23. Marisa Moon on prioritizing your health

Today I am honored to sit down with Marisa Moon, a national board-certified health and wellness coach and author of the Amazon bestseller book Not So Fast. Growing up surrounded by her large Italian family, Marisa always assumed she wanted to have children...until she realized that she didn't. We discuss how her ADHD diagnosis played a role in her decision, what it was like coming to terms with the choice in her late 20s, and why she's now drawn to coaching to mothers as a primal health coach.

Check out all the many, many things that Marisa is up to in the wellness space!

• Not So Fast: The Smarter, More Gradual Approach to Intermittent Fasting Benefits That Last
• The Not So Fast podcast (coming soon!) 
• My Longevity Kitchen

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

And that's what's going on, when I'm finally waking up to the gravity of having children and growing my family in that way, and I'm literally like nope, nope, nope, nope. The only things that I wanted about it was I want to see a cute little mini me that I made with my husband, who I love dearly, and I just want to see it. Can I just see it and variance it for like three weeks and then just give it back? I just want to make my mom happy so I don't break her poor little heart and I give her a purpose to live.

Speaker 2: 0:28

Welcome back everyone to another episode of Child Free Me, a show where we examine the choice to be child free and what it's like to navigate that decision in today's world. I'm your host, laura Allen, and today's guest is Marisa Moon, a National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach and author of the Amazon bestseller book Not so Fast. In addition to being a well respected coach and author, marisa also has a podcast, a blog and a pretty big following on social media. What I love about her story is that Marisa actually spent her childhood and early adulthood thinking that she wanted to have children and that she was going to be a mother, and it wasn't until she approached her 30s that she realized it actually wasn't her dream and had to come to terms with that a little bit later in life. So it was interesting to hear that perspective, since a lot of the people I speak with, myself included, have always known that not having children was their future. So I appreciate her being open and being able to talk about that.

Speaker 2: 1:39

We honestly had so much fun. I was, candidly, a little nervous to speak with her, just because she does have a big following on Instagram and now she's this best-selling author, but she was so kind and down-to-earth and listening back to this conversation. We just had so much fun. She actually is just down the road from me over the border in Indiana, and we were able to persevere through some dramatic Midwestern weather and even a power outage. So I am so excited for you to meet Marisa and to hear her story. Let's jump in, marisa. Welcome to Child Free Me, hey.

Speaker 1: 2:21

Laura, this is exciting for me. I hope you know that the second I found out about your podcast, I shared it with like three girlfriends already and it's just such a cool find. What a great idea you had.

Speaker 2: 2:31

Oh, thank you. I love that I get an interview and three downloads, hopefully. So that is such a package deal. I appreciate it. So, marisa and I actually used to live in the same state, in the same city. You used to be in Chicago, right, yeah?

Speaker 1: 2:44

And I'm still only 45 minutes from you, girl. I'm just over the state line and it sounds really far, but it's not.

Speaker 2: 2:50

It's not far. A little bit more space, I'm assuming. Yeah, that's why, and apparently, some storms today, so I appreciate you powering through. We have a lot to talk about, but I think I'm going to start where I always like to start, which is can you just walk us through?

Speaker 1: 3:06

your journey to choosing to be child-free. Yeah, it wasn't such a linear journey. It's not going to be the shortest story, but let's see where this goes. I really always imagined myself having children. I want that to be said first, as a little girl, as a teenager, young and in love, always imagining in the future, you know, someday.

Speaker 1: 3:25

And when I was in my mid-20s, I was settling down with my now husband, and this was 15 years ago. We had an unusual lifestyle because we both worked nights and we lived downtown Chicago and that really worked for us in our social circle. But because of the way that our schedule was so unusual, a lot of things about our relationship was unusual. The way we managed our time was not the cookie cutter type of household and I also was changing careers at that time. I was also getting a diagnosis for ADHD at that time and that was not surprising, but it was still quite a shock because it makes so much sense of my life.

Speaker 1: 4:07

Beforehand I dropped out of college three times. I'm like why do I always change my mind about things and why, you know, can't I be on time anywhere, all sorts of things? You start to put the pieces together and you're like, oh, and the more I learned about ADHD, the more I was able to notice patterns in my own way of life and my own frustrations, my own challenges and skills and everything that makes me feel unique. I could connect back in some way or another to ADHD gifts or impairments, and part of that is self-management and self-regulation is really challenging, and I could see that everywhere. But when you live in a two-bedroom apartment, high-rise building in downtown Chicago, your place isn't that big, is really challenging, and I could see that everywhere. But when you live in a two bedroom apartment, high rise building in downtown Chicago, your place isn't that big. You don't have that much to clean and if you have enough money, you can pay a cleaning lady. So one of the most common lifestyle circumstances that result from having ADHD is having a messy space that you live in and that's not the way you want it. You just have trouble managing your space, your time and all of the things you're juggling in life.

