Have you ever wondered what it takes to survive against all odds? We invite you to join us as we enter the world of Mel, a brave individual who shares her deeply personal experience as a survivor of domestic abuse. Through her harrowing journey that begins in a difficult childhood, where she experienced firsthand the devastation of parents battling addiction and homelessness.
In this powerful conversation, Mel gives us an intimate glimpse into her remarkable journey of self-discovery and recovery. Despite life dealing her a difficult hand, she managed to build a new life for herself and her daughter. Her story shines a light on the often-overlooked emotional aspect of abusive relationships and serves as a beacon of hope for those who might be going through a similar ordeal. Listen and be inspired by Mel's resilience and strength, and take to heart her profound advice - dare to be brave, reach out for help, and always remember that you are not alone.
National Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-7233
https://www.thehotline.org/identify-abuse/domestic-abuse-warning-signs/
Social Media: LPoP
https://www.instagram.com/lastpieceofpiepodcast/
https://www.threads.net/@lastpieceofpiepodcast
https://www.tiktok.com/@last.piece.of.pie?_t=8j0uDxkYoVm&_r=1
Send us your comments or questions and we will answer them on the show!
email - lastpieceofpiepodcast@gmail.com
Have you ever wondered what it takes to survive against all odds? We invite you to join us as we enter the world of Mel, a brave individual who shares her deeply personal experience as a survivor of domestic abuse. Through her harrowing journey that begins in a difficult childhood, where she experienced firsthand the devastation of parents battling addiction and homelessness.
In this powerful conversation, Mel gives us an intimate glimpse into her remarkable journey of self-discovery and recovery. Despite life dealing her a difficult hand, she managed to build a new life for herself and her daughter. Her story shines a light on the often-overlooked emotional aspect of abusive relationships and serves as a beacon of hope for those who might be going through a similar ordeal. Listen and be inspired by Mel's resilience and strength, and take to heart her profound advice - dare to be brave, reach out for help, and always remember that you are not alone.
National Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-7233
https://www.thehotline.org/identify-abuse/domestic-abuse-warning-signs/
Social Media: LPoP
https://www.instagram.com/lastpieceofpiepodcast/
https://www.threads.net/@lastpieceofpiepodcast
https://www.tiktok.com/@last.piece.of.pie?_t=8j0uDxkYoVm&_r=1
Send us your comments or questions and we will answer them on the show!
email - lastpieceofpiepodcast@gmail.com
This episode contains a personal story of domestic abuse. The content may be distressing and triggering for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. The purpose of sharing the stories to shed light on the experiences of survivors and to encourage empathy and understanding. We also want to emphasize that this episode is intended to raise awareness, provide support and inspire change. Remember that you are not alone and there is help available. If you or someone you know is currently experiencing domestic abuse, please seek help from a qualified professional or a local support organization. The National Domestic Violence Hotline Number is 1-800-799-7233 or 1-800-799-SAFE. Hi, welcome, Mel Poppers, this last piece of pie. I'm Jen, I'm Mel. We are excited today because Mel gets to tell her story. Ugh, one of us is excited, I'm being tortured, but yes, so You're going to be okay.
Speaker 1:Thanks, Take a deep breath and we're going to walk you through Mel's 17-year marriage. Oh girl, I was going to go back to the day I was born.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it's going to be like a part three.
Speaker 1:All right, we're going to talk a little bit about Mel's past.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So a few of the Al Poppers have reached out and been like, hey, it would be helpful if you all did a episode on your lives and your past and what you're about and what made you you, and so they can connect with us on a deeper level. And I was like you know that's really nice. Like I know we haven't. I know it's been like on our radar to do, but we haven't did it because I haven't been ready.
Speaker 2:And now I feel like I'm being challenged by our Al Poppers to give it my all, so I'm going to be vulnerable Next week. You're up.
Speaker 1:Exciting, so it's going to be a little bit of sensitive topic, but it's okay, yeah, okay, so where do you want to start?
Speaker 2:I'm going to start with the day I was born.
Speaker 1:Okay, the day you were born?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was born to two addicts in Flint Michigan.
Speaker 1:What kind of addicts Alcohol, drugs, both, both, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:So they did alcohol.
Speaker 1:They did drugs like weed and big drugs Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, heroin, oh God, I don't know. I've never asked. I don't want to know. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:So two addicts born in Flint Michigan.
Speaker 2:Yep, and my dad, my real dad. We'll call him my biological father. He was abusive to my mom, so we actually lived in and out of homeless shelters in safe houses the first two years of my life.
Speaker 1:So do you remember any of that experience, being so young, of living in and out of homeless shelters, like do you remember any of the feelings that you had?
Speaker 2:The only thing I do remember, just because my grandma told me and my mom's told me that one time I guess I got really sick there and I had to live with my grandma for a little while and where, like she had my crib, my real dad like threw a brick through the window and thank God I wasn't in my crib at that time, but I would happen to be there, so he must have known I was there, right, so that I do remember. And then I don't know. I want to say between three and five, my first childhood memory was being almost being kidnapped by who I don't know.
Speaker 1:Like some random person. I have no idea. I don't know who that person is.
Speaker 2:And the only reason why I know it's like legit, because I end up going to my mom as an adult and describing to her the scene that I can see, which I can tell you the color of the sidewalk where the bushes are, the color of the van. The doors open, the three steps I ran down, turning right into her apartment where her bed was, where she was located, like I know every detail. So were you outside?
