attorney and you have this, this business, right. How did you? What made you decide to become an attorney in the first place?
Speaker 3Oh, that's a good question. So it was kind of like the it really started that the, I guess the idea of it started when I was younger and people used to say well, you like to argue, so you should be an attorney.
Speaker 2How young is young?
Speaker 3I mean, like you know, seven, eight, and, and so you got a mouth, and so it's like well, I mean like in my family, like we used to argue for fun, like that. Like we would have like family gatherings, especially particularly on my mom's side.
Speaker 3We'd have family gatherings and then, like after we ate, like the family activity was basically to sit around in a circle and debate whatever's going on and so you know, like debating and arguing was kind of like a part of it's a part of of who I am in a sense, but I think that's a very naive way of like thinking about what attorneys do, and so actually had the opportunity to go to law school. What really kind of drove me towards that was, you know, I wanted to help people and I knew that having a law degree would give me, put me in a position to be able to have an impact in the world. And then the other thing is I wanted to have a beamer.
Speaker 2If.
Speaker 3I'm being.
Speaker 1if I'm being completely honest, that was like my SNA BMW. Yes, it's in a BMW.
Speaker 3That was my dream car, oh my goodness In high school and college, and so I was like I can do both of these things if I go to law school.
Speaker 1Now I don't know how long you were married for or how long you've been married for, but you know you give a lot of props to Elizabeth as to like how she is such a support system for you and following your gut. Now it sounds like there was a lot of you following your gut in going to law school and pursuing that and helping people. So like what do you attribute that to if Elizabeth wasn't yet in the picture?
Navigating Career Choices and Personal Loss
Speaker 3Yeah, I mean, I think the following, my gut part, has always been something that I've been pretty good at. It's I think it's being able to sort of temper some of the more extreme thought processes or ideas that I might have. Like I said, I'm very idealistic. So you know, when I again when I went to law school, I was like I'll be able to help people and I'll be able to make a bunch of money. And then I got to law school and I started to really figure out what lawyers actually do. And Where'd you go to law school? Temple, the wows.
Speaker 1And so what. Anything silly. Yes, yes, gotta throw that in there.
Speaker 3Really in law school and I think in particular at a school like temple it's, you know, it's a state like university.
Speaker 3And so you're kind of like encouraged to go either like the big law route where you work at like a large firm and you work these crazy hours and you make good money. But to me I was like I don't wanna work all those hours doing work that isn't gonna be fulfilling to me because I know I'm gonna take that Like I knew myself well enough to know I'm gonna take that money and I'm gonna go to the bar with it.
Speaker 2Like I'm gonna take that money and I'm gonna oh my gosh, hi, I wanna go crazy Like.
Speaker 3I'm just being honest. So I was like I don't want that because I think I'll be miserable. So the other route was like public interest, was just like working in government or working for nonprofits or just, you know, doing some sort of work that's kind of more related to the public community, society, that sort of thing. And so I was lucky enough to have an opportunity to intern at the homeless advocacy project after my first year of law school and that was a eye-opening moment for me because, I think, one it really opened my eyes to the level of impact that I can have on one person's life. Just even having a conversation with someone, like the impact that that can have on someone. And, in particular, you know, when you're talking about people who are either homeless or, you know, on the brink of being unhoused, it's like oftentimes, like these are people who are overlooked. You know someone who you know people try their best to try to act like don't exist and so even just having that conversation can be impactful.
Speaker 3You know, that led me towards, you know, public interest work and, again, like doing work that felt more purpose-driven. So at that point I kind of had to make the decision. Well, you know, maybe one day I'll have the beamer, but if I get it, I get it, if not, it's not that important.
Speaker 2That's a huge transition.
Speaker 1Yeah, Jacob, go for it.
Speaker 2There's so much self-knowledge and of who you have to be to fine-tune your career, to knowing like if I go this route, I may have a lot of money, it'll be bad for me I need the fulfillment and but there's also a lot of self-love and knowing I'm allowed to do work that is fulfilling and serve mankind and at the same time, make a living along the way, that's exactly right.
