Bestselling Author Stephen Mansfield - The Dangers of Marxism and How Faith Can Lead a Nation

Stephen Mansfield is a NYT Bestselling Author with over 30 books under his name. He has written on topics such as religion, history, manhood, politics, and more. Stephen was a pastor at Belmont Church in Nashville, TN for 22 years before launching his career as an author in 2002 when he wrote "The Character and Greatness of Winston Churchill".

He first rose to global attention in 2004 with his groundbreaking book "The Faith of George W. Bush," a bestseller that Time magazine credited with helping to shape the 2004 US presidential election. The book was a source for Oliver Stone’s award-winning film “W.”  This groundbreaking book led to a string of influential works over the next two decades. 

Mansfield wrote noted studies of American soldiers at war, Barack Obama, Abraham Lincoln, the Guinness brewing company, Pope Benedict XVI, Winston Churchill, Jesus Christ, Oprah Winfrey, the Kurds, and modern men. Mansfield’s 2008 "The Faith of Barack Obama" was another international bestseller.

In May 2021, Stephen was named a Senior Fellow of Public Leadership at Palm Beach Atlantic University where he teaches and coaches current and future leaders. He is also a Senior Fellow at the Institute for Faith and Culture and an Ambassador for the Center for Christian Statesmanship. Stephen and his beloved wife, Beverly, split their time between Nashville, Tennessee, and Washington, D.C.

In Episode 33 of The Ed Clay Show Ed and Stephen sit down to have a conversation about the past, present, and future state of our political culture in America. As a child Stephen lived in Berlin during the Cold War, giving him a unique perspective regarding how political systems shape quality of life. Listeners will gain a unique perspective themselves on where our country came from, where it is now, and where it may be heading if we don't correct course. 

Enjoy Episode 33 of The Ed Clay Show with Bestselling Author Stephen Mansfield!

#americanhistory #americanpolitics #bestsellingauthor

Links for Stephen:
https://stephenmansfield.tv/

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Timestamps:
00:00:00 - Living in Berlin During the Cold War, Neo-Marxism, Polarization of Culture
00:09:10 - The Oppression Olympics, Equity vs Equality, Good vs Evil 
00:18:46 - Immigration, Living in D.C., Term Limits
00:28:32 - Joe Biden, Writing a Book About Donald Trump, National Debt
00:40:34 - 2024 Election, Weaponization of The Department of Justice
00:44:32 - Writing A Book About George W. Bush
00:53:51 - Writing A Book About Barack Obama, The Importance of Faith

Transcript

Marxism has brought more Bloodshed certainly in the last centuries than any other single Force growing up behind the Iron Curtain what was that like I could actually look across a wall and see the Dismal dark broken down Eastern block and then just turn around and look back at the west and see the difference Prosperity happiness everything the most disappointing organization I've ever heard of is queers for Palestine let me assure you in most of the Middle Eastern countries you're dead I work a lot in the Muslim world and love my Muslim friends but you put another million Muslim immigrants in Europe rapes Skyrocket abuse of women skyrockets I've said this publicly in the Muslim world and they agree what do you think about the weaponization of the doj right now I think that's unbelievably dangerous you are moving very closely to being a dictatorial state near Nazis you're near the Communist parties of major Nations the dark days of the Russian Empire that is very serious stepen Manfield welcome to the podcast thank you man it's great to be with you yeah thank you um you know really interesting career as I was looking into you uh New York Times bestselling author uh you've written over 30 books from my understanding and uh uh you have a PhD in history is that correct yeah so uh a lot of knowledge and I'm really looking forward to kind of getting to know you here me too me too yeah so um you know where are you from you said you were uh came from a military family what was that like uh growing up in a military family yeah my father was an army officer he was a military intelligence officer so we lived mainly in Europe and uniquely in Berlin during the Cold War so I actually live behind the Iron Curtain wow and uh dad was on alert all the time he was special forces Russian linguist I mean he was the real Snake Eater kind of military so uh I had a very unusual upbringing grew up mainly with French German British youth you know and uh I I really appreciate that perspective yeah because growing up kind of behind the Iron Curtain I mean you were kind of there for a major piece of history and have a probably unique understanding of it what was what was that like uh what what did you really learn from that and how do you kind of kind of apply that to your philosophy now you know I'm really grateful for that background because I could actually look across a wall and see the Dismal dark broken down Eastern block you know communist territory and then just turn around on a riser and look back at the west and see the difference Prosperity happiness everything I'm not saying the West is perfect but right you rarely have most people don't have in their lives a line right right through the middle of a city where they can say that doesn't work and this does people are trying to escape over there and here they're you know wanting to drill down so it was profound for me and especially since I'm patriotic you know try to trying to I'm in DC to try to fix your government you know trying to make a difference but always in the back of my mind is what I've seen not work of Communism and oppression and tyranny and things of that nature uh is is it weird for you now looking at Society especially like Jin z um you the protests let's call them the pramas protest at the college campuses and really pushing uh this communist idea uh openly yeah it really is a shock to me I mean I there's a lot of blame to go around you know the schools universities our culture what have you but you know I'm old enough to have seen communism fall and to have the conclusion well that's over we had that experiment we had the stalinist experiment we had all that kind of thing and it didn't work so while we got to find some new models that well if you don't teach a generation what the truth is yeah and they get a little bit older I know I'm sounding like the old man here well then they're on campuses chanting Marxist slogans and down with Amer America and then of course we can get into the Israel thing and um the fact is they just haven't been taught they just don't have the examples and so they're freely going neo-marxist without without realizing the consequences whereas Marxism has brought more Bloodshed uh certainly in the last centuries than any other single Force so it's it's a sadness they don't know it and I'm hoping we don't have to live through it again I mean do you think that that was like an intelligence operation maybe from other countries like bringing that those ideas into the the colleges and through the professors to teach a generation I don't think they're forward influences I do think it's and I'm not trying to be hardcore right-wing here but uh I do think it's left-wing professors you know a university I I'm I'm part-time part of a university and a university is in a unique place it it's not necessarily checked by the real world right like if you're in their business school that can get real academic and you're not really out there on the market having to deal with the thrust in the Parry of whatever the Market's doing same thing with intellectual and political ideas so you can be in a university I mean some of the craziest ideas in history have sprung up from universities because they're not NE they're a little isolated from The Real World so I think it's left leaning professors kind of 60s professors you know the Boomer has kind of grown up and uh you know now they're the chairman of those departments I also think a lot of the anti-israel stuff and a lot of the neomarxism does come from foreign students foreign professors we know for example a lot of what's going on right now are international students and I love the Middle East do a lot in the Arab world I'm not I'm not a bigot against it but there's no question you see the crowds chanting we love Hamas missiles you know that is for the most part uh Middle Eastern students who are leading American you know Suburban kids astray yeah and you you had posted something and I'm going to paraphrase but it it basically said that you know you can support Israel you know acknowledge that Hamas is a terrorist organization have empathy and sympathy for the Palestinian people um and you know have these different kind of logical ideas uh that I think Society right now at least they want you to believe that we're we got to be put into to these boxes yes and and um why do you think that is and how do you think that we can kind of open people's minds to you know there can be two multiple truths at the same time you know