11. Kae Morales on dating around the globe

Today I sit down with my coworker Karen (Kae) Morales who spends six months a year in Mexico and the rest exploring the world. After getting the travel bug at the age of 12, Kae has pursued her passion for travel around the world and gets to live the life most of us only dream of - bopping around Europe visiting friends, and of course dating along the way. Kae and I discuss how (and more importantly, at what point) she brings up the topic of being childfree when first starting to date someone, and we marvel at the number of times men have actually tried to convince her to change her mind. Buckle up, because this one is fun :) 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Last time I was dating a guy from a Nordic country and I remember our last conversation was like I like you, I really like you and I really like the person I am when I'm with you. Classic s*** right, but you don't want to have children. I was like again like seriously, am I having this conversation? Why it's on my bumblebeel? Like you read it before we came here to Barcelona to spend this time together, Wait okay.

Speaker 2: 0:25

So he had read your profile and you have very clearly marked that you don't have children You're not interested in having children and he still brought it up and was surprised.

Speaker 1: 0:35

Yeah, I think man thing that can make you change your mind. I think that's the approach of every single man. Updated.

Speaker 2: 0:45

Welcome back to another episode of Child Free Me, a show where we examine the choice to be child free and what it's like to navigate that decision in today's world. I am your host, laura Allen, and I am fighting a bit of a cold today, so apologies if my voice sounds extra gravelly or a little stuffed up, but tis the season. And today's guest is the very fun and incredibly beautiful Kai Morales, who is a co-worker of mine, who, you will very quickly learn, does not sit in Chicago. She lives in Mexico for about half the year and then spends the rest of the year traveling around the globe. So I think most people, when they envision the quote unquote stereotypical child free individual, they think of someone who is super glamorous, travels around the world, gets to take all these amazing trips and have all these amazing experiences. And I'd say that for 95% of us that's not true. We just live normal lives. But for Kai, that is very much true.

Speaker 2: 1:48

She is truly living the dream, and I was especially excited to speak with her because she is very single and has dated men from all different countries, and I was really interested to hear her perspective on how she handles dating men around the globe as a woman who knows that she doesn't want to have children, and if there are differences, if there are similarities and what that's like. We talk a lot about her dating life. So if listening to dating adventures is not your thing, this might not be your podcast, because we do spend quite a lot of time on that. But I am, of course, so grateful that she was willing to come on and be so honest and open about her experiences. She is super fun to talk to.

Speaker 2: 2:33

We always have the absolute best time, and I think something else about Kai is the way that she is able to truly make her dreams happen and I don't want to go into a lot of detail because she talks about her background, growing up in Mexico. But she had a dream and just very much made it happen, and I think that is so inspiring. I know she's a huge inspiration for college students back in her hometown in Mexico and it's just really inspiring to listen to her. As someone who's also child free. I'm sort of kicking myself that I'm not also out there, not necessarily being single and dating the world, but being out there and leaning into the flexibility and the freedom that comes with being child free. So she is certainly an example and someone to aspire to. I am so excited for everyone to meet her and with that let's jump in. Kai, welcome to Child Free Me, thank you. So we have worked together for a year.

Speaker 1: 3:41

It feels like forever. Yeah, but it's been only a year.

Speaker 2: 3:44

Okay, so I am so excited because you do not live in the United States In truth, you live all over the world, honestly so you have lots of experiences and exposure to different cultures, which I think will be just an interesting lens to explore this with. With that, can you walk us through how you came to the decision to be child free?

Speaker 1: 4:06

Of course. First, thank you for having me, Laura. I really love that you have created this platform. I was saying before we started this that I was so excited because I have a love to say you know, and I love to share, and I wish this was in Spanish so people can actually, you know, in Mexico, listen to it.

Speaker 2: 4:24

you know, and I am so glad it's not in Spanish.

Speaker 1: 4:29

But now we have technology and we can translate this. So, yeah, I am Kai. I live around the world because I work remote, so it's practically three months here, three months there, going back and forth. I was just thinking when was the first time that I ever, that ever, crossed my mind that I didn't want to have children? And ever since I remember. But if I could say like a specific age, I would say it was around my 22, 23 years when I was 23.