Speaker 2That is a very difficult line to walk, which is, I'm just gonna say, externally. From the outside it's like a detestament to your own self-respect, I think, which is huge to have that level of well-being.
Speaker 1And self-awareness. I mean it's really profound actually to like bear witness to that, like to hear this.
Speaker 2Can you think of anything that may have happened to help focus you, to have that level of self-knowledge, focus, self-respect?
Speaker 3Yeah, well, I mean, I think so. Before law school, right before I got into law school, I lost my mother to breast cancer.
Speaker 1And that. So how old were you when she?
Speaker 3I was 22.
Speaker 1And how long did she? Was she sick for?
Speaker 3She was sick. She was diagnosed my junior year, and so I think she had it, for it would have been like a year and some change about a year and a half. I mean it was when she told me. I remember when she called me and told me and I remember not taking it as seriously as I feel like I would now, because I just imagined her beating it.
Speaker 3I just couldn't really imagine that it was something and she was so graceful in the way that she battled it, because you never would have known what she was really going through and I didn't really understand or know until we were kind of like at the end, because she also, she was like, she wasn't like telling us, like here's exactly what the doctors are saying, like well, it was more like everything's gonna be okay, here are the different treatments, like here's what they're telling me as far as like what I need to do and here are the things that I need from you. But it wasn't like a, it wasn't really until we got to the point where I was actually on spring break and I was in Atlantic City and I got a call from my neighbor who was like your mom was outside and she like wasn't making sense and like things just didn't really seem right. So like the ambulance is here, like they're coming to, like take her to the hospital.
Speaker 1And what was that phone call like for you?
Speaker 3It was like it was devastating, because I think by that point it had been about a year. I really I could kind of see how the illness was affecting her. You know, like she was losing weight.
Speaker 3She wasn't able to get around as well, you know, and so I could see how it was really affecting her. And so getting that call was kind of like getting a wake up call that like, yeah, this is, this could be, you know, the beginning of the end, in a sense. And it turned out that it was, you know, but I think also, you know, so that was like early March of 2013. And she passed away in May. So you know, I think-.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 3Having, I think, kind of the experience over that, that two month period between kind of like having that realization that like, okay, this is something that is most likely going to be terminal for her, and like kind of coming to terms with that. It was. It was a period of time where I got to like really appreciate her presence in a way that, like you don't, like you take people for granted, you know.
Speaker 3And I think that having that two month period where you know again I just kind of going through that experience, it really made me so grateful for like every moment you know at that point you know. So I actually have some pretty fond memories, kind of just during that period as odd as it may sound of just like spending time with her.
Speaker 1Not odd at all, actually. Yeah, it sounds like it was really like very intentional time spent you know, with her.
Speaker 2I can't. You know, I really didn't know you were going through this when we were in school together. You know, and uh, I think I'm like feeling the, the jarringness of it. Not only that it's your mom and that it was so rapid, but you know, muhlenberg's a small school, like two thousand some students, and they have like a Feel like they have a strong like culture in the senior year of it's like a really a big party.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 2And I remember, like from spring break to graduation, it's just like everyone is like completely intoxicated, literally and frigidly all the time. You know, and to go from the to being woken up during spring break through, like the senior week celebrations where the school really tries to celebrate the seniors, that I cannot. I Cannot fully appreciate how jarring that would must have been to go back and forth in that.
Speaker 3Yeah, it was. It was crazy because it was like I was living in in two worlds and so the back and forth, like that. It was very much like that and I think you know so, basically, like my mom was in the hospital and then you know pretty much in hospice care and you know so Muhlenberg is like an hour up the road from where I'm from in.
Speaker 1Ambler oh that's where I live.