somebody said once that real intelligence is being able to hold two competing thoughts in your mind at the same time yeah and our social media our current Society the tensions between Generations they cause people to isolate Silo you know all the terms that we use these days but the reality is I'm actually I'm not saying I'm the only one but certainly I'm out there in the field in the Middle East seeing these things and it's it's it's not black and white it's Shades of Gray right I'm pro- Israel I am and I think that Israel's way overdoing it with the violence against Gaza I understand they're mad about the 1400 people horribly murdered on October 7th um but you have to be proportional that's the Christian just War theory that I happen to subscribe to you have to be proportional in your response and so they they've way overdone it even if we use the 30,000 number which I think is oros numbers I think it's less than that but whatever too many people have been killed tooo much damage has been done it's going to take a generation or two to restore what's been lost we didn't have to do it that way well here I am pro- Israel criticizing Israel I thought that was what loyal friends did right that's what good ideas should do and so I I sympathize with Israel but uh I'm just aware that our the youth on the campus is just don't have any idea really what they're talking about in fact one of my favorite people is a um Israeli actress and activist named Noah tishi she'll go on the campuses and she's pretty and she's carrying a microphone they think she's CNN and she'll say what does from the river to the see mean they say they don't know what what who who who sponsors Hamas they don't know I she just goes through 20 questions before long you realize that somebody in the dorm said hey these guys are got to be protested there's a protest tomorrow too let's get out there and everybody filed out and they have really very little idea of what they're talking about so I appreciate their desire to bring social change sure but I say with all love they're idiots idiot means an unlearned one they're unlearning when it comes to the Middle East and it's we doing a lot of damage yeah I saw an interview with like a a a gaze for Palestine person and they asked the person you know do you realize that if you were in Palestine before uh you know this this started that you you know would be killed or stre yeah exactly and they're like oh no is that right and the lack of knowledge from this person that's protesting it was astonishing really yeah the weirdest the most the most disappointing organization I've ever heard of is queers for Palestine let me assure you and most of the middle Eastern countries you're dead yeah you walk down the street dress like they often do in our cities you're dead so I'm not saying that's right obviously what I'm saying is they clearly don't know what they're protesting it's because we've we've missed a generation of good transfer of cultural values well why do you think that we've missed that generation why why do you think that it was kind of skipped over I I really do think the Boomers uh cultural revolution 607s well-intentioned then they Silo in universities and most of them can point to a Prof who's taught them what they believe and it really is neomarxism it really is a view that if there's three of us in a room one of us has to be an oppressor and that's often not the case right I'm Native American you're not oppressing me we're both sitting here you know we can add 15 other people of different ethnicities uh you know there's not necessarily an oppressor in the room but history has to be looked that way somebody has to be the oppressor somebody has to be doing it to someone else everything has to be interpreted through that grid everything's gender everything's race well you don't get an accurate view of history and you certainly don't build a a just Society with that framework yeah I feel like Society right now is rewarding people for being oppressed it's like the oppression Olympics you know I'm more oppressed no I'm more oppressed question the reality is you think about like when we talk to uh underserved communities and we say oh you're oppressed or you're marginalized my concern always is by telling these kids those things what if they actually believe it because if they believe it then you know they're going to be that you know right and also there's a there's a view that people who are seriously oppressed don't have time to think about the Cosmetics right for example I live in DC part of the years you know and so we had the whole Redskins discussion about the football team but I listened to a chief say when he was interviewed he said look I've got poverty on the reservations I've got an educational crisis I've got Health crisis we've got you know gambling is the big salvation on the in reservation I don't have time to think about these kinds of things this is not important to me so here is a Cherokee Chief say and of course who's pushing the change of the name of the Redskins you know white liberals you know the Native Americans like I could care less let's get on with the health exactly exactly so I'm I'm not saying those things aren't important in some cases of course I know what [ __ ] means in the in the Native American history but I thought it was hilarious this Chief kind of looked and said I could I really couldn't care less let's let's do let's do meaningful things not just cosmetic things yeah I'm always taken back when I hear white people talk about some of these issues uh liberal white people and they're well intended but they're actually many times racist in saying it yes you're talking about like black people can't get IDs it's like what are you what are you saying right yeah like for example if if a free market is automatically bigoted against black people that's me saying black people can't perform at an equal level well they can just give them a Level Playing Field and to say otherwise is to is to label them all you know some kind of subpar so I I think there's a lot of Reverse Racism especially in the universities yeah what do you think about all the you know the the uh equality of outcome or the equality of opportunity that's just not reality that's again somebody sitting in a library somewhere thinking of these that's not the way it works you want equality of opportunity you can't guarantee equality of outcomes people are going to rise to their level you may be a better businessman than I am we may be in the same industry I'll Prosper to a certain level you'll do five times that amount nobody's being oppressed nobody's being you know uh mistreated it's just it's just the way that it is are people smarter people more gifted people who have six generations of wealth in their family and people who fell off the boat yesterday and are just now starting to build something and that's that is the way the world works and if we try to guarantee equal outcomes we're just going to impoverish everybody yeah absolutely I mean you see it with someone who moves to the country uh legally yeah and they you know the families get together and they pull their money and you know I I've seen uh this written I haven't actually found like a study that shows it but you know people that are immigrants coming to the country are more likely to become a millionaire than someone who was born here right and you know it makes sense because they see the American dream for what it is they weren't they're not being taught that you know there there's this oppression in America or there's this or that they're being taught there's unlimited opportunity exactly and they believe it they believe it yeah there's a doctor here in town you may be familiar with Ming Wang and he's brilliant and he's innovated a whole lot of lasc surgery procedures and what have and so he's Mega wealthy and I think he's he's first generation yeah well they've just done a movie about his life so he's gone from China Revolution you know having to escape that to America education to Mega wealth in stardom as a as a as a doctor in one generation well he's passed me up have I been oppressed no right he's actually a friend that I think the world of him but I'm just saying uh if you think that way you're just going to resent anybody who's got something you don't and that's that's going to kill our society yeah it's always interesting to for me to talk to people from China that uh live through the cultural revolution I've Got U a scientist that's on our Advisory Board uh who was uh assistant chief of infectious disease and imog genetics for the NIH brilliant brilliant uh PhD and uh you know hearing her stories of how you know basically they took the the higher ups in society and put them in the field working and it just you know you had what 30 million or so people that we know of uh died you know during in that and they really get the opportunity of America yes you know that American dream and I I feel like we got to figure out how to get that to the people that are actually born here right right foreigners tend to get that a little bit more quickly I work with the Kurds as you know I was just in