Speaker 1:I was outside. You were outside by yourself, mm-hmm. At three, yeah. And then somebody came up to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I remember a big white van and I remember the door being open and somehow I got away, I don't know how, and that's all I can remember and like to this day like those fans just like freaked me out.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, come on, they're like known as the creeper van yes. Fucking child molester vans, they still haven't changed.
Speaker 2:Right, Exactly. So my favorite early memory was I always thought and this is like side note, but I'm getting hot. I gotta take off my bathroom, yeah.
Speaker 1:Mel got into super comfy clothes for this episode. I am.
Speaker 2:I just need to deal with this and get it over with. So I'm like sulking my hair's in point to have no makeup on and I'm like in my jammies. My other memory is I always thought maybe I was raped or molested and I find like it was just like a year ago, I did this form of therapy called I don't know some, like light therapy. I can't remember the initials at the moment, but I did it and it did work and it was amazing and I walked and it took me like three to four sessions to like figure it out. And I figured it out and it wasn't me, it was my mom and I literally figured it out like in a session and it was like lights were on and I knew every detail and the therapist was like are you going to tell her? And I'm like no, and I didn't.
Speaker 2:I didn't for a while and then I finally did like six months later she was just in a good spot and I was just like hey, listen, I went through this therapy session and I was concerned that I was always like molested or raped, like I just have this feeling. I can tell you like the room, I can tell you that I can hear it like, but I don't know details and it was actually my dad and he came home and did that to her and I was in the house. Your biological dad, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you witnessed it. I must have Because, if you remember it, you probably witnessed it. Yeah, how did you feel after your session? Free? Did you feel free that it wasn't you, or just free that you?
Speaker 2:I felt free that I got closer and then I knew the truth and I felt bad for my mom, like I really wasn't going to bring it up and she's had a rough life, and I was just going to let it go. And the therapist was surprised. He's like really. And I was like, yeah, I'm like I have the closure that I need. I just needed to know if it was me. And so I was okay with knowing deep down in my heart that that session cleared that for me. And then it was like six months later I brought it up.
Speaker 2:I was like brave enough, cause I don't want to put her backwards, I don't want to put her in a bad way. And so I was like, hey, if you don't want to talk about this, we don't have to, it's none of my business. And this was my mother's life and I respect that. And, yeah, I wasn't born into perfect conditions, but it was what it was and that's her journey, not mine. And I was willing just to be quiet and I had been like that my whole life, like my real dad, and I actually have never had a conversation about what I know. Okay, the last time he hit me I was 13 years old. My sister fell out of a wagon and he backhanded me so bad that, like I threw up everywhere. And so you have a sister, I do. I did not know this. It's been a few years. He walked out of my life when Abby turned 16.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:And I reached out to her and the stepmom I was trying to figure out what was going on. He promised her a car and then all of a sudden he reneged on it and was like I can't do it. And then I never heard from him. And so I was like reaching out and I was like what is going on? Like no one would answer me, no one would talk with me and he quit taking my phone calls. And it's been two years.
Speaker 1:So when did your parents?
Speaker 2:split up. Well, my mom I know my mom was remarried time I was five. She married my stepdad.
Speaker 1:Okay, who raised me? So she they split up. She got remarried to your stepdad now when you were five, but your biological dad was still around.
Speaker 2:Yes and no. He was like in Lansing. He drove some of my truck. So I did see him, like I remember, driving in the semi truck a few times and it was like the highlight of my life, like he had come pick me up on the side of the road because he couldn't get down our neighborhood so, like my parents would walk me down there. I probably walked myself, got in the semi truck and did a few routes and then he moved to Tennessee and that's where him and my stepmom had my sister Actually she was more in Lansing but they moved down there with my sister and that's where she was raised.
Speaker 1:Okay, so he had a kid with his yeah, so she's a half sister.
Speaker 2:And we weren't raised together. They didn't come back until God I don't know five years ago. Maybe it's been longer than that. You know me and my brain with time.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So now I like to forget.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:But he wasn't always around after you were five on and off. No, no, yeah, no.
Speaker 2:On and off yeah.
Speaker 1:And then you haven't spoken to him in two years.
Speaker 2:It's been two years. Yeah, he walked out and he did that when I was little, a lot Like he'd promised me gifts and then wouldn't come through with it, and then I wouldn't hear from him. And he struggled with his alcohol addiction, and then I wouldn't hear from him.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, everyone has their own demons and their own journey and I've always spent like I've always had the personality, just to kind of respect it. But maybe I should have been a little bit more bold to say, hey, I know what I know, and can you make it right? Or can you say you're sorry, yeah, right, or can you stop like ignoring me?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean.
Speaker 1:I can imagine how that made you feel Like being a teenager or being a young adult and your dad is not around, not paying attention to you, doesn't follow through had to be very sad and frustrating.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then so when he walked away again when I was 16, one, he always promised me things and never came through with it, right. So then when he did it to her, I was just like, are you kidding me? And I was a single mom, I was divorced, yeah, and I'm like in, her birthday was six months away and I'm like, how am I going to figure this out? And luckily my stepdad came through and gave her a car and it all worked out. And I feel like that's been my secret to life is that I just don't complain because it always works out. So if it always works out and something comes through, I just choose to look at the good. And so she got a car. It worked out. It wasn't what she wanted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is it ever the car we won at 16?