Speaker 1: 5:10

I got a puppy and so that was my first experience with something like that All the while I'm approaching engagement, and then, as soon as I got engaged, I was like holy crap, I know what's next. It's wedding and I wanted to be engaged, no question about that. I wanted to be married, no question about that. But it was all of a sudden hitting me. I'm 29 years old, I'm engaged and what is next is having kids. I cannot believe that I am already at that fork in the road and I did not want to have them. So it was the first time that I really was facing that decision as if it was in the present moment. It always just kind of felt like something that was so far away.

Speaker 2: 5:42

Was it something that you and your boyfriend and then fiance and now husband, prior to this fork in the road, had you guys talked about it at all?

Speaker 1: 5:52

Yeah, this is the messed up part. So when I met him, when we were first dating, like one of the very first things that we discussed were certain topics like family and religion and you know certain things that could be deal breakers. And I told him that I wanted to have kids and he didn't want to have kids, and so I told him that was a deal breaker for me and he was like, well, if it came down to it and we are compatible, would you be open to having one? And I said I can't say no, I can't say yes, I had a sibling, but it was probably a lot to manage, so I would consider it. We never really touched that topic again.

Speaker 1: 6:29

It was just here and there throughout our four and a half year courtship. Before engagement was conversations about when we have kids or if we have kids or things are going to be even harder or whatever. Just kind of like little little things here and there, but no real conversation. And so when we got engaged and I came to this life altering decision all a sudden, I was like holy shit, I don't want to have kids, like what is happening. I had to tell him like, of course, he's like the first person I have to tell yeah, I thought he was going to be so happy.

Speaker 2: 6:53

But he was finally on the same page.

Speaker 1: 6:55

Yeah, but he was really confused because he thought all this time before me you wanted kids and now all of a sudden you don't want them, is it me? And so he took it very personally and he was also afraid that my family was going to blame him. Like we always thought she was going to have kids and now she's marrying this guy and all of a sudden she's not going to have them anymore, and so that created a lot of strain in our relationship because, no matter what I said, he was convinced that it was him. And phases. We think we're past it and then boom, some altercation happens and we realize this is still a very open wound, and part of those phases of acceptance were that I had to tell my family oh, that was the hardest part.

Speaker 2: 7:38

What was their reaction?

Speaker 1: 7:40

Well, I'm 100% Italian and we're super family oriented and I'm the only daughter and I already, like, did a lot of things outside of the norm. I didn't go like the well-carved path. My brother went he's like, didn't break any of the rules in high school or junior high and stayed home all the time, didn't fight with my parents, didn't talk back on time for stuff. I know what I want to do when I'm in high school. So this is him intern for this company and then go work for them after I graduate college for the degree that I am interning, this specialty, this straight trajectory and I'm like who are you? How are we related? We were super close but we were opposites and so I just kept thinking of all the crap and the twists and turns I put my parents through and dropping out of college three times and crying on their shoulders, and it was just hard for me to say here now I'm letting you down in this way, and I knew it was absolutely a letdown, like 100% disappointment that is going to change their life forever based on what they imagined it was going to be, and that's massive.

Speaker 1: 8:37

I have a history of depression, which is really common in women with undiagnosed ADHD and women with ADHD. It could have been because I didn't know I had ADHD that I was prone to depression. But some of the things I've learned about ADHD and depression is this cool term called dopamine prediction error, and it's essentially when your brain makes dopamine in anticipation of something, some outcome or some unfolding of events that you expect to occur, and then something changes that, so it doesn't happen or meet your expectations, and dopamine prediction error can be like an extreme letdown, like turning into depression, and I knew that I was going to disrupt my parents' whole future by dropping this bomb on them, and so it was tough. I mean, there was so many tears and so much doubt. Everybody kept thinking I was going to change my mind. My mom's, like you should freeze your eggs. It was just constantly coming down to like this conversation with myself was about I can't just do it for her, like I cannot have kids just for her.

Speaker 2: 9:33

Yeah, so you said you went undiagnosed with your ADHD. Had you been diagnosed by the time, you decided not to have children. Were they aware of the diagnosis?

Speaker 1: 9:43

Yeah, they were aware right after it happened. We're pretty close.