Iraq a few weeks ago and uh I have actually met Kurds fresh from the fields fresh from the battlefields back when Saddam was oppressing them I mean blood on their on their clothing literally they're one generation in doctors lawyers shop successful shopkeepers because they lived over there they understood what America was couldn't wait to get here and when they did they understood it was a land of opportunity yes and they didn't resent their status at all they were grateful we took them in and so you're absolutely right there's a generation that's completely lost that born indigenously and if we don't reclaim that of course they're going to carry us astray again we'll have to relive some of these dark periods of History yeah you are a big supporter of the the Kurdish population I think Nashville has the largest amount of Kurds CDs of any city in America what's your background with that how did you come to support them you know I was here in Nashville in the 9s and just working with some organizations and uh helping organizations social good organizations and because there had already been Kurds here from the 70s the Kurds being very tribal they said basically Uncle Joe's in Nashville that's where we want to go and when the US was relocating them they just began to pour them into Nashville so we have about 25,000 Kurds now and they love America they love the American soldiers that liberated them they love our Pilots that you know flew the no fly zone that protected them um and they love the fact that we helped them but they because they come from sort of a middle eastern I I not being insulting to say this kind of a bizarre free market kind of situation they understood what America was and they got busy and they've prospered and they've done well they're they're it's interesting the Kurds really are the way we want the Middle East to go they are 95% Muslim pro Israel pro- free market pro- Amer I know Kurds Muslim Kurds who turn and pray towards Jerusalem not towards Mecca interesting uh many Kurds are Jewish by the way given their their history and so I think they're an amazing people and I think we we've got to really work closely with them because like I say I think they're they are the direction we want the Middle East to go and you wrote a book uh on I did it was called The Miracle of the Kurds yeah what what was that about well it was about it it started with the idea that the Kurds came here and I I got introduced to them but then I began to look at them worldwide you know the largest people group in the world without their own Homeland like we've said and they are people who are just doing amazing things around the world 35 million of them oppressed gassed mistreated by Saddam and here they are thriving everywhere they are in the world and I like again I was just in Northern Iraq krg that's the that's the Kurdish portion of Iraq and it's unbelievable they got they're hooked up to the NASDAQ they're building skyscrapers I mean it's when you give them some Freedom they'll take over the world and so I was impressed with them I'm also a scholar of Biblical history and so they they consider themselves the descendants of the ancient mes uh in the scriptures um their National anthy even says we are the me so people who are Bible readers will encounter them you know in the Old Testament and so I was fascinated by their history and it's amazing what they've accomplished really amazing um you know you do have a background you were a preacher um at Belmont Church yes I pedor Belmont for 10 years about 10 yeah 10 years um you know when I look at Society right now and i' I've gotten closer and closer to God the last few years really I was raised Church of Christ here in Nashville but kind of moved away uh from my faith a little bit my 20s had some doubts and uh it's come back really strong but you I look at society and it's kind of simple in a way good versus evil I mean do you see that Simplicity being shown more today than maybe 20 years ago yeah whenever you have a time in history where people are living out the implications of what they believe or living out their unrestrained lives which is kind of what's happening today you're going to see Good and Evil both starkly displayed yes so all you have to do is make a run on Twitter or X whatever you want to call it and you see these horrible videos people being time to be alive tragic but intriguing because we're going to see a real out andout contest between between good and evil they're not just going to be hidden in churches or hidden in their homes or doing evil undercover people are doing it right out on the streets and we're going to see what happens well I think it's interesting too that they what is what is good they're calling evil and what's evil they're calling good and so they're publicly doing these things that we know are wrong and evil yet they're saying you're bad for even saying that it's evil you're the evil one right to call anything evil is an evil in the eyes of a lot of people today right well also we're also going to see and this is I realize this is a little sensitive but we're also going to see um certain value systems lived out for example I work a lot in the Muslim world and love my Muslim friends please don't misunderstand but you put another million Muslim uh immigrants in Europe rapes Skyrocket abuse of women skyrockets I mean I'd say this with a 50 m of sitting right here in this room I've said this publicly in the Muslim world and they agree you're right that side of who we are we don't like but that bedeviling Europe I mean they're just look what's going on yeah Paris especially and so we're going to we're going to see as as when you have the restraints taken off you know again let's say all restraints legal and otherwise taken off of you and me we'll find out who we are yeah we're going to get drugged up and go rape everybody and Rob everybody are we going to live moral lives and and prosper and do good things for people and raise a family that you know extends for Generations what are we going to do we'll find out when the restraints are removed well and I think right now with the algorithm on the internet all the social media we're being fed uh what kind of they let's say they quotations want want us to think right like oh this is the way it is and this is right and this is wrong and I was talking to my business partner dri Perry about this and uh he's like yeah algorithm is the leader yes right now yes you know so who controls the algorithm has a lot to a lot to say with who's you know leading Society you are always looking in what someone thinks is your mirror yes right so I I've got that for example you know I do some searches for religious topics and what that and sometimes I get the most wacko religious stuff back because somebody thinks well he wants to see right uh something you know he wants to see something and it's ridiculous it's silly it's a caricature it's a film clip from a movie picking on religion but because it's religion they think I want to see it and so you're always looking in what somebody thinks is is your mirror and you got to change it you got to change it technically technologically but also watch what it is you're doing if you're searching for porn all the time then that's what's going to bounce back hey it's a reflection of who you are to some degree sure yeah what do you think right now because you're talking about what happened in Europe with the the the Muslims you know kind of overflowing right now uh what do you think about our our Southern Border in the United States and all the people that are just being L across right now yeah I I think I completely believe in Immigration I believe it's one of the great things about America I believe it has to be done right as Dennis Miller jok signed the dang guest book you know come in the right way right but no Nation can survive if its borders are removed and if people are flooding over MH um and so all the recent administrations have failed in that regard and we've going to have to get on top of that now we got to have immigration you know we don't have enough birth rate we don't have a high enough birth rate in the United States to replace our population so immigration is part of how we've thrived part of how we've grown we want that but both I tell you there are countries in Europe if they don't do something dramatic they will cease to exist in their traditional sense absolutely cease to exist we're far from that yet but it could still happen and we're laying the foundation for it and I got to tell you I'm stunned that our federal government hasn't acted absolutely stunned that's F I'm stunned yeah why do you think that's going on right now some people frankly believe that by letting immigrants in you eventually have voters for one party or the other there's no question that's part of the thinking okay because both parties are shrinking demographically if we don't have immigration but we've lost the sense that there's an American culture you want to integrate people into right you used to have to take an exam and you have to know who George Washington was what the first amendment was and what the Bill