Speaker 2:No Good night. Especially this generation. They're like can I have a beamer? I'm like, girl, go get yourself a drink.
Speaker 1:Good job. Yeah, I had to borrow my parents' Buick Skylark, I think, is what I had when I was 16.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's awesome OK.
Speaker 1:So did your mom ever go to rehab? Did she ever try to get clean Like what was her? How was your relationship with your mom?
Speaker 2:My mom did get clean. It's been six years now. She went to rehab finally. I mean, she was in and out of rehab my whole life, ok, but this time it worked, yeah, and she yeah, so she's been clean. I actually it's a terrible story and I'll never forget it. But on December 15th I left her homeless. She checked out of the psych ward where I put her and she checked out and I was working hands on with the social worker and the nurses and doctors and stuff and they're like she said you'll put her up in a hotel and I was like I won't, she's got to finish the program and she wouldn't.
Speaker 2:And so they took her to a halfway house and I will never forget that. I laid in Abby's bed in a lie. That was probably the first bed to get to, where I just melted down and cried like a baby. And I remember taking her phone call and hearing all the crap in the background and just feeling awful, but knowing that if I stuck with it she would go in the morning. Right, and she did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sometimes you have to let them hit rock bottom, right.
Speaker 2:And that was her first like 60 day stretch or so, maybe 90. Yeah, because she didn't get out till December. Oh no, no, it was like the winter time, so.
Speaker 1:OK, I'm proud of your mom, me too.
Speaker 2:I mean that takes a lot.
Speaker 1:I mean an addiction is no joke, no, it was rough.
Speaker 2:So she married my stepdad, which got us out of Flint when I was five and we ended up on a nice home on the lake. And then at 12, she became sick, which that's when it started her pain addiction. She started with pills and then end up on shots and, yeah, I can remember having to hide them around the house because she couldn't get them. And at one point I think she took an obscene amount of demoral and so the front of her thighs are completely missing from being Like for giving herself shots Over and over dirty needles.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've revived my mom quite a few times.
Speaker 1:You've revived your mom a few times Mm-hmm, yeah, ok, so let's just stop there for a second. So reviving your mom, watching her go through that, you have to have some kind of feelings about that.
Speaker 2:We have a tough relationship. Yeah, Thank God my brother didn't have to endure that. My brother they adopted when I was 10. And so I shielded him from all of that. So I basically raised him because now my mom was like a complete addict. She wouldn't leave the room Like I was doing everything with that boy. And that's why Dante and I are so close, like we're best friends, to this day. I would die for that kid, and he knows it.
Speaker 1:And so what was going on with your stepdad? Did he know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like she was an addict before they got here, oh God yeah, and he did the best he could. But he also had to find an outlet to survive, and so his outlet was hockey five nights a week. Drinking affairs Gotcha Very toxic relationship, oh yeah. He checked out too. Yeah yeah, he lost his wife, and she was a beauty queen.
Speaker 1:Well, so are you. So we're just seeing where you get it from.
Speaker 2:She still is beautiful, the picture on the mantle. She's done, she's beautiful, yeah, she's a beautiful woman and she's overcame a lot, so that I'm proud of her. You know my heart. I'm not here to knock anyone or to make anyone feel bad about their choices in life. Life is hard and we all stumble and all make mistakes. And was there parts of my life where I wish I had a different upbringing? Sure, of course, especially with my heart and family. And I'm pretty quiet and I feel like our journey is what makes us, oh, 100%. You know what I mean. So if my journey wasn't that, maybe I wouldn't be as sensitive as I am, maybe I wouldn't be as loving as I am.
Speaker 1:Right, so do you have to have some boundaries with your mom now?
Speaker 2:So we don't have a good relationship and we have a decent one, better than it was ever after she became sober. That helped a lot. That's why I was saying thank God for my brother. He does better with her because that wasn't his life, yeah, and she needs him because I can't do it Like it's very hard for me. She still makes tough decisions that I don't agree with, and so I have to separate myself and try to support her from afar and just know that he's got her back and that I mean he would let her move in. Oh, ok, well, I mean we would kill each other, yeah, I mean there's a good 10-year difference.
Speaker 1:So he was pretty young, while you had the majority of what was going on with her, and then when she did get sober, he was older and got to see more of that side of her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but he was still young, like I remember. He graduated high school and I came home and did the open house. Like I had put it on.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like I was still that mom role. She just was going through the divorce with my dad and she brought like all of them, stepdad OK. She brought all her like bar boy friends over and at the open house. Oh, I was hot, yeah. But now looking now I can't judge at all, because now I know what that hot mess season feels like after the divorce, and she was married for 20 plus years too, so she was entitled to her hot mess post-divorce era too.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I don't know, I don't know if I agree with that for her.
Speaker 2:But it is what it is, I couldn't have changed it. And it was a great party and my brother had a good one and yeah. So then all of his parties end up to be here as birthdays and as graduations. And you know me, I still spoil yeah, still, my baby brother.
Speaker 1:OK, so you graduate high school Barely and I mean barely Well, considering what was going on at home, that's still a pretty good accomplished accomplishment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I had to go to community college for a semester. Okay, I went and I got a four point. Nice, I know right, smarty, uh-huh. And then I applied to state and I got in Michigan. State yeah, michigan State and I got in and then I had an amazing GPA at state.
Speaker 1:What was your? Where were you going to major in Family and Child Ecology? Of course, shocker.