Speaker 3Okay, yeah, yeah. So you know, grew up in Ambler and so she was, you know, in in hospice care and you know I would, you know, come back, spend time with her and I was kind of just really back and forth and I think you know, during that time is it was like processing a lot of different emotions. You know, obviously I'm sad. You know there are aspects, you know I'm, you know, feeling angry, you know, I think, but the some of the overarching feelings that I remember feeling were like envy in a sense and.
Speaker 3Resentment, I think, towards some of my, just towards my classmates in general who, like no one, no one did really know kind of what I was going through and feeling like you know, everyone is enjoying this period of transition and kind of celebrating this, this accomplishment, and I'm having to. You know, I was also feeling a certain level of guilt, I think, with being at school.
Speaker 3Yeah it's kind of like, I know I know what's coming like. Should I even like? Should I even, you know, be enjoying or celebrating anything with my classmates? Should I be spending all of my time, you know, at my mother's side, like you know? Just just a lot of different Emotions to kind of process, you know.
Speaker 3But I just think, you know, one of the things that I just kept going back to that I think helped me kind of through that time and afterwards was just feeling grateful, reminding myself of how lucky I was, you know, to have had, you know, my mother in my life and and you know, honestly, she was, you know, no disrespect to dad, love my dad, but to me I feel like my mom was like the best Parent that you could imagine, you know, and so like to have to have had the experience of having her in my life and Experiencing her love for the years that I did, you know, I was just grateful for that and and that kind of help help get me through, you know, those periods that whole, I like, I can feel like my eyes are just like Well, I know what's tears hearing you speak.
Speaker 1How do you feel like that entire experience you know just having to to make those to navigate right, like graduating school and the celebratory aspects of that that you're Wanting to participate in but like can't really. And then you're, you know, sharing those times with your mom as she's going through her illness and how do you feel like that all shaped you to Now do what you're doing, even in like in your personal life, to professionally, personally, like. In what ways do you feel like that's shaped you?
Speaker 3I mean, I think when you experience the loss of a loved one that up close and personal it, it brings a sense of how real and final death is yeah and so it makes you appreciate the moments that you have a little bit more.
Speaker 3And I think the the other part too was, after she passed away, getting to see how much she had put in place.
Speaker 3That really helped to make sure that I was kind of taking care of Right.
Speaker 3So, like when she passed away, like she had life insurance, she owned her home, you know so like she she had actually been, she had been laid off, you know, up maybe a couple years prior to her passing away and Never worked full-time again, but you know so to have had everything kind of in order so that when she passed away, like I was actually left with enough where I could, you know, with the scholarships that I got, pay my way through law school and Honestly have enough left over to put a down payment on a house after coming out of law school.
Speaker 3And so, like you know again, this isn't someone who was like wealthy, like she never made you know a whole bunch of money in her work, but she prepared herself for, you know, if something like this were to happen, you know my sons will be taken care of, and so I think that that piece as well really has Been what's inspired me to like say you know, I want to build something that I can leave to the next generation. Well, also like wanting to like lead a life that's very like purposeful and fulfilling. You know, like she was definitely someone who, like she, went on vacation Every summer, like, regardless she was going on vacation in.
Speaker 3August like second week of August like.
Speaker 3I'm gonna be on vacation, so don't bother me, and that sort of thing. You know someone who, who took their time, someone who you know just enjoyed some of the simple things in life you know, like taking a walk or eating lunch outside. You know things like that. You know an understanding that, the meaning that they give to life. So you know, I think, just in terms of you know, professionally and purpose and personally, just taking the time to enjoy those things that bring me happiness and bring me joy and not being ashamed of that.
Speaker 2It's, it's a, it's a special Depth of love that isn't just the love of you know, a hug, a smile, a gift. It's the love of actually Manifesting responsibility to care for someone, and that responsible love I actually don't think is so common. Yeah, and to have a multi-generational view of the, of the effects that you make will affect future generations, mm-hmm. Unfortunately, I think that's a lesson that can only be learned via someone's passing.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, and.
Speaker 3I mean getting an opportunity to See what others have done and having that personal, that personal experience with it. I remember growing up and Like in my mother's side of the family they had, I think at one point like owned, like you know, this land in Gwynedd Valley, which I don't if you're familiar with that area. It's like a very wealthy area.