of Rights was and things of that nature uh now it's very quick in fact you know President Biden just naturalized about 500,000 people by decree now I'm not playing narrow politics with you no President should be able to do that there should be a process for it so we're in trouble we're in trouble if we don't close that and I think it's the wrong the wrongheadedness or the laziness of people in Washington and I I understand I'm not I'm not in any radical violent group but I certainly understand going down people going down to the Border protecting their property and you know trying to be some some kind of militia to keep that from happening because it is dangerous and by the way I lived in West Texas for about a decade and I'll tell you people people die yeah those folks not all of them obviously come across the border and they're they're in a Land of prosperity and they will kill and they will steal and it's it's it's vicious yeah I saw an interview with um some um people coming from Africa yeah and they were openly talking about being okay to rape women so that's and that was their culture from where they were where they were but you know hearing it was just like whoa they're just letting these people in the country no question I'll tell you what American women the average American woman is safer than she would be in almost any other place in the world yeah so I I I grieve the state of women because they are the one you if you have survival of the fittest who's going to hurt the most women men are men have got the physical strength to pull things off and the same thing is going on here immigration women are hurt bring people in from other cultures where rape is normal where women are oppressed where women are property women hurt and that's that's happening in our society honor killings in the Muslim world no question about that I can just murder my daughter if she misbehaves sexually that's that's going on in Detroit which is one of the most Arab intense regions of our country they deal with honor killings all the time really oh gosh I haven heard of that yeah do a do a Google search for honor killings and maybe put Detroit in there too um you know that's where some of the some of the folks who are Palestinians and what have you in Congress are from and sure you have a high concentration of Muslims especially traditional style Muslims not more westernized is in contemporary you will have honor killings wow and of wives of daughters of relatives it's considered part of the old school Islam hardcore Islam yeah no question yeah it seems strange that the the left to I'm not going to say they're more for women's rights because everything's a little crazy right now but the left who would completely be against the ideas of um you know Muslim men uh more you know tradition Muslim men are just encouraging all of all of them to you know come illegally you know at our Southern border yeah yeah and they just have no idea what I mean people just have no idea the price of this long term it's really it's really tragic I mean women I would have to say when I look at the college campus uh riots and protests and I see the young girls who are protesting I realize they're trying to protest about a war they just have no sense of the broader context right and they don't realize what they're what they're bringing in fact I know there is a situation we just recently intervened him where a girl started dating um an Arab young man from a certain country in the Middle East not realizing that he think she thinks this is the great love affair International Love Affair he's already got three wives back home if she marries him and goes back to his home she'll not be able to come back to the States this is this has been repeated time I mean film movies have been made about that Dynamic so they're just naive they're just naive there's a lot of there's a lot of that right now um you're in Washington DC you said you're doing some Consulting for different uh politicians and things like that what are you what are you doing with that how does that work well I have kind of an unofficial status as a diplomat I would I shouldn't even use that word just as as a guy who's friendly to the Kurds spend times with him for example I went back went to Iraq as I say a few weeks ago I was with the president of the country I was with the leaders finding out what's going on what are the challenges what's happening what's Baghdad doing to you because they they have this tension with the bag dead down on the south and the state department doesn't necessarily hear these things they don't believe them and so when I come back just because I'm in DC and I've got some friends who are congressmen and I sit you know work out with them and sit in the sauna with them or whatever I can turn to them and say look this is what I was told by soand so this is what I was told they're not they're saying that what you're being told isn't right would you check it out would you investigate this and so I can help move things a little bit more to I've learned that almost every nation that's really you know trying to get America's attention has got these informal people like me who are just friends they say hey would you mind would you mind talking to them next time you're having a h because we we're not getting anywhere with the state department and I have been able you know by God's grace to do some good and I I appreciate having that role I'm not paid I'm not a lobbyist it's just that I have other charity Works to do over there and then while I'm there we'll sit down have some food have some you know kebab and uh talk about what what what really needs to be changed in Washington because you know our congressmen and our Senators are good people but you know you can become a successful guy you know running a car dealership you get elected to congress doesn't mean you know anything about the Middle East I'm not putting them down I'm just saying I want to be that guy that can sayy I don't know anything about the Kurds talk to me and help them make good policy about the Kurds so you you said that most of the Congress and Senate are good people so you you're there you believe that most of them are good people I think they are serious Patriots I think there are good people now there are some who are just nitwits we we all know that some who've lied to get there some who are extremist weird you know I really almost hate America and ran for congress on that Vibe we know that and I don't need to name any names but I would say the among the people I know even if don't agree with them on whatever issues we might be talking about they're good people they're Patriots they love their country and they're trying to do good things now we got some problems in our laws you know I don't think congressmen should have to run for office every two years that means you swear them in tomorrow and on Friday you know they're having to run again uh that's just a waste of time we should change those laws we should change the law that allows one person to call for the speaker seat to be vacated one congressman and and lock the whole thing up for months so we've got some weird things like that but for the most part I think they're good people they're good people trapped in in a questionable system yeah but what do you think about term limits you think that'd be good to I do think term limits are best I believe in the cinna's vision from our early history this Roman Statesman you know who came in ruled and then went back to his farm that was always the idea of the founding fathers George Washington did it he resigned left the presidency went back to you know his farm and I I I believe in it very much so uh you know I'm going to mention Joe I'm not putting him down I'm not playing Naro politics 50 years in Washington DC 50 years how about some fresh ideas how about some youth I'm not trying to be aist um you've got people who have been there you know Edward Kennedy I could name 40 of them there for decades well wouldn't we have a better Congress I mean aren't you and I better for having our hands on the real world working in business whatever we're doing in media we work in business we have to figure out budgets and make things work in the real world wouldn't that make us better in Congress for 5 or 10 years and then we go home and go back to what we do uh I believe very much in term limits and I realize some people say you have ter term limits their elections but some of these guys have been there for half a century yeah and their ideas are old and Corruption does set in I think we ought to be asking how do people who make $200,000 a year become 2025 million people yes um so I'm not accusing Biden or anybody else of corruption but I I think we'd be better off if we had termal inage chess what is the you know the kind of the feeling on the ground in Washington uh about Biden like not the political pieces that are out there from both sides but like what is it kind of is is his brain there like do they do is he does he have dementia is that kind of like a yeah yeah yeah I don't know anyone in DC and I'm not I believe you should you know speak well of your leaders