Speaker 2:I either wanted to raise babies and do like preschool daycares or I wanted to own nursing home. So I love the young and the old. It's the in between I really don't like. The in between are all the fucked up people, but I love the young and the old give me, the babies and the elderly, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was a. I went through the nursing program for a long time and worked as a Sina, okay, and that was like my heart. I started that at like 15 years old, okay.
Speaker 2:So you're at Michigan State. Yes, killing it. I was doing so good. I was so proud because I barely graduated high school, so I was a fascinating to me, like how could I be smart? Right yeah, but I was naturally smart and.
Speaker 2:I just had to apply myself and get out of a bad environment. Right, and my senior year, I came back that summer to work my one and only job that I had for a very long time, from 14 to 21. Spring Men's Country Club. I was the pro shop girl. I was a say were you the cart girl? No, I was the pro shop girl. Pro shop girl Yep, I made fabulous money there and was great, great friends with the owner, the pro shop guy. What do you call him? Oh, golf, pro, golf, pro. Him and his wife. They literally like took me in, like I remember graduating high school and her like helping with my open house, her bringing the cake, and like had babysat their babies, like they were like a second family to me.
Speaker 1:So you had a lot of support that wasn't family I wouldn't say a lot, but I remember them Some people.
Speaker 3:Some people yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah. So, and then so my senior year, I came back to work at Spring Meadows and for like the summer. Yeah, so, so yeah. I came back that summer and was working in the pro shop. Let's see, I would have been 20 and my ex-husband walked in and swiped swept, swept, love. At first sight he didn't swipe, yet we didn't do that back then.
Speaker 1:He knocked you off your feet Like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:he was good at what he did and he me started his lovely manipulation. Back then Commenced my parents that I did not need to return back to school.
Speaker 1:So you saw him, you guys met in the pro shop and did he ask you out that day or did that come later?
Speaker 2:No, yeah, he did, and I had a boyfriend of like two years my college boyfriend. So you broke up your college boyfriend.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that night To go out with Mr Right.
Speaker 2:Yep, this guy, that was like.
Speaker 1:Former Mr Right.
Speaker 3:Probably the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, yeah, so you guys have a date.
Speaker 2:He's a really good con artist. I will say that, like he's good at what he does, I'm not kidding.
Speaker 1:Okay, we'll get into that a little bit deeper.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:So you guys have your first date. Where did you guys go? What did you do? Do you remember?
Speaker 2:It was the pro are the invitation that he was in had like their big fancy dinner and I've never been to it and I had to ask my boss. I was like he's asked me to go, can I go? And he's like I don't care. And these, this group of people, were very protective of me. This was my first job at 14 years old, so these like old men there loved me. Yeah. So everyone was so surprised. I looked so beautiful and I went and he ended up winning like a raffle, and my boss at the time was like that lucky son of a gun, he's got our Melanie as a date and he just won the raffle. It was like a cute moment and that was it. And then he convinced my parents that I wouldn't have to return back to college and that he would be saving my dad $30,000. And that's, I would be fine. I never have to work and it was God's plan for me.
Speaker 1:So that summer I mean we're talking like June, july, may, june, july, pretty much. Yeah, you guys pretty much fall in love Three months. He's whatever, then tells your parents, convinces your parents. How did he convince them? Just like the money some money factor, and so was he older than you Six years, so he was six, six years old, Own his own business.
Speaker 2:had own his own home.
Speaker 1:So he already kind of had a business, he already had a home and said she hasn't needed to go back to school.
Speaker 3:She's gonna take care of her.
Speaker 2:Yep Bought me a car, brand new car. Like he knew what he was doing, like he was grooming me, as they call it. Like bought me clothes. I remember him buying me thousands of dollars of like business clothes and me not even being a business woman.
Speaker 2:But he was. He wanted me to look this part, that I wasn't Okay. And now I figured out. As you look back you're like, oh my God. And then you know, after the doors and stuff, my mom was like that was our first red flag. Was him now allowing you to go back to school?
Speaker 1:So would you say that the first kind of red flag is love bombing?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, narcissistic men. That is the very first thing they will do, and they are on their best behavior in the beginning.
Speaker 1:They look like angels, so describe love bombing to our listeners who may not know what that is.
Speaker 2:Got it sucks. Love bombing is like. Narcissistic men are like on their best behavior when they first come around Like so they're like perfect, gentlemen buying gifts.
Speaker 1:They're vermin your parents that he is going to take care of you.
Speaker 2:Okay, so he can, and they look for women who are insecure and pass need rescuing Okay.
Speaker 1:Yep, so he, you don't go back to school then?
Speaker 2:I don't know I was when you were going through all this. I was trying to remember I feel like I had. I went back one more semester and so I must have did a fall semester, because I remember quitting the winter semester because then we got engaged in the summer. Okay, so dated about a year and got engaged and then got married three months later.
Speaker 1:Dang through. Put a wedding on in three months. That's beautiful wedding to impressive Thanks. How many? Okay, so you guys get married. Do you move into his house with him? Then His parents wouldn't let me, his parents wouldn't let you move in after you were married. No before.
Speaker 2:Okay, which is a fun fact. Down looking back, his dad was a big controller, even over his kids now and still is, and I mean, he was 26 years old, owned his own home and his parents were telling him she may not stay the night. I remember staying the night one time and his dad driving by and like us getting the wrath that you were there. I saw her car and then drive way and you guys are sinning and oh, was they very religious? Or oh, yeah, they were very religious. That's where he got it from.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you get married, you move in. He's Prince Charming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I try to commit suicide three months later.