Speaker 1: 4:56

I honestly don't think I ever wanted to have children. When I was young I felt very drawn to be around like children. I like to spend time with my family. You know I am Mexican so we are very family oriented. I come from a very numerous family. I have a lot of cousins, so I was this person and cousin that will always bring you know their cousins to the movies and play with them. So I was very, you know, like naturally drawn. But I don't think I ever felt like I wanted to be a mother when my early 20s I would say like I was 100% sure that I never wanted to be a parent.

Speaker 2: 5:29

And was that something that came about through something in particular, or just one day did you start to verbalize to your family and friends that you're not having children?

Speaker 1: 5:39

Yeah, I honestly think this comes from a combination of factors. First foremost, my lifestyle. I think ever since I was like 12 years old, I always wanted to travel and to work overseas. So my first priority or my main focus for most of my adult and young life was I want to travel. I was always very aware that I needed liberty and freedom to do this. So in my mind was that if I want to travel, I don't really want something that will stop me or block in me from achieving this dream, because it was a huge dream for me traveling. This is when I was 12 years old. Of course, if you would ask me when I was 12 years old if I wanted to have children, I would probably say like, yeah, of course I want a family. I'm.

Speaker 2: 6:21

Mexican.

Speaker 1: 6:22

We are family, like everyone here. But the more I was just growing up and studying and I started to travel, I just realized that it wasn't like naturally coming to me. People will just share like, hey, there is always like a maternal instinct. There's no such thing. There's evidence, scientific evidence. This is there is no maternal instinct. That does not exist.

Speaker 1: 6:43

So I think it was just because I was always focused on my career and I think this is interesting because I mean, as a Mexican and growing in a very humble as well, and coming from a very worker family, I think you also relate the fact like having children with having enough resources, they're expensive. So at the same time, I was like I have a good life, you know, and I feel privileged in so many aspects, but like children are not affordable. So I think I just I grew with this idea that I wanted to travel, I wanted to be a professional that was fulfilling and they were expensive. So I don't think I want to do that. You know, like I actually struggle to kind of like complete my education because I had to work since I was 14 years old. So imagine being 14 years old.

Speaker 2: 7:31

What was your first job?

Speaker 1: 7:33

Well, my very first job, it was like I'll just go to the street and knock on the doors of my neighbors. I was like, hey, I'm going to go to the tortillas. We want me to get tortillas for you and you will pay me like one or two pesos, like this. This is like running here and there, or I'm going to take your trash out. Like how much are you going to pay me for that?

Speaker 2: 7:48

Oh my God, you're a hustler.

Speaker 1: 7:50

Of course, all my life Like and my friends know this. But like that was my very first job. But I've been working at like at McDonald's I was a model for specific products. I work products like food and like beverages, like, I'll be just doing this, like presentations, you know, like dressing up and just persuading people to buy things. I was a doctor's assistant. I've done every, everything that you can think of and I'm very grateful that I had that growing up because I understood that it actually takes a lot of energy and effort to be professional and successful in my definition personal definition of successful. But I also knew that it was going to be hard having children, right? So I think it's just like a combination of like. I know it's a hard situation, it's a hard world out there, and also I just want to focus on my career.

Speaker 2: 8:40

So you mentioned that Mexican culture is very family oriented. What were those conversations like with your family when you decided you didn't want to have children?

Speaker 1: 8:50

It's interesting because I have always been very unapologetically Like. I live like without any explanations, and my mother could say like she never asked for permission. You know, she always does what she wants. She will be offended by the fact that I will never ask my permission or approval or anything.

Speaker 2: 9:07

So when I was at the norm in your culture of course, first, it's a female.

Speaker 1: 9:13

You know like, in Mexican society, we are a very conservative society but we also very religious. You know like, over 90% of the population in Mexico are Catholic and yeah, of course it was going against the norms and the black sheep of the family kind of thing, but I have been always very successful when it comes to academics and professional life. So I guess that's why my my parents were always telling me sounds like you know, like hey, you know she's doing well with my inner circle, my my parents. I don't think this was an issue ever. If I'm being like a hundred percent honest, I have never had, like any conversation regarding like, are you okay with me not having children? Like, I don't feel like I have to. It's my decision, it's my buddy, I am the one that is going to pay for the bills. So if I have decided that I don't want to be a mother, I won't. I won't be a mother, and that's it Right.