Speaker 2: 9:47

Okay, so they knew about this diagnosis, because it sounds like a lot of this decision and you realizing having children was not the right path for you. A lot of it came down to the realization that you had ADHD and it's not the right lifestyle for you, given this. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:02

It's just because I'd hate to label it or connect it to ADHD so directly, but it's because I discovered or was able to label my condition that I learned more about myself and was able to observe myself and become more self-aware and become more in touch with my reality and stop fantasizing about something that isn't. It seemed sudden, but it wasn't. It was just like an epiphany. It was like who am I kidding? Like I literally don't want any of that. And you know, what's funny is, in the simplest way I can make an analogy, is all of us in the workforce. We all want to be more productive. I've always thought I want to be more productive. We're downloading videos how to be more productive, how to increase productivity. And I was on a group coaching call with an ADHD coach who said first, before we talk about how to be more productive, I want to define productivity and describe what a person is like who is productive, because you need to know what you're wishing for if you want to be more productive. And she said productive people push through discomfort and keep working even though they don't want to. Productive people stay late at work and sacrifice other obligations to finish their work. Productive people blah, blah, blah. She goes on and on and on about all these things.

Speaker 1: 11:15

I'm like I don't want to be that, I don't want to do that.

Speaker 1: 11:17

That doesn't sound like what I want and that's what's going on when I'm finally waking up to the gravity of having children and growing my family in that way and I'm literally like nope, nope, nope, nope.

Speaker 1: 11:28

The only things that I wanted about it was I want to see a cute little mini me that I made with my husband, who I love dearly, and I just want to see it. Can I just see it and variance it for like three weeks and then just give it back? I just want to make my mom happy so I don't break her poor little heart and I give her a purpose to live. That's all I wanted it for my husband, like the only reason I wanted it was to make me happy and to also to be sure we have someone to take care of us when we're old. I mean, he's in the emergency room and he knows there's a lot of people who are left alone during their hardest times because they don't have anyone. But, as he has said many times, that happens also to people who have children, and I see that all the time too.

Speaker 2: 12:03

When you guys were first dating and having this conversation around children, did he talk about his decision around not wanting children and what was behind that?

Speaker 1: 12:12

For him it's just mostly been like the world is effed up and I already work really hard just to have the life that we've got right now and I would be under so much pressure if I had to give my kids a good life, like the way my dad tried to give me a good life, and the stress of managing that between the two of us seemed to be a really undesirable, unappealing endeavor for us as individuals and in a relationship. Really hard to find reasons that we wanted them. That, to me, is like so freaking clear. It was also because I just felt like I was like not doing my job as a human being. I was like I'm a woman, my biology is designed to have children and it's kind of like our innate purpose. How can I make a choice to not fulfill that purpose that my body's designed for?

Speaker 2: 13:02

That was kind of hard, it sounds like you, were likely receiving a lot of messages growing up as well, that having children in a large family is the future.

Speaker 1: 13:11

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:12

That sounds like an incredibly hard burden to bear on you. First to talk to your husband and have to work through his own interpretation of your decision, despite actually being on the same page, and then also talking to your parents and your family. It sounds like you were continually invalidated. They kept saying, well, maybe make sure you have your eggs raised, you'll change your decision. That's really tough, but also, from my perspective, it is so admirable to even recognize how difficult it would be to bring a child into this and you are doing what is absolutely best for you and, honestly, that's really admirable. One of the things I love to talk about on this podcast is, rather than just doing something because others want you to do it or society expects you to do it, or doing it without thinking, you're putting a lot of thought into this. I just want to acknowledge those very brave. Where's your family now in terms of the decision? Is it something they've come to accept? Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1: 14:09

Yeah, thank God, it's been 10, you know 10, 11, 12 years since those difficult conversations and maybe they recurred like here or there. God bless my husband A couple of months ago. He was like putting the recycling out, like just doing chores, and he's like I had to talk to you, are you sure that you don't want to have kids? Because this is kind of like our last chance. I just want to make sure that you're not going to regret this, because if you really wanted to have one, like I still would and I'm like no, but do you still want to have one? Because if you really wanted to have one, maybe I would, and he was like no, and I was like okay, I'm just making sure.

Speaker 1: 14:43

It was like the sweetest thing, because he is like a real hard. No, and always was. Since the beginning it was just the cutest thing, but other than that it really never comes up anymore. You know, maybe the first five years my mom would bring it up.

Speaker 1: 14:55

Nobody ever confronted me about it. So that's why it didn't become a problem. We just have a really traditional family and when a couple of my cousins got divorced they had to hide it and couldn't tell anybody. Like how terrible that you can't even just be honest about what you're going through. We didn't really have women in our family who chose not to have children. That was pretty, pretty rare. So I didn't really know what to expect.