and be kind if you can so I'm not just gunning for him I don't know anyone in DC who doesn't believe that if he was being he was running for the first time tomorrow he he wouldn't qualify M um in fact there are a lot of people who think we ought to have given we have older folks in office we ought to have basic medical checks just basic cognitive right I wouldn't have any problem with that um but I don't know anyone in DC left right or Center who confidentially doesn't say absolutely he's got dementia and the only thing they put their hope in is that what you do is you build an Administration and the ad rtion runs the country yeah we we have a tendency to focus on the you know the imperial presidency as they call it the one guy but he's running thousands of people and other people are running thousands of people and he's more the figurehead most things are done for him but I will I can tell you having been in the Middle East which is a very Macho place you know very very focus on manhood every time Biden walks across the stage we lose we lose rank yeah we lose Prestige and I'm sorry to say it that way I'll probably be I'm hope hopefully one day I'll live till I'm 90 and I'll waddle across the stage that's I hope my my kids will be kind to me when I do but my point is that we're talking about the leader of the Free World at a critical time in history but it almost I I was going to say the other side maybe you're gonna say the same thing I've watched Trump go off script and lose it too so I'm not saying he's as far along as Biden but we' just got old older people in in in office and it's it's a it's a danger it is a danger yeah I think you know looking at at Biden it's it seems to me it's almost like elderly abuse I mean he he he doesn't move his arms when he walks it's a very um you know he looks like he has dementia and I feel bad for him because they're putting him up there uh seemingly as a prop and you mentioned uh you know you have your Administration I posted something last week that I kept for two years I didn't post it because it made me nervous because I was waiting for the rest of the mainstream media to do it and I'm I'm like okay this is almost my duty now to do this but there was a video of Biden in July 25th to 2022 that the White House put out and uh someone posted it on social media and I said actually there was one of my friends that shared a story and I wrote him and said hey that's a deep fake you know Biden didn't really say that don't you just FYI because I I'm not a Biden fan but I I don't like fake news to go out feel the same way and he said the White House put that out and I was like no so I go sure enough the White House put it out and I watched it closely I then I'm trying to prove myself wrong I run this video and it's talking about the Insurrection and it was it wasn't his voice and it was you know you could tell the eyes he blinked one time in the minute 57 clip that I put up and I ran it through a deep fake analyzer and it was a deep fake version of Biden put out from the White House and I'm I'm all for if anybody's listen first I've talked about it in the podcast anybody who wants to fact check it and please prove me wrong I'm not against it I I want to be wrong but I think I got to speak the truth now and um you know so that gu it has me so worried because if they're able to put an artificial uh version of our president out there no there's no question they can yeah I've actually been in an AI lab where they just just to demonstrate to me they took me and had me saying they were they were being ridiculous like you know I was I was trashing Jesus and I was pro- Marxist and I was you know I'm going to I said crazy things like I'm going a strip now but but if had you been watching it you would have thought well that is Steven Mansfield I mean I looked his natural as I look right now to you but the question I have about Biden is don't we have a deeper bench than that in both parties I mean don't you love it in the NFL when a quarterback maybe gets banged up a little bit they bring a guy off the bench and he goes even further and you're like man this is a team well I think it's an insult to the Democrats certainly and to our country that we don't have a deeper bench and I'll tell you the other thing it's also a tribute to the criminalization of politics to run for office today and I work with a lot of them that do you've got to have your whole family in Armor man I mean they are coming for you and they're not just talking about bashing you and talking about what you did in high school they're talking about putting you in jail yeah and um that keeps a lot of good people from running for office so we don't have very deep benches no that's that's absolutely correct you know I was I was uh kind of when I was looking into you uh I saw a C-SPAN interview you did probably I think it was 2017 about your book about Trump yeah and so I didn't support Trump in 2016 uh and when he got like my parents support Trump my business partners is fine I mean I have a lot of friends support Trump too I didn't support Clinton either by the way right me too but um you know my concern was his rhetoric was going to divide the country so much even if I agreed with what he was saying in general didn't agree with the way he was saying it but um that it was going to cause so much of a divide we weren't going to be able to to make it back and um you know you talked about that in that interview and in your book and I I like the assessment overall because it was logical you weren't throwing him under the bus but you were just stating these words are going to make a certain group of people feel that way right um you know writing that book you know what was that like and and what was the process of putting it out and doing the interviews and well it was fascinating because I I sometimes sometimes I'm too moderate for people right and and a little scolly maybe at times I wanted to write a truthful book about Trump it's neither Pro nor con and people are used to when they're dealing with political books to books that are radically pro or radically anti and what I was trying to show is why Trump got elected and the main reason he got elected he said in his inauguration I mean his convention acceptance speech he said I'm your voice he was the voice for a lot of people who did not feel represented in politics some evangelicals a whole lot of what I would call the Bubba vote by the way all of my cousins are B so I'm not being insulting I'm from a some some from a southern Georgia family and um people felt heard and and so the nastier stuff he said the harsher stuff the more violent stuff that offended you know Elite New York but these people said well that's how we talk around our breakfast table so this guy's finally talking our language this billionaire from New York is actually representing what we believe sitting around our breakfast table in Birmingham and that's why he got elected well same thing's going on right now you and I might find him irritating or disgusting or saying ridiculous stuff but a lot of America is saying that's who I am good better and I'm going to vote for this guy and by the way you know you and I are sitting here week before 4th of July in 2024 um if the election was held tomorrow Donald Trump wins Yeah well yeah and and I I want him to win now just because of of Biden uh and you know I look at the good versus evil thing and like I also heard you talking about you know from a Christian standpoint that's that's actually something that bothered me because I was thinking okay I was raised Church of Christ which is strict yeah and I saw the very same people that would have you know and I'm not knocking the church I don't mean that way but very judgmental towards you know dancing or this or that growing up yet a lot of those people were supporting him making excuses for the things that he were saying right and um you know that's it really you know took me back you know but now I don't feel like we even have a choice and I'm I almost feel like we're in a dog fight yeah and we've you know the the direct truth I would rather that be said than living in a complete lie yeah no I I hear you and and you know that has devastated churches that Dynamic you point at because you've got this church and it's you know urging a moral grid on on every all of its followers and all of its attendees and then suddenly we're all good with Trump of the you know porn stars and the whatevers and the youth are going what are you to of course youth are already a little moving away moving to the left politically and now these people just worship Trump the pastor is preaching about Trump and it's absolutely ripped up families and ripped up churches no question about it but you're right you know the the old saying is if you get in a fight with a pig everybody gets muddy but only the pig likes it well a lot of people who don't really like it are having to get into this election and back somebody they wouldn't have backed five years ago because they feel like the issues are desperate I mean he may be as one person said this is not me talking on television he may be a buffoon