Speaker 1:Three months into it. What happened and why? What started to happen?
Speaker 2:Because he must have started changing and controlling and I freaked out Okay, so how did he start controlling?
Speaker 1:I just like I didn't have a say and I couldn't be in checkbooks and so you couldn't see the finances, so he wouldn't allow you to know what your financial situation was. Correct.
Speaker 2:I had like no, like back then, like I first got married, so I was like so excited to have a five year plan, a 10 year plan when to plan for kids, and I couldn't, I couldn't have a say, and I remember wanting kids right away, and he said no, no, like he was just this is, I'll let you know when it's time type answers and did he let you have a job.
Speaker 1:No, no job at all. No, so stay at home, wife.
Speaker 2:Yes, I had to cook and clean. I remember my first soup had like tons of bones in it and I'm like ripping on me for years about it. Okay, I was probably trying to kill him, okay, so he starts to change once you're married and you're living together.
Speaker 1:So he's controlling the finances, telling you he doesn't want you to work controlling when you're going to have kids.
Speaker 2:So so I end up. So I end up going through that, and then I end up getting going through counseling, serious counseling. The counselor was, like, do not get her pregnant. Like if you get her pregnant it's going to be worse. And I actually got pregnant on Christmas morning and it was my saving grace. It's like what saved me, like I felt so much better. My hormones were great, I had something to live for it, something to work for. I had something for me, right? Because now everything was stripped from my life.
Speaker 1:So do you think that, oh, let's just take step back, because I know some people are having questions, because I have questions. Okay, so did he start speaking negative to you? Because I know you said before he started speaking, like fear over you, like you're not, you can't do that, you're not smart enough, type stuff which led to you wanting to commit suicide three months later?
Speaker 2:I know, I think it was. I would say it was more of the control and how he spoke to me. Okay, um, yeah, and it's hard to look back. One of the things is that you don't remember.
Speaker 1:Okay, so he was very emotionally abusive Okay so I remember, so what happened when you tried to commit suicide. You try to do it at home, to try to do it somewhere else.
Speaker 2:At home. He had guns and I was trying to figure out how to go to him loaded and stuff.
Speaker 1:Did he find you no?
Speaker 2:I ended up calling one of his cousins, jen, great friend of mine still, and I said this is where I'm at, I don't know what to do, and she came and got me. Okay, so then I think I went to the hospital and got checked in and yeah, and then went to therapy and they're like, don't leave her alone, and went through all that.
Speaker 1:So how far between the therapy that you got pregnant Ten days. So you came out of therapy. They told her, told him, like don't let her do all this, and then, bam, you got pregnant on Christmas day. Yeah, or you found out you were pregnant.
Speaker 2:I got pregnant on Christmas day and found out a few days later and I remember like getting the test and like being so excited and like showing him and he was so angry and me being so sad because it was like such a dream of mine.
Speaker 1:Because it wasn't on his terms that you got pregnant.
Speaker 2:Exactly. He couldn't, he didn't control it, so he was very angry, got over it and then I had my son in September and two years later I had my daughter in September. They are born a day apart, two years exactly. So I tell everyone, I do one thing a year on Christmas morning. That's it just one day. And then by, so, by 23, I was done having kids and so he got vaccinated, vaccinated or.
Speaker 1:Jesus Vasec to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he got a vasectomy when I was pregnant with Abbie.
Speaker 1:So he was like we're only having two done had a boy and a girl were done.
Speaker 2:He was, he was done. I wanted 10 kids. You know me. Yeah, thank God, I didn't know A single mom was tired. So, yeah, I was done having kids at 23. And then my marriage continued on. For 16 years I was stay at home, mom class, classroom, mom coach. My babies were my life.
Speaker 1:Okay, they didn't allow you on social media.
Speaker 2:No. So what did you do For like finances if, when you had to go to the grocery store, he gave me $200 a week to live off of and I had to buy the groceries, his dry cleaning and anything that kids needed at school. What if it?
Speaker 1:was more than $200 that week, I couldn't get it.
Speaker 2:He wouldn't give it to you, no, and at the same time he would have like company credit cards and just be racking up stuff and like buying like banana republic sweaters and stuff for him On the company, his company credit card.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So like I remember the year five was like a really Transition in our marriage. Like after year five it got really bad, like it was worse, how, how worse. Like no male came to my house Like he would stop having mail come. He'd say, like he just wants it to go to this office because it's easier. Everything stayed locked up in his office. I wasn't allowed to see anything because it was easier for him. And now we know why. You know, no, we don't know why, because you haven't told us yet.
Speaker 1:Well, we'll get there. So yeah, I wasn't allowed to see, I wasn't allowed to be on anything.
Speaker 2:I wasn't allowed to see anything. I remember like bribing him with sex every year. I'd be like let's go to a hotel, we'll have a weekend of, like amazing sex and we'll come up with a budget together. Yeah, and we'll look at the finances and. I begged every year. I remember every year in January I begged for this. So what did he do for business?
Speaker 1:He owned his. He was an entrepreneur. Well, his family owned a business.