Speaker 1: 15:15

I just I've always been like an eternal optimist. I'm not really worried about it. My husband's the absolute opposite. You know he's what he'd call a realist, just a pessimist. Glass half empty. I'm glass half full and in a lot of ways he's evolved since being that type of man and he has such a growth mindset and is a huge inspiration to me. But I'm not afraid of the future. I never have been. Maybe he fears the decision that we've made solely because our life story will only be written by the two of us, and it took him a while to accept. When I say our family, it's enough to just be the two of us. That's our family, that's our household. We're still a family even though it's just the two of us.

Speaker 2: 15:53

Yeah, I'm getting married. We've had many discussions leading up to this about defining family and making sure that we are creating a family, because oftentimes, without children, it's hard to be acknowledged or get that validation in regards to being a family unit. It's a conversation that takes place in our household as well, and it's great the two of you are so on the same page. It sounds like now. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:16

As soon as he was like able to accept that I'm telling the truth and I will not resent him for this which was like sprinkled throughout the first few years of our marriage and engagement. It's just something that comes up all the time.

Speaker 1: 16:30

We're like oh my God, I'm so glad I'm not having kids. Or we'll send each other something and be like can you imagine? Or holy shit, I'm so glad we're not having kids. Like it comes up all the time. And that's why, when people say you might change your mind, you might change your mind. I'd be like you'd be surprised how much I'm reinforcing this decision over the years.

Speaker 2: 16:47

Without a doubt, we still have many friends who are having children and every time I'm sort of like is this the moment when I meet the child? Or we went to a baby shower together I was like is this the moment where I'm going to feel it? I was like is this the moment where I'm going to feel it? And I'm also like is this the moment Zach's going to feel it? Coming home from the very last baby shower, apparently Zach was standing in the corner talking to some of the men who both had children on the way, and apparently these men were just gushing about how excited they are which is lovely, that's lovely. I love it when fathers are excited to have children and Zach's in the car and he was like I just don't think I'd ever be able to be that excited about having a child. He was like I just I looked at them and was like this is not going to be me. So it's reassuring.

Speaker 2: 17:25

We constantly have these reassurances.

Speaker 1: 17:28

Us too.

Speaker 2: 17:28

You worked in Chicago and it sounds like you had you know a different work path. You were working nights. Have you made a lot of friends that have also chosen to not have children, or do you have any sort of community that you can lean on in that?

Speaker 1: 17:41

So weird how it worked out that my two best friends don't have children and they're not having children.

Speaker 2: 17:46

Oh, wow.

Speaker 1: 17:46

Because they were already my best friends around this time. One of them was planning on having children and the other we just didn't talk about it very much. It's funny to think back. I'm sorry I'm stuttering because I'm trying to think like how it just worked out that way. But maybe we're bonding, like our bond is growing even deeper now that we're in our 40s and we see like how immensely valuable it is to have each other.

Speaker 1: 18:12

Because our relationships with mothers or new mothers we can see are strained in different ways that our friendship is not and no matter how hard we try, we can't be as present in the new mom's life who is our friend, or in their child's life.

Speaker 1: 18:28

It's like so difficult for them to manage alone, let alone to coordinate with somebody else, to have you be involved really heavily.

Speaker 1: 18:37

So unless we're like neighbors, and even then between children's activities and sleep and nap schedules and mom and dad's work schedules, it's really hard for me to be involved in my brother's kids' lives and he lives in Chicago so it shouldn't be that hard, but it's been extremely challenging even for my own parents, who would bend over backwards, to spend time with these children. It is just so hard for everyone to make time for each other, and when we're talking about a child who grows up so rapidly, that makes a huge difference. But when it's with your friends, it's like a month can go by and we pick up right where we left off. Or two months go by and I don't feel like I missed like their whole life, and what they're passionate to talk about or spend time doing is very different from what the new moms are passionate about or spending time doing, and that, inevitably, is going to change the culture of our friendships. I'm just so thankful to have rock solid friendships with women already who again chose this same path.

Speaker 2: 19:33

Have you talked about it? Now? It sounds like you didn't talk about it, so the three of you talk now. What are the main things?

Speaker 1: 19:38

you talk about. Yeah, just randomly, in general, just commenting on other people's situation with their kids and saying, oh my gosh, we're going to have each other. We're going to be these little golden girls like hanging out, going to dance parties and keeping each other young and doing our best to take care of each other. Because even though we're all around the same age, you know, it's very likely that some of us are going to be taking care of the others as we get older, because we are all going to be child free and you know, I don't expect my brother to be helping me when I get older. I think about my, some of my cousins who might, who are also child free. I'm like we're going to be like this little like club of women who are like no matter what, I got your back and you know, with enough of us, it can be something that we share responsibility for and just kind of have our own like community of aging women who are a new type of family.