but at least he's going to be a buffoon about the right issues or he's going to do deal with the right issues and I'll tell you his his from the inside his administration was chaos turnover constantly you know records weren't kept we see what happened with secure files and all that kind of thing it's all going to happen again but some folks are like if he'll just put the right people on the Supreme Court secure the borders and smash NATO I'm happy and that's they're that simplistic about it so that may be the way the election goes well yeah and I I look at the debt right now um I mean what's going on with the debt and people there was actually this this complete propaganda that came out two days ago talking about how Trump had more uh debt than Biden but they were doing projections over 10 years the headlines were totally bogus and making people think that he raised the debt more than Biden uh and he almost did but then he had Co in 2020 he was on a really good track you know so it's it's all misleading but you know big picture you know for our national somebody's going to have to tackle it with $35 trillion in debt right now you got to deal with it got to deal with it if we don't we're done and and I will say I don't think I you got two the two people who take debt the least seriously are business people and politicians and we've got one running for president and the other running for president business people tend to think we'll grow our way out of this and so they don't sweat it too much and politicians of course just say Bal will never have to pay it back basically is what they're saying but it's becoming critical and by the way I hear a lot traveling in the capitals of the world I hear a lot of criticism about America and an unwillingness to do long-term deals with America I'm talking about very powerful Nations so we've got to get that straight yeah the the the debt is it's to me probably our biggest threat because you know the if interest rates are high you know debt right now about a trillion dollars a year just in debt yeah and um we had it tamed as recently as the Clinton Administration so this budget we can do this we can do this let's go absolutely yeah there's just not the will yeah there's got to be the will right I mean and and people have to understand it on both sides because you what you've seen is Republicans get in office they raise the debt Democrats get in office they raise the debt Republicans it's back and forth and two parties doing the same thing under different names exactly and that's that has been our Our Heritage for a lot of years yeah so you know with this election coming up um you know what's what's your what's your view on it what do you think is going to happen I think Trump's going to win uh I will probably hold my nose and vote for him to be frank with you I I I dislike a lot about him I am a Christian and so obviously I think I'd like for somebody to behave presidentially um but he'll bring good people into the government and I and I maybe a little bit more than some folks because I'm there in DC I see how an Administration is built and you got good people running programs and good can happen even if the head guy is a nitwit I don't think Trump's a nwit but you know some people have been so I I may I may just make myself vote for Trump by the way for the first time um because I too have like you put off by him but I certainly never voted for Hillary Clinton and I can't vote for Biden so right it's it's a I I wish there were better candidates what do you think about the weaponization of the doj right now with with him and kind of uh and and with the states as well I think that's unbelievably dangerous now that's something you know if you're going ask me to talk about the top three things that threat in America people aren't really listening the average guy sitting on his you know drinking his coffee in the morning reading his paper or on his online news he's not aware of what a threat that is but if you weaponize the Department of Justice the FBI and perhaps even the CIA to some degree you are moving very closely uh to being a dictatorial state yeah uh I mean you're near Nazis you're near the Communist parties of major Nations I mean you are the dark days of the Russian Empire and then Soviet Union um that is very serious and we need to be going after that we be and by the way I don't like I don't like it when politicians go in get put in jail for things that are fairly light but anybody who cooperated with that or or called for that or said hey why don't we why don't you guys act in my behalf in this legal prosecution those people need to go to jail I agree I agree and you know people talk about the retribution I mean if Trump is in office I'm I'm trying to put myself in his shoes and if I were going through what he was going through not just from a Revenge standpoint but he's being I mean it's it's wrong I would go after everybody I would I would subpoena all of their phone records I would get all of the INF from New York to Georgia to Florida to you know all of them and go after everyone and this is what ticks me off about Trump he's got the courage to go after them for righteous reasons but what does he get up and talk about I'm going to go after those who wronged me you see what I mean so you're like come on you're so close to the truth you're so close to what needs to happen and then you make it about some petty Revenge thing some journalist who wronged you grow up you know so yeah I'm expressing my irritation but he's got the courage to do the right thing and to withstand the storm sometimes he's just so petty like a like like an offended 16y old but you are right like uh I I've grown to like him a lot more yeah you know I really have and you know I I I try to put myself in his shoes and you know understand he's raised different has a different idea about you know how how things are and you know he does have a lot of Courage cuz the the ones that he's standing up against you know if I if I take a step back I'm like well that's who I consider evil right and you have these evil you know organizations and for whatever reason let's say that Trump is it God's picking him he's here to he's the only one standing up at that level to defend right now and so I do respect him you know yeah going with especially with the more people attacking him the the Russia thing turned out to be bogus yeah I mean it's like uh it's obvious they're they're trying to get him out no question and they're doing it with the legal procedures right so exactly I mean I I certainly understand the man coming in office with a Vengeance sure uh at the same time we've got to have her reset otherwise we're going to turn into a third world country we're just imprisoning our enemies and put lining them up against walls and shooting them and that's where we're going to be heading yeah absolutely let's go to some of your books so uh you know you have so many we we would be talking forever uh if we went through every single one of them uh but um the faith of George W bush yeah how did you write that book you know I had been paying attention to Faith in American politics for a lot of years and then Along Came Bush he'd been president for four years and people liked him but he was heading towards a really tough president second presidential race and he was talking a lot about his faith well bless George Bush's heart but he's not very articulate right I mean we still don't know what the heck he was talking about so I still don't know what strategically means what it means to take the high horse on the low road and all that kind of stuff so we can laugh about him forever but people wanted to understand what his faith was and not only did I have an academic background in that area of American religion um I I knew people who had been with him and I'd had a book on Winston church will come out and do very well and the Bush family liked it so they kind of extended their scepter brought me in gave permission for people to talk to me um his high school history teacher who was the most influential person in his life uh his mother you people like that would talk when they had never talked to any anybody was doing a book about him so I got access and uh then I also wrote it in a tone that was not you know narrowly religious but here's the influence on the guy and here's how it changed his values and so on and um his character was dramatically changed you know he was a guy getting drunk at at at at the restaurant putting people up against the wall in front of their families he did this all the time in both DC and out out in Midland Odessa so uh when he had a profound turn just before the age of 40 it dramatically affected him politically and personally people wanted to understand how because they were about to have another race so I was able to get on the inside write the story and it's still uh my biggest seller it sold millions and I'm grateful for it well so what happened with him so in the before he was 40 like before he was 40 the best way to understand him is that he had this contentious relationship with his father and you know George HW Bush was accomplished you