Speaker 2:Okay, his, and I can't remember how that started, but his family owned a business and then he was part of that and then he started a software business and so at year five he decides that he's going. I still remember this gym, my house was out for sale and because this was supposed to be our starter home, okay, and the house was out for sale and we were moving, we're going to move too. I don't know if someone's going to be there. We're going to move too.
Speaker 1:We're in Fenton, we're looking everywhere.
Speaker 2:We're still around. Yeah, and I remember sitting on a couch I remember it was on that back wall and I remember the front door was open and I remember seeing the sign in the yard and I remember he was sitting to the left of me and him saying the realtor is going to come and pull out the sign because we're not selling anymore. And I was like why? And he's like because I'm going to start a company and I'm going to live in India half the amount of time. And I was like what do you mean half the amount of time? He's like well, like I'll probably be going every other month.
Speaker 1:To the country India. Yes, okay, yep.
Speaker 2:And I was like I remember just sitting there, being like, oh my god, like I was already so scared, and I mean the amount of fear that man has already established in my soul. When he first left, I remember being in my bedroom, afraid to be alone, and my church friends would come over here and sleep in the living room.
Speaker 1:So was the fear about. Did you have many friends in that first five years? To control who your friends?
Speaker 2:absolutely and I was. I remember praying for friends and him even manipulating that. I remember coming home after having my son and my drugs being up there in that cabinet and one of my church friends coming over and she would die to know because they chose his side after not that they chose, just chose aside, but they chose him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we talked about that in the last episode that people naturally pick aside when you go through a divorce. So they naturally picked his side, him. Her husband and him were friends, but anyways, I had my drugs from my surgery and he convinced me she took him. She brought over food after I had a baby, okay, and he convinced me that she stole them. So that told us that he was on drugs then.
Speaker 1:So he took your pain medication from your C? Do you have a C-section?
Speaker 2:I didn't have a C-section, but where he was born in 20 minutes and I ripped to the fourth degree and had no drugs, oh shit.
Speaker 1:Oh shit, Ow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, good times. So yeah, good times. We needed a lady.
Speaker 2:We needed a little relief after that Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so he's also secretly on drugs while these pain pills.
Speaker 2:Oh, he definitely was. I remember one time me being so scared I don't know if the kids were born yet or not, but I called his dad and he was passed out in the laundry room and I thought he was like dead. And I called his dad and his dad came over and we like dragged him out of the laundry room and I remember being like so brave but so scared and I got his backpack. He had this secret backpack that I couldn't go in. Like he carried everything in it, like all of his medications, guns, paperwork, everything and it's like his freaking go bag. Yeah, it was. And then I found a bunch of pills and I remember having them like scattered out in front of his dad and me being like what is this, what are these? And counting them, and it triggered me because it was deja vu with my mom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it was like nuclear shutdown for me. Then it was like just shut up, get through this Like I did in high school, get your babies raised. My goal was to make it to Ricky was 18. So I literally shut up and I didn't say another word after that.
Speaker 1:So were you afraid that you couldn't trust other people, because that's why he told you, because he said that she had stole pills, but it was really him.
Speaker 2:It's just a. It's like a level of being brainwashed where you don't know what's right or wrong and you're so confused in life you you can't figure anything out anymore. And I remember like at 30 years old I had a brain scan scan I literally was convinced I had Alzheimer's at 30 years old because he had mind fuck me so bad. And I went and I did it. I convinced the doctors. I was like you don't understand. Like he'll tell me something and I don't remember. And he's telling me I did these things and I don't remember. And he's telling me we went somewhere and I don't remember. And the doctor was like okay, we'll do it. And they're like nothing's wrong with your brain.
Speaker 1:So he would tell you things that you supposedly did, but you really didn't do. But then he told you that oh, you don't remember, we actually did that and you didn't really do that. Yeah, wow, okay.
Speaker 2:Um, and then, like when the kids got older, I remember like probably the last five years of our marriage, he would pour me a bath every night in a glass of wine. I had no choice, it was like it was done. It was where he was treating me like he has been on everything. Like look how amazed I am as a, as a husband, and remember a couple of times drinking a glass of wine, feeling like I shouldn't feel this way after one drink of one glass of wine.
Speaker 2:And figuring like assuming that either he drugged me or he put vodka in it. There's something heavier than just wine, and that. Okay, and that's what he did in order to shut me up every night or not to shut me up because by this point I'm still quiet because I just wanted to get to Ricky being 18. He got me away from him so that he could sit out here and drink heavily, so then I would get out of the bathtub and be exhausted and then just go to bed, and so then he would sleep in the living room and probably drink whatever he drank, which at this time I did not know this, yeah, it wasn't till years later.
Speaker 2:I was putting away the Christmas decorations and Ricky and his friends were here. They were 15, he was 15 at the time and I asked the boys to come up and help me to put the Christmas tree in the attic, and so I was doing this and it was like God just said look in the golf bag. Look, I heard it clear as day in my head look in the golf bag. And I was like huh, and I remember standing in the middle of the garage with tons of Christmas boxes, thinking, okay, this is just weird. Like I know, I just heard what I heard and I opened like a first zipper and I was like there was nothing and I was like, okay, I'm obviously losing my mind again. Great yeah.
Speaker 1:Now I'm hearing voices.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awesome, like goals. And then I opened the second zipper and there was body armor bottles. Body armor is like a Gatorade.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:He drank a lot of them. There was like three of them in there and I was like, oh, once again I'm not finding anything important. Body armor, he drinks it. There's a body armor in every bedroom of this house and I happened to look over and there was a body armor and a sink and I was like, look at there, even in the sink in the garage For some odd reason. Now I went over and opened it and smelled it and it was vodka.