Speaker 2: 20:22

Have you explored the child-free community at all, like other women? There's actually a small but growing movement almost of women planning trips together and trying to reach out, because not everyone naturally or organically has these other child-free friendships I certainly didn't, and so it is actually a larger community, I think it would be really hard for me, laura, if, like you experienced, I didn't have child-free friends or cousins, because I was always afraid everyone was judging me.

Speaker 1: 20:52

Even in my coaching business, as I grew my work as a health coach and my clientele grew I was always helping women with children and women that have they're now empty nesters is quite common or who have children that are like nine through 14, which is sometimes a really demanding age, which you would think toddlerhood and stuff is really demanding.

Speaker 1: 21:13

But I think the younger the kids are, the more devoted the mother is like wholeheartedly, with like rose colored glasses, but when the kids get older and they don't appreciate all of the work that the mother is doing, and then maybe the marriage is like wholeheartedly, with like rose colored glasses, but when the kids get older and they don't appreciate all of the work that the mother is doing, and then maybe the marriage is also strained from many of the challenges that they face in this growing household. I see that they're really open to working with someone like me who hasn't had kids, because they want to know what it's like and they also want a perspective from someone that's not comparing how they raise their kids or sharing opinions about the way they do things or the conversation being dominated about the children. I think they appreciate and are surprised by my emphasis on them as the individual and how desperately most of them need to nurture that, because it's been neglected for a decade or more for most of them.

Speaker 2: 22:02

I would also say, just going back to the importance of having other women who are child-free, is you can be the most confident person in the world knowing that you don't want children, and I still think it's hard not to doubt yourself and your choice when everyone else around you is making a different choice. Going back to what you were talking about, is it our imperative as women to have children? Is it our biological destiny, and am I broken because I'm not choosing this path? That is the struggles that I have had in my world, Even though I live in downtown Chicago. I've lived in major cities my whole life, very progressive. It's still difficult for me not to doubt that. So I want to talk about your line of work. You were saying earlier you identify as a solopreneur, which is definitely something that I think is becoming more and more mainstream. Honestly, I have a lot of Instagram accounts that I follow of solopreneurs. You work in ancestral health. Can you tell us a little bit around what that is and perhaps the dynamics that play in around having children or not?

Speaker 1: 23:02

Yeah, I mean, I rarely lead with that. Even the term ancestral health is like you either get it and it intrigues you, or you're like whoop, you know over my head or I don't care. To me it's one of the most fascinating philosophies and growing areas of research to understand what we can learn from ancient humans, their lifestyle, their diet, their bodies, compared to humans now, how our environment, our lifestyle and our diet influences or hinders our health today. Ancestrally, humans that were from pre-civilized times, before the advent of agriculture, before the Industrial Revolution. There was a ginormous part of our human timeline that existed then that none of us are typically aware of. But the reason it matters is because that's the last time that our genes, our human DNA, has evolved in any really significant way, evolved to adapt to its circumstances. But our circumstances have changed so rapidly since those times, since the advent of agriculture and since industrial revolution and since the inventions of technology and the booms in technology, and you can already imagine, just from when your parents were growing up, the massive changes that we've lived under.

Speaker 1: 24:17

When we think about it in terms of food or medicine or toxins in the environment, there's what's called an evolutionary mismatch, because our DNA has not evolved to withstand or to incorporate these inputs, this food, this circumstance, this amount of stress, the way we're living with artificial lights there's so many factors that are made obvious when you learn through an ancestral lens, and my initial education as a health coach is as a primal health coach, so the Primal Blueprint is one of the most groundbreaking books in this field, and the author of that book, mark Sisson, founded the Primal Health Coach Institute where I was educated, and so evolutionary biology is something that fascinates me, and it's one of the reasons I moved to Indiana from the city, because I was like I need some nature.

Speaker 1: 25:02

I'm literally never in nature. I was actually just so petrified of insects and dirt and all these very unnatural things that I was like I'm just going to have to force to like get in touch with the primal me, because we all are really designed that way. It's just circumstantial conditioning that we have grown to be afraid. I mean, when I was a little kid, I would collect lightning bugs and caterpillars and I wasn't afraid of them. If I saw like a roly poly, I would roll it up my finger with my fingers. If I saw an earwig, I would just smash it, or maybe I collected it, I don't remember.