Speaker 3Yeah, at this point and I remember my grandmother saying, like you know, the family owned this land but then when you know your great-grandmother passed and your you know great-uncle passed, like there wasn't anyone there who was like really responsible for taking care of it and, although like somebody could have stepped in and did that, no one did and, you know, lost the property to like taxes.
Speaker 3You know so like you know, I think also like passing along those experiences of history and kind of knowing Knowing what's happened within your family and and knowing the mistakes that others have made, hopefully helps you to be able to avoid those mistakes. And I know, you know, like my dad is a huge storyteller and and that's one of the ways that I've learned, learned from him over the years, to be able to. You know, I've made a lot of the same mistakes that he's made, but, having heard the stories, being able to realize, okay, that's, that's, that's what he was talking about when he told me, told me about that one.
Speaker 2You know it's between theoretical and embodied knowledge, exactly exactly right.
Speaker 3So it's like okay, I don't need to make that mistake again, because he told me about it, I experienced it. Okay now. Now I can kind of move forward. I don't have to.
Speaker 1It's really interesting because I'm thinking about what, what your business is all about, about Helping people and very particularly like there's you know, people who you want to be helping, the found the foundational pieces of starting a business is like Now we're hearing your story and I'm going, oh, this all makes so much sense, right, because there's been a lot of things that have happened in your life and, most significantly, how, when your mother passed away, she really Made sure you were taken care of and these very tangible ways, you and your brother, and then it's like you're, it's like you're taking that almost is like a legacy and you are carrying on. It's almost like you're. That's how that's. I don't want to speak for you, but it's like. I just see it like this, like such a beautiful way of like carrying your mother, you know, like just Sharing your mother it very much informs the work that I choose to do, because I think you know so.
Speaker 3Like I said, in terms of when I was in law school, I decided to go the public interest route. I went to, I went and worked at a small nonprofit doing you went straight from undergrad to law school.
Speaker 2When straight from undergrad to law school when did when, in May, did your mom pass away like before after graduation?
Speaker 3It was actually a week before graduation. Oh my god, yeah, oh my gosh so it was um, it was it was crazy Did you go to your graduation. Yeah, I did the my mom's funeral, I think was a Couple days before the graduation, you know. So I had, I think I had an opportunity to kind of you know, say goodbye, and then not really enjoyed graduation. But you know, it was kind of like the closing of two chapters in a sense.
Speaker 3I was still going through the, the grieving process, but the funeral to me was a huge, I think, played a huge role in like the grieving process for me in terms of just Giving me a space to let things out that I think that I've been holding in.
Speaker 3I think, especially when it comes to, you know, the, the sadness and that sort of thing you know. But when I you know, after going through law school, you know I went to work at a small nonprofit doing criminal record expungement work, which I Love, the work, I love the ability to you know work with folks and and you know these are folks who you know a lot of people don't know when you have a criminal record, that the way that it impacts someone's life, you know it might be employment, that's what we think of most frequently, but it could also be something like getting a loan to go back to school, or Someone who was like in their 70s being able to get into an assisted living facility, or even like being able to go on field trips with your kids, coach the little, the Little League team you know. So it was. I really loved the work in sense of, in the sense of how impactful I felt like it was, but the.
Speaker 3The thing I didn't love about it was that I felt like I was kind of swimming upstream, in the sense that it's like I'm trying to undo and use these like processes that are like difficult to navigate for like no good reason to help people be able to Get back their full life right, like these are folks who you know are 5, 10, 15, 20 years removed from like any Interaction with law enforcement and, in some cases, folks who weren't even ever convicted of anything, so like if they were charged with something they'd still have a record until they got it expunged, and so you know it felt like I'm trying to like undo things that have been done.
Speaker 1Are you speaking more like systemically? Yeah, yeah, yeah you know.