Speaker 1: 10:02

I am very vocal about what I want and what I don't want. I think my mom at the beginning thought I was joking, or maybe she thought I was like, oh, she's traveling, you know, that's why she doesn't want to have any children. I mean, she's going to figure out eventually that she wants to be a mother. But I think right now she's like holy God, like she doesn't want to be a mother. She says like, if you're happy, I'm happy, and I truly believe she means it. But I also believe that she will be very happy if I ever like change my mind. I said like, hey, you're going to be a grandmother, you know she is a grandmother right.

Speaker 1: 10:31

I do have a nephew. He is 11 years old and it's the only grandchild my parents that we are aware of. They're very happy, they're very happy and I really thank my brother for that. It's like, oh my God, at least they have someone where they can pour their attention, their energy, their focus right.

Speaker 2: 10:52

What is the child free community like in Mexico? Are there other people who you found who are also child free, or is everyone you know having children?

Speaker 1: 11:01

That is a great question. I currently live in a state that is called Colima. Colima is the second smallest state in the Republic. If small people are close minded, there is an Spanish saying that goes like Pueblo Chico, inferno Grande, which means a small time, big help, because you know everything about everyone.

Speaker 1: 11:25

So you can imagine living and growing up in this very conservative environment. Yeah, of course, like I am 35. So I'm at an age where everyone is either engaged, married or having their first, second or third child. So I wouldn't say the community of like child free people in general is not existent. But I don't really know if there is actually a community here where I live, since, as I was mentioning, I was very always focused to work overseas and travel.

Speaker 1: 11:54

I do know that women outside of Mexico, outside of Colima, that have decided not to have children, I have found like a community with them outside of Mexico. Or you know, like I have met in other places, but specifically in Mexico it's like inner friends, you know, like inner circle friends. I know a couple that they don't want to have children, but recently I have found that a couple of other friends that decided or at some point have been vocal about not having children are changing their mind, which is also interesting, you know, because you never know. It's like, oh, that's, that's great. I mean, if you're changing your mind, you're allowed to change your mind. But is this really coming from a social pressure or like it's really something about like what is next? You know what is the next step on this relationship?

Speaker 2: 12:39

Sounds like you know everyone in your community that you live in. Do people still comment on your decision or have they all just accepted it?

Speaker 1: 12:47

I mean it's a tough question because I just came back to Colima. I was leaving outside Colima for a really long period of time, so people now like they're getting used to the fact that I'm back, you know and.

Speaker 1: 13:03

I'm starting to like, hey, reconnecting with people and all friends from school, all friends from, like previous jobs, like what are you doing here? I know you were in the other side of the world, you know. So I think we're just in this phase where we're catching up and where they realize that I'm not married and I don't want to have children.

Speaker 1: 13:20

So, I think this conversation is with Bella further, but in the other hand, I know that my lifestyle it's also a reference for a lot of people in this town, and I say this because the university where I study is based in Colima, and I'm often like invited to even give talks, not about not wanting to have children, but about how did I get where I am now right.

Speaker 2: 13:46

Like.

Speaker 1: 13:47

I was able to get some grants to go study overseas, so I'm also a reference in that sense, right Like professionally referenced. So oh wow, that's good yeah, it feels good so that's amazing.

Speaker 2: 13:59

So you're sort of a example or a standard that people and hopefully women in the community look up to about being able to envision things outside of the town. I love that. That's so great. So you spend almost half the year in Europe, typically. When did you start doing that?

Speaker 1: 14:16

I started working remote. Well, it goes back in the days when I was at the university. Like I spent seven months in New Zealand studying. I went back, then I went to Thailand and went back, and I think all of my professional life has been like going back and forward. I lived six years in the crib and then came back but, like, officially, I started working remote in 2020. Just at the very beginning of the pandemic, and ever since, I was like oh, I can do my job whatever I want, so I'll start just traveling. So 2020, I would say it was a bad year for the world, but it was actually, you know, like professionally and life goal achievements for me, it was actually a pretty good year because I was traveling a lot. So ever since, it's been three years, almost four, that I've been just traveling around.

Speaker 2: 15:00

Yeah, what do you think? Gave you this travel bug?