Speaker 1: 25:33

But you know all of a sudden, like I'm so freaking petrified, like even an ant is going to scare me. That is so unnatural and I knew that just getting out of the city would be forcing me to be more in touch with myself and my surroundings. Which part of my struggle making this decision to be child free was. It's not primal to be child-free at all. It's not ancestral.

Speaker 1: 25:54

And what if my body needs me to go through that process of growing a baby and giving birth? What happens to my body if I never lactate? What happens to my body if I never stretch my diaphragm in my womb, grow something in my uterus? What happens if my hormones never go through that evolution dynamic changes that they do when they're growing a baby, Like what happens to my immune system as a result? What happens to my brain if I don't have the stimulation of teaching a child and watching them learn and grow, Like all of these other things that I'm thinking like? Am I impairing my biology by, I guess, withholding this opportunity from it? And that was tough, but talking to my husband about it continuously made me feel like it was going to be okay.

Speaker 1: 26:34

He's a very rational, analytical person and has an extremely different point of view on everything from me, so sometimes it can help me get out of my own way.

Speaker 2: 26:43

Were there any other, and I know that there's been this big movement around primal health. I think I've even heard of that book and that author. Is there anyone else in that community who is child-free, or is it something that just doesn't really present itself? I haven't even asked.

Speaker 2: 27:01

I'm just wondering if there's other people who can help you answer those questions. I've honestly never even thought about those questions Given. I think it's like one in four women perhaps now are either child-free by choice or circumstance. I'd be interested to see if there's anyone else who's active in that community but also making the same decisions.

Speaker 1: 27:22

Yeah, that would be really interesting to learn. I think I also look at it like part of the consequences of all these evolutionary mismatches is that we are seeing massive rates of infertility, and I was on birth control from the age of 13 to 29. And as soon as I stopped, you know I had the conversation with my husband about stopping for our marriage, and you know we didn't really change a thing, except I stopped birth control and I said I kept telling my mom, if God wants me to have a baby mom, it'll happen, and so I may be infertile, he may be infertile, I don't know. We use the pullout method, so it's not like it is as likely, but I know a lot of people have gotten pregnant with that, and so you would think over the years that it would have happened if it was meant to be, and I just kind of felt a little bit better not completely putting enforcing my decision on my biology.

Speaker 1: 28:11

I kind of like felt good, leaving it open-ended, like, if it happens, I doubt I would have an abortion. You know we would cross that bridge when we get there, but neither of us want that. I wouldn't want to get an abortion. I have no issue understanding why women do that, though, and I know some who have, and so I just kind of felt like I left it up to fate. I don't think I'm destined to have children. It doesn't feel like it's in my future. Now that I understand who I am and what my relationship is like and could potentially be like, I really do not see children being a role in that whatsoever, and it's not something that I long for.

Speaker 2: 28:46

That's very interesting and I want to say brave of you to stop the birth control. So, in line with this primal health topic, you're a coach, you have a podcast, you're very active in this space and seen by many as a expert in health and wellness. Do you market yourself specifically to women?

Speaker 1: 29:09

Yeah, I really love coaching all types of people coach men and women. I focused on groups of women for a while. Just marketing wise and group wise is easier when you choose in that way, because I needed them to know that this program was designed for them and I also needed them to know when we're on group coaching calls that they can be comfortable in the group of people that were there. But I love coaching men. It's so fun to coach men because they're simpler. Quite frankly, they're just a lot simpler. I'm sure we can understand what I mean by that.

Speaker 1: 29:39

But I don't want to only coach men. I don't prefer coaching men. I only sometimes might feel like I prefer it because I'm maybe dealing with some challenges that at the time it's a nice balance. It's like, oh, a little relief from like the depth of things that we have to get into as women. I also have a trans client. Like I literally do not care who I'm coaching. I don't really coach children and adolescents and some of my clients want me to, but just feel like it's a delicate situation to be talking about health and nutrition related topics with children and teens that I'm just not equipped for, not only because I'm not a parent, but just because I don't have enough that I've learned about that, I haven't tried, so I can't just say that what I'm describing for adults is appropriate for children.

Speaker 2: 30:21

So, other than that, Are you public with your choice about being child-free with your audience?

Speaker 1: 30:27

I usually don't express it like a choice. I just say I don't have any children, we don't have children or we're not having children or something just general like that. And almost no one has ever asked me for more information, probably because it's like sort of ill-mannered. It's considered ill-mannered to ask for more details about something like that because you never know if they struggle. I know you're like that's the whole theme of my podcast, Come on.

Speaker 2: 30:47

I feel like a lot of people yes, one, I'm out here just asking people for information, but I do feel like a lot of people have like strangers have strong opinions about the choice not to have children.