know Yale and navy and CIA and billionaire coming out of West Texas oil and I mean how could you compete with a guy like that so if you're not seeing yourself as part of his legacy and an extension of who he is then you just resent the heck out of him and that's exactly how it was so he had a he was a heavy drink in his father actually he and his father actually got in fist fights he'd come home drunk and start picking a fight I mean it was that bad wow and then finally some guys got him into a Bible study started talking to him straight he had a serious conversion He Walked on a beach with Billy Graham as he famously tells the story although I don't think that's where the turn took place and it really began to take root in him and I think we need to take those those stories seriously your own story for example you know hey I raised in kind of a legalistic thing you say and then I walked away and now I'm coming back I mean that shapes who you are anybody who's going to understand you and work with you needs to understand that side of you well all the more for a president so fortunately I was allowed to tell that story and um it just the the it's obviously American people wanted to know the story because the book blew up sure what what was it like uh interviewing the the Bush family what what are they like very um if they if they don't trust you or they don't know you yet any big political family with a lot of history is going to they're going to close ranks I don't know who you are and I'm willing to kill you right now kind of attitude you know but that's why it takes someone like a Barbara or somebody else in the family to say talk to Stephen Mansfield we can trust him and that's what that's what did it now they didn't know they could trust me because I wasn't going into right just a puff piece um but they were really gracious uh really open told the stories told the good Bad and the Ugly you know I I heard about the fist fights I heard about him getting drunk at uh you know the some some silly restaurant in West Texas you know you don't even know why he's there but he's down at the end of the bar by himself and then an ene political enemy comes in and he beats him up but I was moved by the story I really was moved by the story and I I hope hope I got it on the page right and um and it again I when I when I mention the sales it's not that I'm bragging I'm saying that means there are people out there who want to know that story before they vote sure and uh the sales Rose Rose and then when the election happened they dropped a bit which meant people were trying to get information for the election they were trying to know who this guy is see if we should elect him again we'd had mistakes in Iraq we'd had 911 you know they knew him to some degree but sure is there a better person to take the lead from here that's what they were trying to decide I was glad to be part of it yeah that's awesome uh what was um is it kind of surreal sitting with that family as he's president yes yeah it's very unusual I'm I'm a little bit used to the whole Secret Service thing of you know working in DC and doing things in nationally but when you're with the president it's a whole other thing it's a whole other thing and the family the family can't really say oh yeah come on over you know they might say that and the next thing you do you get a call from Secret Service well you'll need to come over here we're going to check you we want to know about this what were you doing in Iraq exactly you know that kind of thing yeah so um it was it was a real privilege it was a real privilege and and the people who told the story the best uh were his buddies of Faith out in Midland Odessa guys who were in the oil industry with him and then were in that Bible study with him and watched him change and they they told the story I think the grittiest which is what I wanted how did uh how did the family receive the book they loved it they loved it U because it it was straightforward it was honest I mean I I said a couple of things they didn't like like I his daughters were misbehaving at that time and I and I wrote obviously he has work to do at home and the next time I saw one of the Bush family me they said more to do at home work to do at home what are you talking about they were you know because everybody wants to be presented in their best life sure but uh I also think that George W bush and this was a little controversial I think he's an undiagnosed dyslexic or if he has been diagnosed it's not public M and I think he what would it have been like for a sitting president to say you know I have gone to Harvard Yale I have I'm president of the United States been governor of Texas I mean I've been made money oil but I've been a dyslexic my whole life what would have happened if he'd gotten tested the whole story was out what American school kids would have lost their minds with some kind of encouragement that hey even with this disability you can you can you know rise and so um I wish he'd been diagnosed and been open about it instead they kind of hit it but I think you know I've got a little background of this stuff and I think that he that's why he inverts words and so on he's an undiagnosed or or at least not publicly diagnosed dyslexic so I said that in the book is my point and uh I think that and what I said about the daughters although i' I've met the daughters since and interviewed them and been on stage with them and we're we're fine but they were they were misbehaving pretty badly in those days and I said so yeah that's not going to make Daddy happy yeah no what was uh what was Bush like or uh uh W bush like hey George W yeah you know he's really down to earth uh very West Texas his father's a was a little bit more Elite New England you know uh when they I remember once that the father uh a journalist said well what were you thinking about when you got shot down World War II and you were floating around there in the Pacific Ocean he said well about my family about the First Amendment you just thought he's not thinking about the First Amendment he's just throwing religious language that's just he's kind of distant a little emotionally disconnected George W bush West Texas good old good old boy he just you know hey get in here Bubba you know that's that's kind of how he does it you know and and if he if he's met you once he's probably going to remember who you are and so he he liked they like the book it it uh time Newsweek magazine said the book helped him get elected okay which I didn't intend to do but I told the story honestly and it helps him fine with me so um I'm grateful I'm grateful and he he he's a he's a guy you'd want to spend time with I mean if I if I had to choose you know the party question sometimes people ask if you're going to have a dinner with five people living or dead who would it be well my top would be Church Hill you know and people like that but I'd have George W bush there I think he's fascinating I think he's intelligent and how interesting that an ex-president spends his days painting the portraits of the of the wounded soldiers he sent into battle and we've never had anything like that yeah I'm sure he has to go through a lot you know mentally know knowing that you know we were kind of lied into that war yeah and I'm not saying he did did it intentionally uh I don't think he really probably knew right but uh you know if I were president that would weigh on my mind a lot yeah there's no question there was some deception and misdeed at at the same time I'll tell you um the Kurds and the people in Iraq say absolutely Saddam had weapons of of mass destruction and he moved them across the border before the inspectors came so to this I'm just I'm not trying to take a side to this day there's cont y about that and I think bush is probably as bugged by people sitting in his living room saying it was right no it was wrong yes it was right um as he is by the lives lost yeah no absolutely I was talking to um uh an Iraqi uh Uber driver that was a Christian yeah and he actually really liked Saddam I found it interesting he was saying that Saddam was good to the Christians was have you heard heard that I have heard that uh I when I when they say that I say look my brother I love you but I think you're misguided I think Sadam was an evil person his sons were demons they were absolute raping pillaging murdering hacking up demons and um I think Saddam sure when you when you make a nation better and you make the trains run on time people love you for it um but this was an evil man yeah this was an evil man um what did you uh you wrote a book about Obama the faith of Barack Obama how did that yes come uh come about well again I like writing about faith and the real world I've written about faith and a beer company I've written about faith and you know politics and what have you um so Obama's story was interesting because people thought he he you know those who were critical of him said he's a Muslim he's a closet Muslim he's not telling us the truth and um and and yet he he said hey I'm I'm a born again Christian and I would hear from people in the White House that come every