Speaker 1: 15:03

I have always been curious and I come, as I was mentioning, I come from a very humble and, you know, like worker family. Just to give you an example, my mom can't tell you, you know, like stories where they wouldn't have anything to eat on Christmas dinner. Carsity in Mexico is a real thing. Over 50% of the population live in extreme poverty, even though, when it was not my case, I mean we come from from struggle. So I think for me, first studying was a privilege right. Having access to food, I would say it was a privilege we never starve. But some things, such as traveling or going to private schools, were a privilege right. So I think in my mind was like, oh, I want to go to private schools, you know, I want to go to the other side of the world. You know, because I have always have friends or neighbors that were, you know, able to travel every summer to Europe or just go for vacations to, I don't know, southeast Asia. So you know like we come from scarcity, but in some scenario this is possible. So that was my travel bug.

Speaker 1: 16:04

And this is funny because my dad used to work for a company back in the days and he would travel a lot and before the airlines would give you like magazines and he will bring every single magazines to the house. Those magazines will contain like destinations like Kosoomal, you know, cancun, cabo, and I would love those magazines. You know, I'll remember just like being very young and opening the magazines like, oh my God, this is Kosoomal, you know, like it's just water, or like what to cause, like this beach looks amazing. And so for me I was like, wow, all of these places I can't get there. You know, I didn't know how, but in my mind was like I can do this because there are people doing it right. So I think that was it for me at the beginning.

Speaker 2: 16:52

So you made it happen. Again, I'm jealous of your lifestyle. I feel like Claire and I sit over here in the Chicago office and we're like where's Kai this week.

Speaker 1: 17:01

Yeah, made it happen. I think it's being tough, I won't lie, but I think it's exactly the life that I want to live and I think this just reinforces the fact that, like, having no children for me is exactly what I need to continue this lifestyle. I don't think I could do this if I ever decide becoming a mother, so for me, it's like this is perfect, like really perfect.

Speaker 2: 17:26

It's ideal. So you are currently single and what I'm excited about is you've dated in every country in the world. So I have many questions about this, but my first question is is there a typical time that you introduced the notion of not having children when you're first talking to someone?

Speaker 1: 17:47

This is a great question and I'm right now terrified that people at our workplace are going to listen to this, but I really want to share detail information.

Speaker 2: 17:57

Excellent.

Speaker 1: 17:58

Yes, I have dated people from not every single country in the world, but, like mostly European Union. My friends call me the European Union just because of that, and it's funny because it's true. You know, I have dated people from different countries. I'm always traveling, I'm always meeting people, and I mean I'm 35. I'm attractive, you know, like I'm a Latina traveling Euro, like this is normal. This is a standard for me, right? I'm also very experienced with dating apps, so do you have one, you use.

Speaker 1: 18:34

Yeah, I use Bumble, I love Bumble. Yeah, I've used others, but I think Bumble has been very good to me so I could use it. And whenever I actually go out with someone, my Bumble, like Bia, says like I don't want children and I don't have children, like this is my presentation. You know, I know this is a conversation for some people like third day, fourth day, fifth day conversation. For me it's a non-negotiable, so it's in my view, it's practically you know the first sentence. My opening line is I don't have children, I don't want to have children.

Speaker 1: 19:10

You know, I think it's important for people, whether you are looking for a serious relationship or you like a casual, you know situation. I'm pretty sure I don't want to and I don't want to have an uncomfortable or awkward conversation later to dates and to I mean to dates. It's just little time, right, but it gets very uncomfortable because it has happened before and that's why I decided, you know, to make this my opening line.

Speaker 1: 19:37

It's a very, I don't know, strong for some people, you know, or like, unnecessary for others. But I have tried to have this conversation in the third, fourth, fifth date.

Speaker 2: 19:47

How to go.

Speaker 1: 19:48

It was bad because I think, like when you're in the fifth date, specifically years ago, and for a Latina, like you were going out with someone on the third date and you were asking like where are we? You know, like, are we?

Speaker 2: 20:02

Where's the ring?

Speaker 1: 20:03

Right, exactly, this is a very Latina thing, right, and it's been changing generationally. Generationally it's changing. But I remember my friend would say, like well, this is the third time that you were going out with someone. Are you in a relationship, right? If you ask me this now, I was like dude, red flag, this is only our fourth time together, like I don't even know you. Okay, so it has changed, right, but in the past it was like, okay, I'm going to wait until the fifth, seventh, you know, eighth, eighth date. And it was bad because obviously for also most of Latino men, it was like why didn't you mention this before? I want to have a family.