Speaker 1: 31:02

Maybe because they're strangers, because people who like you or know you or want to get closer to you will usually not ask any details because they don't know if you've had miscarriages, they don't know if you're doing and failing with IVF and infertility, they don't know if it's a massive strain in your relationships right now this topic and so that's why I think a lot of people try to avoid it like politics.

Speaker 2: 31:17

When I need to ask if I approach people to be on the podcast. For the most part it's pretty obvious that they're child-free by choice, but sometimes it's a very delicate dance that you have to do just to make sure Because, again, you don't know anyone's situation. I was going to see if you got any comments or questions or if anyone questioned this decision from your audience or your fan base. I know you have quite a few followers on Instagram, but it sounds like you've been really left to make your own decisions and to follow your own path.

Speaker 1: 31:47

Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out if it will ever affect me in my coaching relationships. I still have this lingering feeling that certain women won't want to work with me or misunderstand me because I don't have kids, especially if they knew. It was a choice and I don't know if that's just an insecurity of mine or if it's because it's inevitable and I just will never talk to those women about it because they will just not choose to work with me or they'll make up some other reason to stop working with me and ultimately it's because they can't relate to me because I didn't have kids. I don't know. I can think about certain people in my life who I could help, who I'm close with, that have never once asked me anything related to their health or their diet or their challenges, or even congratulated me or been present in my accomplishments, growing my health coaching practice. And sometimes I can't help but wonder is it because I don't have kids? So they feel like there's no way she could know how to help me.

Speaker 2: 32:43

It sounds like if no one's been questioning this so far, so it sounds like it's something that you are questioning in your head.

Speaker 1: 32:50

But who would Like, really, who would? Nobody would. I can't even picture somebody actually being forward about that.

Speaker 2: 32:56

And then, if they are, I think you have enough clients to be like, then this probably isn't the right fit, yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:02

I think I have this strange interest in helping women who have children, because I don't have them. I feel like they need a perspective that is dissimilar so that it can open up their minds to perspectives and ideas that they haven't had much access to, and I almost feel like a responsibility to do that. So when I see moms running themselves to the ground and putting their health last, sometimes those are the ones that I really want to help, because they've just been busy helping everybody else and thinking that they don't matter. It's just like spending the last decade or so getting to know their children, but not even a minute getting to know themselves. I don't know why. I find that to be intriguing and almost like something that I might be more skilled at to make a transformational impact, and I don't know if I'm getting as many opportunities to do that as I could.

Speaker 2: 33:53

Beyond the helping and learning to put yourself first and get to know yourself, what other perspectives have you found helpful that you can bring, as a child-free woman, to women who are struggling with their health? Also happen to have children?

Speaker 1: 34:09

I would say it's like 50% of them would feel helpless, hopeless, meaning they settle for their circumstances as if they are unchangeable. And it's ironic because they're seeing a coach to change their lives and change their bodies. But their attitude and automated response to a lot of things is I can't change that, it's just the way it is, it has to be this way and it's like no, it doesn't. And this is not how I talk to a client. I have to challenge them to see that their rigidity or complacency is resulting in their own self-limiting outcomes and they're, in turn, going to result in doing less of what they're capable of for their children, because ultimately, that's all they care about is their children. And so if I can help them connect the dots to how their own self-sabotage is resulting in consequential sabotage for their family or for their children's wellbeing, it is a very powerful insight that doesn't happen quickly Like this is something that needs to unfold and be revisited numerous times, maybe over the course of a year, where we have conversations that start to sound similar over and over and over again, to where the right interaction at the right time in the right circumstances, this woman wakes up to say like I can't believe I've been the one allowing this to happen to me or limiting myself from this. They have choices they just like. Imagine this woman is taking care of her two kids, has a strained relationship with her husband and took all the feminine roles in the household just by tradition, and then she also has a full-time job and then now one of their parents needs a caretaker, and so she's also that caretaker and that person lives in the house. Now they have another person to clean up after and to cook for, and the rest of the family doesn't even change anything that they're doing, because they're just like mom, mom, mom, do this, do that, do this all the things you've normally been doing for me. And the mom is just supposed to be okay and that's what she tells herself I'm fine, I'll survive, I'll be fine, it's okay, I just got to get through it. Or I don't have a choice, or what can I do? And what can I do is usually rhetorical if that's what they're asking, but those questions need to be asked and they need to be answered, no matter how difficult it is, because we really play the central role in designing our life.