Speaker 3So, like it's, it's like people are continuing to be punished for something that They've already, you know either serve their punishment punishment, for, you know, that happened years ago. So, you know, what I love about working with entrepreneurs is I have the opportunity to have the opportunity to do work that feels very freeing, in the sense that I'm helping someone to build something that allows them to then, you know, build this sort of life that they want to live, whatever that looks like, and and also build something that they can then pass on to future generations. And I feel like it's a way for me to Be able to give back, because there's there really is a lack of Affordable and accessible, and when I say accessible, I mean, you know, not just Is it affordable, but also like, is it? Does it feel approachable?
Speaker 3right like a lot of lawyers and law firms, it for a lot of people it doesn't feel approachable. You know, talking in an everyday language, making it clear in terms of like, if I call you, are you gonna send me a bill? Yeah, you know. So, like how to you know just all of those different things?
Speaker 1and I think that humanizing a process for a lot of people. Let's be honest, you know. They don't like attorneys, you know and it's an intimidating experience and, and you gosh, you're just humanized the whole experience.
Speaker 3Trying to yeah, no, you're doing it.
Speaker 1I keep saying this how can you?
Speaker 2There is so much less that stops people living their lives than the passing of a beloved mother and I. How did you go from your, from your mother's funeral before graduation and Continue to go to law school? I, where does that come from? Um, you know, I think it's more habit energy than anything else, like?
Speaker 3I don't think. I think was it even a question? What's? What is habit, energy, what is that? I've never heard of this. Um, it might not be a thing. You just made it a thing. You know, I think of it in terms of, like you know.
Speaker 1Like, a body of motion will stay in motion.
Speaker 3A body at rest will stay at rest, like one of those momentum sort of things where, like, when you have a certain way of of going about doing things, then you know that's the way that you're going to continue to go about it. So I think, you know, for me it was all like a lot of my experiences were, you know, built around football, again my mother. So, like, just you know, and so for me, right, football, football is a sport where, like you've always got it, you got to move on to the next play, like no matter what happened last play. You know, I think that's a good thing the next play, like no matter what happened last play, you've got to move on to the next play. You got a.
Speaker 3So, like a, good example clean yeah a good example, like when I was in college. We were playing our rival johns hopkins, who was always really good, and I made a stupid play. I hit a guy out of bounds and then I was pissed at myself. So I like threw my mouthpiece and the ref thought that I was like yelling at him for throwing the flag.
Speaker 3So, he then threw another flag, so I just got like 30 yards worth of penalties on this one play and I'm like I'm I'm literally, like, you know, feeling awful because I'm like, man, this is a big game, it's a it's close to still early and I just made this huge, huge mistake, um, and it's like, all right, you know, move on to the next play. And then, you know, one of our cornerbacks, kairi hues, bailed me out big time on the very next play because an interception and I'm like, thank you bro Like thank you.
Speaker 1But that's, you know, like that but you were able to say to yourself in that moment, through all that, like rage or whatever you want to call it, like you know, you just got to focus on the next play.
Speaker 3That's the only thing you can do like, like, like, like the game will continue to go on, and, and so I think what a metaphor for life. Exactly.
Speaker 1Holy cow, I want to say the s word, but I don't want to hit explicit on our next episode. But yes, that's amazing, I like that's, that's life.
Transitioning, Responsibility, and Faith
Speaker 3You know, like the, something happens and then you know the next play is is coming, so you gotta, you gotta line up and play it, Um, or else you know, the mistake will continue to compound itself and that's, I think that's what you ultimately want to try to avoid. And my mother, you know she never plays sports, but she was very much like that just as a human being. It was All right. You know, time to move on. Like that happened, so it's. You know, now it's time to like move on to the next thing and Not like.
Speaker 2It's not in a crass way, but no one's saying like, except when you say like time to move on, it's like almost. It's not just that you are moving on, it's like time has actually passed, literally. This is actually a new situation. You can either choose to be Mentally stuck in a previous act that was imperfect and bringing you like resentment, shame, anger, whatever, because it wasn't perfect, or it could be like nope, things are actually different now and I'm gonna learn from whatever the other thing was and keep moving in the in the present.