Speaker 2: 20:40

Did. A majority of Latino men that you've dated wanted children.

Speaker 1: 20:44

It's funny because they do. And in my mind I always saw, like males, you know, or men in general, like I don't want to have a family. You know, I don't want this responsibility, but for some reason, like I'm just handpicking guys that want to have a family and want to have children. So it was like what? So I remember one of the like toughest conversations I had with someone. He was like I like you, you know, like I really like you, I think we can have a future together, you know. But like I didn't know that you were not into children, you know, like like you were not into having a family, I was like, well, family look different. You know, like we can get a dog. He was like, no, I really want to have a child. He was very shocked by the fact that I was 100% sure and it was a non-negotiable. I think he did get offended that I never mentioned it in the first date and that was our last date. I was like, thank you for showing me.

Speaker 1: 21:36

It's like we were done. I was like goodbye.

Speaker 2: 21:39

Hey so imagine it's tough. I feel like the fact that he was offended you didn't bring it up on the first date means that his baseline assumption is that women want children and if they don't, it's up to them to bring it up.

Speaker 1: 21:50

Exactly. You know, like, you're Mexican, you're Latina, it's your next step. You're 30-something, right, you're thriving professionally, yes, but, like, main purpose is just to have children and create a family. That's your next step. You graduate, you get married, you have children, that's it, that's life. So yeah, he was assuming that I was ready to receive a ring, you know, or anything. I was like far from it.

Speaker 2: 22:14

Well, I'm glad you talked about it before receiving a ring.

Speaker 1: 22:17

Yeah, exactly, of course it's a non-negotiable. But you know, like you would think this is only a Latina thing. But I have dated, as I've mentioned, like men from different countries and I have realized that there is something in the male gene. I don't have research, but I swear like every time I date someone from different countries, like, oh my God, like they're all connected. Either that or I'm actually hand-peeking these guys, you know.

Speaker 2: 22:44

Just the men who want children Exactly? Do you think it's because it just affects their life differently or less, like they don't have the same amount of responsibility when it comes to children?

Speaker 1: 22:55

I think it has to do with the level of responsibility that women and male share when having children, but I think it has to also do with, like social constructs, how we've seen all the time across countries, across generations, that this is what we have been designed to do, like just give birth or just get married, have children. And it's super interesting, you know, like last time I was dating a guy from a Nordic country and I remember our last conversation was like I like you, I really like you and I really like the person I am when I'm with you, classic chat, right, like, but you don't want to have children. I was like again like seriously, am I having this conversation?

Speaker 2: 23:40

You know, so is it every guy you've dated in and out of Mexico Not?

Speaker 1: 23:44

every but like a lot you know, like I was like why it's on my bumblebees, like you read it before we came here. So Barcelona, just spend this time together.

Speaker 2: 23:56

So it was okay, so I forgot about that. So he had read your profile, ostensibly, and you have very clearly marked that you don't have children You're not interested in having children and he still brought it up and was surprised and then you ended up not continuing your relationship because of this.

Speaker 1: 24:14

Yeah, and it's funny because I think men think that can make you change your mind. I think that's the approach of every single man updated. I was like you're going to change your mind, I will be the man that changed your mind. You know, I think they take it as a challenge. You know that it's because you haven't met the love of your life or you haven't met the right person or the right partner. I was like it's not about that, it's not about having the right person, which I think it's important, of course, if you want to, you know, like start a family. But I think they read it and I was like, oh, it's just because she hasn't met me yet. And I do believe that was his approach. You know that.

Speaker 2: 24:49

I was going to ask if they ever try to convince you.

Speaker 1: 24:52

They tried to persuade you at some degree. You know like, look, it's going to be fine. You know, we're going to buy a house, we're going to have a boat, we're going to get a dog. I was like that's exactly the scenario that I don't want.

Speaker 2: 25:04

You know like, I'd be down for a boat and a house.

Speaker 1: 25:07

Yeah, exactly, and a dog.