Speaker 1: 36:24

But so many people suffer from so much stress and expectations that they lose themselves as the role of the creator and they feel powerless and they cause their own suffering. And it sounds like blaming to say that they're causing their own suffering, but they are not. It's their ego Like it's the you know the attachment they have to being a mother first. It's that story that is unhelpful in the long run. That needs to evolve with them. As the children grow and as they're suffering changes and as they realize new things about their circumstances. There needs to be opportunity or time to dig into that, observe and contemplate, to contemplate. How many moms don't have time to simply contemplate things?

Speaker 2: 37:06

That's sad and it must be really helpful to have probably a little difficult at first but then helpful to have this outside perspective helping them to understand and honestly, that was a big change in my life. It was just a few years ago shout out to the Handel method and the Handel coaching which, of course, the Handel method and Lauren Zander brought Marisa and I together. I do think we have that in common where I had to really come to grips with. I'm responsible for my life. I'm the one designing it. Also, that gives me the power to get out of whatever it is that I got myself into. So it's scary and humbling, took me a minute, but now I also think there's a lot of power in that and I can imagine how difficult it is to come to terms with that when you have many different life forms relying on you and asking for your time and your energy.

Speaker 2: 37:55

I thankfully didn't have that when I got to do this introspection, but I can imagine how powerful that is for them. So with that, would you just tell us for all the listeners. Do you want to talk a little bit? I know you have a new book, you have a podcast, I think you have a blog. There are a lot of ways to find you, so maybe give us a little bit of information around where to find you if anyone is interested in your expertise and your services. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 38:21

Well, just this February of 2024, I published my first book and it's called Not so Fast the Smarter, more Gradual Approach to Intermittent Fasting Benefits. That Last and Not so Fast is now an Amazon bestseller and a number one new release. Super happy to share that it's not on Audible yet. I'll be working on that this summer to get that published really soon. This book is the result of many years of coaching as an intermittent fasting coach, primarily as my specialty. Since 2018, I've described myself as an intermittent fasting coach, which Google search rewarded me with, allowing me the number one ranking since 2118. So anytime you're searching for fasting coach or intermittent fasting coach, my name is at the top, which is really amazing. It's helped me get to the point where I am right now.

Speaker 1: 39:07

I wrote this book because I've had a method that I teach the reset method for anyone to safely and comfortably start intermittent fasting and turn it into a long-term lifestyle. The reset method was the backbone of this book. I've taught it through groups and online programs for a long time and when you start coaching groups through something, you really start to see these patterns very boldly demonstrated for you to either solidify or cause you to adapt your method and fine tune it to get more of the results that you are supporting people for. So it was really time to put it all together in a book, especially because intermittent fasting was trending wildly and I kept thinking I'm running out of time, I have to hurry up and do this book. All the fasting books out there are really rigid, protocol-oriented or aggressive or sciencey, and I was like that's not what people need. We don't need more of that. What people need is a coach, and they need somebody who understands the uniqueness that is them as an individual.

Speaker 2: 40:02

Congrats on this book. I know it was a massive achievement. I think writing a book is difficult for anyone. I don't have ADHD and I don't know if I would be able to do it, so that is a huge, huge accomplishment. So exciting. I will make sure to link that book in the show notes. And you're also a coach. Are you open to clients? Where can people find you?

Speaker 1: 40:24

Yeah, please go to marisamooncom Marisa's like Marissa, but with one S and on my website you'll see there's a link to book 30-minute coaching calls with me for, at this time, only 65 US dollars. I really strive to keep health coaching affordable and those calls are impromptu so I don't have to do any work before or after, and so that's why I can keep the price really low and that's a good way for us to jive and see like is this a good match so you can set up some recurring coaching which is also affordable. So feel free to visit that and go to marisamooncom. Slash iffreedom if you want to download the reset manual, which is a 26 page guide to learn the method behind the book. Of course you can find Not so Fast on Amazon and I'd really appreciate your support. I'm sure you'd love it. There's a hundred and something five-star reviews. I just can't believe it. It's such a surreal experience.

Speaker 2: 41:13

Yeah, that's so exciting and I really understand what goes into putting something out there. I put something out there every week, and so it's a brave thing to do.

Speaker 1: 41:21

Kudos to you for such a really neat concept and making it work, even though you have a full-time job and I'm sure you're meeting a lot of cool people just by doing this and it's only going to get better from there. I'm happy to be part of it Well.

Speaker 2: 41:34

I appreciate it. Thank you, I'm sorry for the technology issues, but we got through it. It was so fun to meet you, yeah, and I hope you have a great evening. Thanks you too, laura, and that is it for today. Thank you for joining me. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, or please consider leaving a review wherever you get your podcasts, and I'll see you next week.