Speaker 3Yeah, and I, you know, I don't really know, you know, I think the other thing in terms of like Habits, like I don't know how I would have reacted differently had that not been my graduation year, because I think again, like transitioning from everything within that moment in time Was kind of like a, a transition from having less responsibility to having more right, so like, my mom passes.
Speaker 3Now I've got to deal with her estate. You know the house bills that I didn't have to worry about before, um, and you know it was. It was, you know, as I'm also heading into law school. So I think that you know, like that kind of next, next play mentality, um, so to speak, it was also just kind of born in it. It was also a piece of necessity as well, because, like, there are like more responsibilities that I have to take on and and just like Getting into that habit over the course of like Coming into law school.
Speaker 3You know it also set my mind in a, in a, in a place where, you know, right, you're coming from college, where, like, especially around graduation, everyone's having a good time and partying and so on and so forth.
Speaker 3To now, like it's very real, like I've got bills, I'm in the real world and you know I'm preparing for Law school, which is going to be the biggest challenge, you know, of my life from a I don't know profession, from a career standpoint, in terms of, um, you know, preparing for that, that sort of education. So, um, I'm still sometimes I'm still like shocked at like the, the discipline that I was Able to kind of fall into when I started law school because it was, like you know, wake up at seven, um, go to class. Class starts at nine. I'd have class in the morning, I'd study a little bit and eat lunch class in the afternoon. I'd get home around like four and I'd go straight to the library and from like 4 30 till nine when the library closed, I was at the library. When the library closed I came home I'd watch an hour of martin and go to bed and like that was. That was my schedule every day throughout the week and I'm like I still can't get on a schedule like that you know?
Speaker 3no, I know um, you know, but um, you know. So I think that that the habit portion of it was just like you know, as I, I took that mentality of there's something else coming. I have to just, whatever I'm dealing with, I have to put my best foot forward to kind of deal with whatever is coming and also having faith.
Speaker 1I will say that in and of itself is really incredible, because what I'm hearing from you is like there were all these things that happened stemming from, well, your mom passing away and then having to make all. It was just like you were naturally sort of transitioning into this law school, making adult decisions, those kinds of things, but taking on responsibilities as the result of the passing of your mom. But your mentality around all of that is, like you said, all right, I'm just like you're making this conscious decision to put your best foot forward, right, like you're like, yes, this is the next play. And also you didn't have to have a positive or optimistic mindset and you did, and that is remarkable.
Speaker 3Yeah, I mean yeah, go ahead, go ahead. I think a big part of my life and all the decisions that I've made, especially deciding to go out and start my own business, a lot of it is faith, and I don't necessarily mean faith from a religious standpoint, but being able to have the faith in yourself that you'll figure it out.
Speaker 2Like, no matter what.
Speaker 3The next step looks like being able to know that, whatever that challenge is, I'll be able to find a solution to it, and I have confidence in that.
Speaker 1Even if that solution doesn't necessarily feel good or feel pleasurable right. It's like trusting, almost like trusting the process Exactly. That's amazing.
Speaker 2I really believe that that level of personal faith, personal trust, is a faith that can only come from someone who's been loved.
Speaker 1And yeah, oh, that's so beautiful, but a lot of the time I try.
Speaker 2I really I think sometimes people feel stuck to like learn to love yourself, like an ideal parent would love you, and you seem to have been blessed with actual parents who just gave it to you, which is uncommon to what to?
Speaker 2another thing I wanted to touch on with the conversation regards to responsibility. Is you just? It was like a lightning bolt, reminding me of something that Victor Frankel wrote in his book man Search for Meaning, where he said if we have the statue of liberty on the East coast, we also need a statue of responsibility on the West coast.