Easter he would do a talk on uh you know on the resurrection of Jesus that would bring tears to people's eyes really oh yeah but at the same time you have the whole Jeremiah Wright controversy you know his Pastor in souths side of Chicago yeah remind me of that one yeah Jeremiah was this pastor of a large Church on the south side of Chicago where Obama went and had his conversion experience okay well Jeremiah right guy cusses in the pulpit and and at 911 he said your chickens have come home to roost and all that stuff right and so this was Obama's only Pastor when he stepped into the Oval Office so I thought well this is a subject I want to tackle and I I always asked two things that are three things am I interested in it will the people be interested in it and do I have access and I did have access because I'd written the bush book and some other books even on the left they said this is a guy who tries to write objectively about these things they knew I was a Christian they knew I wasn't going to you know extol anybody but so I got to talk to his sister I got to talk to his campaign managers I got to talk to people who knew him uh I went to that church in the south side of Chicago spent time with all the people who had been impacting Obama and um I think I got it right I think I got right my conclusion is he he was not a Muslim he did live in Indonesia as a youth he left before the Muslim age of accountability we would call it in Christianity um he never never affirmed faith in Islam and had had his days away from God like a lot of us um and then returned to God on the south sou Chicago at that church and has been a very liberal Christian and I tick people off by saying this he is um he believes the Jesus is the son of God raised from the dead died for the sins of the world gospel you know Blood Washed gospel that's being preached to Evangelical churches in the city and from that moment forward he is dramatically left leaning theologically so that's what that's what troubles people uh when people say do I think he's born again as much as I can be sure of any human being I think he's born again but after that what he believes theologically would have been considered heresy throughout most of church history sure because it's so left-leaning that's just the that's interesting though that I didn't know that he was a he was actually a Christian though that's that's cool yeah that's cool um did you interview him I could not interview him uh they they wouldn't would make him available but um the good news is he had done so many interviews he was just starting his administration as I wrote and also he had written so much about his faith he'd written two books by that point New York Times bestsellers Etc so I I feel like I got to the heart of it and his family you know I'll tell you something that's a little bit inside baseball on on my what I do sometimes the subject the person is not the best person to tell their story you know you might not be the best person to tell your story it could be your team team your staff your wife your mom you know could be that as I talk to them I get a better picture than when I talk to you and that was certainly the case with George W bush he he is not an introspective guy you don't want to you don't want to sit him down but talking to Mom talking to pastors talking to people who have walked with him that they got the story I think right if you were to interview Obama uh what would you want to ask him I'd want to ask him how his faith has changed Through The Years you know part of what happens to a president is they get so bad for what they believe sometimes they back away from it sometimes they harden up Bush definitely softened a bit on his Evangelical Faith while he was in office I mean he actually um is a bit PR gay surprising for an Evangelical conservative political conservative um Obama just got bashed for what he believed and so did he just reject anything that touched conservative fa Faith you know so I'd like to know about that I'd like to know if he looks back and and uh I'd like to know I i' like to know about the state of people's Souls so I would ask him uh you took a bashing man you got bashed for everything people are walking around the day saying your wife's a man and every kind of thing so what's that done to your soul and what does that do with your relationship with God do you pray for your enemies I I'd like to understand that side of him interesting yeah it's uh you know I always like to think about like put myself in other people's shoes I mean that's something that I try to always do and I think about I didn't really like Obama either as President right I didn't vote for him but um you know the the internet and it could be a nasty place and how would I feel if the world was attacking me over stuff that was not true constantly right I mean that's God a mess with are you married no well let's just imagine that you were well I am and I I'm crazy about my wife M beat on me all you want I'm fine you know I've been there before and I chose this life MH but beat on my seven-year-old grandson beat on my wife beat on my son and my daughter you know that even though I I may not be able to do anything about it you know hey they're being mean to me yeah um it can torture my soul I'm sure that many presidents many people in public life stay up all night hurting you know trying to trying to get right before the next day because you just want to get on the on the get in front of the microphones and take people's heads off you know Harry Truman actually did once when a guy wrote a scathing review of his daughter's piano playing um but very most presidents don't feel like they can fight back and I think I think that must be one the most tort torturous sides of the whole thing yeah no absolutely it's uh it's got to be tough like you were talking about earlier a lot of good people don't get into politics because of uh just the attacks I've been told by people I think ought to run M I just won't put my family through it and and I'll say is is there do you have skeletons in your closet or are you concerned about them making up skelet he said he said both he said my skeletons aren't moral I didn't do anything illegal he said but I've got a daughter who's intellectual you know troubled got some got some health problems and and isn't quite right mentally I don't I G of shove that in front of the cameras you know yeah so I I'm it saddens me saddens me because nobody's going to be perfect enough to endure this scrutiny no and it's it's just gotten worse and worse and um you know especially as society's changing the philosophy in in our country like they're changing from a you know we're a capitalist Christian country to not that we're turning into a communist country but communist ideology is more accepted and and uh you know faith is seen as weakness right right and people look into the state for their primary leadership and of course that affects their whole sense of Reliance on God Reliance on themselves so yeah I I think we're I think we're heading in a very dangerous Direction but I will have to say as historian that most of this is fairly recent and we can turn it around if we want to that's how recent you think well for you know you and I have been talking about a number of trends that are only a few decades old the def that we talked about a debt um criminalization of politics that really probably dates to the Reagan Administration in the 80s so we're only talking about 40 years that's the first time that you began to see people being criminally prosecuted yeah give me an example that one I'm not I'm not aware there was a there was a gentleman whose name I I forget forgive me uh who under went just a bashing and a complete criminal investigation turned out not to be right and turns out now we know that those who launched it who were people on the other side of the aisle who wanted to damage this guy and he's famous for saying as as he was found not guilty he went before the cameras and he said now where do I go to get my reputation back wow now that's only the Reagan Administration in the 1980s so uh I can't think of any episode of that kind of thing before then we've had it increasingly since then one of my friends is a man named Tom DeLay he was the House minority leader some years ago they bashed him for what at worst was an accounting era he actually left an office over it and I'm telling you to this day I mean it it wasn't anything major at all shouldn't even have been an issue but he got run out of office his wife's health is damaged by it um but all that's very recent so the good news about this this is not 500 years yeah of the criminalization of politics this is a few decades um and some law firms in DC we can deal with that and so we just have to have the resolve to do it well Steph uh we can go on for a while I know that we're going to do a part two but um I really appreciate you coming on and uh I I could talk to you for I don't know 10 hours or so so I can ramble about anything baby so let's just go it's all really good well thanks so much for coming on and we'll talk to you again soon great to talk to you thanks