Speaker 1: 25:08

And a dog, those sound great Totally, but like not the children. So I think for me those are red flags. When someone starts like kind of like persuading or just suggesting it as a joke, I think something internal in them it's going to eventually come to the surface and it's going to get worse. So I'm very good at reading those signs and I always remove from that equation before anything gets deeper. So that's why I'm single Not entirely the reason why I'm single, right, but the men updated. I mean obviously I'm 35. Usually I like to think that I usually date older men than me, right? But they was like, yeah, when I start a problem, I was like I don't, I look like I'm 27. I'm 35.

Speaker 2: 25:52

You do, but I'm 27.

Speaker 1: 25:54

So I'm going to roam the world.

Speaker 2: 25:55

So when they're convincing you. Do you ever try to convince them? Or are you at that point you're like, no, I'm out?

Speaker 1: 26:01

I'm always out. I don't think anything that I have to say about having children will change their mind because it's just such a personal decision. I have met people in my life and very close friends that are really trying to have children and it's a very sensitive conversation. So when someone says I want to have a baby, I was like, fine, I would never try to change their mind, doesn't matter if it's just a friend or a person that I'm dating. I think it's just such a sensitive conversation and I don't feel morally capable to say you should think about it, you're going to be taking care of someone for the next 25 years of your life, years of your life.

Speaker 1: 26:40

You know, I don't feel bad, so, no, it's just like okay, it's a non-negotiable, so thank you, but not thank you. So, and then that's it, it's done.

Speaker 2: 26:51

It's interesting to me that it sort of crosses all cultural boundaries. There's this commonality among men of the world that for the most part they want to have children. I don't think I realize that, and it's surprising.

Speaker 1: 27:04

They're interconnected and I think it's the patriarchy. That's exactly what it is. You know, the cemetery of your from a Nordic country or from a Latin American country, like something that has been like culturally and socially. We have been designed to believe that this is it, Like this is the family. There are dads, we're the moms and we're designed to give birth. So it has to happen eventually, Right? The European countries, of course, are more open-minded and it's a whole different story, but still like updated European men.

Speaker 2: 27:32

Do you think European men are more open-minded than American men?

Speaker 1: 27:36

I do, wow, I don't know. Yeah, a hundred percent.

Speaker 2: 27:39

Have you dated American men?

Speaker 1: 27:41

I have. I have dated American men.

Speaker 2: 27:43

You're so lucky. The best of the best it was actually a pretty, pretty nice guy.

Speaker 1: 27:49

He, of course his married has a beautiful family now, but he was actually pretty interesting. But we were so young and it was fun until he wasn't, so I think I know the answer to this, but are you open to men who already have children? I would love to date a man who has already children.

Speaker 2: 28:07

Really.

Speaker 1: 28:08

Yeah, this is shocking for some Mexicans, like specifically female, because it's like like you don't want to go to that territory, girl. You know, like if they have children, that equals problems, right? Because if they have children that means that they still have a connection with their ex. You know, like communication, it gets complicated If you ask me personally. It was like have children, you know, fulfill that desire in your life. Don't ask me for children. Do you need to go to festivals on Sundays? Go to festivals. Do you need to Father's Day celebration? Go to Father's Day celebration. Like I don't really mind.

Speaker 1: 28:41

Have you dated someone with children? I haven't. This is funny, but I haven't. And I don't know why. Oh, once I tried, but the guy was too old for me. No, not doing this. I look like I'm 27. I'm dating someone that looks like he's 60. No offense to all the 60-year-old men out there. How?

Speaker 2: 28:59

old were his kids 20-something. Oh, gosh Okay. I could be partying with them, so I'm gonna say you're more likely to date them than with your father. Okay, that makes sense. I honestly thought you were going to be like no way, I don't want men with kids, because I feel like, are you worried that that will constrict you the same way that having your own children will? Or your assumption is that mainly their mother will take care of them and you can continue to travel and, obviously, date their father?

Speaker 1: 29:28

That is a great question. In my mind, my thought process is, if someone has children, they won't come 10 years later and say, hey, you know what? I want to have children, right. It's like we already know this amazing feeling they all talk about, right, about paternity or maternity or whatever. And I think in my mind and this is very personal, I think, one of the reasons I don't want to be a mother besides, like this allows me to travel and I love my lifestyle it's also because it's a very transformational process for women, right, like all the changes on your bodies and your hormones, and you're like I don't want to go through that. So that's also like out of the question. So I think there's like, oh, safe.