Speaker 2Because liberty without responsibility, like essentially it descends into hedonism. You know you can do whatever you want, to do whatever you want and like that's true, but you actually hold on to the most independence and the most liberty when you are responsible and to be free to choose that own responsibility. And so I know we've spoken about your career and we touched on you married my friend Elizabeth, and that's taking on another level of responsibility, and then it's even more responsibility to have a child. So it does not. You know we're speaking about a lot of our friends who we love dearly. They haven't taken those steps to add even more and more responsibility into their lives. And so not only did you take on the responsibility to help manage whatever estate affairs after your mother's passing, the responsibility of caring for yourself in law school, what made you keep going to take on the responsibility of getting married and then having a kid?
Speaker 3I mean, I think that's something that I always wanted you know. So I think yeah. I've just always looked forward to being a dad, and I credit that to my own father. You know you, and when you talk about love, like I was, I felt the love very much.
Lessons and Joy of Parenthood
Speaker 3You know, like I said earlier, like I felt, I always felt very supported. You know my dad in particular, I think. You know, I think, as men especially like sometimes we kind of struggle with like how do we show love? I think, in particular you know with, with the, you know with the people who are around us, like our brothers, our friends, our you know sons and fathers, and you know how do we sort of express that sort of thing. My dad always made it a point to tell me that he loved me.
Speaker 3And that's something that I've I've carried with me as a father, you know, and for him, you know, he said you know, my dad never told me that he loved me and he's like I know that he did, but he never said it and he lost his father. You know, my grandfather actually, you know, died. He was actually murdered you know, so oh my goodness.
Speaker 3And so you know, I think that like that, that sort of like experience too, of, like you know, thinking that you're going to have your dad for like longer, and then you know he's taken away from you and like I'd never heard him say those words, you know, to me that meant something and it's like you know again it's something. It's like he's set that energy into motion to wear it. Now it's like trickled down to his grandson, you know, getting that same sort of love. And so you know, I think again, like I always wanted, that I don't even really look at it. It is a responsibility and I look at it that way, especially now having one because it's.
Speaker 2It's two totally different things to say like I want children and like to like, actually like I used to say.
Speaker 3I used to say I wanted to have a basketball team. And then you know, I remember, you know, having our first, and my mother-in-law was like so do you still want that basketball?
Speaker 2team.
Speaker 3I was like let's take it one at a time, oh my God, what am I going to say?
Speaker 1Like one V one, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3Exactly, take it one on one for now, but it's yeah I know it's hard to look at a responsibility because it's enjoyable but I think like taking on responsibility as a choice and embracing it.
Speaker 2There is a joy to being able to be responsible for other things.
Speaker 3Yeah, there is, and I you know it's. You got to be a lot, a lot more selfless.
Speaker 3I think that was one of the things that I definitely worried a lot about, you know, prior to our son being born, was like am I going to be able to be as selfless as I need to be, you know, as selfless as I remember my parents being, in order to, you know, make sure that my son, you know, has everything that he needs from an emotional standpoint. You know, and it's never perfect, you know it's not something that you're like good at just cause you like want to be good at it, or just cause you have like some talents, like anything else, like you have to work at being a good parent.
Speaker 1And it's a journey, it's learning on the job kind of experience. It just is I, you know, I think that it's a big lesson that you can only really learn as you're doing it.
Speaker 2I think if you can convey how hard it is to become a parent to someone first of it's impossible.
Speaker 3Second, if you could, do it.
Speaker 2I don't think anyone like it's, so it brings me so much joy. I love my son so much and I even yeah, just like the transition of being a couple, being a family, is. It's such a beautiful transition, but it's like it is directly I guess, indirectly proportional to how hard it is.
Speaker 3You know it's so hard and it's the best thing in the world, and they just completely wrapped up one and the other and you're like that six month beard where, like I remember that being for me, that was the most difficult period because all of the things, all the things that I've always looked forward to as a father, were like, the things that, like I remember and enjoyed about you know my childhood and spending time with my dad. So it was like going out back and playing sports and, you know, watching TV together and you know playing with toys on the floor and so like when your child is like, when that's what you're looking forward to, and then you know your child is like you lay them on their stomach and they can't hold their head up Like it's, like, okay, it's like I got a little ways to go before we get there, and there's a lot of, you know, it's a lot of just like.