Speaker 1:Oh, so he had put the vodka in the body. Armor bottles, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's how he hid it all those years. I had no idea. I thought it was. He was hydrating.
Speaker 1:I'm like boy, you are super hydrated. A thousand times every day, all day. Nope, fuckin' vodka it was yeah. So when he went to India and was going back and forth, did you feel a little bit more control to yourself, or was it still like?
Speaker 2:Yes, because that's when I had the balls to get on Facebook. Oh, okay, oh, that's right. Yeah, so you got on Facebook, I created my own page and put my babies up there and had friends, and then came home and I just got the wrath of it.
Speaker 1:And I had to leave it.
Speaker 2:So you figured it out that you no, he came home I was like I was so excited. I was like, guess what I did? I got my own Facebook page. He's like yeah, no, you're not going to do that. He's like that's how people have affairs. And he's like you can't be on social media. You'll find somebody, you'll have an affair. You're a cheater Like you. Just that's why I've said your hard time on social media.
Speaker 2:So he was engraved in my brain that it was the devil that you were going to cheat on him by doing that, yep, I'd meet somebody.
Speaker 2:That's how people have affairs, it's how marriages fail. And so I had to delete it. And I remember being so mad because it was one more thing I had to hide because everyone was like, why aren't you on anymore? We loved seeing you and the kids. And I was like, oh well, I just found it wasn't for me.
Speaker 2:Just like when he made me tell the neighbor that the dog wasn't allowed over here because it was humping our dog. Well, no, it's because our dog kept pissing on him every time he got pissed. Yeah, so she ended up hating me over that. Dude, dogs know. Oh, he, dogs can tell. His name was Rudy, right, was it Rudy? Oh, he hated Rick. He'd come over and he wasn't neutered, yeah. So the neighbor at one point was like I'm so mad at me because I was like hey, your dog can't come over here anymore. She's like why? I was like because it's humping my dog. And the vet said it's not allowed. And really it was because the dog kept peeing on my ex-husband and he wasn't neutered. So he'd come over and like lift up his leg.
Speaker 1:Way to go, rudy, I know Way to go. I think I secretly, like, loved it. So do you feel like being emotionally abused is harder to see for people on the outside? Where physical abuse right, at least bruises, at least scars you can, you can see it, but emotional abuse is hard to show. Well, feel like anybody in your family knew, or absolutely not.
Speaker 2:And you look back at my life and my first, first hiding, I guess I should say, is my family hid my mom's addiction. Nobody knew that, okay, and so that I was trained that you hid secrets and you covered and and I was definitely afraid of him.
Speaker 1:What do you think Would he tell you if he would do something to you if you like, did, said or said anything to anybody?
Speaker 2:No, no, you were just so brainwashed that you you don't think straight is the best explaining I can. How I can explain it. You just can't put it all together.
Speaker 1:So, but they so. He kind of broke you down to where you weren't confident in yourself, you weren't confident with your own thoughts. No, you were insecure. You had fear of repercussions from him about.
Speaker 2:oh yeah, I was stupid, I wasn't smart. I wanted to go to back to school at one point and it was. I wasn't smart enough. I'd fail, I'd lose our money, I'd waste our money. It was just. I mean, it was just the beat down from the beginning.
Speaker 1:Okay, so he spends five years back and forth in India and then when he comes back, it was 10 years 10 years 10 years, wow, okay, so 10 years. And then what was kind of the tipping point?
Speaker 2:Well, one of the things that like really bothered me is that we never traveled, and you know me and like I'm a big traveler, so I finally got him to take me and the kids to Disney World, because that was something like I always wanted to do.
Speaker 1:So you guys never took family trips, never, never.
Speaker 2:So I got everyone down there and I'm. It was a living hell. And at one point he was so awful and probably so high looking back now, right or drunk, I don't know, probably both he loses me. And so I remember I had to do everything, like I took care of this home inside and out, like cooked, clean everything. So I left to go get breakfast for everybody, which was like set it up at the restaurant, like go through the buffet, get everyone's stuff cut, everyone's pancakes, have his favorite drink, and he would just come down with the children, sit down and eat.
Speaker 2:So I'm doing this and he doesn't show up and I'm calling. I'm like where are you? I'm here. There's two restaurants in this damn hotel. Like how can you be lost? Yeah, well, looking back now, I think he did it on purpose and he took the kids somewhere, somewhere else, and they had breakfast together and he was like just eat there. And I remember being so livid. One because it was expensive. Yeah, one, I was probably two, I was embarrassed sitting there. Well, yeah, because you had a table full of food.
Speaker 1:And no family yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and by now I'm already done. Like this is at the end, like I'm at my breaking point. I remember getting into that room and being like what the hell is wrong with you. Like you are a smart businessman, right, because I'm already brainwashed to think he this is the smartest man on the planet. Right, I'm like you are a smart businessman, how can you not figure out what restaurant in him? And I remember him looking at me and me thinking this man's lost his mind, like he. I remember thinking he just looked dumb, like he couldn't put it all together and and he was probably high. So, yeah, so that was awful. We got back home and and then he also had his hammock campaign trip. So every year he would go with this guy on a hammock camping trip. I know process that, right? Yeah, people think thought they were gay for a long time.