Speaker 1: 30:08

But at the same time, I don't know why people think that if a woman doesn't want to have children, it means that they hate children. And I don't hate children, you know, I like them, they're cool. You know, specifically when you can ask them for their remote or controls, like, hey, go, bring me this, bring me that. That's child slavery. But no, no, no, no, I think it's just. Of course, I like you know, I think when, in my mind, you get to hang out with them, but I wouldn't feel that it's my responsibility to raise them. They have a mother and they have a parent. You know, I can be a support, but I, I totally feel that it's not a hundred percent my responsibility and that feels okay, it's perfect situation, yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:52

So you'll get the best of both worlds. And it leaves the pressure. So you know 100% that he'll never come back and ask you for children Exactly.

Speaker 1: 31:01

So I was like that's fine To all the diversity out there with children. My number is eight to nine.

Speaker 2: 31:09

Exactly. I'm sure they're all listening to this podcast.

Speaker 1: 31:12

And actually it's statistically speaking. I'm 35. You have, if I want to date someone older than me. They're already married or divorced and have children. So it would be very naive from my part to assume that all 40 year old men are in married or having children.

Speaker 2: 31:29

So I need to you know do they list it on their profile typically, or do they typically not list it? And then you have to figure it out a day of children or not?

Speaker 1: 31:39

They do dating apps in general, some of them, at least Bumble is the one that I use. It has a feature where you can actually select to show whether first, if you want a serious relationship or a casual relationship or just friendship or whatever, and also if you want to share, if you have and want children, right? So two different things I don't want and I have children. You know like this is it, or I do and I don't have children, so I'm looking for children. So I think it gives you a pretty decent amount of information to make your informed matches.

Speaker 2: 32:11

Have you ever swiped right on a guy who says that he does want kids but is really cute? And you're like oh, I can maybe convince them otherwise?

Speaker 1: 32:20

I've probably did in the past when I was younger to be honest, I've been using that enough since 2014, which is like a lot.

Speaker 2: 32:28

Oh my, I feel like you could write. You should do a podcast on how to. What do you?

Speaker 1: 32:32

mean, my friends asked me for advice, so I can tell you pretty nice advice.

Speaker 2: 32:37

Yeah, what are your biggest pointers, especially for dating internationally?

Speaker 1: 32:42

I have filters, very good filters, but I mean, it's just personal preference as well. I like a good texture. I like people that communicate clearly, that are responsible with their emotions and communication, so I can write an essay on this. But of course I have swipe on cute guys that want children and the family and the house and the boat and the dog, okay, but I know I always am very aware as well that it's not. It won't last forever, so I don't do it now because I like to be intentional. Now when I date people, I think the older I get, my attention span reduces, so I was like I cannot be texting with four guys at the same time. No, no, no, I'll text one guy. That's, it Didn't work out. Next, one to all for being texted with three at the same time. I wish I could, though.

Speaker 2: 33:32

I feel like you should write a guide. I think people would buy that Cause to your point, you've been on it for almost 10 years at this point In. I feel like you do it very well. You're efficient, you have good stories. Like you said, I think you filter well, so I think that is knowledge that can be passed on.

Speaker 1: 33:49

Totally so. Yeah, I'm considering.

Speaker 2: 33:51

So what is your advice for women who are child-free and actively dating?

Speaker 1: 33:57

Yeah, I think my recommendation would be to have the conversation. Probably people won't agree with this, but I mean for me it's important and for me it's unknown and questionable. So I probably just filter well If you're dating. Dating life is wild, honestly, and it can be very frustrating and it can be very exhausting, but if you filter well, it can always be very fun. It can be very, very interesting. Like I have made people the most interesting. People Like you have no idea just because I went on a date with them and my recommendation is just, if you're 100% certain that you don't want to have children, just make sure that's included in your view so they can be aware and just date intentionally. If you know you don't want to have a family, date guys that don't want to have a family. Okay, probably if they swipe right, they know you don't want to have children, so you can maybe circle back on the topic on the third, fourth date and it goes like serious, but at least like have it in there.

Speaker 2: 34:51

Do you ever go to line or way that you introduce the topic, or do you just pull up your profile and you're like? So back to this.