Speaker 3so like, for example, our son wouldn't? He had like this really bad reflex where, like if you laid him down like when he was sleeping. He would like I forget what the reflex is called, I think it's normal but he would like jerk his hands forward.
Speaker 2And wake him yeah.
Speaker 3And he'd wake himself up and so that like like little things like that, that like you never really know, but like it was so challenging for me because it's like having the like, the patience, and like teaching yourself or even you know, like when he's throwing a temper tantrum, to remember in you know, in my head, like I've got to maintain my cool and my calm and my collectedness in order to eventually get him to calm down.
Speaker 1And so, like you know, it's just but you couldn't have known that while Elizabeth was pregnant or while you were dreaming of being a, dad for, like a basketball team, you can only know the like minutia that comes with being a dad or mom when it's happening. Like when you're in it and it's a good time.
Speaker 3It's a really good time and it's like the, I think you know on the flip side of that, like the experiences that you get, like you can't, you can't get them anywhere else. Like, even as much as I look forward to being a parent, I never imagined that it would be as amazing as it is, like even just seeing the little things of you know where it seems like from week to week, like oh wow, you weren't saying that last week or you weren't doing that last week.
Speaker 3Or like you know, he's like obsessed with watching Monsters Inc and now he's at the point where he's starting to like act out some of the scenes and it's like wow you know, on one side it's like are we watching this movie too much?
Speaker 2And on the other, it's like, it's like that's just really cool to watch you do that, you know. So I'm so grateful that you joined us on the podcast and I just my biggest takeaway from the time we just spent together is you are a complete testament to what it means to be loved and be a conduit for love. Thank you, that's all it is. Thank you, yeah.
Speaker 1It's so beautiful I just wanna cry yeah.
Speaker 2And so thank you so much for being you and continuing to share the love that's been given to you, to both your family, to me, to your friends, all of your clients too.
Speaker 1Like I just think, I think, when you are doing what you're doing, just operating in the world, and you're doing that from a place of love, like Jacob's saying, like your clients are in really good hands, you know, yeah, they're lucky to have you.
Speaker 3I appreciate that and I hope I'm really. I love the way you put that because I do. I feel like that's the way I try to live my life is by sharing the love that I've been given with other people, regardless of what that looks like. Yeah, I'm not running around telling everyone that I love them.
Speaker 2No, it's this.
Speaker 3Sometimes there's an urge to wanna do things like, but just showing it in the way that I try to care for people.
Speaker 2So I mean I appreciate that it's the love embedded within respect.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2So for those people who would like to be loved up by their attorney, how can they get in touch with you?
Speaker 3So you can get in touch with me over the phone at 215-999-7790. But for those of you who would just like to, kind of you know, stay in touch from afar, you can follow me on Instagram at mzalegal. I'm also on LinkedIn, mzanejohnson, you know, when I'm just, I'm around, so definitely.
Speaker 1Do you have a?
Speaker 3website. I do have a website.
Speaker 1It's mzalegal, Thank you for got the website and we'll put all of those in the show notes. Yeah, yeah, because people are gonna wanna find you for sure. So we wanna thank you so much for having this amazing conversation with us.
Speaker 3Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1It's really our pleasure and our privilege.
Speaker 2Yeah, definitely Thank you. Anytime you're in Philly, come on by.
Speaker 1For reals Okay.
Speaker 2We wanna thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If anything in today's episode spoke to you, please like subscribe, rate and review. Also, don't forget to share this podcast with friends and family.
Speaker 1And if there's anybody that you know that you think would be a great guest on intuitive choices, please email us at intuitivechoicespodcast at gmailcom. Finally, if you wanna know more about our mental health practice, intuitive counseling and wellness, please check us out at intuitivecounselingofphillycom.