Speaker 1:Yep. Where did they go Like here in Michigan, mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, two dudes on a hammock camping trip in Michigan.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm Living off the land, did they?
Speaker 1:go to? Did they go to Muskegon?
Speaker 2:Yep, they did. Oh no shit. Why is that where gay people live?
Speaker 1:Tell me Uh well, uh, muskegon is a very LGBTQ, friendly city. Oh, that's where that's where his friend lived. Oh okay.
Speaker 2:Well, this is what I love about my life, though, is there's always closure. I tell everybody that God always brings closure to me.
Speaker 1:I mean that that his friend, that I'm saying that his friend was, but I'm just saying it's a very old bin air Okay so so I wanted to go on a bear hunt.
Speaker 2:So I quit hunting. I hadn't hunted in 16 years, yeah. So now I'm like I'm starting to get the urge to live again and I'm like I'm going to go on the bear hunt with my dad. I want to bring our kids, I want you to come. I want to go on a family vacation. I want you to experience what bear camps like in this family environment. He wouldn't go, but he was going to go on his hammock trip. As soon as I got back, he said well, I'm not going, but when you get back I'm leaving with my friend to go on the hammock trip.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you went on the bear hunt with your dad except dad, yep.
Speaker 2:And I remember loading my truck up at the time I drove a truck, of course, you know, because I was a badass, right. I load up the kids and I remember I still remember to this day backing out of the driveway knowing I wasn't coming home married. And I knew, I knew it and I pulled out and I thought I'm not coming back. And I got into Canada and I went through the bear hunt and I didn't tell anyone yet and it was the last day my dad came in. At a time he had a girlfriend who didn't like to hunt it wasn't very outdoorsy and he came in and asked her if she wanted to go with him to take down his stand. And he was. She was like no, hell, no, I'm not going back out in the woods, right? So I was like hey, dad, I'll go. And he was like all right. So we load up, we go out and we've got to take down, you know like five stands and then come back. So it takes a long time.
Speaker 2:And at one point I remember saying dad, I need to tell you something. And him being like what you know, like what you want to say another day, you want to go fishing, like what you know, I was like my marriage isn't what you think it is. And I will never forget him pulling over that truck on the side of that dirt road in Quebec and his little Italian boy saying what, what do you mean you're, what do you mean you're? Your marriage isn't what you say, it is, yeah. And me going. He's going to be so mad and so I said, well, let's start with. His family's been suing us for the last five years. We haven't seen any of his family.
Speaker 1:His own family was suing him, suing you guys, suing him, yeah, and they hadn't spoken to his family, my kids haven't seen them.
Speaker 2:We haven't been to any holiday parties, Okay, and I was so brainwashed by this point like I was convinced that they were the problem and he wasn't so. Did you know he was being sued? Oh yeah. The paperwork would come to the house. I wasn't allowed to see it, okay.
Speaker 1:And then. But he had manipulated, you'd think in it was all them, oh they were jealous of him because he was so smart.
Speaker 2:They were jealous of this because he had so much money.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and all this went on. So I told my dad like hey, listen, this has taken place. No male has ever come to my home. I've never seen a checkbook. I need help. Like this is bad, like and no one's going to believe me because I haven't said a word for 16 years, I haven't worked in 20 years. What am I going to do? Yeah, and he's like All right.
Speaker 2:So I sent him back in the first thing he went to. He went to his family and his family said everything she believes is right and she's been lied to, she's been manipulated and her gut feelings are accurate. And I said Okay. So I went to him and said Listen, because this is how loyal I am still, I know you and I've talked about this and you're like Wow, why? And I'm like I don't know, like I'm just a loyal person. I never wanted to divorce. Like, really truthfully, the only reason why I got a divorce is because I was so afraid I was going to go to jail too for the shit he did, that I didn't want my kids to have two kids, two parents in jail.
Speaker 1:So did you? Did he ever make you sign anything? He had my e-signature, oh, so you didn't know what the hell he was signing.
Speaker 2:Oh girl, I've never seen taxes Okay so, I'm filing for divorce and never have seen taxes. And I've ever seen a checkbook, okay so dad comes back, says everything is true.
Speaker 1:The family says everything is true. You, I know you. You did want to divorce, so do you go to him with this information?
Speaker 2:I did and I was like, hey, listen, this is what I know. Of course he lied about it and I said I will give you two weeks to tell me the truth. If you tell me the truth I will stay Okay. And he wouldn't. And I went and filed like the following week and he made my life such a living hell that Abby and I had to leave. I tried to get my son to go, but my son wouldn't come with me.
Speaker 1:We're going to pause and because I know this has been a lot for you, because we're going to get it into your divorce and your divorce story. But I just want to say I'm very proud of you for being brave and telling your story right now, because I know that's hard and being an emotionally abusive relationship for that long I could not even imagine because I have not been through that. But I just want to say, like you're a very strong woman and if you were going to say to anybody that's in a situation right now, what would you say to them?
Speaker 3:I would say get out, just get out. Call, get some help, find a friend and be brave enough to know you can survive alone. I hadn't worked for 20 years, I was uneducated Abby and I lived off $18,000 that first year and I made it and I kept this amazing home and I've kept our lifestyle and I put her through private school and I figured it out and I promise you, if I can figure it out being as broken as I was, you can figure it out too.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. All right, El Papers. We're going to continue this next week, so stay tuned for part two.