Speaker 1: 34:58

Okay. So I like to think that I'm very naturally always having this type of conversation and I like to be certain of things. So whenever I do not feel certain, I always have a conversation. I'll ask you like, hey, I like you invested, but I want to know what's next. You know, like, should I be getting excited? Should I be buying me? Wedding dress and I'm usually very, you know, like I'm a clown when it comes to this conversation. So people love like I try to. Sense of humor is always a good thing.

Speaker 2: 35:31

So I try to get. What are we?

Speaker 1: 35:32

doing here you know like, but I don't mind if it's confrontational and if they feel uncomfortable. I want partner that feels good when we need to talk about this important you know topics. Has any guy ever gotten angry? No, not angry, honestly, and disappointed.

Speaker 2: 35:49

But that's it, but no anger. Do all your exes have children now? Yes, they do, mine too.

Speaker 1: 35:57

They do have children, which is fine, you know.

Speaker 2: 36:00

And all of my exes have children with the person they met and started dating immediately after me.

Speaker 1: 36:05

I think 80% of my exes are in the same scenario. They met their wife right after we broke up marrying our children.

Speaker 2: 36:14

It's something about dating child-free ladies, Exactly Okay. So where are you traveling next?

Speaker 1: 36:20

I am going to New. Zealand. I already have my flight ticket. I'm going back after 16 years.

Speaker 2: 36:27

How, for how long?

Speaker 1: 36:28

I'm going to be there for a couple of months.

Speaker 2: 36:31

That's going to be some crazy hours. You're going to work.

Speaker 1: 36:33

It is. I'm preparing mentally, physically I don't have to do that, but I mean young, wild and free.

Speaker 2: 36:40

That's true.

Speaker 1: 36:41

We can do this.

Speaker 2: 36:42

You're 25. Nothing can hold you back.

Speaker 1: 36:44

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 36:45

And you're going to be looking for men with children previously.

Speaker 1: 36:49

Yeah, or men that don't want to have children that have decided not to. Qies are amazing Like they're super friendly, although I know they're very family-oriented too. It will be an interesting trip and I'll keep you posted on my dating life.

Speaker 2: 37:04

We all live vicariously.

Speaker 1: 37:06

But yeah, this journey, it's amazing. If you ask me, I wouldn't change the thing about not having children. For me it's always been very clear that I don't want to. It's fantastic I get to wake up late if I want to have chocolate or ice cream for breakfast. I don't have to be worried for someone else for the next 25 years of my life. I think people are just trying to rationalize the fact that some people are like why don't you have children? Are you sure you don't want to have children? I was like it's simple, it's not too rational about it. I don't want to. I don't want to. I don't feel like I have to. I don't want that responsibility and that should be enough. I find fulfillment in so many other things in my life. I'm happy that I get to travel and date men around the world and just keep compiling this dating stories and just knowing so many cultures.

Speaker 2: 38:00

You can write a book at the end of all of this.

Speaker 1: 38:02

Yes, and I also receive feedback from people who are on me Like people that don't have children, people that have children. I can't live in the dream life, the dream. Exactly. It's like yeah, I'm just living my best life, so I keep receiving this feedback from people, so I'm actually in a pretty good place. Whenever I feel like should I be thinking about freezing or should I answer something, there is always information from the universe going on like no.

Speaker 2: 38:27

Have you thought about it seriously freezing rakes?

Speaker 1: 38:30

But I have, because I like to be informed and I like to make informed decisions. So actually I did ask my doctor on my last appointment, hey, how this did work, how much it cost, how's the procedure? Did she start laying out all the facts? I was like no, it's just a lot of effort, a lot of money, it's painful. I think if I ever decided that I want to be a mother, I'll just go for adoption, or there's so many other ways to become a mother.

Speaker 2: 38:56

Well, thank you, this was so much fun. I'm excited to do part two. When you come back from New Zealand, you can tell us all about your dating escapades.

Speaker 1: 39:07

I'll keep you posted. Thank you for having me. This was so much fun. Can't wait to share it as well.

Speaker 2: 39:13

Awesome, thank you, thank you, and that's it for today. Thank you for joining me. If you enjoyed today's episode, please don't forget to subscribe or consider leaving a review wherever you get your podcasts. I hope everyone is surviving the fun but also stressful holiday season and I will see you next week. Thanks, bye.